F4F | Hillsong's New Pastors Phil & Lucinda Dooley

Hillsong, Brian Houston’s Legal Trouble, and the New Dooley Leadership

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith. My name is Chris Rosebro. I am your servant in Jesus Christ. This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God.

So have you heard the news? Well, Brian Houston of Hillsong, the Hillsong movement, the Hillsong denomination. That's kind of what they are. He's been, well, sat down. It sounds like he did it voluntarily, but there was a lot of pressure on him by the board of directors and legal counsel.

He's in a bit of hot water legally. He's facing criminal charges for failing to report his father's pedophile activity. Yeah, we'll talk about that. But as a result of it, there has been a changing of faces, if you would, at Hillsong.

That means that Brian and Bobby Houston are out for the moment, and reality is they may not come back. And the new head pastors.

Of Hillsong,.

Well, the Dooleys. We'll talk about the Dooleys here in a minute, Lucinda and her husband, and this gives us an important opportunity. The best way I can put it is that so much of evangelicalism is built on the concept of a cult of personality.

And Brian Houston is somebody that I have been critiquing.

Biblically.

For more than a decade. Yeah, go back into the archives of our podcast and Brian Houston made regular appearances, frequent regular appearances, and we would review his sermons, and the guy was incapable of rightly handling a biblical text, showing that he's not qualified to be a pastor.

In order to be a pastor, you have to be able to study, show yourself approved as a workman who need not blush with embarrassment, who rightly can divide the word of truth. Brian Houston cannot. In fact, my argument would be is that he is he doesn't care to rightly handle biblical text because he's been all about scratching ears.

If you were to think of an analogy here, the worldliness of Hillsong as a movement, as a church, the only thing I can compare it to, and this is a valid comparison, is if you remember the story of Pinocchio.

Yeah, Pinocchio. Remember Pleasure Island? Yeah, and that's the place where all the bad kids went and thinking that, oh man, that this was the best place ever where they can just get away with being bad and, you know, but they ended up in the salt mines.

Yeah, it turned into donkeys. See, that's what Hillsong is. Hillsong is the devil's version of Pleasure Island. You show up there and next thing you know, all the dollars are vacuumed out of your wallet because, you know, Hillsong's all about the money.

And you sit there and go, oh, this is the best thing ever. I mean, what kind of Christianity is this where I can be worldly? I don't have to hear about repentance or the forgiveness of sins or holiness or anything like that.

And instead, you know, every week it's a rock concert, the babes are hot, and oh, man, it's a good place to get a date. Yeah, yeah, that's, see, this is, Hillsong has always been, from its beginning, it has always been Pleasure Island.

And those who buy into what's being sold there, they are endangering their eternal souls. And so with the turning over of the guard, at least for right now, again, the Houstons may not be coming back.

With the turning over of the guard, the changing of the face, this gives us a unique opportunity. And that is because the people who've taken over just don't have the decades long cult of personality, hip thing going for them that Brian and Bobby Houston had.

Yeah, people are at this moment, they have an opportunity because they're going to be a little bit more reticent, a little bit more critical. And so you get the idea. So let's do this. Let's whirl up the desktop and I'm going to pull up my web browser.

And so this is from just nine days ago. New faces of Hillsong, new faces of Hillsong. It's been Hillsong's shining star since day one. But after years of scandals, Brian Houston is stepping into the shadows.

Brian Houston's stepping down. All right. And so and who's been anointed to steer the celebrity church? Phil and Lucinda Dooley, the Hooley Dooleys, the husband and wife team who are the new faces of Hillsong.

And and so the couple served as youth pastors in Sydney, left for South Africa in 2008, where the senior global pastor curated a signature appearance. And so these are the people who are now the face of Hillsong, the flagship church there in Sydney, Phil and Lucinda Dooley.

OK, and I would I've said it and I'll keep saying it. There's there's a really good chance that Brian Houston ain't coming back. In fact, we'll put a link to this video down below. And the name of the video is Will Brian Houston from Hillsong go to jail?

Question mark. If he does, this might be why. And so if you're not sure why, why would Brian Houston be going to prison? This video explains it, because here's the thing, is that he was required by Australian law to report his father's pedophile activity to the police.

And he didn't. He didn't. He failed to report it. And and then he lied about it. At least it appears that he lied about it when he was before the Royal Commission a few years back. And so this video does a pretty good job of documenting the inconsistencies and what may potentially be legally damning statements on his part, pretty much the effect of admitting that he didn't follow the law that he was required to follow.

