Interview with Former Roman Catholic Mike Gendron

Justin Peters

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Hello, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today

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I want to thank you so very much for joining me for this podcast And I want to say a couple of things real quickly before we get into the interview with Mike Gendron One if you are a

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Roman Catholic Maybe you saw this thumbnail and you're a Roman Catholic and you decided to see what this is about Please do watch the entirety of this interview

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Please do know that Mike and I did this interview not because we hate

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Roman Catholics Not at all. We love Roman Catholics Mike Gendron was himself a

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Roman Catholic for the first half or so of his life So we we love

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Roman Catholics, but we love them enough to tell them the truth So, please watch this Please watch this with an open mind with an open

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Bible if you have maybe you're not Roman Catholic But you have friends or family members who are please watch this

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Really trust that it will be helpful for you. That's the first thing The second thing is that my audio is messed up in this interview

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I didn't realize it until the interview was over and I went back and watch facts, you know notice I'm wearing the same shirt so this is a recent discovery, but Apparently my computer

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I got a new computer And apparently this new computer with a new chip was not compatible with the version of zoom that I had

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That I'd already had installed. So anyway, I think that's fixed right now, but it's too late for the interview

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So I'm gonna sound like I'm in a well, so I do apologize for that. You'll be able to hear me

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You'll be able to understand me. It's just not not great quality at all. Mike's is okay

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Mike's audio is okay, but mine not so much but at any rate, I hope that won't be a

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Distraction to you. Okay. Let's go to the interview But it is my privilege to have

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Mike Gendron as my guest Here on my youtube channel my podcast and just a little bit of background information

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Mike and I met Oh What Mike's seven eight nine years ago or so, maybe eight or nine years or so, right?

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and And we became friends Mike and his wife Jane I've become dear friends of Kathy and me and There's a lot of similarities actually between Mike's Testimony and that of my wife's and that Mike like my wife was

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Roman Catholic for the first 34 years of his life.

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I think my wife Kathy was so for the first 35 of her life, but So God graciously saved

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Mike Gendron out of Roman Catholicism He was steeped in Roman Catholicism and Mike attended

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In an evangelical conference and God used the truth that was presented there To prick his heart and began to open his eyes to the deception

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That is the Roman Catholic Church and Roman Catholicism and then in 1988 about seven years after that Mike enrolled in Dallas Theological Seminary to continue his studies at a more academic level and Now Mike and his wife

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Jane are both involved in ministry. Of course. Mike is only one who preaches and teaches at least in the public sense, but God has opened up a ministry of evangelism to Mike and I tell people often that Mike Gendron is to Roman Catholicism what

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I am to word of faith in a sense and Mike had Mike and his wife

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Jane both have a passion for Presenting the truth and seeing

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God deliver people out of The deception that is Roman Catholicism and Mike is the author of two books preparing for eternity and Contending for the gospel.

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So Mike brother. It is a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us today

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Well, it's just my joy and my privilege to be on your show and we've done a lot of ministry together over the years

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So it's good to team up here for this podcast Indeed indeed brother. All right.

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Well Mike today as of this recording, this is November the 4th 2021 so we're just a few days removed from the 504th anniversary of The beginning of the

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Protestant Reformation. It was October the 31st 1517 that a

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Roman Catholic monk by the name of Martin Luther famously nailed his 95 theses to the door to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany and so, you know what most people think of October 31st is

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Halloween, but you and I think of it as as Reformation Day, so might tell us a little bit about About the

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Protestant Reformation. What was it and and was it even necessary in the first place?

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Well, sure Martin Luther Strategically chose October 31st to nail his 95 theses on the church door in Wittenberg, Germany Because the next day was

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All Saints Day and that's when Roman Catholics were going to go into worship and venerate relics and relics are bone fragments or hair splotches or fingernails of Roman Catholic saints and so they were supposed to receive indulgences by Confessing to a priest and venerating these relics so Martin Luther chose this day so that many people would see his 95 theses and his 95 theses really protested the use of indulgences in fact,

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Martin Luther was outraged that Roman Catholic Church was selling God's forgiveness for a price and so by nailing these 95 theses

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He was looking for a debate so that people could actually sit down and talk through these

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And so the Reformation was necessary because If you look at the history of the

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Roman Catholic Church it began drifting into apostasy really around the fourth century when

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Constantine became the Roman Emperor and he Established Christianity as the official religion of the

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Roman Empire But it was a false Christianity because no one had to have faith they just had to be baptized and that was how they became a part of this church that Constantine was the pontificus maximus of and so a lot of pagan traditions came in to that church early on and as the years went by more and more pagan traditions were added to the

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Roman Catholic religion, so The word apostasy means they departed from the faith of the

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Apostles And what they started doing as Paul mentioned in 1st Timothy chapter 4 verse 1

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They departed from the faith to follow doctrines of demons so the

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Roman Catholic Church became very demonic over the years and so when Martin Luther nailed these 95 theses it had really progressed to the point where it no longer resembled biblical

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Christianity, especially when it comes to the gospel and so the Purpose of the

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Reformation was to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ to the people and as these reformers began abiding in God's Word they

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Discovered the truth and that truth set them free from religious deception and religious bondage

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And that's true today as people abiding God's Word if they're trapped in religious deception the truth will set them free

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Yes, indeed indeed Well Mike So you mentioned

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Constantine and a question that I'm often asked as I travel and preach and teach and I I hit on Roman Catholicism as well because there's a lot of There's a lot of commonality between word of faith and Roman Catholicism.

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A lot of people don't realize that but there's a lot of overlap there, but a question I'm often asked is this has the

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Roman Catholic Church always been as Heretic did it start off as heretical as it became in later centuries?

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Yeah, it's a good question. When you look at the history of the Church, we really have two streams of Christianity running side -by -side for 2 ,000 years

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We stay in the first century. There was apostasy first John chapter 2 verse 19

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John says they went out from us because they were never part of us had they been part of us

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They would have remained with us Another way John could have said that they went out from us because they were never born again of the

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Spirit of God Had they been born again, they would have remained with us And so you see these two streams operating side -by -side

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The true apostolic church is made up of all those who have been born again of the Spirit of God It doesn't matter today what denomination if you were baptized by the

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Spirit of God you belong to the one true Church but the Roman Catholic Church Started preaching baptismal regeneration even as early as the 4th century so they declared that a person was born again through the waters of baptism and so That put the gospel off -limits to a lot of Catholics They thought they were already on the road to heaven through their sacrament of baptism

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But as the church evolved with more and more heretical doctrines in the 13th century, for example, they established the

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Supposed miracle of transubstantiation where the priest has said to have the power to call

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Jesus Christ down from heaven and Then through this miracle of transubstantiation the inner substance of a wafer

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Becomes his physical body and blood soul and divinity So the priest will then lift up the wafer for all the

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Catholics to worship The wafer as the true Christ having been called down from heaven to continue the work of redemption on an altar that he finished on the cross and so The Catholic priest will lift it up All the

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Catholics will worship to the Eucharist and then he will lay it on the altar as a propitiatory sacrifice such that The sins committed in the previous week by Roman Catholics are appeased by God through the offering of this

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Eucharist and so more and more Heretical teachings came into the

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Catholic Church to the point where God raised up these Reformers and one of the heresies was that they named the

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Pope as the head of the church Now we know the true head of the church is the Lord Jesus Christ.

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He's the one that suffered and died and bled He purchased the church with his own blood

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How dare the Pope declare himself to be head of the church? And so the

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Reformation actually re -established Christ as the head of the church the Reformation also was necessary because the

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Catholic Church had elevated the teachings of their infallible bishops above the authority of Scripture Yeah in fact

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When you stop and think about it if anyone is above Scripture and they're the only ones that can interpret it

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Then they have placed themselves above the inerrant inspired authoritative Word of God So the

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Reformers established the scriptures as a supreme authority and that's why when we look at the

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Reformation We have these five important solos The Catholic Church had taught salvation was by grace plus merit faith plus works

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Christ plus other mediators Scripture plus tradition and glory was going to God as well as Mary and the

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Saints. So the Reformers said no Having discovered the true gospel and the scriptures they said salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone

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According to Scripture alone all for the glory of God alone. Yes, indeed Indeed and sometimes when

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I'm talking to Catholics or I get emails and I've right before we started recording I shared with you that I got an email just this morning from Someone who has taken issue with what

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I've taught about the Roman Catholic Church, but it's not that So Roman Roman Catholics Roman Catholicism would not deny

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At least not in words. They would not say. Oh, no, we're not saved by grace. I mean they would say yes, we're saved by grace and yes

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We must have faith so they would not deny grace and faith at least not outright

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But they use some of the same lingo Mike They'll use the term grace.

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They'll use the term faith, but they don't mean by those terms what you and I Would mean by those terms, right?

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They they add a meaning into Grace, especially grace Then we're so right and I'm so glad you brought this up Justin because We really do have to define terms when we're witnessing to Roman Catholics Exactly as every

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Catholic believes are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, but the word alone becomes so important Yes But paragraph 20 27 of the

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Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholics must merit all the graces necessary for salvation

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Well, how do you merit the unmerited favor of God? And so Paul said in Romans 11 6 if it is by grace it is not of works

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Otherwise grace is not grace and you know that Satan Has all of these religions of the world that teach you must do things to appease their

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God That's right. So Satan knows that if you add anything to grace, you've nullified the only means by which

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God saves sinners And so Roman Catholicism is no different from any other religion in the world.

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It's a works righteousness salvation Catholics must merit and do works in order to be justified before God Right, if we add anything to grace any human work any human merit then you've redefined grace and and grace is no longer grace so You may use the term but you've you've completely obliterated the meaning and redefine it so as to be meaningless

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Well, when we look at the gospel of the Reformation We talked about the five solas.

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Well the Roman Catholic Church When you look at their gospel what a Catholic must do in order to be saved

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It really is amazing that they don't observe what Paul wrote in Galatians 1 verses 6 to 9 because there

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Paul was condemning with anathema the Judaizers who wanted to add one requirement in order to be saved

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They said you not only have to believe in Jesus. You have to be circumcised So Paul said let's let them be anathema.

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Well, the Catholic Church teaches that you must be baptized that's necessary You must receive the sacraments to be saved.

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You must do good works in order to be justified You must believe in indulgences to remit temporal punishment for sin

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You must believe in a purging fire of purgatory to purge away Venial sins and you must obey the law in order to be saved

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Yeah, well that places them under the same curse as the Judaizers and so when we look at the

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Roman Catholic religion we have to say that the clergy is under the same condemnation as the

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Judaizers for preaching a Distorted gospel and so I hope your listeners would recognize

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That the Roman Catholic Church is under divine condemnation and we need to rescue Precious souls out from a church that is damned by Almighty God for perverting the gospel

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Indeed indeed Mike and it's not that you and I tell people this too it's not that we hate

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Roman Catholics at all we love Roman you wouldn't do what you're doing if you did not have a Tremendous heart and burden for Roman Catholics, right?

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That's so true. That is my motivation. In fact 31 years ago We began inviting

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Roman Catholics over to our home to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with them and During a three -month period we saw 17

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Roman Catholics exchange their religion for a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ And we never really set out to start a ministry, but we saw that there was such a need to reach

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Catholics. And so What do you do with 17 new babes in Christ? Well, you invite them back over on Wednesday night to help them grow in the grace of knowledge of our

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Lord And so they began asking us to put things in writing so they could share with their family and loved ones

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And that was really the genesis of the ministry that the Lord has literally taken around the world over the last 31 years

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We stand in all what he's done because we're just a couple of broken vessels that love

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Roman Catholics have a great compassion for Catholics who are where we were for so many years of our lives and we want to see them saved

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Amen. Amen, indeed Mike I don't know the answer this question specifically, but I know from Kathy's testimony

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When she was a Roman Catholic as I said the first 30 34 35 years of her life.

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Oh She didn't she to her it seemed like just a a an endless hamster wheel if you will of You got to do enough works and even as an unconverted person in the

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Roman Catholic Church She still had that sense that she she just knew she couldn't do enough to earn her way into heaven it seemed like just an endless helpless hopeless series of Doing works and you got to go to confession.

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You got to confess your sins Say your Hail Mary say your our fathers, you know say however many

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I don't know the number but the priest would say, you know say 30 Hail Mary's and 45 our fathers to and so she would do it and this just kind of wrote thing, but but deep down she knew that this this wasn't gonna get her into heaven and And it just seemed helpless to her did as a

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Roman Catholic, did you Did you believe that you were okay, or did you also have this knowing

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Doubt on the inside of you that something here is not right. You just didn't know what it was and did you know that you were unconverted or Tell us a little bit about that.

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Yeah, it's First of all, the Roman Catholic Church does not give the promise of the gospel

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Which is eternal everlasting life with the Savior Roman Catholics only have conditional life and I was aware of my conditional life

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In fact when I was still in the corporate world as a Roman Catholic I'd get on an airplane every

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Monday morning to go sell computers and I had this great fear What if the plane goes down?

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Well, I end up in purgatory or hell. Yeah, it was not an option And so I understand

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Kathy's situation being a mouse on a treadmill Wheel I've often said it was like being on a treadmill

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Always doing my best to appease the Holy and Righteous God were going nowhere right, so Now when

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I get on an airplane, I know if it goes down I'm instantly in the presence of my Savior and that's because I have believed the gospel which promises eternal life

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But in Roman Catholicism, you only have conditional life whether or not you get to heaven is based on whether or not you die in the state of grace

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Which means you cannot die a mortal sin and it also depends on Whether or not you receive the sacraments and you've obeyed the law

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So Roman Catholics look at God grading on the curve. And so you're always trying to do your best

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I remember when I was a college student I would go to church every day during Lent because I felt like I was building up indulgences by going to Mass and Then my sins hopefully would not be as heavy as the indulgences that I was building up.

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So yeah, it's a It's a religion that is based on a false. Hope and that's why

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Catholics when You point them to first John 5 13 Where John writes to those who believe in the name of the

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Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life That is something

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Catholics don't know. And so that really Is a great verse to start with as we sit down and share the gospel as Roman Catholics Amen, amen, because they they have no assurance of their salvation.

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There is no assurance in Roman Catholicism Talk to us that kind of reminds me talk to us a little bit about purgatory.

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What is the doctrine of purgatory? Where did it come from?

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Is there any And we know the Bible doesn't support it But they surely they've got some verse that they try to take out of content

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I mean, they've got a they've got to hang their purgatory hat on something So talk to us a little bit about purgatory and and what the

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Catholic Church teaches about that and where it comes from Yes, the Catholic Church teaches that purgatory is an intermediate place between heaven and hell

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And if you die in grace, but you still have unforgiven sins those would be venial sins and just to Pause for a moment.

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The Catholic Church has two different types of sin Mortal sin are deadly. They send you to hell and they cause you to be dejustified

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And venial sins are lesser sins Mortal sins would be like murder

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Adultery or even missing church on Sunday would be considered a mortal sin venial sins would be

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Say a white lie or stealing a small amount of money or goods Those would be punishable and purgatory it not to interrupt

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Mike, but I guess to interrupt Okay, so so run that by us again a moral moral sin if you die

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Having committed a moral sin and you have not yet received, you know Forgiveness from the priest or gone to mass so missing church.

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So if you're a Roman Catholic and you miss mass And then

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Later that day you die of something step out in the street get hit by a truck You go to you will go to hell because you miss mass

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Yeah, and you have to miss it deliberately purposefully Obviously if you're sick or something like that Then you have an excuse

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But yeah If you deliberately miss mass for no reason that is a mortal sin and if you die in that state you will go straight to hell you know, it's interesting because when you look at the doctrine of justification the

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Catholic Church teaches that an infant is justified at infant baptism

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Later on if he rose up and commits a mortal sin Now he is on his road to hell he must be rejustified by confessing to a priest doing good works

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Achieving enough merit to qualify to heaven again. And so when

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I was on a cruise on the Pauline Tour in the

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Mediterranean, there was a Roman Catholic priest on board and I approached him with that very statement

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I said is it true that a Baptized infant who commits a mortal sin later as an adult would end up in hell

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He said yes, and I said, well, how do you explain Romans 830? Those God justifies he glorifies.

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Yeah, did you know what? We just don't have an answer for that Now here's a

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Catholic priest who knows what the Word of God says, but rather than submit to its authority

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He tells me we just don't have an answer and so That's what a mortal sin is it it deprives you of grace

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It causes you to be Dejustified and you must be rejustified in order to once again have a right standing before God and so Purgatory then is a place where people die without mortal sin, but with venial sins and those are

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Taken care of through the fires of purgatory is a purifying fire And no priest can tell you how long you have to spend to purify those sins away

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But this is the moneymaker of the Catholic Church. The family will purchase

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Indulgences normally in the form of a mass card They'll buy it from the priest and pay anywhere from 50 to 300 dollars

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Write the name of their loved one on the indulgence mass card

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The priest will lay it on the altar and offer up the mass the sacrifice of the

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Eucharist To get that person out of purgatory But he will not tell you how many masses must be offered nor will he tell you how many years you must suffer for each sin so the

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Roman Catholic is Dependent upon his priest not only in this life to receive the sacraments

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But even in the next life as they're suffering in this fictitious place called purgatory

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This has been a huge moneymaker for the Catholic Church. In fact That was really the spark that ignited the

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Reformation the selling of indulgences And a lot of the money went toward the building of st.

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Peter's Yeah, Roman Catholics today still rely on Indulgences to get them out of this fictitious place

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Right. Yeah for every coin into the coffer rings a soul from purgatory Springs.

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That's an attributed Johann Tetzel Tetzel. Yes, and and so Mike there's to this day the

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Roman Catholic Church still Does that right? I mean they you still purchase

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Mass cards or purgatory cards to get the soul of your deceased loved one out of purgatory more quickly

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I mean, they may not use that little jingle that I just ran it off from Tetzel, but they still do the same thing, right?

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Yeah, in fact when my dear old dad died as a devout Catholic We went through his mail and we could not believe the hundreds of indulgences that have been purchased

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For my dad to get him out of this fictitious place And there's a verse 1st

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John 1 7 it says the blood of Jesus Purifies us from all sin also and in Hebrews 1 3 when he obtained purification for sin

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He sat down at the right hand of the Father in heaven So Catholics who will put their trust in Jesus will have all of their sins purified by his blood

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And these are the verses we need to share with Catholics because the truth is going to set them free

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If they're willing to submit to the authority of God's Word instead of their religion, you know, you know

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But Justin it might be good just to talk about a little the doctrine of justification

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Because it really ties into what we were just talking about him and really the

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Reformers Recognized that the Catholic Church had justification wrong, but Martin Luther said that Justification is the very hinge upon which the gates of heaven open and close

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He said if you get justification wrong, you get the gospel wrong, right? so I think we need to start by defining what justification is and I think the best way to define it is to say that it actually declares the

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Inflexible righteousness of God as a judge who must punish every sin

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That's ever been committed by every man and woman that's ever lived and the only way condemned sinners

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Can be justified is through faith and the sin -bearing substitutionary atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ who satisfied divine justice

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So anyone who wants their divine justice satisfied by Christ All they have to do is put their trust in him repent of the false way that they were believing and put their trust in Christ and When you look at the doctrine of justification,

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I want to just share quickly how many different ways the Catholic Church perverts the doctrine of justification

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The Bible tells us it's instantaneous. In fact, oftentimes you see a gavel coming down Symbolizing that when that gavel comes down The condemned sinner is now declared righteous because they've received or the righteousness of Christ through imputation

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That's been credited to their account, but the Catholic Church says no, it's not a legal declaration by God It's the transformation of the inner person

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You become more and more righteous as you receive more and more sacraments. So it's not instantaneous

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It's actually a process whereby Catholics grow in their righteousness We've already talked about the

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Catholic Church declaring that baptism is the sacrament of justification But yet the

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Bible clearly says Justification is by faith in what God accomplished in Christ How can a seven -day -old infant have faith in anything right and the

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Roman Catholic Church? Teaches that Justification is increased when you do good works and it's decreased and actually lost if you commit a mortal sin now the

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Bible Says that justification is permanent It's never lost by sin

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The legal status of a justified man is unchangeable as the righteousness of Christ And I love sharing

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Hebrews 10 14 by one offering. He has made perfect forever Those are being sanctified

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We have the righteousness of Christ perfect righteousness forever Catholic Church denies that the

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Bible also says God justifies the ungodly Romans 4 5 but Roman Catholicism rejects that Says you have to become righteous through the changing of the inner man

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Justification is the imputation of Christ's righteousness, but Rome says no it's the infusion

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And so you have to become more and more righteous the more sacraments you receive you can see why the reformers had to Reestablish the doctrine of justification because the

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Catholic Church had perverted it to no end Talk to us a little bit more Mike about the difference between imputed and infused

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Righteousness now, those are maybe some theological terms with which not everybody is familiar, but There's a there's the difference between imputed and infused righteousness is the difference between heaven and hell

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It's the difference between being lost and being saved. So drill down a little bit more for us

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You know Catholics believe in infused righteousness. What's the big deal if they believe that as opposed to imputed, right?

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What are these terms mean? Why is that such an important distinction? Sure. Well, the word imputation can also mean credited the righteousness of Christ is imputed or credited to the believers accounts such that His account now is seen by God as perfectly righteous

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And I think the classic example of what this word means is found in 2nd

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Corinthians 5 21 There we read Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us

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That we might become the righteousness of God in him and so by faith

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Jesus Christ Receives all of the sins all of the guilt all of the punishment of the believer.

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They're credited to his account Such that he bears our sin He dies on the cross bearing our sin and what does he give us in return his perfect righteousness

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And we see in Romans 5 17 that the righteousness of Christ is given as a gift

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To those who will put their trust and hope and faith in him so Sin is imputed to Christ or credited to his account and his righteousness is imputed or credited

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To the believers account the only other place the word imputation is used is when the sin of Adam is

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Imputed to the whole human race. And so that's why we're all conceived in sin.

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We're born sinners and We've been imputed with the sin of Adam and the only hope for those who are born sinners is

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To receive the divine cure and that's available free for the asking because of a love story

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Written in blood on a wooden cross 2 ,000 years ago Yeah, so it goes back to what we're saying earlier, even though Catholics may use some of the same lingo

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They do not mean by those terms what the Bible means by them and Justin if I could just say something else

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You know, we call the Bible We call the gospel good news, but it's really the greatest news.

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Anybody could ever hear yes, and the reason being is because In Roman Catholicism when you commit a sin after you've been justified by your baptism

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That affects your eternal destiny when a born -again Christian commits a sin

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The Bible says that God no longer takes his sin into account because he's become a child of God Romans 4 8

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Paul says blessed is the man whose sin God does not take into account And then we see in 2nd

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Corinthians 5 18 that God is reconciling the world to himself through Jesus Christ Not counting men's sins against them.

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I mean that is the greatest news Of course when you share that with Roman Catholics, I often hear

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Oh, so all you have to do is believe in Jesus then you can continue to sin

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Well, no Titus 2 11 of 14 tells us that the grace that brought us salvation

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Teaches us to say no to ungodliness No to worldly passions and to live a self -controlled upright life

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No, the fact that Christ died for me. I want to live a life pleasing to him I want to turn from my sin and live a

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Christlike life all because of what he did for me Yeah, indeed In Romans 8 1 right

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Paul says there is now therefore no condemnation For those who are in Christ Jesus and and that does not fit within the

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Roman Catholic framework because they're there is still much condemnation within Roman Catholicism because of all these sins that you can commit and still suffer in purgatory if you commit a mortal sin and you lose your

35:34

Status with Christ all all together and yet the scripture could not be clear if you are in Christ There's no condemnation all of your sins judicially speaking.

35:45

All of your sins have been forgiven Well, just like going back to Kathy's testimony my testimony

35:52

We could be be on the treadmill all of our life and have no hope of getting to heaven.

35:57

Yeah, because we never know If we died in a mortal sin or venial sin, by the way

36:04

Where does a venial sin cross over to be mortal? For example, look at stealing

36:10

They say if you steal a small amount, it's a venial sin Well, where does it become mortal right?

36:16

I asked a priest that one time after I left the Catholic Church He said well, that's up to you. You have to decide when it becomes serious enough

36:24

I mean if it's up to me, I'm gonna rationalize I'm gonna say it's a venial sin, right? So a

36:29

Catholic is unsure Yeah, do they have mortal sins or venial sins and it's just really no hope.

36:36

There's no Assurance and but that's why there's no good news in the Catholic Church You can do all of this all of your life.

36:44

Then. What do you expect? Purgatory for an indefinite number of years, right? No, I know and I Sometimes when

36:52

Kathy and I are on road trips will will turn on serious The Catholic Channel and I don't know if you've ever listened to that but but we'll listen to the

37:02

Catholic Channel the Gus Lloyd program and and For one thing we're struck by how crass and vulgar they often are and just it's clear that Maybe not everybody on the

37:15

Catholic Channel, but at least some of the more popular programs You really have to wonder if they really believe what they say they believe because they're so cavalier

37:26

With with their own beliefs and and and Christ himself so cavalier and demeaning nonchalant, but When we listen to them and we listen to their priest

37:39

Gus Lloyd and others and father Who's a guy in New York father? Cardinal Timothy Cardinal Timothy, so we listen to him, you know, and it it's so convoluted

37:54

They're Theological framework with all of the menial and morals venial and moral sins and how you've got to go to mass and you got to do this and you've got to do that and miss it what happens when you miss mass and It's so convoluted.

38:11

It's just this bewildering Gordian knot of Theology and if I was

38:18

Catholic I would never know I would never know where I stood with God Most Catholics don't yeah, there's no assurance.

38:28

There's no comfort. There's this great fear Fear and doubt because all they have is a false.

38:34

Hope That's why it's so important that we reach Catholics, you know right now. They've got a

38:39

Pope Pope Francis Yeah, that not only has said heretical things against the

38:44

Bible, but he goes against historic Roman Catholicism as well Yeah, there's a lot of conservative

38:50

Catholics that are upset with this Pope, I mean he's denied hell exist He said that when a person dies, they just cease to exist

38:59

He also says atheists will make it to heaven as long as they're sincere I mean he says that if Martians landed on the earth and came to the

39:08

Vatican He would baptize them not under not even knowing that Christ had to become a man to save mankind

39:15

He didn't become a man to save Martians, right he doesn't know the

39:20

Bible and so he's Misleading Catholics not only away from the truth of the

39:26

Bible but away from Historic Roman Catholicism. Yeah, and and before we started recording like we were talking

39:33

I said this Pope I've kind of referred to him sometimes as the Joel Osteen of Roman Catholicism because he's just all over the map and he seems to have no theological center at all but according to Roman Catholic doctrine

39:47

The Cardinals get together when they need a new Pope the Cardinals get together and they do their holy huddle and they are directed infallibly

39:58

By the Holy Spirit according to what they teach to select the new Pope So, you know and then they put out the white smoke or the black smoke or whatever to let you know whether or not they've come

40:08

So if the Holy Spirit is directing them infallibly to choose a new Pope how is it that they've got a

40:15

Pope now that directs as You said not only scripture, but even their own Doctrine, how does that work?

40:23

Well, we know it's not the Holy Spirit and I don't say this to offend Roman Catholics But the

40:29

Roman Catholic Church is Satan's greatest counterfeit And I can look through the scriptures and I can show that they are following doctrines of demons

40:38

Just in the doctrine of venial sin goes back to the first lie that Satan gave in the garden

40:44

Remember he told Eve if she broke God's command that she surely would not die

40:49

Well, that's what venial sin is you commit a venial sin. You surely shall not die

40:54

You only go to purgatory And so that was the doctrine of the devil and then you see in first Timothy 4 1 and latter days

41:02

Some will depart from the faith and follow doctrines of demons Paul goes on to name two of them forbidding people to marry

41:08

Yeah, causing them to abstain from certain food Well, the Catholic Church forbids its clergy to marry and then for the longest time on Good Friday you couldn't eat certain food you couldn't eat meat and So, I mean we're saying this through the authority of Scripture that these are doctrines of demons that the

41:27

Catholic Church is practicing And so more than ever we hate we need to rescue

41:32

Roman Catholics out from this Religion that is really under divine condemnation

41:38

And these are precious souls I mean the nature of deception is that people do not know they're deceived

41:43

Until they're confronted with the truth and you and I are truth bearers What hope does any deceived person have unless we present the truth of the gospel to them?

41:54

And many people are dying every day having been deceived and never even aware of it

42:00

Because they haven't been confronted with the truth Absolutely so my

42:08

We began by talking about the Protestant Reformation 504 years ago

42:15

Clearly there was a need for it. Where do we stand today? with this

42:21

Divide supposedly between Roman Catholicism and evangelical, whatever that term means anymore nowadays are are you seeing a

42:31

Kind of a melding back together. Is the is the Reformation still pertinent? Are we still as evangelicals or Protestants?

42:41

Maybe I should say are we still standing strong on the pillars of the Protestant Reformation or do we see a

42:48

Drift back to Rome, you know in a sense or is the Catholic Church getting any help from evangelicals?

42:54

Yeah, they really are and it really breaks my heart because you would think Evangelicals would understand the exclusivity and the purity of the gospel that saved them but we've got many evangelicals that are actually encouraging ecumenical unity with Roman Catholics over the years

43:13

We've seen some unity Accords signed by prominent leading highly visible

43:19

Evangelicals daring to say that we share a common faith in the gospel with Catholics There are evangelicals that even say the

43:27

Reformation was a mistake and right here in our home, Dallas Fort Worth area

43:32

There is a pastor when John Paul the second died He gave this quote in his church magazine that really is very upsetting

43:42

The rift that occurred between Catholics and Protestants 500 years ago is theological pettiness in other words

43:51

This pastor a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary is saying that the reformers

43:57

Were brutally murdered and burned at the stake for theological pettiness He went on to say we'll have plenty of time in heaven to figure out who was right about purgatory and Mary John Paul was a man of God whom all

44:11

Christians should admire thank and emulate And so we have these evangelical pastors and leaders

44:18

That are discouraging Evangelism of Catholics. Let me give you a couple of other quotes

44:25

Pope Benedict when he resigned Robert Jeffers of First Baptist Church in Dallas said this

44:33

The Pope was a wonderful Dedicated Christian man, and we celebrate the ministry.

44:40

He's had Well, I know Robert Jeffers. I've done conferences with him and I immediately

44:46

Emailed him because this was on public TV that he made this announcement, right said

44:51

Robert. How can you Say something that is untrue about Pope Benedict, he said

45:00

Mike whenever I'm in public ministry, I can never bash Catholicism I said that wasn't my question

45:07

You could have told the truth what you chose not to do You could have remained neutral what you chose not to do or you could have misled people by telling everyone that Pope Benedict Was a wonderful dedicated

45:21

Christian man, and we need to celebrate the ministry He had of shutting the gates of heaven to those who wanted to enter with a false and fatal gospel

45:36

If I may I want to say something in support of The allegation that you just heard from Mike Gendron towards Robert Jeffers.

45:43

I have seen this myself From Robert Jeffers. I listened to a sermon that he preached on Roman Catholicism It's probably been it's probably 14 or 15 years old or so.

45:53

And when you listen to that sermon He sounded like Mike Gendron. I mean he was solid against Roman Catholicism He rightly called it a false theological system that has a false gospel that does not save it only condemns

46:09

It does not say he was he was very very clear in his denunciation of the theology of the

46:16

Roman Catholic Church But now he's done a 180 complete flip -flop

46:23

Why what caused that flip -flop? Did he come into a different understanding of Roman Catholicism and or the teaching of Scripture Nope, he did a flip -flop.

46:36

He did a hundred and eighty degree turnabout because he began to be invited by Fox News to come on to their network and be a

46:45

Contributor and so once he got wrapped up in politics and was a regular contributor

46:51

Fox News He had to he had to do 180. Well, he didn't have to but he did

46:57

And so he compromised the truth he compromised the gospel and now millions of people who have seen him on Fox News and have seen him praise the

47:07

Pope and praise Roman Catholicism Shame on Robert Jeffress shame on him.

47:15

Yeah. Well most recently this was a month ago Albert Moeller was interviewing a

47:22

Roman Catholic archbishop by the name of Charles Chaput on his radio program

47:27

And he said Pope Benedict was one of the most brilliant theological minds of our times

47:36

Now now if you're not aware of Pope Benedict before he became Pope He was the cardinal that actually authored the

47:43

Catechism of the Catholic Church. That is so full of heresy It's so full of false gospels false gotten false doctrines

47:51

And so what Al Mohler is saying is the man who is condemned with anathema by Galatians 1 6 to 9 for perverting the gospel of Jesus Christ Al Mohler is calling him one of the most brilliant theological minds of our times

48:09

Unbelievable, and you understand why the average Evangelical does not know if the

48:14

Roman Catholic Church represents a mission field that needs to be evangelized Or if they're brothers and sisters in Christ when we have leading evangelicals

48:24

Distorting the truth like this. It really grieves me. Oh, it does it does

48:30

Mike I've seen other things from Al Mohler that have been enormously troubling what as it relates to Roman Catholicism that I have not yet come across So that's news to me, but that's you say that's recent just in the last few weeks in the last month.

48:44

That is That's inexcusable Well, it is and I actually published the interview in my newsletter

48:52

The October newsletter and anybody that wants to hear the interview and see and listen with their own ears

48:58

You can go to proclaiming the gospel org and look at the October newsletter

49:03

Then there you can hear the whole interview in its entirety, you know Inexcusable Al Mohler knows better.

49:11

I mean he knows better. He knows the chronology, you know

49:18

The most loving thing to do for someone if you see them in theological error

49:25

Significant theological we're in We're not talking here about who you think wrote the book of Hebrews or the date of the

49:31

Exodus You know these issues between Roman Catholicism and biblical Christianity. It's literally

49:37

Literally the difference between heaven and hell The most loving thing to do is to warn people if they're headed to hell to warn them that that they're in spiritual danger and I would say that what

49:50

Al Mohler did and what others do who know better that is That I mean, this is gonna sound harsh, but it's the purest form of hatred that there is it really is right,

50:03

I mean How much do you have to hate somebody to know the truth and not tell them?

50:09

It discourages evangelism of Catholics when you make statements like that Totally and by the way, you mentioned the book contending for the gospel that I wrote the reason

50:18

I wrote it was because There's so many evangelicals Compromising the Gospels today for the sake of ecumenical unity with the

50:26

Roman Catholic Church in fact just recently lifeway research surveyed 1 ,000 senior pastors evangelicals and Protestants and the survey said that two -thirds of these evangelical pastors

50:43

Say Pope Francis is their brother in Christ And more than one -third say they value the

50:49

Pope's view on theology and that he has improved their view of the Catholic Church This is disturbing

50:56

What happened to the Reformation? Are they saying that we should have been united all these years that it was a mistake, right?

51:04

So anyway, that's why I wrote contending for the gospel We need to be aware of these things so that we can take a stand for the truth

51:11

Because what's at stake the gospel of Jesus Christ the salvation of lost people Absolutely.

51:18

Absolutely How many young you know, how many people have given their lives over the centuries to to To defend the truth to get the

51:29

Word of God into the hands of people and as I say that, you know When you look at the history, you might correct me if I'm wrong

51:37

When you look at the history of the Roman Catholic Church its entire history at least at least since You know the

51:47

Middle Ages its entire history is one of doing its dead level best To keep the

51:53

Word of God out of the hands of people. Is that right? All right. In fact at the

51:59

Council of Trent Which is the counter -reformation the Catholic Church had to assemble all of its bishops to counter the

52:06

Reformation And so it was during that council that they put the Bible on the list of forbidden books.

52:13

I Know this is hard to believe but anybody can go to a bookstore a library pick up the

52:19

Doctrines of the Council of Trent look under the list of forbidden books. You'll see the Bible right there And here's the reason

52:26

Justin they knew that these reformers were abiding in God's Word They were learning the truth and the truth was setting them free from the

52:34

Roman Catholic religion So what does the Catholic Church have to do ban the Bible because that's the only way they're going to keep their people and religious bondage and deception

52:45

Yeah, truth was setting them free. Just like the Lord Jesus said in John chapter 8 verses 31 to 32

52:52

Yeah, and you look at 2nd Timothy chapter 2 verses 24 to 26 We're to pray for those in opposition to the gospel that God would grant them repentance

53:01

Leading to a knowledge of the truth So they can escape the snare of the devil who holds them captive to do his will and the most powerful tool

53:10

The devil has to hold people and religious deception is indoctrination Yeah, your wife

53:16

Kathy and myself the same testimony from the time we could think we were indoctrinated

53:23

That the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church. And if you ever leave you'll go to hell That was ingrained in us for all those years

53:31

Right, but it came down to do we trust God and his word more than we trust the teachings of our religion?

53:37

And that's the only thing that sets us free and gives us hope. Yeah, indeed Indeed. Yeah, it speaks volumes

53:45

It really tells you all you need to know about the Roman Catholic Church that they have fought tooth and nail to keep the Word of God out of people's hands because as you said the truth sets people free

53:55

They know that and so they have fought tooth and nail to keep I mean How many how many martyrs can we name that have been killed at the hands of the

54:06

Roman Catholic Church simply because they wanted to Print the Bible in English and get it into the hands of people how many people

54:14

Has a Roman Catholic Church killed for that crime of wanting to get Scripture in the hands of everyday people

54:20

Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the st. Bartholomew Day Massacre. Yep, and during that massacre the

54:28

Streets of Paris were ankle -deep in the blood of Saints the Catholic Church had put to death and that's why

54:36

France is a Non -christian country today all the born -again

54:43

Christians were put to death See the Jesuits were formed at the Council of Trent as well

54:49

And they were formed to put away any opposition to the

54:54

Roman Catholic religion And so they put to death a lot of people that believed in the

54:59

Bible that believed in the gospel Because they didn't want this spreading They wanted to hold people captive and so now you have a

55:07

Jesuit Pope the first Jesuit Pope in the history of the papacy and he's also

55:14

Willing to put to death anyone who stands opposed to the Roman Catholic religion And so we're living in very interesting times

55:22

I believe we're close to the soon return of our Lord Jesus Christ and I look at this as a blessing

55:29

We may be the most blessed generation that's ever lived to be alive when the Lord returns for his church

55:35

And so what we need to do is be about the Lord's business with a sense of urgency We need to share the gospel 1 .3

55:43

billion Roman Catholics need to hear the gospel and come out of that false religion so they can be

55:50

True Christians born again by the Spirit of God by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ Amen, amen

55:59

Mike for and as I ask you this question I even have some people in my mind people

56:04

I've talked to and people I know and I hear this a lot Even for those folks who understand that Roman Catholicism is wrong

56:15

They would say well my mom my dad they're Roman Catholics you know my cousins or whatever that they're

56:23

Roman Catholics and Yeah, they they don't understand the issues, but they love

56:29

Jesus. I just know they love Jesus. They talk about Jesus What would you say to folks who have family members who were

56:38

Roman Catholics who believe? Who would say Yeah, they're Understand that my family members my parents or whatever.

56:46

They're they're wrong on some things But but I just know even though they're kept I know they love Jesus What would you say?

56:53

Can you be a Roman Catholic and be a Real Christian, what would you say to those folks?

57:00

only if you repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, and it's really interesting that you asked that question because We hear that also

57:09

Oh, I know a Catholic who say because I love Jesus and my response is which Jesus do they love right?

57:15

Is it the Eucharistic wafer? that has been Transubstantiated into the physical body and blood soul and divinity of Christ according to the

57:24

Catholic religion Or is it the one who sits at the right hand of the Father interceding for his sins?

57:31

Is it the one who died once for all sin for all time and there's no more offerings for sin.

57:36

Yeah Is it the one that we see in Hebrews 9 28 that he will return a second time and not in relation to sin?

57:44

Now we have to look at the Eucharistic Christ as a false Christ Because by the authority of Scripture, he will return a second time not every day

57:53

And the Bible tells us when he's going to return at the end of the tribulation How he's going to return in the same body he left with Where he's going to return he's going to return to the

58:05

Mount of Olives And how he's going to return with great glory every I will see him

58:10

There'll be no doubt that the Lord Jesus has returned. So by the authority of Scripture We can say the

58:16

Eucharist is a false Christ And Roman Catholics need to know when they bow down and worship that Eucharist They are committing the same sin of idolatry as the

58:26

Israelites did when they worship the golden calf As the true God that delivered them out of Egypt and we know the fate of those

58:33

Israelites God had 3 ,000 put to death and so more than ever Catholics need to come out and worship the true

58:40

Christ Yeah, in fact, that's the kind of worshipper as God seeks in John 4 24

58:45

He seeks worshippers in spirit and in truth so you know our whole ministry is dedicated to Providing resources for people like you've described that want to see their loved ones saved

59:00

We've got seven different gospel tracks and one of them is which Jesus do you trust?

59:07

Because it contrasts the Jesus of Rome with the Jesus of the Bible And there's some very stark differences between the two in my book preparing for eternity.

59:17

It's a great manual for Evangelicals to study so they'll know how to witness to their loved ones, but I also read it wrote it in a way that is

59:27

Something you can give to a Catholic it's written in the spirit of love and truth And I contrast what the

59:34

Bible teaches right alongside What the Catholic Church teaches and they have to they're forced to make a decision

59:40

Should I trust Christ in his word or the teachings and tradition of my religion?

59:46

It's impossible to believe both are diametrically opposed So I would encourage anyone that has loved ones and you're wondering how to reach them

59:54

Remember two things Establish the Word of God as their supreme authority

01:00:00

Over bishops over traditions of the church, right and that's easy to do

01:00:05

I mean the Apostle Paul when he's preaching in the synagogues of Berea He notices his listeners are searching the scriptures to test the veracity of his teaching

01:00:16

If an apostle comes under that scrutiny and he doesn't get offended he commends them for doing this

01:00:22

Should you open your bishop and your priest shouldn't you and I come under that same scrutiny?

01:00:27

Absolutely Absolutely, so we have that and we also have mark 7 where Jesus deals with people

01:00:34

Submitting to traditions rather than the Word of God The apostate Jews were invalidating the

01:00:41

Word of God for the sake of their tradition mark 7 verses 7 to 13 And so establish the

01:00:47

Word of God as the supreme authority And then show that Jesus Christ is the all -sufficient

01:00:53

Savior the Roman Catholic Church Denies the sufficiency of Jesus Christ to his headship of the church

01:01:02

They add a pope to his word. They add their sacred tradition to his finished work on the cross

01:01:08

They add the mass which is performed on an altar to his infinite and an exhaustible merit

01:01:14

They add a treasury of merit that contains the merits of Mary and all the Saints to his purifying blood they had purgatory

01:01:22

To his satisfaction for sin. They have to satisfy their own sin to his high priestly office

01:01:29

They offer the priest and to his role as the only sinless mediator

01:01:35

They had Mary who has said to be another sinless mediator So establish Christ as the all -sufficient

01:01:42

Savior that he is and establish his word as the supreme authority When you do that, you'll want a lot of souls for Christ provided the

01:01:51

Spirit of God is bringing conviction and illumination Amen. Amen The gospel is the power of God and the salvation for everyone who believes for the

01:02:01

Jew first and also to the Greek And also to the Catholic who will put his faith is her faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross

01:02:10

And Justin if I could just say since she triggered my thought One of the miracles that took place when

01:02:16

Jesus gave up his spirit the veil Separating the Holy of Holies from simple man and the

01:02:22

Holy God was ripped open from top to bottom Yes showing that now through faith and the shed blood of Jesus.

01:02:28

We have direct access to God We don't need a priest offering sacrifices anymore.

01:02:35

So the Roman Catholic priesthood is Unnecessary, it's superfluous We now have direct access through the one mediator

01:02:43

Jesus Christ First Timothy 2 5 there is one mediator between God and man the man

01:02:49

Christ Jesus He's God's perfect man and man's perfect God. Amen Amen to that line.

01:02:56

Thank you so very much brother. Thank you so very much Mike where can as we close here?

01:03:02

Where can people go to find out more about you your ministry? I say your ministry.

01:03:08

We understand what I mean by that the ministry to which God has entrusted you Where can they resources?

01:03:15

Where can they go? They can go to our website proclaiming the gospel .org Or they can call us.

01:03:22

Our ministry number is 817 817 -379 -5300

01:03:29

We answer all of our calls we respond to all of our emails And as I mentioned earlier, we have all of our archive newsletters on our website

01:03:38

Along with all the resources. I've written many articles that you can download copy and paste

01:03:44

We want to be there to equip you to encourage you to be faithful witnesses for the

01:03:50

Lord Jesus Christ Not only in the huge missions field represented by the Roman Catholic religion

01:03:55

But we have compassion and love for all those who are perishing And we've got many different resources to help you be faithful witnesses for the

01:04:04

Lord Jesus Christ All right Mike thank you so very much brother and it's good to have you on my channel and Lord willing would love to have you back on well, it's a pleasure and a privilege and thank you so much for the opportunity

01:04:21

To share the gospel through your podcast. May many come to saving faith in the

01:04:27

Lord Jesus for hearing the gospel today Indeed. Thank you, Justin. Thank you,

01:04:32

Mike. Okay, dear ones. Thank you very much for watching this I hope that this was an encouragement for you to you and Equipping for you as well.

01:04:41

And I know many of you watching maybe you are Catholic Maybe you have family members friends loved ones who are

01:04:47

Roman Catholic So I'll encourage you go to Mike gendron's website proclaiming the gospel dot org and a wealth of resources there to So that you will be equipped to speak the truth and love to your

01:04:59

Roman Catholic friends and family members Okay until our next time together May the grace of our