Credobaptism

All right, I am live so

Haps had a call out tonight and Brayden is Running late.

I repeat Haps had to call out tonight and Brayden

is running late.

So you got to put up with me for about?

Ten minutes by yourself.

I know that's that's gonna be tough to do But please Bear with me.

It doesn't look like there's anyone on at the moment.

So I will probably Be repeating this.

But Haps had to call out and Brayden is it will be here in about 10 minutes.

They're slacking and they're podcasting you know like it like it takes

a It takes a soldier, you know, I'm saying to to be on time and as

we see Pastor Haps and Pastor Brayden are not soldiers, right?

Right there, you know that they're working on it.

So be praying for them.

No, perhaps had something come up at his house where he pastors he ministers that he had a he had to

be there and and Brayden had something at work that he had to go and Check on but he should

be on his way home.

Now.

He told me he should be With me ten minutes after the hour so whatever

hour you're in like for me right now, it's nine o 'clock.

So.

In ten minutes nine ten Brayden should be jumping on.

So I'm not really going to get into the subject right now.

But I do want to talk about the new ventures that we're on as you can see.

The beard is looking good we started a a

Beard company a beard oil company.

Call her a post tender breast Luxe beard care.

I mean, you know because of the Bibles that I do.

For those that don't know I rebind Bibles for a living post tender breast Luxe Bible rebonding

and so and.

And I got a fairly nice beard and I've always wanted to Have a beard oil company.

Why because there was a time where I couldn't grow a beard.

Right, and then I got into beard oils, you know, I was real patchy.

I just started putting oils on my face and the hair started to grow and so I'm a true believer and

beard oil and beard products and Ever since I started using them.

I've been fascinated by it and and just wanted to Immediately start a company.

This is something that I've been pushing my wife for for a long time.

Well right now I have on the purest it's it's a Geneva somewhere

in Geneva right now in Geneva is a scent free oil,

so it's There's no there's no smell to it.

It's for the purest and and but the other oils we will produce we will be

producing will have Scents so we so in our city line, which

Geneva is there's going to be like Edinburgh and and just like

popular cities that were known I mean that you know that that has something to do

with the Reformation and then in our study line, which is One that I'm really

excited about you'll have You know oil that smells like pipe weed

which I'm really excited about that one there's going to be some that smells like bourbon.

Leather like I need to smell like leather.

It's quite often when I hug someone they'll say man you smell just like leather

and I'm like well It's because I work with leather, right?

So, you know, of course, I smell like leather my my shop right here when you walk into my house

that the first thing that you enter is my shop and it's just leather everywhere

and so so we have the Bible business and We're getting into the beard

oil business my plan I don't know if I've stated this but my plan is to start five

different businesses.

Hopefully three will work out.

Wonderfully, but to start five different businesses.

I want to be able to provide jobs, right.

I want to be able to provide income for people and so

My heart has always been for that and and so I am an entrepreneur at heart.

I am a dreamer.

I'm a shaker.

I'm a mover and So and I I have the

drive to To start things and see them

To completion and so because of that I feel like God has put me in a position to

start businesses and Then to turn them over that was the plan for the leather business and I had

many people many people Wanted to learn how to do Bible rebinding many people

wanted to Come and work for me learn the craft, but when they find out that I

work 45 hours a week.

Mmm, not many people want to do that, so I Had some

a couple of guys travel with me to a g3 conference once and they saw

The popularity that my booth had we was probably the most popular booth that year

and you know.

And it was like man we I'm Speaking for them quote, man.

I really really want to do what you do for a living.

And so I offered to train them to work with me.

I think they showed up two days and You know, they didn't show up anymore.

So, you know a lot of people Want the glory, but they don't want to put in

the hard work and so it doesn't look like there's going to be anyone to take

over the Bible rebinding business, but You know, I still

have high hopes of training someone To to help me out.

But we did.

Okay, he's getting on now I think but we did my nephew so Some of

y 'all might know that I've taken my nephew in and he's living with me and he's been doing some stitching

for me.

So he's been doing the the stitching the hand stitching on the Bibles and hopefully he'll be doing a lot more

and he will be also Helping out with the beard oil.

He's 16 He needs a good summer job and after after school

work, so His name is Elijah Rice recently baptized.

I had the privilege of baptizing him and Speaking of that we're going to be talking about

baptism tonight.

We're going to be looking at it Crito baptism

Baptists baptism right.

Hallelujah Hallaback and so Brayden

Just text me and said that he's about to jump on.

And I'll try to quit rambling about my new adventure.

But again, I'm wearing Geneva right now.

And if you have a beard you need to holler at me you need to you know

Reform your beard and and be a part of the beard Reformation and If you

don't have a beard, but you know someone that does have a beard Send them to our page like our

page.

We're giving a real good deal right now.

You know, it's kind of like in Kickstarter mode there's a lot of things that we have to Purchase to get this thing

up to get this running well Again, we're already Producing the

oil as you can see again.

I'm wearing Geneva.

Geneva doesn't have a scent.

It's for the purest.

I.

Hopefully by the next time that I'm podcasting I'll be wearing a pipe weed or

Edinburgh or something like that.

And here comes Brayden.

What's up, brother?

What's going on?

My man?

Let me.

I didn't have time to get this all adjusted.

I.

Went ahead and started.

Whenever the time was.

I didn't get anything to mess up.

No, I was just talking about the beard oil company and I'm waiting for someone to

send me a recipe on mustache wax.

I had a good friend told me that he was gonna do it do that and.

You know just never went through with it.

Oh, man.

I need to do it.

I'm gonna send it to you now.

Yeah.

Yeah, so right now I'm wearing Geneva.

It's the.

It's the non scented oil or the purest and like.

It feels so good, man, you're tempting me right now.

I wish I could I wish I could do this right now.

I don't know if you can.

Yeah, I can't do that.

Yeah.

No, but you can I can do that guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so I was just telling them that Introducing my

nephew Elijah Who has been stitching Bibles for us and how I recently had the

privilege of baptizing him as a believer, okay.

Usher in our.

Conversation.

Ah, so you didn't you didn't baptize him before he was believing.

No.

Strange, well, actually whenever he came to me his mom had him baptized and

you know a long time ago and Of course as a Baptist I didn't accept it because

he you know, he didn't know the gospel he didn't know anything.

So yeah.

He said under teaching biblical teaching.

Mm -hmm, and then he came to me and wanted to be baptized.

He was a believer.

That's wonderful here.

Praise God.

Yeah, so before we get started again, my name is Jeff rice.

I am one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church.

And I am I also have a YouTube channel and and you'll find this video on

that YouTube channel.

It's tall it's called my two cents since with a Z my two cents with Jeff rice and

I am One of the owners of post tenderbrush Lux Bible rebinding and also post

tenderbrush Lux beard care.

I.

Pass it over to my good brother Brayden.

Yeah, I'm pastor Brayden Patterson from Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho.

I am XLDS.

