July 21, 2020 Show with Bill Shishko on “What to Do When You Are Abused By Your Husband: A Biblical Perspective”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 21st day of

July 2020.

And I'm thrilled to have back a dear old friend, a friend that I have been able to,

by God's mercy and grace, call my friend since the late 1980s.

And he is Bill Shishko, who is the pastor of The Haven, an Orthodox Presbyterian

Church congregation in Deer Park, Long Island, New York.

And today we are addressing what to do when you are abused by your husband.

This is a book that was written by Pastor Robert Needham, along with

Debbie Pride.

And Bill Shishko will be serving as a spokesperson for the retired

OPC chaplain, Bob Needham, especially since he does have a medical issue

that would likely prevent him from being able to be our guest today.

But it's our honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Bill

Shishko.

It's great to be with you again, Chris.

You said old.

I'm not sure how you meant that.

Well, I know that I'm older than you.

You're older than me, so you could put two and two together there.

Oh, I feel young.

That's good.

You probably feel a lot younger than I do after getting out of the hospital.

Yeah, that's right.

I appreciate that.

Well, as we typically do, before we go into the subject at hand, tell our listeners about The Haven.

Technically, yes.

Great.

And the website is TheHavenLi .com for more details.

TheHavenLi for LongIsland .com.

Well, I also want to make sure that our listeners have our email address in the event that they'd like to

chime in with their own questions.

Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live

outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And I could readily understand a subject matter like this being a

perfect time for people who wish to remain anonymous to send in questions

because of the sensitive nature of what we're discussing.

But if you are just asking a general theological or biblical question about our subject

that has nothing to do with a personal issue, give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Well, the aforementioned Pastor Bob Needham has called the toleration of

domestic abuse the great scandal of the evangelical church.

How is that the case, Pastor Earl?

No, Chris, if you don't mind.

Well, then what, according to Pastor Needham, are the big mistakes that church leaders make when

they learn of domestic abuse within families of the congregations they serve?

These

are

Pastor

Needham's

and mine,

and this

is a

problem of

we'll say things like, well, I just...

And that will be fearful, Pastor.

Well, just finish your thought, because I was going to ask you about the cost involved that Pastor Needham speaks

about.

Yeah, yeah, that's another thing.

The other thing, I'm just dealing...

Well, if a woman has been...

No, I know a woman personally, a very good friend I've known since I was

15 years old, actually.

And her husband, who was at the time a police officer, he abused her really

badly.

In fact, broke her nose while she was six months...

Actually, I think nine months pregnant.

While she was lying on the couch, he kicked her in the face and broke her nose.

And he, among other things, held a gun to her head.

Yeah, yeah, that happens.

And

see,

immediately

when

you

hear

this,

you're

leaving

the wife.

Text Michael back.

Now, a thought occurred to me that I think you should probably clarify.

I'm assuming when you said that the woman, the victim,

should always be believed, I'm assuming you meant initially, because globally,

people were riveted to their TV screens for many weeks when Brett

Kavanaugh, the Supreme Court justice nominee, was being

slandered and vilified by a woman accusing him of molestation, abuse, and rape, and so

on.

And there turned out to be no basis for her charges.

Correct.

And I appreciate the point

accusations had behind them.

As far as the pastors that have had little experience or no experience

counseling abusers, there's got to be pitfalls to be avoided.

What, according to Pastor Needham, who wrote the book we are discussing, are pitfalls they should avoid?

Yeah,

real,

I'd

say

that

would

be,

and

frankly,

it

develops...

Well, we have to go to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Pastor Bill Shishko and more of our discussion on spousal abuse right after

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arntzen.

If you just tuned us in,.

Our guest today is Pastor Bill Shishko of The Haven in Deer Park, Long Island, New York,

currently worshiping in Bohemia, Long Island.

This is a congregation within the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination.

And today we are discussing a book that was written by a dear friend

of Pastor Bill Shishko, a book on a very important subject, What to Do When You

Are Abused by Your Husband, a Biblical Perspective.

And this has been written by Robert Needham and also by Debbie Pride.

And this is obviously something that has life and death connected with it.

And if you have questions of your own, our email address is ChrisArntzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArntzen at gmail .com.

And one of the reasons, a great deal of caution needs to be

had when believing a professing

repentant abuser is the very reason I just mentioned.

This is a life and death situation, or at least it could be.

And what makes it more difficult is something that you just said before.

You said that abusers are notorious masters at acting.

And so what are some of the marks of true repentance in an abuser, according to Pastor Needham and from what you have

seen in your own years as a pastor?

Yeah, great, great.

Perhaps even very rich in the congregation.

Yeah, well, that's, you may have a lot of money, that's tidy.

I mean, you've got to, and frankly, we don't have a lot of resources.

Yes, I've interviewed Chris.

Yeah, I thought you had.

Yeah,

great

gospels

about

a

child

abuse.

Sometimes you're a church insurance company,

especially if you're on that and their

shelters and their shelters to the shelter.

Really?

I think regarded.

Oh, of course.

Yeah, yeah.

How

does

that,

how

does

that,

they're

not

alone,

but

with.

And of course, he might have to leave.

What's that?

And of course, the husband might be the one that has to be evicted, if you will.

Yeah, the problem with that is he knows where

this is.

Oh, that's a very good point.

Yeah.

And, and so in most to be,

and that said, he's sensitive.

There's something abnormal in this house, and it's so abnormal that my wife has

to be a full.

Paul

says

that's

a

grace.

How has your heart?

What a great line.

Oh, yeah, there does come a point.

Children out of

the congregation is

going to

wonder what's going on.

In fact, we're going to pick up right where you left off when we return from our midway break.

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I'm a pharmacist in New York which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows

very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what God has

designed and he has erupted into praise.

In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's

design.

And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to

address this illness which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design.

Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did?

May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like

the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my Nessie Allen 28th edition with a navy

blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather,

making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

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That's solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground -books .com.

And we hope that you bless the lives of many people in your life very soon,

whether it's their birthday, whether it's their anniversary, whether it's a retirement gift,

whether it's a back -to -school gift, whether it's a bereavement gift, whatever it is that you're buying

these gifts for, please go to solid -ground -books .com to purchase them.

And remember, not only purchase books for your Christian loved ones, but also those who are lost

whom you know, they may be the most important ones to purchase gifts for, from solid

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And always remember to mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you place an order.

Before we return to Pastor Bill Shishko to continue our discussion on domestic violence,

we just have a couple of important announcements to make.

I hope as many of you as possible join me, August 28th and 29th, it's a Friday and

Saturday, in Scranton, Pennsylvania, for the Basics of Biblical

Counseling Conference, a conference of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors,

also known as ACBC.

This is going to be held, God willing, at the East Point Baptist Church,

I'm sorry, the High Point Baptist Church, forgive me, High Point Baptist Church in

Larksville, Pennsylvania, which happens to be a congregation planted by the ministry of John MacArthur

and Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California.

The keynote speaker at this conference is Dale Johnson, the Executive Director of

ACBC, and his lectures include The Need for Biblical Counseling, The Definition and

Goal of Biblical Counseling, Progressive Sanctification, Qualifications of a Biblical

Counselor, Secular and Integration Theories, What Makes Biblical Counseling Biblical,

and a Q &A session with the audience.

That's Friday night and all day Saturday until 5 p .m. on the 28th and 29th of August.

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio there, so I hope to see as many

of you there as possible.

For more details, go to biblicalcounseling .com forward slash

Scranton dash PA dash training.

That's biblicalcounseling .com forward slash Scranton, S -C

-R -A -N -T -O -N dash PA dash training.

And if you didn't have time to write that down or wrote it down incorrectly, you can always email me at chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

You ask for that website.

Finally, folks, if you really love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you, please, to

go to ironsherpanzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

If you prefer snail mail, you can mail in a check made out to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio to the address that appears on

your screen when you click support at Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

And I thank God that my dear and benevolent and generous friend, Pastor Bill Shishko,

has done this on quite a number of occasions, along with his precious bride, Margaret.

And I look forward to receiving more checks from him in the future.

And folks, keep in mind that we lost, I'm hoping it's just temporary, but we lost two of the

largest financial supporters of Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio during the pandemic.

Due to the hysteria going on, their businesses were hit very hard.

And we at least temporarily have lost these two supporters.

So please help us make up for that which we lost.

And also, I want to thank all of you who have already been doing that, that you've been sending in your hard -earned money,

not only those who have been loyal to this program for many years, but also new people that I've never heard from before,

including a woman from Austin, Texas, who I never had met or heard from before until

very recently, who broke all records when it comes to donations to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

I hope I get the chance to meet her face -to -face at some point.

But also, folks, if you want to advertise, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we

believe, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com, and put, I need a church, I'm

sorry, and put advertising in the subject line.

That leads me to my next point.

If you don't have a church home, then send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put, I

need a church in the subject line.

I have already helped people all over the world find churches.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet Earth.

I may be able to help you as well.

I have helped quite a number of people who did not know that there were faithful churches right near them,

some of them less than five minutes away, and they were totally oblivious to the fact.

I've helped people find churches that they have visited and joined and become members at, and also those who have visited churches on

vacation and those that have referred these churches to loved ones who are without church homes.

This is a very important thing in the Christian life.

There is no such thing as a lone wolf maverick Christian who is not under the authority of local elders.

So please, if you do not have a church home, send me that email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put, I need a church

in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Bill Shishko about spousal abuse, domestic violence.

The email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And before we go to any listener questions, we were right in the middle of talking about what

cautions should church leaders take in dealing with congregation members who are involved.

Actually, that's not what we were talking about.

We were talking about what the congregation should know and the issue of

informing the congregation about the specific situation involved

when somebody has been removed from their home or a temporary separation has been

mandated because of the danger involved in domestic violence.

Congregation

enough,

the

child

abuse,

the

county

police.

Well, we do have an anonymous listener who asks, I have a close personal friend

who was a Christian recording artist and a very talented one before she got married.

After their marriage, her husband forbid her from being involved

again in recording and even pursuing anything further with her musical

gifts.

Is this something that is truly under the freedom of a husband

as head of the household to mandate?

Or is this just another form of abuse?

And of course, there may be many other similar kinds of things where a husband is unnecessarily

prohibiting and restricting his bride from being involved in

pursuing gifts and other things that are completely lawful and completely pleasing to

God.

Control.

I wouldn't have

signed out if there.

Well, thank you, Anonymous.

And if you are a first -time questioner, send us your full name and mailing address and we

will ship out to you.

Or should I say CVBBS, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS

.com.

They will ship out to you a brand new New American Standard Bible if you are a first -time questioner.

And of course, your name will remain anonymous on the air.

We have Daisy in Raleigh, North Carolina, who says, Hi Chris, glad you're doing better.

Her question is, Does the theological concept of male headship contribute to domestic

abuse in the home?

Now, that's a very interesting question because you and I strongly believe in male headship.

And so basically, the question could also be asked, Can a biblical truth and

even a biblical command be twisted to become wickedness such as domestic violence?

I hear

to another

been

loving his

wife.

It's only the other, he's in the next chapter.

So

a woman

will

sleep

unreasonably.

Great.

We have another question.

Let me see if I can find it.

We have, I just had it right in front of me.

Oh, here it is.

We have Maggie in Plano, Texas.

Hi, Chris and Bill.

Thank you for openly addressing a silent epidemic.

Yeah, exactly what it is.

She's got it exactly right.

I called it a pandemic.

It's kind of the COVID -19 of the ecclesiastical world.

Bill, how would you distinguish between physical and mental or emotional slash spiritual abuse?

And what recourse does a woman have with her church when she is being abused in every way

except physical?

How do we help these women, especially when their husbands do not recognize or acknowledge the

problem?

Yeah, again, abuse is on a spectrum.

And you do have to be careful.

Example,

a

husband

and

wife

have

a

pent

up

angle.

Stomping.

She really does

need

to reach out to

this

happens.

Maybe men will get

violent if they and as

a speaking with.

Okay, we have another question.

This one is from Susan in East Setauket,

Long Island, New York.

And let me find that.

I was just looking at that one as well.

I have received mixed messages from clergymen in the past regarding the

subject.

I was married to an alcoholic and abusive man who literally made my life miserable in every way.

I never got a definitive point of guidance from any of the pastors that I spoke with.

Why do you think this happened?

Susan, well, you're not alone.

Sorry to say, sadly, part of the default.

And this tends to happen.

It's almost getting barbarian like in many ways.

And that carries over the home.

Naive

men

highly

recommend

that

book.

By the way, you said something important to announce in regard to those that wish to remain anonymous.

I typically read these questions for the very first time live.

So if it is your request to remain anonymous, please do not put in the very last sentence of your email,

please keep me anonymous.

Please put that right in the subject line and do not include your name anywhere in the content of the email.

So please just remember that I probably should say that every time I give the anonymous

option for folks.

But please do not just think that I'm reviewing these questions during a live show beforehand.

I'm usually for the first time reading them live.

We have somebody who's actually going to be my guest tomorrow.

Richard Guido, Dick Guido, who's going to be talking about the church versus the state question

mark.

He has a question for you.

Dick from Raleigh, North Carolina.

There are generally three current views of the role of women in the church in the home.

Complementarianism, egalitarianism, and patriarchy.

Does any of these views contribute more towards spousal abuse than the others?

And you have touched on this already, but obviously complementarianism is the view that you and

I hold to that most conservative reformed

churches and conservative evangelicals who believe in the inerrancy

of scripture and so on believe in the complementarian view.

There are some departures from that.

But if you could tell us your thoughts.

Well, I mean,

first of

all, I

know it

will

be

an excellent

answer.

So in

that sense, we're complementarian.

Egalitarian

side of

it is

the

Apostle

Paul

said

there's

egalitarian.

Well, thank you, Dick, and look forward to our discussion tomorrow.

We're going to our final break right now.

It's going to be much more brief than the last ones.

If you have a question, please send it immediately to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence

and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter.

And as I just said before, if you intend or request that we

keep you anonymous, please put that in the subject line so that I

know immediately.

And don't mention your name in any of the body of the email.

Don't just ask me the very last sentence of an email to remain anonymous.

I read these questions typically for the first time live.

But anyway, don't go away.

We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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We are now back with our final section of the program, our final moments with Pastor Bill Shishko

and our discussion on domestic abuse, domestic violence.

Our email address is chrisarnson.

If you have a question, chrisarnson at gmail .com, I would send in the question immediately, or

otherwise we'll be out of time before the opportunity.

Pastor Bill, when should civil law enforcement be called to an abuse

situation, especially since this is a very uncertain

situation?

The woman might not even know for certain if she's going to be a victim of a physical attack.

I'm watching the clock myself, Chris.

A child abuse.

When you have any questions, don't

forget the victim.

That

will

help

you in

counseling.

As far as when to call the police,

obviously you don't want a woman to wait until she's actually hit.

Right.

Yeah, correct.

It's hard to answer the question in the abstract, Chris.

Sometimes a woman has got to get hit for it's terrible.

At that point, there must be.

Kill you.

And the

website

for The Haven, where

Pastor Bill Shishko

pastors,.

Thehavenli .com, thehavenli .com.

Thank you so much for your excellent service to us today, Pastor Bill.

If you could hold on the line, I'd like to book another interview with you.

And I want everybody listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior

than you are a sinner.