Pastors' Panel Podcast- 10

Introduction, Podcast Housekeeping, and Upcoming Rotation

Hey, this is truth and love and courtesy of Brother Ramsey. We have that wonderful intro and I'm thankful for that. This is truth and love. Thank you for watching. Thank you for joining us. I'm trying to do two things at one time and share this video.

I'm trying to find the group that I want to share it to. Thank you for joining us. If you have any questions, we would love to try to answer those questions for you. I said, this is truth and love and I do truth and love video ministry, but this is our pastors panel podcast and I'm a member of too many groups and this is I'm having a difficult time trying to find that one group that I want to share it to.

There it is. Get started now. But this is our pastors panel podcast and we try to get as many of our brothers in our little message group on here that we can. Of course, everybody's busy and everybody works and many are pastoring and doing their ministry.

And so, you know, it's understandable that we all can't get together all the time, but I'm thankful for everybody that can join us so that we can talk about Jesus. We can discuss God's word. We can do that together and do that with our community, which is you.

So we're thankful for your support. We would love your prayers. And if you have any comments or questions, just, you know, put them in the comments. We'll see those and we'll try to get to them to the best of our ability.

And hopefully from my understanding, if you are not subscribed, if you have not subscribed on Facebook, on YouTube, to the Here I Stand Theology podcast, I would encourage you to do that. That's our brother Claude Ramsey's ministry.

He has a podcast and he's been doing some excellent videos. He and I are going to rotate or go back and forth with hosting the pastors panel podcast. So our next Thursday night, next Thursday evening, he is going to host the pastors panel podcast and I'm looking forward to that.

So go subscribe to his podcast, check out what he's doing and be there next Thursday night for that pastors panel podcast. So Claude, if you're ready, we're going to jump into Matthew chapter 4. By the way, how are you doing?

It's been a long time. It seems like a long time.

How was Christmas? How are you? Everything was good. As we were saying earlier, everything was peaceful. I don't want to, I know we don't believe in superstition, but I don't want to jinx it. It's like everything was on cruise control this year.

Absolutely.

I'm thankful for that. And like I was talking about your podcast, I just listened to the one with the Rose Brothers and which was a good podcast. That was a good conversation. And of course, I would encourage everybody else to get to go listen to that one as well, where you talk about what happened in 2021, their perspective on that and politics and religion, the conversation that everybody tries to avoid, but we all need to, but it's the conversation that we need to get into because we need to have the right perspective on these things.

And so I'm thankful that you did that because that's helpful. That's a helpful conversation. Thank you, Lord Brown. Appreciate you. Yeah. So hopefully this is going to be our last, well, I'm not going to, shouldn't say hopefully, I've enjoyed going through Matthew chapter 24.

We spent some time on eschatology, which means in things or in times and Matthew 24 is to me central in a talk on eschatology. We should be wrapping up Matthew chapter 24 tonight to begin with just to get the context of the chapter.

We've got to look at, you know, the conversation, just want to review that for a second. It's a conversation between Jesus and his disciples and they're asking him some questions. They say to him in verse three, tell us when these things will be, what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

And Jesus spends this time answering, of course, their questions and there's different perspectives on how to interpret, how to understand Matthew chapter 24, eschatology, end times, revelation, Ezekiel, Daniel, all that.

And we are not, we don't want to come across as having animosity toward our brothers who hold different views. We enjoy the conversation. We want iron to sharpen iron. We, most of us who have done this podcast and I'm thankful for those brothers that have been on Jonathan and Big John that have, they're exploring post-millennialism.

They have a different perspective, but they ask questions and it gave us a time, a chance to respond to those questions. And so I'm thankful for those brothers, but we are going to look at verses 36 through about maybe 44 and what I'm going to do, brother Claude, I'm going to give you a chance to respond maybe from our perspective, but what I thought I would do first is, as I read these verses, I just want to review what most people who are watching or listening, what they would normally hear, what's been most widespread through our lifetime and most recent history, the theology, the eschatology that is most widespread.

So as we go through these verses, that's what I'm going to do is kind of pull out what you would normally hear. So and as I was looking at it, I wanted to start earlier than 36. So probably, probably verse 33.

So here's the verses and here's what you would normally hear. Verse 33 says, even so you too, when you see these things, recognize that he is near, right at the door. So we're looking at these things to be happening.

That's what he's answering the disciples' questions. We're looking for his coming, the end times, end of the age, and we're looking for these things to happen. Verse 34, truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

So what you would normally hear from the most widespread perspective in most recent years is that the generation, you're going to be looking at verse 34 and 33, that this generation, the generation that sees these things is going to be the generation that does not pass away until all these things take place.

So that's what you're going to hear. And then verse 35, heaven and earth will pass away, but my word shall not pass away. And from this verse and other verses, you're going to get the idea from this perspective that there's going to be a new heavens.

God's going to create and bring a new heavens and a new earth. And it's understood from this perspective that God is going to destroy the heavens and the earth. You've heard it said the first time God destroyed the earth with a flood.

And of course he promised that that would not happen again. But the second time he's going to destroy it with fire. And that's what you would normally hear. And that's what one of the things that we're going to be looking for, destruction of the earth and heaven, and then we're going to get a new one.

Verse 36, but of that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the son, but the father alone. For the coming of the son of man will be just like in the days of Noah. So Jesus is referencing the days of Noah to help us understand this, this time period, this perspective.

So what are we to be looking for now? And I keep talking about this certain perspective. I might as well go ahead and name it is the pre-millennial dispensational view. That's the most widespread popular view in most recent years.

It's what you're going to hear from most pulpits. And so when you see these verses, like in the days of Noah, the things will be going on in this generation that sees these signs, the generation that's not going to pass until all these signs have taken place.

Verse 38, for as in those days which were before the flood, they were eating, drinking, and they were marrying and giving in marriage. Until that day, Noah entered the ark. So what you would normally hear is that a pause and a reflection on what's going on in the world today.

You would say, see, Jesus is referencing how they lived and how they had no concern for religious things or they had no concern for godly things or holiness or the things of the Lord. And you see that happening in our day.

Just look around you, read the newspaper, look at the newscast on TV. Look at everything around you. It's just like in the days of Noah. Everybody's eating, drinking, and marrying, and giving in marriage, and no one has any concern for the things of the Lord.

And then verse 39, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there should be two men in the field. One will be taken and one will be left.

Two women will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken, and one will be left. So another pause will happen here. And what is taken out of this verse, and also tied together with other passages like 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, you get this doctrine of the rapture.

And so these verses are used as a proof text to talk about proof or proof for and what the rapture will look like, the time of the rapture. And if you've read the Left Behind Books or seen the Left Behind Movies, you kind of get that idea, that picture that they're trying to paint.

You have people in a plane, the pilot disappears, passengers disappear, the plane crashes. You're going about your daily business. One's taken, one's left, and they say that's what the rapture is going to look like.

One's going to be taken, and one's going to be left. Everybody's going about their daily business, eating, drinking, giving, marrying, giving a marriage, and then the rapture is going to happen. And then verse 42 through 44, Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.

But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert, would not have allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason, you be ready, too, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think he will.

All right. So, now to give you some time, Brother Claude.

Rapture, the Second Coming, and the Secret Rapture Debate

Well, Wood, you're just great. I'm fine just sitting here listening to you, seriously. But I mean, so what you just communicated was the pre-millennial dispensational view. And I would say, I would affirm again what you said.

I mean, we're not trying to speak with animosity because, truth be told, we don't have it all figured out. But just to kind of backtrack to go kind of in reverse of what, starting with the last of what you said, you know, you talked about the left behind notes, the idea of the rapture.

And I think a lot of times in the first mill, in maybe even all mill circles, there is a true negative connotation on the idea of the rapture. So, I mean, in particularly the terminology used of a secret rapture, I think that's what, that's where the danger comes in.

The idea that this will happen and nobody will be aware of what's going on. Would you say that's kind of an accurate little added tidbit of information that we want to communicate here? Because the reason that I mentioned that is, I think some folks, if we're not careful to articulate fully on what we talk about, would say that we don't believe that there is going to be a time when the Lord does physically return and we're caught up together to meet the Lord in the air, like the scripture says.

And we probably believe that because that's what the scriptures teach,.

Correct? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that was one of the things when I was having side conversations with Pastor Jonathan, that he wanted to ask me, do you believe in the second coming? Do you believe or do you believe that it's already happened?

You know, from your post-millennial perspective, you know, what are you trying to tell me? And of course, I'm ad-libbing, I'm kind of putting words in his mouth, but that was the gist of this question.

And I said, no, no, no, you know, we believe in the second coming. We believe of, you know, being caught up with him in the air, just like it says in 1 Thessalonians. But, and that's a good distinction that you made that, you know, when you talk about a secret rapture, I would only say to that, from my experience, when I've heard and listened to teaching or preaching on, of course, none of this terminology, none of this terminology is ever used.

And that, I don't know if that's good or bad, but the premillennial dispensation is never used, it's just the doctrines taught. And when it was taught, it was never called a secret rapture. It was always called just the rapture.

Now, it was, it was explained as a secret rapture, but because of the verses that we just read, you know, we don't, we don't know the day or the hour. And so we kind of, I don't, I don't know if they, if the dispensationalists, the premillennial dispensationalists call it a secret rapture.

I'm unsure of that. I just never heard it called that by them. I've always heard of folks like us who are in a different camp, label it that so that we can help ourselves make a distinction. Does that sound.

Right? Yes, I agree 100%. And that's where, and that's where I really, I was heading, you know, because it's not, it's not taught that, but as it is anytime that there are multiple angles on a, on an idea, you know, or a, and it's truly secondary, the secondary issue, right?

And there are multiple angles, you know, we tend to, some at times caricature, you know, make a cartoon or the ideas of our opponents, but, you know, different viewpoints, we tend to caricaturize those and make them cartoons or whatever, make them worse than what they are when, that's just, that's something that I've thought about particularly, you know, for the past year to two years, primarily, you know, it's just one of those things that I have to always go back to and say, hold on, but, you know, for myself, for my own understanding, let's make this distinction, let's understand that.

But, you know, as far as the post-millennial view, I mean, I was, I've looked up, I was, I was reading Matthew Henry's commentary, I was reading John Gill's commentary on this, just this section here, and I was looking at Calvin's commentary, and what, what I wanted to communicate was, I mean, just in those three, I mean, these are, are solidly, all solidly reformed theologians, Gill, Calvin, Henry, I mean, there are, there are others, but, you know, when you start digging into commentaries, and I've started reading a B .H. Carroll commentary, which really wasn't on the text, but man, he was preaching fire in this commentary, I mean, I was, I was rejoicing, and it was about the gospel, you know, but anyway, that's, I'm sorry, I'm getting sidetracked there, but if you want to elaborate or do anything else, I'd like to read a little bit of Calvin's commentary when you're ready for me to do that, but just, just to point to the fact that even historically that the idea, the view, and the, the theology on this passage of Scripture is in relation to the present destruction of Jerusalem, which is the post-millennial view, partial preterist.

I think, I think I only want to say two things before you jump into that, and just, just commenting on some things that you said. I've, I've always appreciated thus far the, the participants in, in the podcast that we put together here, because being online, even amongst what you would, we're assuming that we're all brothers in the groups that we're in, you know, trying to bounce off questions or ideas or trying to learn from each other in these different groups on Facebook, but sometimes there's a harshness towards other camps, towards other beliefs, towards other brothers that is probably not necessary, and so I just wanted to say, and I think that was kind of the direction that you were going, and so I've been appreciative of the approach and the tone of the folks that have been in the conversations that we've had.

I think we've done well so far in showing love towards one another, and showing love towards folks in other camps, and we would hope that this would spur on, number one, a conversation about theology, about eschatology, but also an example of how to have that conversation with other people.

So I'm thankful for that, and I hope that God will use it in that way. I think the other thing that I would say is this, and it's probably why the terminology is avoided, you know, from the pulpit or from the classroom.

Sometimes it's because it's, you have to spend the time explaining it, you have to, they're bigger words, and you don't want to overburden people, and I understand that, but we do use those words here, and we somewhat understand what they mean.

So I just wanted to quickly throw out those words and give a brief definition for those who are catching up, may not understand what we're talking about, and kind of put it in layman's terms. So we'll kind of go back and forth here on a few of these terms.

The premillennial dispensational doctrine or view is the view of folks that hold the rapture view, who believe that there's going to be a new heaven and new earth coming down, that the most popular widespread view, the one that you probably are most familiar with, that we all grew up with.

Of course, within that camp, you've got different rapture positions. You've got a pre-trib rapture, a mid-trib rapture, you've got a post-trib rapture, and all those rapture positions believe that we are going to eventually go through a tribulation period, a seven-year tribulation period.

They just disagree on who's going to go through it, who's not going to go through it, and when the church is going to be taken out of this earth. And so that's the gist of the premillennial dispensational view.

Give us a layman's idea of what the.

Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, and Partial Preterism

Amillennial view is. You're going to have to do that, because honestly, I'm not a.

Commit for that. Well, I'm not really either. It touches, to me, in my perspective, from my understanding, it has some leanings on both sides from the premillennial dispensational view and the post-millennial view.

Where it differs from the premillennial dispensation is that amillennial believe that Jesus is reigning spiritually more, and that the millennial kingdom is happening now, and it's figurative, but that things are going to progressively get bad.

The post-millennial view, which is the view that we lean towards, is the view in both amillennial and premillennial dispensational, amillennial and postmillennial are partial preterists. Preterists just meaning past, and partial just means some of the prophecies have already been fulfilled in the past.

Some of those prophecies that the premillennial dispensational view say is going to happen in the future, we would say that they already happened and been fulfilled in the past. But as a partial preterist, we would say that there's still some to come, and we spoke of one of those, which is the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And so that's a synopsis, and if you have any questions about that, you know, shoot us a comment, or email, or message, and we'll be glad to try to explain to the best of our ability. But I did want to continue to throw out those words and not give a definition.

So, do you have anything to add on that?

No, I think what you said there was key. The difference is that the millennial view sees the kingdom as just more or less a spiritual reign, and the postmillennial view sees it as both spiritual and physical in the terms.

The two phrases are important for us as postmillennialists. Primarily, there's that already, you said it, there are the largest portion of the prophecies have already been fulfilled. And then, I mean, I would, I don't know if we could even argue over the fact that the only thing that's not come to pass is that Christ has come back yet.

I mean, pretty close. I mean, when we really come to, it comes down to brass tacks, and we just look at the text. I mean, if we say everything's been fulfilled, but Christ returned, I have to say that's a good synopsis.

Yeah, and we're still in the partial preterist camp with that view. And the only thing that we didn't include with the postmillennial view, and I'm glad you said that, is Jesus is reigning physically and spiritually.

And as opposed to the amillennial view, where the amillennialists believe that things are going to progressively can, you know, get worse, that we are going to have to to live through terrible times. The postmillennial view that we see in scripture is that things are going to progressively get better and better and better.

The gospel is going to do what Jesus says, permeate the whole earth. And, you know, God's word will not return void. And what was I going to say? I hate when that happens. Well, my mind just went blank.

The postmillennial view is, like I said, is a positive one. And oh, I remember what it was now. One other distinction, one other accusation that we get as postmillennialists is that there's a stream of Christianity out there that is the New Apostolic Reformation.

That crowd, they have a lot of other labels as well. But they believe in the three mountain mandate or some kind of mountain mandate. Yeah. And that we've got to do some kind of work and performance. We've got, we have to permeate all these different areas that, do you call it the seven?

We've got to permeate those seven different areas enough to where we are somehow drawing Jesus down because of all the work that we did. And we can get confused with that camp because we believe that things are progressively going to get better.

But we don't fall in that camp because we don't believe that, you know, we're not doing anything to try to invoke Jesus' kingdom to come. We believe that he has already come and he reigns spiritually and physically and he's the one who's working through us to advance that kingdom.

See, they're looking for a kingdom to come and they've got to do something to make it come. And that's, you know, total opposite of.

Post-millennialism. And the sad reality about that is that the, that in our theology, the seven mountain mandate is, I'll say, I'll say a positive and a negative. It's dangerously close to the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses, right?

That's what it is. It's about working. And, and when, when we've done this, then, then Christ can come. And I would say to anybody who thinks that, who do you think you are? The king does, Jesus does not wait for our, on our beck and call.

He's the king of kings and the Lord of lords. He does what he wants in heaven, does what he wants in heaven and earth. And then to the, that was the negative and positive. I would say that for me personally, and this, I think this would be a good point of consideration for most folks who, as we all do at times, in our ideas, in our stance, we get too big for our britches in country terms, to, to consider is this, it is also very dangerous for us as post-millennial, post-millennialists to wander off into that.

And how can we, as post-millennialists, keep that separate in our minds? For me, how, how, because I don't want to, I don't even want to give a whiff of an idea that I support the seven mountain mandate in any shape, form or fashion, because I've proclaimed against it for years.

We've got friends and family who have, I mean, they've just been sucked into that and they've gone into that. But when, when you really start listening to some post-millennialist talk, it's basically the same thing as the seven mountain mandate, that we got to take over the mountains of education, of entertainment, of finance and whatever those other seven things are.

Hang on, I will come up if, for just a second, seven, oops. Yeah, you said education, politics, entertainment. Yeah, education, religion, family, business, government, arts and entertainment and media.

I mean, that, that is, I mean, that's the, that's what the seven mountain mandate is. And, and I don't know if you've heard the term, I mean, and again, post-millennialism is referred to many times as dominion theology.

I don't, but, but again, there's that, that danger of weaving, you know, a kind of a hybrid ideology there that we, as men of God, theologians, we have to stay and keep ourselves disciplined so that we don't mingle that in.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I hope that was helpful to everybody. And if you're, if you're just joining us live, we're getting ready to walk through Matthew chapter 24 and walk through it from, from our perspective, from the post-millennial perspective.

If you want to go back and catch the, the introduction, I would encourage you to go back and watch that. We walk through Matthew chapter 24 from the, the widespread, most popular view, the, the pre-millennial dispensational view that the folks that, that hold to the rapture.

So share, share with us what you want to share with us from Calvin.

Matthew 24 in Calvin, Gill, and Henry

All right. And before I do, I want to say this, that what Robert is referring to those, these earlier episodes of the Pastors Panel podcast. I mean, dude, I could just sit and watch them. It, it is truly, it's the conversation between you and Dan, Jonathan and Big John.

That's what you call, that's what y 'all call him, right? It's those that got me hooked on listening to y 'all because y 'all's conversation was incredible. That's why I wish those guys were, were here.

But, but I just wanted to say, you know, commendation for you all on that. Because we can't give them, give them flowers to the dead. Don't do them no good. We got to give them to the living. So praise God for y 'all.

So Calvin said this, when he says that men were giving their whole attention to eating, drinking and marriage and the other worldly employments. At the time when God destroyed the whole world by a deluge, that's what the reference that Jesus makes is, right?

To the flood and to Sodom by thunder. These words mean, this is what Calvin said, that they were fully occupied with the conveniences and enjoyments of the present life. As if there had been no reason to dread any change.

And so we shall immediately find him commanding the disciples to guard against surfeiting and earthly cares. Surfeiting, I love it. That's that old, those, that's those old words, surfeiting and drunkenness and earthly cares.

Yet in this passage, he does not directly condemn the intemperance, but rather the obstinacy and stubbornness of those times in consequence of which they despise the threatenings of God in a way due with indifference, their awful destruction.

He goes on to say, Christ declares that the last age of the world will be in a state of stupid indifference. So that men will think, not think of nothing, but the present life and will extend their cares to a long period, pursuing their ordinary course of life as if the world were always to remain in the same condition.

And then he goes on to say this, concerning verse 40, I believe it is, two men, yeah, two men shall then be in the field. Before mentioning this, Calvin said, before mentioning this, Luke inserts some sentences.

The first of which is presented by Matthew as belonging to the destruction of Jerusalem. I mean, we have, we have a clear articulation of that by Calvin. And then we have the clear articulation of that by John Gill.

He says, concerning verse four, I'm sorry, I'm too early there. But in any case, he's actually earlier in the chapter in reference to verse 14, then the end shall come. John Gill said, not the end of the world, the Ethiopic version reads it and others understand it, but the end of the Jewish state, the end of the city and the temple, so that the universal preaching of the gospel all over the world was the last criterion in time of the destruction of Jerusalem.

And the account of that itself next follows within this dismal circumstances which attended it. So John Gill, John Calvin, read Matthew Henry. Again, they all are very specific about identifying the fact that the text itself is pointing to the current generation that Jesus was speaking.

To. Yeah, and I think that's key because people could be asking the question, you know, Claude, you're talking about the destruction of the Jerusalem in 70 AD versus the other perspective, which is we're to be looking for a imminent soon-to-come rapture event and then a tribulation, a seven-year period tribulation that some people are going to have to go through.

Where in the world are you getting this that Jesus is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD and you touched on it, you hit on it there at the very end from what I think is the key part there is that Jesus was telling them in verses 33 and 34, you're going to be the ones to see this.

Verse 33, and if you're okay, we can go ahead and start walking through the verses. Verse 33, even so you, remember Jesus is having a conversation with actual real people in front of him. He says, even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that he is near right at the door.

Truly I say to you, there's three times Jesus says you, you, you to the people he's having the conversation with. So which generation can we interpret that he's talking about? The generation that he says you three times to just right there in those two verses.

It was crazy when a gentleman I was talking to earlier this week yesterday, he was talking about how God takes the scales away from your eyes and you begin to see these things in scripture and when he did that for me and opened my eyes to these truths, it was just so amazing how they, when you begin to understand what Jesus was talking about.

But he was speaking of, speaking to them, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place, which would include the tribulation, the and then a culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple itself.

Is that, is that kind of the direction that you were going with it? Yes, sir. Gotcha. Yes, sir. So, so here's, here's one verse 35 and I've only recently heard this, this interpretation, but it but it makes sense and it goes along with the, to me, the partial preterist and the, the post-millennial view.

Verse 35, heaven and earth will not pass away. And of course, we talked about earlier how, you know, the other camp is looking for God to destroy the earth and heaven with, with fire, literally, and then bring forth a new heavens and new earth.

But I've heard the interpretation that from the Jewish perspective, they would have understood Jesus, when he says heaven and earth, that he is referring to the temple itself, where heaven and earth meet.

And that, that's what we're looking to, to pass away, is the temple. Another place to where, you know, you were speaking of in the commentaries that, where do we get that, that Jesus is speaking of the temple and Jerusalem being destroyed?

Well, from a Jewish perspective, when Jesus says heaven and earth, if he's referring to the temple where heaven and earth meet, that's where we would get that perspective. Is that a perspective that you've heard?

Yeah.

Yeah. It's actually what I communicate, folks. Okay. That perspective, because, I mean, again, if we go back to, as Chris Roseboro says, you know, the key to proper biblical interpretation is context, context, context.

If we, if we read what Jesus is saying to this evil and adulterous generation, which is what he calls them, and he tells them numerous times, you know, this generation, this generation, if we, if we read out what he's saying into the future, then we're doing the text an injustice.

We are isageating the text rather than exageating the text, right? We're not supposed to read into the text. We're supposed to pull from the text what's there, pull it out. But if we, if we, if we assume that he's speaking to future generations, then contextually what we're reading doesn't make sense.

It becomes, it becomes a scattered thought. I mean, it's, it becomes, you know, just kind of like a babbling of a madman, right? It'd be completely coherent at one time, and then the next breath, he's, you know, he says something off the wall.

But contextually, if we just follow the text without, you know, just going, jumping in in the middle, and we go from the beginning, we see this, we see this logical, logical thought carried out by Christ from, from beginning to end.

Absolutely. It's, it's.

A logical thought process. It's a consistent teaching. There's no gaps or holes or loopholes or nothing that you have to, to mangle or twist or, or figure out. Jesus is straightforward. And it makes me, I don't, I don't know if there's a resource out there that has done this or provides this information.

But to me, it would be interesting to read up on and know how the, how the progression of the premillennial dispensational view took place. And the reason I say that is because, and I'm not trying to put, like we spoke about earlier, I'm not trying to put those who hold that perspective down.

They're, you know, we, we love them. But, but as I look at scripture and I look at both points of view, if you look at verse 34, and it says this generation. So they don't believe that the tribulation has happened.

They don't believe that, and they believe that there's going to be a rapture that takes place. And so there's going to be a future generation that sees these things take place. And so for that to happen, there has to be a, what they call a pause in prophetic history.

And so where, where does that time gap come from in, in the rest of scripture? Well, that, you know, they get that from Daniel, but when they go to Daniel in the 70 weeks of years, Daniel talks about the 69 weeks and he kind of breaks it down into three parts, I think.

But when he gets, when he gets to the 69th week, those who believe that this, there's going to be a future event, the prophetic timetable is going to, or clock is going to start ticking once we start seeing these events happen.

But, but right now we're in a gap, a prophetic gap. So, so where do you put that gap? They had to find a place in scripture to find it. They go to Daniel and they insert that gap in between the 69th and 70th week.

And the reason I was talking about that resource and the progression of the pre-millennial dispensational thought, I'm curious at, because it's just a lot of puzzle pieces that you have to put together and try to find places where to fit.

So which came first, the reading of Daniel and putting the gap in between the 69th and 70th week or reading Matthew chapter 24 and saying, well, these things haven't happened yet. This generation hasn't, you know, come upon the scene yet.

So did they, they read Daniel and then put it in Matthew chapter 24 with this generation or did they reach, you know, which one came first, the chicken or the egg? But that's just me thinking out loud and curious about the progression of that doctrine.

But simply put, that's what they had to do. You have to find places to insert things that aren't there, like that Paul's prophetic, the prophetic timetable and the 2000 plus year gap that's there, which if you read, as Claude was telling us, if you read Jesus logically, consistently, he makes sense here from the partial British perspective.