Cassian's Recap: Do Jewish texts and the book of Enoch explain Revelation?

Biblically Speaking

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Hello everybody and welcome to Cassian's recap of can we use Jewish texts like Enoch to understand and decipher

00:09

Revelation I am I really enjoyed recording this episode with dr. James Sedlacek and it was such an in -depth episode that actually spanned two hours and We wanted to model the episode essentially organized with here's

00:22

Revelation here's a Jewish text that would have been referenced or known at the time of revelation for the original readers

00:29

And how can the language used in these other texts help us decipher? Revelation because I don't think

00:35

I'm alone in the fact that the language of Revelation is really hard to understand It uses a lot of imagery and words that cannot be easily understood without a reference point and I think the

00:48

Holy Spirit does a good job of Bringing our attention to things that maybe we don't understand or bringing us to scripture that maybe resonates with us

00:57

But I need it like it's not like I've read other Jewish texts So I was such a blessing to have dr.

01:03

James Sedlacek there who has read the other text who has taught the other text

01:09

He has now taught a course on Jewish texts and how they reveal meanings and References and codes used in Revelation.

01:18

He's now taught that eight times So when he was invited to speak on this and this is why he's such a blessing to have when he was invited

01:25

He said I'll teach Revelation But I honestly I'm not excited about it And then when he was looking at the curriculum the curriculum was using reference points in other

01:33

Jewish texts So he's like whoa, this isn't a question about Revelation. This is a discussion on Jewish texts

01:40

So it was really exciting for him to say like listen the way that we understand

01:45

Revelation has been so obscured because Jewish texts have yet to be brought into the conversation here.

01:52

So Who are we to understand Revelation when we're not understanding? Jewish texts in their entirety and the whole so today's recap is really to answer the question

02:01

Can we use Jewish texts like Enoch to understand Revelation? So I think one of the things that dr.

02:07

James Sedlacek wants to start with and myself is that people add their own understanding to Revelation They read

02:13

Revelation and they're like, oh this is clearly talking about the Antichrist, which has to be the Pope and oh

02:19

Yeah, when they mentioned the seven stars This is the seven countries that had the United Nations or whatever it is.

02:24

And at the end of the day, that's all speculation It's not confirmed. It doesn't make sense. Why would

02:29

John be referencing the United Nations and it doesn't actually help It just scares us.

02:35

It just gets us to click on the bait It just gets us to buy the next book

02:40

And so it's very nice to have this rooted in Scripture that is supported with other scripture used at that time that John would have known when he wrote

02:48

Revelation when Sedlacek when dr. James Sedlacek was planning out the curriculum to teach a course on Revelation He was referencing

02:57

Jewish texts. I've never heard my pastor do that. So it's helping us understand that Revelation was written to a

03:05

OG Jewish audience, but We don't understand that because there's a rise of Gentile leadership and This is where those

03:16

Jewish codes Jewish context gets lost Because the Gentiles aren't referencing

03:21

Jewish language. They're Gentiles. They're referencing Gentile language so there's no communication between the groups and this is from a purely historical timeline of Just there's a rise of people that no longer communicate with the original readers and writers

03:34

Which are the Jewish text and we'll get into the timeline of these books and kind of where the separation lands but at the end of the day like if you're a

03:43

Gentile you're not going to interpret it as a native Jew and the original Revelation wasn't in Greek.

03:50

It was in Hebrew which differs from other books in the New Testament So you kind of have this like wonky book that comes out of nowhere where it's like, okay

03:58

Old Testament Torah Hebrew boom New Testament now in Greek and then this random book at the very end

04:05

That's using original Hebrew using original Hebrew language and references and text Of course, we struggle with it.

04:11

But the people at the time were like, yeah, I mean, I'm a Gentile I'm Greek, but like I'm kind of aware but like I don't really use it

04:17

But like the resources were within reach at the time like they're circulating Jewish texts again.

04:23

We'll get into that So the Jewish text the timeline of apocalyptic Literature Which apocalypse

04:31

I thought meant Armageddon? I thought meant end of the world get ready for the fiery

04:37

Asteroids and the and the wave of water the tsunami. That's not what apocalypse means it's a

04:43

Greek word that means to reveal what is hidden kind of like when you come out at dinner and You have like a plate with that cover and you take off the top and you reveal what's under that's the apocalypse

04:55

So this apocalypse and revelation is to reveal the hidden God to uncover the

05:01

Son of God So the Jewish text timeline is we get we get Daniel, which is the apocalyptic text we get

05:07

Ezekiel Isaiah Zachariah and then After all these books come out There's a bunch of Jewish persecution just in the history of the world and then we get revelation which comes out after that So revelation comes out after all of that and now disconnected audience and revelation is the spicy new book with all this new language and a completely different flavor from all of the other

05:32

New Testament books, so What we need to understand is that revelation? interacts with those apocalyptic texts that were referenced before Revelation is cross referencing events and language from Daniel Ezekiel Isaiah and Zachariah It's not referencing the

05:49

Gospels. So when you go from the Gospels to Revelation, of course, you're confused So and when

05:55

I say reference other messages, it's I'm sorry It's referencing other texts not just Daniel Ezekiel Isaiah Zachariah It's also referencing other books not in the biblical canon like Baruch Enoch Jubilee Ezra those were important Jewish texts at that time that just didn't make it into the biblical canon.

06:16

So If you're going to understand revelation you need to understand as a whole and what was used in the

06:23

Jewish community at that time and These were used in the Jewish community to help understand the prophets more

06:29

So, you know, why was it not included in the biblical canon? Of course,

06:34

I'm like any other 2024 Millennial where it's like well because they're hiding things right because they have secrets that they did not want us to know

06:45

Right. No, that's not really that case. Actually upon further discussion, it's um,

06:53

I mean Enoch was included in other biblical canons and People decided in their own right when and where it should be included, you know

07:01

Should it be in the Hebrew or the Christian Bible that's going to be debated by different groups like the Pharisees the

07:06

Sadducees Orthodox Jews all of them had different takes on it because again, you've got the Old Testament Apocrypha and then the

07:13

New Testament so Like Ezra is now in the Hebrew canon and some

07:18

Christians kept Enoch Like the Egyptians and Armenian Bibles within that Apocrypha So sometimes it was included but at the end of the day it was as needed

07:29

It wasn't excluded because it was forbidden one of the examples that we discussed in this call that I think is very helpful to put this in context is like Elvis had a

07:40

He had a lot of songs But we only know like the top five like jailhouse rock blue suede shoes

07:47

That's like literally the only ones I can name off the top of my head and like I love Elvis I'm not like that disconnected. Does that mean his other songs were forbidden?

07:56

No, like they heard tons of Jewish books. The most relevant ones came to the surface like Daniel Ezekiel Isaiah Zechariah Revelation it's not that Enoch was forbidden.

08:08

It's not that his older older songs I can't even like his gospel songs go with that are forbidden.

08:14

No, it's just what rises to the top What's what's needed for today? What's needed in the grand scheme of growing your faith or listening to quality

08:21

Elvis music? I Hope that that resonates better for the question of is

08:27

Enoch forbidden because there's secrets and yes There are some crazy visions in there. There's also crazy visions in Revelation So, how are we going to interpret that through other

08:37

Jewish texts? Okay, so coming back to Enoch going a little bit deeper on who this person is.

08:45

Where did it come from? Is it even a person remember that apocalypse means revelation? It means to reveal.

08:51

So what is the revelation in? Revelation 1 God the King Is wanting

08:58

Jesus as a revelation the heir apparent To be shown to his bond servants, which would be

09:04

John and how is it shown to his bond servants? Through a revelation carried by angels

09:10

Okay So the witness John is now seeing this revelation of Jesus through a message carried by a messenger which is an angel angel messenger same word so Enoch having the same revelation as John uses the same language that we see in Enoch 1

09:28

Enoch is saying his eyes are open But he's seeing something in a heavenly place and this is shown to him by the angel the messenger

09:38

So this is the same thing happening to Enoch as it's happening to John They're seeing the same vision in the same way from God as a revelation

09:47

And I and it's using the same language That's pretty hard to kind of wrap our heads around like Enoch If you didn't know is a person who lived seven generations after Adam Okay, this is before Moses.

10:03

This is before the flood This is I mean it depends on old earth young earth, it doesn't matter it's before Jesus, okay

10:11

Definitely before John that's for sure So how is John in the New Testament seeing the same thing as Enoch seven generations after Adam?

10:18

That's hmm. And the way that explains this is he's like like you and me we're on zoom, right?

10:26

We're both seeing the same thing and we're in different places Enoch is at a different place in time than John and yet they're seeing the same vision kind of like Facilitated by an angel of a heavenly realm kind of like how you and I are not in the same place

10:41

But we can see each other facilitated by zoom or Riverside Isn't that crazy?

10:47

Isn't that crazy when we think about God exists outside of time? This is where we kind of see what that looks like what that what that means

10:55

It's very interstellar ask Okay, so Enoch person born seven generations after Adam but this is where people and probably why

11:07

Enoch was not included in the biblical canon is because when you read Enoch Enoch is a collection of visions from different people and it rises 300 years before Jesus it would like emerges 300 a

11:22

BC So the book itself has language that is not about Enoch It's a bunch of visions and then they just slap the name

11:29

Enoch on it. So the authorship is unverified You know, it's not verified that it's written by Enoch It doesn't even make sense that it'd be written by Enoch if it came 300 years before Jesus From a man that lived thousands of years before closer to Adam Like how would it have survived the

11:46

Alexandria Library the flood like it doesn't make sense how it would work

11:51

So that's why they're like listen, we can't justify this So we're just gonna not include in the biblical canon, which kind of makes sense.

11:57

I mean again, nothing is verified So even what the example I just gave Might not even be the real answer.

12:03

We don't know but we just know there's too much confusion on its origin and its author so To me that makes sense why it wouldn't be included again

12:12

Like I wasn't part of the Council of Nicaea, but I think that that I can I can land with that type of confusion and why they chose

12:20

Anyways moving on so it's unlikely to be written by Enoch there. It's a collection of visions by different authors using different writing styles

12:29

It would have had to survive So many years had it been actually written by Enoch and it's not really cited in other common books

12:38

So why use a resource or an Elvis song? That's not really needed or referenced as much

12:44

However, the topic of Revelation and Apocalypse and apocalyptic literature and Jewish texts very relevant, which is why we're just discussing it today

12:52

So kind of going back to what I talked about before with the timeline of Jewish text

12:57

You know, we talked about Daniel Ezekiel Isaiah Zechariah a bunch of Jewish persecution and then the book of Revelation That's just what we know in the biblical canon

13:06

There's also others Jewish texts like Baruch and Enoch, you know something that we discussed in the text

13:11

So this is all text of a different vision, you know Baruch is seeing the same vision Enoch is seeing the same vision.

13:17

John is seeing the same vision However, this is going to be different people in different timelines timelines in their life

13:23

So we need to cross -reference to understand the language If you skip over the text that came before Revelation like Daniel like Enoch like Baruch and you just take

13:33

Revelation You're gonna be confused hence why we're having the conversation and the example that said

13:38

Lissette gives on What would be like a modern -day equivalent is like if you only read book seven of Harry Potter and you skipped out on books one through six how much character development and plot holes and Characters and relationships and events and tragedies and successes.

13:57

Do you miss out on that when it's mentioned in the last book? You're like was that important?

14:03

What do you mean? What do you mean? I actually haven't read Harry Potter so I can't even speak on this but That's why it's important to look at these other texts

14:14

You can't just look at Revelation and draw conclusions when you're missing so many other books that would have set you up to understand

14:21

Revelation So moving on we actually jump into the text

14:26

We don't spend the entire episode just talking about Enoch and why it was excluded and the purpose of it we actually do a side -by -side comparison of the text and some of the things that I Needed someone to spell out to me because how the heck would

14:38

I know? It feels like you must have to Google every word in the Bible to understand its original meaning

14:44

Is that said Lissac points out that in Hebrew angels are also referred to as spirits?

14:51

Okay, and an angel is a messenger We talked about this before and what the revelation was and a messenger can be human, you know

14:58

Don't kill don't shoot the messenger or it could be a spirit This is a very generic term.

15:03

It's like oh, he's my worker. What does that mean? Is he your slave or is he your employee is your colleague like what does that mean with worker angel is the same?

15:12

It's a very very generic term. That's kind of used interchangeably in these texts. So it's not so when we see

15:19

Messenger or angel it doesn't always reference a human So in Hebrews it clarifies with the other text side by side that oh, we're talking about a messenger

15:28

Oh, we're talking about a spirit now So that use of messenger in one text and spirit and another shows that this messenger is not human it is an angel

15:37

It is of the spirit realm not the human realm So the use of Hebrews in these verses helps us understand

15:45

Oh, they're not just like getting the mailman to stop by and talk about a revelation of Jesus. They're getting a non human form messenger

15:55

Moving on. So this is why this is important I mean, we're kind of getting in it but Baruch Jubilee Hebrews John they depend on you know

16:04

Jude quotes from it. Jesus makes points from it. So we need to understand it in its entirety

16:10

That's why I'm honing on Enoch so hard. I'm not saying that it needs to be part of your devotions

16:16

I'm just saying like to really get to this deeper level of faith. It's going to require us to understand the role it plays

16:23

So it really it focuses us to relook at the earlier followers and Understand Enoch without applying it out of context which all of us fail to do we've all seen the clickbaity things of like Enoch has the

16:34

Anukai and the watchers that are here to kill us and there are I Don't even know I honestly It's not used for sermons, but we have to understand it

16:44

You can't take text out of Enoch and apply it to the same degree of other scriptures from the Bible You should understand it.

16:50

You should research it You should not use your own interpretation for it though, maybe like Psalms or Proverbs That's a much better scripture to take one verse out of context without reading anything before after and being like, yeah

17:03

Okay, this is safe Enoch. Don't do that So some other things about the text and this is like my favorite thing to do

17:11

Which is where we'll end is like what is the text saying? So revelation? What is the revelation?

17:17

What is going on in revelation now that we can understand the purpose and how it's used and where we're getting this from Language that says end of times and language that says end of days

17:28

The same same thing there. Okay, this is language that's used in the New Testament So if we're over here in 2024 2025 like oh, it's the end of days

17:38

People in the New Testament have been saying it's the end of days for the last 2 ,000 years Which is crazy that is so crazy that like they thought they were in the end times and here we are with like Microchips and Bluetooth and AI and we're like, yeah, we're so near.

17:53

It's like it's gonna happen tomorrow. It's like they felt the same way So getting into the text, what is

18:00

John saying? Because you and I we know revelation We don't we don't read Jubilee. We don't read Enoch, but we read revelation

18:06

So what does it mean John is describing a man in the middle of a menorah? The way that John is describing this man is using the same language that Enoch Uses to describe the ancient of days, which is another term meaning

18:21

God So John is describing a man using the same language Enoch used to describe God Remember Enoch does not know about Jesus.

18:29

Okay, he lives way before that So Enoch is like, oh, yeah God, you know the God the

18:34

God of the Hebrews We know John's like there's a guy there, but he's a godly guy So John is talking about a human.

18:43

He's not talking about God the way Enoch is so some of the crazy imagery that they use is like his hand was holding seven stars or A sharp two -edged sword is coming out of his mouth.

18:55

That's God imagery Only God would be holding seven stars seven messengers seven hosts little armies his stars in the sky his angels and that is

19:04

So that star colludes many things but that's an adaptation of the depiction of Greek and Roman emperors on coins

19:12

They would be holding messenger gods and in Jesus's hand. Whoops. I spelled it. I spoiled it.

19:18

Okay, the human is Jesus Jesus this human God is holding seven angels

19:25

So again, if you're living at this Jewish time that revelation come out like you're very familiar with Greco -Roman culture

19:31

You know their coins they're holding a star because they're the Emperor they're the gods This is saying this human is doing what gods do and holds seven stars

19:42

And then the two -edged sword mouth also only the mouth of a God a human wouldn't have a two -edged sword coming out his mouth

19:51

So what we really have to take home here is that John in Revelation is connecting

19:56

God attributes to a human He's talking about Jesus Okay, clearly it's

20:03

Jesus at the end of time, which you knew which you knew But you knock didn't and yet this text is using the same language so All in all can we use

20:14

Jewish texts like Enoch to understand Revelation? Yes hard. Yes, because the use of these

20:20

Jewish codes Like in Enoch in Baruch in Hebrews in Jubilee They communicate the coming of Jesus in terms that they would understand and now you understand it

20:34

Thank you so much for listening to this recap Thank you so much for being a part of this community

20:39

If you want to connect outside of just listening follow me on Instagram This is biblically speaking or join my community talk one -on -one with me

20:48

Interview, dr. James said Lissette access Bible studies I have over 30 courses available to you that you can download use teacher small group teacher family at the end of the day we're here to understand

21:00

God's Word clearly and simply through the oversight of These scholars who have studied it for years and through the gift and through the guidance of the

21:08

Holy Spirit Are we discerned to conversations that are to lead us closer to him to make him bigger and us smaller and to align with this truth?

21:15

Anyways, thank you so much for listening to biblically speaking and I'll see you next week and happy holidays

21:21

We're actually let me just throw this in we're actually taking a break for Christmas week and New Year's week So no episodes will be released then but we have so much lined up for 2025.