And so that's why he's on trial. So like I said, we'll put a link down to this video below. But that being the case, Phil and Lucinda Dooley are now the visible teaching pair who's going to be pastoring the Hillsong flagship church there in Sydney.

And here's the thing. They can't. They don't know what the Bible's about. They are Bible twisters. And it shows really badly. So we'll do some sampling, if you would. Let's sample some of their preaching.

So first up, a portion from a sermon delivered in May of 2020 titled The Faith Fight by Phil and Lucinda Dooley.

Here we go.

Numbers 13, the Promised Land, and Scripture Interpreting Scripture

Hey, well, we're so excited to be bringing the word today together.

Together.

But here's the thing.

Scripture is very clear that women cannot be pastors. A woman is not to exercise authority over men. I'm just going to just bump this up in speed just a little because I want to cover a little bit more ground than than normal.

But let's keep going.

And we're going to be looking at Numbers 13. We're going to be considering the story of the 12 spies, the promised land, and how we got to fight for the promises that God has for our lives.

And here's a big error. OK, so Numbers 13 isn't about us fighting for our quote unquote promised land as if somehow God has made promises to you, maybe to make your business successful or something. Like this scripture actually interprets scripture.

So one of the major rules we use for use for understanding what the Bible means is we use the three standard rules for biblical exegesis, which are context and context and then context. But closely related to it is the concept that scripture interprets scripture.

So before they get too far, let's take a look at Numbers 13. Y 'all familiar with this passage, 12 spies went to spy on Canaan, 10 were bad and two were good. What did they see when they spied on Canaan?

10 were bad and two were good. Some saw giants big and tall. Some saw grapes and clusters fall. Some saw God rule over all. 10 were bad and two were good. Well, here's what Numbers 13 says. Yahweh spoke to Moses saying, send men to spy out the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel from each tribe of their fathers.

You shall send a man, every one chief among them. So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran, according to the command of Yahweh, all of all of them men who were heads of their people of Israel. Oh, no, patriarchy.

Ah, yeah. And the tribe of Reuben, Shamuah, the son of Zakkur from the tribe of Simeon, Shafat, the son of Hori from the tribe of Judah, Caleb, the son of Jephunneh from the tribe of Issachar, Egal, the son of Joseph from the tribe of Ephraim, Hosea, the son of Nun from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti, the son of Raphu from the tribe of Zebulun, Gadiel, the son of Sodhi from the tribe of Joseph, that is from the tribe of Manasseh, Gadi, the son of Susi from the tribe of Dan, Amiel, the son of Gamaliel from the tribe of Asher, Sethur, the son of Mikael from the tribe of Naphtali, Nachbi, the son of Vapshi from the tribe of Gad, Guell, the son of Machi from these were the names of the men who Moses sent to spy out the land and Moses called Hosea, the son of Nun, Joshua, Yeshua, uh-huh, yeah, same name as Jesus, Yahweh saves.

So Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan and said to them, go up to the, into the Negev, go up into the hill country and see what the land is and whether the people who dwell in it are strong or are weak, whether there are a few or many, whether the land that they dwell in is good or bad, and whether the cities that they dwell in are in camps or in strongholds, and whether the land is rich or poor, and whether there are trees in it or not, be of good courage and bring some of the fruit of the land.

Now the time was the season of the first ripe grapes. All right, so they went up and spied out the land from the wilderness of Zin to Rehob near Lebo Hamath, and they went up into the Negev and came to Hebron, Ahaman, Sheshai, Talmai, descendants of Anak were there, Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt, and they came to the valley of Eshkol and cut down from their branch with a single cluster of grapes, carried it on a pole between two of them.

They also brought some of the pomegranates and figs that, and that place was called the valley of Eshkol because of the cluster that the people of Israel cut down from there. At the end of 40 days, they returned from spying out the land and they came to Moses and Aaron and all the congregation of the people of Israel in the wilderness of Paranat Kadesh, and they brought back word to them, and all the congregation showed them the fruit of the land, and they told him, we came to the land to which you sent us, it flows with milk and honey, this is its fruit.

However, the people who dwell in the land are strong and the cities are fortified very large, and besides, we saw the descendants of Anak there, the Amalekites dwell in the land of the Negev, the Hittites, the Jebusites, the Amorites dwell in the hill country, and the Canaanites dwell by the sea along the Jordan.

But Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said, let us go at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it. Then the men who had gone up with him said, we are not able to go up against the people, they are stronger than we are.

So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying the land through which we have gone to spy it out is a land that devours its inhabitants. All the people that we saw it are of great height, and there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak who came from the Nephilim, and we seemed ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.

And then all the congregation raised a loud cry, and the people wept that night, and all the people of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron. The whole congregation said to them, oh, would that we had died in the land of Egypt, or would that we had died in this wilderness?

Why is Yahweh bringing us into this land to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will become a prey. Oh, would it not be better for us to go back to Egypt? And they said to one another, let us choose a leader and go back to Egypt.

And then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation and the people of Israel. And Joshua, the son of Nun, and Cable, the son of Jephunneh, who were among those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes and said to all the congregation of the people of Israel, the land which we pass through to spy it out is an exceedingly good land.

If Yahweh delights in us, he will bring us into this land and give it to us, a land that flows with milk and honey. And here's the distinction. Joshua and Caleb trust the Lord. They know full well God is giving them the land, which means God is going to fight for them.

And all the other people, you know what they're missing? Faith. They don't trust the Lord. They don't trust Yahweh. And as a result of this lack of trust, this lack of faith, they are casting aspersions on God, slandering him, accusing him of malicious, murderous intent, bringing him into the wilderness for the purpose of killing them and their children.

They have no faith, and that's the difference. You either trust Christ and his promises, you trust the Lord and his promises, and the ones found in Scripture, or you don't. And that's the idea here. So only don't rebel against Yahweh.

Do not fear the people of the land. They are bred for us. Their protection is removed from them. Yahweh is with us. Don't fear them. Then all the congregation said to stone them with stones. But the glory of Yahweh appeared at the tent of meeting to all the people of Israel.

And Yahweh said to Moses, how long will this people despise me? How long will they not believe in me? In spite of all the signs I've done among them, I'll strike them with pestilence and disinherit them.

And I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they. But Moses said to Yahweh, then the Egyptians will hear of it. For you brought up this people in your might from among them, and they will tell the inhabitants of this land.

Now, if you read the rest of the story, you can see what happens. All those who didn't believe, they don't get to go into the land at all. Children of Israel are going to wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

And Joshua and Caleb, they get to go in. Because they believed, they trusted God, and that's the point. Now, here's what a scripture interprets scripture. What does it all mean? Well, we know from the New Testament that in the Old Testament, the stories are types and shadows.

And they have a connection back to Christ. And they have a connection to promises that relate to us in the New Covenant. And this is where we will do wise to pay attention to something like Hebrews chapter 11.

In Hebrews chapter 11, it explains very clearly what the promised land is, what it represents, how to understand it. And it doesn't represent some dream destiny or some promise that you're supposed to hear from God.

And then by believing, it'll happen in your life in the here and the now. Your purpose, your destiny, a successful business, divine health or wealth or weird things like that. No, it's not at all. So, know what it says here, starting at Hebrews 11 verse 8.

By faith, Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. He went out not knowing where he was going. And by faith, he went to live in the land of promise as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with them of the same promise.

For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

Hmm.

Abraham was looking for that. Well, I seem to remember something about that. Hang on a second here. Maybe like Revelation.

Let's see here.

Yeah, here we go. Revelation 21. Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had passed away. The sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

Death shall be no more. Neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore. The former things have passed away.

Okay.

So that being the case, Abraham was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. He's looking for the eternal inheritance, the real promised land. Do you think the promised land is a place here under this curse creation?

It's not because every one of us dies. The land of promise that I have as a Christian, the one that you have if you're a Christian, is the new earth. That's what the type and shadow of the Old Testament promised land always points to.

The new earth, the promises we have in Christ of eternal life in a world without end.

All right.

So by faith Sarah herself received power to conceive.

Yeah.

And I'll keep reading here. Power to conceive even when she was past the age since she considered him faithful who had promised. Therefore from one man and him as good as dead were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand on the seashore.

All these, these all died in faith, not having received the things promised. Say what? That's right. They didn't get them. They didn't receive them because the things promised were still coming. They still are still coming.

But having seen them and greeted them from afar, having acknowledged they were strangers and they were exiles on the earth. So are you and I. For people who speak thus make it clear. They're seeking a homeland.

If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country. That is a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God.

He has prepared for them a city.

Oh.

Oh.

So the promised land of the Old Testament is a type in shadow pointing to what? The new earth. Scripture interprets scripture. So all of that being said, the hoolie doolies here. Yeah, we're off to a really bad start because they think the promised land has to do with some promise that God's going to give you regarding your purpose of your destiny or some dream thingy.