I have a YouTube channel called reformed ex -mormon where we just do different things like evangelism or we're just short

topic teachings on there and so I'd love for you to come check out that YouTube channel and

It's just a blessing to be on here with on open -air theology, but with brother Jeff and unfortunately We don't have

haps here tonight, but it's a blessing to be on with house whenever he can and looking super forward to tonight's

discussion on on credo baptism and and just I'm hoping

that we'll talk about it and they're with covenantal theology and just coming with it with this Kind of mind

frame that reformed Baptists have and so I'm looking forward to tonight's discussion.

Yeah, absolutely.

So Before we jumped on he called me and he would you know.

Because I was probably about to pull the plug if no one else was going to show up.

I didn't want to have this conversation alone alone and and I was like, you know, I'm very curious

on because like.

You know before we get on we don't have these conversations with each other.

So, you know, I don't know if he hodes to something different than myself.

So very curious of you know getting on here.

I'm.

Finding out the ins and outs of what you believe about it.

I believe about it because like the opinions differ even amongst reformed Baptists on

You know a little like variation of things like I'm pretty set in my ways when it comes to baptism.

Mm -hmm, and you know if you don't believe like I do, you know, you got a problem.

But me and you like like we always you know, like there's little things about.

About.

You know Theology that we disagree about and yeah, and we can have that conversation

and we know there's no animosity.

Oh, absolutely not right.

Absolutely not.

Yeah.

So I was looking forward to having this conversation with you.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure we do agree.

Yeah, at least 99 %.

Mm -hmm.

So.

I'll let you.

Take it away if you want to.

Yeah, so I'm trying to think of a good way of Jumping into to baptism.

So you want to come at it from a covenant?

Perspective.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I was thinking maybe just starting out with reading the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith stuff on there.

Because it's not.

I got it right here.

Perfect.

I got it right here, too.

You mind if I just read it real fast for us?

So just in chapter 29 it says.

On baptism it says baptism is the ordinance or isn't an ordinance of the New Testament ordained by

Jesus Christ to baptize those to those baptized as a sign of their fellowship with

him in his death and resurrection or they're being grafted into him of

remission of sins and of submitting themselves to God through Jesus Christ to live and walk in

Newness of life.

Those who professionally or personally not excuse me personally profess repentance towards

God and Faith in and obedience to our Lord Jesus Christ are the only proper

subjects of this ordinance.

The outward element to be used in this ordinance is water in which the Individual is to be

baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Immersion or dipping of the person in water is necessary for this ordinance to be administered

properly.

So just kind of coming at this from from a Baptist covenantal mind frame is

really where I think we're gonna do a lot of discussion is the difference between the the

pedo Presbyterian thought on baptism comparing it to the profession of faith

prior to baptism really just jumping into infant baptism versus non -infant

or non -infant baptism and a lot of it comes from the understanding of how

a The Abrahamic Covenant is supposed to work.

What implications it has for us today?

What was taking place back then and so if I was just to get going to give a short summary on these kind of

things.

Is that I don't see the Abrahamic Covenant of being that of a covenant of grace or an administration of it.

It's a covenant of works.

That was for a physical ethnic people the ethnic Jew, which I am NOT ethnically Jew

and it was the the the way that you were to be circumcised was first through being

born of Abraham.

How to be born first and then take the sign.

Exactly.

So born first then take the sign and so when I go to the New Testament and I see.

The.

Idea that the Presbyterian will take from that is.

Since that was an administration usually of the Covenant of Grace is where they're coming from.

They go to the New Testament and they say okay.

Well.

If you're born of the family of a believer, you should then take the sign of

believers where I say That Abraham you were a descendant of Abraham.

You were physically born to Abraham.

You were circumcised.

I see that in the New Covenant the Covenant of Grace.

It's once you were born again.

You then take the sign?

Believe that the sign is baptism, correct?

Yes.

Yep.

All right.

There's a lot of Reformed Baptists, even though our confession says it's the sign will still say that it's

not the sign.

But that circumcision of the heart is the sign.

Mm.

No.

Yeah, and I'm like no that's the birth.

That is the being born.

Yeah, yeah, and so they kind of fall into the same mistakes as Presbyterian when they do that.

Yeah, which I'm happy.

I'm happy that we talked about this right as soon as I jumped on.

I'm sorry I wasn't here earlier to have a little bit of conversation with you.

But you what people are seeing here live is a conversation that you and I have not had.

Yeah, we've had this conversation.

This is a conclusion that Jeff has come to on his own and a conclusion I have come to on my own.

I was ready to debate you.

Oh, man.

I was so excited.

I'm sad.

Maybe I I guess I guess I can't even act like I believe the other way because it's just so so far.

I know I just don't I just don't agree with it at all.

I think one is totally physical where the other one's spiritual and that's very Nicodemus because when you look at

Abraham, the the the ethnic Jew was being born in a kingdom.

This kingdom type situation with being in Israel, right.

And they were to be this covenant type of people.

Well, what is Nicodemus's question to Jesus about how one gains entrance into

our kingdom?

One must be born again.

Yeah, and you know the sign of being able to be in the Abrahamic.

Covenant and that kingdom was of circumcision.

So yes.

Yes.

So you have Nicodemus who is a who is a Jew who had been born

into the old covenant and had received the The sign of the old covenant

which was circumcision.

Jesus is telling him that unless you're born again, you cannot see

with your eyes.

And right here listen theonomies people The kingdom of God meaning that the kingdom

of God is not physical.

It's physical people, but it's a spiritual kingdom.

All right, and also I know I'm throwing jabs.

Yeah, and also it says unless you're born again, you cannot enter.

And so like it has to do with with your forensic transaction in your ethical transformation in which

we'll probably get to that.

Yeah, but but but the whole point is is two things happen in being born again.

Well, you know first the circumcision of the of the heart takes place and that's regeneration.

That's Ezekiel chapter 36.

That's what.

Excuse me.

That is what we were talking about when we spoke about regeneration proceeding faith.

All right being born again is God Gracing you with a new birth and giving you

faith to believe if you do not have faith You cannot see the kingdom of God.

And so and so Jesus is telling him your first birth and your first In your

covenant sign does not count get you nowhere and notice

again.

When it comes to our our pedo brothers a pedo brother Tyree said

In order to receive the sign they had to be born into the covenant everyone who received the

sign Were born into the covenant the kingdom of

God.

And Jesus said unless you're born again You cannot see you cannot enter.

Which and when we go to the Abrahamic Covenant the purpose of of that covenant.

I I've been reading that mystery of the Christ book.

I was sending you a picture of early.

Oh, yeah.

It's a good look the I love one of the analogies in there is that as a reformed Baptist that what we're what we're

saying is Taking place in the Old Testament in the Old Covenant is that it's the pregnant woman.

Carrying the New Covenant the Old Covenant is the pregnant woman and the child that is

Christ in that sense is The New Covenant, that's what I have is the New Testament.

And so you will see that in these these different covenants that take place in the Old Old Testament

It has the child in it.

It has the promise.

It has the seed it has this future redemption.

But it is in and of itself.

It is not the Covenant of Grace.

Right.

It is not as if the the children of Abraham that were circumcised.

We're a part of the Covenant of Grace.

The Covenant of Grace is only those that have faith in the seed the promise

Jesus's death burial and resurrection a future thing for then a Past thing for us.

That's the Covenant of Grace a friend of mine.

Jacob just said love me the Abrahamic Covenant of Grace Jacob.

I know you're a Presbyterian brother and Love to have you on here to debate the issue, but you are wrong my friend.

If you look at If you look at at Genesis chapter 3 Verse 15.

This is where we come with the Covenant of Grace.

Genesis 3 15 it so so so our Covenant of Grace our promise of a gracious

covenant is a curse To the serpents.

So our gracious promise is a curse To the serpent it

says this is God speaking to the serpent.

I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and

her offspring.

He will bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.

So in this the Reformed Baptists and the Presbyterians alike will say that this is the Covenant of Grace.

Notice with me it gives a promise and a fulfillment.

Also notice that the promise and the fulfillment is not found in this text as being

right then and there it says that he is going to put enmity between

You speaking of the serpent and the woman?

Between your offspring and her offspring now, here it is.

Here's the promise.

He will bruise your head.

Now, here's the fulfillment and you shall bruise his heel.

Well, I'm sorry.

Here's the promise.

He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.

Here's the fulfillment.

He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.

The prompt.

The promise is given that someone that an offspring would come from the woman that would bruise him

that would bruise his head while only bruising his heel and we know when the Covenant of Grace comes because

the offspring will Bruise his heel while only will bruise his head while only bruising his heel.

Until the offspring comes to bruise the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.

There is no covenant of grace.

The Hebrews is clear about the death of the testator that covenant.

The Covenant of Grace cannot come until the the one who made the covenant

dies.

The new covenant is the Covenant of Grace.

All right.

I challenge any Presbyterian to show me in this verse verse 15 where the promise

and the fulfillment takes place here.

It gives the promise and the fulfillment when the offspring of the woman bruises the head of the

serpent while only bruising his heel.

Until that happens.

There is no covenant of grace.

Yeah and I love you brother, but Like I don't know what you see

you got a gun with no bullets.

Yeah, I man I I see well and even if you go to because that's truly the issue

of Infant baptism and Credo baptism is going to

be your understanding of Genesis 12 15 and 17 on how you understand The Abrahamic

Covenant and how it applies to Christ, right?

And so when I when I read the the Abrahamic Covenant this Covenant been made between God and

Abram.

What I see in this is that it talks about there's going to be a physical nation.

There's going to be physical nations Kings that are coming up through this and then it's through.

It's these physical things that it's through their obedience to that

covenant law.

Which was circumcision right now the purpose of this.

What was the purpose of this it was to Show where the Messiah was gonna come from he was gonna

come from this land it was to show that he was going to be a descendant of Abram and.

And further on down the line, we'll see Moses and and and David and all these kind of things take place but

that he was going to be this descendant and he was going to be the Fulfillment of that and that's where the everlasting

covenant was going to come from and so Abraham Wasn't saved because he was

circumcised he was reckoned righteousness before this.

How was he saved it was through?

His future seeds covenant his future seed.

That is Christ.

It was that he was now in his future seed Christ.

That is how he is saved.

Yeah, he was promised an offspring would come from him and after this offspring They would receive a land and bless

the nations.

Abraham believed believed what then an offspring would come from him.

They would that would receive a land and bless the nations and by believing that he was

Credited with righteousness you and I today we are saved the same way of Abraham.

I believe in order for Christianity to be true Christianity has to be owed.

The same way Abraham is saved is the same way I am saved.

It's the same way you have been saved is the same way if God tarries a million years from now.

They will be saved.

Right you have retroactivity retroactive and

Retrospectively I think it says.

The cross applies to the Oh covenant believers as well as the cross applies to you and I

who believe in that same promise that the offspring came.

He kept the covenant he kept the law so notice this with me.

Whenever the covenant was given to Abraham Abraham was told to walk blamelessly.

Mm -hmm.

All right, that's not a covenant of grace.

All right.

Do this and live?

Anytime.

Anytime where the Bible speaks of do this and live what you have.

There is our do this is law.

So anytime you have to do something to receive something that is law we see

that in the Abrahamic Covenant Mosaic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant.

Yes, Abraham had a walk before God blameless and circumcised the children that the

The male children Under the Mosaic law they had to keep

the law to live in the land.

We see that they did not keep the law and they were removed from the land.

The Davidic Covenant that someone had to sit on the throne.

It if they follow the Lord their God they would sit on the throne forever.

Right, but in order to sit on the throne as an everlasting covenant, they had to follow God.

We see that Solomon did not do it.

He he caved in to his 700 wives and started and started a you know

worshiping their God and and then the That curse fell upon his son

Rehoboam.

And you know and the kingdom was divided.

All right, Jesus comes all right, so so so the covenant of works God made a covenant

with Adam and it's.

And it's kind of said that if Adam would have kept the covenant He would have been able to eat from the tree of life and earn eternal

life for himself and his posterity.

Jesus comes keeps the covenant earns eternal life for you and I that believe in him.

All right.

Jesus kept the.

Law of Moses.

He earned the land.

A meek shall inherit the earth.

Jesus loved the Lord his God with all of his heart with all the soul with all his mind and love his neighbors as himself He said in the throne of

David Jesus fulfills all the covenant of works promises given in the

Old Testament.

And by doing so Through the death of the testator.

He's the one that made the covenant, right?

No one has ever seen the father Jesus has exegetic.

The father Jesus is the one that made the covenants.

The death of the one who made the covenant.

Had to die blood had to be shed.

It's the death of the testator and when Jesus Christ died it ushered in the new covenant,

which is the covenant of grace without the death of Jesus.

Without the one that bruises the head head of the serpent while only bruising his heel without that happening.

There is no new covenant.

There is no covenant of grace.

Yep.

Absolutely the.

The thing that I I'm so reminded of whenever I read these covenants that we see in the Old Testament specifically

it is always contingent upon physical obedience, right.

And it is always giving you either physical blessings or physical condemnation for

not obeying and so.

What happened to the person that wasn't circumcised.

They were not a part of.

They were cast from away from the cast out cut off.

What happens if somebody was brought in.

They were circumcised.

There was some physical Things that took place in order to get physical blessings.

Now when we go to the New Testament We need to remember that we we for we maintain that a man is

saved by faith apart From the works of the law.

The way that we gain entrance into this kingdom is not By physical obedience of

us.

It is by the physical obedience of our federal head that has imputed his righteousness into our account

and therefore it is a Covenant of grace and we got to remember.

What does the what's the definition of the word grace?

It's the free and merited gift of God.

Yeah, it's.

Something you did not earn exactly and so what you don't deserve.

I have I did have big gripes with looking at the Abrahamic Covenant or any Covenant in Old Testament and calling

that a covenant of grace.

Because that's not the definition of grace.

That would be the if somebody could obey These covenants which they could and they

did they were circumcised on the eighth day that did not merit them unmerited favor

with God that merit them physical blessings that the covenant maker maker made with them and was

Obligated to give to them because of their obedience when we go to the New Testament as far as salvation

and so that means that the the ethnic Jew that was obedient to these Things that never

had faith in God and Yahweh never had a true reliance on the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Never looked forward to the promise the seed coming.

