May 5, 2022 Show with Chris Dorr on “No Compromise Gun Rights”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Cumberland County, and Lake City, Florida.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fifth day of May, 2022.

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And today we have the honor and privilege of interviewing for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Chris Dorr, president of the

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American Firearms Association. And today we are going to be addressing the theme, No Compromise Gun Rights, a

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Christian's Opposition to Partial Liberty Regarding Self -Defense and Defending Loved Ones and Neighbors.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the very first time, Chris Dorr. Well, thank you very much,

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Chris. I like that song, number one. Number two, you have the best name in the world.

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It means Christbearer, as I'm sure you know. Oh, yeah. We have a little bit more scrutiny on our lives as a result of that.

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So my pleasure to be here. Thank you. It's actually a very hard name to live up to. And tragically,

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I fail miserably at it at some point every day. Every day, absolutely.

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Well, tell our listeners something about the American Firearms Association, where you serve as president.

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Well, so the American Firearms Association is a little bit different than the other national gun rights organizations that you can think of.

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Most gun rights organizations are essentially started from the top down. It's kind of like politics in America today.

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Everybody thinks, oh, if we're going to fix this country, it's going to have to happen with the presidential election.

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That's where we're going to save everything. And it's kind of been the same case with the

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National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America, some of these other national gun rights organizations.

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The American Firearms Association was started as the result of a bunch of state -level gun rights organizations that I'm also a part of that are very effective at the state level because of the tactics and the length to which they're willing to go to fight for gun rights.

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And we looked around at the federal level and said, you know what, we need something of the same mindset at the national level.

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And so a bunch of state -level gun rights organization leaders got together, kind of as a federation, from the ground up and said, no, let's start the

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American Firearms Association. And that's how it was started, not from the top down, but from the bottom up.

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And so this organization takes a no -holds -barred, aggressive stance on not only the defense of our gun rights and fighting back against gun control, but then mobilizing people to action through various tools and emails and platforms and stuff like that.

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So it's a grassroots mobilization organization that goes around mobilizing people in key states to legislative action or whatever is before Congress.

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And you have affiliates, affiliated organizations all over the

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United States. You have the Firearms Coalition in North Carolina. You have

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Ohio gun owners, Pennsylvania Firearms Association, Wisconsin Firearms Coalition, Wyoming gun owners, and the

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Idaho Second Amendment Alliance, Washington Gun Rights, and New Hampshire Firearms Coalition.

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By the way, is the Washington Gun Rights D .C. or the state of Washington? That would be

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Washington state. D .C. is occupied territory, so we don't really mess around with the swamp.

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Some things are beyond saving, and that's Washington D .C. for you. But I think

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Washington Gun Rights is started. I think Iowa gun owners would be on your list there,

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Missouri Firearms Coalition, Minnesota Gun Rights. Those are some of the original three that we got started in.

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So, yeah, states all across America. Well, if anybody wants to find out more about the

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American Firearms Association and their affiliates, go to AmericanFirearmsAssociation .org,

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AmericanFirearms, with an S at the end, Association .org, and we will be repeating that,

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God willing, later on in the program. As I informed you before the show, I wanted to get out of the way right up front the fact that if anyone

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Googles your name, not even Googling the American Firearms Association, but Googling your name, there are a lot of scandalous attacks on you and your brothers on the

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Internet. Obviously, it's a no -brainer that the Internet being really dominated by leftists and Second Amendment haters and Marxists and so on.

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It's not a shock that that would be the case. I've learned a long time ago, not to believe everything

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I read on the Internet, but some of the accusations that may hit closer to home, that may get our listeners on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio more likely to become apprehensive or skeptical or extremely concerned are those that claim that you're making enemies with gun rights activists and that you're actually dividing, you're separating those who are involved in the fight to preserve the

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Second Amendment and also that you and your brothers are running a scam of some kind, or scams, plural.

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So why don't you respond to this kind of accusation or accusations, plural, that are seemingly rampant on the

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Internet? Sure. Yeah, I'd be happy to. First and foremost, I would say we absolutely are trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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In grassroots mobilization politics, it goes well beyond a spectator sport.

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If you're not actively participating in it, you're just going to get steamrolled. Other people, take pro -life issues, for example.

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A lot of people, when they get involved in the pro -life issue, they get involved because they want to save babies.

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Well, over time, that becomes kind of like a focus on prayer and a desire for these things to change, but very few people get involved at the political level and start pushing legislation or something like that.

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And there's even philosophy, sharp disagreements on philosophy, even among advocates for the unborn.

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You have those that are pro -life and those that are abolitionists. There are pro -life people that are incrementalists who believe we should very slowly be trying to, beginning with lessening the frequency of abortion and so on, and then you have the abolitionists say, no, no steps, no baby steps, no incrementalist rhetoric.

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We've got to just wipe it out. So I know that there's all kinds of things that separate people who are passionate about issues, even in the body of Christ.

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Sure. So when it comes to gun politics, if you think of a bunch of the states that I just listed off that we have organizations in and that I work for, most of them are controlled by Republicans.

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And in some of those cases, they are controlled by Republican supermajorities, like Iowa and Ohio, for example.

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Actually, I'm not sure on Iowa right now. They certainly have Republican majorities. And so in those states, especially states with Republican majorities in the legislature and Republican governors, in those states the problem to passing gun rights legislation is not the

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Democrats. The Democrats can wail and moan and introduce all the gun control bills that they want to, but at the end of the day the buck stops with the

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Republicans. So in a state, especially with this trifecta, if that state doesn't have constitutional carry legislation on the books, if it doesn't have stand your ground law on the books, self -defense reforms on the books, most gun rights organizations would have you believe that, oh, it's the

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Democrats' fault that they keep introducing these gun control bills or what have you.

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When in actuality, when the votes are there, the reason why it's not happening is because Republicans aren't doing the job that they campaigned at election time to do and that they have the votes to do.

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We come along with these grassroots mobilization organizations and instead of me lobbying the legislature and being so winsome as a lobbyist or throwing down checks or things like that, trying to persuade them to do the right thing, what we do is instead we say, well, look, we've got

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X number of members in your district that want you, Senator so -and -so, or you,

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Representative so -and -so, to vote yes on constitutional carry. If you don't, well, we're going to tell them at election time and you'll be forced to pay the price for that.

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That way, legislators are being lobbied directly from people in their districts and those people are saying, hey, you as my state representative or my senator, this is what

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I want you to do. And in these states where for years and years and years they were controlled by Republicans and after years and years and years nothing changed, well, we had to start getting more and more aggressive to get the ball rolling.

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And I think a lot of the attacks on us online are almost exclusively from Republicans who will sit there and scream and moan and wail and gnash their teeth about how mean these people are when all we are doing is directly connecting the legislative season and what they're doing during the legislative season to what they promised to do during the election season.

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So, yeah, we're absolutely guilty of running many organizations.

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If we can find more people to run other organizations, we'll do that. And we absolutely put pressure on Republicans to do their jobs when they have the votes to do it because we know for dadgum sure that the

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Democrats will do exactly that the moment that they have the votes. And we can see that right now with what's going on with Roe v.

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Wade and that whole fiasco. So I hope that kind of answers your question.

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Republicans, when they hold the power, they are to blame, not Democrats. When Democrats are in charge, then the responsibility is theirs.

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But when these people campaign at election time to be pro -gun and to protect the

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Second Amendment and to advance it, well, we expect them to honor their word.

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And when they don't, well, they start to hear from people in their districts. And they don't like that for some reason.

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And when it comes to the attacks, not on your ideology, your philosophy, your approach to gun rights, but the accusations that you and your brothers are involved in scams, that smells of people accusing you of ripping off the public monetarily, financially.

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So if you could respond to that. I would happily address that one straight out.

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We shamelessly fundraise as gun rights organizations.

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We fundraise day in and day out pretty much every single communication that goes out the door also has a request for financial contributions because, number one, we don't have any pro -gun billionaires backing us like the

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Democrats and the gun control groups do. But number two, and probably most important, is if we as organizations don't have the resources necessary to make sure that we can mobilize our members to legislative action or to election season action, what happens is, you know, you can go into a legislature and demand these things, but if you can't deliver the results, if you can't turn the heat up, if you don't have the list, money, and people ready to turn on that political pressure, the word quickly gets out amongst the political class, these people can be ignored.

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I mean, the gun rights organizations, don't worry about them. Ignore them because they're just a bunch of yapping dogs.

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So what the politicians have been desperate to do and the political class that protects them has been trying so very hard to do and failing miserably is to accuse us of running multiple gun rights organizations in all these different states, which have been very successful, by the way, then say, oh, they're running all these because they're just trying to fundraise.

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Of course we're trying to fundraise. They don't want us to fundraise because they know that we use those money to come back and punish them politically at election season or turn up the pressure in their districts during the legislative season to force them to do the things that they don't want to do, which are actually the right things to do.

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So yeah, it's a classic example of pot calling the kettle black.

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The politicians and the political class always have their hands out. They're always trying to solicit funds.

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They want to attack us to try to shut off the resources that gun owners entrust us because they don't like what we do with those resources, which is, as I just explained, put the pressure onto them.

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So do we fundraise? Absolutely. Our only regret is that we can't fundraise more.

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And we have a tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Whenever we have a first -time guest, when that guest is a

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Christian, I predominantly interview fellow Christians, but there are rare occasions when

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I have a non -Christian on because he's written a book or she has written a book or for some other reason that they have information that is,

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I think, very important for the body of Christ to hear on any realm of issues that may not be specifically and uniquely

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Christian. So that happens once in a blue moon. But when I have a Christian on for the first time,

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I ask of that Christian to give a summary of their salvation testimony, and that would include the kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and the kinds of providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them. And I'd love to hear your story.

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I'd be happy to share it. Thankfully, mine is a boring one, which is how

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I prefer my salvation stories to be. I grew up in a Christian home in northwest

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Iowa, about six miles from Minnesota's border, about 30 miles from the

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South Dakota border. Grew up in a Christian home, never knew a time when I didn't have and know my own

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Christian faith and the assurance of my faith. Grew up in a very pro -life political family.

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Grew up every Tuesday morning at my local abortion clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

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The abortionist's name was Buck Williams and his wife, Joni. And kind of growing up out there in front of the abortion mill, it kind of teaches you how to deal with things that a lot of Christians don't see in their lives.

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You can definitely see the demonic forces at work. I first got arrested when I was 10 years old, sitting down in front of an abortion clinic in west

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Des Moines, Iowa. And kind of grew up in a politically activist family.

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And I'm the second oldest of 11 kids. And I've got eight kids of my own, which

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I'm very happy to say I see the fruits of the faith in each of their hearts so far.

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My littlest is, well, she's like four months old, but she's a very sweet little girl and she seems to manifest the beginnings of a good

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Christian faith already. So that's kind of my story in a nutshell.

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I didn't have... My parents didn't really give me the option of not being taught the faith, so I guess you could say

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I was indoctrinated in all the grace, the best of ways, from a very young age.

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Well, one of my former pastors, who now pastors Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, he was formerly one of the pastors at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island, New York, in Merrick, where I was a member before moving to Pennsylvania.

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But Mark Romaldi, he has you beat. He has nine children. And his wife is still young.

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So there may be more, and they may even wind up forming their own religion.

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Well, the neighborhood joke was always, yeah, the Doors have enough kids for their own baseball team.

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We're not quite there yet, my wife and I, but we're one short, I guess. Well, I used this comment recently.

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It might have even been yesterday when I was interviewing your father -in -law, Kevin Klausen. But I said, this is a warning to anyone who even considers breaking into the

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Door home, because there's no doubt, at least ten people who are very familiar with the use of firearms.

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Yeah, it would be a foolish thing to do in the extreme.

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But, you know, you just look at what's going on in front of the Supreme Court and stuff like that right now, like the protestors and stuff.

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Foolishness seems to be the order of the day. So I wouldn't put it by somebody. Well, let me give our listeners our email address if they have a question of their own.

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It is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, such as perhaps you have a radically different opinion on this issue than your own pastor, elders, your congregation.

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Perhaps you're a pastor and you have a radically different opinion on this issue than your own congregation, your own fellow elders even, and perhaps even your denomination.

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Or whatever the area would be that would compel you to remain anonymous, we will grant you that request.

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But we ask you, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence if you're asking a general question.

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If it's not personal and private, please give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Well, first of all, explain more in detail.

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What does no -compromise gun rights exactly mean? What does that entail?

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Well, in politics, much as in,

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I guess, deal -making and business and life, if you sit down at the negotiating table and you just lay out very plainly for everybody at the table, this is exactly what

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I want. Well, if that's kind of your negotiating starting point, you're going to get less than what you're actually looking for out of that kind of a scenario.

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And especially in gun politics, it seems that extremes dictate the middle.

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And so for years and years and years in the gun rights community before I ever got involved in it, before my brothers and I ever got involved in it, gun rights advocacy looked kind of like a couple of good old boys who decided to get together and start chitchatting about gun rights and decide, well, they're going to call up representatives so -and -so.

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And it just kind of was an unorganized approach to really advocating for gun rights.

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Well, along came the Clinton gun ban in 1994, kind of woke everybody up a little bit out of their stupor, kind of everybody realized, oh, my goodness, you know, the

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Democrats, the left, these rhino Republicans, they will come and take our guns away from us if we let them.

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So we have to get a little bit more organized and militant about these things. So quite a few gun rights organizations started back then and kind of stumbled along for years and years.

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And kind of the modus operandi of the gun rights advocacy world was to ask for very small things in the hopes of getting big things eventually after 10 or 15 years.

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I think that kind of goes back to what you said about the pro -life community. Yeah, pragmatism.

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Yeah, pragmatism. And I'm not saying that there's never a situation for that, but in gun politics particularly, which is my focus for my professional career, extremes dictate the middle.

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So instead of saying, well, we want to be able to, you know, we want to be able to eliminate gun -free zones in some of these places.

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Well, instead of that, while we absolutely want that because we've seen the devastating effects of those policies, we go all the way to the right and say, you know what, we want constitutional carry.

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We want government out of the rights regulation business. We want full -blown stand -your -ground laws.

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We want the state to have to disprove a self -defense claim. We want these big, huge, robust protections for gun owners.

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While we can get them because we have the votes in these legislatures, we want these major things.

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What we've seen then, even if we can't get those major things, what we've seen is legislatures start to pass what we call those incremental pieces of legislation because as the general public responds to our mobilization efforts, as you start to get tens of thousands of people across the given state to start saying, hey, we want constitutional carry.

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We want this great big, huge, you know, robust piece of legislation. What happens is these politicians, in order to try to get political cover so they can go into the election season and say, well, yeah,

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I support the Second Amendment. I voted for this, this, and this. What happens is simply by making the case for these far robust, great big, huge bills, it starts the political class down the road of, oh, we actually have to do something for the gun rights community.

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And so over time, you see these expansions of being able to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. You should absolutely not be forced to disarm if you go and eat at a restaurant that serves beer with their steaks.

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I'm not saying you should consume a beer and have a steak, but you shouldn't. If you're going to go there with your family, by no means should you be forced to disarm, as is the case in some states.

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So the legislatures start to pass bills that fix issues like that. They start to pass bills that tweak some of the self -defense laws and make prosecution have to disprove a self -defense claim.

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They start to do these things. And instead of the conversation gradually getting further and further to the left and gun rights advocates and gun owners having to give up more and more of their freedoms, what happens is instead the conversation actually stops, which is good, and then starts to drift back over to the right.

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And because the gun rights community, in particular these organizations that my brothers and I run, have taken this approach, in the culture war that we're in today, which you can see the culture war raging when it comes to issues of abortion and gay marriage and all these different things, the one social issue that has not only been stopped from degressing further to the left, but actually reversed course and is making objective progress, is gun rights.

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And it's because of that approach. I guess that's the one half of it. The other half is our absolutely aggressive and that's the word for it, aggressive election season mobilization program.

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That's the other half of it. Not only are they hearing from these people during the legislative season when these bills are on their desk, but also at election time we mobilize those same people, those same voters.

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In elections we expose some of these bad politicians and then after the election is over, gun owners go out and they boot out these anti -gun rhinos or these anti -gun democrats and the politicians, the political class themselves, they take a look around and they say, hey, what happened to Joe?

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What happened to Bob? Those state reps were my friends. They're not here. What happened?

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Oh, the gun owners took them out. Oh, really? I better not.

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I better pay attention then next year when they have their gun bill.

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I better vote for that stuff. I don't want them coming after me. You see? So kind of the marrying of those two things, what happens during the legislative season and what happens during the election season together, it's proven to be very effective.

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Well, we have to go to our first commercial break. If anybody would like to ask a question of Chris Dorr, the president of the

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American Firearms Association, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

30:00

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

30:06

We'll be right back with Chris Dorr and our subject for the day, No Compromised Gun Rights.

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Don't go away. I'm Dr.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

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Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

38:04

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38:12

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38:29

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. And the fabric that makes up this red, white, and blue Cause I'll fight for my country till the day that I'm done

38:48

I've got my

38:54

God and I've still got my gun Raised up to stand up for what

39:04

I thought was right Welcome back. This is Chris Zarnson. If you just tuned in to Iron Shepard's Iron Radio our guest for the full two hours is

39:15

Chris Doerr, President of the American Firearms Association and we are discussing the theme

39:22

No Compromise Gun Rights A Christian's Opposition to Partial Liberty Regarding Self -Defense and Defending Loved Ones and Neighbors.

39:30

Chris, perhaps you can correct me if I'm in error here, but I have heard from reliable sources even on this program that the whole concept of gun control laws did not even start in the

39:46

United States until those that were frightened of freed slaves owning firearms began to insist that the government keep black

39:58

Americans or prevent black Americans from owning guns. Is that true?

40:06

Yes, that is It's funny, you don't hear the

40:11

Democrats talk about that very much. You don't even hear the Rhino Republicans talk about that very much but the origins of gun control were, yes, exactly to keep black people from being able to rise up against white people so it's kind of funny that here we are and the

40:29

Democrats are the ones trying to enslave everybody now. Of course, we patently reject and I would imagine most of your audience already understands this but we patently reject the idea that the

40:42

Second Amendment was codified in the U .S. Constitution and all these states codified it in their constitutions to guarantee that you have the ability to hunt deer the rest of your lives.

40:55

No, in human history the biggest killers of innocent life are not thugs and criminals much as the average

41:04

American might strap on a firearm today to protect themselves from. No, the biggest killers of innocent life in human history are governments.

41:14

So these rights were given to us by God. They were enshrined in these documents and to make sure that the people have the ability to keep tyrannical evil government in check.

41:32

It's just not something that's talked about very much in the whole battle for gun rights.

41:38

Yes, and one of the things that constantly perplexes me is that you have black folks living in urban areas of the

41:52

United States that are notoriously extremely violent where the death rates are high and many of them are very compliant with the leftists in government wanting to prohibit their ownership of guns.

42:13

It's ironic that someone could call me a racist when I believe that every black family in the inner city should be fully armed to maximum capacity.

42:26

And someone would call me a racist for that. That's the exact opposite of racism. I mean, this is really madness, isn't it?

42:33

Well, I think I get to interact with large numbers of gun owners on a daily basis.

42:42

I think we're seeing a lot of that start to get called out now for what it is. I think one of the largest demographics in America in the last four years for buying firearms has been black people.

42:53

I know that the members of the organizations that I work for, that membership has been exploding with large numbers of black people that are sick and tired of being lied to by the left.

43:08

They see the policies that the left has been cramming down their throats for several generations now.

43:15

They see the violence that is the outcome of the left's policies, and they're starting to reject it.

43:23

They're like, you know what? We're not getting anything for our support for these people. And they can see their cities burning down.

43:31

They can see the violent crime out of control. They can see their innocent kids getting killed in the streets.

43:38

And they know that those things aren't because of the mere presence of firearms in a culture.

43:43

They know that it's the human heart that originates that evil, or it's where that evil comes from.

43:50

They know it's not the inanimate objects themselves. And so they go out and they're like, you know what? I'm going to start taking action and steps to defend myself and my family.

44:00

So go to any local gun store today. There will be black people in there. They're buying them by the throats.

44:08

And it's great. Yeah, praise God for that. When it boils down to the essence of this, this whole subject, really what you have is not only a patently obvious attempt for tyrannical leftists and rhinos to not be in fear of their lives when they continue robbing

44:38

American citizens of their freedom and liberty. But they're basically saying, without ever using these words, the average

44:49

American citizen is not to be trusted with firearms because they're not morally equivalent to we who are in political authority.

45:00

And they're too stupid. And they are just downright unreliable and untrustworthy.

45:10

So therefore, we who are in political power, we who have places of authority in government, only we should have the right to have our lives and the lives of our families protected with firearms, particularly with bodyguards and so on.

45:27

And the rest of you are at the mercy of 911. And it's ironic because one of the biggest complaints you hear about the police departments in the inner cities is that they take forever to respond to such emergency calls if they ever show up.

45:47

And that is what they want our only resort to be, calling 911. It's just utterly amazing how people don't see through this.

45:58

Well, that's really a problem. And no wonder so many people are confused. And no wonder confusion is the order of the day.

46:04

On the one hand, you have people saying, you know, you have a lot of people saying, defund the police.

46:11

Well, you know. And then on the other hand, you have them saying, only the police can be trusted with firearms.

46:17

You shouldn't have the right of self -defense. And, you know, the whole country is beginning to understand that this mindset of what is good for me is not good for thee.

46:30

I mean, one thing Americans are pretty good at is defying some, you know, tyranny in some way, shape, and form.

46:37

And so none of this stuff is passing the sniff test for these people. So, you know, what we preach at these organizations is the fact that, you know, the

46:48

Constitution, the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights, and like Article 1,

46:54

Section 4 of the Ohio Constitution, or Article 1, Section 19 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, what the government doesn't want you to realize is that those are not restrictions on individuals.

47:08

Those are restrictions on government. That gets back to my original point. The founders were never concerned about, you know, deer hunting or things like that.

47:18

They knew, they had just gone through defeating the world superpower that had gone tyrannical.

47:24

So they codified these things as a restriction on government. And, you know, the same government does not want you to know that as they sit there and practice what you just said, which was they don't want to trust the people.

47:40

I think it's a lot more nefarious than that, though. It's not that they don't want to trust people. It's that they have objectively evil agendas that are completely antithetical to Scripture, and an armed population can keep that evil agenda in check a whole lot more easy than a population that is simply sitting there on a bended knee in prayer.

48:06

You know, so it's one of my big pet peeves in life is these Christians who sit there and say, well,

48:12

I'm going to pray for this situation when they can actually stop praying and go do something.

48:19

You know, I use, for example, like take a train coming down the tracks at a

48:25

Christian who is standing on the tracks. What's the better thing for that Christian to do? Should they pray that the train would stop, or should they use the common sense that God gave them and simply get off the track and let the train go by?

48:39

You know, so, it's a, it's, yeah,

48:45

I think that the government has a whole lot more than just they don't trust you in mind when they're trying to remove the individual right of self -defense.

48:55

Yeah, that would be the best case scenario when you have, because there are Christians, genuine

49:02

Christians, who are conservative in most areas of their thinking, who are naive about this.

49:10

And, you know, they, they are worried about your average person owning guns, perhaps especially automatic weapons and so on, and they haven't really logically thought this through.

49:28

And, they haven't listened to the, you know, the people who are more knowledgeable about this.

49:34

But it's interesting. I don't know, I know I brought this up before on my program, but the most radical, the most radical opposition that I receive from professedly conservative brothers in Christ who are actually nearly identical, if not identical, in their doctrinal and theological perspectives to me.

50:10

The most radical opposition I get about this issue comes from our dear brothers on the other side of the pond in the

50:21

United Kingdom. They have such, notoriously, have such a trust in their government, and they are astonished that we who are

50:35

Americans, we who are the colonists over here, have an innate, especially conservatives, have an innate distrust for the government.

50:47

Perhaps you could get into that for a little bit. In fact, why don't you delve into that when we come back from our midway break, because we are entering into our midway break, and I don't want to interrupt you mid -sentence, so we'll have you touch on that when we come back.

51:02

And once again, if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

51:08

chrisarnson at gmail .com is always give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

51:15

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Please be patient with us, folks, because this is the longer break in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the

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51:42

They have to do that with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air during this midway break, while we simultaneously are airing our globally heard commercials.

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So please use this time wisely, but write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them.

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But when you can't do any of those things, please, at the very least, contact our advertisers using the contact information they provide in their ads, and thank them for sponsoring

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52:54

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Before I return to Chris Doerr and our topic today which is,

01:09:22

I think, a very important topic and a very misunderstood topic No Compromised Gun Rights a

01:09:27

Christian's Opposition to Partial Liberty regarding Self -Defense and Defending Loved Ones and Neighbors before I return to that discussion we just have a couple more announcements to make.

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chrisorenson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can send a question to Chris Dorr on the theme no compromise gun rights a

01:12:39

Christian's opposition to partial liberty regarding self -defense and defending loved ones and neighbors we right before the break

01:12:48

I began mentioning something that I do with fear and trembling because I don't want to unnecessarily offend any of my brothers in Christ in the

01:13:00

UK and in other places where it is very common even for a Christian to have implicit trust in their government but here in America those that tend to be more conservative perhaps than your average citizen

01:13:18

I think that we have innately a very healthy distrust for government authority and if you could tell us your own experience about that issue regarding the trust versus healthy distrust of a government when it comes to gun rights well

01:13:41

I think it's trust versus trust it's kind of a we have a healthy respect for legitimate authority here in America I think we have probably the best system of government that's ever been you know constructed but I think from the outset here in America and maybe this is what separates

01:14:02

America from all the other countries is that they're not America we are and our country was birthed in this whole idea that our legitimate government which was the

01:14:15

English government at the time became illegitimate because of certain different things and because of that we had to fight a war for independence from that I'm just I'm not telling anybody anything new here but as a result of that distrust then our founding fathers wanted to make sure that it was they knowing what human history and what human nature is capable of they wanted to create a system of government in which the people are ruled by consent of the government and that the people have the maximum ability possible to protect themselves from that government becoming tyrannical again the

01:14:56

English king Henry III King George III I'm sorry

01:15:02

I'm getting my tyrannical kings mixed up he he instantly tried to seize the firearms and the ability for the for the colonists to protect themselves and our founding fathers got to see that they got to witness that and they got to create a system of government after they successfully defeated that attempt and so they enshrined these things in the

01:15:27

Bill of Rights and in the state constitutions all across the country the majority of the states

01:15:33

I think six states don't have self -defense in their state constitutions

01:15:40

I know Iowa my home state is one of those states and they're trying to fix that right now but you know just thinking back in history like the point

01:15:52

I said earlier governments are the largest killers of innocent people a lot of people like to bring up the example of Australia as an example of a government that while they went and outlawed the right of individual firearms ownership and their murder rates started to decline well according to the study they put out there anyway in our response that is simply well the murder rates have declined until the government of Australia decided to turn on its own people and start committing genocide against them if you gave me a couple minutes

01:16:30

I could probably come up with a list of the that have committed genocide against their people and that is the primary concern that is the primary objective that we are fighting for when we fight for gun rights

01:16:44

I guess we could boil this down a little bit further why is the reason why we do what we do as state level operators and as gun rights activists is because it is a life issue defending innocent life is a life issue much like the move to outlaw abortion is a life issue and I guess it boils down to the very fundamental reason why it is wrong to kill someone we really do believe that man because man is made in the image of God an attack on innocent humans on innocent people an attack by the government the tyrannical government on its innocent citizen population is an attack on God himself because we are made in his image so I think that is the basis of the commandment against murder that's why we fight to codify the right of self defense at the state and federal levels and to those people across the pond that have intrinsic trust in the government

01:17:46

I would just say read a little bit further back in your history no matter what country you live in you can probably find some examples of when your government turned on the people yeah

01:17:58

I attended years ago this is when George W.

01:18:03

Bush was first running for president and I went to a fundraising event for Alan Keyes who was running for president in the reform party and when someone in the audience asked him what is your primary reason for being radically opposed to gun control and he said it's very simply this one true concept absolute power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely the famous line from Lord Acton and the dangers that you can escalate and multiply when you when you render an entire population of citizens or subjects depending upon which way you are looking at it when you render them absolutely defenseless helpless and harmless you could be creating a tyranny that didn't even exist before or to the level that you are helping to create by basically rendering a population completely impotent and it's interesting how leftists when they reflect upon history you will very rarely find a leftist who will be complaining about the

01:19:37

Jews in the Warsaw ghetto during Nazi occupied Poland you'll never hear leftists complaining about the

01:19:47

Jews who were for a while holding back the Nazis because of the fact that they had firearms and they were defending themselves that is all really what we're talking about is that that the citizens of any given nation should have the freedom to protect themselves not only from criminals that may be rampant where they live or any you might have criminals that try to break into a home and cause harm even murder in areas where there is very little or no crime and you still need to protect yourself but even from a government you want to add to that?

01:20:34

Yeah well I would say that we don't even need to go back to the 1940s to try to find an example of the manifestation of what we're talking about here just go back two years look at America versus what has happened in communist

01:20:48

China where the right of firearms ownership does not exist look at America versus Australia right now if we did not have firearms in America they would have been dragging

01:21:00

Americans out into the streets over these shutdowns and imprisoning

01:21:06

Americans by the thousands like they have been doing in Australia and in China and in a myriad of other countries and I think what you said just a second ago was kind of something

01:21:19

I've never really thought about before but by simply disarming people or having a population disarmed it creates the temptation for tyrannical rulers and people involved in government to take the power because they can we've seen certainly seen that in the last two years when governors had the chance when these health directors had the chance to take government

01:21:43

I don't know if any of them that sat on the sidelines and did not seize government bureaucratic government always wants to get bigger it certainly did in the last two years when these governors had the chance to dramatically increase their power over the people they took it without apology without even hesitating and it's my submission after having seen many of these governors and worked with their administration and their staff and stuff up close people should be totally alarmed at the idea of losing your firearms ownership your ability to defend yourself these people will go way worse they will go way further than you can possibly imagine if they are given the opportunity to so yes this is a life issue this is an innocent life issue and we need to fight very hard to protect it otherwise we could look like a different country very quickly.

01:22:43

We have B .B. in Cumberland County Pennsylvania who has a question

01:22:50

B .B. asks are there any people in the

01:22:55

United States that you believe should be legally deprived of gun ownership?

01:23:03

Well I think there are capital crimes that should be paid that should be you know if somebody gets raped or murdered or kidnapped or some attempted murders these things

01:23:18

I think those people should pay the price for their crimes. I think we shouldn't beat around the bush

01:23:24

I think execution after somebody has been tried and convicted by a jury of their peers

01:23:30

I think we've removed justice so far from our culture today that people just have a hard time understanding what that would mean again but if a killer gets executed if a rapist gets executed

01:23:44

I think those are good and just and appropriate. If somebody has committed a crime and they've done their time for it they've paid their price to society the judgment that was handed down by just judges and rulers and things like that and juries.

01:24:02

If you're free to walk amongst us I think you should be able to defend yourself. In particular non -violent felons of today people who have committed like white collar crimes or financial crimes or things of that nature those people are deprived by federal law of firearms ownership and in many cases state law.

01:24:24

I don't think that's appropriate. I think if you're free to walk amongst the citizenry you should be able to defend yourself.

01:24:35

So there's very limited people who shouldn't be restricted from owning firearms. Well in our system sadly more often than not we care to realize murderers and rapists get out of prison.

01:24:56

How about those folks? That's murderers and rapists should pay the real price for their crime.

01:25:07

Right but many of them don't. Yeah well so that's

01:25:13

I guess that's a question I haven't considered enough to give a total and complete answer to.

01:25:19

So I think the injustice there is the primary concern that our population should be concerned with.

01:25:26

And definitely I as the leader of several state based gun rights organizations

01:25:32

I'm certainly not going to be pushing my state legislature or the state legislature I'm working with to reform the gun laws so that felons who were convicted of murder or you know whatever can have their firearms rights restored to them.

01:25:52

There's a lot of gun rights bills that we're going to be considering before we ever think about something like that.

01:26:00

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York who wants to know what kinds of weaponry do you think that your average citizen should be legally able to possess?

01:26:17

Well it's an American tradition that the citizenry be able to own the same kinds of weapons and arms that their government does.

01:26:29

You know again this is one of those situations where I think I'd start little and then go big from there.

01:26:34

I think one of the reasonable restrictions that I could get behind is if and why a very smart man once told me this he said the only restrictions

01:26:45

I can really agree with is if you own a tank you should not be able to drive that tank on the city streets without having good rubber pads on the tracks so that you don't damage the public property.

01:26:59

Oh great now I've got to get rubber pads for my tank. Terrific. Yes, rubber pads.

01:27:06

Your rights can't infringe on other people's rights. So there, rubber pads for the tank. And you hear a lot of these leftists leftist politicians and pundits in the media who are revealing very often their real serious ignorance of all things related to firearms.

01:27:34

Can you give us some examples of that when they highlight certain guns and exaggerate the danger and all that kind of thing?

01:27:42

Well, yeah, you know you're dealing with an A grade maroon as Bugs Bunny used to say back in the day when you hear somebody like Jen Psaki who is a resident of Biden's communications director for now, apparently she's going to be replaced here very shortly, but when she says something like we have to get rid of these fully semiautomatic machine guns, well, a fully semiautomatic machine gun doesn't exist, or when they use the term assault weapons ban and they can't define what assault weapons means, you know, and again, keeping context is always important.

01:28:21

These people can't define what a boy is or what a girl is. Or they can, they just don't want to.

01:28:29

Well, yeah, they say they don't exist or they say that men can be birthing bodies or something like that.

01:28:38

So I was out in front of the Supreme Court two afternoons ago, and, you know, that was one of the arguments that people were trying out was, you can't talk about the life issue because you don't have a uterus.

01:28:50

I said, what are you talking about? I can be a birthing person if I choose, right? And they're like, wait, what?

01:28:59

Yeah, they don't realize how many times the things that they try to push backfire on them.

01:29:05

Well, yeah, they don't like to live up to their own rules, that's for sure.

01:29:11

So, yeah, you see it all the time when gun control proponents like President Biden stand there and they say things that the entire gun rights world, that the entire gun owning world know is factually inaccurate, but that doesn't matter to them.

01:29:32

They're not interested in the truth, they're not interested in the terminology. The media certainly never holds them accountable or points out their stupidity.

01:29:41

You know, it's because they're all in it together. Their agenda is one of the destruction of firearms ownership because they have a larger agenda that they want to implement after those firearms are taken away.

01:29:57

And that's one of the reasons why we keep fighting very hard right now while we have the votes to expand gun rights and to get a lot of these things codified and on the books in these different states.

01:30:13

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York asks, women are very often the victims of violence regardless of what anyone says.

01:30:25

It is obviously they are on the average physically weaker and more susceptible to be brutalized, although obviously there are also physically fit women trained in the martial arts who could very easily fend off a man, but those are a rare exception.

01:30:46

Having said that, are there even feminists who are turning around in any significant numbers regarding gun ownership?

01:30:58

One of the benefits to having people like President Biden in office or one of the benefits of the eight years of the

01:31:10

Obama administration and even quite frankly one of the benefits of watching the media's reaction to these school shootings and these mass shootings all over the country and the media's reactionary howl and demand for gun control as a result, one of the benefits of all these things collectively is that more and more people are forced to choose a side.

01:31:36

15 years ago it was common place in America that you just didn't have opinions on different things.

01:31:43

When the summer of 2020 came around and you watched Lake Street and the south side of Minneapolis get torched and you saw the summer of violence and the

01:31:56

Antifa people taking to the street, that erased a lot of that middle ground, the fence -sitter mentality, especially of these suburban women who used to sit there and think we can all become

01:32:12

Democrats us will live in this happy world. When you have people marching in the streets with machetes and torches causing billions of dollars worth of personal property damage, shooting people, tearing apart people's gated communities and the protections they had, those images were a powerful motivator for people to take an honest look at what they thought about these things.

01:32:46

As a result of that, we have seen gun purchases, the sales records get shattered month after month after month after month, and millions of people went out.

01:33:03

I think women, I'm not sure if it was the largest demographic versus males, but certainly it was a more explosive growth of women purchasing firearms than any time in American history, and it's simply because the effects, the ramifications of the left agenda for this country were put on full display, and people got to see what a world would look like under their total and complete control, and America's response, women's response, law -abiding citizens' response, was to rush to their local gun store and purchase as many firearms as they could get their hands on, and as much ammunition as they could get their hands on, and there wasn't enough of it, but the stock is starting to catch up now.

01:33:53

So there is a growing number of women who are recognizing the enormous value to not only owning a gun, but learning how to use it properly.

01:34:08

Yes, it's skyrocketing in number. Now, it used to be that women just didn't really have an opinion on these things, but believe it or not, and some people don't like it when

01:34:18

I say this, but one of the great things about Facebook and Instagram, social media, is that women who already have firearms and love them and practice with them, they're able to shoot videos of themselves doing these things, and those videos have gone viral time and time and time and time and time again, and so they've normalized – a lot of people critiques these social media platforms for the payload of filth that they're very well known to deliver, but one of the unintended consequences of these platforms is that they normalize the idea of these mamma bears who just you know what these are my kids

01:35:00

I'm gonna protect them so here I am here's a video of me at my local shooting range I'm I'm learning how to shoot my my

01:35:08

Hellcat and I'm getting really good at and here's my target and all of a sudden people are like hey you know what I guess

01:35:13

I guess that's not such a fringe thing to do after all that person looks normal you know and yes women have been have been going to the gun stores in droves and purchasing firearms and we we have an anonymous listener who says

01:35:33

I am constantly getting into disagreements with people in my own church here in New York City over the issues of gun control

01:35:44

I believe that people on the average who live in a metropolitan area where guns are scarce amongst the average citizens they have a tendency to not have the love for the

01:35:58

Second Amendment as many in other parts of the country where it is such a commonplace thing to see people carrying guns

01:36:07

I was wondering how you believe we should get it into the minds of those that are in that category that they are on the wrong side of the issue and that the removal of gun control laws is nothing but a benefit to the life and safety and enjoyment of liberty of American citizens

01:36:30

I think that's a great question and I know the gun rights community has struggled with this for a long time how do you show these people how do you get to them because we don't a lot of the gun rights activists they don't live in these places they don't frequent these places they try to avoid them

01:36:46

I'll be honest about it we try to avoid them as much as we possibly can because of the laws and a lot of these different places but one of the things that we're seeing right now is a dramatic increase in violent crime in places like Philadelphia and places like New York City and people like st.

01:37:06

Louis and people are people see the violence on the streets around them they see all these these attorneys prosecutors and district attorneys and stuff that are put into these positions by Soros and I'm not making this is not some conspiracy theory this stuff is very well documented you can go and find the funding sources

01:37:27

Soros is placing prosecutors and in a lot of these big cities he's funding their campaigns to get them in place that they're so that they stop prosecuting violent crime stop locking these people up and because of that the violent crime rates are skyrocketing all across America and people in these cities are seeing this for themselves how bad it's getting and they know that it's not firearms themselves that are that are creating this they can see the cultural change happening around us and and so they're going in and finding these things out for themselves they're taking steps to move out into the suburbs and you know

01:38:10

I know that's not for everybody but we as gun rights organizations definitely target them with social media ads and and things like that to try to get them involved sadly there is there is less and less of an ability for these people to go to a local gun shop because a lot of these cities which are run by anti -gun leftists they're creating city ordinances that drive these businesses out of their cities so there is no local gun shop for them to go to and and try firearms for themselves a lot of the time the biggest inhibitor to people who live in cities like this is the fear of the unknown you know most people today probably the idea of driving a car with a manual transmission is very scary to them because they have no idea how to do it they've never done it before they probably don't know anybody who has it's the same with gun rights once you want somebody comes along or gun once somebody comes along and brings them into a gun shop for that first time they go through the basic safety steps they show them how easy it is how controllable it is how safe it is how fun it can be well that that doubt that fear is just erased the moment the first time you get them in the door that's the hardest part getting them in the door the first time after that it's quite easy but the the

01:39:38

Democrats the people running these city councils they're definitely making it harder for for the for people who live in those situations and in those cities to expand out and try these things simply because with their city ordinances so it's not an easy question to answer but I hope

01:39:58

I have well we have to go to our final break right now it's gonna be a lot more brief than the last two breaks if you have a question

01:40:07

I would highly recommend that you send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time our email address is

01:40:13

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

01:40:21

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter we'll be right back with Chris Doerr don't go away.

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Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. Welcome back.

01:49:38

Chris Store, we have a question from Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

01:49:45

She wants to know, I have been highly recommended to read a book by John Arlott called

01:49:54

More Guns Less Crime. Do you know anything about this book and do you recommend it and are there any other books on this topic that you do recommend?

01:50:06

John Lott is probably the most prolific writer on these kinds of topics, especially when it comes to reporting factual data.

01:50:17

Yes, I absolutely recommend reading the book. John does a great job in that book of debunking the myth that expanding firearms freedom actually increases crime.

