Jesus if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Really?

Opening Banter and Show Introduction

Apologetics Live! We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

We are live! Apologetics Live here to answer your questions, challenges, or anything else you may have for us. We can answer any question you have about God and the Bible. You doubt that? Well, join us, give us your greatest challenge, and let us see if we can answer your question.

How do you do that? Go to ApologeticsLive .com. There is a button to watch there. You can watch it there. You can go a little bit further down, and there you have instructions on how, if you're watching on Facebook, how to include your name.

So, when we pop up comments, let's see, like this, who said, dot post mill? Well, that's Facebook user, and if Facebook user who is saying dot post mill was to put his, follow the instructions, we would say, we would know who is saying, just for you, lol, instead of just calling him Facebook user, but he says, love you, brother.

So, see, because then we can look at here, see, Chris knows how to do it and says, dot, or hashtag, premill. So, clearly, Chris not only knows how to use the software properly, but has the right theology.

It's probably, my guess, we'll see if Facebook user is, my guess, Pastor Darren Steed. We will see if I'm right. Maybe he can let us know. Oh, Brandon Scalf. Oh, I was off. Okay. Well, thank you for that, Justin.

Yeah, well, birds of a feather flock together, or, you know, oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble, Justin. Let me bring Pastor Justin, and I'm going to get myself in trouble. You know, I saw a line from Matt Slick when we were on, we were at the Apologetics Cruise, and this is a bad one to use, but what Matt actually said was, demons of a feather flock together.

And I don't know, should I use that with those two characters? Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not. They're actually good guys. No, they're good guys. Even if their eschatology is off. Yeah. But that's okay. We won't hold it against them.

They'll be right. They'll be right for eternity. So, for that. All right. So, what we're going to do today is I got about an hour of video for us to play through. Folks, let me just say up front, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Forgive me for putting you through this, but I actually had to live through it, and you're going to get to watch. After one of the shows on Apologetics Live, we had someone that came into our Christian Apologetics group and wanted to invite me onto a show of theirs.

And so, I said, well, you know, they wanted to work together and have a Bible study. I said, we have Apologetics Live. You can come on anytime. And after one of the shows, the guy said, hey, look, I missed your show, but you want to come on and just share the gospel for 15 minutes.

It was a setup. It was not what I expected. And we're going to play what happened. And we're going to talk through this and give you guys, well, it's going to be helpful in this sense. You may get stuck in a situation where you get set up, you run into a cultic group, you think that someone is a solid believer, and you find out they're not.

You hear something for the first time, and you don't go, what in the world? How do I answer this? I heard something for the very first time. I didn't know a response. I tried to gather information, but I'm going to point out, well, the practices that cultic groups have and why it's hard to get answers from them and what you do at that point.

When is it appropriate to walk away when you're throwing pearls before swine? We're going to see that. We're going to see that the tactics, as I mentioned, and so I'm hoping this will be helpful for everybody, even though it'll be painful to watch.

And I admit that, I recognize that, and I'm sorry ahead of time for that. Before we get to that, though, we need to address something on some of the comments that we had. We have on YouTube, I don't really respond to the YouTube comments.

Sometimes I do, very rarely. So, what will we... Oh, this is interesting. This is about last week's comment. So, Ethan says, please pray for Cedarville University. I'm trying to get them to stop playing Bethel in Hillsong in Chapel.

There's a lot of support from the students right now. Do me a favor, contact me about that so that I can, I'm traveling. I'll be traveling first thing in the morning, so I'll probably forget, but yeah, let me call Dr. White and talk to him about that.

So, he's a, he would, I think if he understood the issues, he's a very solid brother and I would find it hard to believe he would want to support that. But then again, school, some things are out of your control.

So, but we'll definitely be praying for that. But on last week's show, there was some comments made, comments about you, Pastor Justin. So, I want to deal with this. I got a lot of comments from Ronald Small.

Now, one of the things with Facebook, or sorry, with YouTube, I don't always, there's a notifications. I click on that and I see part of a comment and I click on it and I get a totally different comment.

So, I don't quite get it, but let me read some of the other comments that I saw before that because I think that it'll build up to the one. There was one comment where he made on a video with Jason Lyle, where he said, I would not consider a Christian building that is part of a multi-religion complex to actually be Christian.

I would avoid that satanic hive at all costs. So, now this comment's actually not a bad comment per se. It needs correction. Folks, if you go to a church that rents from another church, say they rent from a cultic group, just be aware that they're not supporting the cultic group.

If they're a non-profit organization, which by definition, any church or religious group is, then by definition, when you rent out a building, you can only rent it out for utilities. Okay? You cannot rent it to make money.

This is why churches go to like a seven-day Adventist group or a synagogue or some group like that to rent because they're not supporting that group. It's not like they're paying for the public education by funding them and paying for a school or going to a hotel and funding that.

What you're doing when you're doing with non-profit is just paying the utilities. Now, there's some other things he said specifically to you, Mr. Pierce. He said, all respect for Mr. Pierce has gone now that I found out he had the vaccine.

So weak, so sold out, so sorry. I just can't respect anyone who is falling for this baloney. Now, the comment that I couldn't see, that's the one I read, the one that was in the notification said from him, Justin Pierce is already not my favorite because I find him to be weak.

Now, I find out that he took the vaccine, which just makes me see him as a sellout, even weaker. Sorry, I can't respect dot, dot, dot. That's all I had. Now, before you get upset, Justin, I also saw him comment about Jason Lyle saying that Jason Lyle's one-way speed of light being instant coming toward the earth idea works beautifully for a geocentric universe.

So, you can take that for what it's worth. But let me be clear for folks, and I've asked Justin not to say anything at this point. He did not see the things ahead of time. He didn't know about it. But here's the thing, folks.

It would be a fair assessment to say that Justin and I have differing views on the vaccine. We've made that public here. However, to call him weak or a sellout because of reasons that he chose to take a vaccine.

Well, let me be clear, please don't watch this anymore. If that's your position, we don't want you commenting, Ronald. We don't need it. In fact, I'm almost tempted to block you if you say anything more negative about him.

Because what you're doing is showing the legalism that everyone must submit to your views and your views you put up and say that if people don't hold to your view, they're a sellout. You show me in the Bible where it says that you must not take the vaccine to be a Christian, and I'll accept that.

You're not going to find that, Ronald. Do you know why? It's not there. That is your legalism. And the Bible does speak about legalism. In fact, there's an entire book devoted to legalism, the book of Galatians.

So go read that because what Paul says is anyone that adds to the gospel is anathema. That's not me saying that. That's Paul by the inspirational Holy Spirit saying that. So if you want to say that Justin is a sellout because he doesn't submit to your worldview, then your worldview, since it doesn't align with the Bible, it's adding to the gospel, you're not saved.

You need to repent. Now, this is not coming from someone that agrees with Justin. I do not agree with his position. But the fact that I disagree doesn't mean that I sit here and question his Christianity or whether he's a sellout or whether he's a genuine Christian or calling him weak.

I'm sorry. I'm going to stick up for the truth and I'm going to stick up for someone whose character I know. You don't know his character. You don't know the reasons he took a vaccine. So you should have first asked that question before you made an assessment.

You can't make an assessment of why he did that just by the fact that he said he did that. I can make an assessment on what you're saying because, well, you said that and I compare it and say, well, scripture commands me in Corinthians to judge you based on your behavior since you claim to be a Christian.

And yeah, I judge you as needing the gospel. Sorry. I know most shows would not tell people not to listen, but you know, I just don't have a lot of patience for folks who are going to call someone out in that way.

Now, let me see if this is going to work. I've lost permission. Hold on. I have to go and give for me. I'm on a new browser. And so while you're there, I appreciate you doing that, brother. I.

Really do. You know, just so everybody knows, I don't mind saying it. Five years ago, I had surgery that almost killed me. And then I had to have a reconstructive surgery to fix my problem right before COVID.

And at the time, everybody thought in the world thought it was deadly.

I got to drop out and come back in is what it's telling me. So I'm going to go do that.

You keep going. I'll keep going. So just so everybody knows, I didn't take the COVID vaccine because I thought it was something that would make me saved or not. I took it because right after my surgery, the virus came out and we were told that I was in a high risk category.

Trump was doing the vaccine, working on the vaccines and stuff. And the evidence I saw said I should probably get it. At the time, you know, we were all in panic mode and I didn't take it lightly. And I just want everybody to know, I don't think Andrew's a Christian or not a Christian based on COVID.

I understand his reasons. I understand his arguments. I understand the people that don't want to take it. And I completely understand. At the time, I felt like, hey, you know, I better take it because it seems like it's going to be something very dangerous.

And so that's why I took the vaccine just the same way as I took, you know, the flu vaccine last year and the way I'll take it again. You know, it's just, it's a vaccine, take it or don't. You know, Melissa, you said, you know, I appreciate you doing this.

You're saying this. I appreciate you saying that. I'm sorry, Joanne. You don't owe us an explanation, Justin. And I appreciate that, but I don't want somebody to think, you know, Andrew and I, we disagree on the vaccine, but I agree with him on his concern over it.

You know, the more things that I've learned, the more things I've seen, the more concerns that there are, and we do need to be concerned and we do need to care about, you know, getting these things right.

It's something that we need to care about. Yes, there's government overreach and yes, there's all kinds of problems. Guys, we've argued against socialism from day one, you know, and that's what we're seeing, tyranny, socialism.

You know, you take the vaccine or you can't work, you can't eat, you can't go out and do things. We've seen that. And I don't stand for any of that. I don't support it in any way. You know, my job is to proclaim the gospel.

And in my mind, if it's going to help me be able to do ministry, then I, you know, if it's not going to be deleterious, I'm going to take, you know, the precautions that I can, you know, to prolong my life long enough to share the gospel and proclaim the gospel with everyone.

And I do appreciate Andrew, you know, brother, he's, you know, Andrew's one of my best friends, dear brother. And, you know, we don't disagree on hardly anything. You know, this is one area we have some disagreement on, but we don't hardly disagree on anything.

So for him to stand up for me means more to me than anybody else. And I.

Appreciate it. You're welcome. Well, let's take a look at this now. Let me move this. Let me remove the banner here. Okay. So what you're seeing on the screen, folks, is you're going to see a guy at the top.

His name is Patrick. Second guy is Orgen. I forget how to pronounce it. He'll mention it on the show. Now, the other guy is a Dr. Matthew. This is a guy who was invited into the show very much like me.

I'm skipping the first six minutes of what happened. The first six minutes, they brought him in, they invited him in, just as they invited me in. They did the same thing to him that they did with me. They explained, well, we're here to talk about the gospel, and they each explained the gospel.

And then they asked him to explain the gospel. Now, I did ask Dr. Matthew if he'd want to join us to share his experience, what he experienced with this group. He didn't feel he was really good on live streams.

He's from India, so different time zone. You know, he and I would probably not agree. He didn't get to talk much, but he's Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox. It was a different Orthodox, and I because of his accent, I couldn't pick up what he was saying.

But what he was doing was going to the creeds. Okay, that's not necessarily a bad thing to go to creeds. But, you know, they seemed as if this is their behavior. This is what this group does, is invite people in, and they make it sound like, hey, we're here, we want to talk about the gospel.

The invite that they gave me was, would you join us and talk about the gospel for 15 minutes? And once you get in there, it's an ambush. Okay, they set the trap. Now, Dr. Matthew started to recognize that as soon as I came in.

They're like, oh, Andrew Rappaport. Okay. And they suddenly ignored him. And you'll see at one point where they actually, you know, I try to hand it back because I felt bad for Dr. Matthew here, who's trying to speak.

And they're like, no, you know, like, you know, this guy Borgen is like, no, Andrew, I'm talking to Andrew, you know. So, let me let you up front know the practices that you see with groups. So, you can see them, you'll spot them often and be able to see when someone's setting you up like this.

What are some cultic practices? Well, one of the things you're going to see with these guys is they're going to, when asked a simple yes, no question or any direct question, they're not going to answer directly.

What these guys do is just recite scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture, giving no context to any one of them. But they'll have one word that each of them mentioned, and they ignore the context.

And what they do is just by saying, by what you're supposed to do is think that the scripture supports their view because they put all these scriptures together and the scriptures have the similar words in it.

That's called proof texting. What you're going to even see is at one point, I'm going to ask them, let's back up and look at the context of all these things. They don't want to do that. They can't answer simple questions.

And when challenged, they're going to say, well, no, we only talk scripture here. And what they want me to do is be like them and only cite scripture verses. The irony is when I was doing that without giving the references, when I was just quoting scripture, they actually claimed that I don't use scripture.

And at one point, I'm even going to say, you don't know your scriptures if you don't realize just because it doesn't have the citation doesn't mean it's scripture. Now, one thing I didn't realize because I didn't see the beginning of the show until I was already off the show was the fact that the guy in the second one there, he's the main talker and he believes in the King James Bible.

Now, what you're going to see, folks, it took me a bit to figure it out, and I'm still not 100 clear on what they're teaching. But essentially, they believe that Jesus is the name of the Father. Jesus is the name of the Son.

Jesus is the name of the Holy Spirit. But Jesus is not God. He's the Son of God. Okay. It's non-modalism. You're going to hear, and the reason I'm playing this is I think this will be helpful for us to see, what do you do in a situation like this?

You hear something, it's false teaching, you don't know it. You're going to watch me try to gather information. It's hard to gather information because you're dealing with what Greg Koukl will refer to as steamrollers.

Guys that just want to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and not let you get a word in edgewise. How do you deal with that? Well, what Greg Koukl would say is you arrange, you ask for rules.

You speak, I speak, and then when they don't follow the rules, you shame them. And then at one point, you leave. Well, you're going to see that. You're going to watch me get to a point where I'm going to leave.

And I'm going to tell them when I leave, hey, I'm leaving. And you guys in your pride, you're going to sit there and claim that you want a victory. I'm leaving because you're not letting me speak. And then I leave.

And sure enough, they go, he couldn't handle it. Oh, he's a coward. He ran. Well, folks, let me be clear. We know who the cowards are. I told these guys, I challenged them to a formal debate, a debate where we have equal time, and they would have to actually prove their case.

Silence. Crickets. Actually, one of these buttons is the cricket sound we see. There we go. There we go. Crickets. That's what I got. You know why? Because they can't answer. They didn't want to. What they want to do is do this where they have, now in this, you only see two of the guys and one's going to be the main speaker.

Later, two more are going to come in and it's going to be four on one. And they're just rapid fire. This is no different. If you go back to when I taught you how to deal with black Hebrew Israelites, it was the same thing.

You try to isolate one because they're all going to try and do a gang mentality. That's why they don't want a one-on-one. They don't want a time debate because in those things, they have to be able to use a reasonable answer and they don't have one.

That's why they use these tactics. I want you to be able to see these things. Let's play through this. Justin, if you find something you feel I need to stop, just stop me. This is an hour long. I do want to try to play it.

Now, I will give a warning just for the sake of time. I hope this isn't hard for folks. I'm glad I did check this. I had it at double speed. I'm going to be playing this at one and a quarter speed. A little bit quicker.

Just so you know, it's going to be a little quicker so we can get through it. You can see here they went for two and a half hours. This is at minute six. Let's listen. Hey, man. Welcome. Andrew Rappaport.

Hello. How are you? Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. All right. You sound like, what's his name there? Dave Ramsey.

That's his favorite. No, I sound like Chief. You're Jordan. That's where I got it from.

From who? The guy who started the seminary that I went to. Oh, okay. You went to seminary school? I did many years ago. Okay. Don't hold it against me. Oh, we won't. We won't. We won't hold the scripture against you.

Okay. One of the things that you pick up early on, just so you see it is, and I don't know why this is jumpy a bit, but hopefully that'll work out. One of the things you see early on is they're not a big fan of seminary.

Something you're going to see with different groups. Any group that belittles education and says, oh, just scripture, just scripture, that's a warning sign, folks. It's a warning sign to any person that says that they just have scripture, because that is a method of what you end up seeing there is you see people that do that is they, it sounds spiritual,.

But it's actually pride. Pride. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. But let's continue and hopefully it won't be jumpy here. So do you know for sure if you're going to heaven?

According to God's word. Yeah. Okay. And why, Andrew, why should God let you into heaven?

We shouldn't. Absolutely shouldn't.

It says we should not perish, but have everlasting life. So I think we should.

So right there, I'm thinking, wait, do you know the scriptures all have fallen short of the glory of God and he thinks we should, but didn't get into that. Remember at this point, I'm still thinking this is a friendly group.

I'm thinking this is a group that came into our Christian apologetics as say, they've been following this ministry and wanted me on. I'm thinking it's friendly. Well, but we all fall short of God's glory.

And so we deserve eternity and lake of fire. But by his grace, he has given some eternal life. And so do I deserve it? No, I don't deserve heaven. Will I be there? I'll be there by his grace because what he did on the cross, when he, he died in my place by a transaction on the cross of imputation, where he took my sin upon himself.

And in exchange gives me his righteousness. So. And so what happened after he died? Is there, is there more to the story here? Oh, there's way more to the story. The gospel, the gospel by which we're saved by.

Why don't you?

Well, I mean, in its shortest, in its shortest is what I said, right? It's imputation is the fact that there was an exchange. We break God's law. We sin. We violate his, his law there because he's an eternal being, because he has, he is eternally holy.

He is, you know, it carries with it an eternal consequence. And so the consequence is a consequence of punishment. That punishment is we'd refer to as the lake of fire. And so that's what we all deserve.

However, God came to earth, became a human being so that he could be a sacrificial substitute for us. And in doing so, when he went to the cross as an eternal being God, also being a man who lived perfectly, never breaking the law as a man, he could be a sacrifice for us, but being eternal God, he can pay an eternal fine.

And so if it wasn't for the fact that he was eternal, we would, we wouldn't be able to pay the eternal fine. And so this is what makes Christ unique. He's a fully man so that he could be that sacrifice for human beings being fully God.

He is eternal and can pay that fine once in time, but he being an eternal being, it counts for all of eternity. And so he doing that actually reveals the only religion where you can have a God who's both just and merciful when it comes to people who go to being able to go to heaven.

Because if God is just, he has to punish sin. He's merciful. He can let people go. But he was able to be both just and merciful by paying the fine himself. And then he can let us go. And so what happened was he died on a cross.

That was the payment of sin. But the proof that he was who he said he was, that he's almighty God, the proof that we can know that we can have eternal life is that he rose himself from the dead, something that dead people don't do.

Dead people rot. That's what dead people do. But he being God rose himself from the dead so that it would vindicate to people to know that he is who he claimed he was and claiming to be God. He also claimed he had the authority to forgive sin.

And, you know, he did that. And so those who receive him have the right to be called God. And how do you receive him? Well, which is the verse that you have right there on the on the screen there, right?

He came into the world. Yeah. So and so he came into the world. The world was made by him that knew him not. He came into his own and his own received him not. But as many as receive him have the power to become sons of God, even to them that believe in his name.

So we receive him by it's a step of.

Repentance, something that God does upon us. Can you show me that in Scripture, the step of.

Repentance? OK, so this is just there you go. Yeah, this is where I'm going to start to go. This group may not be so friendly. This is the start of it because I'm going he's questioning repentance. Now, this is where I'm starting.

In my mind, I'm just letting you guys know what's going on in my mind. Of course, I stopped it at a bad spot that look at my face. My face looks bad when I stop like I look like I'm falling asleep there.

The but at this point in my mind, and I want to share with you guys what I'm thinking at different times so you understand so you can learn from this and maybe this week will be helpful. What would end up having that OK, he's challenging repentance.

There are different groups that challenge repentance with an easy believism. That wasn't where they were going, but that's what I'm wondering. And so I'm going, OK, but the other thing that got me is show me in Scripture.

Now, is that a good thing, Justin, that we ask people like, don't we want to see it in Scripture? Sure, absolutely. OK, that's true. And yet, but there's sometimes when people are saying, show me in Scripture with that, what they're really saying is, you know, I'm not trusting what you're saying.

You know, they they they're going to try to twist the Scriptures to say what they wanted to say and then say you're not following Scripture. And that's what he's going to do. Let's listen out of the Scripture.

Well, I would say that what we would have is that God grants belief out of Philippians 129. OK, Philippians 129. Yeah. So let's see here. As he says, for it is given unto you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but to also suffer for his sake.

So when the repentance part, though, I just want to see where we have to repent. OK, so you see what happened there? You know, he's asking the question and and, you know, I think he's asking the question of the fact that I'm saying that repentance is on God does.

So I'm trying to bring him to where, you know, this is I'm I'm wondering where we're at. I'm thinking he's talking easy believism. So I'm going to a passage to try to show that our belief is granted to us.

But then I'm realizing, no, he wants the specific word repent. So, Justin, I was glad that I had my Logos Bible software, and if you guys don't have a lot of Bible software, you could you could get it, get even get some free books off of us.

Just go to bit .ly slash SFE Logos. It's on the screen. It'll be in the show notes. But get your copy of Logos because that's what really helped me in this, because I had to jump through scriptures and quickly find things.

Maybe you're like a Matt Slick and you just have it all memorized. I'm not. So I think so. Let's look. I try to find. OK, let's deal specifically with the word repentance. Well, when Christ when Christ came on Earth, what did he want people to do?

Which line? You know where the scripture is.

I don't believe you have to repent in order to be saved. I believe you have to believe on the.

Lord Jesus Christ. What is OK? So right there you get where I'm thinking some easier. Right. It's you don't you have to repent later. He's going to say repentance is a work. OK, lacking the repentance is I'm going to even explain it.

But I want you to notice he's telling us what he believes and he's not giving a scripture. OK, I'm pointing that out because you're going to see a double standard, especially when they're all in there, where they the only thing I'm allowed to say is scripture, but they can say what they want and not provide scripture.

OK. In fact, I don't know if it was when Borgen was speaking with Dr. Matthew, one of the other where he ends up saying he mentions the canopy theory, which, you know, is not in scripture. In fact, good science would say that the canopy theory doesn't work.

The earth would be too hot. So, you know, it's not good science and it's not good Bible, but he holds to it. Is it scripture? No. But let's let's listen. Helps if I hit play. What is it that you what is repentance?

Repentance is essentially stopping one thing and doing something different. Remember, God was going to do evil and Jonah, the book of Jonah onto these.

Now, let's stop it here just to point something out. Notice how he answers a question, right? I asked him a direct question. Here's the first time and I think the only time he answered a direct question, but he didn't stop there.

He then jumped on the word repentance and starts jumping all over the Bible where the word repentance has a meaning other than the meaning that we are using it. OK, and he does that. That's purposeful, folks.

People like this do this on every cultic group. They they lack integrity with language. OK, it's one of the things I say about cultic groups is that they lack integrity with language. And so what you end up seeing here.

Oh, we're going to get to the Mark passage that you just put up there. Don't worry. You're muted. So I can't hear.

You. I said that's OK. I was just getting it ready. So I know you were going. So, you know,.

You know, I was going and you didn't even watch this. So well, I'm just going to get passages.

Ready because I know where he's going to go and I know where you're going. So. Yeah. So. So what.

Ends up happening is he's going to go to Jonah and talk about God repenting. OK, totally different meaning. OK, I'm going to try to correct it and we'll see what happens. And he did it not to.

Repent to them. Yeah. Repent to them that he created man. Right. And he took them all out.

Right. Except for me. So, yeah. OK, I got to stop it. Do you see that puzzled look on my face? I'm trying to figure out, dude, what are you trying to say? This can happen to us when we get into discussions like this.

First time we're hearing something, it's like, what are you saying?

We're going to have that happen. One thing I noticed is that he was mixing his passages. He actually was talking about Noah and then Jonah and mixing them together.

And multiply different ways. And you're going to oh, you're going to see that much more later.

Just wait. I wasn't preached by Paul, which is the gospel that we're saved by today. It's in the day when God shall judge the secrets of man, according to my gospel by Jesus Christ.

In Romans to 16. No, no, no. I want you to notice how these guys are doing this together, because those who are watching the video, you just saw that the guy, Patrick, who's controlling the screen and the screen just has a Bible software up there so you could jump to different Bibles.

He knows where this guy is going and he's already getting Romans chapter two up. This is a routine they must do. I did talk to Dr. Matthew and enough to realize he was set up just as I was. He was like, oh, they just asked me to come in and share what the gospel is.

And so this is what these guys are doing. So they're coming into groups like the Christian apologetics group. They see, you know, 10 ,000 people in there and go, oh, these are some people I can contact.

So, yeah, I removed Patrick right away since that's the practice and you're gone.

One thing to think about, too, is this is, I've heard it expressed as freight train theology, but what it is, is you run people over and you force them to only hear your view. It just won't.

Stop. Well, and that's what Greg Kokel refers to as a steamroller, right? It's just rolling right over you. And, and you, I mean, it would be interesting to take a timer to how long I spoke versus these guys spoke.

And folks, you know that I could talk for a lot. I do it on the show here, but I wasn't given a chance to even, I mean, I would try to understand their view, ask a question and they just go off for minutes as you'll see.

Well, he declared in 1 Corinthians 15, how that.