Jeff Ott: Lutheran, Sober, and Bar Owner? DMW#227

Dead Men Walking

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Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location,

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Dead Men Walking starts now. I'll turn you up there a little bit, check, check, one, two, hey guys, what's going on?

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Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking podcast. Ephesians 2, once dead in our trespasses but now alive in Christ.

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Go check us out at dmwpodcast .com. You can find our snarky merch we got there. We got some fun t -shirts, the

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Wynum, Dynum, Romans, Nynum, that's selling pretty well. How about you shut up and let that be your wisdom, Job 13 .5,

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sometimes you got to quote the scripture to the pagans. But we got lots of stuff on there and it's selling and it helps support the show.

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So dmwpodcast .com, you can check us out there. But first at the top of the show, we'd like to mention our sponsors, Jacob's Supply, Temperance Michigan, love this brother in the

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Lord, I mean, summer's in full swing, the projects are started. I don't care if you're in construction, if you're doing home projects, you got to go check this guy out.

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I mean, he's got 30, 40, 50 % off building supplies, building products.

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And I mean, they're all named brand. He's got appliances, metal roofing, barns, decking, you name it, he's got it and you're going to pay 30, 40, 50 % cheaper than Home Depot, Menards or Lowe's.

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We've got guys come in 10, 12, I think 12 and a half hours was the farthest when I was in the store a couple of weeks ago, he drove up 12 hours, but they ship nationally too.

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You can check them out at jacobsupply .com or call them at 734 -224 -0978, Jacob's Supply.

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Make sure you support this brother in the Lord. Cool. Now that we got the business out of the way, if you're watching this, you're going, who's this guy sitting next to Greg?

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We have someone in studio today. It's not over the old interwebs. And I always love in studio because it's just a little more personable.

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The conversation flows a little easier, but I'm excited to have you, Jeff Ott. Is it Ott? Is that how we say it?

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OTT. OTT. Ott, right? OTT. OTT. OTT. Jeff Ott. He's a local business owner, Little Brown Jug, maybe

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Michigan. And I love their signs in maybe Michigan. Maybe you'll be back. Yeah. Maybe you'll be back.

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It's like leaving maybe, I think. Yeah. A lot of play on words there. M -A -Y -B -E. That's the only difference is there's two

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E's in maybe, but yeah, we play on that all the time. That's cool. So yeah, just happened to reach out to him.

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We've crossed paths many times over the years. Me doing my thing in real estate and county commissioner.

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Are you doing your stuff in chamber and business owner? And I was like, I got to have you on just because it's always interesting to talk to believers in the business world, especially with, you know, we were just talking offline for a few minutes with business owners going through COVID and that debacle.

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And then just how our worldview is really shaped as entrepreneurs and business owners and how we treat employees and what we do for them and how we treat our clients and customers.

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And I just find that all interesting. But before we get into that, give us a little bio on yourself so the listeners know a little bit about you,

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Jeff. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for being, thanks for letting me be here, Greg. Yeah. It's super cool to be in this undisclosed location.

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My name is - It's, I got to change it. It's in temperance. We've been going four years, dude. Everyone knows now.

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It's like I talk about it. I got a big mouth. I told you I should have taken a helicopter. I better get on time. I'm a believer in Christ.

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He's, he's, I was, I was, I was blessed to be born and raised in a, in a, in a, in a believing household.

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My parents got divorced when I was about 12. World kind of slipped there and we kind of did my own.

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It was a really bad age because I was starting to get into my own, my own will, trying to take my own will when you're 13 years old thinking you're, so I'm a,

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I'm a believer now. I, I, I've always been a believer. I've been at the Little Brown Jug for 23 years, 10 years last, last month,

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May, May, 2014, I bought the restaurant. Oh, so you worked there first? 13 years.

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All the way through college. Oh my gosh. I didn't realize that. Started there when I was a senior in high school. Wow. I don't know your story. Worked, I worked for the old man for 13 years and he treated me like family.

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He really did. Now, now I treat him like family. Right. It was a good thing. It was, it was a good, we loved the village of Mabee.

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I love that restaurant and it's just worked every, every, every where I went in life to the

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Little Brown Jug has been there. I did have to leave. I left in 2013 and I went a suit and tie job for U .S.

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Foods. I was a territory manager there. That was the opportunity for me to come by the restaurant. Okay. So I had to leave and notice, you know, how much

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I did there. I would imagine. Yeah. Was that like food distribution? Like a Cisco or something like that? Exactly. Kind of like that.

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Okay. At the time U .S. Foods was the nation's leading food distributor for commercial, commercial businesses.

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Okay. Now Cisco has taken over, maybe Gordon's. I'm not sure. Good company to work for and a good way to get out of the business.

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It really taught me one thing, I can probably do my job and be at home with my family at night. Yeah. At that time

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I didn't have a family. Now I have an eight -year -old little girl and a six -year -old little girl. Awesome. My six -year -old special needs, which is a whole awesome new dynamic in my life, which is really special.

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But now being at that corporate level, I figured out that I can do my job and still go home at night and let the other employees do it.

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So that's basically what I'm doing now at the restaurant is I'm still home with my family. So do you though?

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Do you have a pretty good home life being a small business owner, especially in the restaurant bar space, which seems like it's just super demanding and taxing?

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I'm blessed with staff members that have been there the entire time before I was the owner, soon after I was the owner.

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Even employees that I have a couple new employees, like three, six months, they just get our feel there.

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Yeah. We're self -managed there. The employees are self -managed there. There's nobody breathing down their back. Very similar to what the

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Little Brown Jug was 24 years ago when I started there. Good employees that are willing to manage themselves and do a good job.

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That's really all we can... There's times where I have this cook, I'm like, man, if I could spend like six

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Fridays with that cook, I bet you that person would turn around and do a good job. Unfortunately, if I have to be there for six weeks in a row showing an employee how to do something, that seventh week when

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I leave, typically that employee is just going to do whatever they want anyway. There's a balance there.

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When I bought the restaurant, again, 10 years ago, it was me and my wife and we made a decision together. I knew we had to move back to Monroe, which is one of the best decisions, again,

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I've made. Where are we coming from? Livonia. Livonia, yeah. Monroe, Ypsilanti for school, to Mabee.

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I moved my girlfriend, my wife now, into Mabee, met her at Eastern, and then we moved to Canton, where she's originally from, and then we bought a house in Livonia, still traveling to Mabee every single six, seven days a week.

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Wow. That's a drive. It was a drive. It's two hours to your shift every day. You took your girlfriend, now wife, from Canton to Mabee.

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Well, from, yeah. She was living in the Canton area, and I moved her above the jug at the little two -bathroom apartment.

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All right, so for those listening who are going, hey, guy, I'm in Texas here, I don't know what you're talking about, or I'm in Albania, which

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I don't know how we got in the top 100 in Albania, that was pretty interesting last week. Yeah, so Mabee's a very small part, small, is it a village?

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Farming, a farming village. Farming village in Monroe County in Michigan, Canton's a little bit bigger,

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Livonia's a little bit bigger, not as big as like a Detroit or Grand Rapids, but you know, city and things like that. So that's why

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I say that for the listeners. You came to a farming community, which is also the charm of the

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Little Brown Jug. It has been a staple in Monroe County for years and years and years. If you go Google it, you'll find reviews going back decades.

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You'll find it on blogs, people going, top five places you got to visit. You know, it'll be like a national park,

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Little Brown Jug, and you're like, how'd that get on the list? You know what I mean? We're incredibly blessed. We do a lot of things right there.

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Like the River Raisin Battlefield, this bar in a farming village in the middle of the county. And you're like, oh, so there's like a history there too, that was probably a little bit,

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I would imagine, I won't put words in your mouth, but taking on that kind of mantle of the history of it and then going, how do I improve this?

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How do we, you know, continue it, make it better? Which I think you've done. I feel like we have again with our staff and we, you know, one thing we really, it's about the community.

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We're blessed, like the people that don't know, we're blessed with like six surrounding communities around that little village within 10 miles.

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So we get the Carletons, the Milans, the Monroe, Milans, Ida's, all those, they just come to maybe, and we do a lot of stuff.

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Well, if people didn't know where this undisclosed location was now, they do now, we just named everything around us. Right here.

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No, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. So I left, went to US Foods, came back and bought the business, married my wife, culinary arts at Monroe County Community College.

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I did. Which they have a great culinary. It was a great, unfortunately, that's cool. It's no more. It's no more.

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But in the past it was. Chef Kevin and Chef Vicky were top shelf. They were good people. Really good program, got a bachelor's in restaurant or hospitality management at Eastern where I met my wife.

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So I want to touch on something really quick, if you don't mind. So if people who've listened for a while, they know I've got a little touch of probably jumping around in the head, a little

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ADHD or something, or maybe my wife goes, you don't have ADHD. You're just selfish and want to talk about what's in your, in your head.

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You know, I'm like, well, okay, maybe that too. I'll work on it. But something you said earlier about the culture too, you kind of said, oh, we got a really good kind of feeling or vibe or culture.

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I mean, I don't want to just like kind of pass over that. That has to be created though in a business. Like you can't, can't just, someone just doesn't go, oh, we just got this great culture and it just happened.

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Right. Doesn't it have to be maintained and nurtured and massaged? And can you talk a little bit about that as a believer and a

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Christian and going, oh, we got this great culture. Well, what are the things that you did to go, hey, people come in and go. I want to work here because also we can talk about this.

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There's a whole generation of people, whole group of people that don't want to work and don't want to work hard. They have no work ethic.

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I don't want to say no, but lack of work ethic. And I don't want to be the old man on the podcast saying the next, I mean, it's my generation too.

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I know guys in their forties that don't want to work. I say it to older guys, even in their fifties and sixties, they've seen this young generation come into the workforce and they're not, they're not great employees.

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They don't have good work ethic. They're not on time. There's a multitude of things. We're not going to bad mouth people here, but unfortunately the older, the fifties to forties and the fifties and sixties year olds, they're sitting there looking at these guys with no repercussions.

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Yeah. And they're like, well, why the heck am I sitting here doing all the hard work? And now they're getting smart, not getting smart, but getting smart on being lazy.

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And I'm seeing it in a whole different angle with the 40, 56 year olds. Okay. The culture. Um, we, we, we, we had like a catchphrase, uh, they had a catchphrase in the seventies and eighties.

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It said, we're a little brown jug where friends go to make friends or something like that. And then when

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I bought the restaurant, I didn't know what I was doing when I originally did it, but I caught, I coined the term the friendliest place in town.

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And I looked around, it was like next door lounge, silver star. I was looking at a couple of other places, I'll get down and maybe we can be the friendliest place.

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I put that on the menus. I put that on the website and I give it to every new employee and every single employee. It's almost, almost overnight, even 10 years ago, it turned into a call of action to where we're saying, okay, so we're okay.

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Crap. We're the friendliest place in town. So the branding became your mission statement to that now we got to act like the friendliest place in town.

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Seriously. A bunch of liars. Well, yeah. And that's the thing. So, so we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're happy when we're working and that's, and that's what

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Christ tells us to do. We're not going to supposed to go around being grumpy and kicking, kicking fryer baskets and things like that.

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It's about being a happy chef. I always said a happy chef makes happy food. You know, you can tell the, you can tell the, the mentality or the, or the, uh, the attitude of the kitchen when you get your plate to dining room.

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So again, long -term staff taking care of them. I hate this term taking care of them like family, but I really do.

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I have to be careful. I, I have a tendency to be too personal with folks, maybe get into things that where it's none of my business, um, but I'm there for my staff as well.

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Um, they know me as, you know, as an alcoholic, but a sober alcoholic, right? And that right there is, is massive in a kitchen setting where, where, where drugs and alcohol are just rampant.

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And it's just an industry, you know, people that work night shifts and that are serving drinks all day when they're done, they get toasted.

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And just like I did for a majority of my adult life. So having that as a man of faith, as being an addict myself, cause

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I had a big problem with opiates. I got 13 years off opiates there. Praise God. Yeah. By the grace of God.

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Um, um, so I think I bring something like that. I have, I have a healthy marriage with, with kids that are, that are in school that we go to church.

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So I, I, I, I, I'm there for my, for my, for my staff and in different ways.

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And I feel like we pay a fair share price too, right? We can, we can, I shouldn't say this, but we overlook some things because again, everybody has, everybody has positives and negatives.

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Everybody has positive things they're doing in their life and everybody has, okay, this person, obviously they're going to be late, late, late, but it's one of the best servers

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I have. How are we going to turn it around? Right. Help them. It's not just about the little brown jug and being here at four 30.

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If you find ways to be on time in your life, your life is going to get easier. And that's kind of what the little brown jug is.

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We're not just trying to get through to shift. We're trying to get better. Yeah. We're trying to get better today than we were yesterday.

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Yeah. It's hard to find groups. That's why I have an AA. You know, they come to those meetings. I was at the shelter this morning, that's my home group.

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And it's hard to sit or it's, it's hard to find another organization or another group of people that said like, listen, yeah, this weekend

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I was short with my wife and I got to be better about that. I'm going to do better today to not growl at my wife when

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I get home. A lot of people like, well, my wife didn't do the debt or she didn't do this and do this. That's why

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I growled at her. We try to do the same thing at the restaurant, not an AA meeting course, but the same thing.

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Let's do better today than we did yesterday. And then if we make it smaller,

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I think it's easier. So we got a good feeling and we got a lot of good repeat customers. A lot of folks in the community that we've helped in a lot of different ways.

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And I think that has like a, it just has a really good feeling even in the building when you walk in.

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No, I, like I said, I haven't been out there in a while, but now, now that we're talking about it, I'm going to have to get back out there and visit.

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But I would say too, just as a business owner or manager or even influencer in your place of business, if you're, you know, project managing or, or, or touching other employees in some way, there's some discernment that needs to be there.

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So someone who's late all the time, like you were saying, doesn't mean they can't get ready fast. It usually means there's something else going on in their life where there's a deeper issue of unorganized or, or maybe some, you know, emotional or mental problems going on to where that's why they're habitually late.

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And it takes a little discernment. Now there's a, I think like you said, there's, there's a line that you, that you don't want to cross personal line.

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But at the same time, having that wisdom and discernment to go, okay, how can we help this person to help themselves in kind of looking past just the action of being late?

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That's just one example. I think that makes a really good owner, an entrepreneur, a team leader. I think it's biblical.

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You know, I have my Bible open to Proverbs 21. I was just reading through it a few days ago. One of the best pieces of advice my father ever gave me was, hey, there's 31

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Psalms and 31 days in the month. Read a, or not Psalms, Proverbs, read a proverb a day. And there's so many things in there that you can relate to business to where you draw out of that and you go, oh, that's where I can use that, that kind of wisdom or knowledge or discernment.

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And I think that really makes the difference when you, when you own a business or when you're an entrepreneur. That's what we like to talk about here too.

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The worldview, a believer's worldview is, is vastly different from the secular's worldview.

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And I would argue even the secular's worldview of a successful entrepreneur is borrowed heavily from the

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Christian worldview. I believe so. Right. You read like rich dad, poor dad, right? I don't know. It's a classic book.

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And in the book he says, I didn't understand this. He goes, but the rich dad told me the more I give away, the more

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I get. And he goes, I don't know. I don't know. And he goes in, in the author of that book, isn't a believer. And he goes to this day,

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I don't understand it, but the more generous you are with your money and your time seem to gain more. And I go, well, you know, biblical concept of reaping what you sow, what, what you, you will reap, what you put into the ground, it will come to fruition.

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Right. And so I look at it and I go, I can take almost every successful secular business person or entrepreneur and see where they have borrowed biblical principles from.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. Anything good from Christ. Yeah. Anything good here is from Christ. So if they're doing anything good, whether they know it or not, it's from God.

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No, absolutely. I, I, I've been, I've been blessed with so much of God's grace myself that again,

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I can't, I can't do anything. The most Christ -like thing I can do is share his grace that he shared with me with the people around me.

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Amen. And, and, and, and you can't be, you know, you can't be a, a, a, a, a hitching post where people just kick you all the time and you're just, you're, you're, you're getting bullied or anything.

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You still have to stand up for yourself at a certain point, that person, you know, we don't want to get too personal why that person's late, but we, we, at a certain point, if it's affecting business and your, and your employees, yeah, it's not going to work out.

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So you still have to put your foot down, but in a Christ -like manner, we have, we have a representation of a man that Christ wasn't a,

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Jesus wasn't a business owner, but he walked this earth and he dealt with difficult people and all our lives, no matter if you're going

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I don't know what union was in as a carpenter, he might've been his own union. That's what I'm saying.

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You know, I don't know. He could, he could have been, I would think it was a one -offs and a custom orders back then.

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Yeah. You know what I mean? Kind of a business owner. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Let me ask you something though. And let me know if it's, it's getting too personal, but I'm always intrigued by this because you said a recovering alcoholic.

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I know, I think we both know Joe Bellino too, who's our state Senator. I always find that interesting because he's recovering and then owned a liquor store.

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You owned a bar. How does that work? You're a believer. You own a bar and look at, if anyone's listened, listen for any amount of time, they know.

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I take the stance that the Lord gives us sharp objects to play with tobacco, beer, sex.

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All these things are very sharp objects. They're things that are to ultimately glorify God and can be misused.

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So you know, on this podcast, we don't sit here and go, Oh, Christians absolutely cannot drink.

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No, absolutely not. Bible says do not. Yeah. Don't be drunkard. Right. And, and I would say, be very careful when you use those things like a tobacco, like a alcohol or something like that.

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But I always wondered for someone who has said, Hey, look at, I, I have recognized something in my life that was unhealthy and I've chosen not to partake in it like alcohol or drugs.

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How does that, how does it work for when you own a bar? You know what I mean? Is there a temptation there? Is that you far removed from that to where there isn't, do you have, do those conversations come up or is it just no?

19:17

All the time. All the time. I'm a very, I'm a, at heart. I'll always have pride. I'll always be selfish.

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We all will. Um, that's something that, that I didn't realize that I was a controlling person. I was a prideful person and all these things until I put the bottle down.

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And that was a, a little rude awakening because really what I thought, I was like, Jeff, you're, you're a perfect darn guy.

19:38

You just drink a little too much. If we could put the bottle of whiskey down, golly, think of it.

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Now what had happened was I put that bottle of whiskey down and I realized how broken of a person I really was. Yeah.

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The whiskey was an excuse to keep being broken. Yeah. It was an escape. Yeah. I couldn't deal with what I was doing in life.

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So I escaped every night. Um, I picked, and this is, this is God. Um, I, I, it, uh, it was

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September 16th. Um, I'm still, we're, we're still, uh, our members of grace Lutheran church on Monroe street over there by Broadway.

20:08

Yeah. Um, I'd been a member when we lived in, when we lived in Monroe or we lived in Livonia, we were going to Lutheran church out there.

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So when we moved back to Monroe after buying the restaurant, we went right to grace Lutheran. Um, I stood in front and I'd always been an usher that they asked me to read the scripture.

20:25

Right. So the 16th I go up there. I didn't know at the time, but at 10 30 in the morning,

20:30

I was still drunk from one from the night before, um, smelling it and I can taste it. I'm sitting up there and, and, and I, I, I've always been a decent, uh, public speaker.

20:39

Of course, I'm ruining that today, but if I, if I have something to read, like Jackson Jacobs supply,

20:44

Oh shoot. I could be like, I'm on the radio and I'm just reading the scripture. So I go up there and I read the two verses and I go back down and, uh, after the church ended, you know, all the ladies, all the, all the church ladies,

20:55

Oh, Jeff, Oh, we love how you read the scripture. We wish you could read every

21:02

Sunday and they just kept on coming up. And you know, Greg, usually that'd be right up my alley and my pridefulness and my sinfulness and I'd be like, yeah, that sounds pretty good.

21:11

I felt like the biggest phony in the world. Cause I knew I was drunk. Um, I knew I wasn't taking in the word that I was.

21:18

And that's, that's, that's the kind of believer I was then. It was more like this, this, uh, this, this, I, I wasn't praying on the way here.

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Like I did today. Right. Only if I had gotten into the ditch on the way here, that's when

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I started praying. That's, that's that trench, that's that stretch trench, uh, spirituality. And there's no room for that in my heart.

21:37

So I, I went home that night, um, and got drunk. What did you imagine? Imagine that, right?

21:43

So I felt like crap all day. I felt, I felt, uh, weird when

21:49

I woke up in the morning, uh, every morning I woke up and it was always a panic, um, you know, and, and, and there'd be a certain amount of things that I had to do about my dad.

21:57

I'd go downstairs, you know, I had this ritual before the girls woke up and, and one of the rituals, I'd go outside, smoke a cigarette, and then

22:03

I'd go through my cell phone. Yeah. Make sure I didn't text anybody and make sure I didn't make some post.

22:10

Yeah. You don't say something politically for gosh sake. I was, you know, um, um, and in the background still this day, if you, if you, if you

22:19

Google, uh, Monroe, Michigan, AA, a PDF downloads in the background. And, uh, there was a

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PDF downloaded in my background and it was a list of all the AA meetings and there it was nine 30

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Oaks righteousness Monday morning. Okay. Me and my pride again. Yeah.

22:36

Perfect. I'm not an alcoholic. I'm definitely not a homeless person. I'm not, I'm a business owner.

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I got a brand new truck. I'll have nothing in common with these people. Yeah. I went there and, and, and it changed my entire life.

22:49

Really? I really, Oh, hands down first meeting ever. And I never drank again. I never drank again. Now that whole long story leading up to it.

22:57

My next stop after my first AA meeting and I had a 24 hour coin in my pocket that I was just gripping, right?

23:04

I walked into a little brown jug and I walked in my office where I have a liquor cabinet where I'd always just snatch bottles on the way home.

23:11

What are drinking vodka or crown roller or whatever, you know, put the money in the till sometimes to grab a bottle.

23:17

There it is. And then when I go out of my, of my, of my office, there's the banquet room with a whole bar filled with liquor and beer.

23:24

And then I go through the middle dining room, the original bar and there's another bar. So this wasn't a stop drinking and then bought the bar.

23:32

It was. Oh no. I was, you owned it. Oh, it was done. Yeah. I was the owner for a while. I was the owner for almost four years at that time.

23:38

Um, you know, again, working there for 18 years at that point, you know, 14, 13 years before that being the owner four years.

23:44

And I just sat there and I just, I, I didn't know what I was going to do, but that's, that's what

23:50

I needed. I needed to hit like whatever my bottom was, you know, and even if it was, you know,

23:56

I tell guys, you know, think by the, I think good, I'm a grateful alcoholic.

24:01

Um, I, I am grateful that I never got in any trouble with the law. I never, God's sake, I didn't hurt anybody.

24:07

Um, but I did so much hurt to me in my, in my head and my soul. It was all, you know, the, the, the, there's no escaping this world.

24:16

And what I was doing is I was escaping it, whether it be in the restaurant, whether it be anything, I was escaping it every single night, what

24:22

I found out getting sober and it's a darn good thing. I got sober, um, because everything in my life was barely holding on.

24:29

Okay. So it was, there was same thing with, with, with at the restaurant, you know, whatever's going on there.

24:36

I had an escape every single night to not worry about the restaurant. In that escape,

24:42

I continued to make more and more and more and more mistakes while being drunk to where I woke up.

24:47

And not only was that first issue that was trying to escape, but then it was all the mistakes I made while I was drinking.

24:52

So I had this whole new, you know, this whole new load on me. And that was, that was just infiltrating all through my life.

24:58

It was, it was in relationships. It was, it was in my faith. It was in my business and everything. Um, really quick.

25:05

I would interject and say for those listening to and go, well, I don't, I don't drink. I don't, right. It's like any type of addiction, anything, uh, that you, that, that is an idle in your life.

25:16

The, everything you're saying can happen with that. I don't care if it's food. I don't care if it's some type of emotional control, if it's porn, if it's whatever it is.

25:24

Um, you know, uh, I think Luther said it best when he said, uh, whatever your heart clings to in times of trouble, that is your true

25:32

God, right? Appreciate you quoting Luther. No, it is one of my, it's one of my favorite quotes because it's so, it's so to the point because we put all these things before Christ and I just want listeners to know too, uh, you're talking very specifically about alcohol, but this is any, any addiction, any item in your life, all these issues that you were having, cause

25:53

I've had them too with other things, uh, they, they will become those same type of issues. Absolutely. I'm an addictive person.

25:59

If people, I will always have something, even, you know, we got to watch out for these alcoholics that, that, that go to sugar and sweets.

26:06

I got, I got probably 30 pounds. I mean, you can't believe it, but I got probably 30 pounds. I mean, the last almost six years of not drinking just because I'm eating now that I always have to be,

26:17

I always have to be careful because I'm an addict to nature and anything that tastes good, smells good, feels good. I've learned more and I learned more yesterday, you know, so I got to be careful with, with just what, so going back to, let's say being, being the struggles of being a sober guy at a bar.

26:32

Um, not many, I'm not an anonymous drunk. Speaking of, uh, now that you brought up Joe Bolino, uh,

26:39

Joe Bolino was sitting and we were having a sit down with another guy and I'd never met that guy.

26:46

And I'd probably about seven months sober. And I said, Hey, I'm Jeff. Oh, I'm an alcoholic too.

26:52

And Joe goes like this, he goes, you're not getting it. I'm like, I'm not getting what he said.

26:58

You're not getting the whole alcoholics anonymous ideal. And I'm like, crushed me.

27:04

I had seven months sober. I was like, I'm going to meetings all the time. Read the big book, work on my steps. What are you talking about? He goes, you're not anonymous.

27:11

I said, no, I'm not. And I tell, I just said that at the meeting this morning, you know, you had to be careful because there was a, there was a young lady that got turned down for life insurance.

27:21

She has three and a half years sober. And because she said she's an alcoholic, but it's been almost four years, they wouldn't give her life insurance.

27:29

And the same thing happened to me about two years ago. Um, so you gotta, so can

27:34

I, can I interject here and say something really quick because, um, I had to go to some of those, they were court ordered in my twenties.

27:41

Okay. Very, very, very many times. Good people. Yeah. And, and I remember sitting there and even in my twenties and I've said,

27:48

I said the sinner's prayer at seven and the Lord saved me at 24. So everyone on the podcast that listens knows I say that.

27:54

So there's a heart change at 24, but in my early teens, late teens, early twenties, I'm sitting in those meetings and I'm going, yeah, but the, even then

28:01

I could realize in my depravity and all the things I was doing and very addictive personality and should be dead. And Hey, if one is good, 10 or 10 is even better.

28:08

Right. Right. Yeah. I know that type of mentality, um, lots of pills and drinking and stuff.

28:14

But I remember thinking there, and the, the, the bone I had to pick with a, a lot of these guys are just kind of still sitting under this mantle of I'm an alcoholic, like I get it.

28:23

You have to say I'm an alcoholic, but, but just dwelling on this thing of, yeah, I haven't had a drink in 22 years, but then they would relive some of the stories that happened in 1978, 1992.

28:34

And you're like, okay, I get that sharing that. But I go, man, if, you know, whom crisis set free is free indeed.

28:40

So it's like, uh, I don't know if I would be good at, and I'm not saying anything against the meetings that they are helpful, but at the same time,

28:47

I feel like you have the right mentality. And if I'm picking up what you were saying is you're not going around going, Hey, my name's

28:53

Jeff. And by the way, I, I'm an alcoholic, right? It's like, I'm not ripping guys off bar stools. Right. I'm selling them whiskey.

28:59

Right. It, you're not going to make anybody do anything. They don't want to. And what I'll say about AA as a whole, um, for me personally, and the guys that have been around the table, like myself for almost six years, there's a lot of guys have been there 30, 40 years.

29:13

It's not even not about drinking. It's not about not drinking. I I'm, I'm fairly confident that I'm not going to drink tonight,

29:20

Greg. Yeah. I'm not sure about tomorrow, but I'm fairly confident in my right now, how I've gotten today managed that I'm not going to be drinking tonight.

29:28

Um, it's a better way to live. Yeah. The 12 steps for me were life changing because again, my ego and my pride,

29:37

I had built myself that I was the only one that understood and the only one that could do anything.

29:42

It was a very, very selfish and lonely life to where, you know, AA is, is, is more about, okay, you got to put your, you got to admit that you're, you know, an alcoholic,

29:51

I'm an addict. I'm an alcoholic. And then you've got us then, and then, you know, you got to find a higher power.

29:57

Why would I find a higher power to God? No, you've got to realize that you're not the biggest and the best and the best dancer and that, you know, everywhere

30:05

I went in, I wanted to be the best looking guy. I want to be the best dressed guy. I want to be the best.

30:10

Sure. And alcohol really brought that out of me in my mind, made me a better dancer, made me a better app, you know, in my mind, everything.

30:18

Yeah. I have to be, I have to wake up every morning almost and, and, and, and, and look myself in the eyes and say,

30:26

Jeff, you're not the most important person. I, the 12 steps helped me put that in Christ.

30:33

Yeah. So let me ask you, if you're saying, well, I already got God, but find a higher power, what's the difference between the two?

30:40

I'm not familiar with the program. Like what I know it's kind of anonymous when they use kind of ambiguous terms when they say higher power, because it's not one religion or one doctrine or theology or whatever, but what, what do you mean when you say, well,

30:51

I already have God, I have to find a higher power. Isn't God your, isn't he looking to Christ?

30:56

Your. I didn't have a higher power seven years ago. Even six years ago, I was still drinking. I did not have a higher power.

31:02

I see what you're saying. I was my higher power. Right. Again, I only talked to God. If I was, I had a really bad relationship, relationship with Christ in that, that it was almost like a barter.

31:13

Sure. I'm going to do this for you because you did this for me. And if I, if I get this week, maybe

31:20

I'll get blessed. And if I was, I was so sick of my mind and I thought that I had caught up to par and I did something that I wasn't making up for, well, that'll be something that I'm going to do because I'm bound to do something stupid next week.

31:34

That's no relationship with Christ. You know, the, the, the big thing that changed for me in my twenties is when

31:39

I'm reading through the scriptures too. And I'm seeing when you were yet his enemy, Christ died for you.

31:45

And you go, Oh yeah, that's right. God is outside of time. So he's beside me in that great moment we have together.

31:52

He's also beside me in that horrible thing I'm going to do next week and his blessings and grace don't change at all based on what

31:58

I've done and haven't done because the imputed righteousness of Christ shows me as righteous before him. So you go, wow.

32:04

Grace is great for us. Earthly beings don't understand how, like, you know,

32:10

I would say all for guys like you and I are workers and who get things done and who grace is a really weird thing because it's free and you go, well, hold on,

32:17

I've got to, I got to earn it or I did this thing to, you know what I mean? To, to get it.

32:22

And, and it really messes with our minds and you can be, you can get, even get trapped in that barter system of who God was.

32:28

So it sounds like you're saying too, and this was me in my twenties is I didn't even have the right view of who God or who

32:33

Christ truly was because I wasn't my life. I was the most important person in the room.

32:39

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You look back and you go, oh my gosh, how did anyone even stand me? That's what

32:44

I said. You guys, I still think that a lot of drinks, I can get you, get your ways with friends.

32:51

Side story. I don't make this all about alcoholism, but I, I, big thing was a opening day at tiger at Comerica park.

32:58

And I had my same buddy that we took every single, every single year. And I paid for the tickets and he drove.

33:03

And that was always a thing. I always, I'd always set myself up to where I had a driver. Don't get me wrong.

33:08

I drank and drove plenty of times, you know, hundreds of times. Um, but on a big day, like opening day or a concert,

33:15

I'd get a ride lined up. I'd buy them all their drinks. I'd buy them all their food. I'd put gas, I'd buy their ticket.

33:20

And, and I would still be a ridiculous, miserable drunk the whole time. Just, just awful. Yeah. Opening day would have been 2019.

33:31

Um, asked my buddy, Adam, I said, Hey man, you know, not drinking anymore. It's been like seven months.

33:37

Still want to go to opening day. He goes, absolutely, man. I was like, we're not going to get there at seven in the morning.

33:42

We could get there at like 10 and we can walk around. And, and, and we were sitting there and we were, we were sitting in our seats and it was probably like the fifth inning.

33:50

And I never remember sitting in our seats that other opening day. We were always just out, you know what

33:55

I mean? And I said, man, are you, are you having a, are you having a good time, man? I was like, cause I feel like I'm boring you or something.

34:02

He goes, was he still drinking at the time? Or yeah, but he's a safe drinker, right? Yeah. He can have to get two beers of the ball game and go home and eat a hot dog.

34:10

Those weirdos weird. If I have two beers and I'm sitting with your family, the last time

34:16

I tried to drink two beers of America park while I was drinking, I was running away getting beers for everybody, but I was going to the liquor bar and I was getting three or four shots and I was bringing back the wine and kugels for everybody else.

34:29

Right. That's just the guy I was, but no, he's a safe drinker. He can have to, he can, he can go to a game, have no beers, which is really even weird, you know, which not weird now for me, but anyhow.

34:37

Um, so he said, yeah, I'm having fun. He goes, if you were still drinking this year, I'd already told myself

34:43

I wasn't going to go with you again. Wow. So it was the opposite of what you thought. I thought he's like, I'm not going.

34:48

If you're drinking, you're thinking I'm not drinking. He's not going to hang up. Still dear friend to this day. That's awesome. We go on, we go on family vacations and stuff.

34:54

And, um, but that was really, that really put into focus. Cause, cause, cause really

34:59

Greg, man, I was, I was spending about four or 500 bucks on Adam every opening day.

35:04

Right now in the, again, the way I looked at things, if I spent $500 out of my pocket for you and we, and I thought we had a good time, well, we should be best friends, right?

35:15

500, me spending $500 on booze and, and, and all that stuff for him still wasn't enough to even want to hang out with me.

35:22

So people weren't putting up with us. They weren't putting up with me, you know, as a matter of time, that was another thing, relationships and friendships were, were, were, you know, on the, on the, on the,

35:32

I'm guessing you were probably high functioning too. Like you could handle, you could handle business. So that, that feeds into it too.

35:37

Like, dude, I'm, I'm getting stuff done. I mean, sometimes I remember back in the day I would,

35:42

I would almost feel more creative. I'd get more stuff accomplished. I would, and you go, yeah.

35:47

And then when you stop, you're like, what the heck I wasn't doing anything. I was just making, and that's, that's the thing.

35:53

Cause I thought like, again, I couldn't even, you know, and that's one thing after sitting sober up, I built,

35:58

I'm building back to building Legos. I didn't build Legos for 20 years cause I couldn't even put two pieces together when

36:04

I'm in a bottle, you know what I'm saying? So how creative are you when you're drinking? Can you build Legos? I couldn't, you know what

36:10

I mean? So again, that was that whole, that was that whole thing. Oh, I gotta, I gotta do it to go to sleep. And I gotta do it for people that like me and all that stuff.

36:18

And that's all those things. So bright. And you had to jump over, um, you know, again, it was, it was, it was, it was a risk again, in my ego when

36:28

I first got sober, I said, well now how can I be a sober guy and still expect

36:34

Greg Moore to bring his family in and you'd have two pilsners, right? What are they going to think of me again?

36:41

That's, that's that, that's that, uh, earthly thinking that I can't, I can't control. And that's one of those things that I did that I, I, I tried to control for all my life.

36:49

And I only made myself look more silly, trying to make you think of what you think about me. Right. I'm just not going to lie to you.

36:55

I'm not going to cheat you and I'm not going to steal anything from you. Right. And, and then, and, and I'm going to share my love of Christ with you.

37:02

I'm going to be a good brother and we're going to be, I'm going to, I'm going to set down, you know, boundaries for you and me, no matter how the relationship goes, but that's the guy

37:09

I am. And that's how it is in the restaurant. Yeah. If you want to think that I'm some snooty, you know, cause

37:15

I'll guys still need to get cut off. Sure. People over drink. We are there again, as, as a, as a, as a guy is sober, only, only a restaurant with bar.

37:26

We, we care more about your safety now than we did because other times

37:32

I'd be sitting down and drink with you. And I wasn't concerned about my safety, let alone yours. Yeah, exactly.

37:37

Not even the right mind to be concerned about it. Right. Correct. Yeah. Um, so, you know, guys suddenly get cut off and they'll throw that in my face.

37:44

I've been, have that's been really, Oh yeah. Oh, you're so big, but they call it a thumper or whatever.

37:51

I said, okay, Greg, whatever you think, man. Yeah. Ever. And again, that's probably some insecurities being put on you.

37:56

I think that's usually what it is from the alcoholics and what it is. Yeah. And, and I'm not, I'm not here to gain.

38:02

I'm not here to, I got enough shortcomings in my own, right. I am not here. And usually those guys come in and they apologize and they're still great customers to this day.

38:10

Um, but it, it, it, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's funny. It's, it's different because like, there's people like my buddy,

38:17

Adam, that can have a couple of beers and smoke a cigar at the ball game. And then he can have a hot dog within four hours and drive his family home.

38:25

Sure. And I have to be, I have to be aware of that too. I'm just not that guy.

38:30

Right. And that's okay too. Yeah. That's okay too. I'm still human, you know? So, um, obviously we're, we're more of a, of a restaurant than a bar, but we're still having parties and concerts and all kinds of things.

38:43

Yeah. So no, it's, it's a cool hang too, for sure. Uh, you know, my thing was too, is just using it as an excuse of, well, you know, uh, the

38:52

Lord has given me the freedom to do this. Uh, why can't I partake in this? I'm doing, I'm doing it responsibly.

38:59

It's at my house. It's with clients, it's whatever. And then, uh, praying one day and, uh, just really, uh, had this thought come to my mind and go, yeah, there's, there's all kinds of things that the

39:11

Lord, uh, that makes it, that it's acceptable to do. And there's some things that you just can't do.

39:17

You might not be, whether it's for a season forever, whatever it is, because we were talking offline Tuesday and I haven't drank since October and I don't know how long that's going to last.

39:27

Um, I just knew that going back to the Luther quote, stressed out, uh, got work problems, uh, and I reached for it and went, oh, so that's my

39:35

God. I'm not getting blackout drunk at that point, but that was definitely my God.

39:41

It's doing something to your, to your mindset. It's doing something to me and believe me, I've noticed times too. I don't have to be staggered, staggered down, drunk to also say cutting words or send a text to someone that is inappropriate or, uh, you know, respond to a client, not in time and you're just going, oh, this is gums up everything.

39:59

And she's only going to progressively get worse. Right. And so then I had, I said, oh, and just like you were saying,

40:04

I go, oh, it was the pride of me thinking I deserve this thing. And the Lord goes, oh no, there's all kinds of things that you just, you just can't partake of.

40:13

And I get to say if you can or can't. That's a beautiful thing. And God, my father, God, the father giving us free will, you talk about grace and free will.

40:22

That's another heck of a thing that we just, so you, so you're going to give, you're going to let me be down here and I can do whatever

40:29

I want with repercussions, of course, through the law or whatever. Um, or you could say, this is what you need to do.

40:39

And you give me the opportunity to do the right thing. That's that, that I had far too much free will in my twenties and thirties.

40:48

And free, seriously, free will that again, creates that, that God -like mentality that, that, and I think that's unfortunately, you know, getting to that a little bit younger generations.

41:00

Um, you know, Christ in the house is hurting us. It's hurting us at schools.

41:06

It's hurting us in the street. It's hurting everybody because again, our culture, in my opinion, I'm not, I don't want to get too political or whatever we, or we can get political as, as you want.

41:14

Um, uh, it doesn't matter to me, but there's one, there's, there's no,

41:20

I say higher power because that's what they say in, in, in, in, in the big book. And what I'll say too is, is if you've worked your, your 12 steps thoroughly,

41:28

God is your higher power. There's really no, there's nobody sitting at the tables after 30 years. They're saying anything other than God.

41:34

They're not saying the science and things like that. Um, but you, you, but they, they don't have a higher power, which again, gives them grace, gives them a blueprint of, of how to live and how to treat others.

41:46

And then, and then a certain thing happens where we don't trust the teachers anymore. Yeah. And now we can't trust the doctors anymore.

41:53

Yeah. And look at our politicians. Definitely can't trust them. Look at our judges, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and these young people are now going out into the streets.

42:03

They can't trust a police officer. They can't trust. They're always, they're right. They're right. The teacher's wrong.

42:09

There's no, there's no faith or, or, or, or basis of doing things for other people. There are no, they're their own

42:16

God. Yeah. And, and they're, and they're fully living off the emotions. They're feeling right there in that moment.

42:21

And, and that, that I, I, a fool is wise in his own eyes.

42:27

Correct. You know, proverb says, yeah, absolutely. You know, it was big for me to also realize too. I was in my late twenties, really started watching a lot of R .C.

42:36

Sproul. He was a famous theologian. He passed away a few years ago. They called him the professor.

42:42

He was this white guy with a fro and a seersucker suit. And he would tape all his lectures and sermons and, you know, in the seventies and well, he wore the seersucker suit in the seventies, not up until what does that, what does that, you know, just kind of like the big lapel, like seventies, you know what

42:59

I mean? Big lapel. Yeah. I get prom. Yeah. But, you know, even understanding the sovereignty of God versus the free will of man, meaning the free will of man, how his nature is to want to sin.

43:11

And he, I saw him tell someone once, Oh, you have free libertarian free will to do whatever you want. Huh? Yeah. Yeah.

43:17

Go up on that roof and, and go, go fly, you know, across the street. Well, I can't do that. I'm, I'm not a bird.

43:22

So it's not in your nature to fly is what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. Well, free will the same way you have the nature, the propensity to want to sin in the depravity that we are in under sin nature.

43:32

So I, you know, my belief is, and we may differ on this is we do have a free will, but it is within the nature of sinning.

43:39

It is in the nature. We have a natural propensity to want to lie steep, you know, steal, cheat, be prideful.

43:45

Right. And it isn't until, until Christ saves us until we recognize that depravity, until we understand the parable of the, um, of the borrower, right.

43:57

Uh, the, the one that I absolutely love where he goes to the King and he says basically he owed a lifetime of debt.

44:03

He couldn't have ever paid it off. He says, King, please forgive me. I'll do whatever you want. I can't pay it off. King says, you're forgiven.

44:09

The guy goes right out, finds his brother who owes him 10 bucks, essentially. He goes, I want my money. Where's my money.

44:15

I want them in debtor's prison. So for me, I look at the things I've done. I look at the way I've treated people.

44:20

I look now to the way I should treat people and go, I've been forgiven such a huge debt.

44:26

How dare I not wake up every day grateful and then go out and say, I have to show that grace and that mercy to other people

44:33

I interact with believers or not. Right. I would say, especially to non -believers so we can reflect

44:38

Christ in all we do. So, so it's this, uh, it's this place of gratefulness,

44:43

I would say, which sounds like you have a lot of that too, because you have a past probably very close to mine where you look at it and you go,

44:49

I wish I wouldn't even remember most of the things I did when I was partaking in those things. And especially just shaking my fist at God too, because I was the man,

44:58

I knew it was right. I don't need you. And then, uh, you know, part of my testimony is, is, is the

45:03

Lord really just knocked me on my butt within a 24 hour period. I mean, took my six year girlfriend at that time.

45:09

Now my wife of 18 years, this November, uh, took my job, my money, my band, my place to live, my car. I mean,

45:14

I had nothing. I mean, literally nothing. And I'm laying on a mattress in a loft in Detroit, in the city of Detroit and sobbing and going, well, maybe

45:22

I still have Christ. Do I still have him? Is he the, you know? And from there, it was a three to four year, just, okay, let's put all the traditions aside of everything you've been taught in, in your non -denominational churches and Pentecostal churches.

45:34

And let's see what the Bible has to say and start reading, actually reading the Bible instead.

45:39

And listen, listen to your pastor. Most of them are doing good and they're preaching the word hopefully. And if you're not in a

45:45

Bible preaching church, get to one. I don't care what denomination it is. Make sure they're opening that word, like how you were reading the word.

45:51

We can disagree on Lutheranism and Presbyterianism, but you're opening the word and you're reading it. And, uh, read what the

45:58

Bible said and really fell in love and went, oh my gosh, this is what the doctrines of grace was by Christ alone, by faith alone, by grace alone for the glory of God alone.

46:06

Yeah, this makes sense. And it was only through that transformation of my heart and mind, like the Bible truly says, replacing that heart of stone with the heart of flesh.

46:14

Then I go, oh, it's not about me. I rightly understand who God is. It says the beginning of Proverbs 13 says the beginning of wisdom is to fear

46:22

God. And it's two words there to, to not only reverence, but to have an actual healthy fear, kind of like when your mom said,

46:30

Hey, your day, when your dad comes home, he'll take care of this for me. Like the father, God, there is some of that because we can make

46:36

God to be up mercy and grace and justice. And he is that, but he's also got a wrath and of justice and of setting evildoers straight.

46:44

And he's all of that completely in his character. And to fully understand that, not just kind of pick what part of God I like.

46:51

Well, I like the part that forgives me. Well, that's what's so important about the biblically based theology of churches.

46:57

I think that there's so many churches and there's so many individuals that are taking this, this faith -based approach at life.

47:03

And they're just, they're just picketing these little portions of God. You have to take the whole, the whole thing.

47:09

So let me ask you, as we wrap this up here too. We're wrapping up. Well, we don't have to, I mean, we've already been going 50 minutes, 47 minutes.

47:16

I mean, we're yeah. You get two talkers together, two extroverts. We'll be here all day doing all kinds of stuff.

47:21

I mean, I just tell you about my day. We're doing all kinds of stuff at Glory. So, so where are you at now for church?

47:27

Grace, Grace, Lutheran. Grace Lutheran. That's right. It's on Monroe street, isn't it? Pastor Woody. Yes. Yeah. So what brought you there?

47:33

What do you like about it? Um, you know, what brought me there was again, uh, there's a guy named Ike Smith, uh, a good friend of mine.

47:39

We get into a lot of stuff. I'm, I'm part of his, uh, his nonprofit, a one sheep ministry. Um, one sheep, one sheep ministry.

47:46

Oh, sheep, sheep, sheep. Like one sheep, getting the one sheep. That's what, yeah, I like that.

47:52

Yeah. And we, we do a lot of, uh, we do a lot of, uh, food distributions, a lot of, uh, uh, which is right up my, you know,

48:00

God, were you guys doing stuff during COVID for food distribution? I think I might've met him during that. No, I wasn't working a ton.

48:06

He probably was. I was doing, I think I did. I was working with a nonprofit that was doing food distribution. I think we ran across each other.

48:11

I'm sure he did like one of those gleaners thing. Yep. That's Ike Smith. Yeah. There you go. I saw him twice today.

48:17

He's a, he's a dear brother of mine. Okay. So you're friends with him. He was doing a barbecue competition at grace

48:22

Lutheran. And I ended up in, in, in, in being in Livonia, living there. I won the darn thing like three or four years in a row.

48:29

So when the bar, okay. The barbecue competition or one sheep ministry, it was, it was, it was, uh, it was at that church.

48:35

It was at that church. And so I, what were you barbecuing? I was doing pork. I was just doing, uh, but, uh, pork, just pork and my barbecue.

48:43

And we're going to have one in August. You better keep, you better keep me on speed dial.

48:48

Uh, I'll give you a call. Uh, it's a good, it's a good competition. We got probably, probably be about 15 different restaurants and different guys out there competing and I'll be there.

48:56

So I've got six pork butts in the deep freezer right now. So if people over from church, we'll have three or four families. We've got a lot of kids in our family.

49:03

We have big families at our church. So that'd be 25, 30 people. But yeah, I'll do an 18, 20 hour smoke on it.

49:08

I'll get the deep fryer out. We'll do fresh cut fries. My wife makes the coleslaw dude. You got to come over for it.

49:14

It's great. I just went on the invitation. I guess when you're not drinking, you really like to get good food.

49:21

Yeah, because you're, you're eating cause you're hungry. So you won, you won the competition. You're at the church.

49:27

So it was like a no brainer. We came out to enroll. We were looking for Lutheran church. We jumped into grace and we met, uh, just at wonderful families and, and, and, and people there.

49:35

And again, the, the biblical knowledge and I got sober there. Okay. I got sober there and that's, and that's really, that's really where my relationship with Christ actually developed.

49:46

Because again, I couldn't have a relationship with Christ drinking and using, it just doesn't work. And I was my power and drug was, um, so I found it, but that's what

49:56

I, you know, I tell folks about, about church. It's, you know, I, I didn't go there. I was there because Ike, a

50:03

Christian guy and an addict himself, um, showed his grace to me and he welcomed me in that barbecue competition, knowing that I probably really reeked of liquor, but that's, that's where we need to be on it.

50:18

On a church is we need to go back out and we need to shepherd these people and we need to, we need to accept them again, you on a couch in Detroit, me drunk on the, on, on, on a concrete of my garage with everything

50:30

I thought was still intact. That's where Christ finds us. Yeah. And that's where guys like us, we can, well, okay.

50:38

We can, what are we pretty prideful of? Yeah. We have nothing to, and that's where he finds us and that's where he picks us up.

50:44

And that's where, that's where my, that's where, so everybody's, everybody's, you know, bottom of the barrel or their, or their, or their end is there.

50:51

So that's how I found grace. And again, now my kids have been baptized there. Um, and it's, and you know,

50:58

COVID rocked the churches. Geez. What was it? Yeah. What was their stance? Like theirs was awesome.

51:04

They're awesome. Same with my, my daughter is, uh, she'll be in her fifth year, fourth grade

51:09

Trinity Lutheran over there. And they did a great job as, as, as a, as a, as, as a school handling

51:16

COVID. Um, again, you know, it was when we were finally allowed to worship in the congregation, open them doors.

51:24

We turned it to, they turned it to three services and said two to keep the crowd down. They kept two rows in between.

51:31

Yeah. We had to wear a mask, but it was, again, it was same thing with, with, with, uh,

51:36

Trinity Lutheran. It was like, let's just get these kids back to school. That's how we originally, like,

51:41

I actually like bumped into you and knew you as Greg more as the individual, not as like the community guy.

51:47

And the realtor guy was you, you donated a bunch of that sanity, uh, of the sanitation.

51:53

Remember when me and John Allen and all those guys did the face mask and the sanitizer again, man, if my kids had to wear a mask, which

52:02

I really didn't like the mask, if they had to wear a mask to get to school, put a mask on and let's get these kids back to school.

52:09

They did really good. Both the school, um, uh, you know, my, my daughter being special needs, uh, at the time she was at Custer where I don't have anything negative to say about Custer, but just a public schools.

52:20

I, it was just, I think in those, you know, in that, in that year and a half, I think she probably went maybe six weeks.

52:28

I felt, man, I felt so bad for, uh, those kids having to do that though. So, so we were in a weird place where I work from home, uh, we homeschool all of our kids.

52:37

They've never set foot in a government school. Uh, nothing. If you wouldn't have told him that there was a pandemic going on, they wouldn't have known after about three, four weeks.

52:46

I was telling you, I kind of understood what it was. I looked at the data that we had two months in.

52:51

I definitely went, okay. Yeah. It's in the Corona family. Uh, Hey, we don't go to grandma's house when we have colds anyway.

52:57

So, you know, I washed my, I don't know who wasn't washing her hands after they're using a public bathroom. I thought it was crazy.

53:02

People were getting mad at that. I'm like, we should all be doing that. Okay. I, you know what I mean? HEPA HEPA cases. We had them in rural

53:08

County. They come to my board because golly. So anyway, my point was, is

53:13

I, it was very gracious to where it didn't even really feel like a pandemic. There's a whole story too, to where even our sheriff wasn't instituting any of the government, governor, uh, governor

53:21

Whitmer laws because of something I passed at the County board just two months prior that I thought was going to pertain to a second amendment actually ended up pertaining to unconstitutional rules and bans, uh, for health department violations that Gretchen Whitmer, you know, put in, but long story.

53:35

Um, my point being though is, man, I saw the kids there too. And you just go, Oh, they're all, you know, cause they really extended.

53:43

Some of these schools really extended that out. They were wearing masks, geez, a year down the road. And you're going let 0 .004

53:50

% of kids are even catching COVID. Can we just let them go to school and not be, you know, have a face for these folks that were, that were telling these kids to stay school.

54:00

I think they knew what they were doing. I, me as a, as a community guy, um, uh, again, pulling myself out of, out of a private

54:09

Lutheran school and, and, and, and, and going into the shelters and feeding these folks and being that, being that guy and really you're, you don't understand some people's struggle until you're right there with them.

54:19

Sure. Right. And, and I have to think these politicians knew what they were doing. Not, you know, by the grace of God, your kids and my kids.

54:27

Yeah. They may have lost a little bit, my kids, because they weren't going to school, but they were still getting fed and they were still getting taken care of some of the people in our community and around us, that's school is their only place of hope that's where they're only getting security of life where we're good, competent adults are taking this.

54:46

It might be the only place they're eating. I started thinking about this in 2020, 2021. I'm like, where are these kids eating?

54:52

Where are they getting any? And we're, we're, we're gonna, I still believe we're going to see the repercussions of this, of this virus.

55:00

Which that's yet another thing that speaks to a larger issue in our society that we have children to where a public school or even a private school or whatever is their only place of hope or where they're eating, we go, okay, how do we, you know,

55:12

I don't know where you stand on this, but as a limited government guy, I'm also a, let's solve the bigger problem guy.

55:19

We don't put band -aids on a sinking ship. It's throwing money at anything, you know, good money after bad, or however that saying goes, let's look at our society and go, why do we have parents that aren't involved in education?

55:32

Why do we have, you know, single, single parent homes at such high rates and just about every ethnicity.

55:39

Now, um, why is the divorce rate at 60 %? Why is, you know, and you start looking at these things.

55:44

Now I would say, because we've, we've removed God from this country and look at when you remove God from a nation, it's, it's not, it's lawless.

55:52

It's not, well, it's not a vacuum. The state now becomes the God, right? Um, so we have an issue to where the state wants to see everything.

55:59

They want to know everything. They want to be everywhere. They want to be all powerful. They want to be your sovereign God because we've removed

56:04

God from that. That's why we have things like AI and, you know, uh, cameras everywhere, privacy invasion, and because they have to be

56:11

God because we've, we've removed God. So we have some, I would say that's the biggest issue of all. But then, you know, as, because this goes into owning a business too, which we didn't even touch on.

56:20

I know we're so far into this, but people don't realize for those listening out there that are thinking about starting a business first year, a couple of years into it, you cannot be, uh,

56:29

I wouldn't say, let's say one of the things of being a successful business owner is also being involved in the community because you are providing a service to the community.

56:38

I bet you it would take you 10 minutes to list all the things that you've been involved in or are involved in when it comes to nonprofits, uh, special groups, right?

56:47

Sports teams of supporting other businesses, all these things. We got a really cool word.

56:52

Just, I gotta, I gotta give this to the little brown jug of my employees. We've used, um, we, we, it would take 35 minutes to say that the little brown jug is offered to do this community is so awesome.

57:01

What we have out there and what we're able to offer us or offer them. Um, we were, we were granted from the ISD, Monroe County ISD.

57:08

We were awarded the business partner of the year. Oh, that's awesome. And we bring them out by the school, by the, by the bus load.

57:15

Um, I've had, I actually have now I have four, four, uh, uh, employees with special needs working right there at the restaurant and that's the same.

57:24

And you have that in your family. So it's like, you've, you've, it's kind of like the, the ministry that the Lord has given you within your family is now.

57:30

Uh, you know, with, with your, yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah. But that's an award we got.

57:35

And that, that just, that was, you know, I can win barbecue awards and I can do all kinds of stuff like that.

57:41

But when you're actually like giving folks a shot that didn't have a shot before, and they're beginning to some of our employees, the people that you give a shot to become some of the best employees.

57:51

So we do a lot of cool stuff. There's a guy down here who used, he used to own a gym.

57:57

Oh my gosh. Why is his last gym? Nine. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He used to own a forest view before rich bought it.

58:04

And now he owns miracle lanes. I are one of the bowling alleys in Toledo, but his son is adult. I think he's 28 now, nonverbal autistic.

58:12

And because of that, he has, I mean, he's raised so much money for ISD. I remember going to a playground for out there and it's like, that's why it dude, it gets on me so bad when

58:23

I hear like far leftist progressives talking about businesses and all, it's just about profit. And it's like, dude,

58:28

I know so many small, medium and S and some large businesses that give so much money to so many things and do so much that the government can't do.

58:37

Um, and I would argue that is our place. Churches, nonprofits, businesses, they should be freely.

58:43

They should be the safety net of society, not necessarily federal dollars. There's folks that say before, before these federal programs were, you know, were in our, in our, in our country, that the, the folks that weren't so well off were actually getting taken care of better by the church.

59:01

Dude, in the thirties, forties and fifties, if you were out of work or you were the big picture, it was the

59:06

Lutheran and Catholic charities. You could go there and shout out for your Lutherans again, because they have a lot of organizations where they will go in and you could stay for two weeks.

59:15

They would train you, they would teach you a skill, they would feed you, and then they'd get you back on. It was like, uh, you know how we have the, whatever the

59:22

Michigan works here. Right. Yeah. It was all done by churches and it was done more effectively and better.

59:27

And in the, and I've railed against this and I've, I've said this to the American church. So the listeners have heard this many times, but I'll say it again.

59:34

I blame the churches. Oh, they, they stepped back and they went, Oh, we have these federal dollars to save that. We don't have to do our job and our great commission anymore.

59:41

And now, now we're to the point where the churches are going, well, what happened? I'll tell you a grace Lutheran is right there is like that old.

59:48

And again, Ike Smith with his, with his one sheet ministry, one sheet ministry will help out a person, you know, you'd come in and there was just two, three weeks ago, there was a lady that was about to get evicted.

01:00:00

Yeah. And, and she, again, it was, they helped her for a couple months, but again, we're not just one sheet ministry.

01:00:09

Didn't just throw money at this young lady. We said, obviously things have changed in your life to where you can afford living here.

01:00:18

So we can't just keep on paying the rent. We have to change either your living environment or you need to get you a job.

01:00:24

And I think that's what the churches were doing. They were holding these folks. People want to be accountable. They don't, people need to go.

01:00:31

We're pack animals. We need to go to work and be part of this community. We stay at home and we don't, we don't, we don't have any interaction.

01:00:38

That's where we're, we're, we're, we're, it's, it's not where anybody wants to be. People want to be accountable.

01:00:43

They want to work for the things they get. And I think that's what the church were probably doing where we're so grace

01:00:48

Lutheran one sheet ministry. They still have this commitment to the community where people can come into the office and we can help them.

01:00:56

Yeah. A lot of churches don't have that. That's good. All right. As we wrap up here, if there's anyone out there that is, uh, that, that is thinking that maybe they are, they own a business entrepreneurs, whatever.

01:01:07

I always like to get, when I get other business guys in here to throw out some knowledge for us, uh, that's been through it.

01:01:12

What would you give to someone who maybe is, has a new startup is thinking of starting a business. Maybe they're younger, heck, maybe they're older too, but it's just their first time diving into that.

01:01:22

What would be some, uh, some wisdom that you could, could lay on them from what you've experienced over the lab?

01:01:28

Well, be, you know, be an employee, not an owner of a business over the last 20 plus years. Manage over control.

01:01:35

What does that mean? Over control. There's no, it took me being sober to realize that I can't control my staff.

01:01:43

Okay. When I'm all managed over control. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Manage over management. No control.

01:01:50

Okay. When you go into the business and, and, and it took COVID again, I had about a year and a half sober when

01:01:57

COVID happened. I was still, I'm still, I'm still a control guy. I'm always going to be wanting to control this and that and this and that.

01:02:04

And that's something that I need to get in front of Christ every single day. And I, you know, um, so.

01:02:11

Even in 2020, I realized how little control I had over my business.

01:02:16

Okay. And that was shot. No, wait a second. You're telling me that I have to close my restaurant and I can't have anybody come in.

01:02:25

That's how I made my money, Greg. Yeah. So I provide for my family. You closed out my business. That's the control, complete control of my business.

01:02:32

So what I would tell business owners is, is, is unfortunately, whether you like it or not, we have very little control over everything and it's about how we manage and learn from the situations.

01:02:44

So again, and try, instead of trying to control that guy, this late, it ain't gonna happen.

01:02:50

I can do again, staying in my lane, I can, I can help manage him, maybe, maybe help him to manage his life to where he can get back on track and be on time.

01:03:01

Yeah. I'm not going to, I, I, I can't control my own business. So what am I going to go in there? Again, good management, less control.

01:03:09

Yeah, no, that's good stuff. I can't control the people that are coming through the door. I can't control my staff.

01:03:14

I can't control the price of goods coming into my shop. What do

01:03:20

I have control over? I have control over how I react to these things coming into my life. I mean, so, but you still have, you know, principles that guide you, right?

01:03:30

All those things in business. For sure. You're just saying the micromanaging and the Uber control, which honestly,

01:03:36

I find that goes all the way through the business, even, even the control of my office.

01:03:41

I have to, I have to, I have to manage my, my resources. And again, controlling my resources, that can be a selfish thing where I'm a rich guy and I'm not taking care of my staff in the community, right.

01:03:53

Or I can manage my money, know that I'm driving a 2018 F -150. I'm driving the oldest vehicle now than I have, you know, in my adult life.

01:04:03

And I, I'm probably a little bit more comfortable now. I could easily afford a new car.

01:04:08

Yeah. But we know those things are liabilities. The minute you drive them off the lot. Don't tell John Allen that 2018, 2018, it's 2024, bro.

01:04:15

I got a six year old car. That again is managing my money and not trying to control again, my image and things like that.

01:04:22

Right. Yeah, no, that's good. All right. Cool, man. Jeff, thanks so much for stopping by. I know we can probably go another two hours.

01:04:28

I got things to do. You got things to do. We're all busy. Um, we'll make sure we link up though, guys, too.

01:04:34

Uh, if you are in the area or you're making a road trip to Michigan, you gotta check out the little brown jug. Like I said, it is a staple for decades in Monroe County.

01:04:42

It pops up on blogs all the time. I think they've been featured on reality shows. It's just one of those things where, uh,

01:04:49

I like it as a lifelong Monroe County resident. Imagine my wife, we can't go anywhere in this world.

01:04:55

And she's like, Oh, and both Jethro and Jethro's not in my fricking name. There's an accrues of Belize.

01:05:02

They're like little brown jug guy. What? Uh, so yeah, guys, I'll link it up. Go check it out. But, um, yeah, I just wanted to have a brother on, talk about it.

01:05:09

I'm so glad you chopped it up with us and, uh, man, God bless. Thanks for being here, man. Christ be glory.

01:05:14

Yeah, guys. Remember, uh, as always chief at the man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

01:05:20

God bless. Be sure to check us out at dmwpodcast .com where you can purchase the best and snarkiest merch on the internet, support the show and leave us a review or message.

01:05:27

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