01:50:30

It doesn't. He does a good job in that. I think one of the primary test cases in that book they use is

01:50:35

Florida. Florida was the first state to pass Stand Your Ground law in 2006 and Stand Your Ground laws is one issue that the left has done a very good job of mislabeling for their political purposes as a racist piece of legislation.

01:50:56

It's the exact opposite of that. It removes any consideration of race or things like that from self -defense situations, but John Lott does a really good job in that book.

01:51:13

The book is actually a little bit dated now. I would say, and I don't remember what the name of his organization is off the top of my head, but I would say he publishes quite a few studies on a frequent and routine basis.

01:51:27

You can go to his website and get more information for that, if you're interested in the studies and stuff behind the push for gun rights.

01:51:35

His organization is actually crimeresearch .org. Yes, yes. And if anybody wants to listen to an interview

01:51:42

I did with John six years ago, I interviewed

01:51:49

John on February 29th, actually, of 2016.

01:51:55

He was a part of the interview and the second half of the interview was conducted by Dr.

01:52:03

Ron Gleason, who addressed the very same subject, God and guns, the

01:52:10

Christian right, and duty to protect self and family. Well, actually, the first part of the program,

01:52:17

John was dealing directly with his book, More Guns, Less Crime. But you could go to ironsharpdesignradio .com,

01:52:26

ironsharpdesignradio .com, and type in L -O -T -T in the search engine.

01:52:31

That's John's last name, John R. Lott, and you will find the audio link for that interview.

01:52:39

Another book I would recommend for people who are a little bit interested in this whole topic of the political side of gun rights is a book called

01:52:51

Confrontational Politics by Senator H. L. Richardson. You can get it off of Amazon or eBay.

01:52:58

You can probably get it for cheaper than 20 bucks. It's on Amazon for $20, but it really kind of gives a 30 ,000 foot view to this model of politics that we employ for these different state level and the

01:53:14

American Firearms Association gun rights organizations. Because the left isn't interested in truth.

01:53:22

They are not confined by the boundaries of telling the truth. You know, they can sit there in committee meetings or when they're offering testimony to legislatures, they can sit there and rattle off numbers that are concocted by think tanks that are paid for by Bloomberg or Soros or any of these people, and they don't care whether or not what they are saying is true.

01:53:47

They are there to have the media report what they say, and so we can come back in there with a million facts.

01:53:55

We can, you know, we've brought John Lott and people like that in to state legislatures before to testify in legislation to provide accurate numbers and factual data to a lot of these people, but the

01:54:07

Democrats and the left and some of the rhinos, they just don't care about the truth. They're there pursuing their worldview, their agenda, and that's why a lot of the times when it comes to the political side of these things, we don't get down into the weeds of the statistics and the numbers because the audience doesn't care in the first place.

01:54:28

It's a matter of political power. Either we have the people to force them to do these things or we don't, and that alone is usually what determines the outcome of whether or not a bill passes or fails.

01:54:42

So that book, Confrontational Politics, it kind of gives a 30 ,000 foot view of the battle.

01:54:52

We've definitely perfected it from there. That's kind of a good starting point, but yeah, it gives you a better idea of how politics, especially gun politics, works in America today.

01:55:06

Well, I want you to have three minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding the subject today,

01:55:16

Chris. Oh boy, I probably should have prepared for that one, but I think what

01:55:27

I can say is probably what everybody is already realizing, and that is we are in a culture war here for the soul of our country.

01:55:38

All these things tie back to their control of our schools and their indoctrination of the next generation and a lot of these different things.

01:55:48

In many ways, I think the battle for gun rights is kind of a rearguard fight.

01:55:55

We're trying to defend our flank long enough to get maybe the church firing from the front or to take control back of our schools, but we're in a culture war, and the day that we get disarmed as a population, we're going to watch

01:56:11

America transition from a first world to a third world country type of banana republic very quickly.

01:56:19

And it's not just on guns, it's on abortion, it's on babies, it's on this transgenderism stuff, it's on what's being taught in our schools.

01:56:29

And if we advocate these grounds, these battle grounds, we as Christians are going to not only just lose the fight, but we can't really contemplate what that would look like for our kids and our grandkids.

01:56:42

And so I just encourage, I really encourage Christians all across the country to get involved in some way, shape, or form with organizations that aren't just preaching platitudes and praying and singing kumbaya, but need to get involved with organizations that are going out there and picking aggressive fights on the gun issue, on the life issue.

01:57:12

If they're not going all the way towards life of conception all the way, well, they're just not fighting hard enough.

01:57:20

But on the life issue, on the education side, defunding the left in all the different ways that they get funding from state and federal government, get involved in this stuff now, because it's easy to do that now.

01:57:35

It's easy to fight for freedom right now. You can do it simply by supporting organizations or sending emails, but learn how to be in touch with your state representative.

01:57:47

Be willing to be very insistent with them on the phone. A lot of the times Christians today think that they have to be nicer than Jesus when they speak with them on the phone.

01:57:59

We have a representative government right now, and we need to take maximum advantage of that while we still have the chance and the opportunity to peacefully settle our differences.

01:58:12

So get aggressive. Get a little bit outside of your comfort zone. This isn't 1995 anymore.

01:58:20

We live in a very aggressive world now where the left is going to cram their entire agenda down our throats if we don't stand up and fight back.

01:58:30

And sadly, it's our kids and our grandkids that will pay the price for our inaction if we don't do what is necessary right now.

01:58:40

So I don't know how long I have left in my three minutes. Actually, you don't. Perfect, perfect.

01:58:47

And I want to have time to remind our listeners of the website where you can find out more information about American Firearms Association.

01:59:00

It is AmericanFirearmsAssociation .org. AmericanFirearmsAssociation .org.

01:59:09

And assuming that people can also find out about how they can invite you to speak at their church, school, other organization.

01:59:20

Yeah, just send... there's a contact form on there. Just fill it out and make a request right on there and that will get back to me.

01:59:28

And we'd be happy to set something up. Great. Well, I want to thank you so much for being such an educated guest and for being so thoroughly knowledgeable about this subject.

01:59:41

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater