Tucker Carlson & Real Contact With Demons

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Join us for the newest episode of Apologia Radio in which we discuss Tucker Carlson's testimony of being attacked at night by a demon. Does this sort of thing actually happen? Listen in and tell someone about it! To give: https://ean.link/GiveEAN Check out our new sponsor, Rooted Pine Homestead! A family business that works to create natural wooden toys and herbal remedies. Their wooden toys/other wooden items are coated with only 2 ingredients (Coconut MCT oil and beeswax). Use discount code APOLOGIA for 10% off your first order. https://www.rootedpineshomestead.com/homeandgifts -Get the NAD treatment Jeff is on, go to ionlayer.com and put "IONAPOLOGIA" into the coupon code and get $100 off your first three months! https://www.ionlayer.com -Check out our new partner at http://www.amtacblades.com/apologia and use code APOLOGIA in the check out for 5% off! -You can get in touch with Heritage Defense at heritagedefense.org and use coupon code “APOLOGIA” to get your first month free! -For some Presip Blend Coffee Check out our store at https://shop.apologiastudios.com/ -Check out the Ezra Institute: https://www.ezrainstitute.com/

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02:29
In Matthew 16, Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived.
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In Matthew 16, Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived.
04:24
Who are the Pharisees of our day? This strong hold of sort of whiteness and white identity and pristineness is really part of what keeps us from making progress.
04:40
We need to do better. The Church, rich in theological scholarship, has lingered in academic sanctuaries and ivory towers, failing to translate its lofty doctrines into a tangible and practical cultural apologetic.
04:56
At the Worldview Youth Academy, we bridge this critical gap. Here, theological depth is not an end in itself, but a means to engage with contemporary cultural issues.
05:13
Paul, don't you sympathize with that?
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I sympathize with every single human heart wishing to know the one true and living God, but I believe there's only one way that that can happen through Jesus Christ and the gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it.
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This, you have not experienced this before. Finally, be strong in the
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Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
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For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
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Hey, y 'all. Director of Communications of End Abortion Now. Exciting show we have for you today. Thank you for joining us. Make sure you guys hit the like, the share, the subscribe, all the doodads, everything there.
07:37
And make sure you send this out across them internets. Yeah, all the doodads. Excited about the show. Tucker Carlson in real contact with demons.
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If you haven't seen it yet, we're going to review it with you here today. Tucker Carlson has a clip going around where he describes, according to his testimony, being attacked by a demon at night and actually left physical marks on him and left him bleeding.
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And there's no shortage to leftists and liberals calling him a nutcase and doing reviews of this.
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But of course, we want to approach this subject from a Christian perspective, from a Christian worldview. So we're going to be using the scriptures and the biblical lens to look through this.
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We're also going to, stay tuned, tell you some stories of personal contact with demons and experiences that I've had, we've had, with the dark supernatural.
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And so stay tuned. Very excited about this episode because we're going to talk about some important things and talk about how we fall off a cliff, generally.
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You've heard me say that a million times. Generally, Christians will do that. They'll fall off a cliff on a theological subject either way.
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And so we're going to talk about that. And we're glad that you joined us. Before we get into the conversation today, I want to remind everybody that ReformCon 2025 is coming out of the ashes,
08:51
ReformCon 2025. If you were here for the last ReformCon, you know what a delight it was, how great it was.
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I think we pulled it off. We wanted to do a Christian conference like no other. We wanted to do it in a way where there was tons of fellowship, connecting with other believers from across the country and really around the world.
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We wanted to have phenomenal teaching, and we wanted to do it just in a different way than normally
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Christian conferences go. And so there was entertainment, there was music, there was great teaching.
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There was just a lot of good times were had, and I think we really pulled it off. So 2025, ReformCon .org
09:26
is where you go. It's going to be here in the state of Arizona. It's going to be down there in old Tucson. So you've got to get your tickets right away at ReformCon .org.
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It's April 24th through the 26th. Great lineup of speakers so far. Very excited and grateful to have these men join us.
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We've got Andrew Sandlin, we've got Dr. Joseph Boot, we've got Douglas Wilson, we've got James White. It's just a great lineup, and Virgil Walker is going to be the host of the whole entire thing.
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We're trying to build an experience like no other. So out of the ashes, April 24th through 26th,
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ReformCon .org. Get your tickets, come out and meet with us. Hang out with us for a couple of days here in Arizona. And just a heads up,
10:05
April's a great month to come to Arizona. We are not going to torture you by doing it in July or August.
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And so April's a mercy. Yeah, that's a you're welcome right there. It's actually great weather in April, so you'll really enjoy it.
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And I also want to point everybody who is a partner with us in this ministry, I'm going to just take the time in this episode.
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Some of you guys are going to feel like you just want to fast forward past this. Don't do that. I'm going to ask you to stay with us just for a moment here.
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We're not going to talk long about this, but you need to hear this. So for all of you who have been a part of End Abortion Now with us since the very beginning, we want to tell you how grateful we are for you and how thankful we are to God that he's allowed us to do this ministry.
10:47
Literally tens of thousands, tens of thousands of lives have been saved outside of the mills since we began this work.
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It is truly a humbling thing to see. At this point, there's no real way to keep up with the numbers because we have so many churches really around the world that are doing this now, and not everyone checks in with us in their saves.
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And so oftentimes we'll get an update a year or two later and hear that, you know, the saves were in the hundreds and things like that.
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So we want to let you guys know if you have given at any point towards End Abortion Now over the years,
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God has used that giving to save literally lives that are saved and people who are alive today just because of this ministry and churches around the world that are participating.
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So all glory to God for that. Also, you have participated with us in making sure that we can communicate the real issues surrounding the issue of abortion and to wake the church up and to call for consistency without compromise to demand justice.
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And so when we first started this work, you should know we were just begging God, Lord, would you please raise up righteous, godly, courageous legislators across the country that would be willing to put in bills of equal protection to abolish this thing once for all.
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You guys may remember when this work started, there were, of course, churches had been doing this longer than us outside of abortion mills, but we hadn't yet had a faithful legislator.
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And through the work of some faithful Christians in the state of Oklahoma, they were able to get, to my knowledge, the real first move towards abolition and equal protection with Senator Joseph Solk in Oklahoma.
12:18
Great work done there by those guys, and that really was the first. And it was like, wow, there's actually a courageous legislator.
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And then the Lord started moving with his church, pastors, leaders from across the country. The Lord used
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End Abortion Now to talk to legislators across the country. And so through the work of End Abortion Now and other churches and organizations,
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God has given us now at this point dozens of bills of abolition that have happened. Of course, the historic one you know about that happened in Louisiana that went to a hearing, passed the hearing, and went to the floor.
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It was talked about by everybody, New York Times, MSNBC, CNN. It was across the country, and it forced the hand of the largest pro -life organizations and state organizations across the country to reveal their doctrinal position.
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That is that they are not working to abolish abortion. And so we praise God for what took place in Louisiana, even though it was technically a fail or a loss in terms of justice not being established, it opened up the door to what they actually believe.
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And when I say they, I mean the pro -life establishment. Now what they believe is fully on the table for the church to see.
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They are not working to abolish abortion. Who is? The churches. Organizations like End Abortion Now.
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Organizations across the country, faithful organizations all across the country that are working to end this injustice.
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And so we want to let you guys know, a big praise, a big, big praise, is that next session we are slated to have approximately 20 bills of abolition and equal protection happening across the country.
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Some of these bills are bills other organizations and churches are putting in. We're backing them up.
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Some of these are bills that we've been able to get in and others are backing us up, but with the churches working together.
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And so as of right now, be in prayer for that. We have approximately 20 bills, more or less.
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We could actually get more, but we need more confirmation with some. And that's happening next session, so be in prayer for that.
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I am fully convinced that 2025 is going to be a year where we are so much closer, if not, having a state that actually passes this on the floor, in the
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Senate, all the rest. So we're getting very close, and I need you to know something, and this is the final word
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I'll say on this. I need you to know that in some ways we are in a better place than we ever were before.
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I mean, just think about it. Like I just said, circle back to what I said. We were just asking God for one legislator. Can we have another one? Just one.
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Can we just get another one to put this in? Some courageous legislator who will be consistent, won't compromise, will be courageous, and then we just get dozens and dozens.
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And next session, approximately 20 bills of abolition happening across the country. So that's great.
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A thousand churches raised up and trained by Apologia Church for free, giving everything away, so they're out saving lives.
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Babies are being saved because of the work that God has done there in raising those churches up. So that's good.
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That's good. All glory to God for that. But there's another part of the story, and that is that we're in some ways in a worse position.
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Okay? A worse position in that what everyone thought was the team, the
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RNC or the pro -life establishment, what everyone thought was the team, everyone's discovering is not really the team.
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Not the team. And they do not hold to a Christian view on this. They are not consistent. They are not working towards abolition.
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The RNC, Donald Trump, revealed at the end of the election that they want to take a middle ground position.
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They want exceptions, and they want to essentially regulate this thing to death.
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Literally to death. And there's that problem. The pro -life industry was never working for abolition, so they're a bit confused right now as to exactly what they're going to do.
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But that's a problem, because now we know that that enemy really needs— we need to work hard against that enemy, because they're working hard against us.
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Harder than they ever were before, because we're working to abolish it. They're working to regulate it to death. But we also have the element that's added now, where we have these ballot measures happening across the country.
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And the ballot measures are legalizing, through constitutional state right, abortion from fertilization all the way through nine months.
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So you've heard me say it before, if you're just jumping into the conversation, you've heard me say it before, that we are actually about to, in some places, in some contexts, we're about to enter into the bloodiest and most brutal part of this
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Holocaust we've seen yet. And that's the truth. That's not being hyperbolic. That's being truthful.
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And so we need your help. We need your help. So this is a call to brothers and sisters around the world, if you're watching this, we need your support for 2025.
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It takes a lot of work to go into these states, to raise the churches up, to get that network of believers and churches together to work on these bills.
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It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work and effort to raise these churches up, to go save lives at the abortion mill.
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It takes a lot of work, a lot of effort to be able to put together content that can teach the church on this issue.
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And so we want to ask you to join us again in 2025. We are closer than ever. God is blessing this tremendously.
17:06
Lives are literally being saved this day because of the work of believers just like you.
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And so if you would, please join us in 2025 to meet our goal for end abortion now. It's about a million five as the goal.
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And it's interesting because that is a lot of money. But if you take that in comparison to what the enemy has to work against this, it's nothing.
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I mean, it's pennies, drops in a bucket. It's nothing. There was a commercial that was used to help fund
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Proposition 139 in Arizona that legalized birth in Constitution from fertilization to nine months.
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That 132nd commercial was 15 million poured in? Yeah, I think over its lifespan.
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That's how much they dumped into it. 15 million, a single commercial. That's what we're up against. And the industry, the pro -life industry has millions upon millions upon millions of dollars to pour into their work.
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And so we need to raise about 1 .5. We have a small team. We work hard. We work well together, and we get a lot done.
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And so please join us in 2025. Lives are literally being saved because of it. So endabortionnow .com
18:13
is where you go. Donate there towards getting us to our annual budget so we can put that behind us and get to work.
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And as I always say, we want to end this injustice, wash our hands of it, and get on to the next thing.
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We're not trying to create an industry or a business out of this. We are doing this as a local church. And so please join us, endabortionnow .com,
18:34
donate, and let's do this. So I was trying to find the original video of Tucker Carlson giving his testimony of being attacked by a demon at night.
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It's not this one. I had seen the original one. And then when I went to search for it on YouTube, I couldn't even find the actual full clip because all
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I saw was people responding to Tucker Carlson. And of course, you've got the leftists and atheists and stuff just mocking him relentlessly for this.
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And I thought it'd be a good thing to discuss as Christians because when we talked about this yesterday and we were messaging back and forth, you were talking about the cliff.
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The ditch on both sides. Talk about that ditch on both sides and this issue of demonic possession or contact with demons.
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I think that's an important way to start this conversation. So I think there are. There are two ditches on both sides, really, that you could fall into.
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And I think people do. If you have a background like mine, I come from the assembly of God, Pentecostal background.
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Some weird stuff, to say the least, going on in there. And there's a lot of talk about spiritual warfare, waging against the principalities and powers, forces of darkness.
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And really the demon behind every corner theology, or Satan so at work and so active that you're never really responsible for what's going on in your life.
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It's always the devil being blamed on, you know, the devil made me do it. And just a lot of emphasis on that, because I think in Pentecostal circles, there's a big emphasis on the activity of the
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Holy Spirit in the world in general. And the emphasis on that, which isn't bad. I think that's wonderful.
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But the other side of the ditch that people fall into, too, and trying to swing the other way on the pendulum is the cessationist circles that are so cessationist.
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You know, it's Scripture, Scripture, Scripture, Scripture, the Word of God, the Word of God, the Word of God, where the demonic realm, the unseen realm, those things aren't even really talked about.
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They're just kind of discarded or like, no, we don't need to worry about that anymore, post -cross, post -resurrection, post -ascension.
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So I think those are the two edges that we fall off on this.
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We either emphasize it so much that sometimes Christians are pushed into a place of fear about the demonic realm and Satan and his activity in the world, or they make everything about that and just blame everything upon him.
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And then you have on the other side, you know, there's pockets of our camp that don't talk about it at all. And they won't recognize the reality of real spiritual attacks, dark spiritual things surrounding missions, and they may even themselves be dismissive of when someone has real contact in a real ministry context with something that's very dark and demonic.
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Because it doesn't fit neatly, generally speaking, into the proper theological categories, right?
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That practical experience of coming up against demonic opposition. Yeah, and you sound like a nutcase at times.
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I'm going to tell you guys, we're going to tell you guys some stories today that without the proper worldview and context, you'll sound like a crazy person.
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But the stories are true. They actually happened. And it fits within, of course, a biblical framework.
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And so I think we should just jump right into... And more practically, too, pretty in line with Carlson's recounting.
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Very much so. I mean, that sounds just about right. Yeah, it does. Okay, so here we go. Let's jump right into it.
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And Tucker Carlson describing his testimony of having contact with an actual demon.
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Do you think the presence of evil is kick -starting people to wonder about the good?
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That's what happened to me. That's what happened to you? Oh, yeah. I had a direct experience with it.
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In the milieu of journalism? Nope, in my bed at night. And I got attacked while I was asleep with my wife and four dogs in the bed and mauled.
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Physically mauled. In a spiritual attack by a demon? Yeah, by a demon.
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Or by something unseen that left... Is that right? Claw marks on my sides, on my...
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So it left physical marks? Oh, they're still there. Yeah, yeah. A year and a half ago. Was your wife terrified?
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I know you were. I wasn't. I was totally confused. I woke up and I couldn't breathe and I thought I was going to suffocate.
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And I walked around outside and then I walked in and my wife and dogs had not woken up and they're very light sleepers.
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And then I... When Doug was reviewing this, he talked about, you know, of course, the skeptic, the unbeliever, the atheist, who's a materialist, who believes that all that exists is the material realm and doesn't believe in an unseen realm or spiritual creatures or that man has a spiritual essence, will hear a story like this and initially go, well, you were in bed with your four dogs, dummy.
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You got claw marks, of course. But of course, you listen to his testimony and he wakes up to his dogs sleeping, right?
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If you woke up to his dogs snarling at him, I mean, it'd be pretty obvious what took place. But there's a little point there that I want to highlight because it's going to come into...
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It's going to come into clarity later is where he wakes up and he's unable to breathe. Yes. And he feels like he's suffocating.
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Yes. Common experience. Yes. Yeah. Just on that point about the materialist,
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I feel like that's getting harder and harder to find those people too because with the resurgence of pagan spirituality and the occultic, you know, how people are so heavily invested in forms of dark spirituality now.
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Yeah. Like, I think there's less and less of that bare materialism that you're seeing.
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Like, people are more inclined to entertain the existence of immaterial spiritual forces and powers.
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And like he notes, this is what can move them sometimes in the biblical direction. Okay, well,
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I'm going to read for myself. What does the Bible have to say about this? Right. Because I've had the experience and bro, let me tell you.
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Yeah. Like, it shook me. It's for real. Yes. These terrible pains on my rib cage and on my shoulder and I was just in my boxer shorts and I went and flipped on the light in the bathroom and I had four claw marks on either side underneath my arms and on my left shoulder.
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And they're bleeding. Wait, they were bleeding? They were bleeding, yeah. No, they were actual claw marks.
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And I sleep on my side so I wasn't clawing myself. I don't have long nails. And they didn't fit my hands anyway.
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But yeah, that happened. So, I'm not from a world where things like that happen. I never heard of anything like that happening before.
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I had no idea what that was. I knew it was spiritual immediately. This is good to talk about there.
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It's kind of like you were talking about at the beginning here. We have the ditch on either side. It's where people are kind of hyped up for this kind of experience.
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Yeah. They get a thrill out of talking about it, looking for it. They're looking for it, looking for the devil behind every rock and they're blaming the devil for all things and maybe even living in fear and sort of waiting for these experiences to happen.
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They're so hyped up about it on a regular basis that they can't sit in the living room at night with just the
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TV on because that dark hallway freaks them out. There's a demon down the hallway. Right. And what Tucker is saying here according to his testimony is that he's not from that world.
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He doesn't really believe in this sort of thing. Never heard of it. I don't understand this. And so for him, it was a shock that it happened.
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I like that in listening to his testimony because it's not somebody who is just hyped up about the experience and they're looking for the experience.
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He wasn't seeking it, yeah. It confused him. Mm -hmm. It was confusing to him. So I think that's an important part of his testimony in terms of if we're sort of thinking about this and filtering it through a biblical worldview where we recognize a material realm and an unseen realm, a spiritual realm.
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We have to listen for, I think, marks like that in the testimony. Is this a person that's just hyped up about this experience?
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Are they looking for this experience? Are they trying to find this experience behind every rock? Yeah. Describes a lot of some
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Christians in certain denominations who are hyped up on that experience. How can I feel closer to God?
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Being a super Christian is being heavily invested in spiritual warfare and praying to that end in such a way as to where the prayers are very dramatic and hyped up and even it's almost like a frenzy.
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You work yourself up into that spiritual fervor because that's what you're, it's exciting. Yeah. Like you're at war.
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Yeah, definitely. And one of the things interesting in light of this whole field of the paranormal, the supernatural, this whole thing, you'll have, even videos that are up right now, you guys can go search them out where you'll have people that are like, you know, ghost hunters or into the paranormal and you watch some of their videos and they're actually quite boring at times.
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They try to go to haunted houses and you know, a haunted graveyard and you know, where some story of like, you know, seven dead
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Civil War soldiers are still haunting this place, you know, whatever that might be, that whatever the story is or this house where this little girl died and she still haunts the house and sometimes they're just quite boring to watch because you can recognize after just a little bit of watching it that they're just trying their best to find the experience.
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They're hoping that it appears but nothing's really happening. And so any noise or creak in the house becomes, what was that?
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What was that? And you know. Comes off as fabricated, right? It's totally fabricated and then they're just really trying to amp everybody up and they're trying to find the experience.
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Now, I'm not gonna say that there aren't people who actually make contact with demons in these paranormal, you know, experiences and where they're trying to film this because I have seen those as well.
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There is evidence of that. But, you know, there's that world where people are sort of looking for that experience.
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They want that experience. They're chasing that experience. And oftentimes it's boring because nothing is even happening but that's not where Tucker is and I think that's remarkable in terms of his testimony.
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Did. Okay, that was gonna be my question. Yeah. Well, I don't understand to this day. I'm not gonna put it forward. You didn't try to refute the spiritual part in your own mind.
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You went right into the idea. Well, it didn't make any sense and it doesn't now. So, but I'm not from a, what do they call it, faith tradition that talks about things like that or even acknowledges their existence.
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Like, there's nothing like that. I've never heard anybody say anything like that in my whole life. What was the next day like?
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Well, the next morning I woke up and I thought that was the weirdest dream I've ever had. And then I saw blood on my sheets and I realized that was not a dream at all.
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I was like, oh, my assistant was like the only evangelical Christian I know, you know, well enough to call something bizarre like that.
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Totally bizarre like that. And she said, oh, yeah, no, no, that happens. Yeah, people are attacked in their bed by demons.
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What? What are you even talking about? Yeah. So, I mean,
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I'm not leaving anything out and I'm not pretending to understand that I can only say what happened to me and that did happen to me.
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And then I was seized with this very intense desire to read the Bible which
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I then started without any study aids or anything. I bought a Bible that didn't have any. I'm not interested in editorializing in the
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Bible. I just want to read it and see what's in there myself. Good. I have very low levels of trust for Christian pastors, most of whom, you know,
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I'm just not a fan at all. Me too. And sorry to say that, but that's how I feel. Don't be sorry.
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There's many of us that are saying the exact same thing. Coming from a Christian pastor. Yeah, me too. Same. Good job.
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I like what one comment on that portion of it was where he has this experience. He can't understand.
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He's in disbelief about it in some ways, but he knows it happened. There's the blood. There's the claw marks. I experienced it. I couldn't breathe.
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And the first thing he does is call a Christian, which is great.
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The only one he knew on his team, right? Yeah. And then, of course, he goes to read the Bible. So whatever the plan was of the demon, it obviously backfired.
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It failed, yeah. Drove him straight to the source. Exactly. But he goes to the
30:11
Christian, the evangelical Christian, who says, oh yeah, that happens. People get attacked in their beds. I wish
30:16
I can maybe find this out. What time it was.
30:24
Does it coincide with witching hour and those sorts of 3 a .m. kind of wake up call? Yeah.
30:30
And the reason why, I'll just put it out there since we're having the discussion. In my experience with the demonic and things just like this, people's experiences just like this.
30:40
Very, very similar. Very similar. It's a common time, period of time at night.
30:46
We're talking about like 2, 3 a .m. It seems to be when there's this, and I can't answer it.
30:52
I mean, I've heard people try to explain why it is witching hour and there's a lot of occultic activity happening that time of day.
30:58
I haven't investigated that enough to know if that's true or not, but it does seem to be a common thread in some of these stories that about that time is when there are these types of experiences happening in people's lives.
31:10
In one of my experiences, I'm going to talk to you about in a moment, that's precisely what time it was.
31:17
And I worked at a hospital. Amazingly enough,
31:24
I ran into this kind of experience on a regular basis. In other people's lives, in their stories, they would tell me.
31:31
And interesting that the people who had these experiences, when I was sitting with them, and they're impatient in the hospital for like 30 days, come to find out that they were doing precisely what the
31:42
Bible warns against in Deuteronomy 18 and making contact with the dead and using drugs to alter their consciousness to breach that gate between the physical and...
31:54
Yeah, the one you're not supposed to cross, that one. Right, yeah. They find a way to open the gate between the physical and the immaterial by use of drugs.
32:02
I mean, in the New Testament, it's called sorcery. The Phrygia. Yeah, Galatians, the Apostle Paul warns people against sorcery.
32:09
And of course, the word there is pharmakia. And so it was the use of substances to get to the other side and to communicate.
32:14
Altered states of consciousness. Exactly. And I can't tell you how many times I lost count how many times
32:20
I talked to somebody and as we're going through a couple days of counseling, giving them the gospel,
32:25
I'm hearing about their experiences, and they were, of course, using drugs. And some of them were trying to make direct contact with the other side through the drug experiences.
32:32
And they all had stories that were similar to Tucker's. It worked. It worked fantastically.
32:38
And some of their stories were quite horrifying. But yeah, common experience.
32:45
So fascinating. We were talking before we started rolling just the relationship between what would be called the unseen realm, right?
32:53
The spiritual realm. We know that the Bible's cosmology is such that there is a world beyond what we can see.
33:01
However, that world is not out there somewhere. It's all around us. All around us. So there's activity happening.
33:08
All around us. And how many Biblical narratives do we need to read to understand that in the lives of believers, in particular, you know, you talk about Christ's ministry being subjected to demonic oppression, all this onslaught, you know, the forces of darkness cried out, they recognized
33:22
Christ for who He was, they recognized His mission, they recognized His identity, they fought against that.
33:28
You have numerous Biblical characters, you know, under demonic opposition, oppression, and there's this whole battle that's going on all around us.
33:37
There's a spiritual conflict beyond what our eyes can see in the heavenly places,
33:42
I think is how the Bible would put it. So in Ephesians 1, for example, Jesus has been seated far above all rule, authority, and power in the heavenly places, and believers,
33:52
Christians, have received every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. So we've been transferred out of the dominion of darkness under the realm, under the rulership of the evil one, and we've been brought into the dominion of God's beloved
34:04
Son, but it's not as if that place seeks to exist. We've been delivered, redeemed out of it, and yet we have been seated with Christ, Ephesians says, in the heavenly places, where He's seated.
34:15
But what goes on there? Well, we see in Job and other places, there's angelic activity, right?
34:21
There's a hierarchy, if you will, of spiritual creatures appearing before the throne of God, right?
34:28
Satan and Job comes right before the throne, and there's an interaction there. There's dialogue going on.
34:33
So there's movement, there's communication, there's knowledge on the part of demons, and there's satanic forces.
34:41
I mean, the Bible tells us about them. They were under a period of probation as were Adam and Eve.
34:47
Some were cast out, according to Jude and 2 Peter, and then some, of course, retained their heavenly promotion before the throne of God, the good angels, the
34:57
Gabriels, and so on and so forth. But there's this entire world beyond what we can see, and yet it intersects with our physical experience.
35:04
That's what's so fascinating to me about this discussion is you have experiences, I have experiences where we feel darkness, we feel a presence that is not clean in the room, in the bed, wherever, and then we are interacted with by these disembodied spiritual creatures where there's a line there, and yet we're touched on the other side of that line in such a way that it leaves a physical mark on our bodies.
35:30
There's pain felt. There's shortness of breath. All of that, to me, is really just, it escapes my ability to categorize it, and that's what
35:40
I think it's a failure of language. I can't exactly put words around the entire experience.
35:45
I can tell you what happened, and I can tell you what I felt, and I can tell you the fear in that moment.
35:51
I can tell you what I did to combat it, but I can't explain how there were marks or how there was shortness of breath or footsteps down the hall that I heard or movement in the closet of it.
36:04
I can't explain that. Right, right. Other than to say, the Bible. Yeah, God says that it looks like this.
36:12
It has these categories, but some of this you have to just do some healthy biblical speculation and say, well, I'm not certain about this or how much they can do or when they materialize, what it can look like, and that, but we have some ideas.
36:25
We have some examples, like is it possible for a spiritual being like an angel to materialize on the other side of that door here in the material realm to materialize in such a way as they resemble a human being?
36:39
Well, absolutely. We know that with at least good angels, godly angels, righteous angels, we have the account of Jesus, the pre -incarnate
36:49
Christ, appearing before Abraham with two angels with him, and what are they doing?
36:56
Literally eating food. Right. Abraham has this thing killed and dressed.
37:01
There's cakes prepared and brought, and they eat. They eat. The text says they ate. They ate, and so they go also to Sodom and Gomorrah, and there's interaction there that's clearly physical interaction, and so is it possible, and we have this discussion, is it possible for a spiritual creature like an angel to materialize in such a way that they take on physical characteristics?
37:24
The answer is, well, we have examples of that in scripture. The answer is absolutely yes. Now, can fallen, dark spiritual forces, demons, can they do the same?
37:36
I would just speculate and say, what's the reason to think that they couldn't? Exactly. If righteous angels, good angels, to put it simply, if they can materialize and even take on physical characteristics that enabled them to eat food and to fellowship with others, is it possible that the demonic can do the same?
37:56
I'd say, I don't think there's any reason to believe that they couldn't. So there's that speculation, biblical speculation, of what does that look like.
38:05
Now, I think you can press that too far, like way too far, in other discussions that I won't get into right now, but I want to say that, and I mean the
38:14
Nephilim stuff where angelic beings have sex with humans. I don't think it's possible for a spiritual being to replicate after human kind.
38:27
Procreate. Everything basically produces after its own kind. And so I don't believe that's possible.
38:32
Some of you guys might believe it's possible, but I think it's pressing it too far. But the point you made, I think, is important is we don't want to freak people out who are believers and start living in fear of walking down the dark hallway in their house kind of thing.
38:44
You made a good point that there's interaction, clearly, in the unseen realm where Satan and Job is having a conversation with God.
38:52
Now, note that when he wants to destroy Job's life, he can only do so by divine permission.
38:59
Yeah. He's God's devil. Right. He's on a leash. He's on a leash. If you will. He's restrained in what he can actually do.
39:05
There you go. So he wants to do something to Job, and God has to give him permission and give him a boundary.
39:11
Yeah. And says, you can only do it so far, but you can't take his life. Okay? So there's divine purpose even in spiritual warfare that is for God's good purpose and to his ends.
39:22
Yeah. And so we need to take that into account when we're talking about the demonic. We're not talking about something that has all power or is able to thwart
39:29
God's purposes. Whatever spiritual attack is happening can only happen by way of divine permission.
39:34
Yeah. Any power that they have must necessarily be derivative. Right? If we're talking about this hierarchical structure that Jesus reigns over in the spiritual realm.
39:46
He's given the name above every name. There's no name higher. There's no authority more extensive, more complete, no dominion more complete than Jesus.
39:56
Right? He's reigning. But underneath that, there is.
40:02
Right? There's principalities, there's powers, there's rulers and authorities. So the
40:07
Bible gives us a picture sometimes that I just don't think maybe we fully appreciate.
40:14
The unseen realm, the spiritual realm, the fact that there's a hierarchy there and there's activity.
40:19
Ongoing activity. But as you said, it is at the hand of God.
40:25
It's by his command. It's not happening apart from his knowledge in the world. Right. Or apart from accomplishing even his purposes.
40:32
Right. And his sovereignty. So there's another word to be said here as we go further and further into this discussion. Is it possible for a believer to be possessed by the demonic?
40:44
Rather than oppressed. Oppressed. Merely. That's good categories. You guys have probably heard this before. There's oppression and then there's possession.
40:52
And I think it's very clear biblically that when God raises somebody to spiritual life, the
40:59
Holy Spirit of God dwells within them. Yes. And so think of this as this is the
41:04
Holy Spirit's house and God's not sharing his house with a demon. And I think it's important for us to note that I think it's clear in Scripture that it is not possible for somebody who is indwelt by the
41:16
Spirit of God who knows Jesus, who has been reconciled to God to be possessed by Satan. However, I do believe absolutely that it's possible to be oppressed by satanic forces and the demonic.
41:29
And can we even hold that in tension? In terms of a believer having a charge by God as a blood -bought believer indwelt by the
41:38
Holy Spirit not to make room for or allowance for things that would blur those distinctions.
41:44
Or allow for entry from the other side. So Christians dabbling in the occult and such and such.
41:52
Like God is the landlord and there's no other landlord of your body. But in terms of are you inviting foreign things, dark spirits into your experience also?
42:04
So I think there's also a warning. Don't play. And to give somebody a good resource on that,
42:12
I don't even know how many years ago it was. But if you look on YouTube, type in Jeff Durbin, tools of the occult.
42:18
I would also recommend Dr. Walter Martin on the occult. Just look up some good messages from Walter Martin on the occult.
42:25
But I did a long... Kingdom of the occult. I had to because some things were impacting our church body. Some people had been duped into following this guy who was practicing a form of occultism in his chiropractic office.
42:37
And so unfortunately some of our members were going to him and didn't realize what was being done was actually a trade of the occult.
42:45
And so I had to do this long two -hour message. That's long for me even. A long two -hour. I think to this day that's the longest message you've preached.
42:51
Like an hour and 40 -something minutes. Yeah, it was almost two hours long on the occult and different tools of the occult and warning
42:58
Christians to stay away from these things. So while it's not possible for you to be possessed, you can be oppressed. And if you open your life to these sorts of things, you're dabbling in darkness.
43:06
And what's that famous saying? If you dance enough with the devil, he's going to want to come home with you.
43:15
I haven't heard that, but that's exactly right. I think, you know, if you're subject to this, you don't know
43:22
Christ, you should have every reason to fear. Because unless Jesus drives out your demons, you will be possessed.
43:32
Right? I mean, talking about the man in Mark 5 who was shackled and subject to the spiritual forces, coupled together with the narrative about having the house swept clean, right?
43:42
When Jesus is giving that picture, like unless God sweeps the house, that's the point, is
43:47
God has to do the cleaning. Yeah. Because if you try to do it and ward off these evil spirits, they're going to come back stronger and there's going to be more of them.
43:55
Yeah. And they're going to overpower you and overtake you. God has to be the one to drive out our demons.
44:00
That's right. He has to be the one to clean us up from the inside because if he does, then we'll actually be changed and we'll be under his authority.
44:06
And let's remember, when he sweeps that house, he also takes up residence there. That's right. And he's not sharing with the enemy.
44:12
And so I just didn't, I don't want to hear other people's opinions. I just want to see what's in there. And so I spent a year and a half reading it and then
44:18
I started rereading it and it was just a transformative experience for me, but I'm not, you know, holding myself out as someone from whom you could get theological advice because I'm not.
44:29
Sure, of course. I mean, I don't know. I don't understand any of it, but yeah, that happens. Do you think God allowed the demon? I have no idea what happened.
44:35
All I know is I was dead asleep with my wife and dogs and I woke up with claw marks on my ribcage underneath my arms and it didn't even make sense.
44:45
My arms would, anyway, whatever. I'm not, no one has to believe me. I don't care. It doesn't matter. But that happened to me and so I just was like, wow, that, that's real.
44:55
Whatever that is, I'm not even sure what it is. It's very real. And so then that presence of that evil, launches something.
45:06
It is real. Yeah. And I, I do love, I do love the part of the testimony that Tucker keeps going back to.
45:14
Like, I don't have an explanation for it. You don't have to believe me. I know what happened to me and this is my experience. I didn't understand it.
45:20
It's not even part of my own faith tradition to believe in this sort of a thing. All I can say is that it happened to me.
45:25
I've got proof it happened to me and that's all there is. And it drives him now into this journey where he's now reading the
45:31
Bible. So praise God for that, Tucker. I'm praying for you, brother. And grateful to have been able to listen to this story before we jump into the stories.
45:41
Do you want to say anything before? I would just say that that it makes sense given the arenas that he's speaking into.
45:46
Like, I would classify him as a voice of truth. Yeah. On a number of different fronts. Oh, yeah. And he is hated by so many,
45:54
I'm sure. But even before he has become self -conscious of his Christian commitments to this extent,
46:00
I think you could reasonably say this man is speaking truth. Yeah. Like, I don't know if he knows Christ exactly, where he's at.
46:06
He might profess faith, but... Well, he said he's getting closer and closer to being a Calvinist. So... Lord willing.
46:11
Every day. But it's interesting, and I know you're going to share your experiences, but how a man even speaking into the political arena, the arena of law and policy, like,
46:22
I think the Bible affords us the privilege of understanding that demons, principalities, dark spiritual forces, there's specific interaction with that realm going on.
46:34
Yeah. So rulers and authorities, kings and so on. So I think for anyone, any
46:39
Christian who wants to bring the word of God into the polis, into the public square, whether that's evangelism on the street, or whether that's in the halls of the legislature, you're opening yourself up to demonic opposition, because you're bringing the word of God into the public square, where it's not just in the walls of the church.
47:00
Like, if you're going to take an offensive posture against Satan, be prepared for some pushback.
47:06
That's right. Whether you talk to missionaries on the front, frontier missions work, work where they're working in heavily occultic areas and the cults and all that activity.
47:17
Don't be surprised if there's opposition as you're bringing it, because it's a response to what you're doing.
47:24
It is a response, and as much as you and I, before my experience in Colorado, had already had other experiences, it's not, even with those experiences,
47:34
I wasn't in a place where I'm looking for it. I'm sort of oblivious to it in some sense. I know it's there.
47:39
We're fighting against spiritual forces of wickedness, but I'm not waiting for the next moment, the next experience.
47:44
I would kind of not like to have it. Yeah. We'll talk about Kauai here after this story, the experiences you and I had in a very dark place, very, very scary things that were happening to us and to the team.
47:57
But when I was in Colorado, what was it, two years ago? Maybe two years ago for our bill. Possibly.
48:03
For our bill of abolition there in Colorado, I knew that, you know, I was about to stand before a legislature that was...
48:11
Hostile. Very hostile. Hates me. When they see me in Colorado, it's just scowling at me. You know, scowling with the face mask on.
48:17
Behind the beard and the dress. The face mask. It's either a face mask and squinty eyes and scowling like this the whole time while I'm testifying, or it's a dude in a dress as a legislator.
48:29
Yes, it is. And so they don't like me. It's a very spiritually dark setting to come into.
48:35
Unfortunately for Colorado currently, it won't always be that way, 1 Corinthians 15. But, so,
48:41
I was going to testify and we were scheduled to testify for the bill early the next morning.
48:48
So I get into Colorado and I decided I'm gonna get to bed a little earlier tonight so I can make sure I get up and I'm, you know, feeling refreshed and I have some good sleep so I can communicate clearly.
48:58
The older I get, the less clearly I communicate without sleep. And so I was like trying to think ahead and get some sleep and that was my main concern.
49:05
I gotta get to bed so I can get up and, you know, have some, you know, sleep so I can speak clearly.
49:11
So, I go to bed early. Now when I went to bed in my hotel room, I am just thinking about testifying tomorrow and on behalf of these babies and to abolish abortion in the state of Colorado.
49:22
So I'm laying in the hotel room which is me alone and I have my bathroom door on the other side of the thing here kind of cracked with the light on so if I have to get up at night
49:33
I'm not gonna fall over and so I fall asleep. And I get woken up and it was around 3 a .m.
49:43
I get woken up and I wake up because I can't breathe and I realize as I'm coming out of sleep that I'm being forced down into the bed and I can't move my body around because I'm being pressed down and I realize as I'm coming out of this sleep that I'm being choked.
50:02
Now my first thought I remember very vividly was am I dreaming? Is this a dream
50:07
I need to pull myself out of? You're questioning consciousness, reality. Do I need to fight to get out of this dream? And then
50:13
I realize that it's getting worse. The choking is getting harder and heavier and I'm being pushed further down and so I think the first thing that happened is
50:21
I started to groan but as I groan it's groaning like this. It's like something's on my throat and so I realize that now this is real life.
50:32
I don't see anything also. This is real life. This is reality. I'm not dreaming.
50:39
And my eyes are opening and I can see the bathroom door still crack. Lights coming into the room and I'm being pinned down but I could move my arms because those aren't being pinned down so I realize that I'm being choked by something and so I start to try to grab at what's choking me to get a hold of it but as I'm swinging my arms to grab at it
51:02
I'm not catching anything. There's nothing there to grab but as soon as I start to make an attempt to grab this something that's pushing me down and choking me it immediately gets harder like it's responding to my trying to swat and so I'm getting pressed further and further and all you can hear is this gurgling coming from my throat because I'm trying to yell out but the pressure's getting harder and so I vividly remember hearing my own gurgling and trying to yell in the room around me and I can see everything but I can't see anything in front of me and so this is all taking it feels like time has slowed down but I remember all these little steps in between I'm trying to figure out what it is okay then
51:50
I realize this is clearly not something from this world this is clearly demonic and so I'm trying to yell and grab and then
51:58
I realize there's no way that that's gonna stop this thing and so the more I'm trying to like yell the harder the pressure is getting on my throat and so I realize of course the only thing
52:10
I can do is to call out in Jesus name to get this thing off of me yeah that was one of the questions
52:16
I wanted to ask you about that yeah so you realize that you're powerless in that moment in terms of physically powerless
52:23
I can't I can't do anything to this thing that has nothing to grab on to but it has some ability to impact me physically because I am being choked harder now and so I start to yell out and I can't breathe and it's you can hear my throat being pressed as I'm yelling out and so I call out in Jesus name and I say to to whatever this is
52:46
I say for it to release me in Jesus name but as I'm saying it it sounds like this in the room release me in Jesus like that I'm being choked so I'm not able to yell it out
52:56
I'm just kind of whispering it out release me in Jesus name and then
53:02
I say leave in Jesus name and I think I maybe said it twice and then it starts to release relax and then you felt you felt the whole energy just leave the room just dissipate so I sit up in bed and of course
53:19
I'm taking deep breaths and I'm looking around and I'm like that really happened yeah that really happened and so I but you visibly
53:30
I mean you you felt the atmosphere change everything changed like it was experientially different and that's the second time
53:35
I had to experience actual contact with a demon where I could say it was right there it was it was trying to do something to me and you feel sort of the room feels like the the environment gets thicker and heavier and it's everything around you you sense it it's everywhere up above you around you you feel it on top of you so I feel it disappear and so I for a few minutes try to recover and take some deep breaths and I'm praying and I thank you
53:59
Lord thank you God for that and Lord I pray that even right now you'd protect me from all the enemies you know plotting and scheming right now and so I ended up that was like 3 a .m.
54:09
I had to be at the legislature I think at 7 yeah and so you didn't go back to sleep probably what was the strategy
54:15
I think was to make me not get any sleep just to rough me up to make it harder for me to testify the next day because I didn't sleep the rest of the time
54:24
I not only that I think cause the devil and demonic forces I mean one of their
54:30
M .O .s strategically they will exploit physical infirmity and weakness I think yeah
54:35
I think you see the young boy in scripture that was mute couldn't speak that was seizing up and such at the very least you have to believe that they will exploit weakness to that measure so lack of sleep you know physical infirmities of course trying to you know not have that not have you be on top of your game well the funny thing is is
54:57
I think that this is a lesson for me to be more aware and be more prayerful and not that we don't pray and pray against this stuff but to be more seriously focused on what's happening and I think the problem is is that you sort of get into a mode where you're just serving you're doing you're trying to be faithful you're doing your thing the
55:16
Lord wants me here I'm gonna go there the Lord wants me to say this I'm gonna say this I'm gonna go here and you sort of just get into like a rhythm I'm gonna do this so I will say in Colorado I was just in a rhythm
55:24
I wasn't thinking about it I was oblivious tomorrow I'm gonna testify I'm testifying on behalf of these babies I'm trying to establish justice we're trying to end the slaughter in the state of Colorado and I was oblivious to the fact that hey
55:33
Jeff wake up like there's a real spiritual darkness here and you're about to do something that these things hate and so I will admit to being in that moment oblivious and sort of just in the mode of just work just be faithful just go just do but not really prayerful enough to pray against this stuff and I believe that that was a strategy personally because as soon as it leaves it leaves me in a state where of course now my adrenaline is up you wake up to being choked by a demon it tends to keep you awake for a little bit right not to mention that too but I'm sure the fear that you can tend to feel in those moments like I know what it's like knowing there you know you wake up and something's here yeah that is not clean yeah there is something dark there is a presence in this room that is not good yeah and I think the fear is a factor of intimidation oh for sure so the enemy wants to intimidate you into silence yeah the enemy wants to intimidate you so that you stop ministering so that you stop proclaiming the word and push you by fear how can
56:38
I intimidate this man so that you shut up yeah so that you stop stop doing what you're doing
56:44
I think that fear is just not talked about enough like that's the purpose I think too is just to rough you up because then if you're roughed up man okay
56:52
I need to think twice about being involved in this right and I would I would describe the feeling not fearful of oh no there's a demon what am
57:04
I going to do it was more like once I realized what this was there was no fear over okay I'm like all right that's obvious I know what that was but of course it's a strange experience nothing to that level has ever been done to me before but I would describe the feeling in that moment of being choked and being pressed into the bed
57:19
I would describe it as exactly like all the times in my past where I've gotten into a physical fight with somebody and so I was you know raised in DC and so I have a number of examples in my life where I had to like literally fight for my life being jumped and things like that you know
57:34
DC at the time was the murder capital of the world and just a dangerous place in some corners and I would describe what
57:43
I experienced when I was being choked as exactly the human response condition that you have when you have to get into a physical altercation your adrenaline pumps and you're ready to swing everything turns into a pinpoint you know and that's what
57:57
I felt and so and I'll end this I'll end this with how I tried to filter this out in my mind was it was obviously very early you know 3 or 4 a .m.
58:09
the first thing I did is when it was an appropriate time to leave a message for the team I were you in the thread when
58:16
I left that message? Possibly I don't remember so we have a thread with leaders in the abolitionist movement from across the country oh yes where we're all where we're all communicating together and so when it was an appropriate time before I headed to the capital that day
58:29
I came on there and I sort of was like hey guys you know yeah hey you know this might sound a little weird and so I started describing to everybody on the thread who's involved in the same ministry that we are standing for these pre -born children trying to establish justice standing outside of abortion mills very spiritually dark places
58:48
I described what happened to me and I asked everybody like do you know anything like this has this ever happened to any of you and it was so encouraging to me that there were a number of men on that thread who essentially said that literally just happened to me you know two months ago or the same experience just happened to me and I ended up getting on the phone with another brother who's really well known in this movement he's been fighting this battle for decades and when
59:15
I was on the phone with him I described it to him and he said Jeff that's happened to me numerous times and he said essentially it's always when you are in the midst of some very meaningful very serious attack on darkness and that's when they're responding in that way and so I don't know what it was about Colorado that day but clearly something wanted me to not be able to speak that day
59:36
I did do that with almost no sleep and so thank the Lord by God's spirit
59:42
I was able to testify at least communicate in a coherent way on behalf of the bill but I do believe that the strategy was to rough me up so that I wouldn't get any sleep
59:51
I think in Daniel and other places we see the angels before the you know the kings and authorities to persuade them with the truth and I think that's what believers in some measure like you're testifying against Satan's crown jewel the slaughter of human life and children image bearers of God in the womb like you have to expect that there's going to be opposition that it's not uncontested ground like Satan is not going to relinquish that that's what his prize possession is that and so like I said when believers do this man for me you know
01:00:29
Tucker's story very similar you know my wife and I involved in that too and you know you wake up and you know she woke up one night and well give everyone the context real fast so we're
01:00:42
I mean we're in Kauai and we're I'm just going give everyone a sense of that though with Kauai like why would this be like a hotbed very dark spiritual place there's a ton of occultic interaction you know all of the occultic new age vibe experience that you would expect in kind of an amalgamation of spiritual activity and so there's the cults there's the new age and all of it's kind of together right there's no there's very little like solid clear lines of truth and you know it's just the spiritual climate it's amidst a melting pot of spirituality in a place like that so you have you know the dark stuff the witchcraft the occult all of that together and then you're out proclaiming the gospel in the midst of it so you're out preaching in the public square you're preaching in the beach you're ministering the homeless camps and you know you're doing that consistently over weeks that you're there or days and you know you're engaged in that work you're interacting with people and sometimes the people are hostile you know like they are anywhere else that you're proclaiming the truth but you know you end up going to bed one night and you know my wife was you know asleep we're both asleep she feels a push on her shoulder like someone is shoving her off the bed and you know she looks over and I'm completely asleep
01:02:07
I'm rolled over on the other side of the bed just completely asleep unconscious and so there's that aspect and then she woke up you know the next night after knowing that I was on the other side of the bed the previous night and looking and like okay he's there but literally there's something that just walked in front of the bed like there is something there and yet my husband is here in the bed so okay process of elimination here we're the only two people in this room and there's something there that's not him so there's that and then the following night it was along the lines of being choked right my wife you know pinned down choked and then the following morning after that experience you know claw marks you know my wife describes it in this way you know
01:02:55
I felt burning sensation on my arm my shoulder area right it felt like it was on fire and then she looked down and there's three distinct claw marks it looks like someone like took their fingernails and just went down like this on her arm and so that experience coupled together with you know noises you hear so footsteps walking down the hall coupled together with that dark presence you know and I just remember being there and we're just like let's pray now let's just start praying we start praying you start reading scripture you know you start appealing to Jesus's name you start appealing to his blood you know to protect you but that's why when
01:03:35
Tucker describes it like that I mean 100 % that I I wasn't firsthand experiencing the what you guys experienced but being in the presence of it being around it hearing things seeing things being in that context again we just shouldn't be surprised that when you're in a place like that that is a hotbed of spiritual activity you're gonna come up against something like that and having practical experience with it is great because then you're not surprised by it or taken off guard and we've talked about this a lot but there's the subtle aspect where you get thoughts implanted in your mind that are not of you right
01:04:16
I didn't have that thought that was like oh like you're horrible like why are you even here you're an imposter you're a faker you're a pretender or to hurt yourself even right see that knife over there just get that knife and do something with it so there's a self -destructive aspect that the enemy tries to tempt us into and you see that also in some accounts of the demonic possession you look for characteristics or traits a lot of times when people would tell me as a pastor they're telling me that I think
01:04:47
I have some demonic experience or possession I want to ask questions that relate directly to characteristics we find in scripture for demonic possession so in scripture there is something common a thread with demonic possession oppression and that is that demons love to have people hurt themselves and so with the man who was possessed in the tombs he's cutting himself with rocks cutting himself the boy casting himself into the fire next one the boy casting himself into the fire so there's something about demonic possession or oppression that tries to cause an image bearer of God to injure themselves or harm themselves suicidal tendencies exactly you see that and throwing yourself into the fire what's that for?
01:05:30
to kill yourself and harm yourself and so when we were working in Kauai one of the things that was obvious at the very front of that mission was just how much the island itself is inundated by the occult and the cults and so you've got
01:05:44
Jehovah's Witnesses you've got Mormonism you have the Shinto temples the Buddhism all the idolatry all the worship of idols and you know that behind every idol is a demon and so you also have the experience of people who are just heavily engaged in the occult in the new age and so that island is beautiful beautiful looks like the
01:06:05
Garden of Eden but man it is spiritually dark the psychedelic stuff the horoscopes the tarot card reading the
01:06:11
Reiki energy healing the yoga I mean all the practices if you go to the coffee shops if you go to the community boards the community board is inundated with all transcendental meditation like all astrology all of those it's like 9 to 1 9 to 1 occultism new age stuff new age practices to one local handyman or you know something like that the ads are that way and all the shops and the community boards so that's that's what you're walking into and so there was that mission we had where we needed to come minister to the team something was clearly wrong and that's what we knew something is not right the team wasn't being completely up front with us to say exactly what was going on and so we said we gotta get out there we gotta help the team we gotta serve them and so I come out now listen
01:06:59
I'm gonna say things right now that I don't think that I've said publicly Zach knows we've said these in private because when
01:07:05
I had the experiences I told Zach and I told the team so I'll say it like Tucker said you might think I'm crazy
01:07:10
I don't care what you think I know what we experienced I know what I experienced and our team understands this so we get to Kauai and we're there to help the team and try to offer them encouragement and get them back on their feet and I'm there for a period
01:07:22
I think of two weeks two and a half weeks or something like that and I want you to know that this has never happened to me in my life
01:07:29
I never had these thoughts before it's not a common experience for me it's not something that ever entered into my mind so I start to feel like this very dark presence and it's like we talked about before it's like it's on you it's around you and it's it was oppressive and I kind of kept it to myself
01:07:49
I was like you know this is really something kind of palpable and it would just sort of follow us around wherever we were on the island it was just something was odd and something was very serious so then
01:08:01
I started to experience like these random random thoughts like I can't describe it as something that was audible it's not something that was like out in the air you could have recorded it but it was like not mine and it was coming into my head the best way
01:08:17
I could describe it is like a voice in your head which sounds crazy right like it sounds like you're talking crazy because you're saying
01:08:23
I hear voices in my head right but it's not you it's not my voice yeah it's not you it's suggestive it's subtle it's clearly a foreign accusatory it's a foreign one right and so I started to experience like just periodically throughout the day
01:08:36
I started experiencing kill yourself yeah what is that and it just it would happen like kill yourself now there was nothing no thought of me yeah
01:08:47
I should go ahead and do that but it was like kill yourself and so it happened for a period of a couple of days and I remember
01:08:54
I was out front with my wife Candy on one of the days and it happened so much that I ended up just sort of telling
01:09:00
Candy I said hey babe I gotta tell you something really weird I'm are you sensing what
01:09:07
I'm sensing like there's something going on here right now something very dark and she said well yes and I said but I'm getting these weird thoughts like it's just coming into my head it's kill yourself kill yourself leave kill yourself and she's like wow so you know so we're praying through that and I'm just trying to put it in the right category
01:09:28
I've never experienced it before I'm not looking for this sort of a thing and it's just happening to me so then I meet with the team and I meet with two couples separately on really different parts of the island and I meet with the first couple they're sort of telling me what they're going through and how we can help and serve them and all the rest and I realize pastorally you have an instinct you know
01:09:47
I realize I'm not getting the whole story like there's something else I need to help you with like how else can
01:09:54
I encourage you and they were just like I can tell they were holding it back like they were afraid to say it to me and I said no guys come on I'm here to minister to you to care for your soul what's going on like tell me and then they both husband and wife break down and start crying and I'm like alright we're getting to something now what's going on and so then they both described to me
01:10:13
I had not shared with them anything they both described to me to a T everything that I was experiencing on the island this dark presence this follow me around and they said we're having like you know just random parts of the day we'll just be out doing something all of a sudden we're having these like thoughts bombard us kill yourself kill yourself kill yourself and I'm just thinking to myself
01:10:36
I had not even told them what I experienced so then I keep that between us we pray over this we pray against this sort of a thing and it just really helped them so then
01:10:46
I go to meet with the next family on the next day I shared nothing nothing with them about the other couple or myself
01:10:55
I'm meeting with them we're talking fellowshipping things are good then they start saying here's what we're struggling this what's going on we need help here and then so I'm sort of like watching them kind of slowly devolve into like really revealing like what's what's going on and then they finally get to the point where I'm like you're not telling me everything
01:11:12
I get the same sense with you same sense I was like come on guys tell me what's going on and then the flood gates open and it's now they weren't crying but theirs was more of an intensity like oh we gotta tell you this we gotta tell you what's going on and then they start describing all these experiences that are happening in their bedroom at night same kinds of things that Taryn and you experienced and then they start describing you know something in their house like you know walking right past them the same kind of experiences with paralysis and in bed being pinned down and then they reveal this one that they're experiencing these thoughts coming into their head kill yourself right kill yourself leave the island kill yourself and so it was amazing because I had not even shared with them my experience that was my experience it's just what happened and I was looking for it to happen and then both couples were experiencing the same kind of attack as we were on this mission for Kauai I mean yeah how do you explain that I mean the only way to do it is just to understand
01:12:17
I think Christians maybe can we speak to this just for a second like Christians this isn't a normative thing like Christians at least
01:12:26
I don't feel that way like Christians don't normally experience hearing these suggestive or even you know commanding directive dark thoughts kill yourself they don't experience normally scratch marks or claw marks or paralysis or being pinned down or choked or anything like that so I think we can be lulled into a sense of asking the question the bigger question am
01:12:49
I doing work for God's kingdom that matters if I'm not experiencing these things like I've had those thoughts before like if I'm not coming up against this kind of a thing
01:13:01
I think some believers sometimes can ask that question like have I done anything lately for the kingdom that matters and I would just try to encourage you
01:13:10
I think that that passage in Ephesians six ten be strong in the
01:13:15
Lord and in the strength of his might it's the only power like you said that overcomes these forces of darkness be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might can't be overcome physically it's a spiritual fight but that passage comes right on the heels of husbands love your wives and wives submit to your husbands and children obey your parents and the
01:13:35
Lord every day we're experiencing spiritual warfare in trying to govern our our lives accordingly according to God's word within our families our marriages we all experience spiritual warfare on a daily basis right kids rebelling you know marital conflict between husband and wife you know trying to provide for everybody make sure everyone's taken care of being subject to those evil thoughts like you should be fearful about the future you should have every right to fear about what's coming you know you're not secure in Christ you know your family's gonna fail you're not gonna have enough money all this stuff right so we're going through it all the time but I still think
01:14:15
Christians if they're not like oh well I'm not on the front lines on an island preaching the gospel and I'm not encountering things like that so does that mean that Satan doesn't care enough to try to take me out yeah well
01:14:29
I don't know I don't know what you think about that but I just because this is not a normative thing I think
01:14:35
I can count on one two maybe three times I think there's degrees for sure there's degrees of oppression degrees of attack all of us are getting them all the time it could it could be down to even like the temptations and lustful things that are presented before us influence and opportunities to sin to take you down yeah to ruin your marriage to ruin your church those kinds of things like Satan can literally send a woman into a pastor's office with influence to try to take down his ministry through sexual temptation not to mention our own totally believe that now that's not a physical mark or kill yourself kill yourself but it certainly is a messenger of Satan I guess
01:15:12
I'm just asking like we spend so much time tripping ourselves up like we trip over our own sin and we're trying to pursue holiness and righteousness every day and that seems like spiritual warfare enough just getting over myself right and not getting in my own way like dang it
01:15:29
I did this sin again you know like and then there's the side where the attack comes externally like from the enemy you know
01:15:36
I don't know if it's so nightly or so rightly classified and divided up that way but just food for thought
01:15:42
I would just say it's degrees it's my answer is definitely degrees it's degrees yeah it's degrees the enemy knows how to try to exploit us
01:15:49
I would like to never experience it again I'll be honest I'm not looking for it don't want it definitely we're all in a life of sanctification
01:15:58
I think my own failure of the moment in Colorado was just being sort of oblivious myself of if you would have asked me is there spiritual darkness is there spiritual attack is this all deeply spiritual
01:16:10
I'll give you every right answer because I believe it but I was totally oblivious I'm like I'm in Colorado we got a bill praise the lord
01:16:16
I got to testify I got to be faithful but I'm just not aware of how much this thing hates me yeah and and so it was a surprise to me maybe
01:16:27
I should go to bed when we're testifying for these bills with a little more you know you know a little more awareness that's
01:16:33
I don't know it might be 3 a .m. yeah I might have to have a conversation with the enemy and so what we're gonna do is just play through don't go anywhere guys
01:16:43
I got one more story about how of actual contact with the demonic while I was a chaplain at the hospital and this was and in many ways more if you could use the word terrifying without saying you know
01:16:59
I'm afraid of the enemy and like greater is he who is in me than he was in the world but more of a terrifying experience humanly speaking because of just what happened in that moment it wasn't something like being choked in the bed but I'll share it with you before we do
01:17:15
I'm gonna play this clip short clip from dr. Walter Martin on the history and background of the devil
01:17:22
Lucifer we have to understand that there is an historical background and that historical background is
01:17:29
Satan he has always been everything from fascinating to revolting and as far back as you can go into the study of religions you will find some impressed or image of Satan you will find it in the
01:17:43
Caldean you will find it in the Babylonian you will find various caricatures and portrayals of Satan but the clearest picture of Satan or the devil the adversary
01:17:55
Apollon Abaddon Belial as he is called Beelzebub in the
01:18:01
New Testament the clearest portrait comes from the Bible the Judeo -Christian religious heritage and therefore it's important for us to understand the nature of Satan according to Ezekiel chapter 28 who is addressed there under the figure of the king of Tyre was created being a marvelous messenger of light his very name
01:18:25
Lucifer means light bearer and he occupied a tremendous position of responsibility in the kingdom of heaven the gospel of Luke tells us that he was hurled from heaven and he was driven out according to the
01:18:38
Old Testament by Michael or Michael as we have it in English Archangelos the archangel or the first of the angelic hosts he and a large segment of followers rebelled against the throne of God we are told that he sought not to be
01:18:55
God but to be like God that is to share the characteristics and the power which
01:19:01
God himself had we also know from a study of Genesis chapter three that he conquered earth by penetrating the
01:19:10
Edenic paradise of God and there causing our first parents to sin now there are many people that say well you don't really think that that happened that's totally irrelevant
01:19:21
I happen to do I happen to believe that it happened but that's irrelevant the fact remains that Satan did penetrate the human race all one has to do is study the history of mankind and whether it was
01:19:35
Adam and Eve or Charlie and Mabel suddenly disappears from significance he is here alive well thriving and powerful on planet earth and he must be confronted in the light of scripture and by the power which
01:19:52
God has given the church of Jesus Christ historically he conquered our first parents and penetrated and corrupted earth as he did the entire cosmic structure in Exodus chapter 7 he has the power to work miracles and in Job chapters 1 and 2 he obviously has the authority to reach out and manipulate the elements world winds and lightning and to influence nations so that they rise up and do battle against those that he desires he is not caricatured in history dressed in a red union suit he does not have a goatee horns or a pointed tail nor a cloven hoof these are figures assigned to him and they always caricature him as smelling of sulfur and reeking with flames let me assure you from biblical theology he has never been near any flames of that nature and he does not desire ever to be such
01:20:55
I also want to point out that Satan is not a he as we understand he or a she
01:21:01
Satan is according to biblical theology an I that is personality we don't want to think of it in terms of sex because we'll stir up the male chauvinists and the female chauvinists we want to remember the devil is sexless and Satan is a spirit described in the
01:21:20
Bible as a proud spirit an entity created in another dimension by an all powerful being the
01:21:27
God of the Bible the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ the God of the prophets and of Moses the
01:21:33
God of biblical revelation he was created to serve the Lord but he was given free will he exercised that will by his own choice against the sovereignty of God and because of that he fell from his first estate or position of glory and he uttered the terrible pronouncement
01:21:53
I will be like God I will ascend I I I his constant affirmation now
01:22:01
Milton made him in paradise lost and regained somewhat of a hero and many magazines in reviewing the exorcist and discussing the subject of exorcism have portrayed the power of Satan in such a way that it makes it appear as if in the words of one magazine
01:22:19
Jesus Christ is pallid by comparison nothing could be further from the truth for though his power is enormous and though he exercised that power he was encountered by the last
01:22:33
Adam Jesus Christ and he was defeated the scripture tells us that Christ encountered him in the garden in the glory of the resurrection and death was swallowed up in victory in John chapter 14 the
01:22:49
Lord Jesus said though he is defeated never forget that actually he is powerful and he is capable of great authority he said the prince of this world or literally in the
01:23:02
Greek the ruler of this world is coming and finds nothing in me now you and I can't say that what we have to say is the ruler of this world has come and he has found plenty in us very good
01:23:16
I love Dr. Walter Martin if you don't have it on your bookshelf I encourage you to get it
01:23:21
Kingdom of the Occult Kingdom of the Occult by Dr. Walter Martin Dr.
01:23:27
Martin was the first man who gave me my theological training although he was with the Lord when he did so I don't mean
01:23:33
I had that you know in some spiritual realm I mean that his tape ministry at the time from Christian Research Institute was what somebody gave to me and so my initial theological training was from Dr.
01:23:44
Walter Martin and so I love the man I used to fall asleep listening to those cassettes so his voice just brings me brings me back and so I wanted to make a point and then get to the last story and let everyone go for the day that it's post cross, post resurrection and post ascension that the
01:24:03
Apostle Peter says to be sober be vigilant because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour so is the devil defeated he's a defeated enemy yes did
01:24:18
Jesus defeat him at the cross well he was disarmed and put into a spiritual underpants at the cross essentially is the portrayal that's given there the ruler of this world has been cast out yes and judged and so he's no longer allowed to deceive the nations the gospel can go to the nations now they're not in those kinds of chains any longer however it is after the ascension of Jesus that the
01:24:39
Apostle Peter under divine inspiration says to be sober Christian be vigilant because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour so what capabilities exactly does he have today under the new covenant and with Christ ruling you know we can give some examples we can speculate in terms of like what kind of oppression those kinds of things but we do know is that after the ascension of Jesus that the devil is still a roaring lion seeking to devour people and so that is what is clear so I this last story
01:25:12
I'll have just sort of to buttress the story from Tucker is while I was the chaplain at the hospital
01:25:19
I had many many instances it was actually something that was surprising to me I didn't expect to have this many experiences or to have this many conversations like this where I had so many experiences of people who had made contact with the other side or had dabbled in the occult and mind -altering drugs and substances to talk to the other side that was surprising to me that was a real thing and it was a current thing and you know these people are you know drug addicts and they're in the inpatient program they're on detoxification medicine and they'd sit down with me and I'd hear their story and I'd be giving them the gospel and then many times they'd be explaining to me the contact that they had had and they were trying to ask for answers like what does all this mean one common thread
01:25:58
I've already announced is that a lot of their experiences when they would describe an experience to me I'd say oh okay interesting
01:26:04
I would never want to feed them information I would always want to say things oh interesting what time at night was that when that happened it was always the same thing why is that the witching hour interesting you know common thread and um you know the same kind of experiences of being pinned to the bed you know the claw marks um and so I sit down with this uh very beautiful young woman and uh she's somewhere in her 20s and she tells me that she's raised in a
01:26:28
Christian home under the hearing of the gospel you know went to youth group and you know youth camps and all the rest you know standard fair evangelical youth experience and I want to say at the outset that as I sat with her though she was this young beautiful woman she looked like she had no life in her
01:26:46
I mean her eyes looked um hard to describe just sort of like there was no life there dead uh she just did not look well and it wasn't just like she didn't look physically well it she just looked like she had no soul um and so it was interesting but uh she started to tell me her story of um the scary things that had been happening to her and so she tells me some stuff that's happening to her and things like she's waking up to being pinned down she said she woke up one night and you know people can think this is far -fetched all they want but in my experience with her it is most certainly true she woke up and she was actually hovering above her bed and being held up by uh surrounded by these things and they were holding her up and um she said that when she initially started this experience with communicating with the other side it was exciting she was getting all kinds of really cool benefits to communicating with these entities from the other side like information information information about people she knew things that she shouldn't really know and they would tell her uh and the way that she got into this whole thing was this way born and raised in a
01:27:56
Christian home youth group youth camp all that stuff and then her father when she's like 18 or 19 years old who raised them in this
01:28:03
Christian house going to church and all the rest always talking about the bible and you know stay away from the occult and tarot cards and all the rest uh he ends up abandoning the family and going to shack up with some other woman leaves the wife and the kids and commits adultery abandons the marriage and so she was so angry with him for doing this that she decided to revolt against him and everything he ever taught her so she specifically got into uh drugs and alcohol and she became a stripper and she got into the occult and she said that she knows that she did it specifically to irritate him and just as an act of of swinging back at him so many connections there between sexuality the occult uh divination the bible says it says witchcraft and rebellion so it's a form of rebellion specifically what she got into she specifically got into the world of witchcraft the occult and she started communicating with the other side and again she describes as she's describing this to me she's describing it to me in a way where the story always begins the same way there's a benefit it seems wonderful it seems exciting and then it takes a dark turn just a little ways down the road that is a common thread right these entities all of a sudden start becoming nefarious it's like everyone that talks about the
01:29:15
DMT trips you know DMT these creatures that everyone's meeting in DMT trips they're kind to me they're helpful when you first get there they're so helpful they're so nice and then things just go they take a quick turn well then people who are taking these
01:29:28
DMT trips will say I don't talk to them anymore don't talk to them or they'll even tell people when you go into there you're going to meet these things on the other side don't talk to them they're going to act nice to you and they're going to seem like they're really helpful but just stay away from them don't look at them don't talk to them and you know
01:29:44
I was just listening to a guy fairly recently talking about he does regular DMT trips and how when he began he would talk to those things but now he specifically avoids them and will not talk to them because they're nefarious they're scary they're dark they're evil they mean you harm he said and so she has that kind of experience so she's describing this whole thing to me and all
01:30:03
I'm doing is listening to her trying to figure out how do I bring the gospel into this conversation with her and so I did
01:30:09
I just started you know sort of I'm just going oh that sounds compelling interesting okay she's clearly lost she needs the gospel so all
01:30:16
I'm focusing on is the gospel is just presenting the gospel her need to turn to Christ for forgiveness and salvation that's my main focus that's all
01:30:24
I'm really thinking about I'm thinking well this is really compelling it makes a lot of sense that's how you got into the occult all right and so this is you know our first meeting and so I I'm in the room the doors open and I never counsel a woman alone or with the door without somebody able to see in or the door you know closed or anything and so you know the doors open and you know there's people in the office but they're kind of around the corner here and so you know we're not speaking really loud or anything but you know
01:30:51
I said okay well can I pray for you I gave her the gospel can I pray for you yes so I remember this vividly
01:30:57
I bow my head and all I'm thinking is just praying for her salvation and just you know praying the
01:31:02
Lord would open her eyes to the gospel so as I start praying for this young woman I'm like Lord I pray that you would open her eyes to your truth you know
01:31:10
I'm doing all that I can to make sure I'm praying to her and that she's hearing the gospel even in my prayer and then all at once the room fills up with this presence and the best way
01:31:26
I can describe it is that it's tangible you could almost like you can reach out and touch it and the what
01:31:34
I was feeling in that moment was hatred it's the same kind of feeling imagine you had a fight with somebody an argument with somebody and they are so angry with you
01:31:45
I mean you can see it in their eyes they're screaming and they're yelling and you feel you feel their hatred you sense their hatred towards you you know that feeling that's what
01:31:56
I felt all of a sudden surrounding me and on me this hatred hatred for me and so I am surprised by it
01:32:07
I'm just praying for her salvation she told me her story I want her to get saved and praying for salvation what did she look like?
01:32:14
my eyes are down and so I am praying and all of a sudden and it's just hatred hatred hatred and so I realized this is real this is really happening
01:32:28
I mean the hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up I had to have goosebumps all over me and then all of a sudden my prayer switches from praying for her salvation to now
01:32:38
I am praying against what's in the room and I'm like and I'm in that deep like I'm in that deep charismatic kind of prayer
01:32:45
I'm like father in the name of Jesus I pray that you would Lord even now remove the evil element that's in this room and I pray that you protect us right now father and you'd remove this this element of darkness from her life and I'm just like praying intensely now and it's like it's going heavier and heavier and it's just hate it's just increasing and as it increases my voice is increasing and the intensity of my prayer against whatever's going on is increasing and so I'm like in Jesus name
01:33:13
I pray you free her from whatever spirits are here right now God I pray you guard her life and I pray you protect me father in Jesus name and then all of a sudden it goes the bubble burst it just disappears and I'm like I'm probably panting
01:33:28
I'm just I look up at her she looks up at me she looks terrified and then we say nothing to each other
01:33:37
I stand up I walk back out of the room to my office she walks away so over the next couple of weeks she comes to chapel she's under the hearing of the gospel for weeks and praise the
01:33:49
Lord this girl turns to Christ in faith and Zach it was like life was just life
01:33:59
I'd see her in the hallway you know I'd be going to you know going to the nursing station to see who's on my schedule or whatever and all of a sudden she passed by me and she's just like life vibrant life she's alive again just you know hey pastor
01:34:12
Jeff chapel tonight what are we talking about tonight and so I'm just like wow praise the
01:34:17
Lord you know whatever that was oh I forgot to mention I forgot to mention something when that happened that experience
01:34:22
I went to my office she walks out the first phone call I made was as I got myself together is
01:34:28
I ran outside got on the phone pastor Luke I was like Luke you're not going to believe what just happened to me and so I explained the whole thing to Luke he's like oh man that's crazy
01:34:36
I'm like well pray for her so I explained the whole thing I even explained it down to I felt hatred like whatever it was hated me hate that's all
01:34:43
I can describe is hatred so she gets saved and then she has to have her exit interview thing where she's going back now
01:34:50
I forget where she lived she lived in some other state and so she's in front of me she's smiling she's new she's happy she's in Christ her life's transformed she looks you know wonderful and alive you got a bible in her hand kind of a thing and it's just awesome and she's going to be sent home and so we're all rejoicing and praising the
01:35:05
Lord but we hadn't talked to each other yet about what happened that day and so this is my last chance to see her or say something to her so you know
01:35:13
I felt kind of awkward about asking it because I didn't we never said anything to each other remember what happened so that's why
01:35:19
I said hey can I ask you something is sure do you remember that first day we were talking here and then all of a sudden her countenance changed she went from like smiling and vibrant to you know yes and it's like I knew you know what
01:35:36
I'm talking about so I said do you remember how after we finished that day I started praying for you and then she starts crying and I was like so like did you did you feel something in that moment and she's like yes
01:35:52
I said can you describe for me what you felt in that moment because I know what I felt but we've never talked about this what did you feel and she said hatred that's the word the very thing
01:36:07
I couldn't describe it better of what I was feeling in the room was hatred so that's the first word out of her mouth
01:36:14
I said what did you feel she said hatred and I thought oh my goodness how crazy there's two people that hadn't even talked about the experience weeks later she's in Christ she's describing the very thing that I couldn't describe it better it was all
01:36:29
I could sense was whatever it was in the room hated me so it wasn't she wasn't feeling that about you but she felt she felt the room hatred so whatever had a hold of her was very angry with me and filled the room up with this animosity towards me and this hatred towards me and then
01:36:48
God saved her freed her from it and everything else so that was one of my first like real experiences genuine experiences with the darkness like that and it was it was very interesting well
01:36:58
I think coming back wrapping this up this just speaks to the importance of what you said the power of prayer prayer at its most primal is just dependence upon God's power is an acknowledgement on the part of Christians that we can't defeat these things in our own strength it's never gonna happen we're appealing to the one who sits on the throne and throne above principalities rulers and authorities in the heavenly places who has all authority and we are at the risk of sounding
01:37:30
Pentecostal here claiming that authority that we have in him because we only have it in him by virtue of our union with Christ this is something that Christians are in possession of because it is a gift from the
01:37:42
Father God sends the son to forgive us to justify us to reconcile us to God he adopts us into his family and then
01:37:50
God takes up residence within us by the Holy Spirit so that we are his vessel his his his temple his dwelling place and that protection
01:37:59
I think from God is what's included in that every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places
01:38:05
God is our shield he's our refuge he's our our strong tower our fortress and so when we're crying out to God in prayer we have ceased to strive according to the flesh we are purely doing battle upon the spiritual plane in terms of the conflict between the material and the immaterial right that that physical and that spiritual we have ceased to rely upon our own might and we are resisting the enemy we're resisting the devil so that he flees right this this kind won't come out but by prayer and fasting there is a cessation now of my physical exertion upon this realm because I realize that I need to be strong in the
01:38:47
Lord and in the strength of his might and that armor that we put on and that shield that we take up and that helmet that we strap on and that belt of truth and that breastplate of righteousness and that the shoes that are shod with the gospel of peace and that sword of the spirit that we take up which is the word of God to extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one that is the armor that we are to put on we are to adorn we are to clothe ourselves with these with these things so that we can stand right having done all the text says stand immovable in him and stop relying on your own strength stop relying on your own power you have to appeal to the one who is able to actually have the victory over the forces of darkness and prayer is how we get it done very good brother that's excellent excellent counsel everybody thank you for listening today don't forget to go to endabortionnow .com
01:39:40
sign up with us partner with us give financially help us to meet our goal we have approximately 20 bills next session happening across the country bills of abolition equal protection speaking of spiritual forces and darkness and a spiritual war it's a big one pray for us be a part of the movement with us get trained get resources save babies at the mills and then join us as we work to establish justice for these preborn children endabortionnow .com
01:40:05
go there to donate and don't forget also everyone go to ionlayer .com
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good news actually this is really cool ionlayer .com everybody knows
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and type in APOLOGIA in all caps in the coupon code they give you a hook up and they bless this ministry so we can continue the work that we're doing but they just announced actually that they're also doing a new technology and treatments and that is with the master antioxidant in your system glutathione do research on glutathione it's known as the master antioxidant it is incredible what this antioxidant does for your system glutathione use so much in your body unfortunately taking glutathione orally you're getting almost nothing it's almost it's almost completely wasteful to take glutathione orally you really need to do a topical there's some special technologies of a topical that get into your system much more but also this medical patch they're doing with ionlayer glutathione the master antioxidants into your system they have that now again same thing
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APOLOGIA all caps coupon code ionlayer .com love those guys fantastic products
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I'm using it anyways and so we're talking about on the show it's something that I'm a strong believer in again look up the health benefits of both those things
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NAD and glutathione and so if you're interested in focusing on your wellness getting back on your feet again physically great thing to focus on and also everyone go to HeritageDefense .org
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HeritageDefense .org I can't tell you how thankful I am for this particular organization to be able to have access as a homeschooling family as a
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Christian family to an attorney that will defend you for almost nothing what they charge to have them on standby and on call for you is insane it makes no sense to me at all it doesn't make any sense to me at all that they charge what they charge to be able to have them one phone call away if any three letter agencies show up at your door you're a homeschooling family a
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Christian family you say something that's considered hate speech online they show up you just hand them the phone you say talk to my attorney and that is an incredible incredible resource to have if you are a homeschool family you need to have
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Heritage Defense God bless you here's my attorney HeritageDefense .org
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sign up same thing coupon code APOLOGIA they're going to hook you up they bless us as a ministry and I just can't speak highly enough about Heritage Defense they're just fantastic also
01:43:06
I'd say go and head over to Apologia Studios shop where you can get all of the latest merchandise that we offer there
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I don't know I'd have to ask Luke as far as when to place your order to get it by Christmas I can't remember what he said about that soon
01:43:22
I think I think we're almost there we're not quite there so you have some time so head on over to Apologia Studios shop where you can get a lot of Apologia swag you can get pre -sip coffee which is the best part of waking up pre -sip in your cup premium coffee that boasts delightful notes of flowers decadent chocolate and the crisp sweetness of red apples sourced from Ethiopia's Yirgachef and Colombia's Jericho grab a bag and take dominion for Christ one sip at a time alright everybody hey thank you and Amtac Blades too my bad
01:43:54
Bill Rapier the reason Luke's not here today is because him Pastor Zach and my son
01:43:59
Stellar are training right now somewhere in some wilderness with Bill Rapier like the wilderness?
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operator SEAL Team 6 that's how everyone else knows it he's training a bunch of men from Apologia Church on shooting and tactics and self -defense stuff that's why
01:44:18
Luke's not here he's there and I couldn't be there because I'm here with you which I love it's fine totally fine
01:44:24
I'm fine I'm fine sort of but Amtac Blades everybody same thing go get some great gear from Amtac Blades Bill Rapier great godly man fantastic products men self -defense weapons those sorts of things that's where you want to go is to the guy that knows how to use them and how they should be built and so Amtac Blades and Apologia same thing he supports the work of end abortion now go support
01:44:50
Bill Rapier that's Zachary Conover later guys I'm Jeff the Culminator Ninja we're going to head over right now to ApologiaStudios .com
01:44:56
give us a few minutes we're going to do a quick after show with everybody so if you're All Access we're going to spend some private time with you over there