Was Jesus A False Prophet? Answering Mormons

In Matthew 16, Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived.

Who are the Pharisees of our day? This strong hold of sort of whiteness and white identity and pristineness is really part of what keeps us from making progress.

We need to do better. The church, rich in theological scholarship, has lingered in academic sanctuaries and ivory towers, failing to translate its lofty doctrines into a tangible and practical cultural apologetic.

At the Worldview Youth Academy we bridge this critical gap. Here theological depth is not an end in itself but a means to engage with contemporary cultural issues for the glory of God and the expansion of his kingdom.

Our mission is to cultivate thinkers who can articulate and apply Christian truths within contemporary societal challenges.

So embrace this call to worship God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind.

We will do better as this next generation tears down the idols of our modern culture and works to build a brighter future toward Christendom 2 .0.

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle, Nick. That's a joke,

Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord is God. There is no other besides him.

Know therefore today and lay it to your heart that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath.

There is no other. That's Deuteronomy chapter 4, verses 35 and 39.

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So here we go. That's Luke the Bear. What up? I'm Jeff the Calm of the Ninja. And that's Zachary Conover. Hey, guys.

Director of Communications for EAN. Guess what, y 'all? What? We were notified by Mr.

Green, Gabe Green, that according to the show notes, this is our official 500th, 500th, 100th, 500, it's the 500th, it's 100th episode of Apologia Radio.

What's up? Praise the Lord. 500, y 'all. It's like that gift where the guys are standing in a circle and it's like, oh, like that.

Just standing there like all surprised and puzzled. Smooth 500 episodes of Apologia Radio.

It's been a real honor to be doing this and grateful the Lord has given us this opportunity to just speak the gospel, teach the gospel, and bring the word of God into collision with everything that opposes it.

We're grateful to God for all of you who have shared the content, been a part of this with us since the very beginning.

We're very, very thankful and humbled to be part of something so great that God has used to transform so many lives.

So it's a very humbling thing. 500 is a big deal. And so we are so, so grateful to God to be a part of this.

So 500th episode, we should do something on Mormonism. Why not? If you look back in the archives of Apologia Studios and look back at some of the earliest videos, not the best editing skills, not the highest quality, but God used those videos.

Man, it was fun to listen to. Yeah. The on the street evangelism. Some of the videos were just literally just a black slide with the audio that we put into the slide.

It wasn't just a black. It was like a... Yeah. Oh, yeah. Little wavy stuff. Little wings. Like an amoeba or something?

Yeah. That was me just fooling around with the editing software. I was like, this looks cool. This will work. But God used that stuff to really transform a lot of people's lives and to bring the gospel to the

Mormons. And so we're grateful for that. That's how it all started. Some of those are fun to watch. But 500, let's do something on Mormonism.

So we're going to leap right into it today, everybody. And we talked about this last week, actually.

So if you haven't seen this yet, guys, definitely, definitely go back and watch it. So if you're jumping into this now, we just recently did sort of a four or five part series in Apology Radio where we went through the

Great Tribulation, the Olivet Discourse, and we sort of did it from the bottom all the way up.

So we started in the Old Testament and then moved our way into the Great Tribulation. Not completely comprehensive, admittedly.

I mean, it took me like a year and a half or two years to get through Matthew 24 at church. And those are like hour, hour and a half long sermons.

And so it wasn't comprehensive, but we did touch on some of the major issues. So we think that'll be a benefit to everybody. And on the last episode, you made the point when

I said, you know, Mormons will use this on the street. When you're talking to them saying

Joseph Smith had false prophecies, they'll say, well, oh, also Jesus had false prophecies. So they're both false prophets.

And you were like, that's bewildering to me. Like why would you want to put that on yourself? Yeah, super perplexing because it just, the foundation of why your religion exists in the first place just kind of begins to crumble.

If the restoration of the church is the ultimate thing in Mormonism, the priesthood authority, the prophetic word, if all of that needs to be given back, like that's not so great for you if what's given back is based on a lie, right?

Like what came before it, if that word isn't sure and reliable, then why is the restored word reliable too, if that's what's being restored?

It's desperation is what it is. And so we're going to get into engaging with a fairly popular online

Mormon apologist. And I'll say at the start of this, his name is Colton Miller. I actually respect this guy.

I do. I respect this guy. Because of his beard? Well, the beard is beautiful. Colton, if you see this, you have an epic beard.

It is awesome. We love it. I mean, his beard is as epic as his heresy. That's right.

It's - His hair -esy? His hair -esy. It's as good as bad are his arguments. Yes. So phenomenal beard.

Great job, Colton. Really respect Colton. And here's why I respect him. Listening to Colton reminds me of the kind of conversations that I used to have with Mormons back in the 90s, early 2000s, where Mormons were willing at the time to take you to task and to go to the

Bible and to try to reason from scripture and those sorts of things. It's not such a common experience today on the street with the modern

Mormon. And so it's refreshing, is what I'm saying. I really like Colton because he is refreshing and that he tries to go to the

Bible to make his arguments. Now, I think, of course, he falls flat. He contradicts himself. He mangles the text in many, many of his videos.

I mean, it is really, really bad. But I do respect the man because he's trying to make his case from scripture many times.

And he seems to believe what Mormon prophets have taught historically. Yeah. And so I like him. I like Colton a lot.

A lot more respect for his methodology and his approach than many of the modern, younger

Mormon apologists. I don't know. You do your thing. I'll believe some words you're saying. I love the squishiness.

Yeah. A ton of ad hominem and mockery and things like that. And so I like this guy a lot.

Colton, if you watch this, high level of respect for you. Really refreshing. Brings me back to the old days of engaging with the

Mormon friends on the street and having conversations with them that were meaningful conversations. Matter of fact, one of our close

Mormon friends was a Mormon apologist, and listening to Colton reminds me of engaging with him on the street back in the late, later 90s, where we wanted to get to the

Bible and go through the Bible, make arguments. And the thing is, too, at the same time, as we start to engage with this, and we're going to have a shorter show today, hopefully.

We really got to try. We got to go fast because I got counseling as a pastor right after this. What's familiar to me, what's familiar to me with this is that the arguments that he's using trying to go to the scriptures are the same arguments back in the late 90s when

I was on the street at the temple in Mesa, Arizona. So they're all the same. Nothing new here. It's all the same stuff.

You know, Joseph Smith's false prophet, well, then Jesus is a false prophet too. Isaiah 4310, oh, that's talking about false gods.

It's all the same stuff, but it's refreshing. I feel like it's like the old school days. And so I like Colton.

He's getting a lot of traction, actually. He gets a lot of views on his videos. And I think, respect to him,

I think the reason why Colton gets so many views and gets so much traction amongst

Mormons, amongst Latter -day Saints, is because Colton is actually trying to provide answers from the

Bible. And so he's trying at least to engage with the arguments that are being made, instead of waving the hand, engaging in mockery, pretending like the argument doesn't exist.

And I think that's why Mormons probably appreciate him, because they're at least getting something. They're getting something in terms of a response.

Now I think, as you're going to see, really, really bad argumentation, but at least it's an attempt to engage.

And I love that about him. We were having a harder and harder time on the street with the average

Mormon, even getting them to stop to converse with us. Used to be back in the day, 1996, my first time at the

Mormon Temple in Mesa, Arizona, you'd go out there, if they knew that you were a Christian coming to engage with them, you would be surrounded, surrounded by 10, 12, 15, even 20

Mormons, missionaries, return missionaries, young Mormons, old Mormons, across the whole spectrum.

They would just surround the Christian, and they'd want to engage. And so I find this very refreshing. And now you've got to taunt them to get them to engage.

It's hard to get them to stop and engage. And so, can I just tell you one thing? Over the years, we've had many people come to Apologia Church and show up on the sidewalk and want to fight.

We've had cults come and stand on the sidewalk. We've had Antifa come. We've had radical leftists and liberals come.

Pro -aborts. Pro -aborts. And what's amazing is when they show up at Apologia Church, our church comes out of the doors and goes, oh wee, look, it's fish coming to the boat.

They descend on them, and let's get into it. We have to be like, hey guys, church is starting, we're starting to worship now, guys, let's come on in.

And it's the kids too. Get their number. The kids are out there wanting to throw down. Get their number and talk later. Yeah, take them to dinner or something.

And so, that's kind of like, our heart and mindset is like, this is a great opportunity to reach somebody who's lost.

And so, our church goes out to them and engages with them. And a lot of times, I think that actually scares them off, because they're like, whoa,

I wasn't prepared for this. And so, it's harder and harder, and we would love to have more of these kind of conversations with Mormons.

So, we're just going to try to go through two videos today from Colton. He's got tons of content.

I love to engage with a bunch of it. And today, we're going to do one on if Joseph Smith's a false prophet, then

Jesus is a false prophet. And then, the other one, we're going to do on Isaiah 4310. And so, let's do the first one.

This is on... This is on... Wait.

Hold on. How did I lose it? Hold on, guys. Sorry. Max. It's these

Max. It's the Max. Max problems. You know what I mean? I wanted to do the eschatology one first, and it just sort of disappeared.

Nope. That's the wrong one. Isaiah 4310. Okay. Let's do...

All right. All right. Do this for me while I find the video. Explain to the audience,

Deuteronomy 18, 20 -22, the test of a prophet. That would be, I think, a valuable thing to do before we spring into the discussion with Colton.

Deuteronomy 18, 20 -22. So, there's two chapters in Deuteronomy that speak about the test of a false prophet.

And in Deuteronomy 13, somewhat of a counterpart verse, if a prophet arises among you or a dreamer of dreams or a seer of visions, and he has signs and wonders, his ministry looks legit, he's got following and clout and plausibility even.

If he leads you after another god, then you should reject him as a false prophet. So that's the first test of a prophet.

But then again, in Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have the other test there, which the word that the prophet has spoken, if it doesn't come to pass, then you should reject it.

So the idea there is that a prophet speaking for God is given revelation from the one true

God. And so, the testimony of that message is guarded, and when a prophet speaks in the name of the

Lord, the text says, if the word does not come to pass or come true, then you can know that that is a word that the

Lord has not spoken, the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Because the question is asked, how may we know that this is a word that the

Lord has spoken? Well, here's a way to test it. If the prophet gives a prophecy in the name of the

Lord, if he is speaking for God, and that prophecy does not come to pass, as he said, then reject the testimony.

It's not of God. So the standard for biblical prophet is 100 % perfect prophetic fulfillment.

If the word does not come to pass, that's how you know that God didn't speak it. And actually the text says here in verse 20, that the consequence or the punishment for a false prophet is supposed to be death.

That's how serious a crime it is to put words in the mouth of God and to claim to be sent by God, and God says, here's the test you apply.

If they prophesy, they give you a word in the name of the Lord, it's gonna happen, this is gonna happen in the future, and it doesn't come to pass, that's how you know with certainty this man was not sent from God.

And the reason why is because the God of the Bible is totally sovereign. He controls all things, so he can say, I'm the one who controls the future, my prophets are gonna know the future because I'm the one that controls it.

And so if somebody fails in the prophecy, you know they're not from the true God, they're not from the sovereign God. That's the standard.

Which means that Jesus, yes, is held to that standard. If he has a false prophecy, doesn't matter how much you like him, doesn't matter how much you like his teaching, if Jesus gave false prophecy,

Jesus is a false prophet. That's the biblical standard and test. And so here's what Colton says. If a prophet is a false prophet, then so is

Jesus. In Doctrine and Covenants section 84 verses 4 through 5, it says,

Even Brigham Young and some other early leaders of the church understood this to mean that the temple would literally be built in their generation, meaning like 80 years or something.

Brigham Young says, But what's interesting is in Matthew chapter 24, where Jesus is teaching about him coming back again, and all the things that need to happen preceding him coming, he says in verse 34,

Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.

And what's really interesting is Paul took this hook, line, and sinker to understand or mean that it was literally going to happen in his generation, meaning like probably 80 years or something.

In 1 Thessalonians 4 verses 15 through 17, Paul says,

Here's the thing. Not everybody interprets what Jesus said in Matthew 24 the same way.

And if they get an opportunity to interpret those scriptures differently, then we certainly have the opportunity to interpret

Joseph Smith's prophecy of the temple being built in independence differently. Can we stop it there for just a second?

We get the opportunity to interpret it differently. Not in Mormonism, you don't. Not if that man was a prophet of God.

And not if the other prophets and apostles reaffirm the prophecy from D &C 84. Right.

It's very easy. I know we talk about this all the time, but in conversing with the average Mormon, like putting their theology in a fight with Jesus, in the words of Christ, right?

Like showing, okay, here's what Joseph said. Here's what Jesus says. Now, which one do I believe? If we're going to take the position that Brigham Young, who is a prophet of the

Mormon church, received revelation from God, and that revelation from God was what he understood to take place in that generation, right?

The temple would be built there in that. Who are you as a Mormon to say differently than your prophet?

Yeah, I'm going to reinterpret them. That's a good point. And so, we'll get to the question of Jesus and this generation.

We've already done, like I said, four shows on it. All I'll say at the front of this is that Jesus said it.

He meant it. All those things took place on time and as planned, exactly as Jesus said. And so, we're not waiting for a future

Great Tribulation, fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse, and all those things up to verse 34. Jesus said it.

It was that generation. By the way, biblical generation is generally considered to be 40 years, and not 80 years.

It's 40 years. But all that, let's put that in the back end for just a moment.

In terms of like, well, we get to interpret it just sort of freely and however we want. The problem you have to face is that other inspired

Mormon prophets and apostles reaffirm what Joseph Smith said about Jackson County, Missouri and the temple being built in that generation.

They actually amplify it. They specify, they get more detailed towards it.

And so, you don't know, you don't just get to play fast and loose with the prophecy of Joseph Smith because it's not just one place he said it.

He says it. He says it again. He says it again. And then the other Mormon prophets and apostles, after Joseph even dies, are anticipating it's got to be any moment now because he prophesied this generation.

Some of you guys have died. Some of you guys are still alive. It's going to be any moment. Like, they didn't take your view of we can just sort of have

Joseph's prophecy be this malleable thing. They understood that it was fixed. They understood that it was about them.

They understood that they were all dying off and it was going to happen at any moment. And so, no, you don't just get to interpret it any way you want as the average lay

Mormon because your prophets and apostles actually amplified the prophecy and got specific with it.

And so, their interpretation, far different than yours. They didn't see it as malleable. They saw it as something that was absolutely going to happen.

It was a word from the Lord. And so, that's my first response. We're going to go through some of those prophecies here in just a moment.

Can we say one thing about the Thessalonians passage? I'm sure you want to say more about this too, but the claim that, well,

Paul swallowed this line from Jesus, hook, line, and sinker. Goodness.

Like the denigrating way they speak about, yeah. Well, okay. There's a lot of things you could say. As if it's bait.

There's a lot of things you could say here. But I think maybe this would be the most helpful for people to see.

In the Thessalonians passage, in the book of 1 Thessalonians, Paul addresses both what

Jesus is addressing in Matthew chapter 24, the first century destruction and judgment upon Jerusalem.

But the question of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 is regarding believers in the Lord that have fallen asleep.

And in the church, there was some, you know, tumultuous underpinnings about, okay, what's going to happen?

Has the return of the Lord come yet in terms of, you know, the resurrection? Because that's what the passage in 1 Thessalonians 4 is talking about.

It's talking about the resurrection of the just and the unjust. But that doesn't mean that Paul doesn't distinguish that, right?

The final coming of Christ with the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century. It says in 1

Thessalonians chapter 2, verse 15 and reading, well, I'll read in 14. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the

Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and drove us out and displease God and oppose all mankind.

In verse 16, by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved.

So as always to fill up the measure of their sins, but wrath has come upon them at last.

So there's a recognition in the mind of Paul that there is wrath coming upon this generation.

But then the question of the final coming of the Lord Jesus in 1 Thessalonians 4 has to do with believers in the

Lord that have fallen asleep. What's going to happen when Christ comes back finally, and there is a resurrection of all things.

So it's just important, I think, to point out that Paul didn't swallow this hook, line, and sinker about reinterpreting the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Proof is in the text that he actually distinguishes those two historical events. Yeah. I mean, that language, it's like, it's suggesting that Christ was being deceptive or I don't even like,

I don't understand why he'd use that terminology, but yeah, it's like somehow the authors of scripture disagree with one another that God, and this is a

Mormon assumption that God can't speak clearly in his word and get his revelation across to his mouthpieces in a way that can be understood, comprehended, and applied.

Unless we're talking about the Mormon prophets, because they're a restoration of that.

But even then, like you said, who is he to reinterpret the words of his divine mouthpieces?

And it is clear that yes, the New Testament authors under the inspiration, under divine inspiration, yes, they did believe without question that there was a soon coming judgment of Christ upon Jerusalem before they all died.

There's no question about that. Matthew chapter 10, Jesus tells the disciples, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel till the

Son of Man comes. Matthew 16, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they've seen the

Son of Man coming in his kingdom. This generation will not pass away until all these things take place. The judgment coming of Christ was going to occur in that generation before they all died.

There's no question. And you see that moving throughout the New Testament in a number of different passages. Yes, you can look at the book of Revelation itself, which

I would make a very strong biblical and historical argument was written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70

AD. I think that it's a compelling argument that comes from both Scripture and history itself, church history, that it was written before the destruction of Jerusalem.

You see in Revelation the clear indication that these things are soon to take place.

Don't seal up the prophecy. These things are about to happen, those sorts of things.

But you also see it even in the Acts of the Apostles in the martyrdom of Stephen.

Listen to what Stephen says before he's martyred. In Acts chapter 6, this is the accusation that was made against Stephen.

That's interesting now, we're in Jerusalem and Stephen's going to be martyred. And this is what the accusers are saying about Stephen and what he's preaching and teaching.

It says in verse 14 of chapter 6, it says, For we have heard him, that's Stephen, say that this

Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and will change the customs that Moses delivered to us.

And so Stephen is preaching in Jerusalem that Jesus is going to come to destroy this place and all the customs that Moses had delivered.

Because why? Matthew 24, there should not be left one stone upon another. He's coming in judgment.

That's the context. Yes, that's what was being preached, that Jesus was going to come to destroy this place. And you see that in Hebrews itself, in Hebrews chapter 12.

That's the argument from the writer of Hebrews, is that God is about to remove the things that can be seen so that what cannot be seen will remain.

And that's in reference to the destruction of the whole temple order. And so it's important for us to recognize there's a difference between the final judgment and resurrection.

Hey, Christine. The final judgment and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the judgment coming of Christ upon Jerusalem in that generation.

But there's a problem. When Colton tries to say like, well, if Christians disagree on some of the interpretation issues of Matthew 24, then we can also be malleable in our interpretation of what's being said.

The problem is, is that your prophets and apostles actually told you what the prophecy said and what it meant and how it was intended to be interpreted.

So just as a couple examples here, and Joseph Smith, by the way, had many false prophecies.

Jackson County, Missouri is just one. It has death to it because you also have a lot of the other prophets and apostles reaffirming it.

So you have, of course, what was already mentioned, DNC 84, three through five.

And that was in September 22nd and 23rd, 1832. You have again, the city of Zion, Missouri shall become glorious, very great and very terrible.

And surely Zion is a city of our God and surely Zion cannot fail, neither be moved out of her place. That's DNC 97, 18 through 20.

And that's August 2nd, 1833. Joseph Smith said that Mormons will return to Zion, the only place

God had appointed for the saints. And they were driven out, of course, in 1838.

DNC 101, verses 16 through 21. That's December 16th, 1833.

And let's see here. Okay, and let me move down here.

So we can get a couple of the other affirmations. Of course, we have the history of the church, prophecy about the

Lord's return by Lyman White, that it would happen in that generation before they all died.

Some of them who were there were going to live to see the second coming of Christ. His coming would be like the sun shining in the sky.

It would destroy all the wicked. And that was in history of the church. No, sorry.

Where's that at? I lost my place there. That was history of the church, volume one, page 176, June 1831.

And of course, Joseph Smith, his prophecy, the prophecy about Joseph Smith, that Joseph Smith would remain in the priest's office until Christ returned.

That was history of the church, volume one, page 323, January 23rd, 1833. And history of the church, volume two, page 145.

This prophecy was made in August 16th, 1834, that, and this is from Joseph Smith, that the churches were, quote, to be in readiness to move to Jackson County in two years from the 11th of September next, which is the appointed time for the redemption of Zion.

Can I just point out that in the same way Jesus' warning to his first century believers was localized, the prophecy to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day

Saints was also containing localized instructions. Very localized. And time indications.

Time indicators, yeah, time indicators. It gets worse for Colton. I mean, this goes much deeper than DNC 84.

And I'll give you another one just as we're running through some of these. Joseph Smith had told the saints, in history of the church, volume two, page 182.

This is in February 14th, 1835, that what was made known to him in this prophecy, listen, putting it in the words and the mouth of God.

He said it was made known to him by vision and by the spirit that the coming of the Lord was near, even 56 years should wind up on the scene.

That was in February 14th, 1835. 56 years, even 56 years should wind up on the scene.

And watch, he's not saying that it's coming from him as an individual. I think potentially, possibly, maybe.

He's saying that this was made known to him by vision and the Holy Spirit. He's putting it in the mouth of God.

All right, within 56 years of 1835, false prophecy. Did it happen? Did not happen.

And according to Deuteronomy 18, is that a pass or fail? That's a fail, which means you are not to be afraid of him.

The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You should not be afraid of him. And according to God's standards, if we lived in a biblically ordered, law word of God based society, that kind of false prophet would receive capital punishment.

It is that serious of a crime to put words in the mouth of God that he did not say.

And Joseph said this often. There's so many more false prophecies.

Brigham Young will become the president of the United States of America, but yeah, yeah.

Let's see, George Cannon, George Cannon. A temple shall be reared in the center stake of Zion in the generation in which the revelation was given.

So that was his perspective. Go read Journal of Discourses, volume 10, page 344,

October 23rd, 1864. All right, the point of it is that a temple will be reared in the center stake of Zion in the generation in which the revelation was given.

You're gonna hear in a moment, all kinds of excuses about generation and how long is it the people that actually see the prophecy.

That wasn't George Cannon's perspective. It was to those people that generation before they all died.

And oh, this is one of my favorites from Brigham Young. The only men who become gods, even the sons of God are those who enter into polygamy until of course, polygamy goes out of style and the

United States government threatens the Mormons and then they get a revelation from God that we no longer have to do this.

And of course, Brigham Young also said that they would never be allowed into the union unless they denied the practice of polygamy and they never would, but they did.

And of course - I always had that question about that, like what's next? Gay marriage? Oh. Transitioning children?

Yeah, it's coming. If the prophet speaks, do you have a right to say no? Do you have a right to say, that is not consistent with God's revelation that has come before.

Like even through the mouth of other prophets of the church. Where does it end? There's a large ladder gay saint and that's what they call themselves.

Push coming from the BYU. Orson Pratt, Apostle of the

Mormon Church says, the Lord will return the Mormons to Zion in Jackson County, Missouri.

That's Journal of Discourses, volume 13, page 138, April 10th, 1870. And this is one,

I think the most clear ones in terms of like your prophets and apostles have defined this.

It's not malleable. Orson Pratt again, God promised in the year 1832 that we should before the generation then living had passed away, return and build up the city of Zion in Jackson County.

Journal of Discourses, volume 13, page 362. That's May 5th, 1870.

Orson Pratt again affirms it. God said in the year 1832, Journal of Discourses, volume 17, page 111.

That's June 14th, 1874. So you can go read these discourses for yourself. The point is

Colton's attempt to wave the hand at Joseph Smith's false prophecy does not work with the Mormon prophets and apostles and more can be said about this.

There's a lot of history here with this. The Mormon prophets and apostles actually engaged with this prophecy.

And you listen to Orson here. This is like 1870. The prophecy is a generation ago.

And they're basically saying, God said, did you catch that? Not Joseph said. God said in 1832,

God said that he's gonna build a temple in Jackson County, Missouri before the generation then living had all passed away.

Well, the time must be pretty near now because there's a lot of people sort of dying here.

Not a lot of us left from 1832. And so it must be at any moment. So your own inspired leaders did not hold to your position.

They understood it as, they said it. It's before we're all gonna die. There's not a lot of us left from 1832.

And so it must be at any moment. It's a false prophecy. And to compare that to Jesus and the

Olivet discourse and the great tribulation passage, which did in fact happen, I think is a shameful attempt to wave the hand at the false prophecies over your prophets and apostles.

So let's move on with a little bit more. Even biblically sometimes means era or age.

So we believe... Not, nope, sorry, not in the gospels. Nope, you can look at the

Greek. I don't actually believe, and look,

I could be shown me wrong and I would say, okay, all right, that Colton has really any significant training in Koine Greek and the original language of the

New Testament. And so we had to real, real, real careful with making claims about the

Greek and what a word means without the proper training. But if you look, say just in the gospel, according to Matthew, you'll see that Jesus is quoted as saying this generation to the generation that he's then speaking to.

What shall I liken this generation to? It is like, and who is he talking to? He's talking to those people in front of him, that generation of people.

And then he uses that language again in Matthew chapter 24. And so the attempt to try to expand it out as to era or age, there's a word for age in the

Greek and it ain't generation. And so it's actually in that. Yeah, it's actually in Matthew 24.

And so that is just a, sorry, a shameful attempt to get around what the text is clearly saying.

That the temple in independence will be built sometime during this dispensation or age or era of the restored gospel.

The Joseph Smith translation. Nope, doesn't work. Sorry, Colton, doesn't work because of your own inspired leaders.

Orson Pratt, again, quote, God promised. God promised in the year 1832 that we should before the generation then living had passed away.

Return and build of the city of Zion in Jackson County. Journal of Discourses, volume 13, page 362. Your own inspired leader does not agree with you,

Colton. Does not agree with you. That's the thing, he wants to rub all this nuance on it when his leaders were very, very specific.

Yeah, he could - Like time, place. Age, it could be era. It could be those who actually are alive at the time of the prophecy.

Let's be honest. That's just playing fast and loose. That's just trying to make this prophecy very malleable. It's trying to rescue

Joseph Smith. Orson Pratt does not agree with Colton. And I'll be honest, if I'm gonna listen to a serious

Mormon and the person who represents Mormonism accurately, I'm gonna listen to the prophetic leaders of the

Mormon church. And I'm gonna say, well, what does your inspired apostle think about that prophecy? He does not hold to Colton's view.

He does not agree with you. He believes that in 1832, that God promised that generation before they all died, that they would see this take place.

And it never happened. It's a false prophecy. So in essence, the argument is your own prophets and apostles disagree with you.

I was gonna say, I think you have heard this. I've heard this. It's rare and it's been a long time, but I've heard

Mormons say, in order to justify Matthew 24 and these prophecies, well, that just means that someone still is alive in those generations.

Like even like who Jesus was speaking to. Like what hasn't happened yet because someone in the world is still alive and then we're like, and where's this person at?

Yeah, exactly. Here we go. Of the Bible of Matthew chapter 24 teaches pretty much what most people prefer to interpret

Matthew 24 verse 34 to mean. The Joseph Smith translation says,

Verily I say unto you, this generation in which these things shall be shown forth shall not pass away until all

I have told you shall be fulfilled. All right, here's the challenge to everyone watching right now. Thank God for Google and amazing internet technology.

I'd challenge everyone right now, go to Google, type in Matthew 24 34,

Greek interlinear translation. Matthew 24 34, Greek interlinear translation.

And what you're gonna get is the foundational Greek text that we have here.

And you're gonna have, you don't have to have Greek training to see this. You're gonna have the foundational Greek text and then underneath it, you're gonna have the

English words translating. What do those Greek words mean? And I want everybody to go to Matthew 24 verse 34,

Greek interlinear. And I want to ask you, do you see any of the words that the

Joseph Smith translation adds to the text? Are they there? So this is supposed to be a translation of the

Greek. Joseph Smith's inspired translation of the Greek. Interesting because the words that Joseph Smith adds to the text here do not exist in the

Greek. The shall be shown forth. Yeah, it is not in the text. Joseph Smith literally adds words to the text and the amazing thing is, is all glory to God, heaven and earth will pass away.

My words shall by no means pass away forever, oh Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our

God stands forever. God promises to preserve his word. And isn't it amazing? We have an amazing transmission of the text of the

Bible today where the Lord has preserved his word with no controlling authority over it.

And we have this manuscript tradition where we have the Greek text copied and copied transmitted to us throughout history.

We have the early translations from the Greek text into Latin, Ethiopian, all those texts.

We have this mass of transmitted texts to us. And guess what? None of them, none of them say this.

We have the word of God transmitted to us. We know through the transmitted text, this tradition we have that's been handed to us of the transmitted text.

We know based upon the text, what was there? And that's not there.

You know what else isn't there? Is the prophecy that Joseph Smith added of himself into the end of Genesis. I was gonna say, this isn't the only problem spot.

Right, I mean, the JST, the Joseph Smith translation. How many words does this man have to add to the

Bible for you to discover the man does not know how to translate dead languages or ancient languages?

I mean, do we need to talk about the book of Abraham? The problems there, the book of Abraham and what he did with that text demonstrating that he did not know how to translate dead languages.

And so the Joseph Smith translation is just him being fast and loose with the text itself. And so that is not an accurate translation of the

Greek words underneath Matthew 24, 34. I challenge everybody to go to that Google Greek interlinear and see for yourself if those words are there.

They do not exist. It is not a translation. It is a distortion of the meaning of the text.

I just wanted to show everybody how easy it is to misunderstand or mischaracterize a prophecy or a prophet as false just because you don't understand what's being taught or what was taught.

And also to illustrate... Do you think Orson Pratt understood? I don't know.

You guys come to our doors, Colton. You say that you represent the restored church of Jesus Christ. You say that God's restored prophets and apostles like he had in the

Bible. And Orson Pratt didn't take your view. So, you know, we're not just misunderstanding

Joseph unless you believe that when Orson Pratt said that God promised in 1832 that this was going to happen before they all died.

Unless you think Orson Pratt misunderstood Joseph because he put those words in God's mouth. It's important to note that.

And show that those who first heard these prophecies may not have understood them perfectly themselves, including

Paul, because Paul was very concerned that Christ was going to be returning very soon as shown here in 1

Thessalonians 4. If Joseph Smith is a false prophet, then so is

Jesus in Doctrine and Covenants. Well, that last line there.

If Joseph Smith was a false prophet, then so is Jesus. Why would somebody have to do this?

Just think about it. Why would somebody have to do this? You're forced into this position because you've got so -called prophets in your church that have an abundant record of false prophecies.

And so it forces you to try to find some inconsistency in the Bible. Now, when you're put into that position in your religion, you have a problem because you claim at first that we stand on the standard works.

We believe that the Bible is the Word of God insofar that it is translated correctly, which means, by the way, what?

Wherever it contradicts Mormonism, it's not translated correctly. Which is to say wherever it contradicts church authority.

And it's amazing that today is the celebration of the Reformation. It is. Right, so we're talking about same problem with the

Catholic Church and their authority to define what is the voice of God from themselves.

And the same problem emerges in that they oftentimes do not agree with each other in terms of their own church tradition.

That's right, that's right. And so you need a standard in order to decide, in order to weigh what's truth and what is not truth.

Yeah, an objective, ultimate standard. And you can see that throughout the history of the church. Church fathers arguing for that as the ultimate standard, the

Word of God. But the problem is that you tell people that you believe that the Bible is the

Word of God and you're standing on the Word of God. But then you're forced into a position where you have to actually start attacking the

Bible and the prophets in the Bible and trying to find some way to find flaws in their character or their prophecies or their teaching, because you've got the problem with your prophets.

My prophets contradict themselves. My prophets give false prophecies. So let me go running to the Bible to see if I can find the same problem there.

And let me just say, Colton, you won't find it. You'll try your darndest, like you did here with Jesus, trying to say that Jesus here, well, then he must be a false prophet as well.

No, we would demonstrate exegetically through the text that that promised tribulation was supposed to occur at that time

Jesus prophesied it. He meant it. Everything in Matthew 24 preceding that point was fulfilled in that generation before they all died.

And yes, the New Testament writers clearly anticipated without question this soon coming judgment upon the covenant breakers within their generation.

They were preaching it. They were teaching it. You see it at the martyrdom of Stephen. He's telling them that Jesus is coming back to destroy your temple and the customs

Moses delivered to you. That's precisely what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24 and Matthew 23.

It's the whole context. That is what they were preaching. And they did expect it in their generation. And lo and behold, 70

AD, full destruction of the temple and the customs that Moses had delivered to them exactly on time and as promised.

And so this is the position you're put in when you follow a false prophet. You have to begin attacking the

Bible. Right. And my friend, I hope you see very clearly because you're clearly a sharp guy.

I hope you see very clearly the predicament that you're in. The challenge for you is you have to find some way now to say, well,

Jesus gave false prophecy too. Apparently Paul bought a hook, line, and sinker. You know, that's a problem.

Christians don't have to talk like that. Christians don't have to speak like that. We don't have to try to do workarounds. We can just face the text clearly and say, here's what the text says.

And this is exactly what took place. We don't have to make excuses for God. We don't have to besmirch the character and the prophecies of Jesus.

There's implications of this all the way down too. Because if Jesus can be an error about this, what kind of savior can he be for you?

Right. A savior that is an error, that is not perfect. Right.

That doesn't have a perfect righteousness. That doesn't bode well in terms of your forgiveness and your salvation, because you need him to be that.

You need him to be without error. In order for your salvation to be secure.

Well, I was going to say, it doesn't stop there with just these prophecies either. I mean, we know that there's a lot of early

Mormon doctrine that has changed over time, right, from, quote, direct revelation from God, from their modern prophets.

Yeah. And so it just kind of opens up this, well, things can change. You know, it's OK, sort of an idea of, you know, maybe he wasn't quite right about this.

And I'd be interested to know from Colton, if he's more like an old school apologist, is he going to defend those early doctrines like they used to?

Or is he going to be more the newer, they literally will just say, well, they were wrong. Adam God. Brigham was wrong.

Blood atonement. Yeah. Yeah, so I'd be interested to see. Yeah, and Mormons, look, Latter -day

Saints really struggle with that today. That's why you have so many different sects of Mormonism operating really, of course, around the world, but in particular in Utah.

You have so many different sects of Mormonism. We actually, it's funny. I was just, I didn't even plan on this. Last night I came into the room after putting

August to bed and Candy was in the living room watching that show.

I forget what channel it's on, but it's like the Mormons, the Mormon group that lives in the cave and built into the caves in the mountain.

Very interesting. But, you know, you have to face that as a Mormon, like these Mormons have a very solid argument against the

Salt Lake Mormons and that we're following the original teachings of the prophets and apostles. They made very clear that unless you are a polygamist, you won't become a god one day.

Brigham Young said that. The only men who become gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.

That's from a prophet of the Mormon church. And look, someone tries to be a faithful Mormon. They're like,

I guess that means I gotta enter into polygamy. You know, how's the Salt Lake Mormon really gonna argue against that? Well, God changed his mind.

We've got a different way to godhood now. It's very challenging. And so, well, we got to one of these for today.

I'm sure we'll get to another one later. We have pastoral duties to get to right now. So, wanted to say thank you again to everybody who's a part of this ministry with us and point everyone to ionlayer .com,

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I know you already put your tree up this week. Congratulations. Tomorrow starts Christmas for us officially.

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End Abortion Now. We have a number of states coming next session of bills of abolition. Please continue to pray.

God is doing powerful things to that ministry, saving thousands, countless thousands of lives. And we are closer than ever now to a bill of justice coming into one of these states.

So please give at endabortionnow .com. Thank you guys. And we will see you next week right here on APOLOGIA Radio.

Oh, no, sorry. No, we won't. We will be in Germany. That's right. By the way, speaking of End Abortion Now, we are pulling together churches from across Germany to finally start the fight with the gospel against the issue of abortion in Germany.

Be in prayer for that. Praise God for that. We were able to do it in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland. Now we've got

Germany. And so be in prayer for that work. Thank you to everyone who's given towards End Abortion Now. You're a part of getting this work started in Germany.

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No question about that. And so we won't be here next week. Be in prayer for us. We'll be back the following week. Thank you guys.