May 26, 2021 Show with Chad Epperson on “The Lie of the Sacred vs. Secular Life”

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May 27, 2021

May 26, 2021 CHAD EPPERSON, a successful Christian business owner who is CEO @ United Treating & Distribution, Director of Philemon Fellowship for Anchored in Truth Ministries, & Board of directors for the Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama, who will address: “The LIE of SACRED vs. SECULAR LIFE”

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host
00:59: Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensirenradio .com.
01:21: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 26th day of May 2021 and I'm thrilled to have as a first time guest today
01:34: Chad Epperson, a successful Christian business owner who is
01:39: CEO at United Treating and Distribution. He is the director of Philemon Fellowship for Anchored in Truth Ministries and a member of the
01:51: Board of Directors for the Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama. Today we are going to be addressing the theme,
01:59: The Lie of Sacred vs. Secular Life and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Chad Epperson.
02:10: Hey Chris, really excited to be here brother. I'm excited to have you on the program and why don't you let our listeners know something first of all about United Treating and Distribution.
02:22: Yes sir, we just had our 15th birthday, we're on our 16th year.
02:27: We have around 70 team members here between plant employees and truck drivers.
02:35: We have a trucking company as well included in that and we are a business of business.
02:41: We manufacture personal treated lumber and what you would use outside of those tents or deck kind of wood for retail lumber yards as well as different manufacturers that would use wood and we also re -manufacture lumber for different types of construction of maybe utility trailers, that kind of stuff and we ship to about 20 states, truckload quantities.
03:06: And if anybody wants more information about United Treating and Distribution, go to unitedtreating .com
03:14: unitedtreating .com Now let us hear something about Anchored in Truth Ministries and even more specifically about the
03:25: Philemon Fellowship that is a ministry within Anchored in Truth.
03:32: Yes sir, Anchored in Truth is the missions arm of Grace Life Church of the
03:37: Shoals here in Maine.
03:43: Me being the director of Philemon Fellowship is new, we're just getting that started. But Anchored in Truth itself has church partners where we may partner with a church to help them get established or re -established.
03:57: There might have been an existing church and anywhere from the boring logistic stuff all the way certainly to theology and training as well.
04:06: We have the Pastors Training Institute that we're coming at. We also do church plants where we plant a church domestically and internationally.
04:15: We have a Bible college in the Philippines that has quite a bit of churches connected with it as well.
04:22: And that's just a summer thing. We have missionaries we support as well directly. And we have of course our church part of it.
04:30: Individuals contribute as well as other churches have joined in with us to use it as a missions arm as well.
04:38: The Philemon Fellowship is about trying to gather up people that either own or run a business or an executive in a business that can make culture change and try to get us together to promote excellent business practices that will glorify
04:58: God to better support the church financially as well as be a blessing and support to our local pastors and their ministries.
05:08: It will be one of the focuses as well as try to bridge that divide that sometimes can be between pastors and business leaders.
05:17: Sometimes it seems like the state does a good job of keeping them away from each other. We want to build a bridge there to better work together under the authority of the pastors.
05:31: So if anybody wants to find out more about Anchored in Truth, go to anchoredintruth .org.
05:39: And we will be airing throughout this broadcast commercials in every break for Anchored in Truth and you'll hear more about them in those ads.
05:51: And last but not least, tell us about Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama.
05:57: Yes, sir. That's dear to my heart. I was in the mid -80s, was in that home myself.
06:07: For many years now, I've been on the board as an adult and serving with them.
06:15: They were established in 1973. If you can imagine back then or maybe it happened some place today, if your parents got arrested, there was nowhere for the police to take you but jail with them, you know, until they could find a good social worker or whatever.
06:34: And just lots of crazy situations. There was kind of a gap there until the juvenile system could get involved.
06:42: So we serve ages 10 to 18. We're serving at -risk and disadvantaged youth, mostly served through the family court system or licensed by the
06:52: Department of Youth Services. We serve approximately about 100 children per year. The average length of stay is 32 days.
06:59: When I was in, I was there for three months, so sometimes less, sometimes more. I mean, there's just all kinds of things from just basic clothing and, you know, a lot of these children have never really, didn't come from a home of structure.
07:12: So it's really an aid -tension home, not detention. There's parents that live there full -time.
07:18: They have different levels of rewards and stuff to do chores.
07:25: And, you know, how does a normal household work? We also work with the parents to try to give parenting classes.
07:33: And so the house parents take care of them as their parents. And a lot of times, and it was, you know, for a lot of times, it's their, you know, first foray into having maybe a normal, stable home life.
07:45: So anyway, so we're just trying to serve those children and make a difference in their lives and show them a different way of life before they get into detentions, they continue down, you know, some bad paths.
07:57: And where in the United States are most of these children from? There, there's three counties.
08:04: It's northwest Alabama. We serve Colbert County, a county called Lauderdale County, and Franklin County.
08:11: So they're all, you know, 99 % of children from one of these three counties. Well, you actually, the way you described that ministry sounds nearly identical to a ministry that is near and dear to my own heart, the
08:27: Timothy Hill Children's Ranch in Riverhead, Long Island, New York, where I have been supporting that ministry for quite a number of years, going back to the late 80s, early 90s.
08:42: And the co -founder of that wonderful ministry, Fern Hill, just went home to be with the
08:50: Lord last week at 86 years of age. Dear sweet lady, survived by her husband,
08:57: Jerry, and several adult children, but quite a providence that you have a ministry that seems nearly identical to the
09:08: Timothy Hill Children's Ranch. And by the way, if anybody wants to find out more of that, about that ministry serving
09:14: New York, timothyhill .org, timothyhill .org. Now you are a
09:22: C -12 group ambassador, and in 2019, you won the
09:30: C -12 Hero Award. What is the C -12 group? So C -12, it is a business, it's a for profit business that is built around providing a value to business owners or CEO, executive levels, to number one, it's excellent
09:51: NBA level material every month that we're learning from a business standpoint, but also how does that support it by the
09:59: Bible, make sure we're doing business in a way that honors God. There's also a devotion time and we'll do a ministry segment to help you better understand that this is not your business, it's
10:15: God's business, and how we steward in His business, it's really not ours, it's
10:20: His. And then how can we as a business do ministry, all the way from gospel presentations to you know, treating our people different than the world does, so really a whole 360 on the business from a biblical perspective, as well as just solid business tactics that are
10:42: God honoring. And then it's a national, even international, there's Brazil, some other, a couple other countries that it's in, but it's got about 2 ,000
10:52: CEOs in it, and then about another close to 1 ,000, what we call key players, like I send two other people from my company to a separate group, the same material, but that's people that aren't the owner or the
11:05: CEO that can learn these principles, and it helps the owner better implement those things into the business.
11:14: So I've been a member for 12 years, believe in it, I pay to be a member of that,
11:19: I go all day, once a month, I spend time with about roughly 12 other people, you know, and there's multiple groups in our area, but I've got a particular group, and it's, you know, they hold you accountable.
11:31: It's not for the business owner, especially to be around Christians that are going through what you're going through, don't have anything to gain or lose by just telling you the truth.
11:42: I mean, they're just there to love you, hold you accountable, and keep you accountable, do the hard things.
11:49: And that website is c12group .com, c and the numbers one, two, group .com,
11:58: and I believe I failed to give our listeners the Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama website, that is attentionhomesofNWAL, an abbreviation for Northwest Alabama, dot org, attentionhomesofNWAL dot org.
12:22: Well, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own regarding our theme today, the lie of sacred versus secular life, our email address is
12:33: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
12:39: Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
12:45: USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And we have a tradition here, before we go into that theme, the lie of sacred versus secular life,
12:57: Chad, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we air a first -time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, including what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, they were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign
13:15: Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them. So let's hear your story.
13:23: Thank you, Chris, I appreciate the opportunity always to share how God redeemed me and how thankful that He done that.
13:31: I grew up single, my mom and dad got divorced about a year and a half, dad was my life, wonderful man, that's why
13:38: I don't believe the Lord, but he and my mother passed as well. We had a couple of step -dads, we always went back to my grandfather's house, he was a missionary
13:50: Baptist preacher, and so I was around, because I'm from the South, if your third cousin went to church, you're a
13:58: Christian almost in the South, and I'm obviously joking there, but the influence was around.
14:03: But we'd always move back, we moved a lot, in multiple cities and counties, a couple different states when
14:12: I was growing up. So, you know, I'd made a profession of faith at a young age, but it wasn't genuine, and I was kind of a rowdy youth, started drinking and doing drugs at 11 years old, was running the streets, living in my car at 16 some, and so certainly wasn't living as a
14:38: Christian, so the fruit didn't bear, for sure. The fast forward, I got married,
14:44: I was in the army, quit drinking and drugging about at 19 years old, and I'd been doing it for about a year before then, and cleaned up my life,
14:56: I got out of the army, went into a sales career, and so what I tell people once again is I found my bottom, what the world would call the top, so I'd got a sales job selling cars, did good there, ended up getting in the lumber business, selling lumber.
15:13: My dad worked at a lumber company, I didn't work with him there, but he helped me get on the job selling lumber.
15:20: So I was making really good money, I thought to be happy I should make a lot of money, be married, have kids, have a motorcycle and a hot rod.
15:31: For whatever reason, to me that was success, and I'd achieved those things.
15:40: We would have been to the church every once in a while when we felt guilty or something, we'd visit a church near Milwaukee, and one of the churches we visited, which is
15:49: Grace Life Church of the Shoals, one time, I got on this list of theirs, which they would come visit me for visitation, because I visited one time and filled out that card, you know, give them my name and address, and they would come visit me, and we didn't know when visitation was, because they'd come so much, we'd be like, hey it's
16:08: Monday night, let's go out to eat or something, those people are going to come, and they would come.
16:14: Anyway, we had a revival, and they used to have a thing on the first day of revival called Friend Day, and my two sons at the time, young sons, what would have been their teachers, and then my wife, what would have been her
16:28: Sunday school teacher, got her to commit her and them to come to church, and back then you had this card you filled out, and you signed it saying,
16:37: I will be there. And I wouldn't do it, I said, I'm not going, I've got, I'm just not going, and so comes the
16:45: Friend Day, my wife wakes up ill and says, honey,
16:51: I'm not feeling good, you know, I have promised these ladies, I signed this card that we would take, that I would bring the kids.
17:00: I said, I'm not doing this. Anyway, she finally convinced me, and then she says, oh, you got to take them to Sunday school too.
17:05: I said, wait a minute, you want me to take them to church, and then you want me to take them to Sunday school. So anyway, I did, you know, and so I go to this class, and I always thought
17:14: Christians were perfect. My son Dave portrayed that, that's the way I saw it. I knew I was a sinner.
17:20: I knew I couldn't live up to his standard, and so I was in this guy's Sunday school class, and he was a big man.
17:27: I'm talking about tall, manly man, deep voice, and I remember he taught a lesson, and glorified
17:33: Christ taught me that lesson. But at the end, he said, guys, if y 'all follow me the rest of the week, and go to work with me,
17:42: I'm going to blow it some. I'm going to fail. I've never heard anybody, really, a Christian admit they sinned, and they weren't perfect, but he said that there's one who is perfect, and who loves you, and basically give a gospel presentation, and I just was undone.
18:02: The last barrier that I would give was that I couldn't live up to it, and the answer was, no,
18:08: I can't. And I'm sure I'd heard that a million times in my life, but God was just ready that day, for that message for me that day, and I gave my life to Christ that day, and that was
18:20: May of 1995, 26 years ago this month, and praise
18:25: God, and look back, yes sir. Hallelujah. Always love hearing how our sovereign
18:34: Lord rescues people from the world, the flesh, the devil, and themselves, and rescues them even from their own alleged righteousness.
18:47: So, the theme that we have today is the lie of sacred versus secular life.
18:56: There are people that actually profess to be Christians that take that dichotomy to an extreme, and actually live like they are two different people.
19:10: There are people who save their Christian behavior for Sundays, or whatever days during the week.
19:20: They also may gather with the saints, and then the rest of their lives, and perhaps even their businesses, they are running them like the devil is in total control, and that obviously is a sign that somebody is not even really regenerate.
19:42: But what do you mean specifically about the lie of sacred versus secular life?
19:48: Yeah, and I agree with your characterization there, but those would be the two extremes of that that would be obvious to spot.
19:57: I believe there's also a large part in the middle there that there may be somebody that is a believer, but they've been taught that faith is something private in your secular world, if you will, or what people want to call it, your mundane job.
20:15: You don't talk about religion, and Christ, and that kind of stuff.
20:20: It's a personal thing, and the scripture just does not bear that out. It tells us to be a light, set upon a hill, to be salt to the world.
20:33: It talks about letting your faith be known. Don't hide it. It's talking about, you know,
20:40: I think even good Christian brothers and sisters kind of leave church, you know, believers, edified to a degree, but then there's the world system that they're willing to plug into on Monday morning and do things.
20:58: So in my context is business. I'm a business owner. I do a lot of business owners.
21:04: I know a lot of, you know, there's a lot of good brothers and sisters out there who aren't intentional about saying, you know, wherever I am in my life, my main goal is
21:17: I'm a minister of reconciliation. I am an ambassador for Christ. The reason
21:23: God saved me wasn't for my purposes. They were for His purposes, and wherever He's given me favor and influence and dominion,
21:31: I'm to be lifting Him up. And I think the church even propagates to a degree,
21:38: I mean the church in general, because we're taught that, you know, if you really got it and you really love
21:44: Jesus, you're either a pastor or a missionary. You've got to go and full -time minister to serve the
21:50: Lord. And I don't think that's what they're meaning to say, but that's sort of what the lay people see, and that they somehow, that these
21:58: Bible scriptures that call us, that tell us that we're ministers of reconciliation, that tell us we're ambassadors for Christ, that we're to be about the work of the
22:08: Lord, that it's more of a call for those paid professionals, not for us in everyday life.
22:15: And not just as I have an opportunity, but how intentional am
22:20: I in those areas of my life to make sure that I'm, you know, like in my business for instance,
22:25: Chris, I work hard at, you know, spreadsheets and measurements and KPIs and planning, being strategic and all that.
22:35: Well that's great and wonderful, I should do that, but where am I doing those things for God's glory? Where am
22:41: I being strategic about what are we going to do to glorify God in this business?
22:46: You know, what have our policies said? Do they really love people and do they seek to build people up?
22:54: And so that's just one way, but I think, you know, sometimes it's,
23:01: I'm in the sector from just an omission standpoint, that I'm not being intentional to be sacred everywhere.
23:09: You reminded me of a story that I just told recently on this show with a different guest, but I think it bears repeating, especially because of what you just said in your description of our theme today, that it reminded me of a story that has been confirmed as an accurate story by some
23:30: Lutheran pastors and scholars that I know, but Martin Luther was approached by a cobbler, and the cobbler said to Martin Luther that he believed he would better serve
23:45: Christ if he uprooted his wife and children and moved to a foreign land to be missionaries, and he asked
23:57: Martin Luther what his opinion on that was, and Martin Luther said, you are a cobbler, am
24:02: I correct? And the cobbler said, yes. He said, well, my advice to you is make a good shoe and sell it at a fair price.
24:11: So obviously, Martin Luther was not opposed to missionary labors, but there are people that fail to recognize the place where God has placed them in their lives and the location that they have can be in and of itself a ministry, and obviously,
24:34: I think it's very important, and when we come back from the first break, which we are going into any second now, we'll have you respond to my concerns that, in fact,
24:51: I'm sure that pastors deal with this situation often all over the world where members of their congregations are abusing the time at their places of work where they are not an owner of a company.
25:10: They are answerable to owners and presidents and CEOs and so on, and they are, instead of doing the job they've been hired to do, they're evangelizing or they are passing out tracts or reading the
25:25: Bible when they're actually robbing the time from their own employers.
25:32: But I'll have you respond to that when we come back from the break. If anybody, as I said before, if anybody has a question for Chad Epperson on the lie of sacred versus secular life, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
25:48: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N -G -M -A -I -L .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
25:57: USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back with Chad Epperson after these messages from our sponsors.
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36:45: If you just tuned in to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, our guest today is Chad Epperson, a successful Christian business owner who is
36:52: CEO of United Treating and Distribution, director of Philemon Fellowship for Anchored in Truth Ministries, and a member of the
37:00: Board of Directors for the Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama. We are discussing the lie of sacred versus secular life.
37:08: Our email address, if you have a question, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
37:14: Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence. And as I said before the break,
37:20: Chad, there are unfortunately Christians, sometimes they're well -meaning, but sometimes it's using the cloak of Christianity, of faith, perhaps even of self -righteousness, to legitimize being a slacker, a slugger at work, not doing what you're being paid to do.
37:51: So you could go around chatting with people about Christianity or perhaps even just condemn them for their sins or false religion and pass out tracts or sitting somewhere reading the
38:02: Bible or something. That is not at all what you're talking about, is it? No, not in the way that you said it, of course not.
38:12: I guess, number one, we're under authority. If we're employed by someone, we're under their authority, and each different business may have a different level of of, you know, being okay with some of that and some may not want it at all, and you kind of have to read the room and be sure you're honoring your employer in that way to speak.
38:35: If I could real quick, what you ended with, the story about the cobbler and being a good cobbler,
38:40: I a thousand agree with that. It's hard to say, let me tell you about Jesus or try to witness to someone, and you're the one that's always late, your work is lackluster, you're always trying to find a reason to not do your job.
38:58: We should be marked as someone with excellence who is always trying to do more than is expected, not less than is expected, not just to our employer but to our fellow employees, customers, whoever we're dealing with.
39:12: We should be marked with love and excellence, especially if we want to represent
39:18: God the Father. Amen. Now you, as the CEO of United Treating and Distribution, you are in a unique position where you're not an employee, you're not bound by the stricter guidelines that might be in place for the employees as far as how they use their time, but nonetheless, before I go to any listener questions, if you could give us some examples and even some practical guidelines how business owners and CEOs might learn from examples that you can provide of how you run
40:01: United Treating and Distribution and use this business in some fashion as a ministry.
40:09: Yeah, so the context of I'm a business run by a
40:15: Christian owner and or CEO, I believe we have an opportunity to create a different environment than your typical business would do.
40:28: First, before you even try to witness in your business and all that and what you should do, you need to work towards being an excellent business.
40:39: Now, excellence doesn't mean perfection, it means the pursuit of it and always trying to serve all the stakeholders very well.
40:47: If I see another company with a fish on their card, but they don't call you back, they don't do what they say they're going to do, that is a bad testimony.
40:57: Now, we should not be a testimony to Christ, we should just do things excellent so people will represent
41:04: Him well. So, I have a unique opportunity as the leader of this business to create an environment that welcomes
41:16: God's love and His truth in the business. There's certainly a balance, but that's just where I'm saying there is no secular and sacred.
41:24: Surely God didn't equip me the way He equipped me, made me the way He made me, give me the opportunity to spend most of my waking hours at this place of work, but He's given me stewardship and leadership over me and wants me to just simply work on making widgets and making money.
41:44: I can't find biblical where that would be the case. Now, I should make widgets excellently. I need to make money to keep the mission alive.
41:51: There is no mission if there's not margin in the business. I should do it fairly and all those kinds of things and with honesty and treat people well.
42:01: But you have a unique opportunity to actually unleash the church in your business. Now, can people go too far there?
42:09: Sure, I can't have a guy that's supposed to be loading a truck parked outside instead of loading the truck reading the
42:16: Bible for casual Bible reading. No, he needs to do that at home. But I certainly encourage, one thing,
42:24: I have a Bible right here at my desk. I've got other people with Bibles. If we're working on a problem or trying to find something, sure,
42:31: I'm all for it. I want somebody to open that Bible up and seek wisdom or a biblical principle that would apply to what we're going through.
42:39: We have a chaplain. I have a chaplain that comes here once a week and talks to people doing work and just loves them.
42:46: Sometimes he's talking to them about Christ. Sometimes he's just talking to them about their marriage, their children, their aging parents.
42:55: So, we have an opportunity to create an environment that for that work to be excellent but that we can propagate with intentionality.
43:06: I have key performance indicators on our ministry. How many events do we have that proclaim
43:13: Christ? How many people talk to the chaplain? How many people call him at night?
43:18: I know how many people called him after I don't know what they talked about, but I know they reached out to him. So, we have all kinds of metrics that we use to try to continue to allow not just me but the whole business to love people with the love of Christ.
43:40: Our mission statement is that we're committed to glorifying God while serving and treating our team members, customer suppliers, and communities and families the way we want to be treated.
43:50: And that's based on the first and second greatest commandments. As you know, with the, you know, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul.
43:56: And the second, like you just to love your neighbor as yourself. Just treat people the way you want to be treated. And that sounds easy, but they just don't do it that often.
44:04: So, you know, that's just a taste of some of the things we do here in ministry.
44:10: We have people, you know, multiple people a year give their life to Christ here.
44:16: We're not a church. We're not trying to be a church. We are an extension of our churches living the gospel out day in day out.
44:25: You mentioned something that hasn't even occurred to me before. What a wonderful idea if you are capable of doing this.
44:36: Obviously, this is not an obligation of a business owner, but if a business is lucrative enough and the means are there, what a wonderful idea to either have a volunteer chaplain or a paid chaplain on the premises at your business.
44:58: Not, again, so people can escape doing their job for counseling by a chaplain, but for those during a lunch break or a coffee break who might want to pop into the chaplain's office or if they want to arrive at the job early before their hourly wages are earned, they can meet with the chaplain or after work is over, etc.
45:26: That's an outstanding idea that didn't even occur to me. Yeah, I was a paid chaplain.
45:31: There's actually several services in the country. Some of them are national. Ours is a national one.
45:38: That's what they specialize in is providing business as a chaplain. He comes once a week for several hours.
45:45: He's available 24 -7. I'll tell you, Chris, even from a business owner talking about return on investment, we want to believe that people hit the door and they don't bring their life with them.
45:57: That's just not true. What happened last night, last week in their marriage, their kids, their aging parents is on their mind.
46:10: He'll sit with them and have a two -hour session on work time, but he'll talk to them for five or ten minutes.
46:16: Then after hours, they'll talk on the phone or something and have an extensive counseling session.
46:23: He's done funerals for us, weddings for us, for our people. They didn't have a church home or something.
46:34: From a return on investment, what I can say is our turnover is way down because we just love on people.
46:42: Our productivity is up, actually, because they know we love them and care about them. It's not just about what can
46:48: I squeeze from them. That environment creates an environment where they want to do better and to be a good team member here.
46:58: They know we truly love them, not for what they do for us, but because they're God's image bearers.
47:05: God has called us to love people in His name. Believers and unbelievers respond to that very well.
47:15: I'm actually a more productive company because we take time to talk about Jesus.
47:21: I pray before meetings. We pray about things. We call scripture.
47:28: We share the gospel every Tuesday via all of our media outlets. We pray for our customers and send them prayer cards, and our employees and send them prayer cards.
47:39: Like I said, it creates an environment where people want to do better. Even though technically there's less time they're working, they're so much more productive and happy.
47:49: You're helping them solve that problem with their marriage, with their children, with their aging parents.
47:55: You come alongside them and give them resources. I have a service I subscribe to that has thousands of videos that deal with all kinds of life things from a biblical perspective that they access.
48:07: It's providing resources to reach their everyday lives. So when somebody's late,
48:14: I used to be, why are you late? You're late. Let me beat him a little bit. They still shouldn't be late, but now the question is, tell me what's going on with you.
48:22: What happened? Well, my child was up before this morning filling up, and I know I should have called, and I didn't.
48:28: I'm sorry. Well, if that wasn't a pattern, there's something I can administer to them. Are we holding people accountable?
48:33: We are a very accountable company. Instead of looking at what they do against me, let me find out what's going on in their lives.
48:42: Let me help them grow as a person. Because you know this business, it'll burn up and go away.
48:49: All that I accomplished through money and power and all that stuff is temporary and worldly.
48:55: The impact I make on life for God's glory is all that will last. Amen. We have an anonymous listener who asks,
49:06: I have been treated more cruelly by professing Christian bosses than I have ever been treated by those in the secular world.
49:17: There are businesses out there that are owned and operated by professing
49:22: Christians that use the excuse that if they are going to glorify God through their business, they have to be the best business they can be, and in order to be that best business they can be, they should imitate what their competitors and others in their field are doing to be successful, and sometimes that includes things like ruthlessness and being overly harsh and strict with employees.
49:51: I am so overwhelmed with joy hearing of your story. Can you please give some words of counsel to Christian executives, leaders, and business owners out there, how they should never imitate those negative things of the world just because they may appear to produce successful results?
50:13: There's a lot in that, and I'll say amen to several things there. I'd like to start with, I'm a daily repenter.
50:21: The things and truths and principles I'm telling you is as a habit what we do.
50:30: I fail and blow it, and I have to repent of that. We all have to do that.
50:36: It continues with the pen. Most of us go around the world with an either or mentality.
50:44: It's either this or that, and I'm a big believer in most answers are both and.
50:50: Yes, we should be excellent, absolutely excellent, but don't tell me that I've got to use the world's wisdom to be excellent or even use their metrics to be excellent.
51:00: Excellent to me is defined by the Bible, the Spirit, people
51:05: I'm accountable to, and how I love and treat people is the definition of excellence. Now, that is not sloppy agape.
51:13: Let me just share really quick what a Christian company is not.
51:19: It may be easier to say that. It's not the source for a lobby hood to mean that God has chosen to supply our needs at present, but He's the source.
51:29: So look, I'd ask maybe that listener to pray for those folks that have harmed him.
51:38: I agree with him. As I said earlier, if I get another Christian fish business card, and when
51:44: I try to visit that person, they're the worst plumber or whatever I can deal with, it just drives me crazy.
51:52: So it's out there, especially to employees. A lot of times, business owners are under a lot of pressure, and sometimes he doesn't know any better.
52:01: He hasn't been trained on how he can love people and get results.
52:09: You know, beating on people, I've been a tax commissioner. Look, I've got to just confess here,
52:15: I've done it the wrong way for years, and God continually through 612 and through my personal
52:22: Bible study continues to show me, hey, you're missing it, dummy. You know, this thing is about God's kingdom, and I would have always said that, but a lot of my practices were worldly business practices that I had learned at other businesses.
52:38: And so, you know, I'm still a repenter. I'm still learning, and I don't know if I answered that question fully, but I agree with the listener.
52:49: Give grace where you give grace. The Bible says when somebody harms you, go to them. Go and talk to that brother.
52:55: If he's a truly a believer, and you go to him with the right heart and spirit, maybe he'll repent and you'll warn your brother.
53:01: Amen. And we have to go to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us, folks, because it's the longer than normal break in the show.
53:07: Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the
53:14: FCC requires of them to localize this program to Lake City, Florida, geographically, and they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things.
53:25: While they do that, we air our globally heard commercials, so please use this time wisely. Try to write down as much of the information provided by our advertisers as you possibly can, so you can respond to them and even thank them for sponsoring this show, which will go a long way.
53:41: And also, use this time to send in questions to our guest today, Chad Epperson, on the theme of the lie of sacred versus secular life.
53:50: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with Chad Epperson.
54:29: Through preaching, teaching, and singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M.
54:35: Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker. For details, visit g3conference .com.
54:41: That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321.
54:49: This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.
55:09: As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
55:16: The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
55:25: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
55:33: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
55:39: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
55:44: God -centered focus, reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.
55:52: Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
55:59: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
56:08: .com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com,
56:15: or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
56:25: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the
56:44: Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.
56:55: Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.
57:07: With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how
57:13: God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally.
57:21: To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.
57:39: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
57:45: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
57:53: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
57:58: NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the
58:10: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the
58:15: First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
58:21: I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my
58:27: Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the
58:34: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the
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58:51: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the
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59:28: Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com
59:37: website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the
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01:00:15: Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com
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01:00:35: Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
01:00:45: And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in New York.
01:00:55: Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. You don't have to owe me anything.
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01:01:55: Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:02:01: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
01:02:10: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:02:22: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:02:29: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:02:42: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
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01:03:00: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:03:05: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
01:03:42: And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.
01:03:50: That's why Truth. Love. Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents
01:03:56: God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the
01:04:05: Scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness. Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.
01:04:21: This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:04:27: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support
01:04:32: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:04:48: Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:04:55: If you live near Franklin, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:05:08: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:05:18: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:05:26: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:05:32: Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.
01:05:43: The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.
01:05:49: Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org. Featuring speakers such as Dr.
01:05:55: Owen Strand. If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right. No, it's not.
01:06:01: Only Jesus Christ makes the world right. Darrell Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast. Sinners, like you and me, can be reconciled first and foremost to God, and consequently to one another.
01:06:13: Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas. Like Satan in the garden, rote hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the
01:06:21: Word of God. I don't say that lightly. Also, hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown.
01:06:26: Confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the church, and answering with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
01:06:34: The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference coming to Denton Bible Church, June 11th and 12th. Register online at wokenessandgospel .org.
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01:07:09: Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
01:07:21: Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting books for all ages.
01:07:29: We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
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01:07:43: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. a perfect place to do your shopping because not only will you edify and bless the life of your dad if he is a
01:08:25: Christian, but you will also possibly be used of God to lead your dad to eternal life in Christ through one of the biblically -based books at solid -ground -books .com.
01:08:37: The Lord has not only used the Bible, which he primarily uses, and has used throughout the centuries of the
01:08:46: Christian church to lead the lost to salvation, but he also uses excellent
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01:09:00: So consider that when you are looking for a Father's Day gift. Go to solid -ground -books .com.
01:09:07: And remember, you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor by purchasing books from them, and you're not only going to be doing
01:09:16: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by keeping a very important advertiser happy, you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you purchase gifts from solid -ground -books .com
01:09:27: an enormous favor of incalculable value because they publish and bring back into print nothing but the finest in Reformed Christian literature from the past and the present.
01:09:40: So go to solid -ground -books .com frequently and purchase generously. Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:09:49: We just have a couple more announcements to make before we return to our guest today, who is
01:09:54: Chad Epperson, a successful Christian business owner and CEO at United Treating and Distribution, Director of Philemon Fellowship for Anchored in Truth Ministries and a member of the
01:10:07: Board of Directors for the Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama. Before we return to that discussion that we're having with Chad on the lie of sacred versus secular life, we just have some announcements that we need to make.
01:10:21: First of all, you've been hearing on the program Everyday Ads for the
01:10:27: G3 conference where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia.
01:10:36: Some of these ads feature the name of Voti Baucom as one of the speakers on the roster.
01:10:42: There is a question mark next to Voti's name now because he had to undergo quadruple bypass surgery not long ago.
01:10:50: Although he is recovering very well, he is not out of the woods and it is yet to be certain whether he will have the health and energy and stamina to return to the roster.
01:11:05: I hope that he does because I am looking forward to, as I always do, hearing him speak along with 20 other speakers at the
01:11:11: G3 conference. Remember, for registration, go to G3conference .com.
01:11:18: Also, mark your calendars for tomorrow. We have Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker who are both co -hosts of the
01:11:30: Just Thinking podcast. They are also going to be at the
01:11:35: G3 conference. Daryl is going to be speaking at a conference where he will also be manning an exhibitor's booth next month.
01:11:44: The Wokeness in the Gospel conference that you have been hearing advertised as well.
01:11:51: The Wokeness in the Gospel conference which is being held in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.
01:11:59: Tomorrow, both Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, who are both black brothers in Christ, are going to be addressing the theme,
01:12:09: The Wokeness Movement's Rejection of Diversity Among Black People.
01:12:15: We hope that you make a note to tune in tomorrow, Thursday, to hear that interview.
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01:15:12: Those two things are commands of God and scripture providing for your church and family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God and scripture, but if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for recreational and trivial purposes, and you love this show, please share some of that money with us to help us remain on the air.
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01:15:45: Lastly, folks, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, theologically sound church, no matter where on the planet earth you live,
01:15:55: I may be able to help you find a church. Sometimes even within minutes of your own home, I've helped many people in our audience, spanning the entire globe, find churches near them that they didn't even know existed, or they didn't know the churches that they passed by every day were theologically sound.
01:16:13: So if you are in that category of being in need of a biblically faithful church, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:16:21: chrisarnson at gmail .com, no matter where you live in the world, and I will be eager to help you, if at all possible, find a church near you.
01:16:30: That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to Chad Epperson, our guest today, who is discussing with us the lie of sacred versus secular life, chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:16:46: chrisarnson at gmail .com gives the first name, city and state, and country of residence. And Chad, we have
01:16:54: Tyler in Patchogue, Long Island, New York, who says, do you think that Martin Luther's emphasis on the priesthood of all believers is important to this discussion?
01:17:10: Uh, absolutely. We are all called to the same ministry of reconciliation, and all believers are responsible.
01:17:19: This is not the hired pastor or staff member's job to, only to spread the gospel and the love of Christ and even be a part of the sanctification process for fellow believers.
01:17:34: I think it's absolutely necessary. Well, thank you,
01:17:39: Tyler. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says, would you mind sharing some of the ways that you tried to make your business a ministry, but failed as you mentioned before the break?
01:17:55: Some of the things that you learned from that were failures or that things that weren't working quite right, and you learned from those mistakes and made your company not only a better company, but even a better ministry.
01:18:09: Yeah, you may have to give me nine more episodes to cover all those. But that's been one of the blessings of like C -12 is being, you know, able to get in there, and you know, a lot of times a guy can't tell you what to do, but he can say, look,
01:18:27: I tried that and here's the ten things that didn't work. Watch out for that. But, you know, mostly would be learning that when
01:18:40: I walk in the door, remembering the perspective isn't necessarily the business and only.
01:18:51: Like, normally, I used to have viewed everything from, well, you're right, that's how this affects the business.
01:18:57: Now, I should care about how it affects the business. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but as I said earlier, learning that all of those things that go wrong, consider
01:19:06: James Chapter 1, right? Consider all of George Martin's various trials. So I've learned that when things aren't going right around here, there's an opportunity to minister to somebody, even if it's just teaching them something, you know, re -reminding them something, finding out what's going on in their life that kept them from performing excellently and really addressing the root cause of the problem in that person.
01:19:30: Because I believe I hire, we have a stringent hire process, so we believe we've got the right people on board for the most part.
01:19:37: So there must be something, some other way I need to serve them. So that's much of a mindset shift that has greatly changed the impact we're having on people's lives and in my life as well.
01:19:51: Because the less you think of yourself, normally the happier you really are at peace.
01:19:59: We have Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.
01:20:06: Christopher asks, are there certain laws that may differ from state to state that would prohibit an employer from evangelizing his employees or having any specifically
01:20:21: Christian witness to them at the place of business? I am so grateful for that question, because I was wanting to talk about that so specifically.
01:20:33: So there's an organization of Christian attorneys called the Alliance Defending Freedom.
01:20:39: Oh yeah, very familiar with them. In fact, I made use of them when my dear friend,
01:20:45: Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries debated the notorious left -wing
01:20:51: Barry Lynn, who at the time, he may still be, I'm not sure, he was the president of Americans United for the
01:20:58: Separation of Church and State. And Dr. White debated Barry Lynn, who is an ordained
01:21:04: United Church of Christ minister, a very liberal denomination, to put it mildly. They debated on, is homosexuality compatible with biblical
01:21:13: Christianity? And Dr. White so clearly won this debate with Barry Lynn.
01:21:22: And he was so clearly outraged and humiliated and embarrassed being a
01:21:29: ACLU attorney, on top of being the president of the Americans for Separation of Church and State, that he threatened to sue
01:21:39: Dr. White if he made the video of the debate available. And the Alliance for Defending Freedom, which used to be the
01:21:49: Alliance Defense Fund, they stepped in and Barry Lynn and his organization didn't even show up at the hearing, so the judge sided with Dr.
01:22:01: White. But that was just a little wave of me plugging the
01:22:08: Alliance for Defending Freedom. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so they're the ones that will have a Hobby Lobby victory in the
01:22:13: Supreme Court. You know, you've heard the news stories of the baker out west who was sued for not making a cake for a homosexual wedding.
01:22:26: Certainly there's many more cases you don't hear about, but they're not just about defending you in that type of setting, which they are.
01:22:36: They put out a guide every year, it's called Faith in the Workplace Guide, and it gives you some good general advice if you're in the
01:22:48: U .S. They have an international version as well, or international group that works on international law.
01:22:56: Yes, there could be some nuances about state, they can help you with that. Here's the main principle
01:23:01: I wanted to tell Christian business owners and leaders. The more open you are about the faith, actually the more protection you have.
01:23:11: So for instance, if I was to have somebody and there was nothing about God in my hiring packet, there was nothing on the walls, and then three months later
01:23:22: I come in and ask them to let me pray for them, or I pray for them, or I say the name
01:23:28: Jesus Christ or something, well then they can claim a hostile work environment.
01:23:36: But like here at my company, you've heard my mission statement, it starts with committing to glorifying
01:23:42: God. We openly tell people at the application point that we're a
01:23:47: Christian company, you don't have to be a Christian to work here, but there's prayer here, it's all through our values, so they know, when they even think about coming here, that that's the environment we are.
01:24:00: And like I said, big time, you don't have to be a Christian to be here, but you've got to understand that Jesus' name can be spoken, prayer is going to happen, teaching on biblical principles is going to happen, because everything we do is based on, you know, a biblical principle that we can apply directly.
01:24:19: And so it's kind of an option one, the more open you are, the less likelihood you're going to have a legal problem.
01:24:26: Now anybody can sue anybody for anything, but it's the exact opposite, because most, and I was at one time too,
01:24:34: Christian business people are scared to death. They say the name of Jesus is going to get sued.
01:24:40: So it's just how you do it, and there's a wise way to do it, but you can actually be extremely open and evangelical.
01:24:46: I share the gospel quite often in group meetings, a straight out gospel presentation.
01:24:54: If anybody wants to find out more about the Alliance Defending Freedom, the organization that my guest
01:24:59: Chad Epperson just mentioned, ADFlegal .org, ADF as in freedom, legal .org.
01:25:09: We have another anonymous listener who says, do you think as Christians sometimes the wiser approach when you are being hassled or abused or threatened or having your pay cut or anything like that because of your
01:25:30: Christian faith, the wiser approach at times may be not to stand up for your rights, even if everything you're doing is legal, and to just move on to look for another job.
01:25:42: Is it always the best thing, to fight for your rights? You know, there probably needs to be some detail to get an exact answer because if this person is talking about, hey,
01:25:53: I was lowly paid because of my faith, because I read my Bible four hours a day at work, or I was harassing people and screaming at them that they're going to go to hell if they don't repent right now during work hours.
01:26:07: If that kind of stuff was happening, they may need to repent themselves of how they're doing things, how they honor their employer.
01:26:15: If it's true persecution of, you know, it wasn't that type of thing, absolutely you stand up for your rights, but at first do it humbly and try to seek understanding of that person that's doing that to you.
01:26:32: Probably it didn't happen overnight that you went from where you are to your pay getting cut or whatever's happening, and I'm not sure it'd be legal to pay for those reasons, but that's my thoughts there.
01:26:46: And I assume that you would probably agree that there are certain jobs where you should definitely stand up for your rights, like if it's a government job and there are other people there who are, during their lunch breaks and other times, spreading whatever it is they hold near and dear that has a leftist ideology and goal, and yet you are a
01:27:13: Christian and being silenced, I think that that would be an ideal time.
01:27:20: But don't you think that there are some circumstances, especially if a person is not necessarily in urgent need of retaining that specific job, they know that they have other opportunities elsewhere, that it might be the best
01:27:36: Christian witness to say, hey, I disagree with you vehemently, I think you did me wrong,
01:27:42: I'm going to be praying for you, but I'm going to move on because you obviously are too disturbed by my presence here.
01:27:50: Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's always this particular answer.
01:27:55: I would say it's always okay to stand up for your rights, and I wasn't saying earlier that that person stand up for their rights,
01:28:00: I'm just saying you always look for what is my part in this conflict, and is there something
01:28:06: I need to repent of or make right first? Second of all, God has you there for a reason.
01:28:14: What is that reason? Has He released you to leave there? What is He calling you to do?
01:28:20: It would be a huge part of that, and it's good to be in prayer and hopefully have some people that you're accountable to that help you pray for that, because God's never shocked or surprised.
01:28:31: He wasn't like He didn't know that was going to happen. So what is His will? What is He trying to do through this situation?
01:28:39: It would be my advice to make a seek, but yes, you shouldn't shrink back from sharing your faith.
01:28:53: However, are you sharing from a place of, I just want to be right. Let me tell you why you're wrong.
01:28:59: Are you truly seeking their salvation or their sanctification and trying to glorify
01:29:04: God in the way that you're responding? Just check your heart in that as well. We have
01:29:11: Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says, don't you think it's very wise for Christians who are owners and presidents and CEOs and leaders and those who have authority to sometimes make it clear that you are learning from an employee, where an employee may have some advice that is very important for the company and may even point out a mistake or error or something that you're doing that is not quite the best way to be conducting a certain area of business and to use humility, even though you have authority.
01:29:56: Absolutely. I mean, just because I have the position doesn't mean I'm all wise. I'm all knowing and God uses the entire body to instruct and to rebuke each other.
01:30:08: So certainly the way that's done should be with honor and respect, not a stupid honor, this is why you're doing this.
01:30:14: Once you know you're an idiot and want to do it this way, you're not going to get too far that way. But absolutely, you should respect the authority because that doesn't mean that person's all wise.
01:30:23: As a matter of fact, it's unwise to think I know it all and nobody can bring anything new.
01:30:31: In fact, what I tell my people, when people are doing the actual work, normally they have the best ideas. Give me your ideas on how things can be better.
01:30:40: I may not be interested in mine now, but that's where the best ideas come from. We have
01:30:47: John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, do you have any practical counsel and advice on how bosses can prevent themselves from becoming doormats by their own employees by behaving more like servant leaders and Christians in their businesses?
01:31:11: My goal is I'm seeking to be a servant leader and I've still got to grow, but I think you absolutely should be a servant leader.
01:31:20: Servant leader doesn't mean lack of accountability or lack of control. We have strong accountability here.
01:31:28: We have strong standards and measures and we're always trained to improve, improve, improve.
01:31:37: As a matter of fact, leadership needs to be strong. Strong doesn't mean mean.
01:31:43: Strong just means clear, concise. They are listening to people.
01:31:52: I think leadership, that's a part of what leadership is. It's listening to others, but like I tell my management, we'll go in our meetings and we'll have discussions, but I need to know every single thing you think and where I'm wrong.
01:32:09: Then we'll make a decision and we'll walk out the door, lockstep, let's go. Not talking back behind, hey, he's stupid.
01:32:18: I knew that wouldn't work. That doesn't honor the Lord either. I don't know if I've answered the question, but that's my thoughts.
01:32:25: Yeah, I thought you did very well. We have another anonymous listener who says, do you think that it could be a very good idea, one that really reflects the love of Christ for business owners and other leaders in the business world to have various plans set already that will be there to help in any way you can when you must terminate someone, even if it's some egregious act that got them fired?
01:33:00: Sure. There should be lots of policies and practices there. I like to say
01:33:06: I never fire anyone. I acknowledge they would die to be fired. If somebody gets fired here, they've been well loved on, well coached, very plain.
01:33:17: This is the action that is not working. This is the corrective action we need to take.
01:33:23: I do believe it's the company's responsibility to make sure they're very clear and patient in training.
01:33:30: What we believe here is if I do enough patience and training and be clear with somebody about the expectations and be very open about that instead of mad one day and fire them.
01:33:40: Matter of fact, we will not fire somebody on the spot for 99 % of the time.
01:33:46: There might be a couple of things. It comes to a level of manager, we don't do it in a motion, would recommend that they be fired.
01:33:57: A group of executives and the managers involved will meet with the record. The question is, have we done all we can do to train and to coach this employee properly?
01:34:09: The answer is yes. We're saying, okay, you don't want to work here. If it's no, we say, what do we need to do next?
01:34:16: How do we need to serve this person? That's kind of the way we approach it.
01:34:22: I would imagine it would be a good idea if this person that you're firing is a professing
01:34:29: Christian and has a pastor that you approach that pastor and let them know the situation.
01:34:36: I don't know if that would be violating any legal restrictions for an employer to do that, but do you have any thoughts on that?
01:34:45: I don't know where that would be legally. You definitely have to be careful.
01:34:52: You'll hit the law of the mall, the way you share that type of stuff.
01:34:57: Like here, if you're my employee, Chris, I may be near another management counsel once a week for 13 weeks.
01:35:06: Almost nobody else in the company would know that. It seems like a surprise that you got fired because you can't openly say, hey,
01:35:20: I'm counseling Chris on this and he's not doing good. You can't do that.
01:35:26: I don't know. Certainly, biblically, I would say that suits authority and the elders and that.
01:35:32: I don't know how to answer that exactly, but it's certainly a good thought. I wouldn't discredit the thought of that.
01:35:39: Now, one of the things that I would think would come under this theme of using your business as a ministry would be how you spend your money as a business owner and doing things that are acts of benevolence that clearly demonstrate the love of Christ to those in the community and those with whom you're doing business.
01:36:06: Isn't this an important aspect of this? It is. In fact, I'll just real quick say on using it as a ministry,
01:36:13: I don't think it's something you should just do. I don't know what other choice there is.
01:36:19: If I'm a believer, I've been called to love others with the love of Christ. Wherever I am, whatever
01:36:25: I'm doing, it all matters for eternity. I just think there's no choice but to do it.
01:36:32: Yes, we do money for the community, for other ministries.
01:36:39: We have a thing called the UTD Cares Fund. It's a donor advised fund. Employees can contribute weekly at a paycheck.
01:36:47: The company will match those funds. That'll go in a donor advised fund. We support Anchorage and True. We support
01:36:53: Sheriff's Habitat for Humanity. We support Tension Homes Northwest Alabama. Then we also support...
01:37:00: We had an ice storm here and nobody could work for almost a week. So, we were able to take that UTD Cares Fund and pay the employees a percentage of their normal pay so that they could pay the bill.
01:37:16: We might pay for a funeral or whatever with that for employees or families or the community.
01:37:26: I think it's very important, but that should all come after the time to the church, to the local church.
01:37:33: Everything should be rooted in a local church as well. We have
01:37:40: Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says,
01:37:46: I have heard from people that I know, a very twisted version of what you are speaking about, that there is a lie behind sacred versus secular living.
01:38:02: I agree with everything that you have said so far a hundred percent, but what I'm referring to is that people who use this as a motto, who introduce things into corporate worship services that are actually a violation of scripture, where they are adding things that the
01:38:24: Bible nowhere gives liberty to have these things going on.
01:38:29: I'm not talking about sinful acts in and of themselves. They could be things that Christians may freely enjoy doing while they are going about on their day -to -day lives, but I'm talking about importing things into a specific worship service on Sunday that would be inappropriate under the guideline of there being no distinction from sacred and secular.
01:38:55: I hope that I'm making sense here, and what do you have to say about my statements? I don't know that I fully follow there, but I will say that in every walk of life there are evil hearts, and there are wolves in sheep's clothing, and normally over time the lie will bear out to what the person's motive was, by all means.
01:39:24: I mean, there are preachers out there that are in it for just the money, right? They're in a church, and they've got evil motives, and so the why that you're doing things matters, by all means.
01:39:37: Chris, maybe you can help me better focus on the point there. Well, I think, and perhaps
01:39:44: Susan Margaret, if I'm misinterpreting her, she can send in another email, but I was actually thinking about something before the show began under the same lines, whereas in our day and age, and it's been going on for far too long actually, there are churches that will use the line that might be similar to there is no separation of sacred and secular in a
01:40:15: Christian's life. They'll use that as an excuse to have a, for instance, a clown perform in a worship service, because there's nothing wrong with having a clown at your children's birthday party, so then we can have them in a worship service.
01:40:30: We can have a magic act in a worship service. We could have dancers and all kinds of things that the imagination can conjure up, because they don't see any line of difference between sacred and secular.
01:40:46: I think that may be where she's coming from, but I don't know that for a fact. Well, I'll answer from that perspective, then that is not what
01:40:56: I mean by sacred and secular. Certainly, I think there's lines there.
01:41:04: I mean, I'm not a, and I'm not using this to fully criticize this. Once again, it's the heart.
01:41:11: Am I depending on my, if I'm a church, and I'm in charge of the church,
01:41:16: I mean, and if I'm depending on my cleverness, my ideas to draw people in and keep them there, and I'm not basing things on biblical truths, then
01:41:30: I think I've started the race wrong. So, why do I think
01:41:35: I need to use smoke on the stage and all that, and have a concert -type event, and I'm not trying to pin anybody there, but my point would be, why am
01:41:50: I doing the things I'm doing? So, I do think there's a line there, and each person's got to really ask the heart, what am
01:41:57: I really trying to draw them in with? If it's anything but the truth of the Word of God, then it's not going to work.
01:42:05: It's not going to sustain. If I've got to entertain them and get them there and to keep them there, then the
01:42:11: Spirit doesn't have them there. So, you know, to say, I should use any means necessary, let's go get drunk at church to get people that like to drink too much and excessive, shall
01:42:25: I say, so I can preach the Word to them, I would say that's crossing a line, personally.
01:42:31: What we need are preachers that preach the complete free Word of God, that feed the sheep meat, not milk all the time.
01:42:38: Amen. I don't know if you are in agreement with what is called the regulative principle, but I think that would be a good way to explain that there is a difference in what takes place at a unique gathering known as a corporate worship service.
01:42:58: There's something different about that than what goes on at your home during a barbecue.
01:43:06: And everything that goes on in your backyard may be completely legitimate as a
01:43:13: Christian to do, but you wouldn't necessarily be doing it in a worship service.
01:43:19: Now, a church obviously can have barbecues, I'm not talking about that, but they wouldn't want to have a barbecue during a worship service.
01:43:26: Correct, yeah, that's right. Yeah, we're going to have a church picnic here soon, but it's not during the preaching and all that.
01:43:33: We're gathering together and having a picnic and having a fireworks show, you know, but that's not the day in, day out
01:43:40: Sunday in the worship service that we're doing. And we have to go to our...
01:43:47: Thank you, Susan Margaret, and we have to go to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks, but if you have a question that you'd like to ask, please submit it immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.
01:43:58: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Chad Epperson after these messages.
01:44:07: Fellowship and worship, one another, as we walk in the light.
01:44:14: Hello dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the
01:44:26: United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme,
01:44:39: Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including
01:44:45: John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Votie Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.
01:44:51: For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com.
01:44:59: Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3 2021.
01:45:06: This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. Linbrook Baptist Church on 225
01:45:22: Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a
01:45:29: Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
01:45:35: It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.
01:45:42: We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.
01:45:49: Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
01:45:55: Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org.
01:46:04: That's linbrookbaptist .org. I'm Dr.
01:46:13: Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
01:46:24: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
01:46:31: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:46:48: Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
01:46:55: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
01:47:04: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
01:47:11: That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:47:20: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:47:40: Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the
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01:50:23: New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.
01:50:32: Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic.
01:50:39: Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media.
01:50:49: To find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000.
01:50:55: That's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at leesdrugsrx .com.
01:51:03: That's leesdrugsrx .com. Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug
01:51:11: If you love
01:51:17: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.
01:51:24: One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is
01:51:30: Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.
01:51:36: Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?
01:51:42: To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.
01:51:57: Patafuco demonstrating the reliability of scripture. To advance the cause of the gospel they created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611
01:52:14: King James Bible. This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.
01:52:25: This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the
01:52:31: Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.
01:52:40: Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.
01:52:49: You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.
01:52:56: Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.
01:53:03: Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the
01:53:17: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:53:25: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
01:53:31: I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks New Hampshire and the
01:53:37: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and the
01:53:45: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and the
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01:54:22: Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
01:54:28: Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew tattered and falling apart?
01:54:37: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:54:47: Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
01:54:56: The Wokeness in the Gospel conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.
01:55:03: Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org. Featuring speakers such as Dr.
01:55:09: Owen Strand. If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right. No, it's not.
01:55:15: Only Jesus Christ makes the world right. Daryl Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast. Sinners like you and me can be reconciled first and foremost to God and consequently to one another.
01:55:27: Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas. Like Satan in the garden, woke hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the
01:55:34: Word of God. I don't say that lightly. Also hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown.
01:55:40: Confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the church, and answering with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
01:55:48: The Wokeness in the Gospel conference coming to Denton Bible Church, June 11th and 12th. Register online at wokenessandgospel .org.
01:55:58: Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.
01:56:06: Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.
01:56:18: There's radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people.
01:56:45: Chad Epperson, if you could please summarize in about two minutes what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding the theme we've been discussing.
01:56:59: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate that opportunity. Yes, the main thing I'm trying to say is, and I guess
01:57:05: I will say in sacred versus secular, from the day -to -day life of everyone, not necessarily in the church services, that kind of stuff, what
01:57:14: I was trying to say is, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, wherever God has placed you, a worker, a volunteer, a homemaker, a business owner, a leader, whatever you are, radio host, whatever you're doing, it's about God's glory.
01:57:33: If you've been redeemed, He redeems you for His purposes and His glory. Ephesians 2 tells us we are
01:57:42: His working ship, and He has prepared beforehand the works He has us to do. And peace comes from following His plan, being about what
01:57:51: He has created us to do. So if, in specific to the world
01:57:59: I'm in most times, speaking to business owners and leaders, I want to be specific to say, that business is not there for your purposes, just simply for you to make more money.
01:58:11: Nothing wrong with making money, but it cannot be the primary purpose. Excellent, yes.
01:58:18: The best reputation in your industry, yes, strive for that. Treat people with honor and respect.
01:58:26: But wake up every day with a perspective of, I'm here as an ambassador for Christ.
01:58:32: I'm here to be about being a minister of reconciliation, reconcile a lost world to Christ, helping believers move forward in sanctification so that they are given more glory to God, and understand how they can love on people in the everyday things of life, to earn the right to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with them.
01:58:54: Just look at everything from that lens. There is not a separation from this thing is holy, and this thing is not holy.
01:59:05: If you're a believer, God has called your whole life to be holy. He tells us to be holy, for He is holy.
01:59:11: And the reason why is because He is in us. That's the main thing I want to say. Amen. And I want to make sure our listeners have your various websites for the business owned by our guest today.
01:59:26: You could go to the website unitedtreating .com,
01:59:32: unitedtreating .com. For Anchored in Truth Ministries, go to anchoredintruth .org, anchoredintruth .org.
01:59:40: And for Attention Homes of Northwest Alabama, go to attentionhomes, n -w -a -l .org,
01:59:49: attentionhomesof, I'm sorry, attentionhomesof, n -w -a -l .org.
01:59:56: I want to thank you so much for being such a superb guest today, Chad. I look forward to you returning to this program. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.
02:00:05: I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.