The Real First Thanksgiving

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Non -rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it!

00:08

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie? Or are you going to bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

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Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

00:21

So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. Is he hung up on me?

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Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, master.

00:59

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow your mind.

01:17

So you will never be the same again. What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio.

01:25

This is the gospel heard around the world. Thank you guys for tuning in. Very exciting and interesting show today.

01:31

We're going to talk about Thanksgiving. The real first Thanksgiving. The real first. Which is actually a really cool thing to do a week after Thanksgiving just to prepare you for next year.

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So you guys will know going into it what it's actually all about and the whole history. Yes, a week after Thanksgiving, yes, but very important information and really cool stuff, believe me.

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Because I think we're too often distracted by how the modern educational system has talked about the first Thanksgiving.

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The first people that came over. Communities planting. What they believed about the world. The Christian worldview. All that stuff.

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So there it is. I'm Pastor Jeff. That is Luke the Bear right there. What up? Luke the

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And I'll give it to the bear. Alright. Well I'm super excited about this episode. Just to kind of give some history behind this.

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The reason I wanted to do this. It's funny because I saw the article. And it was like, I think it was Wednesday of last week.

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Right before Thanksgiving. And I think it was Time. If I remember correctly it was a Time Magazine article.

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And it was like this completely bogus. Like social justice.

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Leftist view of Thanksgiving. And so I immediately hit up our guest. Who I'm going to introduce in a second.

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Zach Lautenschlager. Who has an awesome last name. And an even more awesome beard. He's a good friend of ours.

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We've known him about a year and a half I think now. And we've done a lot of work with him behind the scenes. We're going to be doing a lot more work with him.

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Behind the scenes as well. Hopefully in the near future. But Zach was out here.

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Taught a leadership class for us here. I think about a year and a half ago. And I couldn't help but notice his incredible knowledge of U .S.

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history. From a Christian perspective. And I'm like wow. He has some really cool stories. So I immediately hit

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Zach up. I was like hey would you love to come on the show and talk about the real Thanksgiving. And he was like yeah absolutely. So that's kind of what spurred this on.

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But Zach I'll go ahead and let you introduce yourself to our audience. Well thanks brothers.

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It's a pleasure to be here. I'm Zach Lautenschlager. I serve as the vice president in my day job as the

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National Association for Gun Rights. Right on. Four million members nationwide. And it's good work.

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Recently relocated to Utah. No I'm not LDS. But it's a great state.

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It is. And many Mormon and LDS friends. So it's a pleasure to be here. We're part of the

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Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And I'm attending Berean OPC here in Coofield.

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It's Jason Wallace's church. What's that? Jason Wallace's church, correct? That's correct. Yes in fact there are two

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OP churches here. Jason Pastors Christ Presbyterian down in Magna. But then he also preaches up here.

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We're in between pastors right now. Yeah you look like a pilgrim. I just want you to know that.

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Legitimately. You look like you could be sitting at the first Thanksgiving table.

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An Irish pilgrim. If I give my wife a hard time I'll brush the beard out. And kind of get the

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John Smith look. Who wasn't a pilgrim. Although do you know that they did try to hire him.

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Before they hired Miles Standish. Oh really? It was actually Smith who had mapped all of Cape Cod.

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So before they left Holland, left Leiden. They contacted Smith and asked him.

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And he was actually interested. But when they got to know him they said. While I look out that guy is a little bit of an egotist.

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He'd become a tyrant. And so they hired Miles Standish instead. Who has a very interesting history.

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Standish had a similar background. He fought in the Netherlands. At the same time

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Smith did. I don't know if they knew one another. But just some fun connections there.

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I do enjoy the facial hair. Well you're in good company. Because we love it here too.

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Indeed brothers. It's a pleasure. So there's a lot of revision.

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And there has been for a long time. Obviously if you don't like God. And you don't like his word.

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Then you really don't like American history either. And so of course you're going to want to rewrite it.

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Or reinterpret it. And judge those who perhaps did love

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God. And did try to serve him in the past. More harshly than we would judge others. So some of our fellow

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Americans. Who perhaps share a more Marxist world view. Are going to look at Che Guevara. And praise him for fighting for liberty and freedom.

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Even though the dude was an executioner. He was Castro's executioner. And then we're going to look at William Brewster.

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Or Bradford. Or Miles Standish. And say what terrible people. Because they happened to be. They fought the

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Indians. Or were allied with one tribe against another. And so we're going to look at Che Guevara. It's always correct to look back.

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And say well there is no golden age. We don't believe in a golden age. I certainly don't. Not of anything. We're talking about fallen sinful human people.

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And I get excited when I see the grace of God. Or the providence of God. Working in their lives.

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Because we look at that and say well cool. Maybe God can work through my life too. Maybe God can use me in my time. When I was growing up.

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I grew up a home school kid. And I used to opine that I was not born. 200, 300, 400 years ago.

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Because I love those times. But I have come to recognize. That our time is just as exciting.

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And there are glorious opportunities. That's why I'm privileged to work in politics full time.

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That's what I do. Not only with the National Association for Gun Rights. But also with my full service consulting business.

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So I run campaigns. I run legislative operations. And I fundraise.

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And I love American history. And so the opportunity. No matter what God has called us to do.

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To learn the principles that work. And to apply them in our own lives. To lead our.

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If we're men. To lead our wives. Or to prepare to do so. If we're women.

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Not only working with your husband. But working with him to lead the family.

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That's part of it. It's a leadership team from my perspective. And to follow and serve. As we are all called to do.

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And for kids. Who hopefully are watching. It is such an exciting time.

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It is such an exciting time. To be alive. Yes there are challenges. Yes there are dangers.

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But that's. That's what makes it cool. That's what makes it cool. And it's certainly not a boring time.

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By any stretch of the imagination. Absolutely not. Let's talk about that thirst. That thirsty Thanksgiving.

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That first Thanksgiving. It's an interesting point. The Pilgrims are always painted as dour.

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Sour faced. We hate fun. That's hogwash. They weren't even

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Puritans. They were Separatists. Brownists is what they were called. Originally for the first 200 years.

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And so there was drinking. At the first Thanksgiving. If they had anything alcoholic to drink.

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I guarantee they drank it. We don't know for sure if they did. They loved good music.

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They loved good beer. They loved good things. Miles Standish wore a red cape. I think the foundation of the whole thing.

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It's easy to go back too far. And all history is interconnected for me. So I have a hard time just talking about one thing.

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But we hear. Usually you kind of hear two things. If you grew up in a Christian world. You hear that the

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Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. We think that's so they could pick what church they go to.

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No. The reality is. It's so that they could live life the way God believed it should.

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The way he believed. God had commanded them to live it. And not be thrown into jail.

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Where they would starve to death. Because you weren't fed in prison. Someone from outside had to feed you. There were

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Brownists. And that's what they have been called. People who followed a pastor.

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A separatist pastor named Brown. They were thrown in prison. Starved to death. Or they had to go into hiding.

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William Brewster. One of the first leaders of the Pilgrims. Published documents.

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Propounding the gospel. Expounding on the gospel. And criticizing those in authority. Who were commanding.

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Unbiblical and tyrannical things. From that perspective. It's so much more than.

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So you can pick a church. So you can live life. That's why they left

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England. Then you have the other side. Who loves to talk about the fact. They were really just evil capitalists.

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Who came to enslave and abuse. And kill Indians. And hurt people. And rape the land.

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That's the other side. Neither are the case. These are people who read their

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Bibles. And said God expects us to apply this. To every area of life. So we're going to start doing this. And then very quickly discovered.

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In their culture that was not acceptable. So they started looking for another place. Of course they went to Holland first.

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And we know they stayed there. And then eventually they embarked on two ships. One of them started to sink. Possibly through sabotage.

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So they all crowded under the Mayflower. 102 people on a 120 foot vessel.

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So you're talking just absolutely standing room only. Where they spent two months.

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Two months standing room. That's insane. Good grief. Fairly room to lay down. And of course you talk about living that close.

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With that many people. 100 people on a 120 foot ship. They're seasick.

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They get diseases. They get stomach complaints. And illnesses that go with everything.

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That goes with that. And so that's what the voyage was like. It was not easy.

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It wasn't horrible. And it wasn't that different from any other seafaring voyage. Other than you have a lot of passengers.

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And that was 102 passengers. Plus the 40 man crew. So two months at sea.

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Then they land. And of course they were headed for the Virginia colony. Where they had authority.

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Of course Virginia went all the way up to. Almost New York. And so.

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They got blown off course. And they made landfall at Cape Cod. Which is the hook that sticks out.

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If you look at a map of Massachusetts. That's the bottom part of Massachusetts. They landed there. And they spent another month.

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Out on that sand bar. Most of them on the ship. While some of the men explored.

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And tried to find a place. They went ashore on Cape Cod. And there were already inhabitants there.

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Who came out. And were aggressive. There were no fatalities on either side.

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But it's an important point to note. That the pilgrims didn't just show up. And say well let's kill everyone here. And take their land.

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Which is basically what you hear. No that's ridiculous. They landed and said oh there are people here. Let's go someplace else.

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It wasn't that hard. Now yes they were concerned about being attacked. Because the relationship between Europeans and Native Americans.

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At this point was not. You have to recognize it had been a hundred years. There had been a hundred years of back and forth.

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Some of it good. But a lot of it bad on both sides. And there were many Europeans who did come here. And did do evil things and stole and hurt people.

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That's true. But what makes the pilgrims unique and remarkable. Is that their attitude was completely different.

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They respected the people here. And so they looked for a place where. Let's find a place where there's nobody living right now.

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Maybe nobody has a claim on this land. So they went inside Cape Cod Bay. And landed at what is now

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Plymouth. The Indian name for the place was Patuxet. And it was abandoned.

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There were some clearings there. They were tumbling down buildings. And there were lots and lots and lots of graves.

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And even exposed remains. Because that village had died. Possibly wiped out by disease.

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Most likely we don't know. The only surviving Patuxet resident that we know of.

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Was Tisquantum. There may have been a few others. That weren't recorded in history. He went down in history.

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And was popularized in the 1800s. As Tisquantum. And so they found this land.

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Where it was open. And there were four or five rivers. Coming down to the sea. And there was a hilltop.

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That was good for defense. Ready made. So they decided to settle there. Now many people know the name

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William Bradford. He was the second governor of Plymouth Bay. Excuse me.

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And so he's about 35 at this point. Between 30 and 35. And while they're there.

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On that expedition where they found Patuxet. Which would become Plymouth. Bradford's 26 year old wife.

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And they have a little boy. She falls overboard. And this is early

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December. It's about now. And dies. She drowns. And he doesn't find out about it until he gets back.

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Four other people perish there. And those were the five deaths at sea. One died on the voyage. They land at Patuxet.

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They unload the stuff. They start building shelter. But it's now Christmas. They started building the common building on Christmas Day.

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On the 25th. Of course they wouldn't have recognized that as Christmas. That was abhorrent to them. Because it had become an enforced holiday.

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By the Church of England. Yes. But that was the day they started building. And now of course over the winter.

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And this is something we all hear about. Everyone hears that a lot of them died. 102 people. 45 of them perished.

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During that winter. During that first winter. There were only three families that did not suffer some death.

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In the family. Wow. Several families that were wiped out to one. One man.

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One woman. A child. Who was left. Now to our ears that is just almost unimaginable.

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You have to understand that that was very tough. For them. That was extremely high. Extremely high mortality rate.

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But you are talking about a different time. And in Europe during this time. And for hundreds of years before this.

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It was not uncommon for large numbers of people to die. Bradford himself. Was an orphan.

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His father died when he was very young. And so he was with his mother. And then he went to live with his grandfather.

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Who died. And so then he went back to live with his mother. And her new husband. And then she died.

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And by the time he was 10 he was an orphan. And so he was actually taken in by William Brewster. And Brewster had also taken in other children.

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Some of whom died on the voyage. But who had no place to go. And so he took them in. And took care of them as best as he could.

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And some of his own children perished as well. So these are remarkably compassionate people. And so all throughout this period.

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When they were looking for land. And looking for places. They came across these big stores. Big piles of corn.

