"Love Wins"

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight, seven. Seven seven five three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Responding to Catholic Answers Forum Criticism

And good morning. Welcome to the dividing line on a special Monday morning. Hey, we can do this anytime we want to and so we're on a Monday today. Lots of stuff to cover today. I was directed over the weekend to a thread that has developed on the Catholic Answers web forum.

I don't go over there myself but James Swan does and everyone's follow say hey, you're still loved over there and. So I went over and someone had posted something. I had written long long time ago it's I even linked to my blog it's to somebody else's website, but The top ten questions for those considering conversion to Roman Catholicism and What I appreciate was all top ten were there they weren't edited unlike certain Catholic forums.

Roman Catholic forums where. Well, you you can't even put a women or grit disappears stuff like that, it's sort of sort of funny but anyhow the whole thing was posted. I started reading through the through the comments and I was just glad that it was there and You know, I expected pretty quickly that you know.

Some people would throw up the you know, the Catholic legate stuff and some of the lame-o stuff that's out there. But I wondered how long will it take? Before it just goes ad hominem. Because the people in the Catholic answers forums The they're an amazing group of people.

They really are there's there's some there's some interesting interesting people in those forums and I was scrolling through and you know wasn't getting a whole lot of stuff here. You know, I was getting a few things a Few response.

I finally got down to the to the end of the first page. There's currently four pages of comments in the Catholic answers web forum and a guy named mark a regular member joined in 2004 has posted just under six thousand times.

Okay, so I don't know who mark a is but His sole response is a single line and it says Isn't this the guy who was so vile? He drove his own sister into the Catholic Church with triple question marks at the end now some people you know, they hear something like that and and they I mean, obviously you.

The comment has to be wow. Here's a really ignorant person. Here's someone who hasn't looked into things. There's someone who's obviously willing to believe. Whatever slander liable is out there is if that's somehow relevant and that's unfortunately.

Very much the kind of person that inhabits these particular forums in general, but a lot of people ask. Doesn't that just make you angry? Don't don't you just get really upset by things like that and they go?

Well, no, not really and they why don't you don't you care? Well, yeah, I care but what you have to learn to do over time and. And Yes, yes. Yes a church. I was talking to a fellow member at church and we were talking he was he was commenting about how he.

He's getting that point in life. He's older than I am not not too much older, but he's older I am he says look by the way, this is I don't have a lot of time left and I just want people to get to the point.

When people start, you know Yammering on too long. He's he just sort of cuts him off and say could you just summarize things and you know you get to that point in life where you you realize that. You you have to be able to give the amount of credibility to someone who's saying something about you that they deserve and generally.

That amount of credibility is absolutely zero. I In the head so many times that that, you know, you know, they may be out there. They may have even written some books or they've done some speaking or something, but they've shot their own credibility so often That there's just there's none of it left.

I mean you you just can't believe a word they have to say. I mean, obviously the name Eric and Cantor comes to mind. Then you have others they've just demonstrated they have no interest in hearing anything you have to say and so their credibility is gone and you know you just I.

You have to give people the amount of credibility that they deserve and here's a guy he doesn't know me from Adam. Clearly hasn't even bothered to check into things and so he has zero credibility. And so when someone has zero credibility says something that is meant to be slanderous or libelous or whatever.

You just go you just start chuckle and you move on from there. You it just doesn't it doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. And I think a lot of people need to eventually learn that kind of thinking. Because If you don't you're gonna get really sick and tired of this kind of work very very very quickly.

You know, it's it's it's not just you need to develop a rhinoceros skin. Because there could be so many people doing everything in their power to try to Hurt you and anger you and everything else. It's not just that you also just simply have to think through the fact that.

There are some people you need to listen to what they have to say and there are other people. You just you just don't that's just all there is to it. So there are some other interesting comments later on in in the thread.

But I was just glad to see those questions asked there and you know. You say yeah, but you know, you don't get to you don't interact and things like that. No, I don't you there's there's not enough time in the day, I mean Let me just mention what I've got coming just just an illustration of not enough time today you all know that I am working on a couple of books right now and I have to try to stay focused on that, but it's very difficult to do because I mean I suppose I could run off to you know some friends house up in Prescott or something and turn off all the internet and everything else and and then I would probably lose my mind very quickly, but I Have in my hand for example a Very snazzly printed book from Harper one not exactly a friend to the Christian faith by Rob Bell Called love wins.

Yes. I got my copy finally and I let me just mention very quickly. This is the quintessential puff hardback puff hardback. What's a puff hardback? It is a hardback that could have been printed as a paperback in about half the pages that it was printed in.

I noticed when I Kindled this when I Got the Kindle version and recorded it. It was extremely short and that's why I'm almost halfway done with it. I've hardly even had time to start listening to it. I'm gonna have a little bit more to say about that, but likewise, I just got informed last evening that Bart Ehrman's newest book has just shipped called forged.

It will be available on Kindle tomorrow so I'll have that and I will get to it as quickly as I as I possibly can even maybe I might actually risk my Kindle. I Might risk my Kindle because see I don't I don't put my Kindle in my jersey pocket while I'm riding and listen to it.

I record it to an iPad or to an iPod. But it won't release until tomorrow and I've Can I'm gonna be spending many many hours on a bicycle tomorrow and therefore I could probably get through the whole book.

That's how long I'm gonna be riding if I brought the Kindle with me. So I I might do it. I might have to stick it inside like a plastic bag or something to keep it somewhat protected. But I I might go for it.

Well, we'll see. I don't know. I've got plenty of I've got nine hours of lecture on the doctrine of God from Hamsa Yusuf and a doctor Abdallah to read. I've got a 14 hour book which at high speed will be about 11 hours on the synoptic gospel Controversy and issues and things like that.

So I've got I've got plenty to keep me busy. So I don't I just don't have time to be you know playing on web forums and doing things like that but it was interesting to see that's That got posted there and to see that the same kind of I will believe anything anybody says as long as it helps me to continue to believe what I'm believing type mindset, you know still very much exists out there and I'm being being told don't do it.

If you do make sure you have a backup the data Arlen. It's a Kindle, dude. I've got Kindle on my Mac. I've got Kindle on my droid. I got Kindle on my iPad. I'm not got Kindle on my Kindle so you don't have to back it up man.

You can just always download it anytime you want. That's what's nice about the Kindle so anyway Just one other thing I'm go ahead and just do this really quickly and then we'll start hitting our calls because we have a full Bank of calls.

We have all of our phone lines are taken up and the Skype is taken up. So we are full up evidently Monday's a good day for doing dividing line. Who knew I figured it'd be really bad because Doesn't everybody have to work on Monday?

So but I I just had to I just had to comment on the The the the fulfillment of the enemy of my enemy is my friend saying because I saw Someone post it in channel again. I don't I don't check these things out winning.

Thanks, we're winning. Yeah, it's great I don't follow these things if people don't post them in the in the channel. Then I don't I don't even follow these things, but someone pointed out that that lumpy our beloved lumpy Posted a review of love wins on his blog.

Did you hear about this rich? Lumpy posted a review of love wins on his blog. Guess who the author of the review is Paul Owen Former Presbyterian turned Anglican. Yes. I know. I know that I know does Peter Lumpkins have any early idea what his theology is?

It I know he doesn't care. That's the whole point. The the the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So you've I Mean I am so much closer to lumpy's theology then Paul Owen could ever be but it doesn't matter.

No, no, no. No, and I did note a few things here Owen says. Let me just start out by saying that there is nothing particularly amazing about the theological contents of this book. His theology is evangelical Arminian and Baptist now if you go back to like 2004, you'll you'll get to find all sorts of things that people like Well, Paul Owen has said about Baptists and things like that and that's just a long line.

I mean, I don't I didn't even bother going back to look at these things. But I'm sure lumpy didn't bother to do that either, but that's okay but if if This man if Rob Bell is Evangelical Arminian and Baptist.

I'm not sure any of those words other Arminian still has any meaning. He is exactly right the foundation of Rob Bell's Neo-universalism is Arminianism. There's no doubt about this man detests reformed theology.

If you if you follow the line theology matters and you read Rob Bell's book Wow, you are you are blown away on the back on The back of the book. God loves us God offers us everlasting life by grace freely through no merit on our part.

Unless you do not respond the right way, then God will torch you forever in hell. Huh? That's what that's what the back the picture of Rob Bell and his superstar mode that's that's what's on the back of the of the of the book now, of course the whole point here and and one of the things that that bothered me about Owen's review as he keeps saying it Bell's questions are fair.

Now. The whole point is that Bell's questions aren't fair. Bell's questions are directed toward his own evangelical background his own Arminian fundamentalist evangelical background and Hence are focused upon the inconsistencies thereof.

There's no question about that, but his use of questions are not fair at all and they do not lead to deep thought. It is it is a very specific way of Non-theological Dialogue, but I'm gonna skip over most what I had it goes.

We do have all these calls I need to get to. I Just want to get this one one thing in the review, which I thought was very very interesting. He did rightly criticize Bell on a number of points. He didn't bring out the the Luther thing, but Just read this this little portion because this is actually where it's serious and there is we do need to be thinking Seriously about some of the things that the book raises.

Bell's discussion of Colossians 1 in chapter 5 is a helpful reminder of the cosmic scope of redemption. Colossians 120 states the purpose of Jesus death was a reconciliation of all things to himself and that would include all the invisible orders of Angelic beings as well.

The church is the center of that reconciliation and the means of entering into its subjective benefit. But the goal of this action moves beyond the church to embrace all things. This must be part of what Paul speaks of in Philippians 2 10 through 11 How every knee will bow and every tongue will one day swear allegiance to the enthroned Son of God now.

You need to listen to that and you need to know what its background is because if you're listening with conservative ears You're not hearing what Owen's saying because he's not a conservative but at least in the as we would do these things.

But anyways. Then he says these listen to this and remember this is on lumpy's blog SBC tomorrow. Whatever eternal punishment means it does not mean an ongoing state of hostility between God and his creation.

Even those who remain forever outside of the New Jerusalem will nonetheless be subjectively reconciled to God. Though without the blessing and reward that would belong to the elect in heaven. Now think about that you need to think about that, what does that mean?

What does what does that mean? Colossians 1 20 needs to be dealt with but what does that mean that? It does not mean an ongoing state of hostility between God and his creation. That would mean there. There really can't be any element of God's wrath in hell if reconciliation means what Owen says it means and That would also mean there's been a subjective change In the non elect person who is an undergoing eternal punishment, whatever that is.

So there is no longer any entity. Now I would say that that act of reconciliation has to do with the foundation of God's judgment in the sacrifice of Christ. And it has nothing to do with the idea that the non elect or somehow changed and and now become friends of God or anything Else.

I mean if the wrath of God Has any meaning whatsoever that meaning of reconciliation of tapanta of all things would by necessity Result in universals and that there's no other meaning it's you're left going.

Well, God's wrath is satisfied, but there's not actually a wholeness of relationship. But it's some type of you're just left with nothing but questions and maybe that's all he has. I don't know I don't know where Owen is theologically anymore.

I gave up tracking him when he went Anglican at some point years and years ago. I don't even I don't care. It's irrelevant to me but It is fascinating to find that kind of thing on lumpy's blog Defending Eric and canner and posting follow it.

What can you say? It's it's an interesting interesting world out there anyway. So we will have information on forged coming up. We want to jump on that as quickly as we can it. I sort of feel sorry for anybody that has released a book at this particular point in time because they've all just fallen flat.

Because everybody's talking about one book, which is a that's a puff piece. I mean it really is. I mean, I'm looking at the font here and It's it's just it reminds me of Scott Hahn's book on Mary which was you know again could have been put out With it.

I mean, why doesn't that why don't the green people complain about this? I mean look at all the trees that died. He could have made it a third of the size that it actually is but that's not the way it worked.

Anyway, that's just a few comments to get things started here on the program here on the dividing line. We have a bazillion phone calls to get to and so we're gonna start getting to them and let's talk to.

Oh my goodness I'm sorry Rology, please call back. We'll get to you immediately. I apologize for that. It's just a matter of the wrong wrong button and Please call back and we will get you right on the air.

So we'll talk to our Skype caller and talk with Matt. Hi, Matt. Hello Matt, hello Matt, okay, we don't have a Matt. You said hang on. Okay, all right, we're gonna talk to George hello George. Hello George.

Are you with me? Is anybody with me? Is the soundboard working? Are we not taking calls? What's going on here? Hello George. We had full full calls, but we don't have full calls anymore. I Will put George back on hold you can figure out what's going on with George.

Let's try Vincent's. Hello Vincent. Okay, obviously nothing is working. Hello Vincent. Hello. Hey, I got one person. Okay, all right, we'll try to get back to George. George is gone. And rich is looking very confused.

So anyway Vincent, what can we do for you?

Debate on Debate Preparation and Opponents

Hey doctor. Long time listener and first-time caller. Yes, sir. Talk to you. Yes, sir. There was. You recently had the conducting debate to the glory of God conference.

Well, I gave a talk titled that although it wasn't there wasn't a conference called that or anything.

But so my apologies. That's all and I was I was thinking is. Question is mine was. Of your many debate opponents, who do you think has done the best job and. Let me put it this way. You and I are both expert chess players.

I wouldn't I would not say that but that's okay. Well, I mean you might be you might be I am NOT so but I I've enjoyed the game just a good don't get to play it anymore and.

We know what it's like to absolutely crush Somebody in just a handful of moves, but a really good game requires a really good opponent who's really Doing a good job. And so along those same lines, which one of your opponents do you think has been best prepared and His behavior has been impeccable and did a really good job of presenting his position.

Well, I really stand out. Yeah, I.

Get I get that question a lot and and unfortunately given the the wide variety of topics I You can't compare them to one another. It's it's apples and oranges. I really don't have an answer for that. There there are people who have That there are very few people who have been prepared as far as doing any meaningful research on my position.

So that so the people that normally did the best in presenting their own position rarely were able to interact with mine because they didn't really look into my position and If they weren't prepared to prepare their own they certainly didn't Look at mine.

There were people who spent a lot of time ran ran Rambling through my books to try to find some quotes to use against me, but they almost never you know I'm thinking of Robertson Genesis just fail blog efforts to use the the fatal flaw as if this has something to do with supporting Roman Catholicism, and so you've got that kind of thing and so it's really hard to answer that question because It's apples and oranges and and and I I just don't know how to how to give a meaningful response to it I mean I can tell you which debates I I Enjoyed the most or which which people I found, you know Everybody knows that I thought John Dominic Crossan was was very very Enjoyable to to debate and things like that and then there are people who just weren't any fun to debate at all but as far as you know Sort of a Standard like that.

I I really don't know how to answer the question. Sorry.

Okay, there was one time I remember at the biting line a number of years ago. He said that Jerry Maddox actually came to one of your debates fully prepared and it made for a good debate.

Um, well, he came. Yeah. Somewhat. I mean Jerry always uses cheap debating tricks. That's just that's just his modus operandi. But what I was talking about there was we had. He had gotten into the rut of coming to every debate and saying well You know I was just moving and all my bags are all my books are in boxes someplace and I've only had a diet coke to drink.

And all I have is this yellow notepad of paper and I you know, whoa is me and so before the debate I believe on the soul of scriptura. I Actually sent him a fax or something. Somehow I got in touch with him.

I said Jerry I just like to very Respectfully request that you don't talk about David and Goliath. You don't talk about how unprepared you are. You actually show up prepared and he didn't use any of those any of those excuses.

And so I think it did Help the debate sound along those lines not have that.

Wonderful. Yeah, or your phone lines working now, or well, I believe so.

We've got the callers back that we had before and we'll see if they work. Well, I don't I don't know. We'll find out pretty quickly. Hey, thanks for listening. Okay, absolutely and.

Drop a line when you're next in Michigan. Uh.

Well, do you all have a functioning government there? Oh. Not sure if I want to show up but the government doesn't work anymore, you know, I don't know. All right, man. Thanks a lot. I'm being told I have to go to our Skype call.

I'd rather go to somebody else, but let's go to our Skype caller. Hi, Matt. Hello, Matt. Okay, you guys do not have Skype working. I do not know why you not have Skype working, but you don't have Skype working.

So Rology, how are you, sir?

Sorry about that. God glad to hear it working in many debating settings and such things with with a wide variety of people. Kind of the party or my nights. And Muslims and Roman Catholics. They they're all allude to.

You know, how do you know Matthew wrote Matthew and then they'll talk about written on them. And I was just wondering. My possibly flawed understanding was that all the manuscript copies that we have names on.

Yeah, that that's my understanding as well. Obviously when when someone like Bart Ehrman says that that was not an original part of the of the manuscript They are they are asserting and I think He'd probably have a large majority Of both textual critics and New Testament scholars in his corner on this one.

That what we have in a p46 for example the earliest collection of Paul's writings or what we would have in p66 or P75 which are coming from the the end of the second century. That those Manuscripts that titling Was not original now, how would you know that?

Well, it's it's more of a it's more of a conjecture based upon the idea that When Matthew wrote Matthew he didn't put kata Matthion at the top of each page of his original and at the very least That would have been What maybe someone did?

When they were copying that gospel decades later and they wanted to differentiate it from Kata mark on or karta kata Lukas or something like that. And say okay, this is that gospel not that gospel. This is that that's this gospel not that gospel or something like that.

And so to my knowledge. I've never seen An early papyri manuscript that did not contain those now obviously some of the fragments you can't tell for example p52. You wouldn't really know if it was at the bottom of the page or if it was at the part that was broken or Yeah, it's too small fragment.

But those that we have enough of it. Yeah, they do contain those those Names, so it's really when when we get to issues like who really wrote Matthew. Especially when we're talking about that particular question since the gospel of Matthew does not say this is the book written by Matthew it's not a hill to die on but it also raises the question of well look if Taking away other considerations if if you had the kind of evidence that we have the widespread tradition the manuscripts the early dates the manuscripts if this was any other book than the New Testament if it was something less Important would anyone really be arguing about this?

What would would there be really any question about it or? Would there be a real basis for this kind of Of agnosticism that you have amongst New Testament scholarship and especially in the the ermine Version of New Testament scholarship today, and I don't think that there would be Especially given the early date and you know remember that question that I asked ermine during our debate Where I challenged him on his talking about the immense the I'm sorry the enormous time gap between Paul's writing of Galatians and the first manuscripts we have and how I found that to be rather Disingenuous in light of the fact that for any other work of antiquity as he agreed.

It's a ginormous China. So, you know, I thought that was one of the most most important elements of that of that Cross-examination because people who know what what the background is Would have to have realized that when he talked about that enormous period of time That he was really I think misleading his audience at that point because he wasn't doing it to where it would have any meaning To secular writings and things like that.

So it's gonna be interesting. Like I said, hopefully, you know midnight tonight or something like that I'll have forged on my iPad and certainly Lord willing by Thursday I'll be able to have some sort of a report as to whether it's what I expect it to be which Given his other books.

He's already mentioned this a number of times and it's probably just going to be your standard 1870s German liberal scholarship Updated and and it's gonna be the continuation of the apostasy tour By by Bart Ehrman, but it certainly certainly brings a lot of money in the door, I guess To do this, but we'll see what he's what he's coming coming up.

He came to the University of Oklahoma a few months ago and did a presentation about forged and it was exactly what you just said. It was so you won't find any surprises. I really don't. Yeah, I don't expect it.

But isn't it amazing the free gonna get the. I bet you. How long? Let's let's take a let's start a pool. How long until he's on fresh air on NPR? Talking about forged and repeating what has been said by liberal scholarship since the 1870s and and Basically indicating that those of us who are conservatives have been hiding this from our people all along and Those of us that are graduates of Fuller Seminary.

We bang our heads on the desk over and over again.

So as a member of a Southern Baptist Church, I cannot in good conscience.

What if it's at Disney.

The original question I was asking is it's not it's not that I'm proposing and you know. Obviously you've never done this. To say well, I mean all the copies that we have say kata, right? Right, but they bring it up as a rebuttal to you and it just seems like a naked assertion.

You know, why can't I just say well, I just I simply conjecture that the original did have it.

So right, I guess we're done here. Well, unfortunately, yeah, but they they get away with and My email box is giving me many many more examples of people writing me saying hey, you know I I listened to your debate with Ermin and I listened to you're talking about this and so I asked him a question.

After a public talk he gave and his response was the same type response. He gave the infidel guy. It's all it's all authority. Believe me because I am the James a gray distinguished professor of religion that At such-and-such a school, you know, it's all the authority thing.

Not the well Here's the here's the logical rational reasoning why this is this is the case. So.

I asked him some challenging questions, too. And that was the exact same thing. Really? Yeah. Yeah. See I it's.

There you go. There's there's the Academy for you. Believe me because I I believe my own press. Thanks, thanks, I bless. Okay, I'm being told to go to Matt. Hello, Matt. Hi, dr. White, can you hear me?

You had you had all of us just a little bit nervous there for about a third of a second. We're starting to wonder what's going on with the phone lines here today. It's raining in Phoenix. So, you know when stuff that is as dry as the desert and Phoenix gets wet weird things happen.

So I guess that maybe that's what's going on. But what could we do for you Matt?

Before I Make my comments here. I just want to say I watched your video on Rob Bell. And I almost got a little worried about you because you looked so skinny.

Well, thank you very much, but that is called healthy eating and currently for this riding year six thousand four hundred miles on the back of a bike, so that's that's exactly what I want to be and I have learned at my when you're pushing 50.

There are other other things that that indicate health then what's your bench press is like resting heart rate cholesterol blood pressure Vo to max and things like that. So I I'm just I'm just focusing upon what what really matters as far as health goes.

So I'm doing great. I appreciate your concern but to continue to pray for me because I I do Sometimes end up out there playing with the cars and the trucks on the roads. So I don't want to end up as a a hood ornament on a Mac.

I keep a close eye out. But I'll be honest. I'll tell you what the scariest part is I was riding up in Flagstaff last summer and I I wear a rearview mirror. It makes me look like a jerk. You know, I but I wear a rearview mirror on my glasses and it looks dumb.

But I looked in it and I look behind me and I'm on a wide open road. It's those of you who know Flagstaff it's the lake Lake Mary Road and There's cyclists out there all the time and I see a guy in a pickup truck and He is halfway his he is taking up the entirety of the cycling lane and he's only got one tire in the regular lane.

You know what? He's doing. Everybody knows what he was doing. He was texting. He was looking down and he would drifted right over and he's heading right for me now. Thankfully, I didn't have to dive off the road because he looked up and whoa.

You know and he jerks over and and almost into oncoming traffic and the whole nine yards because he was texting. But I saw it and I saw him coming and I was sitting there going. Okay, what do I do when it's time to bail off which direction am I going and so on so forth?

So I do keep my eyes open, but that's not why you called Matt. But thank you for thank you for your concern.

Yeah, well, I don't want you to turn out as a road pizza either, but. Yeah. Wanted to call you about was that yeah, I'm going into a seminary called Covington Seminary in Aikens, South Carolina. And I'm auditing a couple of classes.

I have on hermeneutics and one on the cult. Okay, and Mike yeah, my professor Is using Ergon Kanner as a source of authority of information. Mm-hmm. Now we haven't studied his law and so we are studying Buddhism and we Two videos that are on Gantt tube from a channel called Liberty online.

And they were called the story of Buddhism and the worldview of Buddhism now before he gets up. Before he turns the videos on he gets up and he calls him He's pretty much the greatest apologist in the world.

And I of course, I'm I'm totally familiar with everything that happened in the past year and a half. So I'm kind of like Okay, how do I go about? Bringing this up to my Right, so I went ahead and I didn't ask anything in the middle of the class.

Of course, I waited till the end and then I asked him and I asked you some questions and and he's a real nice guy. So he said sure about a variety of issues. I asked him if he heard about the scandal that occurred here.

And he said he said yes, then. Well, what do you think of that? I mean this gentleman is somebody you're using as a source to teach your students. What do you think when you have all these people saying that Eric and can't her is a Is an untrustworthy source for how many numerous reasons and he said well.

The one of the first things he said was that well this information is on the Internet. So, I mean, I don't know how much you want to trust the information on the Internet and I told him well I mean this information on the Internet is from self-studied Theologians not just a bunch of white pizza-faced nerds on their mom's computer and so in response to that.

Let me just let me start to study there for a moment Matt. It's not the scholarship of the people that is that are pointing things out as far as canners concerned the fact the matter is what we're talking about is either legal documents or Audio and video recordings that no one has ever claimed.

Were not the actual voice or likeness of Eric and canner so the the the value of the Documentation is that it is firsthand. I mean it is the best. What's the best kind of documentation you can have for anybody but audio and video recordings of the person themselves?

Making the statements and then having legal documents that then back up what is said. So I I think that none of this has had anything to do with who it is asking the questions. That's always been a red herring.

Whether it's Mohammed Khan or myself or anybody else who we are is only slightly Relevant here. The point is these are video tapes and they have not been edited. They have not been changed. Eric and canner made these claims claimed to have been born in Istanbul claimed to have been raised in Turkey claimed to come here 1979 it was all lies and it's been documented to be lies now and that's that's the real issue that I think needs to be Dealt with it.