A Tale of Two Brothers...

Hey, good evening. This is Truth in Love, and I'm so glad and so thankful that you're able to have an opportunity, some time to spend with me, to watch the video, to listen. However you come across the video, I'm so thankful and really appreciate you being here and spending time with us.

Truth in Love and the Call to Speak the Truth in Love

This is Truth in Love, and I get Truth in Love from Ephesians chapter four, verse 15, where Paul says,. But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into him. Who is the head? Even Christ.

And I want to continue to doing that even tonight. And this is a long awaited period of time, a long awaited video that I wanted to do with a brother, and a brother that I have differences with. And I hope you will enjoy the video.

I hope you will be edified by the video. You'll be encouraged. If somebody, if you do not know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, that's our prayer that you would come to know him as your Lord and Savior.

But I believe this is one of the aspects, of course, that is covered under this verse where Paul says we're to grow up in all aspects into him. And so one of those aspects in our lives is understanding and realizing there are other believers, other Christians that are out there that don't believe like I do, that don't think the same way I do.

But yet we're still brothers and sisters in Christ. We can get along and we can love one another. And we want to grow up in that aspect into him who is the head, even Christ. And so I want to welcome tonight my guest, my brother, John.

And John, if you have, if you'd like to.

Introduce yourself, can you do that for us? Sure, sure. My name is John Jones. I'm a minister inside the Church of God and I'm a member of Real Life Community Church in Iron Station, North Carolina. I've got a lovely wife and four lovely daughters.

And I'm just thankful to be here with Brother Robert. And I hope that we can show that we're more alike than we are different. And if anybody can be led to the Lord in this conversation, then it's profitable.

I'll do.

Anything I can help you. Absolutely, absolutely. I did want to say this too. We like to pray at the end. So if we can pray for you, all you have to do is type me. I'm not, John, are you able to.

See the comments yet? I haven't seen any. I don't know how to work that part. If you're able to get.

It pulled up, that's cool. If not, if we can pray for you, just type me. I'll let John know that you request prayer and we will pray for you at the end. If you watch the video or listen to it later, just send us a message and we'll be glad to pray for you then.

We would love to be able to do that. It'd be an honor and a privilege to do that. So with that being said, the discussion tonight between John and myself is a discussion between brothers. As John said, he is, I'm not going to say that he's representing the church of God.

He's made that clear. He's just a member of that certain denomination and he's going to speak from his experience. I come from a Baptist background and I'm going to speak from my experience. What we want to do first, let's just jump right in, dive in.

What we want to do first is probably what's on everyone's mind. When we think of different denominations, we first think of the differences. And of course, obviously there are differences or there wouldn't be different denominations.

That's pretty obvious, Robert. So what are the differences between John or the church of God and me and the Baptist? We've discussed a little bit prior to this video and we want to discuss with you, share with you some of the things that we've talked about.

When I think of the differences and I'm trying to think in general terms what those differences are and I'm trying to think in terms of perception, what is the perception? So me as a Baptist or me coming from a different denomination, not knowing much about another denomination or the church of God denomination, what is the most common perceptions?

And sometimes those perceptions can be misunderstandings, right? Would you agree with that? Yes, sir. And so I've got down here my notes and I forgot to mention this to you. I think we talked about it earlier, but one of the differences would be if you go into a church of God church or you go into a Baptist church, you're going to see a difference in leadership structure pretty much.

Okay. And from a Baptist perspective, when it comes to leadership, I think it's the more popular view because it's the most recent view and it's been the most popular for a while now. You've got a single pastor and then you've got multiple deacons that serve the church.

As I've grown in scripture and as I've looked back at Baptist history, I've learned that the Bible teaches and Baptists used to follow this form, this leadership structure that the church would have a plurality or multiple elders with one, maybe one teaching head, teaching pastor.

And then the church would have a plurality or multiple deacons who served the church. But the more popular one today is going to be your single pastor with multiple deacons. And the individual Baptist church is autonomous.

So they send out an ad or however they want to advertise. And then the people will send in their resumes and then they will conduct interviews. And the church congregation hires the person they feel is most qualified to lead their church.

And they have no oversight other than that, other than themselves, who they want to be their pastor. So what's the leadership structure like in the church of God?

Church of God and Baptist Leadership Structures

It's a centralized leadership and there's overseers for district, state, and ultimately there's a general overseer over the entire thing. But churches have, there's a voting procedure. For instance, if I were to take a church or inquire to take a church, the easiest way to do it is to go on the church of God's website and pull up, it's called a pastor's blog.

And if there's a church pastor position open for like a senior pastor, it would be on there. And then I would email my resume to the overseer and tell him which church that it's for. And then I would go to that church and typically you preach and then they would vote on you.

And if they wanted you to stay, if the church wanted you to stay, then you could stay. And if the church voted for some other direction, then you didn't get the job. The overseer doesn't appoint pastors so much as he directs them and then the church can vote them one way or another.

But there is an overseer process. I hope that answered your question. In terms of inside the body of the congregation, there's pastors and if the church is large enough, there's usually a pastor's council.

And that would be your deacons, I guess would be what you call them in the Baptist Church. And those pastor's council members are, I want to say that the pastor appoints them, but I believe that there is also in some cases, I think you can vote, but I won't say the pastor appoints his pastor's council.

I've never been a pastor, even though the minutes would say the.

Exact ruling on how that works. Okay. Gotcha. And then I think, did you have anything else to say on leadership? No, I don't think so. Okay. And then continuing on with the differences, I'm thinking about the perception.

I'm thinking about the general perception, thinking about an outsider looking in. Someone would say a difference between a Baptist or Baptist church and the church of God church would be how they view and apply the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

And let's just tackle these one at a time and we don't have to spend a much length of time on them or however much you would like to is fine with me. Just share your thoughts as long as it takes. The first one is healing, the gift of healing.

And we were discussing this one earlier. And so, and I want to make this caveat as well. And I think John agreed with this and it's similar in the church of God, but in the Baptist church, there are so many branches on the tree of Baptist.

And you have different types of Baptist. And even Baptists who go to the same church, you can have folks that have differences in theology. And so when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and this is going to be some larger terms, but I'll define them for us.

You have cessationist and non-cessationist, excuse me. And what a cessationist is, is someone who believes that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased. They stopped with the closing of the canon of scripture and they don't apply to Christians after that.

A non-cessationist of course, would just be the opposite of that, that those or continuationist, someone who believes that the gifts continue and they're available and they're given still through the Holy Spirit to individuals today.

And so I would consider myself to be a cessationist, but I am friends and go to church with people who are Baptists, who are non-cessationist. So there are Baptists who hold different opinions in this area as well.

Typically, I would say, and I think John agrees with me that typically, overall, your Baptists are going to lean more cessationist and your church of God are probably going to lean more non-cessationist or continuationist.

So with healing, and I'm going to give you my perspective on these gifts, and we're starting with healing. So that particular gift, as far as we think about examples in scripture, John and I mentioned a few of these earlier.

You have Jesus, of course, healing people. You have the apostles healing people. You have people touching the hem of Christ's garment. You have people touching a handkerchief of Paul and they were healed.

That particular gift of healing given to an individual to heal someone, I believe has ceased. If in a way it continues, in my opinion, I believe that healing continues in a spiritual type healing. So God can use us in such a way that we can minister to someone and in healing their spirit, if that makes sense, or emotional healing, not necessarily a physical healing.

But I believe that that gift, in my opinion, as a cessationist, that particular gift given to an individual has ceased. And John is going to explain a little bit more about his perspective, but we also talked about how within the charismatic movement, if you're familiar with that language, the church of God, I think would fall under that category of the charismatic movement.

But within the charismatic movement, you have different branches. And on one side of the movement, you have an individual, and I'm going to name his name just because he's the most popular one. You have someone like Benny Hinn, who would be considered a faith healer or someone who would claim to have the gift of healing.

And that's what I would say has ceased. So John, what is your perspective on the gift of healing?

So the way I understand it, there's no one person obtains or is the bearer of a gift. The gifts are the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit owns the gifts. God working through the Holy Spirit may minister through men, but this is a work of God.

At the end of the day, if God heals a man or anybody for that matter of any infirmity or any kind of affliction, it's God who gets the glory. No man would get glory for that. That would be a work of the Holy Spirit through a man.

And that's kind of been my understanding of how even the apostles, how it worked with the apostles, that God worked and moved on men and through men to do these things. It was always God. And every time that a person would come to Paul or Peter and try to worship them or call them some kind of a deity, they would stop them and say, no, no, no, we're just men.

We're just men. This is a work of God. You give glory and honor to God. Don't give it to me. And I think that's always been pretty much the view from the Church of God's platform. And I will say, you said something about it, and I'll back you up on that.

All charismatics are not Church of God, but virtually all Church of God are charismatic. And I say it like this, not all fingers are thumbs, but all thumbs are fingers is kind of the way you would look at it.

You've got people who refer to themselves as Pentecostal or charismatic that in some cases don't even have the right theology. There's a group called Oneness Pentecostals and things like that, that don't even believe in the Trinity.

And we would have zero in common with those people. And other things like Benny Hinn, as you mentioned him, I would love to have a few minutes with Benny Hinn and some oil. And I'd say, if you've got the gift of healing the way you say you do, we need to go to some children's hospitals and let's see some work done.

But stuff like that doesn't happen because I think that far too many of those types of people are trying to get glory and not giving God the glory for the things if God were doing something through them in the first place.

And I say, that's an if. That's an if. I'm not going to trash anybody. That's an if God was moving through Benny Hinn. I haven't ever heard him give God credit for it.

Hmm. That's a large if. Right. And I didn't ask you this previous to the video, and I wouldn't ask you this if I didn't think you were okay with it, but you told me a story.

About your daughter. My daughter. Yeah. Yes, sir. So my daughter was being very difficult growing up when she was younger and she was far behind her twin. I have two sets of twins, and I had taken her to the doctor to see if she was deaf because she wasn't responding at all to verbal commands or as far as that goes, any kind of verbal stimulation, any audio stimulation seemed to affect her at all.

And we took her to what they call an ear, nose and throat doctor, and they determined to a test they give her that she could hear. Now, they weren't able to confirm to what level she could hear, but they could confirm that her ears did in fact work the way they should be working to some degree.

And they set me up with what was referred to as an autism specialist. And the autism specialist was supposed to come to my house and do an evaluation on her to make sure that she didn't fall inside of this autism spectrum, because according to the charts and where she was in the doctor's point of view, that was the next logical step because she was not on.

She was not on the track for someone her age. She appeared to be having developmental issues, and I would have concurred she had some form of developmental issues. Now, I will say, I am not an autism specialist.

I don't know the first thing about autism. I've said it from behind the pulpit. I don't know where he stays, what he eats, where he went to school. I don't know the first thing about autism. But I told my pastor that night, I was going to a day store in Lincoln, and I told him that I wanted to pray for, and I wanted him to pray for with me.

And we did that very thing. And the next day, the next day, a child who hadn't ever really spoken, started to talk and play with their sisters. And that child was a different child the next day. I mean, when I mean 180 degree turn, you will never convince me.

You'll never convince me that God didn't move and work on her behalf. And I say it that way on purpose. God moved on her in that regard. See, God created her. God has final say. If God would have said, this is the way it's going to be, and you're just going to have to learn to deal with it, then I would have said amen, and we could learn how to deal with it.

But God stepped in. Do I think that that always happens? No. And sadly, my mother-in-law, who was one of the ones who prayed with her, we had to bury her. She had complications called ALS. And she was a believer.

She was actually a Baptist who started coming to our church. And she believed in the power of God and healing God. And while she went to the grave, ALS didn't win. You know, she still got the victory.

And so I don't believe that God heals everybody. But to say that God heals nobody, I don't believe that either, because I've seen it. I've seen it. And I'll hang on to what I've saw. And He's good. Even if He hadn't, He would still be good.

He's not good because of that. He's good regardless. And I don't ever have any trouble bragging on God. Anytime anybody wants to ask me to testify about something, God's been good to me my whole life.

My whole life, God's been good to me.

Amen. And what do we say to that? Praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord. And so a cessationist believes in miracles and believes that miracles still happen. If we didn't believe that miracles still happen, then we would say that God wasn't saving people. So I'm right there with you.

That's a praise the Lord story. And we thank God for what He did in your daughter's life. So that's fantastic. It's wonderful. Praise the Lord for that. So the next one is prophecy, the gift of prophecy.

Prophecy as Foretelling and Forth-Telling

And so as a Baptist cessationist, what I would say is that that gift ended at the close of the canon. God revealed Himself through His word, and then He closed the book, and that's how He reveals Himself.

The prophecy that we are most familiar with is the telling of the future. This is going to be a sign of the Messiah. This is going to be a sign of the end times. This is what's coming in the future. So normally when we think of prophecy, we think of what's coming in the future.

And that type of prophecy, I believe as a Baptist cessationist, ended with the close of the canon, close of scripture. If prophecy continues, which I think it does, I think it continues in this form, that instead of foretelling, telling the future or what's going to happen, or what people need to do in their life, or sharing some kind of prophecy of something unknown to someone that they didn't know before, instead of foretelling, I believe prophecy today is what pastors do every Sunday morning, which is foretelling.

Instead of foretelling, it'd be forth telling. And so we foretell, we proclaim, we say what God has said in His word as we preach it. And so that would be my perspective as a Baptist cessationist. So what's your perspective on the gift of prophecy?

Well, the way I understand prophecy is largely the way that you just described it. Most of the time, whenever I hear somebody use the term prophecy, it's not in a, and I'm just taking notes here when you said something, so I don't forget a way to put it, it's not always looking at things as a futuristic standpoint, so much as it's what I've heard referred to by John Calvin, no less, as a supernatural illumination of scripture by the work of the Holy Spirit.

And that would be where God reveals to us the truth in His word. And for all intents and purposes, that is a miracle. That is a work of the Holy Spirit, which if that's not still happening, then scripture itself wouldn't have any power to it.

So one thing that I will say that I have I have seen and been a part of, have you ever heard of the term reading someone's mail?

I think so. Okay. So is that. Maybe with another word that you would use would be discernment.

Or discerning? That's kind of, I think the way that I would have read it in scripture, Paul would say that I perceive, the way I see it, this is what's going on. And there's been times in dealing with people on the street and one-on-one encounters where, you know, you don't really, I've never heard God audibly, you know, in this regard, but I have been at times maybe acutely aware of their body language or something and realized that we're stepping on a really sensitive, I perceive that this is a sensitive topic.

And I won't use any names in this encounter because I have absolutely zero idea who watches or listens in the long run. And I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone. So one day I was passing out tracks and I was around the corner of Lincolnton and there was some younger gentlemen sitting at some iron tables and chairs that was outside of a, it used to be a bakery.

I think it's called something else now. Well, it's where graffitis used to be, you know, Lincolnton area. There used to be a bakery there and there were some chairs outside. And as I was beginning to share the law and the gospel with this man and give him one of Ray Comfort's tracks here, and one of these, I was talking to him.

I really felt impressed. This man was a, what they call a closet homosexual. Is that the right terminology for that? One who was homosexual in practice, but not out in the open telling everybody about it because we were dealing with lust.

You know how you get to that part where if you follow the Ray Comfort train of thought, it gets to the part where he started to sort of shake and carry on. And I noticed some tattoos that he had on his hand and I said, I probably better watch how I approach this fella on this regard.

And of course, I never had any kind of confirmation about that, but at the same time, I did deal with him somewhat differently. I didn't ask him in front of his friend about his relationship with women or anything like that.

I left that alone in that condition. And I just didn't feel peace about going that route with him. So instead I went a different route with him, still using the law and still using the gospel in conjunction with one another.

But if that's what you're talking about, then I've seen that work, but I don't know that I would refer to that as prophecy. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'll follow you. But I have heard of people who are told something spot on exactly what they were dealing with at the time at home and no way that man knew it other than God sharing with that individual exactly what they were going through.

And then coming up and just saying those words to them completely shattered all kinds of bondage and change. And again, that's a work that God does through people, but that's not a work that any one man or gift that any one man obtains on his own doing.

That is something that God does through a man for God's glory and for our benefit. So as far as prophecy, but 99 .9 of all of it that I've ever heard is what you're talking about, a foretelling. I want to write that down.

I don't want to misspeak that and put words in your mouth. I want to ask a question. I'm fully aware of the canon of scripture law and I see in all those. I've heard you refer twice now to these gifts stopping at the close of the canon.

And I'm just sort of curious as to the mindset behind that is man closed the canon of scripture, right? Because there were disagreement on some of the books that went in the Bible, there were a couple of different councils on that.

I don't know. I'm not an authority on the canon scripture and how it came to be, but I do know that there was some disagreement on, for instance, book of revelation was not originally added, then it was added later.

Is that right? I'll have to look into that one.

There was one council that didn't want to add it and one council did add it and they wound up sticking with the latter. Right. Because I think it was the council of Hippo. That's how I remember it. That's because it was in Africa where that council met.

That seconded it. There was a a majority rule on that. There was two out of three people agreed to keep the book of revelation in the scripture canon. So therefore it stayed in my very limited understanding of it.

Very,.

Very limited understanding of it. I'm just as limited as well on my understanding of it. My understanding, and I think this may address a little bit of your question. My understanding of the situation is those councils that compiled the scriptures, of course, the Old Testament was already compiled and they knew what it was.

That's what they read and referenced. But compiling the New Testament and putting it with the Old Testament, those councils weren't in charge really of that process. What was going on a lot of times was people were falsifying documents, claiming to have letters from Paul or signing Paul's name.

There were a lot of forgeries. And so there had to be this authentication of which books were inspired by God, which books had the authorship of the Holy Spirit. And that's what they did was they looked at the books that, of course, didn't contradict each other, that seemed to have the Holy Spirit as their author.

And I'm not describing that nowhere near well enough, but they weren't picking and choosing which books to put and when and how to close. It was, you've got all these forgeries. We need to, once for all, say these are the books from God because they're authored by the Holy Spirit.

And these others are forgeries because they contradict the theology that's in these other books. So it's more of an identification of which books the Holy Spirit authored. And that's my perspective. I don't know if that answers your question.

Yeah, it does to some degree, I suppose. I just know that so that I could be clear whenever you say because of the close of canon of Scripture, you're not saying that because man closed the Scripture, you're saying that God had already ceased the gifts as the apostles used before that happened.

Is that my misunderstanding still?

Can you repeat that?

So let me think how to put this. The close of Scripture canon was long after the apostolistic age, right? I can't even tell. Long after the age of the apostles had ended was before the Scripture canon closed.

Am I correct in saying that? I don't know the time frame, but I got to imagine it was long after Paul had already been healed up. So you're saying that as a cessationist, your point is that you believe that the giftings of the Holy Spirit ceased long before the actual close of this canon.

That the closing of the canon isn't what caused them to cease, but rather that they died off when the last apostle died off. Is that the best way to.

Word that maybe? Yes, and I think I know exactly what you're talking about and where I'm being unclear. So the close of the canon is not when, say, the councils compiled it and put it in a leather binder.

That wasn't the close of the canon. The close of the canon is when God finished inspiring through the Holy Spirit authors to write down books. I got you. I got.

You. I would agree more with you. I was going to ask why the close of the canon had something to do with the ceasing of, from the Baptist point of view, the ceasing of the work. Now I get what you're saying.

That this is not, from the cessationist point of view, not that you, as you said before, you don't speak for all cessationists, but from a cessationist point of view, the way you understand it is that the gifts had stopped long before the canon of Scripture was solidified and that the solidification of the canon was more to discredit any fraudulent books that had been penned since those times.

Am I understanding more correctly now?

I would say that would be my understanding. Not that my understanding is.

Completely correct either. I'm going to check this one off as an answered question then. If you see me moving, I don't have ants in my pants. I got my notebook. My desk is too full right now. I've got my notebook that I'm taking notes in sitting over here to the side.

Gotcha. All right. So are you ready to move on? Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So we went through healing, prophecy, and tongues. And this one isn't really, if you were to look up a list in Scripture, I called it revelation.

And like I said, in the Baptist church, you have cessationists and you also have non-cessationists. But I would say generally, overall, from my understanding, Baptists have always been known as people of the book.

And so in print or in theology or doctrine or creed, whatever you want to say, generally, the Baptist would say the Bible's all we need. However, it's become a practice more regularly that even though generally a Baptist would say that the Bible's all we need, they still continue to or have adopted certain languages, such as God showed me a sign or God, the Spirit led me or the Spirit, God spoke to me.

They're using that type of language. So what they would have done on paper as their doctrine or creed doesn't always match up with the language that they're using. God showed me a sign. The Holy Spirit led me.

God spoke to me. He spoke to my heart. I felt this in my heart. You understand the language that I'm using?

I understand the language that you're using. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

And so there's kind of a contradiction there in the Baptist, in my opinion, in the Baptist world today, where this is what we have on paper, but this is the kind of the language that we use. And so from my perspective as a Baptist cessationist, I try to tread carefully in using that type of language, because if this is what I believe on paper, that God has spoken through his word.

And that's where if I want to, I've heard some pastors say this, if I want to hear God speak to me audibly, I read the Bible out loud.

I've heard that too.

So if, and that's kind of the, you know, it's a joke, but it's kind of the perspective. That's what we, or I believe that the Bible is all we need. All we have is, and I think I even heard you quote this verse, it's all we need for life and godliness.

God has brought everything we need for life and godliness in his word. And he, when he finished inspiring the last book, he finished or ceased speaking, communicating in any way other than through his word.

Now does, with this caveat, does the Holy Spirit sanctify us and grow us and teach us? Does he, are things appointed in, so that things work out according to God's will? Absolutely. Are those things mysterious?

Yes. Are we to be seeking that? I don't think so. I think what I can do in my theology, my understanding is I can, you know, let's say that I was in your situation and I'm John, say I'm John Jones, and my daughter went through this situation.

Looking back at the situation, I can see where God moved. I can see where God led us to this certain, you know, this isn't really details of your specific situation, but just a general type situation.

I can see where God closed this door and led me to this doctor. But as far as looking for those signs, that's where, in my perspective, as a Baptist cessationist, from my perspective, if you begin to look for those things prior to, you're moving into what, you know, the scripture teaches us to avoid, which is mysticism, you know, casting lots, tarot cards.

You know, it's, of course, when somebody says tarot cards or palm reading or fortune telling, when you hear those words, you automatically say, yeah, those things are evil. But from my, just my perspective, the way I see it, when we try to figure things out prior to them happening, looking for signs, that's kind of what you're doing with a palm or a tarot card.

And so that's my perspective and understanding of that situation. So if I want to, if I want the Holy Spirit to teach me, if I want to hear from God, I'm staying directly with his word instead of looking for or listening for an inward or outside source.

And so what, and of course, you know, I think there's going to be Baptists that may hold different perspectives and that's okay. That's just going to be from my personal experience and perspective. And this is where I think we would differ as, in general, in as churches, this is where we would differ probably the most, because I think that the Church of God members probably use similar language as what I was giving an example of earlier.

And I think a popular word is unction. The Holy Spirit gives an unction. And so the, I think Baptists today, even though I think it contradicts what they have on paper, they use that language, which is similar to what I think, my perspective, I think the Church of God probably uses that type of language as well, but the Church of God applies that more.

And so correct me if I'm wrong, share with me your perspective. What do you think?

Well, I've never heard of anybody in the Church of God using anything like any tarot cards or anything like that. There's absolutely zero of that. Those things, the way I understand, those are of the devil.

That's soothsaying. I tried to take some notes, but I missed some things. As you were saying, I don't write nearly fast enough. And now that I've written it, I can't hardly read it. This little section, I guess you called it, Is God Still Speaking?

The Holy Spirit, as far as I understand, has a twofold mission in this earth, and that is to lead people to Christ and testify of Christ. So He leads sinners to Christ by way of conviction. And once someone is saved, He leads us in all truth, Christ, of course, being truth.

So whenever you read Scripture, that illumination of Scripture is a work of the Holy Spirit. And to me, that is a form of communication. When you talk about the Bible and understanding Scripture, God's still speaking through Scripture a hundred times out of a hundred, as are you listening, is the biggest part there.

So I would say that God does still speak to people. Now, I think that God speaks to people every morning. They get up, and I hear a lot of preachers say, and like you say, some of them are Baptists, some of them are Pentecostal.

They'll say, well, God told me this, and I get kind of weary about that because, you know, in the grand scheme of things, and I done this the other day when we was talking, and you're talking about, in most of recorded history, God spoke enough to that we set aside that book for things that we understand that He did say for certain.

Now, Scripture does say that if all the things that God said and done, the books of the world wouldn't contain it. I still do believe that God gives, what do you call this, revelation? Is that what you refer to this as?