Women’s Ministry with Susan Heck

Welcome to The Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content, or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Introducing Susan Heck and the Topic of Women’s Ministry

All right, well welcome to another edition of The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, and I have a special guest today. We're going to talk about, well, women's ministries and discipling women and materials.

But I have with us today Susan Heck. She is with WithTheMaster .org. Now one of the things is that we have a mutual friend, and that's how we got to know each other, and that's Justin Peters. And I should say that as of now, as of the time of this recording, tomorrow will be our Snatch Them From the Flames Home Edition Conference that Justin and I are doing.

But by the time you're listening to this, I think we had a wonderful time. Justin just knocked it out of the park. He did an excellent job, even though it didn't happen yet. But well, it's Justin. I already know that he did an excellent job, or will.

But if you haven't watched the Snatch Them From the Flames Home Edition, it will still be available. We recorded it, unless of course there's technical issues, and I'm speaking in the future, but as if it's the past.

But it will be recorded, and it will remain on StrivingForEternity .org slash online-events, or just go to StrivingForEternity .org and click the online events. You can see everything there. And so Susan, welcome to The Wrap Report.

Thank you, Andrew. Thanks for having me. Now you and I got to meet at the Truth Matters Conference, and I had heard quite a bit about you because Justin really, not to embarrass you at all, but Justin praises your work very, very highly, and to get a praise from Justin is kind of hard.

And so when he praises somebody, I pay attention. So I was glad to get to meet you and your husband at Truth Matters. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Well, I was brought up in a Baptist minister's home, so I grew up knowing about the Gospel and God. And I got saved and baptized three times, but my life never changed. And went off to Moody Bible Institute where I met my husband.

Phil Johnson was his roommate, and Phil Johnson went to my dad's church. My dad baptized Phil, and Phil said to Doug, my husband, my pastor's daughter is coming here and you need to date her because she tends to get in with the wrong crowd.

So anyway, Phil introduced us, and the rest is history. But still thinking I was a believer, but I was not. So basically the first ten years of our marriage, I really tore my house down brick by brick, so to speak.

And at the age of thirty, God arrested my heart. I don't need to go into all the details, but the Lord saved me. I repented of my sin. First time I saw myself as a sinner, and my life really, really changed.

And that was thirty-four years ago. And then after that, I started hungering for the Word like I never had before. I read my Bible every day. I thought that's what Christians did, but it never had any meaning or didn't mean anything to me other than words on a page.

And so my life transformed, began to put off sin, and became under submission to my husband and just wanted to know the Bible. So I started memorizing scripture. My husband had most of the New Testament memorized when I met him.

And so I started that journey myself and actually just completed that this year, completed the New Testament. So I have a passion to help women to be strong in the Word and to know and love God through scripture.

And that is my passion and desire. So that's kind of a nutshell.

That's the short version. So you've got a couple of pastors in your family there, dad, husband, sons. I know. My son, my son-in-law.

Yeah, we do. We're so blessed. So thankful. And my dad was a godly man. He really was. And he exposited scripture. But unfortunately, he was of the vein of decisional regeneration, walk the aisle, pray a prayer.

And so as a child, you know, I didn't want to go to hell. I didn't, you know, my dad preached on hell. And so I didn't want to go there. So most of my decisions as a teenager and a child were emotional.

I really didn't want to go to hell. I didn't understand the gospel. I really didn't understand repentance. I didn't think I was a sinner. I had nothing to be, you know, forgiven of until, you know, God just, he really literally slapped me down and humbled me and I wept and mourned over my sin first time in my life.

And so God, I'm so thankful. And I have a passion for people brought up in the church that know all the religious lingo but don't know Christ. They don't know Christ. No, that doesn't happen. Oh, yeah.

More than you think. Oh, way more. Your ears are full of them. Yes. You know, one of the things that you said, which maybe people heard and went, wait, what? To memorize even a book of a Bible, you know, is something that people think is impossible to do.

But, and I'm going to ask you this question because I've done this myself, not the whole New Testament, but I would memorize book by book, though my problem is I wouldn't keep up with it. So when you don't keep up with it, you end up forgetting it.

But here's what I found in memorizing books of the Bible was, and working at that memorization of it, is even, say the book of Titus, James, Philemon, Philippians, you know, the books, I didn't work at memorizing the Gospels, maybe I should, but what I ended up doing in my own head was developing an outline for that memory.

So I may not be able to tell you specifically what verse in Titus speaks about the older men with younger men and the older women with younger women, but I know it's there and I know what it says, right?

So I know it's somewhere in the middle of the book, roughly, like chapter two-ish probably, but I'd have to look, right? Because I didn't memorize verse numbers. I didn't either. Yeah, because that'd be even harder, but did you find, as I did, that memorizing a book of the Bible actually helps you to get an outline and to get the context of that book?

Oh yes, very much so. I don't teach a book of the Bible until I have it memorized because it's so insightful and helpful. And yes, I do find that. And I'm like you, I don't do one, one, one, two, one, three, but I can tell you, if someone says, where's the chapter in James about the tongue, you know, I could tell you what chapter it is, or where's the chapter about wisdom or, you know, the rich men or, you know, trials or whatever.

So I see that because I've memorized it and I can tell you approximately what verse, you know, it is, but not exactly. So, because chapters and verses were added later, they weren't really... Not everyone knows that.

Yeah. When Paul wrote a letter, he wrote a letter. So yeah, it's been a joy.

With the smaller books, what I used to do is I would, I'd just print off the book. I had Emeritus, because that's a smaller book, and I had it printed on back, two-sided sheet of paper that I would fold up and stick into my pocket.

And everywhere I walked, I would pull it out of my pocket. Now I mean, now you have apps. I have an app on the phone that helps me to memorize. And so you could just, you know, it has like games you can play to help with the memorization.

It's called Versus. And it's helpful. But the thing that I really was, it was funny with the book of Titus is I could still remember which parts were right on a line, because I'd fold it in thirds and then in thirds again and slip it in my pocket.

And kind of that third, top third, middle third, and bottom third, I'd memorized kind of in those blocks. Oh, funny. And so I could actually see it on that paper. Oh, that's good. But it was taking, it was really utilizing the time that's typically, you know, if someone's in an office and they're walking to go get a cup of coffee at the cafeteria, it's a great time to sit and as you're walking, don't trip, but pull out a piece of paper, pull out your phone.

And I mean, people are on their phone anyway, instead of texting, memorize, right? So that's right. So let's talk about women's ministry. There's never any problems at all in any church's women's ministry, right?

No, I don't think so.

Oh boy, it's a mess, I'll tell you. It is.

It is a mess. So, I mean, there are many popular women's teachers, people that will write material for women's Bible studies. And I remember, this is many years ago, my wife, we went to church and they started doing a Bible study and they were using Beth Moore.

And she's even worse now than she was, I mean, this is like 20 years ago, 25 years ago. And my wife is sitting in this Bible study and she's going because, you know, we're members of the church, we want to support the events that go on.

And my wife is going, gets to know some of the ladies and talk with them, disciple them. And she's sitting in this study and she's just, my wife's a naturally quiet person. And she's listening to this and she's coming home and she's like, you know, this book is talking this and this and this and they're discussing this and it's just, like, should I be correcting them?

I'm like, well, that's what is wrong, so yeah, she's like, all right. So she goes back and corrects them and says, look, this is what Beth Moore's saying, but this is what the Bible's saying. After like three weeks of that, she just looks at me and says, I'm not doing this anymore.

She goes, if they want to do this book study, I'll wait till they're done with it and do something else with the ladies. I said, why? She goes, first off, I'd rather go to pastor conferences with you than this stuff.

It's just fluff. There's no content. And when there is content, you can't trust it. It's wrong. So she just said, I'm done with it. That was my introduction to Beth Moore and women's studies. And what I found is there are some, Beth Moore would be one, that she is a very divisive person.

Now, what I mean by that is there are people that if you dare say what I just said, that she's full of fluff and has no content or actually says things that are wrong or even worse now, that she says things that are unbiblical, like that she's having dreams of Jesus brushing her hair, it will divide me.

People will actually—I knew of a pastor that just stopped talking to me when I found out that he, in his sermon, had promoted Beth Moore, and I said, are you familiar with her? She claims to have dreams from God and dreams that turn out to be untrue.

He stopped talking to me over that, and I'm like, wait, what? You see, she has become almost this divisive issue where if you don't speak highly of her, people will cut you off. Of course, the thing that always gets me puzzled is they say that they're tolerant.

Beth Moore, False Teaching, and the Crisis in Women’s Bible Studies

Yeah. Well, you know, actually, Andrew, Beth Moore is the reason I'm doing what I'm doing today other than, I mean, God is sovereign and he's the one that's given me—I never intended to do what I'm doing, but about 25 years ago, a friend of mine asked me if I would listen to a video of hers.

She said, do you know Beth Moore? And I said, no, I don't, never heard of her. So I took the video, and at that time, I had just started writing studies for the ladies in my church. So I put it in. It was a VHS, so that tells you how long ago.

Put it in the TV, and my husband watched 15 minutes. He said, I'm going to bed. And I said, well, I'm going to watch the whole thing because I want to give my friend an adequate review of what I think.

So I watched the whole thing, and this is really true what happened. I turned off the television, and I said, Lord, if you want to use me for your glory, I will do it. This is disgusting. And she was—that was 25 years ago—and she was saying, the problem with Christians is they have attention-spiritual-deficit disorder, and the solution is, sit still and know he's God.

And I thought, what? What is she talking about? And so it was honestly, Andrew, through that—I mean, I already had a passion for women and was teaching women, but I never wanted a public forum. I never planned to be an author, a speaker, but I did.

I told the Lord, I will go wherever you want me to go. I will do what you want me to do to help women. This is disgusting. And if she's the one that women are listening to today—you know, like she even said, if I'm America's Bible teacher, America is in trouble.

And we are in trouble. Women that listen to her and follow her—and it's divided, me too, at places I go. But I cannot stand by and not say anything when I'm asked what I think of her. I tell them that she's a false teacher, and there's so much out there now.

And you're right. You're exactly right. She has just become loony. I mean, I don't even know what she's saying anymore. And it's grievous to me. It's very grievous to me. And so I'm with you on that one.

And that's what people gravitate to. That's what women gravitate to, unfortunately. I'm a woman.

And it's puzzling to me that she's gotten the platform she has with not any content. But this is why I think we are hurting in churches so much, because the women in churches, it's like, in my opinion, many churches, what they do is, it's like, okay, the pastor's wife or some other woman teaches a study.

And I know that when I was pastor, there was this expectation my wife would lead a women's Bible study. And my wife's not a teacher. And I think what often happens is churches put the pastor's wife in that position.

They don't want to teach, so they get some material. Beth Moore's popular. Okay, we'll get that. But you're not doing the ladies in the church a spiritual service by giving them material and saying, we're going to read this, and let's not dig in deeply to the Word of God.

I mean, what Beth Moore should have answered with that was not to sit still, but to study to show yourself approved.

Yeah, exactly. Her hermeneutics are despicable. Wait, wait.

She has her hermeneutics? I didn't know she had her hermeneutics. She doesn't.

She doesn't. You know, I've told, well, Kathy Peters, Justin's wife, I've told her because my daughter lives in Houston, and I know where Beth lives. And I really would, honestly, Andrew, I would love to go to her house with the Bible and sit down and talk to her.

She probably wouldn't let me in her door, but just to talk to her face to face, and I just, I'm grieved. And I, you know, the blind lead the blind, they both fall in the ditch, and she's making those women two fold more of a child of hell than she is.

And that's what scares me. And her followers are becoming just like her. And I know because I've dealt with some of them. They're vicious, they're mean, and it's grievous.

It's just grievous to me. Oh, yeah, I don't get, I don't seem to get as much hate mail until I do something about Beth Moore. Then I hear a lot of it. But that's really the thing. You nailed it. Her followers are very vicious.

Are just like her. Yeah.

By their fruit, you will know them. You know, when that thing came out with John MacArthur, you were there when he told her to go home. That's when you and I met. Yeah. But, you know, she has continued.

I don't have social media, I don't do Instagram or any of that stuff, but Kathy keeps me abreast of all this. But she's really just mocked. She's been mocking him since then. And that's one of the signs of a false teacher.

According to Jude, they're mockers. And even if I was confronted by a man I don't agree with, I would not be out mocking him in a public forum like that. That is so grievous.

Well, mocking, but taking him out of context and doing it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, she's not dealing with what he actually said and the context of it. And she's definitely not addressing the context of the day, because just earlier that day at that conference, Justin did a whole thing on hearing the voice of God and showing how, you know, people like Beth Moore are looking for some extra biblical information, dreams, which again, you know, I'll deal with when I go through in the Snatch Them From the Flame seminar, I go through the entire book of Jude on how to identify false teachers.

And you know, and yeah, we'll have a clip of Beth in there. But the thing is that when you see this, you just mentioned something that I think is really important for folks is, you know, being able to go to her house.

Like you're right. If we went to her house, she wouldn't see you or I. But I want, yeah, I know. But she should. I mean, look, I've had the privilege, as I'm sure you have, to get to know people that many of us would look up to in Christian circles, names that are big names.

But I have some of those people, and I'm not going to name the names here, but I know of some people who I've called up on the phone and had to say, look, you know, you said something, I want to get more clarification because I think what you said was wrong.

And you know, there's one individual where I remember calling him up recently. This is someone who's known around the world. And I could call him up and say, hey, you know, I think, you know, that there's an issue here.

And he apologized and was like, you know what, yeah, let me explain that. I didn't word that well, and it gave you the wrong impression. So please forgive me for that. And this is someone who's got a busier speaking schedule than you, which you have a pretty busy speaking schedule.

You're almost as busy as Justin when I looked at it.

Well, not right now, it's all been shut down. It was becoming very busy, but yeah.

You know, but the thing with this virus is, I don't know if you've been doing this, I've been speaking around the world right from my house. I mean, I've preached in India, I've preached in the Philippines, this weekend I'm preaching in Oregon.

And I don't leave the house. I'm actually kind of liking that aspect, but it's not the same feeling as when you're with people, getting to meet them and getting to know them. No, I miss it.

I miss it a lot. But I am starting back in July, I'm going to Florida, so at least I have one out.

You're going to Florida in July. You're supposed to plan those in the winter months.

I know, so we'll see. I'm hoping to resume my schedule soon, but it's in the Lord's hands, and He has given not a lot of other ways to minister. So an online conference, I'm going to be a part of one of those next month, so we'll just see what the Lord has.

What Good Women’s Ministry Should Look Like

Yeah, well, I mean, that is the reason we did this National By the Flames. Justin and I had our schedule freed up, and we're like, well, let's plan something. Let's do something. And we actually thought, gee, May 30th may be too late, and everyone might be out of the house by then, but it turned out well, because everyone else started doing conferences after we started planning it.

But let's talk about what would good women's ministry in a church look like, because I think that, you know, we could look at some of these women and say, okay, this is problematic, and there's some who, I do think that there's some that start off with good intentions, but once publishing companies get involved, it becomes this thing where, well, we got to, you know, soften it so that it appeals to more people.

I know, I have one book that went through a publisher. It's Sharing the Good News with Mormons. There was 24 authors. We all wrote a chapter. It's a very thick book, but I was frustrated with the publishers, because I have a phrase that I've been saying for, you know, going on 30 years, which is that I do open air evangelism.

I share the gospel in the open, you know, for two reasons. One, to clearly communicate the gospel message. Two, to get one professing atheist to tell another professing atheist to shut up. In other words, I want to conduct my behavior in such a way that even someone who hates the message respects the way that I present the message.

And so that's why I call it ambassador evangelism. I need to be a good ambassador. Man, I was fighting with the publisher. Like, look, this is the way I've said it for years. And they're like, I think they worded it like to have one unbeliever ask another unbeliever to be quiet, and like it doesn't have the same effect.

But publishers do that because they want to sell, and I think that that happens. I also think that what ends up happening is pride. I think that pride is a very deceptive... I really became aware of pride in the Christian circles.

I don't know if you know the name Mark Cahill. He's an evangelist. He was a well-known evangelist. And he and I used to be friends. And so we went to this conference. It was called the Deeper Conference.

He was speaking. And there was a line of people out and around the corner to see him, just to talk to him. And he wanted me to give him something when we got to the thing. So I waited. I was kind of off in the hover position, as people call it, like off to the side, waiting for him to finish speaking to someone.

And then I just walked up to give him this set of DVDs that he wanted. And I was just like, I just said, here, I give this to you. And he thanked me, and he wanted to ask some questions. I'm like, dude, you got a long line of people.

I'll talk to you later. Just give me a call next week when we get back home. He goes, all right, I'll call you. As I'm walking away, he said, I'll call you. Well, as he said that, I had three people come right alongside me.

And I'm talking to them, and I realized something at that moment. They really didn't care about me. They cared that Mark knew who I was. And they wanted to get to know me to get to know Mark. Now, I did something that was wrong.

I lied. I actually told a guy, because I actually felt that pride. Like, ooh, look, these people want to know me. And then realized they really didn't. And so I ended up lying and saying I had to go meet someone when I really didn't, just to get away from the guy, because I didn't know how to deal with it.

Now, since then, I've learned how to deal with it. It's one of the reasons when I go preaching with Ray Comfort, I don't do it the Saturday after Shepard's Conference. I'll go out a week before, so I could do it when no one from Shepard's Conference is there, so there's just some believers there.

There's no believers who are going, oh, you know Ray Comfort. So I think those things happen. But could you explain what we should look for with good women's ministry in church? What should that look like?

Biblical Oversight, Expository Study, and Titus 2 Discipleship

Yeah, I can. You know, I believe, first of all, it should come under the umbrella of the pastor and elders, depending on the church government. So everything needs to be approved by them. And in our church, our elders have asked that we just study the Bible.

And so I write my own Bible studies. I've written 13 to date. Most of them, six have been published. The others are on their way to being published. So I write expository studies for women, and they're verse by verse, application, illustration for women.

And so we study the Bible, and if I'm not teaching other women that do teach, it's mainly good, sound theological material. So that's the first thing. It has to come under the authority of the elders.

And then if we do other books, like during the summer, they also have to be approved by the elder board. And so that's just for our protection. And so I think a good, solid women's ministry would be founded on scripture.

And we have small groups. We have leaders that are approved, that know how to facilitate a discussion, that know how to confront error if it's brought up. And so I teach, and then we have discussion time and fellowship.

And then we also have a very active Titus II ministry, where old women, you get together with younger women and disciple them in the areas of domestic things, just the seven-fold curriculum in Titus II.

Teach them how to be sober-minded, love their husbands, their children, be pure keepers at home, and good and obedient to their husbands. So we have, I think that's a healthy women's ministry, where they're being taught the Bible, but also being discipled.

And so in our church, we probably have 90, 95 of our women that are either discipling or being discipled. And again, it's all under the umbrella of protection of the elder board. And so we're just very, very thankful for that.

But definitely, I would not gravitate to women's materials that is based on feelings or psychology. Or I never ask a question like, well, how does this make you feel? It doesn't really matter how it makes you feel.

It matters what God says. And so I try to, we stay away from all that kind of material.

And So you stay away from SYI Bible studies, huh? You know what that stands for?

No, I do not know what that stands for. Show your ignorance.

That's where everyone sits around in a Bible study, having not studied at all, and just go, what does this mean to you? Yeah. Yeah, no, we don't do that.

No, uh-uh. So, and you know, I am thankful. I think there are women out there. I've met them on my traveling excursions. There are women out there that really want to know the Bible, and they really want to be instructed in truth.

But there are far more other women, I think, who gravitate towards the Beth Moore type studies, unfortunately. But again, I think it goes back to leadership. And if your elder board and your pastor is not sound, theologically and biblically, then you're going to have women that are weak, and they're not going to be instructed in things that they should be.

So I'm thankful for the protection of that. But again, I think the, you know, we're just seeing a weakness in the churches all around. It's not just women's ministry. My husband has often said from the pulpit, pastors are politicians and cowards.

And until they can stop being politicians and cowards, the church is not going to be strong in its foundation.

I wish your husband would say what he really thinks. Yeah, he does. Do you think that it could be just because it's easy to do a study that you just pull off the shelf? You don't have to prepare much?

Do you think that's why it's become so popular? Because it's just, it's easy.

It's Probably. Because I did the same thing you did when I first started looking to, you know, to be published because someone said I needed to do it. And I, you know, I would present my stuff to Moody or, you know, other publishers, and they wanted me to cut half of it out.

I go, how can you do that? It's a Bible study. You can't cut out half of it. So through the Lord's gracious, providential kindness, Focus Publishing sought me out and they started publishing and I have a contract with them.

So they published it in its entirety and will, the Lord willing, so I'm thankful. But you're right, people, they just want the bottom, give me the bottom line. Give me the bottom line. And I'm sorry, you know, got a study to show yourself approved, you know, a workman that needs not to be ashamed rightly dividing the truth.

So, I mean, I spend 15 to 30 hours for every message I write and, you know, to study it properly, I do my own outlines. I, you know, like I said, I memorize it before I even teach it. And my husband goes through all my books before they're published to make sure they're theologically correct.

And so that's just for protection, you know, and to offer something out there that women can sink their teeth into, hopefully.

You know, now, you said something that I want to highlight because when I do our Bible Interpretation Made Easy Seminar we teach people how to interpret the Bible in churches. We come in for a weekend and do this.

And one of the things I do at the end is to say, okay, look, this sounds like a lot of work when you lay out all that is required, all that you should be doing to do study of God's word. It sounds like a lot of work.

And if you have a faithful pastor, this is what your pastor's doing every week. So if it sounds like a lot, then you should be praying for your pastor a lot more because this is what a pastor should be at least doing week in, week out.

I know it blows people away when I would say that, for me, a sermon is an average, it used to be about 30 hours, 30 to 40. Now I'd say it's 20 to 30. Just, I think it's reduced because the more you study and the more you preach, there is some that you retain.

Yes, and you learn how to do things quicker. I've learned how to work with my PC study software better. And I've just learned how to know more scripture now. I have a better understanding. So it goes a little faster, but it's a lot of work.

I love it, but it's a lot of work.

Well, in my case, some of it's with my log off set. That definitely saved me time on how to pull books and open them because I can one click and get it. But I have learned how to not go on all the rabbit trails of, oh, let's go and research this now.

Let's look at this. Oh, this is of interest. So I've had to learn to do that. But for people who hear what you just said, that seems like a lot, 15 to 30 hours. But I think this is the problem that we have in church.

I'll even say with Sunday school, a lot of people are familiar with the Answers in Genesis survey that was done where they talked about the reason people were leaving the church was they left when they were in Sunday school because in Sunday school, we teach facts as if it's story.

And then they go to school and they get evolution as if it's a fact. And I think that's partially true. But the other part that I think is true is the fact that who teaches Sunday school? Any warm body, anyone who's willing.

And they don't study. Okay, here's your material. Here's the material you have to teach for tomorrow. They read it maybe the night before. They come in, it's a bunch of, here's some crafts we're gonna do with the kids.

Here's some things we're gonna do. Here's a little story. They haven't studied it out. I mean, when I was a pastor in different churches, I've always kind of had it where we wrote our own material. As a leadership, we provided an outline, but it required about 10 hours of study.

Mm-hmm, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, but it's worth it. And I've got to answer, as Justin often says, I have one to answer to, and that's God. So I better have it downright.

Yeah, I try to say the difference where it's just my opinion and where scripture says.

Yeah, but I want, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, I wanna be accurately dividing the word of truth. And I've seen the changes in our women. They're growing spiritually, and it shows up in their home life and their marriage.

And I'm just so thankful. I go to other churches, and honestly, Andrew, it's grievous. Some of these women, they don't know where the simplest things are in the Bible. And they're struggling with all kinds of issues in their home, but they're just not equipped in scripture.

And so I'm very thankful for the opportunity in my own church and to be able to help women in other areas too.

So anyway, that's all I was gonna say. What I wanna do after this break is I would like to go through some of the resources that you have, because my hope is that people will go to withthemaster .org and check these resources out and start ordering them for their church or having you come out and speak, which it would be a good thing.

Although I did take a look at the website, and I see you did dodge a bullet. I see that May 15th and 16th, thanks to corona, it looks like you dodged a bullet, and you don't have to be out there with Jim Osman at Kootenai Community Church there.

So very good, you dodged that bullet. For folks who don't know, Jim is someone who's been a co-host with me on this show in episodes in the past. And I have speaking at his church several times, but he's a good friend and he used to be our mutual friend, Justin Peters, pastor.

But after this break, I wanna go through some of the resources. What makes your resources different than other resources and what people can expect to learn from them? So let's talk about that after this break.

Ministry Resources, Publishing, and Bible Study Materials

The good news is Striving for Eternity would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks, teaching them biblical hermeneutics. That's right, the art and science of interpreting scripture.

The bad news is somebody attending might be really upset to discover Jeremiah 29, 11 should not be their life verse. To learn more, go to strivingforeternity .org to host a Bible interpretation made easy seminar in your area.