It means that they they were rewarded with the physical blessings, but they died unto damnation.

That's just the way it is and so even though they partook in the Abrahamic Covenant as showing that they were the line of

Abram that this promise would come by.

It did not guarantee them salvation.

But when we go to the New Testament, we see that it is the one that is born again.

It receives the unmerited favor that he gains entrance into the unseen kingdom the kingdom that is not of this world.

John 19, right?

That's how we we gain entrance that's how Abraham gained entrance that's how Adam and Eve would gain entrance.

That's how any believer in the Old Testament gains entrance is the being born again having faith in the

gospel message and so then when we when we talk then about

The sign of that the the showing of what you have what you've

received Unmeritedly that was not by my obedience or your obedience

that is by a public profession of faith.

The.

Showing the world that you are dead in Christ and you've been risen with him again aka baptism.

Yeah.

So I do think that it's an error and I know you would agree with me Jeff.

I do think it's an error for those that baptize their children and in the hopes that it shows that they are part of

the covenant Family which the only way you gain Covenantally into

God's family is by being born again and being adopted into his fold.

Yeah, I have a lot of Presbyterian friends and yeah, and so and and of

course they would see it as a sin if you do not baptize your children and.

And he admitted it to me one day.

He said yeah.

Yeah, if you if you do not baptize your children.

Your infants then.

Then we believe that you're sinning and I said, well, that's funny because I believe if you baptize your infants you're

sinning.

Yeah, but mine comes from the moral wall thou shalt not steal.

Mm -hmm, you know if your child grows up to be a professing believer you have stolen

their baptism.

And listen, I say this because I I love.

I mean, I know a lot of Baptist.

They keep saying I love my presbyterian brothers, but but it's because we actually do consider

Presbyterians brothers right first John makes it clear if we had our brothers and then we are walking in

darkness.

All right.

And I do believe that the Presbyterians are our brothers, but I do believe again that they err in this

by by giving their child The Covenant sign before they have entered

the Covenant.

In order to enter the Covenant you have to have faith alone in Jesus Christ faith

alone as the entrance into the Covenant the kingdom of God is.

It's the unseen Reality that that the church lives in.

Right?

All right.

The church is the visible presence of this kingdom.

But the kingdom is not Inaugurated until the whole earth.

It is this one kingdom and that will be at the consummation when Jesus Christ feet touches the ground.

So until Jesus feet touch the ground there is no physical literal

Kingdom of God outside of the visible presence of his church.

All right.

His the church is in this covenant of grace in order to enter this covenant in order to

enter this kingdom you have to be born again that is given faith and if you Baptize

your child they are receiving the sign before the birth.

Notice that the Jew the Jewish doctor or the father I'd say it like this.

But they did not reach into the wife or the the woman before the birth of the

child.

To circumcise the child before the child was born.

That's basically what's taking place in Presbyterian Covenant theology they are given the sign

before the birth.

Mm -hmm.

That's not how it's done.

I Hate to be you know, you know to give you such a word picture, but I don't know any other way to explain it.

No sign comes after the birth.

The sign is baptism and it comes after the birth and I would also add this although the sign

in the old covenant is Circumcision and the sign in the new covenant is baptism

Baptism doesn't point back to circumcision.

Mm -hmm.

All right.

Colossians 2 does not point back to the circumcision of

a of the foreskin it points to the circumcision of Christ.

And the circumcision of Christ in the context is his Death burial and

resurrection.

Everything.

Everything Christian points back to what Christ did for us and

not what you and I can do for ourself.

I mean, I mean if you just go to To first Peter where it talks about the baptism that saves you read

the context.

It's speaking of the sufferings of Christ.

Amen.

Jesus said that I have a baptism to undergo and oh how I wished it was kindling.

All right.

This is after his baptism of John when John baptized him he's speaking of his death burial

and resurrection and when you and I are Baptized we are baptized into his death

burial resurrection.

Of Romans chapter 6.

Verses 3 through 5 and and let's just read some of that real quick.

So it if you don't mind, would you read?

I'm gonna read a clock cloche.

No I'm gonna read Colossians 2.

Okay, 8 through 12, and I want you to read

Romans 6.

Okay.

I mean, I mean you start at verse 1 if you want to but at least go to verse 5.

It kind of kicks in it.

And.

You got to read to verse 14 in Colossians 2 though.

Okay.

Yeah.

But.

Verse 5.

Right?

Yeah.

Yes.

So let me read Colossians first and then you read that and I'm gonna touch on a verse that I'm gonna be Hitting

on in my sermon this coming week that a lot of people in my Opinion

even especially Baptist get wrong.

Hmm, and I'm not afraid to say that that my Baptist brothers get some things wrong.

Alright, so in Colossians chapter 2.

Okay, I'm again in verse 9.

It says for in him.

So the hymn here's Christ.

You look back at verse a.

And not according to Christ so the nearest antecedent for the hymn is Christ for in him speaking of

Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells.

Now this is coming off of chapter 1.

Chapter 1 speaks about.

Yeah, so so so chapter 1 is speaking about the preeminence of Christ, but it points to

His resurrection him being the the firstborn among.

It.

Get him being the firstborn and the firstborn is speaking about the the resurrection and it's speaking about our

Resurrection and resurrection in him.

So first 9 it says for in him Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells

bodily.

And then it says and you have.

Okay, and you have been filled in him so in him dwells the deity.

Bodily in you speaking of the believer have been filled in him.

Who is the head of all rulers and authority in him?

Also you were?

Circumcised okay.

So in him we were circumcised with a Circumcision made without hands and so you say well, I

wonder what that was.

All right, keep reading it tells you by the putting off of the flesh by the

circumcision of Christ Having been buried with him in baptism

in which you were also raised with him through faith And the powerful

work and of God who raised him from the dead.

All right, look at verse 13 and you who were dead in your trespasses in the

uncircumcision.

So when we were Unbelievers when we were dead in our trespasses and uncircumcised

Dead our trespasses we were uncircumcised in our uncircumcision of your flesh right here

God made alive together with him having forgiven our trespasses.

So.

How was we circumcised?

By the death bearer and resurrection of Christ the gospel message the forgiveness of our sins.

How did that happen in verse 14 by the counseling the record of death that stood against us and its legal

demands this he set?

Aside and he nailed it to the cross.

All right.

The circumcision that Colossians is speaking of that we've been circumcised with is the

circumcision of Christ which is The death bearer and resurrection and we are

united to that by our being buried with him in baptism.

Read that.

Amen. Amen.

Roman 6 5 do you have a verse that you want me to end in or just just go until you say at least till 5.

6.

At least 3 through 5, but you can go to 1 if you want to.

Okay.

Yeah, let's let's go.

1 through 5.

It says what shall we say then.

Are we to continue in sin.

That grace might increase may it never be.

How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ have been baptized into his death?

Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism and into death in order that as

Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father.

So we too might walk in the newness of life.

Or if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death.

Certainly, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him that our body of sin might be done away with.

That we should no longer be slaves to sin.

And I'll just go to verse 8 here.

It says for he who has died is freed from sin.

Now if we have died to Christ we believe that we shall also live with him.

All right, so we die with Christ in baptism death burial resurrection.

Right here Galatians 2 20.

I have been crucified with Christ right here.

This is speaking of baptism.

It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me.

All right, get down here verse 27 for as many of you who read who were baptized into

Christ have put on Christ.

How do you put on Christ by being united with him?

How how do you how are you united with him?

He just read it.

It's in Baptism and it's speaking of that the outward water baptism.

Why.

Because our baptism is a confession of what Jesus Christ did for us death burial and resurrection.

Now, here's the two we talked about the two earlier and we'll talk about it again the circumcision of the heart

versus the circumcision of Christ.

The circumcision of the heart and.

The circumcision of Christ is is it's Christ saving us but also it speaks about a

water baptism.

So so I want to just read verse so so just for context we'll go to To 19

therefore brothers since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus.

By the new and living way that he has opened.

Through the curtain that is through his flesh and since we have a great high priest over the household of

God, so so Chapter 3 tells us that we are the household of

God.

That that it's through this this Ripping of Jesus's flesh that the glory of God

is revealed and that we are saved.

So so this is coming off the context was speaking about the insurance now verse 22 now.

So so I would add since that is true since we are saved by grace through faith in Christ by

what he has done verse 22 tells us let us draw near with a true heart

full of assurance of faith.

With our heart sprinkled clean right here Ezekiel 36 this is the

circumcision of the heart with our heart sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and.

Our bodies washed with pure water.

Notice, it doesn't say in our bodies washed with pure water and our hearts

sprinkled clean our hearts have to be.

Have to receive the circumcision our hearts have to receive the new birth the Removal of the heart

of stone and given the heart of flesh our hearts have to receive the new what

Ezekiel calls the.

The.

Well, it's the circumcision of the heart so and if the if the heart

transplant doesn't take place first and there's no need for the Adding the

water to the body.

But what our Presbyterian brothers do they baptize the children before?

The heart circumcision the the heart being sprinkled clean

from an evil conscience.

And Your heart has to be sprinkled clean from an evil conscience before your body can your body

can be washed with pure water.

Mm -hmm.

And so and so that's the argument of a true Reformed Baptist.

Both have to happen and it's only through the circumcision of Christ.

The circumcision of I mean the death bearing resurrection is that the message of that is how

our hearts are circumcised and Whenever our bodies are washed with pure water it

points back to that heart circumcision that message that circumcised our heart.

You know just kind of going back to something that you said earlier you're you're calling your

Presbyterian brothers as brothers, right?

And I call them brothers, too.

I love our.

What constitutes for you Jeff to call somebody a brother in Christ.

Yeah, yeah, yeah well.

Because I don't believe that baptism saves you amen.

All right, we're not saved by washing of the water.

Yeah, so so so so baptism isn't a symbol, right?

It's not a cross that I wear around my neck.

All right, but like our confession says it is a sign.

All right, so a baptism carries information.

It's my confession that I hold to.

It's me saying that I have.

I have been buried.

I have died when Christ died.

I died and when he was buried I was buried.

When he rose.

I rose.

Right.

Paul says I have been crucified with Christ.

It's no longer I who live but it's Christ that lives in me.

So Baptism is our confession.

It's not what saved us Christ through this message of what he has done.

So so God purposed to save a people.

Jesus accomplishes the purpose by living the life.

We could not live dying the death that we should die and through that message of what he has done The Holy Spirit applies the

purpose.

Yeah.

And so anyone who that purpose has been applied to who has received a circumcised heart is my

brother.

And then the Presbyterians I would say are the closest to Reformed

Baptists in Theology.

Now you have to understand something I know you understand this that that during the Reformation Reformed Baptists

were were reforming from not only from Catholicism not only.

From.

Lutheranism but also from Presbyterianism, but they wasn't reforming from

Presbyterianism the same way they were reforming from Lutheranism or Catholicism.

Yeah, who held to baptismal regeneration?

Alright, they were closest to The Presbyterians when it comes to because

they held to covenant theology they just saw covenant theology.

Slightly different.

Yeah.

Slightly different with a sharp angle, right?

Right, and so we do believe there are brother our Presbyterian brothers.

Those who have faith in Christ are our real true brothers.

We absolutely believe that because I don't believe that baptism is what saves you.

But I do believe that that baptism points back to what happens to you.

Yeah, and I do believe that.

You know that, you know, I don't think that you know, they're not Christians, but I do believe that they're gonna.

You know, I don't think I Wouldn't say that God is happy that they're

baptizing infants or our God is pleased with it.

And that's fair because most likely a Presbyterian would say that they said They God probably isn't happy with us for not

baptizing our children, right?

But where I was going with and I think you know that truly right where I needed to be was that you call a person a brother in

Christ after They have had Salvation in Christ, right?

Right, right your Constitution for being able to call someone a brother is By a

demonstration of somebody else's public profession of faith, right?

That's what we're saying baptism is that that's that's the it comes after these things that I

would not go To a child that is baptized that can't speak that cries for his mother's breasts and

call him my brother or sister in Christ.

I'm not doing that because I don't know if they're my brother or sister in Christ now if there's the

the 14 year old that comes up to me and says I had faith in Jesus Christ last week and It's

only through him.

I am saved.

He is my brother or sister in Christ.

Let's go down to the river.

Right, right because you're my brother you're my sister in those ways and

so I I truly think that the Because if we think

of baptism as that as what you were saying the significance of it being a sign and a

And a public profession of faith, like I don't think baptism should be done privately.

I think I'm done publicly, right?

Right, right.

What is it telling the world when we have a child that gets baptized Publicly for people that this person has no

choice.

They have nothing there's no fruit there.

There's no demonstration of true faith in Christ there.

It is literally a child getting a bath, right?

I I don't think it's doing anything to the unconverted world and and Like you said that

it can cause confusion in the future for a child that I've already been baptized.

You might even have people that don't put true faith in Christ because oh, yeah, I was baptized.

I'm good to go.

I've heard this confession.

I used to be a Presbyterian.

Oh.

My daughter Trinity was baptized as an infant.

Really really?

Yeah, and and and let me tell you right now.

She has not been baptized.

Yeah, biblically.

Yeah.

She's 11 years old now.

She hasn't come to me and professed faith in Christ.

I raised her in a Christian home.

We catechize her.

We treat her no different, you know.

She's around the church, but she has not professed faith in Christ.

And if you ask me I Actually think she's a believer but she hasn't

publicly professed that yet.

And so I haven't.

I'm not forcing her under the water.

And I actually think she's a believer.

Like like like she you know, we pray together.

Like, you know, but you know, I'm not trying.

I'm not forcing this on her.

I'm living the Christian life.

My you know we're living the Christian life around our children and encouraging them to to

have a relationship with the only true God.

Right and.

So and there's something else I was gonna say, but I actually forgot it.

So well, let me I want to back up on something that you said there because you said that you pray with your child.

Right, I pray with my two -and -a -half -year -old downstairs.

He we pray every single time we eat meals.

I pray with him when he's going to bed.

I pray with him all the time, right?

There's a and and so the Presbyterian that wants to argue.

Well baptism is is that step to help them just like how you pray with your child.

Well Why would you play a pray with an unbeliever then right.

And then that kind of justification of things?

Well prayer is not the same as a sign of a covenant.

That's two different things there and we are as Reformed Baptists we are trying to raise our family

up in Christ and demonstrate the grace that God has given to you and I and

and and to our wives and I Still cannot force God's

hand at making my child be born again.

I cannot do that.

I cannot.

Yeah, I will pray with them I will show them the good things, but I will not give them a sign of the Covenant.

It would be like if I was in Abraham's day I Just going up to a child that is not

born of Abraham and circumcising them with the sign of that Covenant, right?

That would not be okay.

Yes.

Yes when I baptized.

When I baptize someone I'll say do you believe that Jesus is the Christ the son

of the Living God?

Do you believe that Christ Jesus died for your sins?

According to the scriptures that he was buried and that God raised him from the dead.

And if they profess that With their mouth. I'll say on your profession of faith.

I Baptize you under the authority of Jesus Christ in the name of the Father Son

and Holy Spirit.

Buried with him in baptism raised with him in the newness of life now.

We have been asked a question on my Facebook page.

Yeah, it says.

In what's I'm a little far from my phone.

In what space?

The.

In my space.

Okay question.

What does baptism look like for a nonverbal believer?

All right, that's a good question.

Absolutely, so so I would say that that for the most part.

You know, like like you're not saying they're they're they're blind.

They're they're deaf and they can't talk right?

So so for the most part I don't understand like, you know how far to take

the verbal part, but let's just say for the most part.

Everyone can communicate somehow.

Yeah.

Right, and and if they can't again baptism doesn't save you.

And so we just trust God will.

Will make that evident.

And when we say a profession of faith, what we're saying is that there's there's a a Visual change in

somebody that they've had a new they've had the circumcision of their heart in that sense.

They've had the the blood of Christ imputed over them has covered them.

That's their righteousness and.

And the easiest way of fruit from that kind of a thing that takes place in somebody's life is

public profession.

But for somebody that is truly nonverbal that cannot have a public profession.

You will still have public Professions whether it be verbal or nonverbal that you'll still be able to tell somebody's a

believer or not.

Just just because of the change of heart that they have in them that they have been born again.

Yeah, not not now.

Here's something to think about.

The earliest record that we have for baptism is found in what's called the Didache and in the Didache they

they made it clear.

So this is the earliest.

All right.

There's nothing before this outside of Scripture concerning baptism.

They said that you know immersion was necessary if possible

and it had to be living water, which meant The water need it be some kind of a

running flow in water and that it had to be code if possible.

And they said that if there was not enough water to emerge or dip them in then

you would take Three cups and you will pour it over them one in the name of the Father.

One in the name of the Son and one in the name of the Holy Spirit.

All right now me as a Baptist, how do I feel about that.

I have absolutely no problem with nothing.

Yeah, so, you know if I was, you know visiting someone at the hospital deathbed, they're dying in 30 minutes.

They profess faith and genuinely wanted to be baptized.

I got no problem with getting some three pitchers of water.

We're doing it and we're getting her done and if you're a Baptist and you have a problem with that man.

You need to check your heart.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's exactly.

I've always said that you know the immersion or submersion is the preferred method but it's not the Only

one by any means that there's.

Yeah, there's definitely permissible.

Experiences.

Yeah, I will definitely accept the three water.

Oh, yeah glass.

I mean only if there is no water for them to be baptized.

Oh, yeah.

Well and I mean like there's examples of people that are in prison that only have their own fecal matter and urine to be

baptized in and they will do it and For anybody that wants to say that that person wasn't legitimately

baptized.

I'm telling you You need to check your heart big -time, yeah I just I just

grabbed my notebook to look at what my last baptismal questions were not mine was.

Do you believe God to be perfect?

Well, I list a whole bunch of attributes.

Do you believe God to be pretty much what God is presented in the Bible?

Do you believe that he has given us the moral law and it's written it on your heart?

Do you have you broken this law?

If not covered by Jesus's blood standing before God today, would you deserve heaven or hell?

Do you believe in the Trinity God being one and being in three in persons?

Do you believe the word Son of God becoming flesh dwelt amongst us and lived a perfect life?

Do you believe that you do you have faith in the gospel the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to scriptures being the

only?

Means of salvation if you die today, are you covered by Jesus's righteousness and are alone?

And the alone and this alone is your boast.

Do you wish to follow him servant and worship him?

Do you wish to be baptized in the name of the Father the Son of the Holy Spirit?

Those are my questions and so like we we see that what we are trying to do is reform

Baptists is trying to show that this person is having faith in Christ and it is through

those means that they are saved and that this is The sign of the covenant that they're doing right now

a sign of what has taken place in them.

All right, so again we had I Touched on this earlier.

So a question was is how do we understand Peter's words baptism now saves you?

And again, I touched on it and I pointed to the.

That the baptism that now saves you is the baptism of Jesus.

Speaking of his death burial resurrection and we see that in here.

So if you look at verse 18 of 1st Peter Chapter 3 it says.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, so so

so what's he talking about?

His death burial resurrection.

Yes, the righteous for the unrighteous.

Jesus being the righteous for us the unrighteous.

That he might bring us to God.

Being put to death in the flesh and being made alive in the spirit.

Speaking of his death burial resurrection.

And then it gives us some commentary of what took place then in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison

because they formally did not obey when God Patiently waited in the days of Noah

while the ark was being prepared.

In which a few that is eight persons were brought safely through water.

Baptism.

Which corresponds to this now saves you not as a removal of the dirt of the

body.

But by an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Notice it didn't say resurrection of Jesus Christ into the end of verse 21 verse 18

and Spoke about his death Burial and his spirit being made alive.

And then verse 21 speaks about his resurrection.

The baptism that it points to is the baptism of Christ.

Jesus said I have a baptism to undergo and know how I wished it was kindling.

Speaking of his death burial resurrection.

When you are baptized your back.

Romans chapter 6.

You're baptized into his death burial resurrection.

Yeah, I'm so happy that you went there and somebody asked that question because it says and corresponding to that

It's talking about what I just spoke of and like you may mention of in verse 18 It starts out this way and in verse 21.

This is what I really love about this.

It speaks of this event that takes place in the Old Testament.

That is typology for who Christ is and what he has done on our behalf.

Christ was on the cross.

He took the wrath for me and you the believers.

He took the wrath.

He became sin.

The one who knew no sin became sin on our behalf.

So we might be made the righteous of God in him if you look at the the ark Account

and what took place there?

Noah and the other individuals on the ark Went through

the water.

Yet they did not suffer the wrath of the judgment of the water what suffered the wrath and the judgment of the water.

The boat did the ark did it felt every cent an ounce of water that was meant for Noah and those

Individuals all the way and all the all everything everything.

And so what do we see in Christ that those whom he died for?

He is now our ark.

He has suffered those things and it is only through him just as Noah was saved through the ark.

It is only through Christ that we are saved.

Yeah, it's very safe to think this.

When you think of baptism think of the death bearing resurrection of Jesus think the gospel,

okay.

Your baptism is a public display of what Jesus Christ did for you again.

You're being dumped underwater isn't what saves you.

It's the circumcision of the heart must take place first say by grace through faith.

But what do those who are saved by grace through faith do they?

Obey by being baptized with that profession of what Jesus Christ has done for them.

They go and take this the sign of that covenant the sign of the covenant those who are born again.

Receive the sign of the covenant and what's beautiful about it is in verse 21 and it says not the removal

of dirt from the flesh.

But an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

This is not speaking of when I go down to the lake and jump in and get wet and have dirt removed from.

This has nothing to do with our baptism.

The baptism that saves is what Christ did for us on the cross.

I love it.

We didn't talk about this verse beforehand either and this is my conclusion that I have to.

I have a bunch of Church of Christ friends one of them in particularly like like he's

he's just a diamond in the rough, right.

And.

We have conversations and we go back and forth and and he's reforming right?

Yeah, and.

You know and and this is kind of like like I'm gonna be honest with you I used to be scared to have this this

conversation right like this verse scared the crap out of my my being a

Baptist and and whatever but.

But.

You know, you know after studying and you know and and becoming a pastor's, you know being

schooled and and understand, you know.

Reading the scriptures more clearly letting the scripture interpret scripture like like the answer is there you

don't have to make something up.

It's in the context.

The answer is in the context.

It is.

You know, you have to let.

Every book has a theme and every Paragraph has a theme and the theme of

the paragraph cannot contradict the theme of the book.

No.

And when you have this understanding as you're reading scripture and you're walking through the text verse by

verse and you see that that just because you know when something's mentioned in chapter

1 and and then in chapter 12.

You get to chapter 12 and you see something that seems different.

Don't forget what's mentioned in chapter 1 and apply it.

Like let scripture interpret scripture.

The writer knows what he's doing.

The Holy Spirit, baby.

Yeah, amen.

You know, that's the that's the whole point that this is the covenant of grace as I said before it is the unmerited favor

Of God that we are speaking of here the same favor that saved Abraham the same favor that saves me.

It is only through that grace that I am saved.

And.

When you have that understanding it is no longer on the basis of works.

Because if we say that it's on the basis of works and whatever work that is that you want to apply to things over there Be circumcision

baptism Obedience, whatever those works are that you're saying you have to have

Christ then died needlessly according to Galatians chapter 2 verse 21.

It is not on the basis of work lest any man should boast.

It is only the gift of God that saves us.

Yeah, yeah, and if you notice like the Baptism is a picture of a lot of things like if you just

look back at our confession It's a sign of fellowship with him in his death and resurrection.

Like I would add his burial death or resurrection of those being grafted into him, right?

Remember earlier I I talked about those that are baptized and Galatians chapter 3

27 those that are baptized in him.

I don't want to misquote it.

Mm -hmm.

Give me some grace for a second.

I'm giving you unmerited favor right now.

License 327 for as many as were baptized into Christ put

on Christ go to Romans chapter 13 verse 14 But put on the Lord

Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh.

How do you put them on through baptism?

Right here being grafted in him in baptism I like it's just giving us some of the information of the

remission of sins that our baptism is a sign.

It's a picture of the remission of sins.

Now, how are our sins remitted by the death burial resurrection of Jesus?

All right, but our baptism points to what happened?

We are in him.

Everything points back to Jesus Christ and if you're and if your covenant theology

everything doesn't point back to Jesus Christ, you got a faulty covenant theology and submitting themselves to

God through Jesus Christ even our.

You know, I don't know about Other people but but our confession that we have to the 16 and I.

It plainly tells us that the gospel that Justifies us is the gospel that sanctifies us

the gospel that gives us faith also Repents us that the gospel

message what Jesus done faiths us and it repents us All right.

It's the powerful working of God if you are his.

You will get in line you will walk.

So two weeks ago I was preaching and I.

And and I spoke about a time when I was roofing a house and when I was on the roof.

Well, we pulled up to roof a house and this woman.

She had a farm and she had I don't know at least a hundred sheep like they were just sheep everywhere.

Yeah, and they were just in the field minding their own business doing what they do.

They listen.

They didn't even look at us.

We were over acting a donkey trying to get their attention.

They wouldn't even look at us.

We were calling them You know snapping our fingers patting our bellies and legs trying to get them to come over

so we can pet them.

They didn't look at us man.

And this that woman sticks her head out the window and she makes a clicking sound with her mouth.

Something like that and every one of those sheep looked at her and took off running to her.

Because they knew their masters voice.

All right, and what I'm telling you that our confession teaches is that those who have been

circumcised in their heart.

They've been rebirth.

They've received a new birth when they hear the voice of Jesus.

They follow because the same gospel that justifies is the same gospel that sanctifies and

it will be that gospel That glorifies.

Amen.

And then I.

Think that's a perfect way to end it.

Stop being a theonymous stopping in a pedo -baptist.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we and we plan on doing a Program on theonomy

as some of y 'all might know I.

Was.

You know at one time I would have said I was a theonomist.

Preaching through the book of Galatians showed me that I was not a theonomist and then looking further

into it.

You know, I've got you know, I mean I got good friends that are you know, our theonymous, you know

I just got caught up into it.

It just kind of fit well with post -millennialism and stuff like that.

And and now where I stand I wouldn't even say that I'm a post -millennial is just because of the baggage

that it brings.

I would now say that I am a optimistic partial preterist.

Because I think the all meals got a lot of things right?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

I thought you were gonna say a lot of things wrong.

I was like, no, we don't.

Think I've got a lot of things, right?

Yeah, I think you got a lot of things wrong, too.

Just like the the post mills.

I think they got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong the post mills try to Make the

kingdom of God fit literal like a literal kingdom on earth right now and I think if you do

that you are.

You're basically denying the words of Jesus about you must be born again to see or enter.

Yeah, it's physical.

You can see and enter without being born again.

And so I have a problem with that and I have a problem with all meals as well as making everything spiritual.

So I believe that yeah.

Yeah, so I'm just kind of walk in the fence right there and so I'm happily saying that I'm an

optimistic partial preterist and.

And it's just because of the baggage, you know that I walked away from the post mill camp,

you know.

Every time I say I'm a post mill. I'm automatically as they assume I'm a theonomist and I am

absolutely anti.

You know, I'm not against you know the word theonomy and and whenever we do

this talk I'll explain why.

But but we plan on doing something.

Maybe in the next month or two and it's funny because that's the way that I ended up meeting you.

Was because I knew you were a post millennialist and I had questions regarding theonomy and some other post millennialism questions.

And so that's how you thought I was a theonomist.

I thought you were a theonomist.

Yeah.

Yeah, what I tell you you were like, no.

That's garbage.

We are.

The same gospel that saved us is the same gospel that sanctifies us and will glorify us.

Jesus is putting all enemies under his feet.

How by his death burial and resurrection.

Amen, he knows it.

Hey, he doesn't need me at all.

No, I'm so glad he uses me.

All right, well I guess we'll shut down and I think we might have another question.

Let me see.

So we're not.

I'm trying to hit okay.

So he says so you're saying that the baptism that Peter is talking about is the physical

display?

Water baptism of what Christ did in the gospel and what

happens in a spiritual baptism.

I'm saying that The baptism that saves is the death

burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Jesus said in the Gospels I can't remember which one I think it's Matthew that he has a baptism to

undergo and oh how he wished it was kindling this is after his

actual water baptism that he You know to fulfill all things this pointed to his

high priesthood.

And so and so the baptism that he's speaking about in that context would be his death

burial and resurrection.

The baptism that saves us is the gospel of Jesus Christ him

dying for our sins according to the scriptures being buried and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures

that message is how is the power of God unto salvation and that

message points to What's called?

The circumcision of Christ.

I mean it's called many things in Colossians is the circumcision of Christ and First Pete and first Peter is the

the baptism of Christ.

But but but it's pointed out in Romans.

Romans chapter, he read it earlier chapter Six that you know that our baptism

is a picture of the death burial and resurrection Of Jesus Christ, and so the baptism

that saves is not us being baptized.

But it's Jesus's death burial resurrection and and there is no other way of

understanding that without falling into heresy.

Yeah.

And and fall into some form of workspace salvation.

Yeah.

Yeah, and Yeah, yeah, so just just to recap for that individual again.

We're saying that baptism is a sign of the covenant of grace that was instituted in the New Covenant.

Jesus Christ living the life that we could not live dying the death that we deserve was buried and rose again on the third day.

And that's the the covenant of grace that we see.

And it is only after one is born again Spiritually born from above that one should it be baptized.

And that one shouldn't be baptized prior to that public demonstration or public profession of faith.

That would be going against what I see in Scripture.

And.

Yeah, we're saying the Abrahamic Covenant is not the covenant of grace.

Yes.

So if you really want continuity between the old and the New Covenant is that in the old covenant?

They had to be born before they received the sign and the New Covenant.

You have to be born again before you receive the sign.

That is perfect continuity.

The only discontinuity would be in the sign itself.

Yep, well, I think we we hit the

nail.

I'm so happy.

We didn't disagree.

Told me on the phone that we were gonna maybe disagree.

I was like, I don't know we could disagree on this but okay.

Like I've been talking to some reformed Baptist and you know, and I even think James White kind of has a different

opinion on it and I'm like, I mean I've listened to his message on it and I'm not sure if he

Listened to him.

I'm not sure if he actually believes which which he could correct me and I take that correction.

That that baptism is the sign of a lot of the people that I've been speaking to you they say yeah, the circumcision of the

heart is the sign.

And I listened to like one of the the main guys of the reformed pub and He was

speaking about reformed baptist is how they differ and they believe that the circumcision of the heart is the sign.

I'm like, well, I don't believe that.

No.

That's regeneration.

That's region that's been born again.

You have to be born before you receive the sign and so I have 100 believe that baptism I mean listen, this is a

I'll read you word for word What I say.

Because we do the Lord's Supper every week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm gonna read you word for word what I say as we I'll say this

by way of fencing the table.

We believe that the Lord's Supper should be taken by those who have entered the new covenant by

faith alone in Christ alone and Have received the new

covenant sign Baptism if at this time you have not received Christ

by faith and have not been baptized in the name of the Father Son and

Holy Spirit.

We ask that you not partake.

Yeah.

Love it.

All right.

Oh, yeah.

I remember what I was gonna say earlier.

Forgive me.

No, you're good.

So I See this a lot online.

They'll ask a Baptist, you know because like I have two Presbyterian families that go to my

church one of them has become members and Another one they're waiting to our

our meeting to see how things go there and to make a decision.

But they you know.

So we have to schedule meetings a year and so we have one come in the last Lord's Day of June.

And so I think they'll make their decision after that if they want to become members, which I'm sure they will go.

And so and so they'll ask if someone has been Baptized as an infant would we

before we let them in the membership?

Would they have to be re -baptized?

And my answer is yes, of course.

Absolutely.

And a lot of people they get mad when you say that a lot of Presbyterians get mad when you say that.

But here's the thing.

Why would you not want me to be consistent?

I would think if I said no, no, it doesn't matter I think then a Presbyterian should be mad at me.

They should throw up some red alarms there.

Yeah, because I'm saying that that's something that important doesn't matter now.

I don't think it's salvific.

But it is important.

It's very important.

And I believe it's important for us to be consistent with what we say that we believe.

All right, of course, I would take their profession of faith and I would baptize them.

But they would not be able to become a member of the church.

Unless they were baptized as a believer.

Why.

Because we have because I cannot allow them in good conscience to partake in the Lord's Supper.

Unless they had been baptized as a believer in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Because the the supper is for those that are in Christ.

I mean, I mean just Listen to the words of Romans chapter.

Chapter.

I think it's chapter 8 8 verse 9.

Yeah, listen to this you however are not in the flesh.

But in the spirit, so he's speaking to a Christian if in fact the Spirit of God dwells

in you.

Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ?

Does not belong to him

and so our Presbyterian friends say that their children belong to Christ.

Well, how can you be in the Covenant and not in the covenant?

How can you be in Christ and still have Adam as your federal head?

You can't have two federal heads.

The only way that the only way to read to have the Spirit of God in you the Spirit of Christ is first your

Heart has to be circumcised.

Yeah, that's the new birth.

Then you receive the sign those verses you were just talking about how it's about speaking about regeneration being in

Christ or being born again.

Like.

To be in him you have to be born again.

There there is no if ends or buts about it.

And so I mean even for an encouragement for for the Presbyterian like in that situation that you're talking about

I would even say like not even a membership in my saying that this person needs to be baptized again this person because they are

Christian and have been born again after their first In my opinion on valid baptism,

right and their first baptism before they had Been born again.

They need to be baptized after being born again period regardless of the membership issue

right.

That that's a that's a.

That's different.

We're saying that you need to be baptized again.

Not need to in salvific ways.

But need to in a sign of the covenant that you are now a part of right for however many years now.

But it was definitely not when you were originally born, right?

All right, good stuff, man.

Love it.

All right.

So any last words.

Now, I appreciate you letting me be on here tonight.

I mean, I appreciate you coming man.

I did not want to address this by myself.

Well, well, I mean I don't mind doing a podcast by myself.

But I feel like I don't feel like this is my podcast.

This is our podcast.

Absolutely.

Well, this is a difficult subject to just ramble without interaction back and forth.

You know what?

I mean?

I know what I totally understand what you're saying.

Yeah.

It's all right.

We're very good.

Well, we enjoyed everyone.

I mean we we enjoy talk about this and we appreciate everyone.

Who?

Joined in listen those that ask questions.

We we really do enjoy this we love y 'all.

And and to our Presbyterian brothers.

Know that we are your brothers.

We love you.

In the same way that you think we're wrong.

We think you're wrong.

We're just biblical in our assertion.

So Anyways, hallelujah.

Holla back.

Hallelujah.

You gotta say holla back.

Oh hall back.

Sorry.

I'm not used to it.

I'm not I'm not used to it.