February 6, 2024 Show with Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Edward Dalcour on “God’s Sovereign Grace Proclaimed in Nepal”

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February 7, 2024

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this sixth day of February 2024.
01:31: I am thrilled to have both a first -time guest and a returning guest on simultaneously.
01:40: They are both staff members at First Love Ministries, and they are both involved in a mission work that recently took place in Nepal.
01:50: And it's a thrill to have, first of all, for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.
01:57: Paul Nelson, who is author of Presuppositionalism, A Biblical Approach to Apologetics, and he is also president of Grace Bible University in Dublin, California.
02:08: Welcome for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Paul Nelson. Thank you.
02:15: And for some reason, you don't sound as clear as you did earlier before the show. You sound kind of distant. How about now?
02:23: Oh, you sound fine. And if you could cut your camera off, that would be great, because it drains bandwidth.
02:28: So thank you. And also, welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.
02:35: Edward DelCour. And not only is he a staff member at First Love Ministries, he's also an author and the president and director of the
02:43: Department of Christian Defense. It's great to have you back as well, Eddie DelCour. Hey, great to be with you again,
02:51: Chris. Just looking forward to the show for the next, gosh, how long we go, an hour, hour?
02:57: Two hours. Two hours. Two hours. Obviously, you're an enormous fan of the show and listen daily, and so you know it's two hours long.
03:08: I like when I sometimes, I find it interesting when I speak sometimes at different churches, if it's a charismatic church, the pastor will tell me, you know, brother,
03:19: I always like to know how much time I have, and the pastor will come up to me and say, you know, brother, just let the spirit move.
03:25: Then after about 40 minutes, he starts looking at his watch. Well, Dr.
03:33: Paul Nelson, why don't you let our listeners know something about Grace Bible University of Dublin, California?
03:42: Grace Bible University is primarily designed for third world countries in our missionary work.
03:50: It's a full curriculum. We have four years of a bachelor degree, and it's to train and equip ministers in these third world countries.
04:03: So, but it is a full curriculum, and like the first year right now, we were doing some of our courses are church history, systematic theology, and then also involved in sanctification with J .C.
04:23: Ryle's Holiness and some other works as well, but it's a good study line.
04:29: So we're very pleased that we have, I think, we just brought in 51 students from Nepal on our recent trip there and had an inauguration ceremony for the new students.
04:43: And then I learned we have 28 more in eastern Nepal. And then our work over in the
04:49: Philippines, we have about 35 students that are almost completed with their first year of study.
04:57: And also we're working in India and in Nigeria as well.
05:05: So it's really started to grow. First, we had scattered courses, and then now we've organized them, put them together in a full curriculum.
05:16: So it's basically it in summary. All right. And Eddie Dalcor, please let our listeners know something more about the
05:25: Department of Christian Defense. Department of Christian Defense is a apologetic
05:31: Christian educational ministry. We have a website, christiandefense .org,
05:38: wherein there is lots of articles about not only non -Christian groups and world religions and particularly non -Christian cults, or I call them.
05:50: You know, Chris, these kind of groups, I just categorize all of them as religious atheistic groups because they have the wrong
05:57: God. So we have a lot of articles on that and different areas of textual criticism and all kinds of things.
06:04: We have a little search engine. But also it provides some of our books, some of the books that I have written on.
06:12: One is on oneness theology. The last one I did was on apologetics,
06:19: Introduction to Apologetics. And we have some other books that we authored that I have co -authored. So it's an important,
06:25: I always think this ministry of apologetics is very important. Why? Because it seems it's so neglected behind the pulpit at so many churches these days.
06:36: That's why I'm always excited to go with Paul and First Love to these countries who they've never heard what apologetics is or how it operates.
06:48: They don't know much about it, let alone basic theology. That's why they're so attacked by non -Christian groups.
06:54: They're so attacked by these aggressive non -Christian groups, whether it's Islam or Mormons, Witnesses.
07:02: One is Pentecostalism. They just don't know the difference. So when we go to these groups, you know, all of our conferences also,
07:09: I will say, Chris, they always focus, these pastor conferences that we do, they always focus on essential doctrines.
07:16: All the topics have to do with essential doctrines. And the basis of the Christian defense, at least on my ministry, has always been an affirmation of essential
07:27: Christian doctrines and as instructed in Scripture, a defense of those essential doctrines.
07:36: So I'm delighted that God has used me in this capacity. And I also teach at a couple of Bible universities and also do some local
07:47: Bible studies out here. And I'm thrilled to be here. Great. And if you could now explain in more detail
07:54: First Love Ministries, and just so our listeners know right off the top of the bat, this program is live streamed daily through First Love Radio, which is a wing of First Love Ministries.
08:10: But tell our listeners about this fine ministry. Yeah, First Love Ministries, and actually,
08:16: Paul and I have been involved in so many years, I forgot to, you know, we started out doing pastor conferences and Christian conferences.
08:24: I think in the late, I think in the early, early 2000s, and it evolved thanks to Joe Jokowicz, who is the pastor up there at Christ Bible Church.
08:36: It was his vision, First Love Publication and First Love Ministries. They're co -ministries.
08:44: First Love Ministries is, it's a ministry, basically, it's been focused, our main focus has been international churches in Nigeria, in the
09:01: Philippines, in Nepal, and these conferences and these, where we go with First Love Ministries is very important.
09:08: And what we do there, because we don't charge, that's why, that's the name, First Love Ministries, we don't charge to, we pay our own expenses.
09:16: We go there and we distribute books, and I know with, in Nepal and also
09:23: Nigeria, we even get them translated in their own language, which is very important.
09:29: That's one of the, I think that's a very big aspect of First Love Ministries and First Love Publication, is that we translate, or we teach them how to translate, or we help them get, you know, printing presses and so on and so forth.
09:42: Because Chris and, you know, you're living here, and if you want to know something about doctrine, well, you just go to the, well, when we used to have local bookstores, you go online and, you know, you can get a whole cottery of books and theological, systematic theologies and all kinds of things, and materials at your fingertips.
10:02: But if you live in Nepal, for example, they don't know English, and most of the theological material that we have that is printed and widely distributed on Amazon and online bookstores, they're all in English or maybe
10:17: Spanish or some predominant languages. But in Nepal, these people who are really zealous for the
10:24: Word of God, they don't have these materials. So First Love Ministries and First Love Publication, we get the materials.
10:32: We also speak it, you know, we go out there and we do these conferences, but we put the materials in their hand, and then they can take it to their churches.
10:41: So that's a huge, I think, aspect of First Love Ministries is ministering the essentials of the
10:50: Word of God in the hands of people that don't have the material. And we also bring the seminary that Dr.
11:01: Paul Nelson is the president of, I'm vice president, Grace Bible University, where we actually offer degrees.
11:10: And Dr. Downey and others, Dr. Downey primarily wrote most of the syllabus, but we also get a lot of reform books that we get translated, if needed, as part of the curriculum.
11:21: But we give them a biblical education in which they don't have to pay for it. They get a free, solid biblical education.
11:29: And I think that's one of the beautiful things about First Love Ministries, First Love Publication is just the wide range of distribution of solid theological materials, putting this material, these pieces of just treasures in the hands of these pastors in which affect all the churches that they pastor over.
11:53: So by educating the pastors and bringing First Love Ministries out to these pastors at these conferences really do, by extension, educate the churches in which they are, wherein they are leaders.
12:07: So First Love Ministries, First Love Publication, it's a very productive, it's a very,
12:13: I think, needed ministry, because as you know, Chris, there's zillions of ministries out there that go international, but we need the right people with the right message.
12:24: And, you know, who's doing that these days? Not many have the objective to distribute solid, you know, a non health, wealth, prosperity kind of message, but solid theology.
12:39: That's what they need. And that's what we do. And that's what First Love is focused on. Amen. Go ahead.
12:44: If I can just add a little bit to that, the people, the countries we go to, there's severe poverty and they don't have any wherewithal to buy books.
12:58: I mean, one book, one book would cost maybe a month's salary and, you know, they couldn't sacrifice that.
13:06: They have to feed their families. They don't. Over here in the States, the pastor is paid by the congregation.
13:13: Well, they don't have that luxury out there. They're almost all tent makers and they all have to provide for their families.
13:21: So to study out there is a little bit different. They have to take the work home. So we always have a study guide, a textbook and a study guide for each course.
13:29: And they take that back to their village and they'll work on filling out the study guide.
13:37: And then they'll come back after a month or two after they finish the courses or a course.
13:43: And then they'll come back and meet with a mentor, which is, well, we have very qualified mentors in the various countries we work with.
13:53: And then they'll discuss it for three or four days, turn in all their work, complete the courses, and then we'll give them more courses and they'll go back home.
14:04: So it's a different kind of a different kind of method of teaching and our teaching method.
14:11: You know, we always we try to aim at the heart. We don't want just it to be academic or intellectual only.
14:19: We want to aim at the heart. So we always have included pastoral theology and books of sanctification to to work on the heart and our study guides direct direct the studies towards the heart as well.
14:33: So that's an important factor. So I just wanted to add those things.
14:39: I think as we progress in our material, Dr. Stan Murrell writes all the study guides and he's an incredible workhorse.
14:50: And he just does a tremendous job. So we when we print a book, we also print out the the study guide for it.
15:01: And there's a leader's guide that has all the answers as well that we give to the mentors. It's very different working with third world countries, not anything like the
15:13: United States. And what was really fantastic is that the the the students that are so hungry for the word of God.
15:23: I mean, we were at the in Nepal and there were 51 new students that wanted to dedicate themselves to study.
15:33: And and then and then it increased like a month later. There were 28 more in eastern
15:38: Nepal. So we're we're working really hard to to equip, educate these these people.
15:49: And now and now, Eddie, if you could explain this upcoming
15:54: Bible conference that is coming up very shortly this month. Yeah, it's it's
16:02: I think last year was our first one at this particular church. We do conferences once a year, but at this somewhat of a new church, actually, one of the people, one of the ministers involved with First Love Publication and Ministries is
16:15: Pastor Austin, Austin Huggins.
16:21: And he co -pastors the church out there in it's Baghdad, Florida, right outside of where Milton, Florida is, if you know, it's about an hour from Pensacola.
16:31: But we're doing a conference we did last year. We did a conference on on the on regeneration.
16:37: And it's interesting, Chris, my topic was baptismal regeneration, showing the biblical error of that kind of thinking, but also because you have to add it in decisional regeneration, which always gets under people's skin if they hold to altar calls and that kind of thing.
16:58: But anyways, we had a great time. Paul was there. Dr. Paul Nelson was there and a whole, you know, most of the first love ministers.
17:06: So this year we're doing a conference February 22nd.
17:12: Actually, that's when we get there. I think the 23rd and 24th and 25th,
17:17: I believe, will be there. There's going to be a lot of speakers aside from myself,
17:25: Dr. Paul Nelson, Pastor Joe Jockowitz is coming. Austin Higgins Huggins, of course, he's he's one of the speakers, but he's also the co -pastor there.
17:34: Tom Smith, who's part of our organization. Also, we have
17:40: Stephen Lewis, who actually is a co -pastor at Dr. Downey Church, former church that Dr.
17:46: Downey was former pastor. John Waldrop, which is actually he's a pastor at a
17:53: Reformed Baptist Church, Calvary, Calvary Road Baptist Church in Arcadia, I believe he's coming.
18:02: And then, which is really exciting, not only do we have two pastors from Nigeria coming, but we have
18:10: Samuel, Dr. Samuel Rye, who is the pastor, the main lead pastor who is just has started hundreds of churches in Nepal.
18:22: He coming and he's going to be one of the keynote speakers as well. So we have a whole cast of just excellent speakers.
18:28: The topic, the topic of this conference is the
18:34: Holy Spirit. Now, before all the charismatics get their hopes up, we're not dealing with Sada.
18:42: And I always I always think because it's it's a it's it's a Bible conference on the personal work of the
18:47: Holy Spirit. Hopefully we attract a lot of charismatics who think it may be something else, but they'll get to hear sound teaching.
18:54: Here's some of the topics, Chris, that we're going to deal with. We have both plenary main topics and then meetings.
19:03: And then we also have breakout sessions, the person and work of the Holy Spirit, the work of the
19:09: Holy Spirit, sanctification by the Holy Spirit. These are all separate topics we'll be dealing with. Peace, joy and fruit of the
19:16: Spirit, the power of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit and and church unity. I believe the
19:22: Holy Spirit in missions, very important topic, pastoral ministry and the Holy Spirit, the
19:28: Holy Spirit and the scriptures and then resisting the Holy Spirit. That's one topic. And then finally, the gifts of the
19:36: Spirit. These might be in order, but the gifts of the Spirit, a biblical perspective of the gifts of the
19:44: Spirit. So, Chris, I'm very excited about this particular Bible conference because it seems that the
19:50: Holy Spirit, I mean, for me, it seems in far too many I don't like to use the word most of Christian Trinitarian churches.
19:59: It seems the Holy Spirit is kind of the one that no one really, you know, talks about much.
20:05: You know, he's just you're talking about the non -charismatic and non -Pentecostal church.
20:10: Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. And, you know, Trinitarian churches. Yeah. I was just going to make that point.
20:15: Of course, charismatics, you would think that the Holy Spirit is the unipersonal person in the Godhead or something.
20:21: But, yeah, so we want to bring out the biblical truth of the Holy Spirit.
20:27: He's a third person of the Trinity and he's co -equal with the son, co -equal with the father.
20:35: So we want to bring these things out. And he's a person. He's not a force. He's not a beach ball that you can throw in front of the church, you know, back.
20:44: And I say that because I've seen that a charismatic church. I think he's not a flag, you know, the worship flags, but he's not a force that just kind of floating and he'll miss you and get the guy behind you.
20:57: From from what I understand, from what I understand, attending some and I'm not broadbrushing my
21:04: Pentecostal and charismatic friends, but from what I understand, when I have attended some charismatic meetings, especially the ladies that are present do this,
21:16: I have learned something new. You can actually wave the Holy Spirit into your lungs, like into your mouth when you're worshiping.
21:24: You could wave your hands and as if it's some kind of a gaseous substance, you could wave it into your mouth and your nostrils.
21:33: Are you aware of that? You know, I've well, keep in mind, you know, when
21:39: I was in the strength ministry in the 90s, we went to all kinds of churches because we were gospel centric.
21:45: So we were invited to, you know, by invited to have a crusade by Methodist churches,
21:51: Baptist church, all kinds of churches. I can't remember if we were invited from a by reformed church, but a lot of charismatic churches.
22:00: And I've seen it all. And Paul Nelson, Dr. Paul Nelson, he also had experience with charismatic churches in his the beginning of his
22:07: Christian life. But the fact of the matter is, you're right, Chris, because of biblical neglect and because of just a biblical illiteracy on the
22:16: Holy Spirit, they really make the Holy Spirit something that you hope, you know, functionally something that that Jehovah's Witnesses believe he's a force.
22:25: He's not really a person, but he's a force that can go in your nostrils or influence you or so on and so forth.
22:31: But in the same time, last comment, I don't we don't diminish the power of the Holy Spirit. You know,
22:36: I always pray that the Holy Spirit would give me power before I speak or give me remembrance or something.
22:43: We don't diminish the Holy Spirit's role, but of course, we see it from a biblical perspective.
22:51: Well, if anybody wants more information, not only on First Love Ministries, but also on the upcoming conference,
22:58: February 23rd through the 24th in Baghdad, Florida, go to FirstLoveMinistries .org,
23:05: FirstLoveMinistries .org, and we will be repeating that information throughout the show.
23:12: And by the way, when we return from our first commercial break that we are entering into right now, we're going to hear the salvation testimony in summary form of our guest,
23:25: Dr. Paul Nelson, because he is a first time guest today. And whenever we have a first time guest, they give their their salvation testimony in summary form.
23:35: Eddie's already done that on the show. But if you have a question for our guest today, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,
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31:52: Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie DelTecor, and we are going to be discussing a mission trip to Nepal that both
32:02: Paul and Eddie went on recently. And before we do that, since Paul Nelson is a first -time guest, we're going to have him give a summary of a salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our
32:22: Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Yeah, let's see, where do
32:28: I begin? Your childhood. God did not save me, it was not an immediate conversion.
32:40: In his providence, as you mentioned, he had to bring me through a kind of a journey before I saw my sin and saw the terrible state
32:50: I was in. But you know, he saved me as a young man, and I'm very thankful for that.
32:57: But I came out of high school, I was a very rebellious teenager and got in a lot of trouble.
33:06: And then I had a couple of friends in high school that we called
33:11: Jesus freaks, and they would share the gospel. It was an Arminian gospel and a charismatic gospel.
33:20: But God worked in me through that. And I remember having to,
33:27: I had to walk the aisle. And I don't know if you've heard of Melody Land and Ralph Wilkinson's ministry across from Disneyland.
33:37: I walked the aisle. And I remember they were telling me to get baptized.
33:44: I said, Okay, I'll get baptized. And then they told me that, you know,
33:49: I'm going to speak in tongues. And they tried to teach me how to speak in tongues.
33:54: So when the other people are getting baptized, they would come up and they'd start speaking in tongues. But when
34:00: I came up out of the water, I was sitting there, I had my hands out and nothing, no, no tongues came out.
34:08: So I thought I was a failure as a Christian. I was a second rate Christian. It's kind of strange.
34:14: I did have a sense of sin, I had stolen some things, and God really brought that out. And he began to work with me.
34:22: But after that, walking forward on the aisle, there was a very superficial
34:27: Christianity, that a very insincere, noncommittal to,
34:33: I'd go to church maybe once a month, something like of that sort. And, and so I went like that for maybe three years.
34:43: And I came up to Flagstaff here to go to college. And a roommate challenged me on the doctrines of grace.
34:52: I had been, I had been going to some Christian campus organizations.
35:00: And I had the campus praying for my friend who had gone out the deep end in these in this
35:06: Calvinism. But he would go to California and come back with some books, sovereign grace books, you know, the reform doctrines.
35:19: And that first book that he gave me was J .C.
35:24: Ryle's Holiness. And that's the book that God totally destroyed me.
35:30: He opened my eyes to, wow,
35:35: I'm going to get emotional here. He opened my eyes to see my sin. And what a horrible state
35:41: I was in apart from from a committed life with Christ. And it was through that book.
35:48: And we debated for a year on and I was, I was a, you know, I was a protector of free will.
35:55: I religion didn't make any sense without free will to me. And I found out that, you know, after a year of debating with this guy, he has my roommate,
36:05: I lost almost every debate. All he did was just open the Bible and read the word of God to me.
36:12: And God brought me in to to see his sovereign, his sovereign grace. And that was when
36:19: I think, I think that was when God saved me for where I really began, became committed to Christ.
36:28: So from walking the aisle back in California to, to God saving me in Flagstaff, maybe three years of a calling that he was giving me a journey that I that in showing me how superficial, how superficial my faith in Christ was.
36:48: So that's kind of, you know, it's interesting that I had campus ambassadors, all the college ministries, they were all
36:58: Arminian, and I had them all praying for my roommate. He's gone off the deep end, and then
37:03: God saved me through it. And, and there was no turning back after that.
37:10: So, well, yeah, always, always love to hear the saving power of Jesus Christ.
37:21: Um, well, now we are going to begin our discussion.
37:26: And then we're not going to have very long to do it in this break. But after just some opening remarks, we're going to be going to our midway break.
37:37: But now, if Eddie will start, please let our listeners know about your recent trip to Nepal, and please perhaps even preface that with a description of Nepal, especially in regard to the religious climate there, what kind of Christian presence is already there, and what kind of rivals to Christianity, religiously, is present and so on.
38:09: Right. Um, just to get an overview, first, Nepal, like India, is it's dominated with Hindus.
38:18: However, what, unfortunately, what has been shown is there's a increase in Islamic mosques being built out there.
38:28: But as of right now, the dominating religion is Hinduism, as with India.
38:35: And the problem with Hinduism, one of the problems is they can be very violent.
38:41: We know Muslims are very violent because that's part of their doctrine. But Hindus do. Before we came,
38:48: I remember, to this time in Nepal a few months ago, there was bombings by Hindus at different churches.
38:57: However, and Paul can probably expand on this. The one who we come up under,
39:04: Samuel Rai, he's the one who started literally hundreds of churches. He's very strict in terms of doctrinal clarity among pastors.
39:13: And if your church gets at 100 people, he's going to start a new church. He doesn't want giant churches.
39:19: Everyone's on the same page, by and large, in terms of theology. The reason why he can get in, you know, has these advantages of opening churches with minimal hostility, is because Samuel Rai was a general before he was converted of the communist army.
39:39: He was feared. He was a general. He was an atheist, but he was a general in the communist party in Nepal.
39:46: Even today, he's very much respected, very much feared, but very respected, even in his conversion.
39:52: So I'm not sure if he has any problems with the Hindus, but that's the climate. And because of that, it's similar to when
40:01: I go to Thailand or Burma, the dominating religion is
40:08: Buddhism. So you have to understand that the Christians there, the professing Christians there, some are very polluted with that doctrine.
40:18: And as you know, Chris, if you've been in a non -Christian group, like say you've been in Rome for years and years and years, and then you get generally converted, there's still some residue.
40:29: There's still some Romanism, you know, that that's lingering that you got to get rid of, you know, and that comes by the word of God and having knowledge in the word of God and on essential doctrines and fundamental truth.
40:41: So that's what we encounter when we go to Nepal. We understand that some of these pastors, they came out of a background of Hinduism.
40:49: They're generally converted. That's not the issue, but they need to increase in their theological awareness to be not just accurate, but be precise and understand the differences also.
41:02: So we come in and we also understand that most of these pastors, even though they're professing reformed, they're on the same page, reformed believers, they still lack information because again, they don't read most of them.
41:20: They don't read English to get equipped by some of the theological books that we have, you know, in English and predominant languages.
41:29: So, you know, I remember I was speaking there and I was doing something on Christ alone.
41:34: I asked the question, who's heard of the Reformation? No one raised their hand. Hopefully they were just shy, but I don't know.
41:43: But that's why it's always encouraging for me. This is one of the, I think, most encouraging and productive ministry trips that I take is going to these places.
41:51: But Nepal is a place where we go there, as mentioned, and we distribute
41:57: Christian doctrine. Each of us, whoever the speakers are, normally we have the same speakers.
42:03: I know Paul, I go with Paul and it's myself and Paul. Last time
42:09: Joe went with us, he endured that 27 hour or whatever his flight.
42:15: It was great. But the topics we have are so needed, topics of theology, topics on the
42:21: Trinity, topics on Solus Christus, topics on the Bible alone, and topics on sanctification, which is really important as pastors to teach their people how to live correctly as Christians live according to your calling.
42:36: So we come in with these essential, needed doctrines. And here's what
42:42: I found going, even in the Philippines, but going to these places, particularly Nepal, when we speak, unlike churches out here, where they're on their cell phones, they're reaching for their cappuccino, a lot of distractions.
42:57: I think all churches have that problem. But they are different. Not only do they worship very hard, you can see that for the time of when they're doing their praise music and they're singing and they're just, you can see the sincerity.
43:16: But when we speak, each one of us, they have their giant notebooks out and they are taking almost, it's like a court reporter.
43:25: They're taking notes, almost word for word because they want to know.
43:31: They want to know they're so zealous out there. And here's the reason why. They're not texting on their cell phone.
43:38: They're not distracted. They're laser light, literally a laser light.
43:43: I can see in their eyes to what we're saying. And they write it down because they're going to take that information, get on a bus.
43:49: Some of them get on a bus, go 20 hours to their churches. You know, they come from all over the country and some from India.
43:56: They're going to take this information that they already wrote down and they're going to distribute what they learn to their churches.
44:02: Some churches are in literally in a jungle. In Nepal, interesting that last time we went to, it's a national park and it's known for the wildlife.
44:14: In fact, it's a sanctuary for the Bengal tiger. But in our hotel and on the streets, there's wild rhinos, short horn rhinos running around, not running, but walking around as if nothing, you know, and people take pictures.
44:31: One was right across my hotel room, just sleeping on the grass. By the way, I live in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and there's rhinos everywhere, but I'm talking about Republicans in name only.
44:43: I'm sorry. That's funny. So, but from the ministry standpoint, you know, that's,
44:52: I think it's, I can speak for Dr. Paul as well. It's so encouraging watching people listen to us and watching them write down every word of doctrine, accurate, solid, within the reform framework of doctrine.
45:08: And we know that these issues of sanctification theology, they're going to take back to their churches. And that I experienced that every time, every time
45:17: I go to Nepal, I experienced that. And most of the time in the Philippines, because they want doctrine and they don't have the resources, especially in Nepal.
45:27: So that's really the basic. Oh, and we also, as mentioned before, each pastor, we give a box or a bag of several different books of a systematic theology that Dr.
45:40: Downing wrote and our books and other theological books that are translated in their own language.
45:46: And they take the bags and it's like the best thing you can possibly, you know, they look at it as the best thing they've ever had in their life, a bag of theological material that's going to change lives.
45:57: They're going to bring it to their congregation. It's going to change lives and increase Christians to really understand
46:03: God, to increase their theology, increase in the, in the theology and into the grace, increase their godly living.
46:11: And that's what makes it all worth it. That makes the 27 hour flight or all the walking and they were serving us water buffalo for dinner, but it makes,
46:24: I think Paul liked water buffalo, but it makes it all worth it. You know, all the stuff, you know, it just makes it worth, it really does make it worthwhile.
46:33: Well, Paul, what does water buffalo taste like? Do you enjoy it? It tastes like leather.
46:39: Oh, I guess you don't enjoy it. Yeah. But the goat is good.
46:44: The goat is really good. It's like a roast beef. I have had goat in Jamaican restaurants, especially and in Indian restaurants.
46:56: Okay. By the way, something interesting that you may not be aware of right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I live and where I'm broadcasting this program, there is a very large and growing
47:12: Nepalese, what's the word I'm looking for, population.
47:19: And there is also at least one, there may be others, but there's a wonderful Nepalese restaurant less than five minutes from where I'm sitting called
47:33: Yak and Yeti. And I absolutely love that place. Yeti, huh?
47:38: Yeah. You know, a play on the Himalayans where there's been the
47:44: Himalayan version of Bigfoot, you know, sightings, so -called. But if you guys are ever passing through Carlisle, maybe we could get some kind of a meeting arranged.
47:56: It'd be interesting. Yeah. I think that the one food that I really liked is called a mumu, which is like a dumpling.
48:04: That's great. You know, they have various sauces for it. It's wonderful. Yeah. They probably have that at Yak and Yeti.
48:11: But now, Paul, before we go to our break, why don't you pick up where Eddie left off and let us know something else about your trip?
48:21: Yeah. So this man, Samuel Rye, that we keep on mentioning, his story is very incredible to see how
48:29: God raised up this man. He, as Dr.
48:35: Walter calls him, the Spurgeon of Nepal. You know, he's very, not only is he totally given over to the ministry and to the planning of churches, but also to philanthropy and orphanages and schools, you know, because they have that caste system out there.
48:55: And he came out of the lower caste. And so he's dedicated to these the lower caste people and the children.
49:05: And he's got he built a school. He's got like 700 people in that school. We've gone and visited them.
49:12: It's English only. He teaches them English so they have every advantage when they grow up.
49:19: And the prime minister or the president of Nepal came and dedicated the school.
49:27: You know, he still has got connections with the Communist Party in there. And he can go places and do things that people aren't allowed to do.
49:35: The government lets him, gives him a free rein because he in fact, when I was taking him to the airport one time, when he visited the
49:43: States, he was called by the minister of defense, you know, from on the way to the airport.
49:49: So he, he, he uses these connections for the gospel. And, but he's very, very linked to,
49:57: I think he's adopted like 10 children himself. He, he's very given over to helping the people of Nepal.
50:06: So that's one thing he he's planted. I think he's been involved in planning of 125 churches and they have all grown and they've planted other churches.
50:18: And it's now there's a, an organization of 350
50:23: Baptist churches that are directly related to him. And he's, he's the, the chairman of this organization.
50:31: And that, that organization is what put on the conference for us out there in Chitwan.
50:39: They are, they all, he says 95 % of them adhere to the 1689, which is extremely rare in these countries.
50:47: You know, so he's a fully a sovereign grace in what he teaches. And he loves for us to on the doctrines of grace as well.
50:57: You know, as a, as a, as a communist general, he was one of four communist general,
51:04: I think that Eddie was talking about. And he got ambushed and he got, he was shot in the head.
51:12: He lost like a thousand. He was commander of 14 ,000 troops got shot in the head and two other of his men fell on top of him.
51:22: And so the next morning when they're making sure everybody was dead on the field, they shot the two men laying on top of him.
51:29: And he was, he was unconscious because he was shot in the head. Well, he wakes up and he realizes he's being hunted and they're hunting him down.
51:38: So he goes to a candy maker who was a
51:44: Christian. Now mind you, there's only maybe 1 % of Christianity in Nepal, and this was back 30 years ago.
51:53: So there was even less than, and so he goes to this candy maker and hides out and helps them make candy.
52:00: And so he's outside of the shack. We was able to house him on the candy maker's property and he's drinking some wine and the, the owner of the candy factory walks by and he says, would you like to have a glass of wine with me?
52:16: And the candy maker says, no, I'm a Christian. And he gave him a track.
52:23: And that track was, was translated into Nepalese somehow. And he read that track and God converted him from that track.
52:31: And, and the story goes on. He had to, he had to, he had to, he had to run because they're, because both the communist party wanted him dead and the king wanted him dead.
52:42: So he had to, he had to exile into, into India and he began, became a street preacher.
52:50: And from there he realized that he didn't have enough knowledge of the Bible. And so he gets through some connections.
52:58: Peter Masters of Metropolitan Tabernacle says, come over here. I'll teach you.
53:03: I'll teach you English and teach you, teach you the Bible. So he got a seminary degree from Peter Masters.
53:11: And then he went over to Indonesia and got his PhD there. But, and he came back and he just started with a
53:19: Bible study with he and his wife and his, and his sister.
53:24: By the way, we have to go to our midway break right now. Please use this time wisely. Try to respond to as many of our advertisers as you can, keeping in mind that our advertisers are what keeps us on the air.
53:37: Next, of course, to the sovereign grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. But please send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com
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01:10:24: Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr. Eddie Dalcor, as they discuss their recent mission trip to Nepal with First Love Ministries.
01:10:35: And I don't know if you finished that story, Dr. Nelson, but you can pick up where you left off if you desire to.
01:10:41: Okay. Well, just, there's a couple things that I'd like to remember.
01:10:49: One is that he's very concerned for, there's a big human trafficking problem out there in Nepal, and parents sell their daughters away, and he's committed to protecting these young ladies.
01:11:05: So he has what they call the Deborah Society, and we were allowed, well, he invited us to participate in their graduation ceremony.
01:11:16: There's 17 young ladies that were taught the Bible, six months of Bible study, and they were taught hygiene and first aid, which is critical out there.
01:11:32: And also they were taught a way, a wherewithal to make, you know, some money, and that is by sewing.
01:11:39: They're all taught sewing. So we gave away new sewing machines to all 17 of these young ladies.
01:11:46: So I just want to, you know, just bring the character of Dr. Rai out, you know, how he's committed to his people in Nepal.
01:11:55: The other thing, too, that I wanted to mention is that First Love did something they haven't done before, is that we've commissioned, so to speak, two
01:12:09: Indigenous missionaries, one within Nepal and the other one in India, in Nagaland, India.
01:12:19: And right now we're working with them. We're training them. Dr. Rai is their mentor, and one's going to Nagaland in an area where there are
01:12:29: Baptist churches, but no Sovereign Grace Baptist churches. And we will be planning a church with him, and after about a year or so, we're going to evaluate them and see, you know, truly as God called them to this work.
01:12:45: But it's very exciting for us, because I've known one of them, the one from Nagaland, I've known for about eight years, and just a tremendous man.
01:12:54: And when we talked to him about this, he just dropped on his knees and said, please pray for me.
01:13:00: And we all prayed for him. It was really wonderful to see his heart and that. So those are basically things
01:13:07: I want to mention. I could go on about Dr. Rai. It's really, he's got a tremendous story, but he's very faithful to the word of God.
01:13:19: And I think what God has used him so much in is that he's raised up a man that has such a compassion, you know, like if there's a flood, he's going down there bringing them bags of rice and goats and stuff like that.
01:13:40: He loves his people, and God's blessed that, because he's blessing this work.
01:13:46: And we're so happy to be a part of this work and helping him and equipping these ministers.
01:13:53: We get like, the one we went to probably 150,
01:13:59: Eddie, you think, 150 pastors and maybe 250. The one we went last year was maybe 200 pastors.
01:14:07: And they come from all around Nepal, Bhutan, and India. And it's just such a blessing to be able to see the hunger they have for the word of God.
01:14:22: We come home to the United States and, wow, where's the hunger here? But there, it's just amazing.
01:14:28: And, you know, and they're doing this kind of underground, because there's what they call an anti -conversion law in Nepal.
01:14:37: And if you get caught trying to convert somebody to Christianity, it's a five -year jail sentence.
01:14:43: So all this is cut. But if you're in a building like we were, there's, you know, there's no risk at all.
01:14:50: But I've known a couple of pastors who've been thrown in jail, not for five years, but, you know, maybe a few months.
01:15:01: So they live with that hanging over them. The Hindus really, the militant Hindus really wanted to squash everything
01:15:08: Christian. And we did hand out, you know, some tracts,
01:15:15: I guess, that would probably constitute, you know, trying to convert somebody. But it was, it's not really enforced.
01:15:23: I think they fulfill the law. If they want to use it, they can. But they really don't enforce it.
01:15:30: At least I haven't seen it such. Anyway, so that's what I want to make sure
01:15:36: I brought those two things out. Now, I'm assuming from what you said before about the dominance of Hinduism, that these anti -conversion laws are being mandated by a
01:15:47: Hindu government. Yeah, but I think they really have.
01:15:53: I was there when they passed the law. There's rioting in the street, and it's just basically a copy of India's law, anti -conversion law.
01:16:02: Now, is it a prohibition of conversion only to Christianity or to anything else other than Hinduism?
01:16:11: I think it's, I believe it's anything else. But and, you know, it's a country which is not supposed to be religious at all.
01:16:20: But there's so much tradition. Hinduism, that's where Hinduism started, is in Nepal.
01:16:26: And it's been there for thousands of years. So it's in the culture. It's in there in the way they're brought up.
01:16:34: So, you know, there's over like, I think there's 330 million gods in Hinduism.
01:16:42: And I've been Kathmandu. Every corner you're on, there's a shrine to some different god.
01:16:50: I went to, you know, it reminds me of the Apostle Paul in Athens. You know, he was incensed when he walked around, you know,
01:16:59: Athens and just saw, you know, gods, these gods everywhere. They said there was gods and residents in Athens at the time.
01:17:08: So it's kind of like that. And even we went to a museum in an old temple, and there was a shrine to an unknown god.
01:17:17: So it really reminded me of the Paul, in case they forgot a god, they had the unknown god. So but they're steeped in Hinduism.
01:17:25: They really are. And we have a listener named
01:17:31: Augie in Chicopee, Massachusetts. Augie asks, in regard to the
01:17:38: Christians that were already established in churches in Nepal before you got there, what is the most prevalent thing that you have to unlearn them about?
01:17:50: In other words, mistakes they make in either theology or practice? Yeah, I think you probably would comment good on this.
01:17:59: One that I remember is that we had a question and answer period after we all we preached every day for four days.
01:18:07: And at the end of the day, we'd have a question and answer period. One of the things that came up was speaking in tongues and the charismatic movement.
01:18:16: So we that was one area that it's kind of circulating there in Nepal. Yeah, it seems like that's across the board.
01:18:27: Because I have this another reason why I'm so encouraged to go on these particular trips.
01:18:33: Chris, as Paul knows, I have this philosophy, if we don't tell them, somebody else will.
01:18:41: And if we don't give the proper message, someone else is going to give a message that that's unbiblical. I've seen this around the world, travel around the world, just a residue of bad theology.
01:18:52: Even if it's Christian, just because it's Christian doesn't mean it's great theology.
01:18:59: But chances are they're being evangelized by and this is very popular around the world is deliverance ministries.
01:19:06: I just saw an ad on Facebook and a large organization or church is recruiting missionaries to do they call it evangelism and deliverance and healing ministry.
01:19:18: That's their message when they go out. So, you know, when we go out to these places, as Paul said, we do see the residue of different charismatic views that the ones that are unbiblical.
01:19:31: And we also see faulty views in sanctification, especially in places like Philippines, where you know, it's okay as long as you love the person to live together.
01:19:41: You know, is that wrong if I'm going out on, you know, with my boss? I mean, these are questions that we've gotten on radio stations.
01:19:48: So there's a extreme lack of knowledge of sanctification. And then we get to doctrines of the
01:19:55: Trinity. Unfortunately, I would say we have the same problem out here in the
01:20:03: United States. Christians just don't see the Trinity as very important or as, you know, as an essential doctrine.
01:20:10: It's all semantics. That's why the Christian too many Christians will see oneness and Trinitarians in the same.
01:20:16: You know, hey, they both love Jesus because they don't know the differences in Nepal. These doctrines, you know,
01:20:24: I just know there's not a strong presence. But I will say with Samuel Rye's leadership, it's different because he makes sure, and especially in the school, you know, the
01:20:36: Grace Bible University, Samuel Rye and his churches as best he can. He makes sure that these kind of essential doctrines, not only the deity of Christ, but the doctrines of grace, election,
01:20:49: God's sovereignty, these kind of doctrines are being repeated over and over and over.
01:20:56: But there's still issues also in church administration, you know, the woman's role in church.
01:21:02: We see that a lot in different places. Of course, out here, out here is probably the worst.
01:21:09: But even in the Philippines, in different areas, there's that problem to contend with.
01:21:14: There's a whole lot of work for us to do, Chris. And that's why I'm very glad of a radio station like yours that's really helping and benefiting so many because you deal with guests and topics that have to do with essential doctrines and very interesting topics.
01:21:33: So I'm so, you know, I'm always grateful for teaching pastors and I'm grateful for teaching radio shows like yours,
01:21:41: First Love. We need this. This is what we need. And it's so, so utterly important because we do go to Nepal in these places and we're seeing a lack of doctrine, a lack of just knowledge on these kind of things of sanctification and theology.
01:21:56: OK, we have Antonia in Cherryland, California. And Antonia wants to know, in regard to the
01:22:05: Christians in Nepal, even the American or European missionaries there, is there any strain of anti -Calvinism that opposes your efforts?
01:22:21: You know, I haven't—oh, go ahead, Paul. Well, in our experience there, they were all reforming their doctrine.
01:22:30: So when we go to these conferences to preach at, we don't see it at the conferences.
01:22:36: But I do know there's a bigger, more ecumenical organization that Samuel's involved in.
01:22:46: It's like 1 ,500 churches. And then there it's, you know, the
01:22:52: Charismatics, the Armenians, it's very broad in its doctrine. And so within that group, there's those who might oppose the
01:23:02: Calvinism. But we never encounter it, to put it mildly, yeah.
01:23:09: You know, it's really interesting that I found the places that I have encountered resistance to the reform position are the places who know how to read
01:23:23: English. Why? Because they're getting bad Arminian doctrine, and then they bring it to the conferences.
01:23:30: And we've seen this in, for instance, I've seen this in the Philippines, where they've been exposed to, because they do read
01:23:38: English and they do have resources, they're being exposed to really bad
01:23:45: Arminian doctrine or bad heretics, you know, whether it's T .D. Jakes or Andy Stanley, doesn't matter.
01:23:51: So it's at those places where I've seen the resistance to the doctrines of grace.
01:23:58: It's not, and they always get it from someone, they don't, no one picks up the Bible and all of a sudden they see that Calvinism is wrong and they, you know, they don't know.
01:24:06: In other words, you would have to understand how people pretext and you would have to hear arguments from others, right?
01:24:14: But in Nepal, they don't have the luxury to read all the bad, you know, this is a good part,
01:24:19: I think, about not having a whole lot of materials. They're not having, you know, the materials against the reform position.
01:24:27: They don't have that. They don't, because they don't, there's no materials being promulgated. So they're not reading all that stuff because they don't read
01:24:34: English or, you know, even other predominant languages. So I think that's one of the reasons why we don't see resistance.
01:24:42: I've never, I mean, I've been there, I think, two times now. I've never seen it. I've never heard it in question answer.
01:24:48: I have in the other places where English they can read. And also, this is important too, the leadership in Nepal, Samurai keeps a very theologically tight ship, meaning you can't go outside of a doctrines of grace confession and be a pastor for him.
01:25:11: You just can't because that's just against the doctrines that they so dearly embrace. They're somewhat of a confessional church where they're under parameters, biblical parameters.
01:25:22: You can't believe in, you know, something that contradicts their main core of doctrine, like the reformed faith.
01:25:29: So I think that may be part of it, why we don't see anything like that in Nepal, but we do see it in nations who are exposed to English.
01:25:37: Yeah. All righty, we have
01:25:42: Brandy in Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin. Do any of you speak
01:25:50: Nepalese? And who is the one that translates your free books into Nepalese?
01:25:58: Okay, so Dr. Rai has, I think, four men that translate the
01:26:06: English books into Nepalese. And we had at the conference, everything we do has to have a translator.
01:26:15: And we had four or five translators. It's interesting because some of them have different personalities.
01:26:23: And so ideally, you want a translator that goes, when you lower your voice, they go down with your voice.
01:26:32: When you raise your voice, they follow. But it's interesting because I think
01:26:37: I got one that just wanted to really elevate his voice. It was interesting.
01:26:43: I got him once. Yeah. I don't know if that answers the question.
01:26:52: But we have translators that translate at our conferences.
01:26:59: He also dispatched us out to churches to preach on the day before the conference.
01:27:07: And we had to take translators then. But he's got a lot of resources for doing that.
01:27:15: And is he translating the books as well, or are you still using English? No, he translates all the books we take out there.
01:27:26: Yeah. They're all translated into Nepalese. Yeah, I think that's part of that question. Yeah, we have a competent translator for the material.
01:27:36: And the translators for the speaking part of it, it varies. As Paul said, I had that guy.
01:27:42: And he was awesome because I remember when I was in France, I was at a North African church. And the pastor there in France, he was
01:27:51: Indian, actually. And he didn't speak French. But his translator, this black lady, she was his main translator.
01:27:59: But she was the best. And I always like to meet with the translators before I speak so I can talk about different words, so on and so forth.
01:28:08: But this one, just like the one Paul had and I had once there, this lady in France, when you would lift up your arm, she would lift up her arm.
01:28:16: When you would have some kind of defined expression of whatever you're teaching on, she would have that same expression.
01:28:24: When you would be high in your voice, she would be high. I mean, she was the best because she did all your hand movements, your voice donations.
01:28:30: That's a good translator. And fortunately, when we were in Nepal, one of these guys who I think, how many times did you get that guy,
01:28:37: Paul? It was the last message. I got him just once. OK, I got him once.
01:28:44: And I wish I had him every time. He was so good. It kind of startled me when he raised his voice and like, oh, here we go.
01:28:53: But yeah, he put a lot of enthusiasm into the messages. It was good. OK, we have
01:29:00: Rocco in Kutchog, New York, who asks, because of the militancy of the
01:29:07: Hindus there, do you ever feel like your lives are in imminent danger when you are on your mission field in Nepal?
01:29:17: Yeah, well, I have experienced one where they closed down the airports.
01:29:24: It was right when they passed that law, the non -conversion law, and they had an election and there was rioting in the streets and they were blowing up buildings.
01:29:34: And it was dangerous out in the streets. But that was on an election day.
01:29:41: It's not normal, you know, not usually. But the
01:29:46: Hindus are known for blowing up—the militant Hindus are known for blowing up Catholic churches.
01:29:52: Wow. Yeah. Just Catholic? Or is that just because— It's probably because they're more prominent than any other church.
01:30:03: I felt my life was in danger with some of the food I was eating. And no insult intended to Yak and Yeti in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
01:30:17: The—well, let me go to one more listener question before I ask one of my own. We have
01:30:25: Violet in North Brantford, Connecticut, and Violet says,
01:30:32: Are the Hindus in Nepal ever open to hearing you preach?
01:30:41: Are they friendly? I know that you have already said that there are militant Hindus there, but what about those that just are neighbors to where you are evangelizing?
01:30:51: Yeah. I think they're open. We don't—we didn't do a lot—we didn't do open -air evangelism like we—I think we have done some extent of it in other countries, but here we didn't do open -air.
01:31:05: But some of—I found some of the people on the street walked around. You know, some would peek their head in and listen, but I didn't find any hostility.
01:31:14: Of course, we were inside the four walls of a church, but they're such a nice people. That's what
01:31:19: I—you know, when the conference was going on, I—actually, I was hungry.
01:31:25: I was walking around the street, see if I can get—you know, there's—it's a small little village, and everyone just said, hi.
01:31:32: And as though if I asked, hey, you know, I'm really hungry. Do you have anything to eat there? You know, they're, yeah, come on in. But they were just the nicest people.
01:31:40: And I think, aside from militant Hindus, I think the average Nepalese person, you know, it seems he would listen, you know, but I didn't find any hostility, nothing at all like that.
01:31:53: But of course, we were, you know, a village and inside a church. Yeah, we used to go out in the street and evangelize.
01:32:01: We printed out a bunch of booklets of the Gospel of John and have them translated into Nepalese.
01:32:10: And we would offer these books when we go to a restaurant or out in the street, and they were so thankful to get it.
01:32:16: And they said, oh, I've heard of Christianity. Thank you. And they'd all say thank you, very, like Eddie was saying, they're very gracious people, for the most part.
01:32:29: Well, before I take any more listener questions, I do want you to elaborate more on a new book that is, from what
01:32:43: I understand, Dr. William Downing's magnum opus. Please tell,
01:32:49: I want to get him back on my program. It's been far too long since Dr. Downing has been on my show.
01:32:55: But if you could whet the appetite for our listeners now about this systematic theology.
01:33:05: And if maybe we could start with Eddie since the last one to speak was Paul. Yeah, actually,
01:33:12: Dr. Downing is so amazing. I mean, he's actually still writing books.
01:33:17: And if you ever read anything by Dr. Downing, you know, he's a detailed writer.
01:33:25: Theologically, I mean, he will give you every exegetical linguistic nut and bolt, you know, in whatever topic he is.
01:33:32: So it's always a it's it. And he doesn't write in a super challenging way.
01:33:38: But he has an awesome I mean, he's written so much. But his newest book,
01:33:44: Dr. Downey's newest book that he just published, by the way, for everyone listening, it's it's it's available at First Love Publications.
01:33:52: First Love Publications. It was just printed yesterday. And we will
01:33:57: First Love Publication. We'll be giving it away freely to all attendees at the conference. But you must register online at first love ministries dot org.
01:34:08: Please come to the conference if you're in proximity at all. Please drive. Please come to the conference.
01:34:14: We'll be given that systematic theology book away. And that's what it is. It's a systematic theology.
01:34:20: And it may be as you know, hopefully it's not his last work, but it may be his last work.
01:34:26: But it's one of his greatest works, because systematic theology is such a such a for every
01:34:32: Christian needs a systematic theology goes from, you know, Genesis, a revelation in terms of a in terms of theology, from from the kinestheticity issues to creation to eschatology and everything in between.
01:34:47: And Dr. Downey just wrote a proficient and which we it's such an awesome systematic theology.
01:34:55: But that's his last work. He or that's the last one he did just got published, just got printed yesterday.
01:35:02: Great books. His systematic theology. Well, praise God. And I'm assuming knowing
01:35:09: Dr. Downing, this is coming from a reformed Baptist perspective. I yeah, yeah, in the framework of a reformed
01:35:19: Baptist reformed Baptist. But, you know, every
01:35:25: Christian can benefit because, you know, the distinctives are not monumental when you're talking about Baptist reform and and say,
01:35:37: Presbyterian systematic theology. So when you're looking at doctrines like the Trinity, the deity of Christ, sanctification, you're going to get a coterie of detailed theology.
01:35:49: And you're going to come out of there. You're going to read and you're going to see things that perhaps you didn't see before in terms of the teaching of the hypostatic union or justification.
01:35:59: Yeah, it's his systematic theology book. And I read a lot of his other systematic type works, his catechisms.
01:36:07: And he's a great writer just as a writer. He's a great writer. And you're not going to miss any detail in theology.
01:36:15: Yes. And he is, for lack of a better phrase, he is an elder statesman amongst reformed
01:36:24: Baptists. He is highly regarded by the majority of reformed
01:36:30: Baptist churches that have especially have been around long enough to remember the resurgence of Calvinism amongst
01:36:40: Baptists in the United States that really became noteworthy, probably starting in the late the late 1950s and the 60s and 70s and so on.
01:36:54: And he is really if anybody in our audience is unfamiliar with his name, you should become very familiar with his writings and his sermons.
01:37:05: I'm assuming his sermons are on Sermon Audio, but I'm sure you must be able to hear them somewhere, even though he is retired now from the pastoral ministry.
01:37:14: But he is just a precious gem and gift to the body of Christ.
01:37:19: And I've loved every interview and I look forward to having him back on if he is physically up to it.
01:37:26: I love hearing Dr. Downing speak. I mean, when I first met him in the early 2000s and Paul's known him forever.
01:37:32: But when I first heard him speak, I just you just don't want him to end. He's so he's always been so interesting and he's not it's you know, the way the way he draws out a some kind of exegetical point or or sermon.
01:37:50: And he's not surface. You know, you're going to get you're going to get a an exegetical treatment in whatever he teaches.
01:37:57: And he brings that he does. He's a wordsmith and he brings us to the table. He's one of my favorite speakers.
01:38:03: And it's interesting, my friend, my friend, he went to a lecture and it was
01:38:10: FF Bruce. And to listen to FF Bruce speak, you have to love theology because he's just a monotone speaker.
01:38:20: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, you know, and he's really good if you love theology. But Dr.
01:38:26: Downing, he's not a monotone speaker and he you can you can just hear the passage it pass passion and theology and evangelism and in teaching when he speaks and credible speaker.
01:38:38: And I know at these conferences when he used to attend regularly, when we used to have it up north, these conferences, he would always have a new
01:38:45: Greek word for me. I had something I want to give you, you know, an apology to us, you know, or some kind of Greek word.
01:38:52: But he was he's one of my favorite guys. He's just and he's a good friend, too. And he's funny. He I don't know if, you know, people that know him know this.
01:38:59: He has such a a funny sense of humor. So I like about him, too.
01:39:05: Well, we have to go to our final break. And if you have a question for Dr. Paul Nelson and Dr.
01:39:11: Eddie Delcourt specifically about their trip to Nepal, but it could be on a broader range of subjects, especially involving the doctrines of grace.
01:39:21: Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com. Don't go away. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.
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01:47:10: That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining
01:47:16: Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.
01:47:45: Chris Arnzen here, host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio. I strongly recommend a church
01:47:51: I've been recommending as far back as the 1980s, Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
01:48:00: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
01:48:09: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
01:48:15: God in spirit and truth. They endeavor to maintain a God -centered focus and to protect worship from the intrusion of carnal entertainments and distractions.
01:48:27: Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
01:48:40: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbc -nj .org.
01:48:49: That's gcbc -nj .org. Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.
01:49:00: That's 908 -996 -7654. Tell Pastor Dunn you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
01:49:13: I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, a
01:49:33: Christ -centered, gospel -driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York, and play our role in fulfilling the
01:49:41: Great Commission, supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family.
01:49:52: At Lindbrook Baptist Church, we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired
01:49:58: Word of God, inerrant in the original writings, complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
01:50:09: We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
01:50:26: Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living, good works, and appropriate respect and concern to all who bear
01:50:34: God's image. If you live near Lindbrook, Long Island, or if you're just passing through on the
01:50:39: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.
01:50:46: That's L -Y -N -Brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church, reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
01:50:58: It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast of the
01:51:05: Lord's blessing and knowledge of himself. And I am so thrilled.
01:51:12: I am almost speechless. That's hard for me to be speechless. But I wish
01:51:18: I could adequately express my gratitude to Sal D 'Antona, one of the elders at Lindbrook Baptist Church, that you just heard.
01:51:31: Sal just informed me very shortly ago that the
01:51:37: Lindbrook Baptist Church in Lindbrook, Long Island, has renewed their advertising sponsorship of this program.
01:51:42: So I want to thank you so much, Sal, for giving me this wonderful news as the well is on the brink of running dry here financially.
01:51:52: And we just thank God for you and your faithfulness and your generosity and your benevolence and for your belief in what we are doing here at Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:52:04: Thanks again, Brother Sal, and I hope to see you face -to -face very soon. We are now back with the final segment of our interview with Paul Nelson and with Eddie Delcor.
01:52:16: And perhaps I think since there's two of you here, we better have you both summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.
01:52:28: And I'll start with Paul Nelson. I believe and I pray for revival, and I mean a true revival where it's not a called -out meeting, a revival meeting.
01:52:42: It's when God sweeps across a country or a city, and multitudes are saved.
01:52:49: And we've had, you know, we start with Acts chapter 2 and 3 ,000 being saved.
01:52:56: And I believe in revival today, and I see it. We've been talking about Nepal.
01:53:02: I think this is probably, I can tell you stories about Nepal where God is doing a great work in Nepal, and it's growing.
01:53:11: It's growing church by church, and it's a wonderful thing. So my closing note would be, you know, pray for revival.
01:53:21: Pray for true revival. We see it not only in foreign lands. We would see it in our own country.
01:53:27: Our country is in great need of revival. And Eddie.
01:53:35: My closing statement, first, and thank you again, Chris, for having us on our show.
01:53:41: And it's really interesting because there's not a lot of shows like yours that have, you know, that really have not only the substance and the particular guests you have.
01:53:51: But, you know, listening to your show, I think a lot of folks have faith that there's teaching pastors out there, because those are normally the people that you have on their show.
01:54:02: So I wish there was more shows like yours. But my final note is really to encourage all
01:54:09: Christians, to encourage all Christians, whether professionally or not, but I mean it in a, probably since most
01:54:18: Christians are not, probably a non -professional way, to really take serious the biblical calling of being a theologian, meaning to grow in the grace and knowledge of our
01:54:29: Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And that comes from studying the word of God, to be an apologist, to be equipped not only to set your, set
01:54:42: Jesus as Lord, set him apart as Lord in your heart, but be equipped not only to defend the faith, but to positively affirm the faith.
01:54:51: Because apologetics without a positive affirmation is meaningless. So I want to encourage
01:54:56: Christians to understand how to give a positive affirmation. It is a serious thing, ministry is serious business.
01:55:02: And you don't have to do it professionally to be in ministry. You may see an opportunity,
01:55:08: God may bring an opportunity to you at the laundromat or at the store or with your mechanic, but be equipped to share the simplicity of the gospel and be equipped to defend if needed, to defend the gospel of Jesus Christ.
01:55:22: And that is the calling for all Christians to be theologians, to be apologists, to be evangelists.
01:55:29: Just by way of studying God's word. So you're equipped to do these things.
01:55:35: And God is so graceful. God is so sovereign that he puts the people in place to do the work of his accomplishments, to do the work of a minister, to do the work of everything that he accomplished, everything that he ordains.
01:55:53: And we just pray that God will use us more and more and more. And it really does start.
01:55:58: And this is really encouraging, not only to myself, but to all people who want to go in ministry as well.
01:56:04: And even the average Christian in 1 Peter 3 .15, which all the up -and -coming apologists would use to show that we have to give a defense for our faith, but also says to give a reason, a positive affirmation.
01:56:20: But the only commandment, Chris, in that verse is in the very first line, set apart
01:56:27: Jesus Christ as Lord in your heart. Set apart is the only commandment in that entire passage.
01:56:36: Everything else should follow. But we have to, as Christians, to set Christ as Lord of our life, set him apart in our hearts.
01:56:45: That's what we have to do. That's what we're called to do as Christians. So that's my final note. And I want to encourage
01:56:51: Christians everywhere and pray for us. Pray for our up -and -coming trip to the
01:56:57: Philippines, and please pray for First Love Ministries. Pray for our conference. Pray for the work of First Love Publication and the free books that we offer.
01:57:07: And all the work that we do outside of this country as we'll be going international soon. Hopefully in April, we'll go to Philippines, then back to Nepal.
01:57:16: We need your prayers. Prayers are powerful. And I ask the listeners also keep Chris Arzon and this program in your prayers as well.
01:57:24: We need the people of God to support us. If you can't financially, yes.
01:57:30: But by prayer, we need the prayer, especially as those of us who are traveling.
01:57:37: So I just ask the listeners to do so. It's the greatest thing
01:57:42: I think Christians can do for other Christians is to give in that way, to prayerfully give, if you have it, whatever you can, whatever your gifts are, to give to the work of Christ.
01:57:56: Amen. Thank you so much. And I want to remind our listeners of the website for First Love Ministries.
01:58:02: Very easy to remember, firstloveministries .org. I also want to remind our listeners that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Botafogo and Associates.
01:58:14: If you're the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, call 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.
01:58:25: 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Also, do not forget, all men in ministry leadership are invited to the next free biannual
01:58:36: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon on Thursday, June the 6th, 11 a .m.
01:58:42: to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is in Perry County, Pennsylvania.
01:58:49: Dr. Joel Beeky is our keynote speaker for the very first time, and not only is admission free and the food free, every man in attendance gets a heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me and also generously donated by Christian publishers all over the
01:59:07: United States and the United Kingdom. And typically, Tom Smith, a representative of First Love Publishing, has a table there as well where he gives away free books.
01:59:17: I hope that he can make this one as well. I wanna thank everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater