Russell Fuller reveals more, The Getty's invited who?, & SEBTS prof. takes on The Gospel Coalition

Conversations That Matter

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. It is the year of our Lord, 2021.

00:05

It is the sixth day of January. And I mentioned on the podcast yesterday, on the fifth, that I would be devoting today to social justice issues in the church.

00:15

Southern Baptist Convention is the main arena, but we are actually gonna talk about something that touches the

00:21

PCA today as well, because it concerns the Revoice Conference, if you've ever heard of that. And so that should be, hopefully this is good for, helpful for a lot of you who are fighting this battle, at least to be aware of what's going on.

00:37

There's three things I wanna focus on. One is a revelation that,

00:42

I've known about this for about a year, but Russell Fuller, the professor from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, who blew the whistle on what was happening there, he has decided to come out with some new information, at least previously unreleased information to the public.

00:55

And we're gonna talk about that. And that does touch on the Revoice question. We're also gonna talk about the

01:02

Gettys. The Gettys, I know. I do like the Gettys. I like In Christ Alone. I like many of their songs.

01:07

I've been to probably, I don't know, five of their concerts slash worship services, et cetera. I've seen them play at least probably five times, four or five times.

01:15

And use many of their songs when I was a minister of music. I drew on their stuff quite a bit.

01:24

But they've been following an interesting path the last few years, and some people are concerned about it.

01:29

I wanna share with you kind of how I approach this and really just ask you to pray for them more than anything else.

01:37

I'm not here to condemn them. I just, I do think it's good to be aware of the trajectory that their ministry at least seems to be on in some ways.

01:46

And we're also gonna talk about, see there was, oh yes, yes. We're gonna talk about a professor from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary who decided to publish a piece pushing back on the gospel coalition.

02:00

Now, I've said before, I've said this many times, people will strawman me and say that I say that Southeastern and some of these other seminaries are thoroughly woke or social justice or socialist or communist or Marxist or critical theorist or whatever.

02:15

And the reality is I actually don't say that. I will say things like, if I ever do say that a school has been given over to that, it's because the administration is doing that and there's no actual pushback publicly on campus.

02:28

It's not because though, and I've said this numerous times that the professors are all on board. In fact, I've said repeatedly, there are many conservative professors left who are either weak -kneed, they're not gonna stand up.

02:40

I don't really know how, what other purpose to use. I mean, they're afraid they'll lose their job. That's the only thing they have.

02:48

I think something changed though. When Russell Fuller came out and blew the whistle on Southern Seminary, the flagship seminary for the

02:54

Southern Baptist Convention, that was a brave move. And he did so right after he was fired, but it was still a very brave move because he's basically killing any opportunities he has in the convention.

03:06

Well, I think after that, it inspired others. You saw Tom Rush come out. I know

03:11

Professor Orwick there has not done a public interview, but he has allowed people to talk about his opinions on things.

03:23

I know that for a fact. He's allowed people to share his, the letter he wrote to Al Mohler.

03:30

And so there's, I mean, that's in a sense, that's a type of pushback right there. And I get the sense, there's a few other professors that I won't mention by name who probably don't wanna be identified that way who have started to push back in ways that are very indirect.

03:45

And I've been very clear, look, you gotta be direct. At this point, you have to be direct. I don't see it as an option to be indirect in this, but okay, that's me.

03:53

I understand that they're in a hard position. I get that, I get that, I understand that. And I think something might be starting to happen though, that people might, after putting up with this for years,

04:05

I think some professors are starting to get tired of it. Professors at Southeastern even, professors who are conservative, they might start to be tired a little bit of having to endure this woke mess that is displayed in front of them and hoping it'll pass and it doesn't pass.

04:21

And now it's kind of ingrained at the seminary. So I can't get in people's heads.

04:26

I'm not saying that's the reason for this piece by Dr. Little, but it is interesting. It will, one other thing, pieces like this piece that I'm about to read to you from Dr.

04:37

Little, at least portions of, pieces like this might make administrators a little nervous, but they don't, there's kind of this unspoken rule in the

04:48

Southern Baptist Convention. It's probably in a lot of other Christian organizations. You can criticize critical race theory. You can criticize liberal stuff as long, as long as you don't name any names in their little club.

05:00

If you, as soon as you start doing that, if you criticize people in the guild, then you are blacklisted.

05:06

You are the enemy. You are the accuser, as some professors at Southern called

05:12

Dr. Fuller. He was on the side of the accuser. Herschel Walker said that about him. So Dr.

05:22

Little does not name names at Southern, at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, but he does take issue with an article that was written by a graduate from Southern.

05:31

He's dancing on the line, guys. And I just, I have a prediction. I think we're gonna see a little more of this.

05:38

I think some professors are starting to get fed up now. Is it gonna be full blown? They're all gonna go Russell Fuller? Probably not. Will there continue to be a lot of weakness?

05:46

A lot of, probably. But at the same time, if you know these guys, if you know men who are, you know, they're struggling, they're in these institutions, you know, we need to be understanding as well.

05:58

There, yes, there's a lot of weakness, but there's also, some of them are in very hard positions and they've been trying to confront on the levels that they're accustomed to confronting on.

06:08

They've taken the channels they know how to, they know they can take and they've gotten to dead ends and they don't know what to do and they're perplexed and it's a confusing situation.

06:18

And there is some, depending on the person and what situation they're in there, there is some level of compassion for that.

06:24

And we need encouragement. We need encouragement to, you know, it's hard to take a stand when you're alone.

06:31

And so that's what I encourage you to do if you know a professor like that or someone in an institution that is, they wanna whistleblow, but they're just, how do

06:38

I feed my family? Will I get death threats? So these are real questions, guys. These are real questions. So all that to say, let's get into it a little bit here.

06:46

We are gonna start with, let's start with Professor Little and what he said since that's pretty straightforward.

06:58

I think that's the most straightforward. So I'm gonna show you this article from the Gospel Coalition here. You can see that.

07:05

And the article is called Francis Schaeffer Warned Us About 2020, published December 9th by Elliot Clark.

07:12

Now, if you scroll down, Elliot Clark is a MDiv graduate from the

07:18

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Looks like he's a church planner in Central Asia and he's written on missions.

07:25

So this is a guy in the guild, okay? And he writes for the Gospel Coalition. That's another sign he's kind of in the guild.

07:31

He's on the outer ring of the guild. He's not at the institution Dr. Little works for, but he's connected.

07:38

So I'm not gonna read the whole thing. You can read it if you want. Here's the relevant part. I'm gonna scroll down.

07:44

And this is what he says. He learns from Francis Schaeffer here. Christians must realize there is a difference between being a co -belligerent and an ally.

07:53

And he says, as Francis Schaeffer writes, if there is social injustice, say there is social injustice.

08:00

If we need order, say we need order. In our day, this point still applies. The church must retain the ability to articulate kingdom values.

08:09

That, for example, black lives matter, all caps. All caps, black lives matter, right?

08:14

Well, not all caps, but the first letters are capitalized. And still confront the values, judgments, and actions of an earthly kingdom, such as troubling aspects of the

08:23

BLM agenda and organization. So this is the kind of weaseling that we've been fed, force -fed, for a few years now.

08:33

We gotta go along with the social justice movement, but then when they start talking about transgenderism, well, we kinda gotta understand it, but we can't go along with it.

08:44

But we can go along with them on these other things, right? As if the pagans somehow, operating under pagan assumptions, somehow is going to lead you to this great wisdom in these certain areas.

09:02

And I say that on purpose, because Black Lives Matter is thoroughly Marxist to its core.

09:08

Those who started it are very honest about this, that they are trained Marxists. And if you read their statement of beliefs, it's very, very obvious to anyone who knows anything about Marxism that that's exactly what they are.

09:23

So this isn't in the same category as a mathematician who's not a

09:28

Christian and discovers some great scientific discovery or something in the natural realm that seems to work that relies on laws fundamental to reality, right?

09:40

This isn't discovering something that exists in the natural world. This is the imaginary world of Marxists and the utopia they want to create.

09:48

It's false metaphysics, false epistemology, false ethical values. And then saying, well, the church can go to them and learn some things from them.

09:56

We can be co -belligerents with them. That's the argument that we've been force -fed. So they use

10:04

Francis Schaeffer to do this. If you pull out Francis Schaeffer, I mean, he's respected. He's a Christian apologist and he's also dead.

10:11

That's another key point, he's dead. He can't come and defend himself. He can't say, wait, hold on,

10:17

I don't agree with this because you can use whatever he says and apply it in the way you want. Well, Dr.

10:23

Little happens to be, and I don't know his connection exactly. He's somehow associated though with the

10:29

Francis Schaeffer archive at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has some kind of an association there.

10:38

And so he knows Schaeffer very well. And so he takes issue with this.

10:43

And this is a bold move, guys. This is, I know it seems, baby steps though, okay? Baby steps. If you're in the guild, it's hard, when you're outside the guild, it's hard to see from within.

10:53

But when you're inside the guild, sometimes the pressure it puts on you. So anyway, he writes, a co -belligerent is a person who may not have any sufficient basis for taking the right position, but takes the right position on a single issue.

11:06

And he's quoting Francis Schaeffer there, and he continues. Under the concept of the co -belligerent, Schaeffer was willing to work with Roman Catholics as co -belligerents in defending the unborn because both agreed that abortion is wrong.

11:16

And it was only on that single issue. Both agreed on the unjust practice of abortion and worked to remove the scandal from human society.

11:23

As such, it was a single issue with limited scope and focus. That is to say, it did not entail other social ills. Here's where Black Lives Matter fails

11:30

Schaeffer's definition of a co -belligerent. An investigation into Black Lives Matter reveals the absence of a well -defined single issue.

11:37

Instead, it uses the broad term social justice under which it catalogs a host of social issues. And he's right on.

11:43

It's exactly right here. And this is a direct response to the Gospel Coalition article.

11:48

Black Lives Matter is not about a single issue. Black Lives Matter is an umbrella term that's used to promote a revolutionary agenda to overturn structures, hierarchies, systems, et cetera, institutions, wherever they can accuse that institution of being against supposedly black lives.

12:10

And all it takes is some disparity. Sometimes you don't even need that. Just the accusation alone is sufficient. That's not an issue.

12:16

That's an ideology, which is why I've said that you cannot separate the social justice, critical race theory,

12:23

Black Lives Matter, et cetera, from the worldview that gives rise to them.

12:29

You're talking about a fundamentally different religion here. You're not talking about just, hey, well, we all agree that we need traffic lights and we're gonna come together.

12:39

Even though you're a Buddhist, I'm a Christian, that person's a Muslim, but we all agree we need traffic lights.

12:44

That's an issue we can agree on. It's not in the same category. It's not in the same category, to help those trying to understand this, as a scientist who's not a

12:54

Christian, who uses scientific principles fundamental to the natural realm, mathematical principles to discover something or prove something.

13:01

He's relying on the world God has made. He's discovering things in the world God has made. He is operating based on tools that are fundamental to reality in that sense.

13:10

The tools of critical race theory, the assumptions of Black Lives Matter, these are not fundamental to reality things.

13:17

These are imaginations, fake things, false things, lies in the minds of people that are then used to overlay systems, people, structures, symbols, and to tarnish them with the negative baggage that they ascribe to those objects by which to problematize, destroy, and then erect their own revolutionary style alternatives.

13:44

So that's what you're dealing with. For instance, the idea that systemic racism is embedded in every structure, as Al Mohler says, it's in every

13:54

American structure, every American structure. Al Mohler said that just last year. That is a critical race theory assumption.

14:02

You didn't go out and do scientific data and prove that. There wasn't like a law that you were using or a series of laws to collect the data, to try to analyze the data, et cetera.

14:12

No, that's an assumption. That's a religious assumption about reality. That is much different than a mathematical formula.

14:21

So that's what we're getting at. And that's what Little's point is to say, hey, look, wait a minute. Schaefer's talking about an issue here.

14:28

You're talking about buying into a philosophy. Now, if Christians wanna put their own spin on Black Lives Matter and say, well, we believe

14:36

Black Lives Matter because we believe that life matters to God. Well, now you're in all lives matter territory and they're gonna reject you.

14:44

So if you're not being rejected by them, you're probably doing it wrong. You're trying to give the impression that you're with them, that you agree with all these disparities, must mean systemic injustice.

14:53

All these, that we can ascribe motives to police officers, even when they haven't given us any evidence that we're not gonna stand against that guilty until proven innocent type logic.

15:05

We're not gonna stand against that. I mean, that's the kind of impression Christians are trying to give. And this professor, philosophy professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary sees it.

15:14

He calls it out and he follows it up with another blog. And in this blog, and this is interesting guys.

15:21

He says, remarkably, ESA, that's Evangelicals for Social Action. That's Ron Sider's group.

15:27

If you read my book, Social Justice Goes to Church, you'll know a little bit about ESA.

15:34

I talk about a little bit in there. But he says, remarkably, ESA is saying that unjust social structures, and in particular, the maldistribution of wealth are all real causes of the evil in the world.

15:45

And does ESA really believe that changing economic structures would solve the problem of lack of prayer?

15:51

Here, the gospel has been reduced to a matter, to a program for transforming social structures.

15:57

This is the Marxist line. It does not mean that those who take this position are communists, but it does mean they have made a complete confusion of the kingdom of God with the basic socialistic concepts.

16:08

So he's quoting, this is a Schaeffer quote. Bruce Little is quoting Francis Schaeffer and saying, hey, this is his point guys.

16:14

He's saying, hey, gospel coalition author who graduated from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, you're wrong on Francis Schaeffer.

16:23

And let me give you two reasons. Number one, you totally messed up his idea of cobelligerency.

16:28

Number two, you also failed to recognize that Schaeffer had an organization before him that was similar to Black Lives Matter.

16:36

It was actually a Christianized version. It was called the Evangelicals for Social Action. And here's what Schaeffer said about it. And so he quotes

16:41

Schaeffer. And so this is, if you wanna know what Schaeffer would have thought about Black Lives Matter, then look at what he said about Evangelicals for Social Action.

16:49

Said they're Marxists, they're confusing the kingdom of God with the basic socialistic concepts. He says,

16:55

Bruce Little says, the truth is that the co -founders of BLM publicly admit that they are trained in Marxism and want to transform social structures.

17:02

Furthermore, the language of ESA, Evangelicals for Social Action, in his publication mirrors that of BLM as well as the verbiage of those championing the social justice warrior crusade and the lie of systemic racism.

17:13

Schaeffer goes on to say, the socialist mentality as promoted by Evangelicals for Social Action and others and endorsed by much of the evangelical world is based on a double error.

17:22

First and foremost, it is wrong, theologically, fundamentally, distorting the meaning of the gospel, but it is equally wrong in its naive assessment of the redistribution of wealth and its consequences.

17:38

Francis Schaeffer on Evangelicals for Social Action might as well be on Christianized, Christianized Black Lives Matter.

17:46

This is a step, guys. You may think it's a little step, but hey, this is a professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary going after the gospel coalition.

17:53

I'll put the links in the info section if I remember to do it. So you can check this out. This is the kind of person that needs our support and encouragement.

18:01

Now, the second issue I wanted to talk about, let's go to this

18:07

Capstone Report article with, cites Russell Fuller. I knew about this stuff a year ago, but Russell Fuller had not publicly disclosed it yet and now he has, and I'm glad he has.

18:17

So we will start with the breaking news from Capstone Report. This is,

18:22

I think, last week, so it's not breaking anymore, but former professor Al Mohler is a double agent.

18:29

And it says the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary leadership was aware of the problematic dissertation.

18:35

This is the flagship seminary for the Southern Baptist Convention where Al Mohler presides. And what he's saying is that the leadership was aware of this problematic dissertation that they put a stamp of approval on and allowed to pass muster.

18:52

Now, what was that dissertation? Well, this is where we can get into the weeds and I'm gonna try to explain this as best

19:00

I can, which will require us to leave this article for a moment and go to the

19:08

Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention. Now, this is the page for the

19:15

Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. They're supposed to be the more prophetic voice, right? They're supposed to be giving us instruction on ethics and religious liberty, et cetera.

19:24

And here's one of the articles. Well, actually, it's a product that they're giving for free called

19:31

Teaching Your Children About Gender. It was published on December 10th, 2020. That's December 10th, that's as recent as last month, less than a month ago.

19:39

And you can download the ebook, so I did. And if you look in the ebook and you search for Collins, you're gonna see eight hits and you're gonna see quotes from a gentleman named

19:50

Nate Collins. He's the one that wrote the dissertation in question. Now, why do I bring up the

19:55

ERLC? Well, because it was just found out, it was just someone figured it out when this resource went out that Nate Collins was the one who was cited.

20:09

And here's one of the quotes from Nate Collins cited in that document. Many gay people sense a double standard when

20:15

Christian leaders routinely and loudly denounce same -gender sex while quietly ignoring morally lax attitudes towards other areas of sexual ethics.

20:24

In an era when pornography and serial monogamy are both common occurrences, some gay people feel hurt, misunderstood, and judged when

20:30

Christian leaders harp instead on the evils of the gay agenda. So saying, hey, hold on, don't harp on this.

20:35

The issue that's confronting us currently, the issue that's being jammed down our throats, hey, don't harp on that one, harp on these other issues, which are also important.

20:45

But that's one of the quotes. And the issue that is being taken with it is that Nate Collins is the one who organized or helped organize the

20:54

Revoice Conference. And his dissertation even argues that Virgin was a gender identity.

21:03

Yes, Virgin was a gender identity. And so I'm assuming that this resource that the

21:10

ERLC keeps quoting from, this Nate Collins resource, is his dissertation just published.

21:18

So where does this get back to Al Mohler? Well, I'm glad you asked. We're gonna go back to this article and I'm gonna keep reading.

21:25

So now you know who Nate Collins is. I should probably just briefly say, if you don't know, this is where the

21:30

PCA is actually involved. The Revoice Conference was all about soft -pedaling sexual deviancies.

21:37

You can find weird things about how like queer identity will enrich your faith. And it's strange stuff, guys.

21:45

All you have to do is go look it up. Go look up Revoice, watch some of their videos. On YouTube, you can go to Nate Collins' Twitter, just look at what he's saying.

21:53

I don't even have to dig that far, you'll see. This guy is not a good guy as far as pushing the normalization of sexual deviancies in Christian circles.

22:03

Well, he did so. The Revoice Conference was held at a Presbyterian Church of America church,

22:09

PCA church. And it has been causing much division in the Presbyterian Church of America, not primarily the

22:16

Southern Baptist Convention. But Nate Collins, like I said, he came from the Southern Baptist Convention. He went to Southern Seminary.

22:21

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, he did some adjunct teaching or he was a graduate assistant, something. He taught there and he published his dissertation there.

22:31

And so this is a guy that is dangerous. He's behind some of this soft pedaling stuff. Here's the bombshell, guys.

22:39

And I've known about this for over a year, actually. I've known about this for a while. Here's the bombshell. And it's finally publicly out there.

22:46

Russell Fuller, former professor, worked at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary 20 years.

22:52

And I quote, Nate Collins was vocal about his views on gender and homosexuality when he was a student and later an adjunct faculty member at Southern Seminary.

23:03

The administration at Southern Seminary knew of Collins' destructive views, but still allowed him to teach. Tom Schreiner was a member of the administration as an associate dean of the

23:14

School of Theology when Collins was writing his problematic dissertation at Southern under Tom.

23:23

Dr. Fuller says the truth is that Southern Seminary went soft on homosexuality years before Collins, when

23:31

Moeller himself accepted the secular idea of sexual orientation. In fact, Moeller repented that he rejected the secular teaching of sexual orientation, the lynchpin doctrine of the

23:40

LGBTQ community. Moeller's statement of repentance, of course, suggests that he was in sin for not accepting sexual orientation.

23:47

That was in 2015, guys. This further suggests that Christians are in sin who do not accept sexual orientation, a blasphemous notion.

23:57

And he's absolutely right. Moeller confessed that and said, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't believe in that.

24:03

You know, and it's a Freudian concept. This is not a Christian idea. It says, when

24:11

Moeller was pressed on this by Brian Fisher, the host of Focal Point for American Family Radio, who asked if this means that people are born gay,

24:19

Moeller did not answer. He could not answer. Moeller cannot answer because he believes, like the LGBTQ community, that sexual orientation transcends the will and is part of one's nature.

24:29

If Moeller does not believe that homosexuals are born gay, then will they inevitably become gay since sexual orientation is part of their nature?

24:38

Do some have a sinful orientation nature to homosexuality that others do not have? Is this orientation or nature from birth or do people develop it later?

24:47

Where does the Bible talk about this sexual orientation specifically? He goes on, he says, this is all

24:54

Russell Fuller, this is not me, this is Russell Fuller saying this stuff. Moeller cannot answer these questions for the same reason that Matt Hall cannot answer questions about his teachings of critical race theory.

25:03

By answering these questions, they will expose their dangerous beliefs. Don't expect answers, don't even expect questions.

25:09

The trustees of Southern Seminary appointed by the SBC will not ask any questions. And Moeller and Hall will certainly not answer any questions, at least not honestly.

25:18

He says the scriptures and sexual orientation slash critical race theory are incompatible and mutually exclusive.

25:25

Moeller and Matt Hall are captive to philosophy and vain deception according to the traditions of men, according to the elementary principles of the world rather than according to Christ.

25:33

This explains why Moeller promoted Sam Albury in his book, Is God Anti -Gay?

25:39

At Moeller's Together for the Gospel Conference. This also explains why Southern Seminary still promotes Sam Albury in a video on Southern Seminary's website and interview with Herschel York, Dean of the

25:48

School of Theology. The bottom line, he says, Moeller is and has always been a double agent,

25:53

Russell Fuller. That is quite, oh, quite startling.

26:03

I mean, for those who've been paying attention to this, maybe not so much, but this is not something that Russell Fuller got into when we did our interviews.

26:11

We didn't talk about this. I'm gonna say this. I mean, if he didn't put it in the interview, but this was something

26:17

Russell Fuller told me that I'm sure at this point I'm free to share, that Nate Collins would introduce himself on Southern Seminary campus and describe himself as a gay

26:29

Christian to those who were on campus. And it was well -known by everyone who knew him that he was a gay

26:34

Christian and he thought of himself that way. Said, I'm a gay Christian. Just introduce himself like that, which to me sounded kind of awkward, but this is the testimony of Russell Fuller.

26:45

Russell Fuller, I think there's some other things that he said about this that I'm not sure. The details are a little foggy in my mind, so I don't wanna get too into those right now.

26:57

But what he revealed in this article is that Southern Seminary is, on some level, has been complicit with this as well.

27:06

Nate Collins is not, there is a sense of at least passively allowing

27:14

Nate Collins to be there, to pass his dissertation there, to,

27:25

I believe, teach there. I think he was an adjunct for a little bit, if I'm not mistaken, or a graduate assistant, something of that nature.

27:31

And then he goes out from there and he helps really pollute the

27:38

PCA. So this is where both denominations are affected by this. But he's still having influence in the

27:44

SBC, as you can see, because the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention is drawing on his work for their document on how to teach your kids about this stuff.

27:59

Sad stuff, guys, sad stuff. But I'm encouraged by Dr. Little. And let's go to the last thing here that I wanna talk about, and that is a thread that I did.

28:09

So this is where we need to have, I think, what I would call a sensor proportion.

28:18

It's something that I think, it's hard, it's learned over time when to have grace for someone, when to be patient with someone, when to recognize that they are compromising.

28:35

And I'm not one of those third -degree separation types of people, I'm not an associationalist.

28:43

I do believe in biblical separation, for sure. But I don't go to those, I don't know if you've run across anyone.

28:50

The woke people are the worst at this. But, well, you know someone, or you're friends with someone who's friends with someone who's friends with someone who's friends with someone, and that person's problematic, therefore you're problematic, right?

29:00

And this is, a lot of people will say that's what fundamentalists did, right? Well, if it is, that's exactly what the social justice crowd has borrowed from their fundamentalist parents and grandparents.

29:10

So, I'm not, just to preface, I'm not going to bring you this information to,

29:17

I'm not trying to take a snipe at Keith and Christine Getty here. I'm not trying to be unfair to them, I'm not trying to say, you gotta stop listening to their music.

29:25

Some of you might make that decision, and that's fine. If you make that decision, I have no problem with that, I just wouldn't impose it on other people.

29:34

Here's the issue, and I'm gonna add to my thread a little bit, but here's the question

29:40

I ask. Keith and Christine Getty are platforming Isaac Adams, Blair Lynn, Trulia Newbell, Shy Lynn, Steve Nichols, and Danny Akin at their

29:48

SYNC conference, and here's what I'll add to that. I've seen, for the past few years, at their other conferences, they've had a number of other woke individuals as well at these conferences.

30:01

Jackie Hill Perry's been there, I'm not even sure who all, but I've noticed there's been, I think, Ed Stetzer, if I'm not mistaken, was at one of their

30:07

SYNC conferences. They've had some people that are definitely on the wrong side of the social justice debate, some of whom

30:14

I question whether they're even Orthodox Christians, but they will platform them, and at the very least, people who have been compromised in some way, who, honestly,

30:27

I'm not sure what they have to do with singing, some of them, at least, not sure, but it seems to me that more and more, and they have some good people, too, by the way, don't get me wrong, there's some good voices coming to some of these things, and people that know music and know theology music and stuff that are giving some teachings, and so I'm not saying that that's all, some people,

30:53

I think, said, or took it, that I was saying that's all there was. It's not all there is, no, but these people are platformed, and others that I didn't mention.

31:00

I just wanted to give this as kind of a sample. So the question I had is, I appreciate some of their music, but I have to ask, what would prevent them from inviting

31:07

Jim Wallace? What's the standard? And that's a serious question. Why not have Jim Wallace come talk? I mean, if it's not about people who know music well, because there's clearly some people in there that don't, that I don't really know why they'd be going other than perhaps they're popular in other realms, and I don't know.

31:29

So someone who doesn't know music well, someone who doesn't even know music or theology well, as some of these people are, and you're gonna invite them, why not have a

31:39

Jim Wallace come? Why not have a Ron Sider come? Why not have, I don't know, I don't know,

31:45

Richard Malcom or, these original social justice warriors from the 70s, and the reason that they wouldn't have a

31:50

Jim Wallace come is because he's too far left. He's too far, he's politically left.

31:56

He was Obama's advisor. He's, I mean, they may not even know who he is, but I don't think they'd have him come because he's too far out there.

32:03

I mean, he even now believes in gay marriage, I think, and stuff like that. But what level of compromise is acceptable?

32:09

That's the question. That's the root of this. What's the standard they're using? And what

32:14

I'm getting at, and I'm not accusing them of this at this point, I'm just asking, is this just about like a popularity thing?

32:21

Is this just about getting people in who will attract people for your conference? That's what it appears to possibly be just by reducing down the other options.

32:36

But I don't know, so I'm asking. And then I gave examples. I said to illustrate, here's

32:41

Isaac Adams, and here's some of the quotes from him. These are just a sample.

32:48

June 2nd, 2020, I appreciate the letters dropping in my inbox from a few large companies I have patronized saying they are in support of Black Lives Matter, Black Lives, and donating money to black organizations that will back critical justice reform.

32:59

Oh, education and economic rights, among other things. Critical justice reform. Isaac Adams, August 8th, 2018.

33:08

On Monday, my friends, Darvis Williams and Curtis Woods will release The Gospel in Color, a theology of racial reconciliation for families.

33:14

This is chock full of CRT, guys. I have it, I have it. Maybe I'll go over it someday. Isaac Adams, from 2017.

33:23

Young black males were 21 times more likely to be killed by police than their white counterparts between 2010, 2012, according to federal statistics.

33:30

From, dun -da -da -da, stamped from the beginning by Ibram, I hope

33:35

I'm pronouncing that right, Ibram X. Kendi. He's reading

33:41

Kendi. That's critical race theory, guys. Here's Blair Lynn. Blair Lynn, diversity helps to expose our blind spots.

33:48

Some Christians are concerned about a social gospel infiltrating our churches and yet blind to the patriotism. She doesn't even say nationalism.

33:55

The patriotism, racism, and white supremacy taught alongside the gospel for hundreds of years in our country. Hmm, patriotism, that's so bad.

34:04

Jesus was a refugee, Matthew 2. You have someone coming and speaking at your conference who

34:10

I'm pretty sure, maybe she's a poet or something. I don't think she sings, but you have someone coming and speaking at your conference on singing, specifically, who can't even figure out that Jesus wasn't a refugee.

34:25

Thinks that Matthew 2 should be interpreted that Jesus was a refugee. Oh, okay, all right. I appreciate the letters dropping in my inbox from a few large companies

34:33

I patronize saying, oh wait, hold on. Isn't this the same thing I just read? I think it is.

34:38

Maybe I double posted something here. I did. Ha ha, I already read that to you. That was, I attributed that to Isaac Adams and it's

34:47

Blair Lynn. I just caught that. I didn't realize that I had accidentally did that. Okay, so you already heard that quote. All right, here's

34:54

Trillia Newbell. Thanks for the encouragement, all. I'm doing well. But the next time your brother or sister expresses sorrow over their experiences, believe them and get to work with them.

35:05

Okay, I'm done for now. And I think I saw a variation of racism not being an opinion from Bernice King. She's talking about minorities who experience racism and that they have the right to be believed.

35:20

Really? So just because someone has an experience means you must believe them and get to work with them?

35:26

Hmm. One day there will be a post -Trump era and I just wonder if we'll look back at our feeds and broken relationships and divided churches and inconsistent witness and wonder if it was worth it.

35:38

We will need to be ready to repent and forgive all of us. It's interesting.

35:48

Here's another one. Grateful for all the articles and sermons being shared regarding social justice and the gospel.

35:54

Hoping to list resources soon, but you can find many at the ERLC. Russell Moore, Dabidi, and Abuele.

36:00

The Gospel Coalition, Jamar Tisby, and Letitia Morrison and more. Yeah, the who's who of bad theology and bad history right there.

36:10

Here we have Shailen. Fighting against racial injustice is not a liberal issue or a democratic issue.

36:16

It's a gospel issue. Ephesians 2 .16. He can't even get Ephesians 2 right and you want him to come speak on singing?

36:25

This is beautiful. Bubba Wallace, a black NASCAR driver found a noose in his garage stall yesterday.

36:31

His fellow white drivers came out to support him today. Christians have something infinitely greater than racing that unites us.

36:37

May we lead the way in displaying true unity. Scribing lies, supporting lies, and that's a good thing.

36:48

Through my tears, I wrote down some thoughts about how I'm processing George Floyd. And you can go to Gospel Coalition, read

36:54

George Floyd and me. I think I did something on it. A .D. Robles did something on it. Not good. Stephen Nichols.

37:01

Stephen Nichols works with Reformation Bible College for Ligonier. I've gone through some of his writings in Jesus Made in America.

37:09

And here's some things he said. He praises Jim Wallace in his 2008 book,

37:14

Jesus Made in America. And he says, quote, Jim Wallace made a fairly good case that there are issues on the right that would be difficult to connect to Jesus.

37:21

He said that Wallace made a profound observation concerning conservatives who attribute poverty to immorality by calling them, quote, mean and, quote, stupid.

37:32

Yeah, okay. In warning about the negative impact of, quote, consumer culture and its dehumanizing and oppressive effects on both people and ecology,

37:41

Nichols lauded Wallace's, quote, community economics, which cut against Western capitalism and market economies.

37:49

Stephen Nichols. Now look, I don't know, Stephen Nichols, I don't know a whole lot about. I mean, he runs in some fairly what you'd consider to be orthodox circles, but I know those things aren't good.

37:59

So I'm just asking, if he likes Jim Wallace so much, why not just have Jim Wallace? Just invite Jim Wallace to come and speak, why not?

38:06

I didn't think Stephen Nichols had an album out or anything. I didn't think he was, you know, and I certainly didn't think

38:11

Danny Akin had one. And I posted the video of the audio of Danny Akin, basically saying that he supports critical race theory while saying he doesn't in contradicting himself and sounding interesting.

38:24

In a podcast, by the way, where his co -host, another professor at Southeastern was blaming

38:30

Trump and the Proud Boys for things. And that's shocking that Christians would ever be involved with voting for Donald Trump and this kind of thing.

38:38

So that's the Gettys. The question is why platform all of these people?

38:46

Are their conferences getting so big? Are they so successful now that, you know, they want them to be more successful and this is something

38:54

I've seen over and over. And here's the concern, guys, and I'm not calling them heretics or anything like that. What I'm saying is something that we should all be aware of.

39:02

We should all be aware of, guys, myself included, myself at the front of the line in this to be aware of.

39:08

The more popular that you can get, the more opportunity for compromise, and the more you think you can do it on your own strength.

39:15

I've felt that, I've felt that before. And it's a lie, it's wrong. Every good gift is from the

39:22

Father above and comes down from Him. We don't have anything that He has not given us.

39:29

We rely on Him. But you get to a point when you form a lot of relationships, really, and they're really business alliances, not just relationships.

39:39

You form business alliances with people and you have mutually beneficial relationships that you form that put a lot of money in your pocket, maybe give you some prestige.

39:54

In my opinion, right now is not the time to be building, really, ministries. I mean, I'm building some things, but it's the time to fight.

40:01

We're in a crossroads in every institution. And you have people that are on the other side of this.

40:11

They are on the other side of not just the political battle but the theological battle.

40:19

People who confound the gospel with social justice and think that they're related somehow. Like Shilin, unfortunately, as I read you that quote.

40:30

So I think it's a sad thing. I don't know them personally, so I don't know how they feel about this.

40:38

I have talked to people who know them personally, and I will tell you this, I have been asked to pray for them before this, months before this,

40:46

I've been asked. And I was told exactly what I just told you, that they have gotten more popular and their conferences have gotten more popular and to pray for them because they are putting themselves in positions that could be very potentially compromising and perhaps already are.

41:02

So nothing against them or their music personally. In fact, I'm all for them, but this has to end.

41:08

This, if you can only invite a few people to your conference, only invite a few people. But you can't be inviting people who can't even interpret scripture very well, who are compromised when it comes to their understanding of the gospel itself, and who are on the wrong side of biblical ethics in such a fundamental way that it would have to,

41:31

I mean, their concept of justice, if applied to the gospel would ruin the gospel. So why would you have someone like that?

41:38

And then why not have Jim Wallace then? Why not invite them all in? Why not have all the members of, have

41:43

Jeremiah Wright, have Warnock, invite Warnock to come to your SING conference, right? Why not?

41:49

Oh, he disagrees with us on abortion. Well, that's just one issue, right? Where's the line, where's the line? All right, so I hope that was helpful for some of you.

41:58

Once again, I said this last podcast, but thank you for all your support so much. We are raising money for the

42:03

NeNe's Deli project. I've been so shocked at the money that's come in for that. We do need probably a little under $5 ,000 more.

42:10

I'm gonna make it up though, if we don't get it. I mean, we're dead set on doing this documentary. We're excited. You can find links in the info section.

42:17

You can find a link to get these as well. Today's the last day to do that.

42:23

So you can get Social Justice Goes to Church, autographed copy and why social justice, why justice, social justice is not biblical justice by Scott David Allen for the price of one.

42:34

So it's $20 with shipping, $15 for the book, $5 for shipping, you get both. Today is the last day to take advantage of that.

42:40

Unless of course I still have a backlog. We'll see. I don't think I will. But I need to get rid of some unexpected books.

42:47

I have like 40 of them. I didn't realize I was getting. And so I need to get them, get them out of here. And I'm not really making much on this, if anything.

42:54

I just wanna get them into your hands. And so if you already have it, hey, think about, maybe you'd wanna give one away or give both away.

43:03

It's a good deal and it's not coming around again. So God bless you. And I hope that was helpful.