Zack Eckert Interview (Part 1)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is

Mike Abendroth, and I'm your host. Our slogan around here is, Always Biblical, Always Provocative, Always in that Order.

And it's really my desire to get you to open up your Bible, and if you open up your Bible and begin to read, you will see the glories of Christ Jesus.

You'll see Him in the Old Testament as the themes point to Jesus, and you'll see

Him in the New Testament as well. And so that's what we're about. Maybe we should call ourselves Always About Jesus, Always About Jesus, Always in that Order.

And here I sit again, laughing at my own jokes. Today I have someone actually in the studio.

Sometimes we'll interview people, sometimes we'll critique people, but actually today I have somebody that I'm going to critique and interview in my office at the same time in my study.

Zach Eckert is here, and Zach is from California, or lives there now. Zach, welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

Well, thanks for having me on the show, Mike. Tell me, Zach, why would I—I mean, this is No Compromise, this is supposed to be provocative and supposed to be wild and pushing the buttons, and you're such a mild -mannered young man.

Why would I have you on this show? I don't know. Maybe you're losing your edge. Maybe I am. Zach is a friend of mine, a family friend, and he lives in Santa Cruz.

Zach, give me kind of a nutshell on what you do in Santa Cruz, and why are you on No Compromise Radio?

Well, in Santa Cruz, I live there with my wife. I'm 26 years old. 26! I'm double your age.

You could be my son. That's a scary thought. Okay, keep going, sir. Did he just say what

I thought he said, that's a scary thought, like that if I was his dad, that would be scary, or just the age difference?

No comment. Okay, keep going. But, California, I work in the professional aspect.

I work in a corporate job, and I have two other part -time jobs, firefighting and personal training. But apart from that,

I preach occasionally. About once a month, I preach at a convalescent home, and then about every month and a half, two months,

I preach at a church there. Well, Zach and I have known each other for a couple years now, and I've preached at that convalescent home, by the way.

That's where Grandma Evie was for many years, and some of the nurses there and the staff. And I like Zach because he has lots of things going on.

Did you notice that? Corporate America, firefighter, and personal trainer. I like that.

Do you ever do any personal training to the firemen at the station? A little bit. Okay. Good.

Well, Zach's out here visiting, and Zach just taught the youth group a Thursday night passage of the

Bible. Zach, tell me what you did Thursday night with the Bethlehem Bible Youth Group, and then why would you pick such a topic, and what was your theme?

Well, the theme of it was sexual purity, how it's God's will out of 1

Thessalonians chapter 4. And part of it was I was encouraged by a friend of mine, a radio host.

That's good. At least that was my disclaimer before I started preaching. It's like R .C.

Sproul, you know, he goes to a MacArthur conference, and MacArthur says, you know, I want you to preach on holiness, and so therefore

Sproul is bound to do such a thing. And so when you came out here, you know, why don't you speak to the youth group.

Have you done a lot of youth ministry? A little bit. I used to be an intern for a college group, and then also an intern for a high school group.

Well, while I'm thinking about youth ministry right now, Zach, before we get into more of your background and passions and all that, tell me what you think about evangelical youth ministry in general.

I think there are some good things that are going on in, I almost said corporate America, in the United States, in evangelicalism, and some bad things.

Let's start off with bad things and then go to good things. Youth ministry in general. Well, bad things would be a focus where the whole focus is on entertainment.

You know, let's just play with the kids. There's a kid, there's a young guy who's in one of my Bible studies, and the youth group he went to, it was turn in a question for the pastor, and I'll answer the question, and then let's just watch a movie or play a game.

That was youth group for him. You know, one of the things I've noticed as a pastor, there's nothing wrong with a movie, there's nothing wrong with a game, but people in general don't need any goading from pastors and egging on to watch movies and play games.

So since we are the Bible -teaching church, then I figured it might just be kind of a quaint idea to teach them the Bible. What a novel idea,

Mike. So lots of entertainment. What else is wrong with youth ministry in general, do you think? As, you know, basically someone who's not that far out of being, you know, from being a youth at 26, just what, eight years ago you were in youth ministries.

I mean, the biggest problem is there's no focus on the gospel. I know for myself, not being saved in high school, going to different youth groups as, you know, just kind of I had to because my parents made me, and I never heard the gospel.

There's never a call to repentance, there's never a call to believe and submit yourself to the Lord Jesus.

So removing the gospel from these quote -unquote ministries is devastating for young people.

I think that's kind of a big one, don't you, Zach? It's pretty up there on the list. Well, I was listening to D .A.

Carson a while ago, and he said, all the truth in the Bible is important because it's in the Bible, but some truths in the Bible are more important than other truths.

That is to say, there are hierarchical truths in the gospel. First Corinthians chapter 15, verses 3 and 4, that's of first importance.

And so, when you have a youth ministry and never preach the gospel, A, they don't know what it is, and B, I guess, what happens,

Zach? You assume everybody's a Christian? Is that what they do? Even though they might not say it, I think that's what they do.

They pretty much assume you're a Christian, or, you know, if you kind of do some good things, if you're kind of a nice guy or a nice gal, hey, you're a

Christian. They affirm that. Well, I noticed the other night when you taught First Thessalonians 4 regarding sexual purity, and that's

God's will for your life. Did you tie it together with the gospel, and if so, why? I definitely did, because at the heart of it, you know, in light of what

Christ has done for a believer in coming down from heaven and living the perfect life that none of us could live, and in going to the cross and bearing the wrath of God in our place, and in being raised from the dead the third day, in light of all that, what should our response be?

Lord, Master, how can I serve you? What can I do to obey you? Perfect. And so, see, Christians, in other words,

Christians need the gospel. Jerry Bridges is right. We need the gospel every single day, and then you think maybe there are a few unbelievers there?

Possibly. Possibly. Even at Bethlehem Bible Church, unbelievers in the youth ministry? I don't know. They all had MacArthur Study Bibles.

They must have been... They did. If you were to die tonight and stand before God, and he were to say to you, why should

I let you in? MacArthur Study Bible. MacArthur Study Bible. John even signed it.

But unbelievers, they obviously need the gospel as well, and I think we are doing ourself a disservice, especially to church kids growing up in the church, where they might not be heroin addicts, but they're still unregenerate, they're depraved.

Unbelievers need the gospel too. Tell me about some of your background with knowing churches in Santa Cruz, and they're just a bunch of how -to sermons.

By the way, we're listening to No Compromise Radio. Zach Eckert is here, and Zach is ministering the gospel in California.

Tell me what do you notice with these kind of how -to marriage seminars basically every week?

I guess what I'm trying to say is Santa Cruz Bible kind of shows. Yeah. Well, being that when

I first got saved, I went to some of them. Believe it or not, Mike, I even went to an emergent church.

Oh, you did. I got baptized there. There's kind of an aura about you. Kind of a Swami Vita aura or something, that emergent aura.

Well, I was wondering if we could light a candle. I was wondering if I could just go up and kind of draw pictures of Jesus up on the front.

Keep going. But going to those churches, part of the way God used certain things for me to meet my wife was that I got fed up.

I was going to church every Sunday and starving. I was just dying. I felt like I was just vexed in my soul because what was being preached either wasn't biblical or it just wasn't the

Bible. And it was just every Sunday—I mean, I was getting more out of my own personal Bible study time than I was from the sermon, but I still wanted to be faithful to God's command to be in fellowship.

So I'd go for the purpose of reaching out and encouraging others. Go there to evangelize. Tell me,

Zach, when you were attending that church, was it popular? Was it crowded? Were there a lot of people there? It was definitely pretty popular—Sanctuary's

Bible and then even a church called Vintage Faith, which today it's really blown up. It's all the young people go to it, you know, all the college -age students, they want to go there.

Dan Kimball's the pastor? Yep. Okay. And that was super popular. One thing I noticed about people who give gospel light, it reminds me—I think it was, what is the guy's name who does

Christian Workers Fellowship—Eliph. And Jim Eliph said that these kind of churches are like the children you see on TV during the commercials for, you know, send your money to starving children.

A starving child is—you can see the ribs through their skin and their upper part of their torso, but their stomachs are huge because when you begin to starve, your stomach becomes distended.

And so he said that's a picture, Zach, of the local church that won't feed the people the Bible. They're starving on the inside, and you see their ribs theologically, but their stomachs are huge.

That is to say there are tons of people there. Yeah. So, Zach, tell me a little bit more about your kind of emergent background.

I don't know if we've got a lot of emergent listeners on No Compromise Radio. I kind of doubt it, because we'll whack away on Rob Bell and Brian McLaren and probably

Dan Kimball for that matter. I don't think we've done a show on him, but that'd probably be good No Compromise Radio. Sure would be.

I've met Dan. Oh, yes. I've heard about that story. Okay. I told MacArthur about the story, and maybe we'll tell you on No Compromise Radio another day.

Tell us a little bit more about the emergent churches. I guess maybe I should ask this. Is there anything good in the emergent church, the emerging church?

There might be. I might be sitting here for a while thinking, no. I mean, when

I was there, they had prayer walks or labyrinths and all that. Oh, yeah. Hold on. Stop right there. The labyrinth kind of prayer walk.

What is that? I don't think our people know, but it kind of sounds spooky to me. Black curtains up, and you kind of walk, and there's pillows, and you stop and kind of contemplate certain things.

You'll write down something that you want to change in your life, and then you kind of sacrifice it on the altar or whatever.

Or you do sacrifice it. Is it like a little knife area there with a butcher knife or something? Oh, they'll have like a little cross that you just put it at the cross or different things like that.

Oh, okay. I got you. Do you know in Nebraska, and actually here in a place called Davis Farmland, they have these corn mazes where they'll have corn that's nine feet tall, and they'll make a little maze, and you get stuck in there.

Would that be something similar to the labyrinth kind of corn maze, the contemplative black curtain maze?

Would that be the same thing? I don't know about getting lost in it. They're pretty short. Oh, they are. They don't want you to contemplate too much in the labyrinth.

Why do people do things like that? Could you tell me, is there something biblical, corporate worship, labyrinth prayer mazes?

I've yet to see it in the scriptures, but the big thing behind it is just to have people feel an experience, kind of a spiritual high each week.

Hey, I went and did this, and somehow I'm right with God. The whole time I was at that church, and it wasn't that long,

I never once heard the full gospel preached. I never once heard a teaching on what hell really was.

I never heard a call to repentance. I never heard a, you know, submit your life to Jesus and follow after him.

Take up your cross daily, follow him. Well, isn't it a sad thing, and if you're listening today on No Compromise Radio, listening to Zach Eckert and Mike Avendroth, just talk about the church in general, and we're going to get back to youth ministry in a minute, and you say to yourself,

I get more food, and I get better fed at my home with my own

Bible and my own eyes than I do on Sunday morning. Then there's a problem. Now, there may be an exception because you're a seminary student, and you're learning the original languages, and you're a better theologian than your pastor is, but most of the time, this means that the church is dumbed down on Sunday morning because they're trying to get the unbeliever in.

Then once you capture the unbeliever, then you tell them, you go to the home group on Tuesday night, you go on Wednesday night special studies to get the deep stuff.

Zach, tell me about the kind of preaching that should come from the pulpit on Sunday mornings at any church.

Well, it should be expository. I think the scriptures are pretty clear in setting that example for us, even going back to the

Old Testament where the example of opening the law of the Lord, reading it, and then explaining it to the people that the

Levitical priests were doing. On Sunday morning, it should be centered on the word of God, and it should be from the scriptures.

It shouldn't be about the show 24. It shouldn't be about what the pastor did that week.

It should be about the scriptures, and it should be focused on the glory of Christ. It should focus on all of those things.

Maybe it could be the Braveheart Gospel or the Matrix Mantra or something like that, or whatever the new show is.

What's the new show? The Adjustment Bureau Gospel or something like that. When you said, like in the

Old Testament, you read it, you open it, the word, you read it, and then you explain it. I remember

Al Moll at the Shepherd's Conference probably 10 years ago, Zach, and he said, It's kind of like shampoo, where it says, you know, you get your hair wet, you lather, you rinse, and then the final step on all shampoos is what?

Repeat. So, the pastor gets up Sunday, he opens a Bible, he reads the

Bible, he explains the Bible, and then when he comes back on Sunday night, he repeats it.

So let's talk a little bit more now about youth ministry, because the whole prayer walk labyrinth.

By the way, if you're into prayer walking and labyrinths, and you're into Richard Foster, and you're into spiritual disciplines from these kind of crazy contemplative guys, that's just sheer mysticism, and mysticism is always going to bring you down because it relies too much on you, and you, even if you're a

Christian, have a sin hangover, and so we have the external revelation from God, and that's what you want to hold on to.

So now we're talking to Zach about youth ministry. Even on Thursday night here at Bethlehem Bible Church, what did you do?

What was your philosophy? And what I mean by that, Zach, is you taught a verse -by -verse message, didn't you? I did.

So wherever you go, when you go to the convalescent home— Verse -by -verse. You can even teach a topic verse -by -verse, can't you?

Exactly. So a pastor says, do sexual purity, you say, what passage am I going to preach through? And so, what was your strategy when you were going to go preach to the kids so other people can kind of figure out where you're coming from, and maybe they should have the same strategy in youth ministry?

Well, the strategy is, I want to be faithful to the text, first and foremost, and preach to the glory of God, but, you know, coming with, here's what this said to those people at that time, and here's how this applies to you.

Here's how I make, you know, here's the here and now of how this affects you in 2011.

Good, and did you notice what Zach said, if you're listening carefully? Not, is this applicable?

The Bible is applicable, and it is our job as teachers and pastors and youth ministry leaders to show people how this applies.

Leviticus does apply. Song of Solomon does apply. First Thessalonians does apply, even though these books can be 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 years old.

So how does it apply? That's how we're supposed to show people, not is it relevant or not. I think the Bible's relevant, don't you?

I do. Tell us about preaching at convalescent homes. If you're out there today and you have a rest home ministry,

I applaud that, but I want it to be gospel -centered, because you could be nice to people there, but I think

Mormons are nice when they go visit, and Catholics are nice when they go visit. Boy Scouts are nice. Boy Scouts are nice.

Who are some other nice people? Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts. Zach, I felt really bad the last couple days.

I've eaten some Girl Scout cookies, and I've taken the Girl Scout organization, not the sweet little girls and the brownies and all that, but the organization is as feministic as you can get.

But you know what? I backslid, and I had a couple thin mints. We can set up a confessional later. So what are we talking about again?

This is No Compromise Radio. We're talking about youth ministry. Let's talk some more about that.

Oh no, we were going to convalescent homes. So what's a strategy? How do you start one? What do you do?

What do you preach while you're there? Well, you actually helped me get started at the convalescent home that I'm at,

Driftwood, because Grandma Evie was there. In Santa Cruz? In Santa Cruz. And amazingly, in this liberal place called

Santa Cruz, the staff there want Bible teachers to come in and teach these old folks.

I find it interesting, Zach, that almost any place you go in America with rest homes, convalescent homes, that people can be ...

I even went to a Jewish one. We started one in a Jewish convalescent home in Los Angeles, and once we showed the staff and then the people there, the residents, that we loved them, that we were regular, consistent, that we'd be faithful, they'd let us come in and say anything we wanted.

Because they say religion's good, spirituality's good, getting the people together is good, and we use that as leverage too.

We have one gospel. What's the weirdest thing that's happened to you so far that you've been there at Driftwood? The weirdest thing, the first day

I came in, there's another couple that comes in there, in their 80s, that come in and teach.

The husband does. Oh, I've met them. Oh, yeah. And they're theological bent, and the things that they focus on are a little outside of scripture to say the least, and the guy pretty much, his whole focus is on the

Lord's returning. He has a date and everything, and that's what he mainly focuses on. But he comes in there and just sings hymns, and he's like, oh, what are you doing here?

And I said, well, we were told to come on this weekend and preach, and he said, oh, you're going to preach?

He mainly just sings songs with them. With his theology, we're actually glad he only sings.

Yeah, that's probably for the better. And I said, well, I'm going to preach. Well, how long? I said, well, 15, 20 minutes.

That's what I was encouraged to do, and he said, oh, no, you can't preach for that long. You'll lose them all. I mean, they'll be asleep.

By God's grace, not a single one of them fell asleep. See, I'm glad your wife Charlene had that little prodder thing, and then when they started to fall asleep, she'd whack them, kind of like the

Puritan church back in the old days. Well, she's a good help. She goes around, you know, as soon as I start into the gospel, you know, she just locks the wheels in, chalks the tires.

Captive audience. Well, you think about it. These folks are literally on their deathbed. They might not go anywhere else in their life, and they need to know the truth.

Can people get saved near death, close to death in rest homes? They sure can. Tell me about the gospel that's powerful enough to maybe save somebody who's listening's parents who are stuck in a rest home.

Well, there's one gospel, and that gospel is that Jesus came. He lived the life that you and I couldn't live.

He's the one that was perfect in all he did, and he's the one that went to the cross and bore the wrath of God in place of sinners for those who repent and believe the gospel, who put their full trust in not their own righteousness, not in a good deed that they've done or their church attendance, but they place their full trust in the righteousness of Christ and how he was raised from the dead on the third day.

Boy, so many times people forget substitutionary atonement. They forget these things, and the gospel really is that.

Don't you think? It's just be good. Be better than you used to be, and I don't know about you, but when

I look in the mirror, and especially this happened, I think, when I first was married, although it happens now too, you just have the mirror of your wife in front of you, and you see what a wretched sinner you are.

We are so bad. I mean, do you think this is fair to say or not? I guess it is no compromise radio, that if we could be good enough to get to heaven, then

God was a masochist for pouring out his wrath on Jesus. I would agree. I mean, why would he do that?

Why would this just God say, I'm going to have to punish my son for something he didn't do? That would be like the emergent people saying that is divine child abuse, but we know people are bad to the bone.

I've found in my life in ministry, Zach, that grandmothers have it harder than heroin addicts do in seeing their own unrighteousness, because they don't think they're bad.

What do you think about that? Well, sadly, that's the reality. It's a lot easier for the prostitute, the drug addict, to see, hey,

I'm a wretched sinner. I've fallen short of the glory of God than for the person who's gone to church their whole life, who's punched the time clock at church.

Maybe they went and served some food along the way. Went to Haiti or Japan to help some tsunami victims.

They gave some money along the way. For that person to see themselves as they truly are before God, as not before Jesus' standard of being perfect, just as your

Heavenly Father is perfect, they think they already are. They think they're good enough as they are, and sadly, they've fallen short.

That's right. Now, I did say earlier on the show that we're going to talk about anything positive you see in youth ministry, in evangelicalism.

I know some churches are doing the right thing. Do you have any comments about positive youth ministry things? Definitely. There are some.

There are some faithful youth pastors who are preaching the gospel, who are teaching their kids.

They're getting them excited about the Word of God. I think part of that is part of the duty of a youth pastor is to get up and say, you know what, this is the most powerful book you could ever read, and then read it and teach it as if it is the most powerful thing in their lives instead of get up and be monotone and boring.

The Bible's not boring. That's right. I think that's such a good point because I think the Bible does have this wonderful drama, this drama of redemption.

It's exciting. You read some of the stories, not just about Jesus, but there's all kinds of other accounts of things.

And so Jesus' life is exciting, Old Testament stories are exciting. And so we try to think to ourselves, no, we've got to give the

Bible a crutch with entertainment or drama or some kind of video thing or the message

Bible. When if people would just teach the Bible, it's exciting. Was anybody falling asleep when you were doing the first Thessalonians 4 of God's the avenger of all sex sins?

No. No. In fact, their eyes were wide open. What did you tell them about God wants them to have sex?

What was that story again? Well, I just said that God's created sex. It's a good thing. And he's, and he created it for us to enjoy, but in the confines of marriage.

That's right. And so if you have desires to have sex, that's not a bad thing. I mean, it can be bad when it's affected by the fall, but it's in the context of marriage.

I've said it once, I've said a thousand times, God's sex ethic is not no, it's later in marriage.

And if it's, if you're married now, it's, it's yes and regularly.

We're talking to Zach Eckert here on No Compromise Radio Ministry. Zach, tell our listeners what you'd like to do.

We've got 45 seconds left. What are some of your goals for gospel ministry in the future?

In the future, I would love to go to seminary if possible, and then just continue to have opportunities to preach even at the local church that I'm involved in.

And there's another church that has given me an opportunity about every month and a half to preach. It's not, we don't match up theologically.

It's a little more charismatic. It's definitely a seeker -friendly church, yet they give me the opportunity to preach.

And after preaching on Matthew 7 about entering through the narrow gate, and there's many who are self -deceived and all that, they asked me to come back.

So I just go and try to be faithful to the text and prepare and preach to the glory of Christ.

Zach, thanks for being on the radio station. I know you're a faithful listener of No Compromise Radio. I appreciate that. If you'd like to write us, it's info at nocompromise .nocompromiseradio