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That had been carefully. They were talking about maize. That had been carefully prepared and buried.

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And that were good for food. And so they didn't know what they were. They said someone left all this out here. And there was no one around. And so they looked around.

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They couldn't find anyone. And so they said we're going to starve. And took the corn. It turns out that was part of the burial ritual. And so when they found that out.

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They actually went and paid everything they could. To that tribe for the corn. And paid them for it.

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So through that winter. It was very terrible. They didn't know. All they knew were the terrible stories. Of people being attacked and killed.

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And eaten and whatever. There were all kinds of stories. Many of which were false. Some of which there were terrible incidents on both sides.

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Leading up to this point. And so they would bury their dead at night. And disguise the graves.

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And many of us have heard those stories. Yeah. And so this is the winter. Well by March the

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Mayflower has to return. And so then. They're on their own. And it's starting to get warmer.

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There are some greens to eat. People aren't quite dying the same. At the same rate. And so.

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Then you have. Eventually you've got this tall. Dusky.

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Man clothed in native garb. Who walks into the. Middle of their town.

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And says welcome Englishmen. In good English. And it kind of blew their minds.

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And so they go out and this is Samoset. He is actually. From a tribe that lives.

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That was originally from the area that became Maine. And he was a sanctuary chief. And he was kind of attached.

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To Massasoit. And was one of his advisors. And so Massasoit sent him down.

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To talk to the. To talk to the pilgrims. And say okay. You know what.

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Why are you guys here? What's going on? And so they found out what they were. And Samoset the

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Abenaki. That he was treated well. They invited him in. They sat down. They talked with him.

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They showed him respect. And they just talked about what was going on. And so he went back and reported to Massasoit.

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This is who these people are. So Massasoit sends Tisquantum. Who also speaks English. Because Tisquantum is actually.

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Oh no. We lost audio there. So of course that's when you have.

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Planting the corn with the fish. And you start to have plenty. And so what happens through this summer.

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The pilgrims. Or the brownists. Who are led by William Brewster. Who is a diplomat.

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He's a diplomat. He was part of the diplomatic corps. For England. And so God placed him in this situation.

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Where he understood diplomacy. And so he sat down with Massasoit. As a king.

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Which he was. And treated him with respect. And negotiated with him.

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And eventually after Bradford became governor. They signed a compact. Or a treaty.

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That said that if anyone attacks Massasoit. That the brownists.

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Or the Englishmen. Would help them. And vice versa. And so interestingly they bound themselves to that tribe.

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Which you can tell from a diplomatic perspective. That makes sense. They're out there in the middle of nowhere. They need food. They need support.

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But they do have good fighters. And that's something else that we really don't think about. Everybody I think has seen.

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Or a lot of people have seen. The picture of the pilgrims going to church. And one of them has got his arquebus. His big musket on his shoulder.

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But we don't really think about the fact that. These guys were trained. That's why they hired

24:07

Miles Standish. And Miles Standish was a genuine badass. He was never officially part of their church.

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But when they were all sick. His wife perished. He never got the sickness. And he nursed at one point. He was one of the few people.

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Maybe one of two or three out of 60 or 70. Who could stand up. They were so sick they couldn't even get out of bed.

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Literally. So he spent all his time feeding them over that winter. And he really became one of them. And was well loved by them.

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He and Bradford were great friends. And he actually became friends with many of the

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Indians as well. Many of the Americans. So I lost track of the name of the

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Indian warrior. Who he fought side by side with for years. And eventually lived in his house.

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He became part of Standish's household. And they lived together.

25:04

At the end of their lives. And were always great friends. So eventually.

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Of course you've got the whole story. There was plenty. They had a harvest festival.

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And a day of Thanksgiving. And many people parse it out. The first official day of Thanksgiving wasn't until later.

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Like the next year. And that was when Thanksgiving was proclaimed. But it's just foolishness to look at a bunch of brownists.

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Or separatists. And say these guys didn't give thanks. That this was sort of the

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English pagan thing. Which is laughable. Soon after that. It was about four years later.

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Another group of Englishmen came. And actually set up the first colony. What would become the

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Massachusetts Bay Colony. And eventually. And when you look at an old map. Everything south of Boston.

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Down to basically on Cape Cod. And over toward Rhode Island. Was the Plymouth Bay Colony.

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And the Massachusetts Bay Colony was north of there. That's where Boston was set up. But when these Englishmen arrived.

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Of course the Plymouth Bay went up. And tried to strike up a relationship with them.

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And to have good relations. And it turns out. That the Massachusetts tribe. Was. They had bad relationships with these guys.

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And history shows that these Englishmen. Had no respect for the native peoples. They lied. They cheated.

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They stole. They killed some of them. It was a very bad relationship. And it's remarkable. It's not exactly the same tribe.

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The Massachusetts were a separate tribe. They were not allied. Or under Massasoit's leadership.

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But similar culture. And it's important not to paint with too broad a brush either. I'm trying not to do that. People tend to say.

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Well you've got the Indians. And you've got the Europeans. And these are two groups. No not at all. That's kind of the point. You had a group of Englishmen who came.

26:57

And they sat down with the Indians. And they treated them with respect. Treated them as equals and superiors.

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And brought what they had to the table. And said what can we do to benefit one another. And for that time all the way until.

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Into the 1700's. When finally the King Phillips War. But you had excellent relationships there.

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That were built by Brewster and his diplomatic skills. And then you have other Englishmen. Who can come and settle 20 miles away.

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With the next Indian tribe. Who have a similar culture. But they are institutionally and geopolitically separate. And they can't get along with them at all.

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And eventually Massasoit tells Standish. You need to strike first.

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Because these guys are not just going to kill these Englishmen. They think you're all alike. They're going to come kill you next. And so it was actually

27:40

Massasoit's urging. That Standish went up. And launched a preemptive attack on them.

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And attempted. It wasn't very successful. It was in one sense. They did scare the

27:52

Indians. The Massachusetts tribe badly. And they showed them don't mess with us. And that was beneficial.

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But they had already kind of done that. There was a sachem. Or an under chief to Massasoit.

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Who had tried to rebel. And so Massasoit called on his European allies. And they went out and put down.

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And said you can't do that. And actually chased the guy down. And there was a scuffle ensued. And a couple of his followers were killed.

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And Standish actually killed one of them with his own hands. Grabbed the knife out of the guy's hands. And stabbed him with it.

28:24

When they attacked him. And he would do things like that. When they went up to take care of Wagonsit.

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That was up by Boston. Eventually they were jumped. And Indians jumped out.

28:37

And had the drop on them basically. And Standish leapt forward. Grabbed the weapon out of the closest guy's hand.

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And started fighting them. It was remarkable. And in hindsight.

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Many of the. Those who hate God's law. Those who don't want to. Don't want to see anything.

28:58

As a good Christian history. Who criticized Standish. For his role in going up.

29:05

And launching that random strike. They failed to mention. Most of them. That was actually at Massasoit's.

29:11

At another Native American's urging. And that they did so. Because of their contractual obligation.

29:17

Now we question whether it was a good idea. Standish was by nature aggressive. He was a little guy.

29:23

He was not very big. But he was a fighter. And he knew that he could win fights. By starting it if he had to.

29:31

And he usually did. And so. Was it a good idea to go up and do that?

29:37

Maybe not. Because after that. All the other tribes. Outside of the

29:42

Wampanoag's. Massasoit's. They basically vacated the land.

29:49

And up to this point. The Englishmen had started. To establish good trade. And there was benefit.

29:55

And both sides really. There were things of value being traded. And after that.

30:00

Trade pretty well died for several years. Because there was no one there. And so. That was not a good thing.

30:07

But it was also not a good thing. For the relationships. And so. We always hear.

30:15

When you talk about the first Thanksgiving. You always hear. Big bad evil Europeans come. Beat up on poor defenseless happy Indians.

30:24

That's a common narrative. It's pilgrims. Dancing with wolves.

30:30

It's the same story over and over again. It's Avatar. It's dancing with wolves. It's whatever. And that is such a ridiculously.

30:38

False narrative. It pays disservice. To the Native Americans. What do you mean by that?

30:46

Well there is. The big picture that you get. Is that these were very simplistic.

30:53

Happy people. Who never did anything bad. But also were not very smart. They didn't really pursue their own.

31:00

They didn't build themselves up. They didn't. They didn't have trade.

31:06

They didn't have things that go on. That normal people do. When you watch.

31:12

For example. Dances with wolves. And I grew up there. I grew up with the

31:19

Lakota Sioux. They actually sold my people. My ancestors homesteaded there.

31:24

And bought land from them. And. Dances with wolves.

31:30

Shows them to be. Somewhat simple. They just aren't happy living out there.

31:35

In the stone age. And that's not true. They made with what they had.

31:40

They traded. They invented things. They did all kinds of things. That normal people do. That we do.

31:46

They weren't so very different. They're not aliens. And that whole narrative.

31:51

Just paints everybody with a broad brush. And says. Everything has to be consistent.

31:57

With the persecution narrative. Because that has benefit. For political ends. And that's where that goes.

32:04

The first Thanksgiving. When it came right down to it. It wasn't super elaborate.

32:10

There was meat. And there was some grain. And the Indians did bring popcorn. But it wasn't quite as we would see it.

32:18

It was probably brought in leather bags. It was probably somewhat chewy. Because it wasn't freshly popped. And there were games.

32:27

The idea of there being. Some kind of sports on Thanksgiving. Even though football could be a distraction.

32:33

And may keep us from actually. Thinking about the past. And what this means. It is a part of Thanksgiving traditionally.

32:39

There were foot races. And there were shooting contests. And so.

32:45

It is a proud tradition. And it is a tremendous part of American history.

32:51

But then we have to look back and see. That idea of. The people gathering together.

32:57

And corporately giving thanks to God. When being called to do so. By civil leadership.

33:04

Is something that we still practice. Sometimes to this day. And that is.

33:10

You can trace it up to. When you become a national holiday. And Lincoln and all the discussions.

33:16

With all of that. But. This part of American history.

33:23

Is deeply significant. And it is so important. Not to look at history.

33:28

Number one. As these super simplistic interests. And everyone was the same.

33:33

But it is also important not to look at it. Sort of as this inevitable move. That things are going on.

33:39

When we have small people who do small things. What is called the great man theory. There are a few great people who make decisions.

33:45

And that is all history hinges on that. That is also a false narrative. That is popular among Christians in the 1800s.

33:52

It is still popular today. We tend to think of history in these big chunks. And that is not how it is. There are small individuals like us.

33:58

Who make decisions that eventually. Some of them end up being very influential. So decisions that we make on a daily basis.

34:06

We don't know which ones are going to be. Sure you know some decisions are small. But we can talk about.

34:11

We can talk about Massachusetts history. And why did the battle of Lexington and Concord. Happen on Lexington Green.

34:18

Instead of somewhere else. It is because there was an unheard of sergeant. Who made the decision to turn left.

34:24

Instead of right. When he got to Lexington Green. He happened to be at the head of the call. So those kind of decisions.

34:32

We can look back at. What happened at the first Thanksgiving. And see those decisions as well. We can see people like Brewster.

34:39

And Bradford. Who were reading their Bibles. And saying you know what. What we do at the state church.

34:47

What we would call Anglican church today. On Sunday morning is not what God commands us to do. And you know what we do.

34:53

In our homes. Based on what we learn there. From our understanding. Is not what God commands us to do.

34:58

We need to live differently. Now once they came to North America.

35:05

They did hope. And they openly hoped. That God would do something with that. This was tremendous sacrifice. Bradford later wrote.

35:12

That they had reports. That the natives here. Would capture you. Cut you up while alive.

35:19

Cook parts of you while you watched and ate it. Wow. That was the report they had.

35:24

And they didn't know any better. Turns out that probably didn't happen. Certainly didn't happen to the pilgrims.

35:30

But that was what they faced. Besides the normal stuff.

35:36

Like starving to death. And they wrote and said. We hope that upon these.

35:41

Upon our feeble effort. Basically I'm paraphrasing. But upon our feeble effort. We hope that God will do something great.

35:48

And they said that Bradford. It was Bradford who said. That he hoped that they would be but stepping stones.

35:55

To future generations. In other words that they would lay face down in the mud. And have future generations walk on their backs.

36:01

That was the mental picture. I love that. And you see that. That's what they were giving thanks to God for.

36:08

So it is just a tremendous amount of history. This has been tremendous fun. We've just barely scratched the surface.

36:13

I know. I know you have to take off. But thank you for that brother. Appreciate that.

36:20

It's a fun story. I hope it's a good resource for all of our listeners. And I'm grateful for all you're doing brother. I look forward to this next year.

36:26

And the work we can do together. Looking forward to it. God bless you guys. You too brother. Thanks man. Pretty cool huh?

36:33

That's awesome stuff. This guy he knows his stuff. I told you. That's exciting. So guys what we're going to do here is take a quick break.

36:40

We're going to come right back. And have I think an important discussion. Stay with us. We're going to talk about I think truth and culture.

36:48

And Christian worldview stuff related to this. I think it's important to talk about the kind of impact. That these believers had on the world.

36:54

And the sort of thing that motivated them. So we can just do a little chat about that guys. But before we do. We're going to take a quick commercial break guys.

37:00

So stay with us. Excited about what's coming up next. Don't forget to go to apologiastudios .com A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A

37:06

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37:18

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37:32

We think it is critical for Christians to lead in their families. Churches, workplaces, schools. And every area of culture.

37:39

And to do so with a full strength confidence. In the truth, beauty and goodness. Of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

37:46

We think it is critical for Christians to understand. That a battle for the direction of culture. Is upon us.

37:52

And that we are all in that battle. Whether we want it or not. The Apostle Paul tells us that.

37:58

The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh. But have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments.

38:06

And every lofty opinion. Raised against the knowledge of God. And take every thought captive.

38:11

To obey Christ. If God has given us weapons. The implication is that.

38:17

He expects us to need them. And to be using them. Now as in the

38:23

Apostle Paul's day. Rebellious arguments. Opinions and thoughts. Are running unchecked in our culture.

38:30

Systematic unbelief is being applied in every realm. Seeking to destroy everything in its path.

38:36

Whether that be churches. Families. Individuals. Or God honouring institutions and traditions.

38:42

This idolatry needs to be confronted. By hearts and minds turned to the living God. In true worship.

38:48

Applying instead. God honouring beliefs in every sphere. At the

38:53

Runner Academy. We arm and train emerging leaders. To do this very thing. By providing comprehensive biblical worldview training.

39:02

In the western heritage. The relationship of Christ to culture. What it means to be human.

39:07

And the true meaning of freedom. This two week program seeks to equip.

39:13

The next generation of Christian leaders. To live out their calling. In a way that truly honours

39:18

Christ. As the Lord of all things. Especially in areas like medicine. Law, politics, education.

39:25

The church, business and the arts. These spheres have a powerful influence. On the direction of culture.

39:31

And there is a biblical vision for all of them. Contained in the word of God. The Runner Academy is hosted.

39:39

At the EICC Centre for Reformational Culture. An environment that provides. A healthy balance of work and rest.

39:46

And that stimulates creative discussion. For engaging with and shaping culture. To the glory of God. On this 24 acre farm and retreat centre.

39:56

Delegates can expect to find. Challenging teaching. But also fun and fellowship with like minded

40:01

Christians. Who are concerned to recover. A vision of God's glory. And who are committed to think through.

40:07

What it means to live the Christian life. In all its fullness. Apply today and get equipped.

40:15

To face the critical issues of our time. With a deep, rich and joyful confidence. In the

40:20

Lordship of Jesus Christ. Over all life and culture. I want their faith.

40:37

To not just be something that stands. But something around which culture can be built. We want students who can think critically.

40:44

About arguments but also about the culture around them. That can then speak clearly to it. And that also have the ability.

40:50

To influence and shape. Because of the power of their message. Because that's really what the gospel does.

40:56

The gospel throws down all the arguments against it. It speaks to the hearts of people. It influences and it changes.

41:07

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41:13

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41:19

Bringing the gospel around the world. Welcome back everybody to Apologia Radio.

41:47

Don't forget to go to apologiastudios .com to get more. Hey, since you're here. If you're watching this on Apologia Studios channel on YouTube.

41:54

If you're new to the channel. Welcome everybody. I'm Jeff the Calm of the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear over there. If you're new. You do.

42:00

I'm just going to take a gander here. Just for a second. Because I'm forgetting like everything. But I think there's quite a bit. If you look over.

42:07

Find our channel. Our videos and all those things. I'll just run you through a couple things.

42:12

In our feed that you can go check out. Recently dropped. I think it will help you to know.

42:17

What has been up the last couple of months. We had a good episode a couple of weeks ago.

42:24

Or last week actually. By what standard with Tom Askle. And Jared. Longshore.

42:31

About the new film that actually. Should be out in the next week or so. It's called Bye. That's what they're doing the premiere.

42:38

Then it's the week after. Is that right? They're dropping that. I don't know. Basically they're going to do the premiere in Florida tomorrow.

42:46

I think it is. And then the next week. They're going to drop it somewhere sometime. The film is called

42:51

By What Standard. Very excited about the film. It's going to be looking at a lot of important things. Related to cultural

42:58

Marxism. Intersectionality. All these different perspectives. That are actually now coming into the church itself.

43:05

So By What Standard is a film that examines that. Believe me if you're like I don't know what any of that means. I could care less.

43:11

You probably need to start caring. And you need to find out about what it means. Because it's actually impacting a lot of major Christian denominations.

43:19

In a very very dangerous way. Absolutely. You'll also see on the channel What Does Romans Say?

43:25

That's Pastor James White. From ReformCon. The ReformCon videos are up and they're out.

43:31

So if you weren't able to come. To Arizona for ReformCon. We are putting out the videos slowly.

43:36

I'm going to be dropping in the next couple days. Pastor Luke's sermon from New Zealand. That's up.

43:42

That's from about a year ago. Better late than never. Over a year ago. I want to introduce you guys to somebody.

43:51

Luke and I would want you to get to know this gentleman. Our brother Dr. Joseph Boot. Joe Boot. His talk from ReformCon is up.

43:59

I'm looking at the views right now. This was put up about two weeks ago. Looking at the views. It only has about 7 ,500 views on YouTube.

44:06

That thing should have a million. That's Dr. Joseph Boot. He wrote a book called

44:12

The Mission of God. Highly encourage you to get that. He's a great encouragement to us. He is a solid man.

44:18

He is brilliant. And you need to listen to that talk. Recovering the Christian Mind will bless you.

44:23

It will challenge you. So there's just a couple things. But of course over the last couple of months you'll also see the regular sermons that have gone up related to the

44:31

Olivet Discourse, the Great Tribulation. So those are kind of just in the feed every Sunday. Like the passage in Matthew 24 where Jesus talks about the sun darkened and the stars falling from heaven.

44:42

That is up there. I encourage you guys to check that out. We have John Samson up there. We have Andrew Sandlin. We even have, of course, the whole film of Babies Are Still Murdered here.

44:52

That's up. If you haven't seen it yet, I highly encourage you to see it. It's also on Amazon Prime. So if you have Amazon Prime, go check out

44:58

Babies Are Still Murdered here. Very important film. Exposes the failures of the pro -life ministry and the fact that the pro -life ministry is professedly is that a word?

45:08

Professingly not Christian in their methodology and foundation and their principles. They are not.

45:13

And we have the leaders of the pro -life movement gladly singing that praise that they're not

45:19

Christian and not pretending to be. So we want to approach the issue of ending abortion from a

45:24

Christian perspective with the gospel saving lives. If you guys want to know what that's about, go to EndAbortionNow to get more.

45:30

EndAbortionNow .com to get more. We also have tons of stuff. There's stuff here, again, Toby Sumpter.

45:36

Don't miss it. ReformCon talk. You have to see that. If you haven't seen it, it's the

45:41

Sanctuary and the Public Square. Toby Sumpter. 5 ,000 views. It's honestly the best message

45:47

I've seen this year. All year, my favorite message. For sure. You have a conversation between me and a moral nihilist at ASU.

45:56

Check that out. I think it'll bless you, giving that guy the gospel, really unpacking his worldview. And you have fairly recently, sort of a fun thing to watch,

46:04

I think helpful also is the debate with the atheists in Utah. Pastor Luke, Pastor James, Pastor Zach, and myself went to Utah with our whole team, our wonderful team at Apologia Church to go out and do evangelism.

46:16

It was one of my favorite weeks of missions we've ever had. We got to preach the gospel in Salt Lake City to the

46:22

Mormon community, and we got to do three days of discussions and debates. The atheist debate is up there.

46:28

Check that one out. So, that gives you sort of a rundown and a peek as to what's been happening the last couple weeks.

46:34

And a big thank you to all of our ministry partners that actually are all accessed at ApologiaStudios .com.

46:40

You did all this. You made it all happen. That's what it's all about.

46:47

So you guys helped us make all this possible, and people are hearing the gospel, getting this teaching because you are doing this ministry with us.

46:54

You know what I just realized? It's been a crazy week. This week is six years for Apologia Radio.

47:02

Is this the six -year anniversary that we're at? Just you and I sitting here alone? We don't have joy with this.

47:08

We should have probably planned something for this. I know. I just remembered. It's always the first week of December. Maybe the ten -year anniversary would have been something really special.

47:16

So six years Apologia Radio. Six years Apologia Radio. Ten years official plan of Apologia Church in February.

47:24

End of February. But Pastor Luke and I have been doing this for 12 years. 12 years, right?

47:33

Since 2008. You're starting to see it in the lines. 12 years, just about. You're starting to see it in the lines.

47:38

The little gray edges to the beard right here. You know what I just realized? Our ten -year anniversary for Apologia Church, we will be in Ireland.

47:48

Oh, that's right. Speaking that day. Oh, wow. That's amazing.

47:54

Yes, we have plans actually in the works right now to help the church in Northern Ireland and hopefully

48:01

Scotland to do ministry in the area of abortion.

48:07

Unfortunately, abortion and this gets to the whole topic. This is a perfect segue. Perfect segue. Northern and Southern Ireland were kind of like the last stand in many respects.

48:19

There are other places that have banned abortion as well. But it's sort of this last standing vestige of a nation that was once dominated by the

48:29

Christian worldview and had criminalized abortion. People referred to it as murder.

48:36

Time quickly changed all those things. And so we were there when Southern Ireland fell and caved in the issue of abortion and legalized it.

48:44

And we've been praying with and talking to our friends in Northern Ireland for the last year or more about their stand against abortion.

48:53

But now it's been forced upon them. Abortion is now legal in Northern and Southern Ireland.

48:59

And so we are going out now in a different way than we did before. We're trying to help them to sort of stop it and hold it back.

49:07

Now that it's legal, we have to go and help and equip and encourage in the area of abortion ministry.

49:14

And so that's what's up guys. Pray for that because that's an important ministry for Apologia. We have very close friends and brothers and sisters there in Ireland that are just godly amazing people.

49:26

Did you want to say something to that? I was just going to say that's the same tyrannical government that's forcing abortion on Northern Ireland is the same one that sent the pilgrims, well forced the...

49:39

The pilgrims. It's been a long week.

49:45

And the pilgrims out of England, same government.

49:51

Yeah, just thought of that. We're wrapping up the show here today but don't leave just yet because I think what we heard at the beginning of the show today in terms of Christians coming over and doing a lot of hardship to come and to plant and to build a community, there was a

50:11

Christian worldview assumption and all that they did and all that they read and all that they built and they were building with a mindset toward the future of the kingdom of God, the gospel and the biblical worldview.

50:28

One of the things that cannot be avoided particularly in American history, I mean all throughout history, but of course what we're all knowledge about, it can't be avoided in American history that this nation was founded by people who believed in Christ and who held to the biblical worldview and tried to actually get the biblical worldview into every aspect of life.

50:48

That was just something that was normative in the colonies and so it was assumed that you had a commitment to the biblical worldview and all that you said and did.

50:56

We talk about this often how the people early on in American history as you read their writings even somebody who wasn't a believer like Benjamin Franklin still went and listened to Whitefield, loved hearing him preach.

51:09

Still gave money to Whitefield for his orphanages and you look at even some of the founding fathers and those people that may not have been either good solid

51:20

Christians or professed Christians, the assumption was we still need to obey this

51:27

God. Isn't that interesting? People that were on the outskirts, not actually in the church were still saying that's how we're supposed to live.

51:36

The Christian worldview was assumed and you look even in the early documents as colonies are founded and people are building communities, they would name the triune

51:46

God of the Bible in their covenants and in their official documents. They named Jesus Christ by name and you even see that in a place where Pastor Luke and I planted a church down in Hawaii.

51:57

Hawaii's history is the same way. Christians went over to preach the gospel to the islands and within 20 years they're converted to Christ and they name the

52:07

God of the Bible in their foundational documents, in their constitution. 20 years of mission work, right?

52:14

So it's just the assumption was their biblical worldview in all aspects of life, spreading communities with an eye on Jesus, the gospel,

52:23

God's truth, God's law, and we are in big trouble today in the

52:28

West, right? It was a thing weird for Luke and I, it was strange.

52:36

Okay, we came into Ireland's issue at the tail end. So I went there providentially by accident from our perspective.

52:45

I was asked to teach as a Baptist pastor for a Presbyterian church's annual...

52:52

Legit Covenanters. Legit Covenanters, their annual conference, which I thought was so beautiful. So I was like, yes, I'll do that.

52:58

How beautiful is that kind of unity? But when I get there I start realizing as I'm there,

53:03

I'm not there to talk about abortion. All of a sudden it's coming up everywhere like we're in big trouble and I'm like, well that's our thing. That's our whole thing.

53:08

So Luke and I went back and we were there in the tail end of this whole process of them sort of like these last standing pillars of the

53:17

Christian worldview that are preserving life and preserving human dignity like the image of God and criminalizing abortion.

53:23

Like these last standing pillars of the Christian worldview. So it's almost like symbolic, right?

53:30

I'll let Luke talk here, but when you go around Ireland, you see all the vestiges of the old world that was there.

53:37

The pagan symbol behind us. It's everywhere. Everywhere you go in Dublin.

53:43

It's a joke. It's a joke, Pastor. But yeah, the tricetra symbol, crosses, old churches.

53:53

Like all the old Christian worldview, all that stuff is all kind of hanging out.

53:59

But we were there as like those last pillars are dropping. And so of course we were very saddened to see it happen in southern

54:05

Ireland which is dominated primarily by professing Catholics. And to see them lose hold the way that they did was shocking to us.

54:15

I didn't think it would happen, but it did. And then northern Ireland just recently lost on this issue and the pillar fell.

54:22

So now no value for human life. No reason to say there's any value to human life.

54:28

We'll kill our babies in the womb. Well in the north it wasn't even something they lost. It was kicked over.

54:35

The government saying, nope, you're doing this. I don't care what you think. Because they don't want it. They don't want it.

54:40

I would just I love that I'm going to switch gears a little bit here, but I can tell you what eschatology the pilgrims did not hold to.

54:50

They were not pre -millennialists I can tell you that much. I love the quote that Zach dropped right before he got off was

54:57

Bradford or was it Standish, whatever one he was saying I think it was Bradford, he was saying they were willing to basically lie down in the mud and let the generations after them walk across their backs.

55:09

That's big time. We've lost that. The church has lost that. Concern from the next generation. We don't think about that anymore.

55:16

That's a powerful quote to think about. Whether they were post -mill or on -mill they were doing work and they were thinking long term they were thinking generations after them they weren't just there.

55:29

Think about it. They wouldn't have left. They wouldn't have gone to Holland. They wouldn't have crammed 120 people in a boat or whatever for two months if they were ready to be raptured off the earth.

55:41

At least the dominant view of the future of the Puritans was an optimistic view of the future and the kingdom of Jesus.

55:49

You see they were building. They were working. They were laboring. The Christian worldview is infecting every aspect of their creativity, their art, their music everything.

55:59

I do think it's funny I'm glad he mentioned it too. Did you see the article I sent you? Did you read the article about the Puritans? I saw it but I didn't get a chance to read it.

56:06

They loved sex and beer and all those things. People are weird about that because they think the way you learn about it in school is these very stiff, unhappy people.

56:15

Puritanical is not a compliment. Yeah, exactly. It's a bad thing.

56:20

You're a Puritan. You're a curmudgeon. The Puritans weren't perfect people but they were awesome people. I love that story about a person being disciplined by his local church because he wouldn't be physically intimate with his wife.

56:30

They were like, no, you had better. It's interesting to sort of come out of the spin you got in public school.

56:44

I'm a public school kid. What I always understood about the origins of our nation and the

56:51

Puritans, the Pilgrims was something far different than what is actually true. I've had to do a lot of undoing in my own mind in terms of really understanding what they thought, what they believed, what they were about.

57:02

It's nice to have him on today to talk about that. To talk about the real Thanksgiving. What actually happened.

57:08

It's an amazing story. Who did we have on before we talked about Squanto? That's somewhere in our history.

57:14

That can't be missed. Was it Elizabeth Warren? She's like, my cousin Squanto. My cousin

57:20

Squanto. I was the chieftain. Somewhere in Apologia's podcast history or our show history here.

57:30

We did a show on Squanto. I think it was with... I can't believe I'm forgetting this right now.

57:35

The guy that has the famous history thing. David Barton. Was it

57:40

Barton that told us about Squanto? Maybe. When you have six years of shows you can't remember.

57:46

Go look it up. Apologia Radio. Google Apologia Radio or Apologia Studios and Squanto.

57:55

That show was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was such an awesome experience learning about the

58:03

Christian history of Squanto. It was trippy. I feel like I need to start making popcorn on Thanksgiving too.

58:11

Gooey popcorn. Stored in leather sacks. By the way, last night we're ending here.

58:18

We have a minute and a half left. We're going to tell you guys a story about eating calf fries. Last night we have an annual time where we take the

58:27

Apologia Studios ministry crew and we have an annual Christmas dinner party together. Last night was our night so we had everybody there.

58:35

It's nice to see that that crew is growing. People who support and love this work and laying their lives down.

58:41

The cultish team was there last night. Jerry and Andrew, Casey, his wife. We had of course Isaac and Jessica and some of the kids because we couldn't get babysitters.

58:52

It was awesome. Do you want me to tell the story of the calf fries? I don't want to. I'll tell everyone.

58:58

I'm trying to forget about it. For me, I see on the thing that I hate seafood by the way.

59:04

I can't stand seafood. I can do fish and chips in Ireland. That doesn't really count as seafood.

59:12

We go to this nice restaurant and all they have for appetizers is seafood so I'm like, oh bummer. Then I see it says calf fries and I'm like, ooh,

59:19

I'm going to order the calf fries. It must be like french fries with pieces of steak on it or something. I find out the calf fries are not french fries.

59:29

They're not french fries. There's no steak involved either. No, no. Calf fries are calf testicles.

59:36

Are we sure? They have to be calf testicles. You're out of the line. I heard Rocky Mountain Oysters are actually pig testicles.

59:42

That's what I thought but I don't know. Jessica said I was wrong. It's weird that we eat these things as humans.

59:48

When we go to the restaurant, they tell you, oh no, that's like Rocky Mountain Oysters. Those are calf testicles. Everyone's like, ew, no.

59:55

Of course, I was like, never. Then Jerry from Cultish, Jeremiah goes, I'm super excited.

01:00:01

I'm super excited about eating these calf fries. Those of you guys that listen to Cultish, you'll know.

01:00:07

Super Sleuth was like, let me figure this out. Let me investigate these calf fries a little bit. Jerry said, I'm super excited.

01:00:13

He ordered them and he got the calf fries. Several other people were like, I'll go ahead and try some.

01:00:18

Joy, she tried calf fries. While holding her daughter. Her husband,

01:00:24

Matthew, he ate calf fries. My son. Then my son was there. He ate calf fries. We filmed it but it was really, really hard to watch people eat fried cow testicles.

01:00:36

Why would you do that? I can understand the pilgrims doing it because they're really hungry. I think maybe even the pilgrims were like, eh.

01:00:44

You haven't eaten for two months. Have some calf fries. They were like, meh, no.

01:00:53

Look, Andrew Sunkran. He's smiling right now because he knows he was there.

01:01:00

They eat them and I was like, you've got to describe what's it like to eat that part of an animal.

01:01:05

Joy said, you can tell it's not the normal part of an animal you would eat. That was her description.

01:01:12

Matthew said it tasted like what McDonald's makes their chicken nuggets out of. Jerry just said it tasted like a bland chicken nugget.

01:01:20

My son said, I don't want to describe what I'm eating right now. It was gross.

01:01:26

That's a story from our lives. That was a story from our annual Christmas party. Dinner was calf fries.

01:01:32

The pilgrims came over on the meh flower and they were like, I ain't eating those. They were like, meh, no.

01:01:41

Man, so many of them died. Here's the worst thing. You've lived at East Coast.

01:01:47

Yeah, I did for five years. You know how cold it gets in December. Yeah. I'm from Chicago, so that's not that cold.

01:01:55

They came over in December and they're trying to build when it's that cold. The ground must have been so hard.

01:02:01

It would have been icy. It would have been horrible. What an awful experience. Especially in Massachusetts. All right, guys.

01:02:10

Thank you guys for watching the Real First Thanksgiving. I am Jeff. They call me the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear right there. God bless you.

01:02:16

You only need some ketchup and Tabasco sauce for calf fries. See, Alan, let me just tell you.

01:02:22

Anything that you need to cover up with that much stuff doesn't need to go in your mouth. All right? Anything.

01:02:30

Let's continue this discussion here for a moment. Since you brought it up, Alan, I feel that way about lobster myself, personally.

01:02:38

I think if you have to cover... They give you a bowl of butter when they give you lobster, and they're like, here's your butter to soak...

01:02:47

Your lobster is to soak the butter up. But I feel like the lobster is just a utensil for butter.

01:02:52

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Do you like lobster?

01:02:59

Yeah, I've had it. It's pretty good. I think you can get bad lobster, but I haven't had a ton of it.

01:03:05

I just feel like if you have to put that much stuff on something, it probably isn't good. I had a really good crab cake last night.

01:03:12

Did you? Everyone had a lot of dessert, too, didn't they? Yeah, especially Isaac. Three desserts.

01:03:19

I was like, hey guys, there's a minimum we have to pay for a party this size, so just go ahead and get some desserts.

01:03:26

Get what you like. Isaac's like, well, let me have this one, that one, and that one over there.

01:03:31

I'll get them all. Right, Isaac? I knew this was coming. Isaac, how were all of your desserts last night?

01:03:41

Were they good? No, they were good. They were good. I was just trying to make sure we met the limit.

01:03:49

Did you enjoy yourself is the most important thing. I did enjoy myself. We'll know next time if we say, hey, get what you like.

01:03:55

We had a great time with you. We love Isaac, by the way. It's been a great year. I hope next year for 2020 we can start getting some video content and teaching stuff with Isaac.

01:04:03

I've been telling him to, he just won't do it. Just as a hint, there may be a podcast possibly coming out next year.

01:04:11

We've got a couple of things coming out next year. 2020 is going to be a big year, guys. Alright, you dip the calf fries in ketchup like french fries.

01:04:21

See, Alan, but what I'm telling you is anything you have to cover in ketchup like that means you don't really like it.

01:04:26

It doesn't actually taste good. You're just tasting ketchup. Eureka, see, that's what

01:04:32

I'm saying to you. She has a point. Lobster tastes good, but I have to ignore it as a giant sea insect to enjoy.

01:04:39

My thing is that lobsters are the cockroaches of the sea. She has a good point.

01:04:46

It's basically like a scorpion in the bottom of the sea. That's right. The scorpions of the sea.

01:04:54

Alright, guys, thank you guys for watching. Enjoyed being with you today. Thank you for watching the real first Thanksgiving.

01:05:00

We will catch you guys next week on Apologia Radio. ApologiaStudios .com is where you guys will go to get more, get all the podcasts, radio shows, episodes, debates, all those things.