March 11, 2020 Show with Gary DeMar on “Eschatology & Its Relationship to Government” PLUS Eli Ayala on “The Dangers of Minimizing or Inflating the Role of Eschatology”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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have a view in Conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 11th day of March 2020 and I'm thrilled to

have back on the program one of my favorite guests to interview Gary DeMar.

He's gonna be on with us for the first hour.

Gary DeMar is the president of American vision author of

countless essays news articles and more than 35 book titles

and he's a featured guest on nearly every major news media outlet.

We are going to be discussing during the first hour eschatology and its relationship to government.

We're also going to be giving you the exciting news about an upcoming conference where Gary is speaking on Long Island, New York

Where I will also be in attendance looking forward to that.

God willing, of course.

And then the second hour we're going to be joined by Eli Ayala also known as Elias Ayala

a Christian apologist and team member at the historical Bible Society Which is a sponsor of iron sharpens

iron radio.

He's also founder of revealed apologetics and we're going to be addressing the dangers of minimizing or

inflating the role of eschatology.

But it's first of all my honor and privilege to welcome you back to our insurance on radio Gary

DeMar.

Good to be back.

Can you have interviewers?

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

Well, that was.

I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Well, if you could.

Tell us just a little bit about American vision.

You've been on this program many times, but there may be.

Some stragglers who have not yet heard of you who are perhaps turning tuning into this

show for the first time.

Tell us about American vision.

Well,

why

don't

you

tell

our

listeners

also

I know

it's.

Basically very much involved in what you were just talking about.

Tell our listeners about the upcoming conference coming up on Friday and Saturday March

20th and 21st at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram Long Island, New York.

I know that the first night at 7 p .m you're going to be speaking on God and government with a Q

&A following and then The second night Saturday night at 7 p .m.

As well, you're going to be discussing the Olivet discourse with a Q &A and following.

Why don't you give us a little bit more details on both of those sessions?

Oh great,

well, I'm glad I'm sticking around on Sunday.

Yeah the relationship

between

government

and

eschatology

which

go

that's

now and we

have

to remember

something.

This is

again, this is

1988.

They

came out in

1980 by the

raptures

in 1988

was

affecting

the

lives.

I'm gonna give our listeners the Email address where you could join us on the air with a question of your own.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Ch r is A -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, let's say

You disagree with your pastor?

Or even the official statement of faith of your church.

You don't want to identify yourself.

We can understand that perhaps you're even a pastor yourself.

You disagree with your fellow elders or your congregation in general or even the

denomination?

We would understand why you would want to remain anonymous but if it's not a personal and private

question, please give us at least your first name city and state and Country of residence and keep in mind Gary's on

only for the first hour of today's show so if you want a question for Gary, I would just

send it in as quickly as possible and in fact It's we have to get to our midway break about

Five minutes before the the top of the hour.

So just keep that in mind.

The issue of government is Not only something that

causes great division in the body of Christ but misunderstanding.

Fear you have people who see the

especially the penal codes of the Old Covenant involving the death penalty

for things even beyond murder and you have Christians who are frightened

about the notion of The Old Covenant

penal codes returning To the New Covenant which they would believe

would be not in according in accordance to the design of God and

they seem to have a more of a sharp contrast

between Old and New Covenant.

Than.

Many post -millennialists theonomists and Christian Reconstructions do so if you could tell our

listeners About why.

Perhaps they have misplaced fears.

I'm not I'm not sure that that category.

I'm

just

trying

to

get

Christians

involved

bottom

-up

and

not

from

the

top

down

from

the

state.

Now it's interesting that you have repeated something.

That is very true.

That we should not be looking at the governments of men

as our Savior and Ironically, I think that is The very thing

That many who are outside of your camp of theology and eschatology accuse you of believing.

Yeah, right, and it's ironic that you know, you happen to be theologically reformed and

very often those who are opposed to your theology and eschatology.

Well, even though they might not use the words Arminian and Pelagian, but they're basically saying that

you believe that the church according to our own human effort

Is going to bring about this great transformation in the world and so on seemingly

Putting the gospel in a backseat of importance, but I know that that's not where you're coming from at all.

No, no, that's that's why if you I booked out

in government, you know, government shall be on his shoulders.

God

is

the

governor

of.

He

defines

government

individuals

only

government.

Well,

it seems

that.

Secular society and even much of what is professedly The

church.

I'm not saying that these would be Regenerate people that I'm going to describe but

there are many voices out there who are trying to destroy the

very notion of The biblical family that you were just mentioning.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, there's no doubt about it.

They want to their family free for

everything but the United Nations reaping and redefining the

family.

Making it almost impossible for families to you know to educate their children.

I mean, I went to college and I graduated from college.

I had very very little debt.

And today you've got you've got young people who have 40 50 60 70 thousand more than that

worth of debt.

Why is that?

It's because we turn to the state and said and the people said help us finance our

children's education.

And so the government was very happy to do that because the government knew that if they helped fund Something

for parents the end remember

the 1960s that Lyndon Johnson brought in.

Oh, it was just a great idea that we were going to help poor people.

Well in this war on on poverty ended up being the war on the poor and now you

got you have a Multi

-generational

dependency

if you

can't

change

just

we have a

Susan

Margaret

in Dauphin County,

Pennsylvania.

Who says are you?

Promoting Christian libertarianism.

I am NOT talking about the kind of libertarianism that stands for the so -called freedoms of

Citizens to commit atrocities like the murder of Abortion, but I am talking about a

very limited government where only the laws of God apply.

And we are not to become as you were saying slaves to a government.

That is human -made.

There are libertines.

You know somebody who.

And the idea of liberty is the

idea of

limited that I don't agree with.

By the state that

they were

recognized

by the state

for

marriage.

And

we

have.

Let's

see

John

and

Bangor,

Maine.

Who wants to know does the Bible have anything to say?

About strict border control in our day and age.

Right.

And in fact the opposite as you may know is regurgitated frequently by Secularists

claiming to know the Bible.

Yeah.

The

first

command is to

adjourner in

the land.

We're now

hearing

him

today,

by the way

folks.

Book that

you might

find

interesting

that.

Addresses some of these issues.

Is a book by David Dykstra who's a friend of mine?

Yearning to breathe free thoughts on immigration Islam and freedom.

Published by solid ground Christian books and their website is solid dash ground Dash books

calm and you can look up yearning to breathe free.

Thoughts on immigration in Islam and freedom by David Dykstra.

We're gonna be going to our first break right now.

If you have a question for Gary of your own.

And you want to submit that before he departs from the show since we have a second guest today for the second hour.

Please send that question and as quickly as possible to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Gary DeMar.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries in the dividing line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues Some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

Reform Baptist Church.

Now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York I've had the

privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions.

Have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

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And that's the church where I will be along with my former co -host Buzz Taylor

Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York on Friday Saturday and

Sunday March 20th 21st and 22nd.

The 20th and 21st specifically are the dates of the God the government in the last days.

Conference.

Featuring our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Gary DeMar and then Gary will be preaching

a Sunday morning at Hope Reform Baptist Church, and I hope to see you there.

You can find out more details on the conference at reformed rookie net.

Reformed rookie R -o -o -k -i -e .net also calm

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As James White said in the ad you can call six three one six nine six five seven eleven.

For more details about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

Six three one six nine six five seven eleven.

We are now back with our guest today Gary DeMar president of American vision and we are

talking about specifically today the government and its relationship with

eschatology and We do have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Who wants to know should the church? be viewing the government of the Old

Testament as Something that we should desire to imitate merely because

it was something that came from the very mind of God it was God breathed and a blueprint

created by God himself and therefore this would just be a very wise thing to do or Is

it a command in your opinion for the church to re -establish Old Covenant

penal systems?

Well,

I

breathe down

teaching

good.

I'll

give you

a

couple

of

really

good

examples

regarding

kidnapping.

You're

not a man

dealing.

Majority of what would pay

back or you

take that

aspect of the law and apply it today.

So much would have changed for the better in our society.

It's in measures.

We have

that

in our

seduction.

Oh really

there

because

we no

longer

have

a stand at

the law

in our society today.

Word God's law and if you

could especially for those of our listeners who are tuning in late and didn't hear anything.

You said in the first half hour if you could perhaps in a bit more detail explain

the relationship between government and eschatology.

Well, I think

the one of the

reason because

Jesus is

coming back soon.

Our indications that Jesus must be coming back soon.

Everything that

Christians

are using today

to have

laws on

the book given up because

Christian out there.

It is not a new thing it wasn't invented

by

Thomas

Jeff and

that was

built and

not dealing with it.

And

the very

thing again that your.

Opponents would hurl at you is that you are trying to.

Destroy the concept of the separation of church and state.

Of course they are and because they want their own.

Prohibition

is it

can't get

involved

at the state's

will

the state's

then

implement

there.

Now you.

Will frequently hear?

Liberal politicians, especially.

Or perhaps even some that profess to be some brand of conservative.

But they will say things like and I'm thinking immediately Joe Biden.

Nancy Pelosi.

Where you will have people say?

Oh, I am a Roman Catholic.

I strongly Agree with my church that is that abortion is

wrong that we are not to participate in that as Faithful Catholics, but I would

never Want to impose those kind of regulations of my cherished

religion Upon the citizens of a nation where I am serving in government.

So that these are two different things now.

First of all, this is I think a charade.

Don't you think that they are?

Confusing what might be called an ecclesiocracy with a theocracy.

They are Treating things like abortion, which is infanticide as if it were a

denomination reaching Heights of authority where they are

imposing their own understanding of baptism or other things upon the citizens.

Yeah, there's there's slippery.

This was the argument that Mario Cuomo gay With the Notre Dame and he made this.

If you were to follow that same speech and just every time you saw

the word abortion put the word slavery in there.

It was the same argument.

Centuries, oh, you know, we we can't get involved in and

slavery because you that's just.

We have our own little enclave over here.

We're this is a sacred issue.

This is an ecclesiastical is not murder but so is

thou shalt not steal in the Bible as well.

Thou shalt not kidnap and.

So if

you start

taking it doesn't

matter

anymore

that label

what it is

more religious beliefs regarding slavery

now

and in closing.

Post -millennialists such as yourself do not view the

future return of Christ as Something that is going to be happening very

soon.

Maybe even centuries away.

Obviously, there's going to be a point in time when we are

Very near to the return of Christ.

So what should the Christians of the future be looking for around them?

That would be signaling to them.

Now we can say Jesus is coming very soon.

His return is imminent, etc.

I don't think there's any such.

I don't think there's any such thing in the Bible to have.

So the church would always be in some.

Realm of ignorance about that the church.

Should you

have a job do a job

do our job?

Amen, whatever that is.

Well, I want to make sure our listeners have your website.

It's American vision org.

American vision org.

Also don't forget about the conference on Friday and Saturday March 20th and 21st and

also Gary's preaching on the Lord's Day on Sunday the 22nd of March at

Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

And God willing I will be there.

I hope to see you there for more details.

Go to reformed rookie net.

Reformed rookie are okay.

I e .net.

You can also call area code 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7 11 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7

11.

Gary It's always a joy to have you on and I'm looking forward to seeing you God willing from the 20th through the 22nd

of March.

I'm looking forward to it as well.

Great and folks, please don't go away because Elias Ayala is our second guest today and

Elias is going to be Continuing the theme to a degree.

He's going to be addressing more specifically The theme the dangers of

minimizing or inflating the role of eschatology if you have a question for Eli Ayala

Who is a Christian apologist and team member at Historical Bible Society and also founder of revealed

apologetics.

Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

This is our longer than normal break please be patient with us because we have to accommodate Grace Life Radio

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Introduced to you our second guest today.

We just have a couple of announcements to make the one first of all that we've been already mentioning.

We hope that you will attend this conference if at all possible if you are able to get

there by train plane automobile Parachute.

However, you're able to get there.

The God the government and the last day's conference is being held Friday and Saturday March

20th and 21st at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York featuring our

Guest speaker Gary DeMar president of American vision and author of last day's madness.

He was our guest for the first hour of today's program.

He's also going to be preaching.

I understand.

This is news to me good news to me Sunday morning on March 22nd at Hope

Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

The sessions include the Friday session March 20th at 7 p .m

God and government with a Q &A following.

There's going to be a prayer breakfast Saturday morning on March 21st.

And then in the evening At 7 p .m. The Gary's message will be on the

Olivet discourse with a Q &A following.

And as I said on Sunday morning, Gary will be preaching god -willing.

At the Sunday morning services at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York for more details.

You can go to reformed rookie calm reformed R -o -o -k -i -e .com

also net.

And you can also call Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York at six three one six nine six five seven eleven

Six three one six nine six five seven one one and I will be there god -willing and I hope to see you

there, too.

And my friend and former co -host of iron sharpens iron radio buzz Taylor Will be there with

me as well.

God willing.

Now last but not least folks if you love this show You do not want it to disappear from the airwaves.

Please help us financially.

We are an urgent need of your help.

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Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one You're

living in rebellion against God, please rectify that situation.

If you need help finding a church wherever you live in the world, I can help you find a church.

I do have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet.

And I have helped quite a number of people find churches wherever they live.

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Where their family friends and loved ones can visit who don't currently have? solid

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we believe here to send me an email to Chris Arnson a gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line

we now Introduce to you a person who I have grown very fond of.

I have been blown away hearing him give public presentations

a Recent Bible conference that hope reformed at this church actually in Coral Moon Island, New York.

I sat in utter amazement glued to his every word as he very eloquently

and Humorously and Expertise Lee if that's

even a word Presented one of the five points of

Calvinism Which the the conference was focused

on when I was there.

Eli Ayala also known as Elias Ayala.

He is Christian apologist and team member at the Historical Bible Society and founder of revealed apologetics.

He is going to be discussing for the second hour today the dangers of minimizing or inflating

the role of eschatology and It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens.

I and radio Eli Ayala.

It's a pleasure to be on.

Thank you so much.

And why don't you tell our listeners?

About the Historical Bible Society.

First and foremost.

Yeah,

he does an

absolutely

phenomenal

job.

I've seen many of his presentations and they've never been identical.

Of course, the facts don't change.

But but he always puts a little different spin on What he highlights or

focuses upon when he does these presentations?

It's not given in a Rehearsed robotic fashion in any way shape or form and it's

what's always amazing to me is to see how long people Linger after

his presentation is over because they just want to find out more about They have the transmission of scripture.

They want to find out more about the Historical Bible Society and there's usually a long line of people waiting to Speak to Dan after he

is has officially concluded his presentation.

And

that

website

is historical Bible Society org.

Historical Bible Society org.

Now tell us about revealed apologetics.

Yeah,

well,

I'm

and

the

website

is

revealed.

Apologetics

calm.

We are working.

And if

you

could in a nutshell give our listeners a summary definition of presuppositional ism.

Yeah, and when you

say starting

with

Revelation,

you're

just

talking

about

the

revealed

inspired

Word of God.

You're not speaking specifically of the book of Revelation.

That is correct.

Yes,

and we're

all

looking

forward with

bated breath

to the.

Publication that Gary DeMar is working on.

He's probably raced right back to his study to continue working on a new compilation of the

works of dr Bonson who you just mentioned so we're looking forward to

Getting that book and getting Gary back on to discuss the life and legacy of Greg Bonson.

Who.

And we are discussing the theme today for the second hour eschatology.

What.

I've actually have to go forward here a little bit.

I was just about to repeat Gary DeMar's topic the

dangers of minimizing or inflating the role of eschatology if you could.

First of all begin with a definition of eschatology.

Eschatology,

of

course,

it's a

ballroom

brawl.

You're

speaking about

Lutherans

and

Presbyterians.

Well the I Believe and of course there may be those out there

who disagree with me.

I don't know how you could actually disagree with me on this if you really have eyes and ears and

Have conversations with people but there are people out there within

the body of Christ who fall under the category of One of the following

dangers they either minimize the role of eschatology By saying

it really has no importance at all.

These are just things that are fascinating to speculate about These are things that

Might produce robust and interesting conversations

but in the long run Our view of the last things is really

not very important at all.

And then of course on the other end of the spectrum Typically manifests itself

in a more ugly fashion where you have professing

Christians Sometimes even completely alienating or dismissing

Their brothers and sisters in Christ as being lost in a worst -case scenario

They're lost their heretics.

They are not Christians at all if they disagree with one's understanding of

Eschatology, so those are two obvious dangers that we should avoid.

Let's start with why is it dangerous to minimize the role of eschatology and the

world view and thought process in life of a Christian.

Yeah,

and

I'm

sure

you

would

agree

that.

Even those and of course everybody thinks their own eschatology if they Indeed

have a firm and fixed and convinced position Of eschatology they

think they're right, of course.

But even if we believe we are biblically accurate and our eschatology Must

we not be very careful not to be overly harsh and Judgmental

and dismissive of our brethren who disagree.

I know people who Would share my personal eschatology.

Amillennialism.

I consider myself an optimistic amillennialism amillennialist I should say and

Unlike many amillennialists I'm also at least at this point in my My journey, I am a

partial preterist, but I know amillennialists who totally dismiss

Postmillennialists and historic premillennialists and dispensationalists just as

Unlearned off -the -wall just dead wrong and they will use the harshest

of criticism to dismiss them and I think that that's dangerous.

I think that that's not in the spirit of Christian Brotherhood because for centuries

even though The church has always viewed the visible physical

return of Christ in the in the future and the resurrection of the dead as key

elements of Christian eschatology.

There has been throughout history as you know much room for disagreement on secondary and

tertiary matters.

I think

it's

very

important

to make a

distinction

between

essential

doctrine and

non

-essential.

Even John

Calvin

himself avoided

it.

I'm gonna read a question for you from an anonymous listener.

And then we're going to go to a break our final break of the show and you can answer the question when we return.

This anonymous listener asks should a difference on Eschatology as long as one

believes in a literal physical bodily return of Christ in the future.

Ever bar someone from membership or leadership in a local church.

And we'll have you answer that when we come back.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own and

I would do so as quickly as you can because we've only got about 25 minutes or so left in

the program.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as always give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away.

We'll be right back with Eli Ayala after these messages.

As host of Iron Trump and Zion radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a

church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus reading preaching and

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Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GC

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That's GC BC NJ dot squarespace .com.

Or call them at nine zero eight nine nine six seven six five four.

That's nine zero eight nine nine six seven six five four.

Tell pastor done that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio.

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes.

Are you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby?

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church.

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Like the Historical Bible Society the Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books

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Since 2004 HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States

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But if you go attorney at law is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational

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Come journey through their website historical Bible Society org.

The collection includes a complete 11th century Bible an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from

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I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love Hope

Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church

in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to Enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing

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.net or call 6 3 1 6 9 6 5 7 1 1.

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Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on iron sharpens iron.

And don't forget folks.

The conference with Gary DeMar is being held at Hope Reformed Baptist Church on Friday and

Saturday March 20th and 21st.

Hope Reformed Baptist Church is located in Coram, Long Island, New York.

I intend to be there as does my former co -host Buzz Taylor and

Not only is Gary going to be speaking at the conference

on God government in the last days, but he's also going to be preaching Sunday morning.

I'm not sure what topic they have planned for him or that he has planned.

But I'm great.

I'm thrilled to hear the great news that Gary is going to be speaking there as well on Sunday morning preaching I

should say and If you'd like to join me there you want more details

About the conference at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York featuring Gary DeMar of American

vision.

Go to reformed rookie net reformed rookie.

R -o -o -k -i -e dot net or dot -com and There will you will see all the

information that you need.

You can also call six three one six, nine six five seven eleven six three one six nine six five seven

eleven and We are now back with our final segment of today's show

With Eli Ayala of the Historical Bible Society and revealed apologetics we are discussing the dangers of

minimizing or inflating the role of eschatology and Eli as you may

remember we have an anonymous listener who wants to know as long as one holds to

the historically understood View of the return of Christ which the

church has universally agreed includes the

visible physical bodily return of Christ and Also a future bodily

resurrection of the dead as long as one's eschatology holds those crucial elements.

Should someone be barred from either membership or leadership in a church?

Obviously, those are two very different things.

There are some there are some things that a church might rightly agree.

Would bar somebody from leadership.

And there are you know churches disagree on on the severity of of

eschatology Involved in the decision -making on who is appointed to be a leader and of course being a

member of a church.

That's that's something that is altogether different will not altogether different, but very different because I

Know that many of my reform brethren disagree with me on this.

But I don't believe that a reformed church should even have Calvinism as a litmus test

for membership as long as somebody recognizes that The leadership of this

church that they are joining believes in the doctrines of sovereign grace that they hold to a

confession of faith and etc and They are not to undermine it.

They are not to seek to destroy the the

The content of messages being presented in sermons and Bible studies by

Immediately running to the sides of those in the congregation to undermine what they have

heard that kind of a thing but but I think that We who are reformed need to be patient with

People as they grow in the knowledge and understanding of the word and their sanctification and so on but I

don't know that you may disagree with me on that as well, but if you could do if you could answer specifically the

listeners question about eschatology barring somebody from either membership or leadership.

Yeah,

I think I think.

Sorry

about

that

folks.

I was

pouring

myself a

cup

of coffee

and

obviously

I

didn't.

I

didn't

time

it.

Exactly, right.

According to Eli's I was waiting.

I was waiting for you to say I didn't catch anything.

Well, thank you anonymous listener that was an excellent Question and of course, there are

very sad situations where you have even churches

Disfellowshipping entire congregations because they might disagree on

pre -trib versus mid -trib versus pre -wrath and They will view

their their brothers and sisters for whom Christ died as Being outside of the Christian faith

because of those differences and that's right.

That's a very sad commentary.

I most influential book you read.

I mean, I don't know other than the Bible, of course, right?

Was Gary DeMar's last.

I won't get into the details.

But when

I read

last

day's madness, it

challenged me

so foundationally

that it affected

what I believed in

other

areas.

Yes, I

agree

and.

Before I ask another listener question I think that it is would be wise for us to

say something about an eschatological danger that is Still

relatively small.

It's still a minority voice, but it seems To be gaining Traction

unfortunately, and I'm speaking of hyper preterism Also known as full

preterism It's also been called covenant eschatology and Unrealized

eschatology.

There are many different labels for it, but This has really become an

annoying Annoying voice within

professing Christianity and it seems that the people who adhere to this Eschatology which

denies the future visible Physical return of Christ and the

denies the future resurrection of the dead Both those who are saved and those who are damned

This has become their gospel it seems.

But if you could comment with your own impression of this

Just just like you're not going to typically find people calling themselves hyper Calvins.

We

have

Grady

one

of our

most

loyal

listeners

and also

one

of

our most loyal

financial.

Benefactors.

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

Hi brothers, Chris and Eli.

In my Christian walk.

I have gone from dispensationalist to covenant theology from pre -trib to pre

-wrath to a mill.

Don't you think as we grow in our sanctification that our eyes are opened to new

truths?

And if you want to answer that.

Yeah, it depends what you mean by new truth you want to be right.

About.

Here's the thing.

Here's a very very important.

If you're if your eschatology involves Abraham Lincoln being the Antichrist and there's something there's something wrong.

Right.

I think there's there's a very important revelation and I

do not believe that God is gaining new insight.

But through divine inspiration that has

never been held before I think we need to be very careful with things like that.

Rather I believe that our understanding to that which has

already been revealed and I can

give us Understandings that perhaps we didn't have before but I'd be very cautious In calling it like

Brian knew it might be new only in the sense that we didn't hold to before perhaps We didn't know about it.

Um, but right it might not

it might be new to you.

And of course, we are always to be Berean about all these things.

That's right.

And again, I'm

not I'm

not saying

that

thing.

Yes, you don't want to come up with novel interpretation things like that, right, right.

And what I do is I do encourage

the grow out of time and don't forget you can

find out more about the historical Bible Society.

At historical Bible Society org historical Bible Society org you can find out more

about revealed apologetics on Facebook.

Just look up revealed apologetics and don't forget about reformed rookie net.

Reformed rookie are okay.

I eat net for more information about the Gary DeMar conference on Long Island, New York on Friday and

Saturday March 20th and 21st and also a Gary DeMar speaking engagement on Sunday the

22nd I will be there God willing and I hope to see you there as well.

Reformed rookie net.

Thank you so much Eli for being on the program today.

I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus

Christ is a far greater Savior than you are.

A sinner.