September 15, 2020 Show with Dr. Tony Costa on “Why Islam Cannot Bear Criticism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com,

or should I say, for the sake of my Canadian guest, ironsharpensironradio .com.

My guest today is one of my favorite returning guests of all time, Dr. Tony Costa, on this 15th day of September 2020, and today is

Tuesday, September 15th, 2020, Dr. Tony Costa is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, and today we are going to be addressing the theme,

Why Islam Cannot Bear Criticism, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to ironsharpensiron, or ironsharpensiron,

Dr. Tony Costa. It's a pleasure to be with you, Chris, and by the way,

I don't talk like that, you must be talking about the Atlantic Canadians on the Maritime side, so.

I don't know, it sounds pretty much like the way you said it in the NASB ad that you do.

Well, to tell you a quick funny story, I got approached by a woman who's a member of the church where I am a member also,

Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, not so sure they're too happy for me to tell the world that, but anyway,

I got approached by her after the service, and she said to me, you know,

I have to tell you something, I don't like your announcement in the beginning of the show, I said, really, why not?

She said, well, the man who's doing the announcement mispronounces iron, he says iron sharpens iron, and I laughed, and I said, he's

Canadian, they all pronounce it that way, and I said, in fact, they're the ones that are spelling it,

I mean, that are pronouncing it the way we spell it, so I don't know if I'd be too critical of that, but anyway, tell our listeners about Toronto Baptist Seminary.

Sure, Toronto Baptist Seminary is a Reformed Baptist Seminary that began in the early 1930s in Toronto, Canada, and it was started by the late

Dr. T .T. Shields, who was the pastor of Jarvis Street Baptist Church, also in the city of Toronto, and we are a seminary that is committed to the

Gospel of Jesus Christ. Our model in Greek is kata kriston, which means according to Christ, and we train men and women for the mission field, we train them for academia, some of our students have gone on to doctoral studies in some leading universities around the world, and we also train men for ministry, and we, again, are a seminary that are committed to the doctrines of grace, and we are also fully committed to the

Gospel of Christ, we do not compromise with the secular state, we do not compromise with any liberal theology, and our seminary is privately funded, and for that reason, we try to keep the separation of church and state as clean as possible.

Great, and if anybody wants to find out more information about Toronto Baptist Seminary, go to tbs .edu,

tbs .edu. Well, as the professor of Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, you're obviously very well suited to discuss what we are going to be discussing today, why

Islam cannot bear criticism, and if you could clarify exactly what that means, there's a reason why you said, because you came up with this theme, there's a reason why you said why

Islam cannot bear criticism, because there are Muslims who are apologists who open themselves and their religion up for public critique when they get involved in debates with you and our mutual friend,

Dr. James White, so it's not that there are no Muslims who are willing to have an open critique during an exchange of some kind, an interreligious exchange, whether it be a debate or something else, but you said why

Islam cannot bear criticism, so if you can explain. Right, right, and the reason why it's phrased that way,

Chris, is because ultimately what we're doing is we are analyzing and we are critiquing an ideology.

We're not necessarily critiquing people, because obviously people are followers of ideologies, people follow various worldviews and so forth, and so the reason why we phrase it that way is because we want to point out that the ideology itself of Islam is one that is not open to criticism.

In fact, as we will see today, its major sources, the Quran and the

Hadith, the traditions and sayings of Muhammad clearly show that the religion of Islam is above criticism, it is not to be questioned, and to question it is to face the charge of blasphemy and also potentially to go into eternal punishment and hell.

And it's interesting that when Muslim apologists are involved in scholarly exchanges and debates with non -Muslims, they will frequently, the

Muslims that is, will frequently borrow from the Western world's enemies of Christianity who are also not

Muslim, they will borrow from these folks like Bart Ehrman who is an apostate who became an agnostic who writes extensively on textual criticism trying to bring into doubt and utter rejection the

New Testament and the Bible as a whole, and that he has a mission, a passionate mission to bring

Christians to the point where they doubt and then reject the

Scriptures and cease being Christian. Well, it's interesting that for folks that know their own religion does not permit the kind of scrutiny and criticism that they are willing to allow agnostics and atheists and even those that are enemies of Islam to bring to light, they will not dare allow the same kind of scrutiny allowed to be occurring amongst

Muslims on their own religion, on the Quran and so on. Right, there's always double standards in this case,

Chris, and our mutual friend Dr. James White has said, and I totally agree with him, he said that he's still looking for that consistent

Muslim, and he's very right on this because many Muslims that I engage with use one set of rules against the

Bible and Christianity, but they will not use the very same rules against the Quran and their history, including the person of Muhammad.

So Bart Ehrman is a great example. Bart Ehrman is liked because he brings into question the preservation of the

New Testament and the textual integrity of the New Testament, but at the same time, when

Bart Ehrman critiques Islam and says, how can you deny the death of Jesus on the cross, that is one of the most established historical facts that we know of, well, they drop

Bart Ehrman on that point. They will not use him on that point because he contradicts the

Quran in its denial of the crucifixion and death of Jesus. There is a video that I posted about a year or so ago,

Chris, of a Muslim sitting down with Bart Ehrman in a restaurant and actually expecting him to give a good, solid reputation of the

Trinity, and interestingly enough, I think Bart Ehrman basically saw through this guy and he basically went on to say, oh no, no, the

New Testament shows very clearly there's three persons who are called God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And the Muslim did not get the response he wanted, and I thought, wow, I mean, here is Bart Ehrman actually giving up a good defense for the

Trinity. And I was very impressed by that. But it's exactly that,

Chris. It's a double standard. And as we know, and again, James White has said this before, that the sign of a failed argument is always an inconsistent argument.

And unfortunately, our Muslim friends really do need to do better. They need to use even balancers and stop using double standards.

