Simply Trinity Study (Part 5)

Well, good morning Let's open a prayer

Our great triune God we come before you this morning. We're thankful thankful that we're

Able to meet thankful that we were able to arrive safely Father we're thankful as we consider our salvation the fact that the

Lord Jesus Christ Would come to earth take on an additional nature that of a human being

Live a perfect life the life that we ought to have lived die a substitutionary death bearing our sins and Then raise be raised gloriously on the third day

That we might know that our sins are paid for father as we look to The Trinity the doctrines that are contained within I pray that you'd strengthen us that you'd help us that you'd encourage us

We pray for these things in Jesus name. Amen So, I mean

I've been encouraged so far I was reading this morning about double constant substantiality, which is a phrase that rolls off the tongue

Okay, if you say so Steve Yeah, I'm sure we'll be talking about that.

But now back to the quiz back to the fun stuff as we say We left off and we finished number 12 and I just noticed a major flaw in my notes

Not really, but okay I just I hate it when I do stuff like this, you know,

I have an a and then it goes B and the B is Blank. Well, that just means that I you know

Messed up, but that's okay number 13 true or false and Remember this always the indelible marker.

The yellow is always correct. Whatever you may think Number 13 true or false if the

Sun is eternally generated He is wholly divine if the

Sun is eternally generated. He is wholly divine What's that?

What do you mean if is pedantic, okay, which means

You say false, but is that a true or false statement if the Sun is eternally generated?

It's true It's a condition that's met right whether you know,

I guess you're It's a ridiculous condition, right? Okay, it's ridiculous, but it's a true condition.

So well

Okay, is it or isn't it in other words what okay, let's let's frame it another way What if we say that Jesus is not eternally generated then what?

okay, then He wouldn't be divine and why wouldn't he be divine?

Because he'd be a created being That's absolutely correct Let me read the what mr.

Barrett says here the Nicene Fathers argued that the Sun is begotten from the same essence of the

Father Eternal generation does not undermine the Sun as co eternal and co equal

That's an understatement The eternal generation safeguards the

Sun as co eternal and co equal Then here's what Barrett says only if he is eternally begotten from the

Father's essence. Is he holy divine? See, so I didn't really change that a whole lot.

Did I? Oh Man it suddenly turned to a political debate.

That's out of context. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Well, you know You'll give the point to dr.

Barrett so I yield If the Sun is eternally generated it's important that he's eternally generated

Because then he's of the same substance as The Father if he's not eternally generated

Then we have it. We have a problem Then there was a time when Jesus came into being if we just say he's generated

Then there was a time where he He did not exist and the Father Created him if we say

Simply that he's eternal then he's not what? We just say

Jesus is eternal There's nothing wrong with that except in the context of the

Trinity If we put it in that context if we say that Jesus is eternal and we're leaving something out, which is the whole framework of his

Well hit divinity or his sonship, right? How does he? How does he become the second person of the

Trinity right I don't want to say his sonship I guess back off His how does he become the second person of the

Trinity? Because he's eternally generated so he doesn't become anything.

He is the second person of the Trinity Yes, no, we cannot say okay, well, let's

That's a fair question, can we say that the let let's back up and tackle these one at a time it's football season

Is the father eternally generated of the son why is the answer no to that a stunned look an absolute

What's that? Okay, I like that. It's kind of like you know what if your parents say something

Can you do X Y or Z no mom said no, you know and that's all there is the creeds say

No that he's not what are the creeds say about the father that he is Unbegotten unbegotten

Which means what he always was

Well, the son was always too. So was the spirit No, because he's the son is eternally begotten.

So it doesn't refer to his his human nature It refers to the relationship between the two.

Here's here's what we could say we could say the father eternally begets the son and therefore the father is

Eternally the father to be a father You have to have a child

True. Okay, so it tells us something about the relationship between the members of the

Trinity when we say The son is eternally begotten The father eternally begets the spirit is eternally

Sorry, I'll use the 25 cent word and then I'll back out for a second. The spirit is eternally spirated

Okay Or we could say simply the spirit is eternally sent and who sends the spirit father and the son

Okay, so again, it just tells us something about the relationship between the three doesn't create a hierarchy

Because if there's a hierarchy we have other problems Including violating as John so helpfully said the creeds and confessions

We're creating a a new Trinity if we if we go against that now I mean you could make arguments for it and people have and they usually fall into heresy one way or the other

Number 13 true or false if the Sun is eternally generated. He is wholly divine true because he is

As Barrett says only if he's eternally begotten from the father's essence Is he wholly divine in other words?

There's this divine essence and You know, it's interesting because how much of the divine essence does the father possess?

100 % how much does the Sun possess? 100 % the

Sun Possesses 100 % so we wind up with the whole, you know, don't try to do this math at home kids

We're gonna have some some mind -blowing issues there number 14

You know what? You know what? I like if I could just as an aside

What I've enjoyed is people talking about this book. I even had somebody in the restroom say yeah

I've only gotten to chapter 3, but I have a question for you in the restroom. It's it's fine. It's good Number 14, which of the following uh -oh

It's not true or false danger Which of the which of these applies to the

Sun? Heteroseal, I'm not even gonna try to say it Heteroseal Heteroseal Different or unlike in essence homo euseus

Similar like essence Okay, or homo euseus

Which you know help me looks like they're exactly the same. I probably misspelled one So forget my spelling

How did I do that, I don't know Look at the English instead different different or unlike in substance similar or like in essence same essence

Yeah, and the answer is same. I mean if you just if you just and you're already doing this if you just think about it well if they have an a different essence then

They're not the same God you have different different gods if they have similar or like essence

Well, then the Sun could be created which is what the Aryans said And if you have the same essence, then you have what we're talking about here the

Trinity Barrett says this he says the Sun is coessential meaning same essence

He shares the same divine essence. He is consubstantial Meaning he shares in the same divine substance

Be gotten from the father's essence from all Eternity the Sun's existence originates from the same eternal divine essence as the father

Which means he is co -equal true God of true God Lest we doubt that and I see a

Leads us to consider the works of God The father creates the world through his son

Unlike Arius who positions the Sun on the side of the created order if you remember how

I tried to Mentally create that picture for you That the the

Sun is a special creation of the father and then through the Sun the first created everything else flows

Unlike areas who positions the Sun on the side of the created order and I see a Identifies the

Sun with the creator himself Indeed as the creator himself

So he has to be of the same Essence same substance as the father

Questions. Yes, Charlie. Well since I mangled it

There you go There you go How many have seen that meme?

I mean, I really should start using a projector in this class the meme where the kids sitting on Santa's lap

And he says, you know, he asked Santa he says And he he uses the two spellings homoousius or homey homo euseus and Santa Claus looks at me goes what and Then the kid says you're not the real

Santa Claus. You're not the real Saint Nick You know because the real st. Nicholas knows that knows the difference between the two

No Giving Santa Claus theological quizzes. I like that And if your kid knows that much

You got a you got a preacher on your hands number 15 true or false The Sun's essence is his attributes and his attributes are his essence.

I'll just appeal to Andrew Smith Professor of all things Well, wait a minute now.

Come on. Well, let me change the question then true or false God's essence is his attributes and his attributes are his essence.

It sounds exactly like the simplicity of God Thank you. I'm not gonna fire

Andrew, but I gotta listen pal for that rope

All right The answer is true All right,

I and I I am a simple -minded guy but let look listen this Barrett Barrett says one important step forward can be credited to Athanasius Who defended the eternal generation of the

Son from the Father by appealing to? Divine simplicity In theology simplicity does not mean

God is elementary or basic In other words, God is simple not because he's basic or because he's elementary

It means God is made up of or composed of or compounded by parts that that would mean

Oh, he's not made up of that. In other words, if you could say that God is He's holy.

He's loving he's Just he's Give me some more attributes

Anyway, if you line up all the attributes you can name and you say well then all those attributes make up God and the survey said the survey said

Why because he's not made up of parts Right, you can't name him all and add up all those things and come up with God He is you know, if we say he is love he's entirely love he's entirely

Just he's entirely all these things. He is his Attributes and his attributes are him he in his whole his essence

Simplicity means that God's essence just or his essence

Boy, that that's a mouthful Simplicity means that God's essence just is his attributes.

Okay I'd leave out just there because just one of his attributes, but His essence is his attributes and his attributes his essence

Scripture for instance does not merely say God possesses love But that he is love

God does not merely perform good acts But he is good. In other words

God's attributes are not one thing and his essence another But all that is in God is

God all that is in God is God To say that the triune

God is simple is to say that all that is true of the divine essence eternity

Immutability, etc is true of each and every person of the Godhead. The Son is no exception to that rule

He too is Simply God so everything that's true of the

Father is true of the Son except that the Son does not eternally generate anyone

As Stephen Holm says Quote equally identical with all the divine properties

In other words, there's no divine property of the Father that the Son does not possess as well number 16

True or false Simplicity helps us differentiate between divine generation and human generation

Simplicity helps us differentiate between divine generation and human generation that's true and divine generation and human generation, you know, we think

And I don't want to skip ahead but when we think of like father like son, right?

There's truth to that There's a lot of truth to that and in a human sense, it means one thing but Divine sense it means something else

Barrett says simplicity helps us to Differentiate for example between human generation and divine generation.

So there you go. Listen to Athanasius as Then men create not as God creates as their being is not as God's being

So men's generation is in one way and the son is from the father in another

In other words, the analogy helps us to understand the relationship. It doesn't quite

Come about exactly. I mean if I I have a son my son could be said to be like me in all the bad ways

But when we say, you know, Jesus is the image of the father. What does that mean?

Yes, there's nothing derivative about it. He is in his essence God, okay follow up on 15

All right, would

I say would you say that again relationship between the father and son, okay

Are those separate are the relationships separate from the attributes of God? Okay, Charlie, well,

I think that's true I think that we'll never fully grasp the totality that is

God because that's just beyond our grasp attitude You Know I like making up words to But getting back to the question is

The does the relationship between the three of them is that independent of the attributes the attributes to find the essence and the essence to find it well,

I Don't know this is so complicated for me

I Don't know submit that submit that in writing, okay number 17,

I mean, I'm just gonna have to think about it because it's like kind of I mean

I When you said it at first I thought I knew it and then I the more I think about it the more I'm like Yeah, give it to me in writing.

So I Know it.

I just don't know it Number 17 true or false to be begotten of the father is to have the same essence as the father

Obviously true and I mean we've been talking about that So this is a little bit repetitive said

Athanasius Since he is not a creature Which is so important for us to remember because we live in a world where Jesus is a creature

That's how people think of him since he is not a creature he alone is from the father

We must say That the son is from the essence of the father

And to say that he is from the essence of the father is to say that he is Truly God.

He's truly divine Yes, he's truly man, but he is truly divine and we have to keep that in focus number 18

True or false for there to be three persons in the Godhead. There must be three wills

Why is that false? I mean if you're a person you have a will

Well, if they all had three wills it all be on their own little trajectory their own little path Well, they could just come to agreement though Compromise Okay, if they're indivisible in in what now

Their essence then they're indivisible and will I mean,

I think that's really close to what Barrett says. He says the persons were Talking about the Father Son and Spirit the persons were consubstantial same essence same substance

Consubstantial just means same substance the persons were consubstantial with one another because they were one in Will and power

Will and power are not separate from the essence as if they can be divided up in different degrees among the persons for example

No one For example he says and then no will and power are to be identified with the one essence we mortals tend to distinguish between essence will and power for the sake of comprehension and Clarity, but we must remember that they are not parts of God Indeed they are one and the same

God is one and the three persons having one essence Will and power they have one will so and here's why

I think it's important because We can we can go back, you know go into our

DeLorean go back to the The pre time pre temporal counsel

Where the Father Son and Spirit? You know Lay out this plan of salvation for mankind, and if we're not careful, then what do we wind up with?

Kind of like a United Nations right the the three Yeah, the three of them get together, and you know debate and have a vote, and it's two to one

You know or so and no No, there's nothing like that. They're always of the same will the same desire the same thoughts.

There's no differentiation the problem we have of course is we identify personhood as Will Right so we think of ourselves well if there are three persons in the

Trinity each of them must have different Desires a different plan different thoughts different no

Well, then how are they three different persons? Because they are because the

Bible says they are They do things they make decisions And the thing is they don't make decisions that are in conflict or in any way

Contrary to the other persons in fact they're always in full agreement with one okay

There must be three wills number 19 any question about that okay moving on number 19 true or false

Each of the persons in the Trinity have different areas of operation That really feels true doesn't it?

It is false. It's a shaka

Barrett if the persons of the Trinity are one in essence will and power Simply Trinity, then it also follows that they work listen in separably in creation and salvation

Indivisible in essence individual indivisible in operation the church fathers like to say

Singular in nature and will the persons form a singular action Separate individual centers of consciousness and will may be true of created persons us

But cannot be true of divine persons otherwise the Godhead would be divided

So what does that mean I mean when we think about for example, and and this is the easiest example

Maybe to give in all of Scripture Or at least it's easier for me

Ephesians 1 3 to 14 when we read through that and I mean we could read through it now

We read through it we tend to preach it this way, and I'll preach it before I before I read it

You know the father chooses the son dies for secures the salvation of the elect and then the

Holy Spirit seals them and Everybody would say amen to that you know that's a that's a good and right sermon.

Here's here's the issue though Let me read it blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us in Christ With every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places

Even as he chose us in him right this the father choosing us in Christ Before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love

He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ again talking about the father choosing us

He's going to adopt us through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will okay now there was there a different will no

Moving on to the praise of his glorious grace with which he has blessed us in the beloved in him in Christ We have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace

Which he lavished upon us in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will according to his purpose

Which he set forth in Christ as a plan of the fullness of time to unite all things in him Things in heaven and things on earth in him in Christ.

We have obtained an inheritance having been predestined According to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will so that we

Who were the first to hope in Christ? Might be to the praise of his glory In him you also when you heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation and believed in him were sealed by the promised

Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory

Now let's just focus on that last one for a moment if I say who is it that guarantees our salvation

Which are the persons of the Trinity? What's that?

Holy Spirit, okay But if I say to you That no one can take us out of the father's hand.

What does that mean it refers to his decree?

Okay, I think

Lisa's correct Let's look at John 6 for a moment.

I'm looking at Jesus walking on water, which has nothing to do with what I want to talk about Okay 44 no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day

Does that sound like? Jesus is guaranteeing our salvation. I think it sounds like that, but we just said in Ephesians 1 that The Spirit guarantees our salvation which one is it is that a contradiction?

Why isn't it a contradiction because they're one of the same and because in terms of operations

They both operate there there is nothing that and you know, what why does it seem like sometimes that The father said to be doing something and then later on we'll see the son is said to be doing something

Here, let's look at John 10 for a moment. I Mean, this is this is a clear In in one context we have the father and the son doing the same thing

Verse 27 my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and They will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand

Well, they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

What does it sounds like he's Guaranteeing their security Verse 29 my father who has given them to me his eternal decree is

Greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand Well can't take them out of the son's hand can't take them out of the father's hand.

It kind of sounds like what? Verse 30

I and the father are one Not one in purpose alone, right a an

Aryan a Mormon could agree with that Meaning they even if Jesus was a created being he could have the same eternal purpose but one in action so you know, we often see things divided up as if they're separate operations as if the father does something and The son doesn't well true or false the father chose us in eternity past.

Is that true or false? true Did Jesus choose us in eternity past It's true.

I mean we can look at passages and you could argue with me about this, but it says Jesus says you did not choose me, but I Chose you what did that mean?

You know just in the off -handed chance or that one moment here where he went and prayed and then he came down and he

He said these are the guys I want You know, this is my team. I Think there's an eternal reference as well, right?

So let's read which Barrett says if the persons of the

Trinity are one in essence will empower simply Trinity follows in separately blah blah. Okay Indivisible in essence indivisible in operation the church fathers like to say singular in nature and will the persons perform a singular action

Separate individual centers of consciousness and will may be true of created persons But cannot be true of the divine persons

Otherwise the Godhead would be divided then when Lewis Ayres a world -renowned expert on the

Trinity lists the three essential conditions for one to be pro nicene in other words to subscribe to the

Nicene Creed a belief in inseparable operations is one of them

Inseparable operations, okay, just one second meaning that what the father does the son does

What the son does the spirit does what the spirit does the father does etc. Etc.

Etc. Etc. Okay, Janet I don't know if I can't

Romans 15th. Well, I mean first of all, you'd have to accept the idea that the term

God always means That well or the father, right

I Mean I remember when I was going through the John 13 through 17 and you know when he

When Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will take up residence in them. He also says what he says something else there

He says that he would abide with them and that the father would also abide in other words

Call quite clearly saying that the triune God would take up residence within each and every person of the

Trinity or every Saved person and we we sometimes just assume that it's the

Holy Spirit alone But that's not correct. And there are other passages we could Point to yet.

So let me let me just read the verse and then I'll get to you May the God of hope so we would have to assume

Then that this would be a separate well, I you know, I'm looking at the non authorized version here

Reformation study Bible and it says this what was described as the effect of scripture in verse 4 is having hope and promised in the citation is from 11 10 verse

Verse 12 is now attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit Paul here is following a pattern evident throughout the

New Testament God's saving acts are attributed in God's Word as well as to the work of the Holy Spirit Etc.

I mean, I think it's really difficult. You can find multiple places where Different acts of God are attributed different persons

But Okay, yeah,

I think it has to do with that exactly I Don't have time to to sort all this out either but in John 14 is where The Holy Spirit is promised and he takes up residence in us

Even the spirit of truth but but even if you if you Study that out.

I think you'll see that it's not just the Holy Spirit who takes up residence in us But I think the important part is to understand if we just take

Like Anderson if we just take a step back and we say okay same power

Same will meaning what if God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have the same will then that means they're all working together

They have the same power and what the scripture does is it highlights?

Particular emphases, you know with regard to father son and spirit Now there are some there is one big difference between The the

Trinity we cannot say for example that the father died for sinners

Or that the Holy Spirit died for sinners. Well, why not? Because only the man

Christ Jesus died, right? Only in his human nature could he die?

Yeah. Okay.

I have to confess somewhere here I started hearing Paul McCartney the long and winding road I Lost the question there somewhere are there three persons of the

Godhead because they relate to creation differently Okay Yes, that's true okay, so so let's take this one piece at a time here and I see we're gonna close on this but Okay, no, no sinful thing

Can enter into God's throne room, right? I think we're agreed on that Okay, okay, but that's not that but that's not a

Sinful creature entering into the throne room. That's God entering into a sinful creature, right?

Okay Yes That part's true

That part's true. I still I still don't I mean, I don't think that's analogous though to us

Entering into the you know, in other words what happens when and you know this when the

Holy Spirit enters into us he begins a refining process that ultimately is not complete until we die and Go to glory.

I I don't I don't think so Yeah, I think that's yeah,

I think that's too divided John says it feels a little too divided I just think it feels too divided Okay, how can they well because Jesus says that it's a direct implication and I don't

What's not the Holy Spirit alone? Right, right because that's how we typically we describe it because that's how the scripture most most often

Defines it that way, right? I Mean like the vast majority of the time the the question would be you know, who's at work in Sanctifying me.

Is that the Holy Spirit alone? I mean, is it the

Holy Spirit alone? And I think the answer is No, if we you know, if we if somebody wants to you know refute that we can do a study on that Well in a few weeks

But the idea here's here's the question. Does the Holy Spirit alone sanctify believers and I think the answer to that is no

It's just that the emphasis is put on you know If we say who created the earth

Well, the emphasis is on whom is it on the father

I Mean, I think the I think in Genesis we might say the the emphasis appears to be on the father in John The emphasis is what's that?

you know and so the emphasis would be on Jesus, but I think we could also make the case that Certainly the

Father and the Son are or the Father and the Spirit are also involved. I I think in everything, you know even if even if you could find an action in scripture where only one person of the

Trinity is Said to be engaged. The ultimate question is was that just his purview alone, you know, he's got this isolated

Bit of action that only he does and the answer would be no

They've got they're all involved. There are inseparable operations because the same essence is

Involved in whatever that power is exercised in in doing Okay Any any million dollar questions that I can't answer in less than 20 minutes before we close and the you know

Andrew's shaking his head because he knows that if we if we do anymore We're gonna get you know in big trouble here.

So let's close in prayer and as Always, let me before I pray if you have some complicated question based on something

We just talked about send me an email. We'll address them all in three weeks all of them every single one

Alright Let's pray Father what a delight it is to to think to meditate to just be

Sometimes bewildered Sometimes overwhelmed by the knowledge of what a transcendent

God you are yet you stick closer to believers than our brother you

Have loved us with an everlasting love You have determined to redeem us in spite of Who we are?

You you change us you save us You sanctify us and one day you will glorify us and That is in fact a