They're well catechized in the false doctrines of Hillsong. But they don't know how to handle a biblical text correctly.

Build faith into our hearts. I'm excited about it. Why don't we pray?

Amen.

Let's pray together. Father, we thank You for Your Word. And Lord, we pray tonight, Father, that this message, Lord, that You would use it to impact the hearts and the minds of every single listener tonight, Father.

Take this message, Father, and accomplish everything that You've intended. In Jesus' Name we pray. And everybody said together.

Amen. Amen.

Be blessed by the Word.

Yes.

Well, I'm going to start. So high five. And then my wife is going to speak into the second part of this message. So here's the thing. In Numbers 13, we read about Moses. Moses is the guy who's in charge of the people of Israel.

And Moses is all about leading the people into the Promised Land. He has led them out of Egypt where they were under oppression, where life was tough and it was difficult. And he and Aaron had to keep going to Pharaoh.

Finally, Pharaoh lets them go. And they end up going through, you know, you may know the story, through the Red Sea. They go through this. And as they're going through it, God miraculously opens it up.

The Egyptians with Pharaoh are fired up. They don't want them to leave. And so they go through the sea.

Are you too busy to actually read the biblical text? That's always the thing with these guys. You think you're hearing what the Bible says, but you don't because they're not reading it.

As they go through it, the waves close, the water closes in on them. And Moses and God's people escape. Now, you would think they go straight into the promise, but they don't.

Notice that you would think they go straight into the promise. So what he thinks the Bible is, is a collection of little short stories, little vignettes of people who God gave a promise to, or God gave a destiny or a purpose to, and the struggles they had in faith to see that promise come about.

And so you just need to follow their pattern so that you too can experience the promise that God has laid on your heart. The way he's laid it on. This is a totally narcissistic and false way of reading the Bible.

God takes them on a journey through the wilderness. And this is what happens in our lives as well. Often we come out of how we were living, out of the oppression, out of the overwhelming power of sin.

And we know God has this promise for our lives. We know that.

What promise? I have the promise of the forgiveness of my sins and an inheritance in the new world, the new earth. When Jesus returns and I'm resurrected from the dead. What promises are you talking about, Phil?

There is more he has for us, but there's this journey that he takes us through. God is all about dealing with us in the journey on the way to the promise. Often we live our lives where we just want to go to the destination, don't we?

We put in our Google Maps or we use our phone and we're like, okay, here's where I want to go. Get me there the fastest, get me there.

So you're going to know, you buy into this false teaching. You're going to think, okay, God's going to give me a promise. I've got to learn how to hear the voice of God. And God's going to say, I want you to be a dentist.

And so now it's the journey of faith on your way to becoming a dentist. Scripture interprets scripture. We know what the promised land represents in the Old Testament. It represents the promise of the new earth, life eternal in the world to come.

Get me there without traffic, get me there without whatever might come in my way. Show me where the speed cameras are. I just want to get there as quick as I can. But God is as interested in the journey of our lives as he is in where he is taking us to.

Which biblical text is he preaching from again? He ain't preaching from Numbers 13. We read 13 and part of 14. He's making this up. This is a doctrine that is not found in scripture. But he's doing his best to make it appear like it's found in the Bible.

He's the new head teaching pastor. He and his wife, Lucinda, are the new head teaching pastors of Hillsong. Run.

And we've got to learn this. And that requires patience. That requires courage. That requires us opening our hearts to God. I love this statement. Let the journey make you so. The destination doesn't break you.

Did you read that in a fortune cookie? Because that's not even one of the Proverbs. And that's not what Numbers 13 is about.

There are times in life where we want to get to the destination. But we've got to grow into the person who can handle the promise that God has for us. Well, let's fast forward.

What promise does God have for us again?

Do you like that?

No, it was annoying.

Fast forward to the point now where Moses and God's people, the Israelites, are ready to head into the promised land. They are right there. It is before them. They have wandered through the wilderness for 40 years.

But while they've been in the wilderness, God's looked after them. They've had a cloud to follow in the day. Then there was fire in the cloud at night. And they'd follow that. And God would take them where he would.

And they learned to be obedient to him. And God provided manna from heaven. Every day, God gave them food. So they didn't have to look after themselves really at all. They just followed the cloud to go where they needed to go.

And they got manna to eat. And they were fine. Now, it's time to move into the promise. Now is time to move into this next phase, this exciting adventure.

Yeah, the conquest of Canaan is a type and shadow of the end of the world and Christians inheriting the new earth. Just read Hebrews. It's pretty simple, you know.

That God has for them. And Moses says in Numbers 13, let's get 12 together representing the tribes of Israel. Let's go and check the promised land out. So they do that. Here's the issue. When they come back, we read about a whole lot of them being, in fact, 10 of them being freaked out, overwhelmed.

Yes, they say it's wonderful.

Right, God says they don't trust him. They don't believe in him.

But they also say, man, these people are giants. There is no way we can defeat them. In fact, this is what it says about this promised land and about where God's taking them into it. We read these spies saying, we went into the land which you sent out.

And yes, it does flow with milk and honey. And here is its fruit. But, you got to be careful when there's a but. Why is the but there? What's the but all about? But the people who live there are powerful and the cities are fortified and very large.

We saw the descendants of Anak there and they go on and on and on and talk about all the reasons why they can't enter the promised land.

And scripture interprets scripture. And we know from the book of Hebrews chapter 11 what the promised land is really pointing us to. The promise that we all have. Old Testament believers and New Testament believers.

A city whose builder and foundation is God. Right? Talking about the earth to come.

They would rather get the backpack, put it on. Turn around and go back into the wilderness. Go back where it's comfortable. I got a nice lounge over there. Maybe I'll just sit there. Maybe I'll just enjoy the comfort of the lounge.

Maybe I'll just stay in a place where I don't.

Now, important to note that Phil and Lucinda Dooley are the products of Hillsong. Their understanding of the scripture was given to them by Brian and Bobby Houston, which shows. They have no clue how to rightly handle a biblical text.

It shows.

You have to fight because this enemy looks big. This enemy looks difficult. This is a challenge. And as much as the promise looks great, the milk and the honey and all that's there looks amazing. There's giants.

I don't want to deal with giants. I mean, how many times have we seen something that we go, man, God is stirring that in my heart. But it's difficult. It's hard. That's going to require a fight. I don't know if I have that kind of fight in me.

In fact.

So, no, the giants are an allegory of difficulties in your life as you're heading to the fulfillment of some promise that God laid on your heart.

There's four things I want us to consider as we look at this today. And then my wife's going to come. Lucinda's going to come. She's going to finish this message for us. Four things for us to consider that I've seen.

Okay.

Two of these two of these spies are Joshua and Caleb. They enter into the promise. The other 10 we never hear of. Here's the first thought. Don't get so comfortable in the wilderness that you forget how to fight for the promise.

What's the wilderness? When you put the pieces together biblically, the wilderness is this life. We're heading towards the promised land. New heavens, new earth.

I've found that in life we can get so comfortable where we are that we lose sight or we get so caught up in the complacency of where we are that we don't have the fight to pursue the promise.

What's the promise again, Phil? Could you show me a biblical passage that explains what the promise is? Because I just did. What you're doing with the concept of the promised land here is doing violence to what the scripture says it is.

Silencing the Wrong Voices and Making the Right Choices

Yeah, his wife isn't any better. So let's check in with Lucinda's portion of this sermon. Shall we?

Well, church, how amazing was that? I absolutely love those points. And I want to encourage you to take them into your week and let them really be a blessing to you.

Okay.

Now I'm going to pick the story up in Numbers chapter 13 and verse 28. And it says this, but Caleb, everyone say, but Caleb.

Everyone say, yeah, that's a manipulation.

But Caleb tried to quiet the people as they stood before Moses. Let's go at once and take the land, he said. We can certainly conquer it. I love this verse. And there's two things happening in this verse.

Number one thing that's happening is Caleb had to silence the wrong voices. And the number two thing that's happening is Caleb had to make the right choices.

So are you silencing the wrong voices so that you can achieve your promised land? And are you making the right choices so that you can experience your promised land? And what is that promised land? Well, it could be anything.

And do you know, I think Caleb was onto something here. I think he realized if he doesn't silence the wrong voices, he won't be able to step into everything that God has for him.

If he doesn't silence the wrong voices, he won't be able to step into everything that God has for him. This is an example of scratching itching ears, telling people what they want to hear. This is not what Numbers 13 is about at all.

That's not what the promised land is pointing us to.

And do you know what? Exactly the same for you and I. I believe if we can resolve to listen to the right voices, we will be able to step into all that God has got for us.

All right. Biblical text worth reviewing in this regard. 2 Timothy chapter 4. And sadly, Lucinda here is teaching a myth that somehow Numbers 13 is all about learning how to silence the wrong voices and make the right choices so that you can step into all that God has for you.

You know, a life of influence, of power, of purpose and destiny. Now, that's not what this text is about.