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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Cruise Announcement and Special Rates

And welcome to the dividing line on this Thursday evening it is still five o 'clock. Whatever time it is where you are. We did have I guess I can turn that timer off now, huh? Timers off. There we go.

We did have one person about 403 or so. And we're like, ah, there he is and that man the the the prize of the day. We're not remembering that. We here in Arizona don't do that kind of thing. Yeah had a phone.

I've wondered if that phone call wasn't the same thing I'll tell you. It's amazing and it's also 87 degrees outside. It hit 92 here today in Phoenix. And the record today. I looked it up on the record yesterday.

I think was like 105 or something like that. I mean, that's there's 1989. I remember that it was like Oh, it's gonna be a horrible summer if in if in April, it's just hot. I remember riding a bike race first weekend of April once it hit 104 that day and it was not a whole lot of fun.

But anyways, we're now Unfortunately, our time is the same as California now, and I don't like that just I Sorry if you're in California, I know there are great Good godly Christians in California, but that entire state is just weird okay, you've got you've got just so many weird people there that I Vote we put up a big old Wall right along the Colorado River and just say you y 'all stay over there just do that.

Anyways before we get started today. Well, I guess we have gotten started haven't we but you know what? I mean before we have serious theological dialogue and inquiry at eight seven seven seven five three three three.

Four one eight seven seven that is a toll-free number in case you do not recognize it eight seven seven seven five three three three four one before we do our deep theological discussion we have something else very important to discuss and.

That is why on the special bat line that we have had installed here in the Mega Alpha and Omega ministries offices complex with our massive staff and And places for pet dogs and things like that. We have on the line with us all the way from sunny humid, Florida where where.

Many years ago. I will I will always remember is one of my fondest memories of Christian ministry and service I just killed a bug Christian ministry and service.

I.

Met this man in a in a car. That I will not describe to you But all I can tell you is as we drove to places to minister together. I had to stick my.

Window.

And let the breeze blow through my shirt So that so that I could not look like I swam there. It was just such a Binding experience it was. So anyways now that I've Completely made everyone wonder what in the world is he talking about?

We have on the phone from from the great state of Florida Michael Fallon. Hi Mike. I'm doing pretty good. I can barely hear you for some reason. I'm not sure if everybody else can hear you well or not.

We'll let rich take care of that.

But.

Sorry about that introduction, but it's.

Oh.

Really really. Wow. Well The the high the high pressure that we have will head your direction eventually and and it'll be back to the same old same old so. Anyways, we see. I did it again. I'm trying anyway.

See someone. I don't know who it is is very upset with me about saying anyways because it's not anyways. It's anyway. And so I'm just supposed to do something about that. But you'll need to. Yeah, you sound pretty muffled so you're gonna have to speak up a good bit.

We're having we must have a bad connection from you or something. I'm not sure. Better. That's much better. Yes, all right.

You weren't on a speakerphone were you know. I was on a headset actually well the head. But I'm all over the computer and so forth trying to get things done for you.

Yeah, well you know the headset made you sound like you're on Mars however, so we're not taking a cruise to Mars. We're taking a cruise to the Eastern Caribbean. Right. That's right. And the first weekend in December.

On.

Well you tell us we have some big news or do we have big news tonight?

Yeah, absolutely to get it done. I tell you this folks There's a lot of people out there that don't Trust our sovereign God and Creator and a lot of those people usually live in fear just plans with their ministries and everything else depending.

I know that our days are numbered by him and not by anything else. I give up the ability for rates. Yes, and as you have if you not new Your rates will be brought down to this level. Just automatically you've been doing care of that.

Okay, let let let me tell you what's going on folks if you take a look at our website right now and you click on to the 2003 apologetics group that the cat M through G Which is the large inside a balcony low price?

We got this price for a group rate Which is usually above $1 ,000 if you we got for a low 899 a person because of the fear-mongering that's going on out there from all the Democrats that are afraid to.

Not know. Wait a minute. Let me let me back this up here the the rate We had before which was a group rate. It was a great rate was 899. Yes, sir, and you're telling me it's now 306.

360 plus your port taxes. Haven't. And if you know anything about hauling America line and especially about the Zonda which is a new ship. And I'm not saying this just to try to juice you up to try to get you to call me and to be sure that you.

Take an outside cabin, which you see on the website. A cat FF through C starts at $1 ,106. 91 cent. Oh, yeah. Cabin right next to the boy. Hey, I think now that you said that I think it needs to be said.

I've never had a window. You've never had a window. I've never had a window.

So we have we have had other have sweet that they're that's true. That's because of the value of their ministry $80 and 44 cents. That's incredible.

Know it now you figure that out. You even add the port taxes in. We're talking about 65 bucks a day. Yeah with all your meals included. You could you could not you could not eat the type of food That you would have on this on this boat for $65 a day anywhere.

And once again, you don't eat that kind of food on the boat anyway.

But you could tell everybody about the fact I go grab the cheeseburgers on the Lido deck. Come on I go to dinner, you know that I do eat, you know, some of the fancy stuff, but oh.

Man, yeah, but anyway, I suppose these rates there's. I have never as a travel agent and For this is this will be our we've never ever seen rates like this. No when we were on a a Carnival ship not all that luxurious or anything.

We had rates that were $300 above this. Yep. This is usually what your deposit is. Just to get things started and this is the final payment. This is the total payment. Incredible. So opportunity if it's not going to stretch you too much on your budget.

Do take this opportunity to book one of these cabins. You're not you're not going to get this opportunity too often as we see this. Prices are going to go up right and in the tooth and nail I said, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make it on the show, but we got the rate.

Okay, repeat that number again. I want to put it in our chat channel. 7 2 7 4 5 2 6 4 5 3. Yes 4 5 2. Mike.

Okay, all right and after three weeks of this show, it's been archived, please erase that.

The Democratic National Committee will be calling.

But also fucking up a debate right. We're going to have a conference we're going to have a debate and so forth. So if you do book into this you get a chance to see dr. White debate live. We might. You don't want to miss it.

Dr. White that will be ministering the entire time. You want anything you want. To answer for you on the bus ride over.

No on the ship my students take over at that point Colin Smith will be handling all questions. Well, I'm I'm sending myself. Yes. Okay, man, well, thank you very much for letting us know about that. Obviously there are other Kinds of cabins people can ask you about it.

Someone just asked in the channel. What about children? They can give you a call and and you can walk them through that stuff so they can find out.

What it would be right. Absolutely have them call me immediately and If you're listening in chat channel, please call that number and we will chat right now. Okay. All righty. Thank you very much, sir.

I appreciate it. All right. God bless. Bye. Bye. All right. Well, I really do appreciate Mike taking the time. He's been working hard on this. We were. I was a little concerned. We had gotten a good rate and folks that the rates that we have on the website right now are really good rates.

They're for the ship were going on. They're the best rates we've ever had but because of the national situation the war situation the SARS stuff. People even though there's nothing relating to that. I mean what we afraid of an Iraqi submarine or something.

You know, hey, it's Sodom on a sub there you go, you know, I mean there's just but people aren't traveling and So the prices have just fallen through the floor and I was concerned and I hadn't really thought about it but I was concerned man, someone could look at this and See what we're charging and figuring we're ripping you off or something.

Well, we actually had to fight and fight and fight and fight. To get the rate that we got. But that's what we've gotten. I can see someone who's going on the cruise right now and channel celebrating even as we speak.

It's a conspiracy from the John Birch Society. It's not the Build-A-Burgers, it's not any. It's the John Birchers that have done this.

Well, maybe they'll be going on the cruise too. I don't know but anyways It's it's a tremendous opportunity and we always have an enjoyable time. We have Bible studies on the cruise and and get a chance to know folks and I'm gonna do everything in my power on this my fourth cruise to not be writing a.

Book.

I have been writing I've always had just Massive projects sitting on my head every time I've had to bring my computer along. I've had to set it up. I've had to do work while everybody else is getting off the boat and going and doing stuff.

I'm sitting in the on the Lido deck with my laptop writing. I'm gonna do everything I can and I've said this before but I'm gonna do everything I can Not to be doing that To avoid doing that. So anyways, please Do not put this off because as as he said we simply cannot Guarantee these these prices.

They could be gone tomorrow. They could start going up tomorrow. We just don't know but right now we have the rates. Seven two seven four five two six four five three seven two seven that's the area code.

Four five two Mike four five two six four five three. Give them a call and Talk to them about it. Let's let's some of you who we simply have not You know jumped on this. Now is the time to do it. It's a great opportunity and It's gonna be a very enjoyable time.

Some of you are going Cruising. I did the same thing. I I confess I Heard about people doing it, and I'm sort of like.

Please.

You know come on. Cruising that's so big about that. But I'll tell you the first cruise we took as Mike said it wasn't on the fanciest ship in comparison. Certainly seemed that way to me though. It wasn't very long.

It was only a four-day three-night thing, but man I'm gonna tell you I almost felt embarrassed.

How.

Well, I was treated. You know treated like royalty. And let me tell you something.

The.

Wives like to go on cruises. My wife told me when I first got the call from Mike years ago. Didn't even know who Mike was I told I. Told her I said well. We've been invited. You know if I'll come and speak that we can go on this cruise.

And her response to me was Well, we're going on that cruise whether I have to speak or not.

So.

We we went and just had a wonderful time. And so I hope you will. If you've been on the fence if this doesn't knock you over. Then you might as well just get off the other side and and mosey on on someplace else.

I guess.

So.

Anyhow. That's it's gonna be a very enjoyable time. Good good Christian fellowship. So give Mike a call at that phone number. I'll repeat it one more time, and then we will move on from there. 7 2 7 4 5 2 6 4 5 3 is the phone number.

And you can talk with Mike if it's busy. Obviously. Maybe there are other people calling. I mean that's that's just. Just incredible. Trying to get folks on these ships get them filled up in a difficult time for the travel industry.

Well 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is. Is just at a Catholic and channel I'm offering ten indulgences for one cruise ticket. Uh-huh uh-huh. Well we should probably discuss indulgences in light of that statement, but.

Anyways 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number to join with the dividing line today. Possibly there were some issues that were brought up before and.

And.

Either that or issues that have come up since the last program. I Hear mr.. Pierce talking with someone not sure if someone has called. I can't tell anymore because we have this new fancy-dancy phone system.

Which didn't help us a whole lot. There with Mike is Mike I? Think the alligator. I think the alligator in Mike's Lake has been gnawing on his phone.

Because.

Even on the regular phone we couldn't get a real good good connection on that one, but Anyways with this fancy-dancy phone system. I can't look over at my own office phone like I used to. I'm leaning back I don't know if you can tell and I'm looking at the phone system, and I can't see the lights anymore.

So I don't know when someone has called in and when someone hasn't called in or anything else and of course I sit here staring at the little box that I have where we're. Rich is supposed to talk to me and and If he was listening to me he'd go no we don't have anyone or ah see there you go.

I knew it was coming, but you see rich will admit I type about 14 times faster than he does so that's that's why we're just we're just waiting just sort of waiting you know. Yeah, let's get Balthazar to go.

Because then if we could get Balthazar to go on the cruise the average IQ of the entire boat would go up by twenty two point seven three points. And If if if there was any and we could have like if Balthazar went.

We could we could like meet out on the front of the ship. You know and we could look up in the up in the skies and He could tell us about everything that's up there because Balthazar is a is an astronomer.

Who who is famous for discovering? Gamma ray bursts and.

So.

Someone explained to old Tom in the room here. That's that he's Barking up the wrong tree there you go. Bye Tom. See you. See you later. Hasta la vista. Anyways, so we need to get Balthazar to go because Balthazar is cool And like I said he he's sort of like if when Balthazar and I are together It's sort of like pinky in the brain.

He's the brain Narf, okay. Let's go ahead and line up our our callers here. Everyone's calling in. These are sympathy calls they're tired of my talking and They want to get onto something worthwhile. So let's let's go now we're gonna start applying rules here in the future because The next time it's gonna have to be Steve in and then we're gonna have to try STEP HEN Because eventually people gonna figure out there's this one guy in, New Jersey So we need to use different names I think as we as we go along maybe a middle name something like that.

That'll help and Possibly a little bit of an accent change something like that. Maybe a British accent or something would help but let's go ahead and talk with Steve in New Jersey. Hello, Steve I'm doing all right.

I could use my children's name and because we've adopted them and they're from China and they do have Chinese name. Oh, well, I'm really confused.

All.

Righty, what's your question today a.

Couple of things. First of all, I've been listening to your harmony of the Gospels. Ah, and I'm sorry. I. And I've I.

Have the logos on the computer. Okay. No, I'm sorry Steve. I need to stop you for a second. Sure. When I start My Greek classes The first thing I explained to my students when they come in is the one thing That will cause them to fail first your Greek is if they pronounce Lagos as Logos, okay.

Lagos. So I just you know, it's sort of like the Psalms thing, you know. It's it's Lagos that now some people I know I've heard RC Sproul say logos, but The worst thing is when you hear someone say Logos.

That is the worst that that's worse. So we just need to stop there and you know, just sort of just correct that so you have the Lagos actually. Probably now the Leibronic system, right?

I bought it a few years ago. It was the scholar Version. Right now, you know, they've upgraded that I'm sure they have. I haven't. I haven't kept up with it.

Well, it would be a free upgrade for you. Leibronics is the new Library system and it would I think it'd be a free upgrade for you and it works a lot nicer.

Well, that's good. I'll have to. I will get on their website and take a look into that. Yeah.

And.

Is there a harmony of the scriptures that you would recommend and one that works with Lagos?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Good question. I have a really large Lagos library on my laptop, but since the Alland Harmony Appears in Bible works. I have not even looked in In my library in Lagos for something like it.

I would I would actually be surprised if there is not. Really. My expectation would be see that. The nice thing with Leibronics if you do the upgrade because it's free is you can then shop.

Online.

With them looking you can look at all their titles right from your computer. Sure, and you can then you can buy it just directly that way and download it and they'll give you the key and boom. It's there and it's fairly, you know, I mean, it's not cheap in the sense of you know, ridiculously cheap but it's it's good good pricing on most of stuff and.

So you probably could find a couple of the the harmonies that have been published. There's you know, four or five of them I would imagine and I I don't know maybe someone in the channel does know and if anybody does I'll let you know.

Whether anyone has seen that in their Leibronics setup. I can't recollect it off top my head, but that does not mean Anything. Because I haven't done a lot with the Greek and Lagos because I have Bible works.

So I just haven't really dug into it, but I would imagine it's probably available.

And you're you're listening to your lessons on that. You take the position that they were written completely independent of each other and not based on one of the other. Correct, right. If they wouldn't have known it or they might not have referred to it, but it's not based on it as normally presented.

Yeah, I don't I don't believe that Matthew and Luke were sitting there with a copy of mark and in a cue source Something along those lines. I I do see them as as independent productions and the the parallels come from the The fact that the the source that they're using is is consistent with itself.

I I realize it's extremely popular to assume mark and priority and some level of Interdependence, however as far as I know everyone who has Promoted that initially those who first suggested those things also had a very late date for the writing of almost all the Gospels anyways, and It seems a little bit strange to me that conservatives as I would view myself in my view of Scripture and in my view of Inerrancy and inspiration Will buy into the end result of a process of thinking they'd never expect they'd never accept themselves.

In other words we wouldn't you know you go back into the 1800s and you examine the origin and source of These concepts part and parcel of it was the idea That these Gospels were late first century early second Century productions and that then allowed for Interdependence because you weren't talking about something that mark had actually written those are just traditional names.

That was part and parcel of the argument as well. And so you could have all this time. Well, the problem is that doesn't that really doesn't fit in with a conservative view of the dating of those Gospels.

And so it's strange at the conclusion Would then be borrowed I mean Does mark write this and then immediately it's copied and he sends it off to Matthew and Luke wherever they might be. So they can use it or something.

I mean, it just it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So You know, I obviously as we're teaching through it. I will attempt to Mention those places where people focus in upon that. But no, that's not my starting presupposition.

All righty, oh. You seem to have disappeared on me here seems out here. Okay? Well, I think we're having some problems on the other side of the wall here actually, so go ahead. Okay, um.

Nothing to do with what I just the harmony of the Gospels, but can you will you you do an English accent every once in a while?

Oh, I tried to you once. Why do you do the cockney English? Oh, yeah I watch. Actually, I also do. Collins.

Collins accents Hopkins Hopkins a cockney. Well, you remember the lady of the woman in my fair lady? Yeah, she spoke. Yeah, I do. Okay, because when you can do a good cockney, I'll give you a very good cockney.

English.

Ecclesiastical joke. Oh, well. All right. What will happen is when we get on the boat with Colin I'll ask Colin to help me here. He can train me and and that way then maybe I can I can find out how to do that.

And then we'll have a joke together. They drop their H's.

Okay.

The whole channel just exploded.

Now I say I've got a I've got one that a Joke that I heard, you know. You've you've spoken about how in the past how people tend to believe what they want to believe in spite of the evidence. Yes, I do.

Yeah. Well, there was a story that we heard here that the if I can indulge a moment.

Then I'll end the call. Yeah, then we're good. We've taken our break after this.

Okay that the Pope wanted to stop the war so he made a unannounced trip to To see the president. They met on a yacht whereupon at the end when they invited the press on after the meeting the Pope's hat blew off into the Potomac.

The Bush issues the Secret Service climbs down the side of the boat walks across the water picks up the hat looks back across the water up onto the Boat returns the hat. Since the press was there was full coverage with an accurate account and pictures of this under the headline the president can't swim.

Yeah.

There's more truth to that than we might know. That's right. Thanks a lot Steve. You take care. All right. God, bye. Bye. All right, eight seven seven boy. I've got a bunch of crackling and stuff going on.

I'm not sure what's going on. Eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty. One's phone number. We're gonna take our break. Talk to Tim and the rest of you who call in today on the dividing line right after we take our break and There it is.

I can hear now. We'll be right back.

The Meaning of the Atonement and Revelation 13:8

Strong and true is the Mormon my brother.

Bethany House Publishers presents James White's book is the Mormon my brother. In television campaigns parachurch events and clergy fellowships all across the United States Mormons are presenting themselves as mainstream Christians.

Is it unloving or backward to say they aren't real Christians. In Contrast the Christian monotheism the belief in one God Mormonism teaches that God was once a man who lived on another planet and was exalted to the status of God and That Mormon men can also become gods upon death and resurrection.

In his book is the Mormon My brother James White demonstrates how this fact alone means Mormons and Christians are Irreconcilably at odds. At faith's most basic level is the Mormon My brother is now available from Alpha and Omega ministries book ministry.

You can order is the Mormon my brother from our website at www .aomin .org.

Answering those who claim that only the King James Version is the Word of God James White in his book the King James only controversy examines allegations that modern translators conspired to corrupt scripture and lead believers away from true Christian faith.

In a readable and responsible style author James White traces the development of Bible translations old and new and Investigates the differences between new versions and the authorized version of 1611.

You can order your copy of James White's book the King James only controversy by going to our website at www .aomin .org.

This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church.

The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day. The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m.

On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix. You can call for further information at 602 -26-grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org.

Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

More than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together. They are standing shoulder-to-shoulder against social evils they are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and Many evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing.

This newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age-old disagreements that have divided Protestants and Catholics. Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language?

James White's book The Roman Catholic Controversy is an absorbing look at current views of tradition in Scripture the papacy the mass purgatorian indulgences and Marian doctrine. James White points out the crucial differences that remain regarding the Christian life and the heart of the gospel itself.

They cannot be ignored. Order your copy of The Roman Catholic Controversy by going to our website at a omen org.

It's a journey.

Thank you brother Steve you do such a wonderful job each week and it's amazing how he hits the exact same notes every week no difference whatsoever, it's a.

It's a.

Cool thing anyways. 877 -753 3341 is a phone number. Someone's telling me in. Someone's asking us to update the calendar page. We haven't updated the calendar page in years. It is a tradition that the calendar page is actually a history page.

This is what we were doing two years ago. It appears out of date now, there's an understatement. Yes, it is definitely Out of date. Let's go ahead and talk with Tim in. I'm assuming this means South South Carolina.

The Extent and Timing of the Atonement

On the subject of the Atonement. Tim you there. Yes, sir. How are you, sir? Yes, sir. I can. I'm good. I'm the guy who called me that you called in now early. Yeah. Don't you know that you all play with your clocks and we do not.

I love your accent. You sound like my friend Sky man. Sky man is is lives in Georgia. He lives in Georgia, he lives in Georgia and he's. He's he's a wonderful man. He may be listening right now. And if you ever get down to Forsyth, you need to visit with Sky man because he's a wonderful Christian brother and he's a great preacher too.

So you need to go visit him. Well, that's great. But I love the way y 'all talk.

Maybe about two years ago after I finished reading the book Potter's freedom I didn't realize that you had a ministry as you did and I just happened to get a hold of your number At home and I called you one night you were cut and I don't know if you remember that.

Well.

No, I don't. Like are you fixing to beat me up or something? Well, I don't. I don't get a whole lot of phone calls.

At home.

I.

Got one about two weeks ago. So yeah, you call me at home. Especially in the middle of a workout or something in general. I'll go. Yeah, okay. And the purpose you're calling me at home is because that you know, I don't like the the.

You know the people who call you try to sell you things, right? I don't handle them real well. So those conversations normally don't start off. Well.

I.

That was that that book. It's been a really great use of God in my life. Well, hey, you know what I'm gonna give you a real Privilege here since you you brought it up. Tim in South Carolina is the person who has brought up the issue that will allow me to announce to the entire listening world that this morning Around 10 a .m. I sent the very last.

File of.

The debate book between myself and Dave hunt To Multnomah it is done. It is finished it is completed and Everything that I have to write for it was turned in this morning. I had forgotten to mention that because everyone's always calling the program.

When's that book gonna come out? I don't know when the books gonna come out but it is done and it was Tim from South Carolina that Reminded me to make that announced Mount announcement to the entire world.

So Tim congratulations. You you you have caused me to remember that joyous event of finishing the last section of that debate. I Don't know that it's going to be. We lost him. Wait, we lost him. Oh.

No.

Now, you know what's gonna happen. I'm gonna have to talk like this until he calls back and People in the channel are gonna really become Very unhappy because I'm talking like this and we got him back now.

Tim you there? No, Tim's not there. I Heard a phone ringing and I'm there's Tim. You can't you can't. You got bummed. It's it's those phone lines coming out of South Carolina. Did you hear what I said about the boy, yeah, okay great.

Well, that's looking. I'm looking forward much more to. Well, it's funny in my closing statement. In my closing statement, I Specifically made mention of that so I'm hoping that that's going to cause there to be an interaction at least over the course of.

What I would like to do personally would be a Thursday night Friday night Saturday morning Saturday evening debate. That's what I'd like to see happen, but that's not why you called. So go ahead, sir.

Well, the question I have is I'm not very familiar. But I figured maybe you would be a friend of mine made mention of particular view of the atonement in which I'm wanting to say that she said either Isaac Watts or John Newton hailed.