Well, before you go into some of your own examples of how this is made manifest,

I know one thing that seems to be clear from my own exposure to debates with Muslims and hearing lectures on Islam, including by you, that there seems to be a scenario much like what we found in the novel,

Faranite 451, where history is erased and Muslims act as if there is only one

Quran and there never were earlier versions, and yet they love to try to cast out upon the

New Testament and the Bible because of the many different versions over the centuries that have appeared in written form of the

Bible. So if you could comment on that. Yeah. The Muslims, one of the tactics

Muslims always use is the Quran that we have in our hand is the very same Quran that was given to Muhammad back starting in 610

A .D. until his death in 632 A .D. This is the same Quran, the same words, no words have been changed, no letters have been changed, not even one dot or a dot or a pittle has been changed in this

Quran. Now, what we know from, again, manuscript studies of the

Quran is that there are many different versions of the Quran. In fact, my good friend

Hakun Tash and Jerry Smith, both good friends of mine, have demonstrated they've actually collected over 35 -36

Qurans from around the world and they all read differently. And that's because the

Quranic text suffered textual corruption just like any other text in its transmission, including the

Bible. And therefore, the claim that Muslims are making that the Quran is this preserved text that has never been changed, not altered in one of its letters, is blatantly false.

In fact, Dr. Yasir Qadhi, this is what kind of has started this whole anger around the

Muslim world, is because Yasir Qadhi was being interviewed by Muhammad Hijab and Muhammad Hijab says, look, can you tell us about these other

Qurans and can you explain to us, we keep hearing people, the

Christian apologists are using this against us, and what is the Quran? Is there one particular book that we can say is the

Quran? And Qadhi said, look, they're all the Quran. And then he went on to say the narrative, the standard narrative that we

Muslims give for the Quran's preservation has holes in it. So here is one of the top leading scholars in the

United States, Islamic scholars in the United States, openly admitting that the standard narrative

Muslims use on the Quran is filled with holes. And that's because,

Chris, the Quran is not a homogenous text. There have been changes. There are variants.

Parts of it have gone missing. Whole chapters are said to have gone missing. And people forgot what certain verses said.

So the claim is, again, false on its face when you give a closer examination.

By the way, I'm going to give our listeners our email address in the event that they would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Well, give us some of your own examples of how this phenomenon is working.

Yeah, so what I'll do, Chris, is I'm going to share a couple of passages both from the Quran and from what's called the

Hadith. The Hadith is a collection of what Muhammad said and did, and that's how Muslims patterned their lives around what he said and did, because he's believed to be the greatest exemplar that should be followed.

And so I'm going to begin with the Quran first, and so these passages will bring to light why

Islam presents itself as something that cannot be questioned. So in chapter 4, verse 65 of the

Quran, and again, this is to demonstrate to our listeners and our Muslim listeners that they're joining us that we are not making this up.

This is not our ideas. These come out of their sources. So the Quran, chapter 4, verse 65, this is supposed to be

Allah, the term for God in the Quran, speaking, he says to Muhammad, but know by your

Lord, they, that is, the Muslims, can have no faith until they make you, Muhammad, judge in all disputes between them and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions and accept them with full submission.

So in this text, Chris, Allah tells the Muslims, look, until you make

Muhammad the judge in all your disputes, and you don't resist him, you will have no success, you will have no faith, unless you submit to Muhammad without resistance.

In other words, you cannot question the Prophet, you cannot go against whatever he claims

Allah has revealed to him. So the first thing we learn from this is that Muslims are not to question

Muhammad's judgments. What he says is sacrosanct, and it is to be observed.

Chapter 4, verse 80 of the Quran goes on to say, he who obeys the messenger, that is

Muhammad, has indeed obeyed Allah. But he who turns away, then we have sent you, that is

Muhammad, as a watcher over them. So to obey Muhammad is to obey

Allah. And so there is this, there's this intimacy between Allah and the

Prophet Muhammad, that whoever obeys the Prophet, obeys Allah. Now, he goes on to say this, and this is now chapter 9 of the

Quran, and verse 61, it says, and among them are men who hurt the

Prophet. The word hurt there means also to annoy. So there are men who hurt the Prophet, and then he says, he is, they say about Muhammad, he is lending his ear to every news, or he believes everything he hears.

And then Allah says, say, he listens to what is best for you. He believes in Allah, has faith in the believers, and is a mercy to those of you who believe.

Now notice this, but those who hurt Allah's messenger will have a painful torment.

So whoever hurts, or insults, or annoys the messenger of Allah, he is to have a painful torment, that is, in Hell.

So what we can gather, at least from these three passages from the Quran, is that there are those who intend to hurt, or insult, the

Prophet. And by insulting the Prophet, they will face a painful torment.

And it's based on passages like this, Chris, that many Muslims have taken a very sharp stand against any criticism of Muhammad, which would include depicting him in cartoons, or depicting him in art.

And as we've come to the anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris, France, where we have these journalists who painted or put out cartoons of Muhammad, which incidentally they've republished, they were all slaughtered by Muslim terrorists.

And the reason for that was, they claimed, after they had slaughtered these men, they claimed that they were avenging the

Prophet, Muhammad. So these passages make very clear that to insult

Muhammad brings dire consequences. Now here's another passage, Chris, this is from chapter 33 of the

Quran, verse 36. It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger, that's

Muhammad, have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision.

And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has indeed strayed in a plain error.

So again, it's not for a believer, woman or man, that is a Muslim, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter.

So when Allah has revealed something to Muhammad, and Muhammad has declared or decreed on a given situation, you have no opinion whatsoever in their decision.

You cannot question them. Because to disobey Allah and His Messenger is to be in plain error.

And then in the same chapter, verse 57, it says this, Verily, those who malign

Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and in the hereafter, and has prepared for them an abasing punishment.

So notice again, those who malign. Well, if you malign Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them.

But not just in this world, but in the hereafter. And so it's from passages like this that Muslim jurists and commentators have seen that those who offend the

Prophet or malign the Prophet, the idea of cursing them in this world is basically, they see this as a call for the penalty for blasphemy.

To kill them, execute them for blasphemy, because they're already cursed by Allah. And then it goes on to say this, it says this, this is in chapter 33 again, and verses 60 to 61, it's referring to hypocritical

Muslims here. Now if you remember, Chris, when ISIS rose to power in Syria and in Iraq, after Barack Obama removed the

U .S. military from that region, ISIS came and filled in the vacuum there. The majority of people who were killed by ISIS were

Muslims. People said, well, wait a minute, it's not Christians that they were really killing, it's the majority of them were

Muslims. Yes, they were killing Muslims because they regarded these

Muslims as hypocrites, and according to the Quran, hypocritical Muslims must be executed as well.

And so in chapter 33, verses 60 to 61, it says, if the hypocrites, that's the

Muslims who claim to be Muslims but are not, if the hypocrites, and those in whose heart is a disease, and those who spread false news about the people in Medina, cease not, we shall certainly let you overpower them, so Allah speaks in the plural here, we shall certainly let you,

Muhammad, overpower them, and they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbors, but a little while, a curse that wherever found they shall be seized and killed with a terrible slaughter.

And notice again that those who have opposed Muhammad and the hypocrites, they are to be killed.

Now, before stopping here with the Quran, and maybe we can chat a little bit about this, and then

I can, we can go look into the Hadith literature, but we'll stop this segment with Quran chapter 9, verses 29 to 30.

So what does the Quran say about what Muslims should do with Christians and Jews? And bear in mind that chapter 9 of the

Quran is the last chapter that was revealed. So the Quran is not organized thematically, it's not organized in order thematically, it's actually organized from the largest chapter down to the smallest chapter, but chapter 9 is regarded by Muslim scholars to be the last marching orders that Allah gave to Muhammad before Muhammad died in 632

A .D. So, this is what it says. Fight those from among the people of the book, people of the book is a reference to Jews and Christians, who believe not in Allah, nor in the last day, nor hope as unlawful what

Allah and his messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering a favor and acknowledge their subjection.

Now you have to ask the question, well why are Muslims supposed to fight and kill

Jews and Christians? Well, because they don't believe in Allah, they don't believe in what his messenger has said and what he has decreed, but then it says this, this is the reason why.

The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say the

Messiah is the son of Allah, and that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieve before them,

Allah's curse be on them, how they are turned away. And so, what you see here

Chris, is that Jews and Christians, who do not believe in Islam, like you and I, if we are living in an

Islamic state, the order of the Quran is that they should fight against us, until we believe in Allah and his messenger

Muhammad. If we don't believe in them, and we don't convert, then we have to pay this special poll tax, called the jizya in Arabic, and this is meant to humiliate

Jews and Christians, to feel subdued, and to prompt them to convert to Islam.

And the reason why they are called to fight against the people of the book, notice the reasons given, is number one, the

Jews say that Ezra is the son of Allah, which is one of the weirdest things I have ever read in the

Quran, because there is no record in Judaism, or in the Talmud, or any Jewish literature that ever calls

Ezra the son of God, or the son of Allah. Now it's true that the Christians say the

Messiah is the son of God, the son of Allah, but then the Quran goes on to say that this is just the saying of their own mouth, they are imitating the disbelievers who came before them, and then it calls on Allah to curse them.

So the reason why they should fight us Chris, is because you and I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and in Islam, to claim

Jesus to be the son of God is to commit blasphemy and to associate partners with Allah, which is considered the unpardonable sin in Islam.

And so we can see from all this that one of the reasons why, at least according to the

Quran, the reason why Islam is beyond criticism is because it is believed to be the perfect revelation of God and that that perfect revelation cannot be questioned nor its messenger,

Muhammad. And that is why across the world, just recently, one of my dear friends in London, England, in Speaker's Corner, Hatun Tash was surrounded by a horde of Muslims that were just screaming at her, using profanity against her that I cannot repeat on this program, and it got so heated that the police had to rush in and basically remove her because the police told her, we're doing this for your own safety all because she was calling out the discrepancies in the various Qurans and their different readings.

And so why then did our Muslim friends react like that? Well they reacted like that Chris, because they know what the

Quran says The Quran says that to annoy the Prophet is to annoy God and to annoy

God is to bring judgment and therefore, when they start crying out

Allahu Akbar and try to drown people out, and by the way Chris, Speaker's Corner in London is probably one of the last bastions of free speech in Europe because for over 100 years that area was a place where people could go and just say whatever they wanted, jump on a soapbox and say whatever they wanted

I mean there's been holocaust deniers there, and they're free to say that it's a place of freedom of speech.

But the fact that the police had to remove a Christian from Speaker's Corner because the

Muslims did not like what she was saying about the Quran and Muhammad, that is very disconcerting because that is an undermining of not just your first amendment rights in the

United States but in the United Kingdom, which really is the really when you think about it, the

United Kingdom, the whole Magna Carta, the whole idea of the freedom of the people and the freedom of speech and so forth, was born out of that nation, with the

Magna Carta and then the works of John Locke who heavily inspired Thomas Jefferson in the U .S. So as you can see

Chris, this is why this cannot be allowed to happen and there are forces in the

United Nations particularly the OIC, the organization of the Islamic Corporation that represents 57

Muslim states are pushing the U .N. to criminalize hate speech against Islam and belittling the prophet of Islam and it was also

President Obama speaking at the U .N. who openly declared the future, and this is a direct quote from President Obama, the future does not belong to those who insult the prophet.

Now that is, coming from a President from the United States, at the United Nations, that the future does not belong to those who insult the prophet.

What about insulting Jesus Christ? What about insulting the Buddha? And he even said it in a way that a

Muslim would say it. Absolutely, because when a Muslim speaks about the prophet, they all know it's a reference to Muhammad and Muhammad, I mean

Barack Obama didn't say the future does not belong to those who insult the prophet

Muhammad he said it doesn't belong to those who insult the prophet and of course he was born

Muslim by his own admission, he was born, raised Muslim, his name is Islamic So these are very trying days on top of COVID and everything, there are forces that work on the

U .N. level that are trying to criminalize blasphemy against Muhammad. Well we have to go to our first break right now, if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com, you can ask a question about anything regarding Islam and I'm sure that our guests

Dr. Tony Costa, the Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary will be fully capable of answering most any question on this subject, don't go away we'll be right back, send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

U .S .A., only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, we'll be right back music

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If you just tuned us in this is Chris Arnzen and our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is

Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

We are addressing the theme, Why Islam Cannot Bear Criticism. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com and please give us at least your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you're a Muslim and you're listening and you are starting to become fascinated or interested in or drawn to Christianity and you obviously don't want to draw attention to your identity yet.

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You were speaking before about, well obviously, our theme which is

Why Islam Cannot Bear Criticism but one of the things that you discussed under that heading is the fact that the

Quran identifies Ezra as the son of God according to the

Jews and there is no record of the Jews believing that in the

Hebrew scriptures or elsewhere, not even in the Talmud anywhere. So therefore, it doesn't matter what defies logic and explanation and recorded history the

Quran is the Quran is the Quran and the Quran is Allah's word and cannot be questioned and would that be also very similar to the circumstance they have with a false definition in the

Quran of what the Trinity is, which includes in the Quran Mary as one of the three persons of the

Trinity. Yes, absolutely and it just gets worse and worse

Chris because not only does the Quran accuse Christians of associating partners with God in the sense of believing

Jesus to be God's son and being a member within the Godhead and so forth the

Quran then goes on to say that the three that Christians worship is God and Mary and Jesus, the father, the mother, the child, the son and then the

Quran proceeds to say that when Christians refer to Jesus as the son of God, the

Quran says in chapter 6 verse 101 that what that implies is that God has a wife or a consort and the

Quran says how can he have a son when he has no consort? So the Quran confuses, it doesn't fully understand the concept of Trinity, I mean the word

Trinity does not even appear in the Quran it's just the word Falafel which means three but the

Quran tells us that those three are actually three gods, that is God, Allah, Mary and Jesus.

It also misunderstands the incarnation it says in the Quran as well that the disbelievers say that Allah is the

Messiah, that is to say that God is just a mere human being who gets hungry and thirsty and so forth, whereas Christians don't teach that God is the

Messiah, what they teach is that the Messiah is the God -man, that is to say God became man in the person of Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ was not just one person with one nature, that is an old heresy called monophysitism that the church had to struggle with but we hold that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures, the hypostatic union of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus Christ and so what the

Quran does over and over again is that it misrepresents Christian theology and this calls into question the inspiration of the

Quran because you would at least think, I can understand Mohammed goofing up on these issues

I can understand that. He apparently was an illiterate caravan trader and so he probably wouldn't know much of Christian theology but if the

Quran comes from Allah and it is an eternally preserved word that they believe was in heaven and was sent down then we have to ask the question, how is it that Allah who is supposed to be all -knowing, how does he get these things wrong?

Unless of course the Quran is nothing but the fingerprints of Mohammed which I think it is and his editors and many of his later editors so yeah, we do have this major problem in the

Quran where it misrepresents what we believe as Christians and Muslims of course take the

Quran for granted because hey, it is the word of God and therefore who do you

Christians and Jews think you are challenging that so I am glad you brought up the son of Ezra. We had a professor here in Toronto at the

University of Toronto who is a Muslim scholar and I believe his name was Dr.

Mahmoud and he actually said that this was a very disconcerting verse in the

Quran for him because he said there is no evidence in any

Jewish literature that we know of and by that I mean not just the Hebrew Bible but including the

Talmud, the Mishnah the various Jewish tractates there is nothing in any

Jewish literature that says that Ezra is the son of God and that he is therefore divine in some way none what so ever and I think what happened

Chris, if I was to be pressed on this what I think probably happened was Mohammed when he moved to Medina when he fled to Medina, Medina was a very large

Jewish city a lot of Jews there in Arabia at the time I think what probably happened was some

Jews were playing jokes to him or they were just playing with his head and saying oh yeah we believe

Ezra is the son of God just like the Christians think that Jesus is the son of God, that's my personal opinion and it could have been that Mohammed witnessed an idolatrous practice by somebody professing to be a

Christian where he was worshipping Mary it's possible he may have met there were apparently some

Gnostic cults floating around Arabia, we know that because the Quran quotes from Gnostic sources

Gnostic Gospels, and there was a group called the Calderidians and they were believed to have had a very high view of Mary, but even regardless of that that is not what the

Orthodox Church of 7th Century Arabia believed, the Nicene Creed makes no mention of Mary being part of the

Godhead and neither do Roman Catholics or Orthodox today, no denomination in Christendom today, whether it's

Protestant, Roman Catholic or Orthodox none of them, even those who have a high

Marian view like the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics would never ever say that Mary is one of the persons in the

Godhead OK, we have a listener from Kiev, Ukraine, with a question his name, and I'm probably going to mispronounce this

Oleksandr O -L -E -K -S -A -N -D -R probably a

Ukrainian version of Alexander I'm assuming he says, can Allah, the

God of Islam be compared to God the Father the

God of Christianity, is it the same God the same spiritual being that both Muslims and Christians believe in and a very good question, and I thank you for submitting that,

Oleksandr, but it's interesting that one of the heresies of Rome which is not a part of its dogmatic statements but it's a heresy in their modern catechism which traditionalist

Catholics reject much of what is contained in the modern catechism since it was produced after Vatican II but the

Roman Catholic catechism says that the Muslims adore the same one true

God as they do so that is an interesting phenomenon in the

Catholic catechism but if you could comment on Oleksandr's question Sure, yeah, it's true the

Roman Catholicism and it does come from Vatican II, Chris, it does come from part of the documents that were written down at Vatican II that Muslims adore and worship the same

God that we do which is a very different statement that their predecessors would have said before Vatican II, there's many many

Popes before Vatican II that clearly distinguish the God of Islam from the

Bible In fact, there's a very good possibility that centuries ago you would have been executed as a

Catholic for teaching that Yes, yes, you're right, because they didn't just regard the

Muslims as heretics, they also looked at the Jews as heretics for denying that Christ is

Messiahship and the Trinity but the point here is that the

God of Islam, number one, he's not a father so that's the first thing, he can't be compared to God the Father in the Bible because the

God of Islam is not the father of anyone, he does not have a son he doesn't father anyone, he doesn't beget anyone, the

Quran says he is neither begotten nor does he beget and the God of Islam is unknowable, he's ultimately unknowable therefore you cannot have an intimate personal relationship with him that's why he's not a father, he's a master and the

Muslim is a slave, and so a master -slave relationship is the paradigm in Islam for the creature and the creator and a master doesn't owe anything to his slaves, the master can do whatever he wants, slaves are just tools to be used and so forth, and therefore the

God of Islam is not a father to his people he's not just unknowable, but there's nothing like him, he cannot enter his creation, there's no possibility of the incarnation because he is so transcendent that he is beyond all things, and therefore the

God of Islam is not triune, he's not Father, Son, Holy Spirit he is an absolute unitary entity an absolute unity with no plurality within him and the

God of Islam is also very fickle in his judgement, so for example the

Quran says that Allah is, it says he is Al -Makarim which means he is the chief of the deceivers he deceives, he ploys, and therefore he does not abide by any moral code other than whatever his own will, he can decide whatever he wants, whereas the

God of the Bible is restricted by his own perfect nature, so the Biblical God cannot do everything, so he cannot lie, he cannot sin, he cannot deny himself, he cannot be who he is and therefore there is a major difference between the

Islamic God and the God of the Bible. The Islamic God simply came out of the

Arabic Pantheon and I think that Augustus Strong who wrote the classic

Systematic Theology, Augustus Strong was a good Baptist Augustus Strong came out and actually said that Islam was paganized monotheism, that's how he put it, paganized monotheism.

Well, thank you again Alexander, and by the way it's interesting that when

I had years ago on the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio broadcasting out of Long Island, New York on WNYG and WGBB on West Babylon, I had in the studio with me and David Wood, Bassam Zawadi who

I'm sure you're familiar with. Oh yes, I debated him as well, yes. And Bassam, when I asked him that question, is the

Catholic Catechism correct that you worship and adore the same one true God as they do?

He said, absolutely not, he wouldn't even hesitate but thank you and please

Alexander, keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in Kiev, Ukraine and beyond.

And if there's one thing I've learned about Ukraine is that you never call it The Ukraine as Americans are very prone to do.

We don't say The America, we don't say The England, The Italy, The Germany, The France, so why are we saying

The Ukraine? They call it Ukraine. But anyway, thank you so much for joining us on the air with your question.

And we are going to our midway break right now this is the longer than normal break, so please be patient with us.

We have to have a longer break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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Before we return to our discussion on Islam and why

Islam cannot bear criticism with Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, we just have a few important announcements to make.

Tomorrow and Thursday, the 16th and 17th of September, we have for two days in a row,

Jeff Thomas, who, beginning in 1965, served for over 50 years as pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth, Wales.

He is a prolific writer, having written a number of books for Banner of Truth and also

Reformation Heritage Books. He has spoken at many conferences and events, including many of the events held by the

Banner of Truth. He is such a precious gift to the body of Christ, and such a dear friend, and a guest who loves being interviewed on Iron Troubleman's Iron Radio.

Well, we have him for two days in a row again, and on Wednesday, tomorrow, he's going to be discussing,

The Holy Spirit is God. Here's another difference that we have in our understanding of God from the

Muslims. And day number two, Thursday, he'll be discussing, Asking for the

Holy Spirit. So, mark your calendars for Wednesday and Thursday, September 16th and 17th.

Jeff Thomas, pastor for over 50 years of Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth, Wales, before his retirement, is our guest for those two days.

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Tony Costa on Islam. We are discussing why

Islam cannot tolerate or bear criticism.

And our email address, as I said, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. We have Denise in Toronto, Canada.

If Islam sees itself as being beyond criticism, what future can there be in terms of addressing the holes in the narrative?

Well, the way Islam responds to that is in three ways. Deny, deny, deny.

It can't deal with it because it will never acknowledge it. Now there are some Muslims who are objective in their analysis, and those who are serious about the truth and the evidence will dig deeper.

And those who have, have actually left Islam. There are Muslims who are leaving

Islam because of this whole issue about the preservation of the Quran being challenged.

And so if they are serious about the facts and the truth, then they will look into it.

And what we have found is that Muslims feel that they've been hacked by the religious scholars who've been telling them the same model, the

Quran is the preserved text, it's never been changed. And when they find that that is just not the case, a lot of these

Muslims just feel that they've been deceived all these years. So the way it works is the majority of Muslim leaders today will just simply maintain the same narrative.

They will not change that narrative. But our hope is that through ministries like this, Iron Sharpens Iron, and also various ministries on YouTube and so forth, we are bringing this out to the floor.

Muslims are being exposed to this and they're looking into it for themselves. And here's the thing. We're not getting this from second -hand sources.

This information comes from the Islamic sources themselves. In other words, we did not write these

Qurans. These were published by Muslim scholars. And so when we look at the evidence, and if we truly are truth -seekers, then as old

Socrates used to say, follow the truth wherever it leads you, and hopefully it leads you right back to, again, the truth itself.

So I don't think there's, I think that the years down the road are going to be very challenging for many

Muslims who hold to the traditional narrative. Thank you, Denise, in Toronto, Canada.

Please keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and spreading the word in Canada and beyond.

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, one thing confuses me greatly about strict,

Quranically faithful Muslims and their silence over Ilan Omar of Minnesota and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan.

Both these women are very prominent in the media. Both claim to be Muslims, and Ilan Omar presents herself even as a strict

Muslim, wearing head covering and even the garb and so on. Why is it that these two feminists, who are pro -abortion and pro -homosexual, are able to present themselves publicly as Muslims, and yet the outcry from those

Quranically observant Muslims is deafening? In other words, the silence is deafening,

I'm assuming that CJ means. Right, right. Well, I think in order to understand that, you need to understand there's a doctrine in Islam called

Darura, D -A -R -R -U -R -A. It's called the principle of necessity. And what that principle says is that it is not considered a sin to commit something in Islam, which would regularly be committed a sin, if it will bring about a greater cause.

In other words, if you could lie or deceive or if you could do something that is forbidden, technically forbidden in Islam, to use that thing to achieve the end goal of bringing

Islam to the state that is converting, let's say, the United States in this case, into an

Islamic state, a caliphate, if you will, then those things are permissible. I think that Ilan Omar and Rashid are very,

I think they're very wicked people. They are deceptive. They are devious. And if you remember, we just celebrated the anniversary of 9 -11 in New York City, and Ilan Omar's famous quip that someone did something.

So this type of rhetoric that you see going on with Rashid and Ilan Omar, I mean, it's been confirmed that she even married her brother, her own brother, to gain status in the

United States. But again, this is forbidden in Islam. But if it's done with the purpose of deceiving to promote the goal of Islam or to promote the

Islamic hegemony over the world, then certain things that are impermissible are permissible as long as you achieve that great goal in the end.

So as the communists used to say, by whatever means necessary, the end shall justify the means.

And that's how Islam operates, very similar to that of communism. But you don't believe that these women are truly faithful to the

Quran, do you? I mean, their rhetoric is very often in polar opposite.

I'm assuming even presenting themselves as loud vociferous feminists, that alone, let alone the abortion and pro -homosexuality, if they were in a land where Sharia law was established, they could get themselves in serious trouble if not even executed.

For sure. But you see, if they don't use that rhetoric, then they're not going to stay in power, at least not in the

Democratic Party or in the Democratic -supported states. But the important thing to understand here,

Chris, is that Ilhan Omar is very chummy with CARE, the Council of American Islamic Relations.

And CARE has made it very clear that one of their hopes is that the United States one day will become a

Sharia state, that it will come under the Sharia law. And same with, if you look at someone like Linda Sarsour, who wears the hijab and who is a self -proclaimed feminist with the

V2 movement, but she is a committed Muslim. Yes, she'll talk about abortion, she'll talk about homosexuality.

But you see, Chris, the whole point is this. Once Islam takes over the land, then they basically have achieved their end purpose and everything changes.

So the fact that they will chummy up themselves with CARE, which is a

Hamas -supported lobby front, by the way, they're supported by Hamas, they will never condemn

Hamas, it goes to show that they are strategically moving in the government of the

United States with the purpose, and I really believe this, with the purpose of achieving an

Islamic state in the end. So the end, in this case, will justify the means. That is why many

Muslims, you'll notice, will not criticize them or call them out as apostates. Well, do you think that they're just being used as pawns?

I mean, I find it hard to believe that they don't really believe their own leftist rhetoric.

Yeah, they may be used as pawns. I mean, that's definitely a possibility. But the fact that these two women are still very much in support of Islam, they will not condemn

Islam, they will not condemn Islamic terrorism. In fact, Ilhan Omar said the problem with the United States is not

Islamic extremism, the problem with the United States is white men. So they're very much like the social justice movement, very anti -white, anti -colonial past, and very anti -police and against the founders of the

United States and so forth. But Islam and social justice go hand in hand,

Chris. You know, they're like the old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And so they may be used as pawns.

That's a possibility. But I think that these women, deep down in their hearts, are committed Muslims. Okay, we have

Clinton from Toronto, Canada, another fellow

Canadian, who says, oh, and this person,

Clinton, says that he's in your new class. Yes, yes, he's one of my students at the seminar.

And regarding the hypostatic union, I recently was stumped by a

Muslim friend who said that if Jesus is fully God and fully man, if Jesus has two separate and distinct natures, how do we explain the fact that Jesus said that only the

Father in Heaven knows the last day? If Jesus is fully God, how is it possible that he didn't know?

Is it possible for God to limit his knowledge? Yeah, well, because Jesus Christ is both

God and man, there are times in Scripture where Jesus obviously functions in his human capacity.

Obviously, when Jesus weeps, when Jesus gets hungry, when

Jesus thirsts, and also the fact that Jesus, as a human being, his knowledge would have only been human knowledge.

It was perfect human knowledge, but it was still human knowledge. Now, the early church was very careful to define these types of terms.

They believed that Christ had two wills. There was a heresy called monotheism in the early church that said

Jesus Christ only had one will, and it was the divine will. And the church saw that as heresy because of the fact that Jesus Christ had two natures.

The belief was that if he had two natures, then there would be a divine will, but there would also be a human will.

We see that in the Garden of Gethsemane. Not my will be done, but thy will be done. In other words,

Jesus differentiates his human will, perfect human will, from that of the divine will of the Father, which in the

Divine Age, obviously, he's in unison. So the way that Mark 13 .32 has been understood by early

Christians is that Jesus speaks in the capacity of his humanity. That's one interpretation.

And then the other interpretation, I believe, is one that I think Augustine gave. And Augustine basically said that what

Jesus does there is he accommodates himself to the ignorance of the disciples.

That is to say, he accommodates himself and speaks on their human level.

So an example that he gives is that of Genesis 18, where the angel of Yahweh appears to Abraham and speaks with him, and that angel of Yahweh is

Yahweh himself. We believe that is the pre -incarnate Christ. And he goes on to say to Abraham, I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah and see if this thing that has been reported is true, their iniquity, their sin, and if not, then

I will know. And there, God there in the person of the pre -incarnate

Christ feigns ignorance there with Abraham. In other words, he acts on a very human level and acts like he doesn't know and he's going to go see if it's exactly as it's been reported.

And then in Genesis 22, when Abraham offers up Isaac, and then the angel of the

Lord cries out of heaven and says, do not lay a hand on the lad, now

I know that you fear God. Well, didn't God already know that Abraham would not?

Did God already know that he would stop Abraham? So there are examples where you have

God almost acting as if he's ignorant, or he's not so much ignorant, but he speaks as if he's feigning ignorance.

And so that's one interpretation that Augustine gives, that Jesus there simply adapts himself to the situation with his disciples.

So it's either that, or what we have here is an example of Jesus speaking in the capacity of his humanity, which, of course, in terms of his humanity, he's not omnipresent, he's not omniscient because his human nature is finite, but in his divine nature, most definitely the

Lord Jesus has complete omniscience. Yes, that's definitely one of the most baffling aspects of Christian doctrine, the limitations that Christ put upon himself, that he even learned when he was growing up as a child and things like that.

And those things leave us baffled. But anyway, there is much mystery attached to Christian doctrine, when it comes to especially something like the hypostatic union.

You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go to our final break right now, so I don't have to interrupt you mid -sentence. So, if anybody else wants to join us on the air, please send in your questions now.

chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com And please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we're going to be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Tony Costa and our discussion on Islam.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. And if you have a question for Dr. Tony Costa, we are rapidly running out of time, so please send it in immediately to chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the U .S .A., and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's see, we have R .J. in White Plains, New York.

And R .J. asks, Which sect of Islam is the dominant sect of immigrants here in the

United States? And is it a peaceful sect, or is it one more prone to violence when overseas?

The primary group or denomination or sect of Islam that is in the United States are the

Sunnis, Sunni Islam, which comprises about 85 % of the world's Muslims. And the theology of Sunni Islam is the theology of Jihad as well.

And so, that is not to say that there aren't some Muslims in the United States that are peaceful and just want to live and let live, and they want to provide for their families and so forth.

But if they are going to be consistent with the Quran and with the Hadith and with the pattern of Muhammad and his examples, then they are called to wage

Jihad. And that Jihad can take several forms when they're in the minority. It becomes a

Jihad of the mind and the Jihad of the pen, where they could write and defend

Islam against Christianity. But it could also involve Jihad in manipulating

Western laws to advance Islam. And so, using Western laws to progress

Islam, building mosques and providing for Muslim information centers and so forth.

And so, Jihad doesn't just mean taking up the sword or taking up weaponry. Jihad means struggle.

And that struggle can involve, as we've just discussed previously, entering into the government on both the municipal, state, and federal levels.

It could also involve using groups like CARE to promote the cause of Islam and to use words like Islamophobia to shut down any critique of Islam.

So, what we're doing right now on this radio program would be considered by some

Muslims to be Islamophobic, even though we're just quoting their own sources and using sources that they themselves would acknowledge to be authoritative.

I was actually pleasantly surprised that Bassam Zawadi, who is no moderate or liberal

Muslim, was actually on my show when he was on having a cordial debate with David Wood on my show years ago.

He said during that debate that he believed that those that depart from Islam should be executed, and of course he was speaking of, and he did explain this in a legal way that would be under Sharia, in a land where Sharia law was established.

He didn't believe in vigilantism or anything like that, or just killing somebody in cold blood in your backyard, but he did believe that they were worthy of death.

But, that's not the thing I was pleasantly surprised about. The thing I was pleasantly surprised about was that he wrote a very nice commendation for my show, stating that even though I have very often had guests on who were vociferous opponents of Islam, he believed that he was treated very fairly as a guest, and believed that the program was worth the attention of Muslims, and the participation by Muslims.

So, I was quite pleasantly surprised by that. Yeah, he is, as I said before,

Bassam is a nice fellow. I had the chance to debate him in Toronto, and what

I like about him is at least he is brutally honest with you. He is a straight shooter in that regard, and he is one of those

Muslims that are more consistent than not. So, I do appreciate at least his honesty.

And we have, let's see, Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who wants to know,

Do the Quran -only Muslims still exist? I find it hard to believe that they could exist for a long time, being such a tiny minority who reject the

Hadith as binding upon their lives, when the vast majority of Muslims would find that quite heretical.

Yes, there are Quran -only Muslims known as Qurani, and they are a small group.

What is the name of them? Qurani. Oh, Qurani, okay. Qurani, and they hold only to the

Quran, so they have a form of Sola Scriptura. It's only the

Quran, and nothing but the Quran, and it's the highest authority. However, they would also view

Sunni Muslims as committing shirk, that is, the unforgivable sin of associating partners with Allah, because when the

Quran -only Muslims, when they say the Shahada, which is the Islamic confession, the

Islamic confession, the standard Islamic confession is, La ilaha illallah Muhammad Rasulullah, but what they would say is,

No, you cannot say that. What you say is, La ilaha illallah. There is no god but Allah. But what the

Sunnis do is they say, Muhammad Rasulullah, they add, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And the

Qurani argue, and I tend to agree with them, that that is shirk, because what you're doing is you're associating

Muhammad with Allah. And even grammatically, they're using a conjunction. The word ander is called the conjunction of companionship, the conjunction of partnership.

And so they would argue that if it's not in the Quran, then we shouldn't do it. They don't believe in praying five times a day, because the

Quran doesn't say to pray five times a day. That comes from the Hadith. So they pray three times a day, as the

Quran mandates. Now, there is a form of, in Judaism, Chris, I don't know if you know this, but there is a small jurist act called the

Karaites. And the Karaites are the same. They say, Only the Hebrew Bible is our authority.

We don't follow the Talmud. We don't follow the Mishnah. And they're also considered heretical by Rabbinic Jews.

Wow. Would they be considered a sect of Hasidic Jew, or who are they?

Well, they've been around for quite a while. They've been around before the Hasidics. And they're like Orthodox Jews, but they don't hold to the

Talmud. They're around, and I think there's a good portion of them, I believe, in New York, in New York City.

And they are Bible -only. They are like sola scriptura

Jews. Wow. They only hold to the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible, and anything outside of it they do not follow.

Yes, and it might interest our listeners to know, I don't know for certain whether you even know this or not, but the very first debate that Dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries had with a Muslim was a debate

I organized on Long Island at the church that was at that time named the

Bible Baptist Church of Sias at Long Island. It no longer exists under that name.

And the debate was with Hamza Abdul Malik, who at the time was a

Sunni Muslim, but now he is a Quran -only Muslim, or as you have identified them as, a

Qurani. And so I think that's quite interesting. James does not include that as his first Muslim debate because he knew close to nothing about Islam when he participated in that debate.

And he defended a Christian teaching the deity of Christ by necessity because he was not very familiar with a lot of things that Muslims believe and he was not very familiar with the

Quran at the time. Now he's quite a Quranic scholar, having read the

Quran multiple times and even learning Arabic and all kinds of things. But anyway,

I just thought I'd throw that out there. Well, I want to give you five minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today when it comes to this subject.

And then if we have time, we'll take a couple more questions. Yeah, well, maybe in our next show together,

Chris, we'll take up the Hadith. We only covered the Quran today on criticism against Islam, so maybe we'll make that part two,

Lord willing. So what we've seen in the Quran is that criticism of Muhammad is forbidden.

And not just criticism of Muhammad, but if you criticize Muhammad, you criticize Allah. Muslims are not to dispute on what

Muhammad has decreed on any given matter. They're not allowed to question it for fear of being punished and rejected and sent into hellfire.

How different is that from our God in the Bible? How different is that from the God who said in Isaiah 118,

Come, let us reason together, says the Lord, even though your sins are red as scarlet, they shall be white as wool, even though they're red as crimson, they shall be white as snow.

God comes and He invites us to come and reason with Him. God did not rebuke Job for asking questions.

God simply asked Job to consider who he was in relationship with Him, and that Job, by virtue of his humanity, spoke dark things that he did not know about, and he spoke about things that were too lofty for him.

But God did not punish Job or rebuke him. God blessed him double in the end of his trivial and tribulation.

The other thing we should also bear in mind is that when the prophet Jeremiah wept and sought God's face and asked for mercy against Jerusalem, you will notice that Jeremiah would complain and set his case before the

Lord. The Lord did not rebuke him or punish him or threaten to banish him into hell because he asked him questions.

Our God is big enough to take criticism because God made us to be inquiring minds, and the

Lord allows us to ask questions. We're not to fear questions because the truth will set us free.

But any movement that tells you you cannot question the prophet, you cannot question what he says on any given matter, that is a sign of danger.

And so if you cannot use your God -given mind to think and to critically analyze and to ask questions, then you're not dealing with something that is born out of God.

God is truth, and Jesus said, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

And so it's my prayer and hope that you can spot that major difference. Our God has welcomed us to come and to reason and to lay our case before him.

But the God of Islam tells us we have no right to ask questions of him or to ask questions of what his prophet decides.

And that, I say, is something that goes against the idea of all free -thinking men and women.

And in fact, everyone who is in a church that professes to be

Christian and does not permit such questioning, they should run for the hills from that place.

Exactly. Because even the Apostle Paul commended the Bereans for questioning him and testing his words to make sure that they were in harmony with the

Scriptures. Yep. So if the Apostle Paul was willing to do that, there's no reason on earth why any

Christian should be opposed to that.

We have time for a couple more questions from listeners.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says, In your opinion, who would be the most ideal representations of Islam in the apologetic world?

And who have you not debated that you would love to debate? Well, I have debated

Dr. Shabir Ali several times, at least 10 or 11 times or so, and he's also in Toronto, so I know him quite well.

He was actually the first person I ever engaged in public debate back in 1992. And I've debated some leading

Muslim apologists like Bassem Zawadi and a number of others.

I can't even keep count of the ones I've debated. I would have liked to debate, if I could,

I think it would be fun to debate Zakir Naik, the Muslim apologist in India. And David Webb and I and others have basically put out the challenge to him that we are willing to debate him any time, any place.

And what we keep getting is, well, the Indian government apparently won't let you have a debate there unless you're an

Indian citizen, which makes no sense to me. And also, Zakir Naik said that he would only do debates where you can get, he said unless you get hundreds of thousands of people attending.

Well, we can do that online as well. In fact, you can get more than 100 ,000 online if we can host a debate with him.

And in terms of who most represents Islam, well, I think the most consistent Muslims, I think people like Bassem Zawadi is an example of a consistent

Muslim. Shabir is beginning to waffle on a number of issues.

And most Muslims I'm seeing today are beginning to waffle. Then you've got extremes like Mohammad Hijab.

Mohammad Hijab is an example of an extreme radical Muslim who takes his faith seriously and very literally.

And so, yeah, I think Zakir Naik would be someone I'd like to debate in the future if possible.

And we have, let's see here. We have,

I was just looking at a fascinating question that I wanted to read and I can't find it now.

Let's see. Oh, Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. He says, I have heard former

Christians who apostatized and converted to Islam. Have there been any

Jews who have converted to Islam who have become apologists for Islam?

Well, there are Jews who have converted to Islam. I don't know any of them personally or on social media that are famous apologists for Islam.

That I don't know. Are they apologists at all? Are they like in that field?

Not that I know of. Not that I know of. For example, in the land of Israel, I don't know of any Jewish apologists there.

Or, I don't really know any Jewish apologists. But I have heard of Jews who have converted to Islam. There is one in particular that comes to mind and his name,

I can't recall his name at the moment. But there are very, very few in between.

Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information. I know that the

Toronto Baptist Seminary's website is tbs .edu. tbs .edu

And I think that you primarily want people to go to Facebook to find out more information on you these days.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beginning at the end of this month, I'm going to be teaching two new online courses.

They're a continuing education course, which means you don't have to do any coursework. It's just to expand your knowledge.

We're doing one on Wednesday nights on how to read the Bible. And they'll run for eight

Wednesdays from 630 to 920. And then on Sunday nights, we're going to be doing a course on Christianity and current affairs.

So we're basically looking at world conditions right now, particularly in the

United States, as you guys are beginning to move towards an election in November. I think a lot of things are going to flare up down there.

And so this course is designed to basically assess the world situation through biblical lenses and to keep ourselves grounded in Christ and in Scripture.

So more information for that, go to Facebook, type Tony Costa on Facebook, and it'll be posted there.

Well, I want to thank you so much, Dr. Costa, for, as always, doing a great job on the show. I want to thank everybody who listened, and I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater