Mary Is The Quickest Way To Jesus? Losing Salvation? | Collision w/ Jeff Durbin

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What's up, everybody? I am Jeff Durbin. You're watching Collision, and today we're interacting with two Catholic priests, one on the issue of salvation and whether Jesus keeps the ones that he saves, and the other one on Mary.

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Do we need Mary to get to Jesus? Let's do this. All right, so we're opening up today with, actually, these are just some short clips, but I think some important and meaningful conversations to have with our

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Roman Catholic friends and family, and important conversations to have with Christians to understand why we believe what we believe concerning our salvation in Jesus and what we believe about Mary and her role in coming to Jesus, according to this

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Roman Catholic priest. So we're going to deal with both videos, both kind of short and very important conversations.

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So let's start with the first one. This is on salvation. Once saved, always saved. No, that's not going to work.

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St. Paul, in his letters to believers, warns them many times not to lose their salvation.

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So it's a short video again, but an important conversation to have. So this

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Roman Catholic priest is making the claim that the Apostle Paul warns

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Christians not to lose their salvation, and he does so many times. This claim is an interesting one because in the video itself, we're not given any examples.

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Where does Paul say this? Which particular texts are you talking about? And what oftentimes takes place as you have conversations with Roman Catholics is that they'll take particular verses in various different contexts, and they'll say, see, you can lose your salvation.

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And as an example, let's go to one that I've heard many times from Roman Catholic friends and others, and this is the

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Apostle Paul in Philippians. Just again, as a springboard, this is something that you'll hear often. In Philippians chapter 2, verse 12, the

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Apostle Paul says, Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence, but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

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For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

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So oftentimes, you've been in a conversation with a Roman Catholic, they'll say, no, you can lose your salvation, because even the

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Apostle Paul says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. But same letter in Philippians at the very beginning of this letter, same letter, the very beginning, before we get to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, it says in chapter 1, verse 3,

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I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you, all making my prayer with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, and I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

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There's Paul's confidence, which sounds very much like the Apostle Paul throughout all of his letters, but particularly in his systematic explanation of the gospel in Romans, that nothing can separate us from the love of God as in Christ Jesus our

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Lord, who will bring any charge against God's elect. It is God who justifies. This is the same

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Apostle Paul who, in Romans chapter 8, gives us this beautiful golden chain of redemption, that he foreknows a people.

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He doesn't just know things about them. He chooses to enter into...it's a verb.

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He chooses to know them, to enter into an intimate relationship with them. He foreknows them. He calls them.

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He justifies them. He glorifies them. There's this chain of redemption that God has where he saves a people, and then he keeps them.

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So, when you have a Roman Catholic priest, again, not giving any examples to shoot at, making the claim that the

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Apostle Paul repeatedly says you can lose your salvation, I would say I deny that outright.

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It violates all of Paul's soteriology, and an example would be good.

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We can't just accept things on your say -so, which is what I would say is a fundamental problem in terms of epistemology and how you know what you know with Rome, and Rome oftentimes has to simply pull rank.

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Well, how do you know? Because the church says so. It's a difference between sola scriptura, that scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith, because it's the very speech of God, the revelation of God, and sola ecclesia, it is because the church says so, and that will always be the fundamental conflict between Rome and the

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Reformed, is how do you know? Where's your certainty? And so, again, I know that he didn't bring up any examples, but there's just one example of a verse that's used as a proof text in this area, and we have to, of course, engage all of the proof texts that they may bring up, but there's a good example,

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I think, of one needing something to shoot at, and two, hopefully, an explanation of sometimes how this goes down in conversation.

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Jesus himself said, there will be people who have called him Lord, Lord, who claim to have done many things in his name, who will be cast out as evildoers.

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So this is also another popular text that's often used when people are trying to make the claim that somebody could be elect, somebody could be saved, and then they can be lost.

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So you could be part of Jesus' flock, you can be his sheep, and then you could be cast out, that you could be lost.

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They'll say this text that Jesus says clearly in Matthew chapter 7, says that many will come to me in that day and say,

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Lord, Lord, did we not do this? Did we not do that? And he'll say, depart from me, I never knew you. And let's go to the text itself.

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In Matthew chapter 7, verse 21, the Lord Jesus says, not everyone who says to me,

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Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

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On that day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name?

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And then will I declare to them, I never knew you.

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Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. What's powerful about that is that here's an example of a claim being made that you can be saved, truly saved by Jesus.

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Yes, there are false converts. Yes, there are false professions of faith. There was no question about that. There are those who claim to know

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Jesus and they don't really trust in him. They don't really know him. They've never been involved with the Spirit of God. They're not regenerate.

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We acknowledge that fully. There are false professors of the faith. Here's an example of that right here before us.

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There are people who say, Lord, Lord, didn't we do this? Didn't we do that? But what's interesting is that this text is being used to say that you can truly be saved.

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You can be part of God's people. You can be Christ's sheep, and then you can be lost or cast out.

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But just read the text. Jesus says, and then will I declare to them, verse 23,

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I never knew you. When Jesus says that he knows his sheep and he gives them eternal life and that his sheep hear his voice, this is where the

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Jewish people who are around him at the time actually say to him, they say, you know, if you're the Messiah, tell us plainly.

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And in John chapter 10, Jesus says, I told you. So they're saying like, if you're the

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Mashiach, tell us that you're the Mashiach. Let us know. Jesus says, I told you. And the reason you can't hear me is because you are not of my sheep.

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My sheep hear my voice and they come. And so Jesus makes a delineation, a distinction between those who are not his sheep, they don't belong to him, and those who do that are part of his flock that he gives eternal life to.

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And in the very same text, it's all in the context of this question, he says that he'll never lose them.

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He'll never forsake them, that they're in his hand. They'll never be lost, that they're in his father's hand, and they'll never be lost.

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That's what the scriptures plainly teach about this question. So in this next video, we deal with some popular claims.

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There's a spectrum, I think, on the issue of Mary within Roman Catholicism, and some people giving her a tremendous amount of weight, and some people saying things as far -fetched as the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary, and that kind of really crazy speculation.

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But with a spectrum on devotion to Mary, some very intense and some moderately intense, it's good to engage in this question about Mary and her role in salvation in relation to the claims of many

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Roman Catholics. So this particular short video, it says an exorcist explains the importance of Mary, and this is with Michael Knowles.

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Why do you guys care so much about Mary? Well, let's say somebody gets to meet you, and they find out you're a great guy, and they like you, and you start hanging out, going to dinner, and they love everything you think and say and do.

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They like your show, your ideals, and then you invite this person home and say,

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I want you to be my mom. This is the person I love most in the world, because she made me, and she's my mom, and everything

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I have, I attribute to her. So it's very important as Christians or Protestants engage in this question of Mary that we do it in a way that is meaningful, that is obviously direct in terms of confronting error about Mary, but also meaningful and acknowledging certain aspects of Mary and her importance and her role in the life of Jesus.

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Yes, Mary is the mother of Jesus, and of course, as the old statement goes, she is the mother of God, which was a statement about Jesus and His nature and His role, and it was not about Mary.

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And so, yes, she has a very important role in the life and ministry of the Lord Jesus.

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However, it is interesting because when you look at the New Testament itself, the ancient apostolic record of the

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Christian church, the inspired revelation of God, you see, of course, Mary's story in the narrative of Jesus, the birth narrative of Jesus.

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Of course, you've got Jesus young at the temple. You have Jesus and His interaction with His mother at His first public miracle, the wedding, and you have

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Jesus in other portions of the ministry of appearing. However, you see

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Mary, the mother of Jesus, disappear from the narrative that's given to us in the

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New Testament. As you get into the book of Acts, you've got Jesus dying on the cross. You've got Jesus rising from the dead and conquering death.

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You've got Jesus ascended, and then Mary just disappears from the story. You don't see this personal devotion towards Mary anywhere in the

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New Testament. It just simply does not exist. What Roman Catholicism has now dogmatized in different Marian dogmas is not something that you see in the

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New Testament. Mary disappears from the New Testament record in terms of having a place at all within the church or the devotion of the church.

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You do not see it. It does not exist. And so, what Roman Catholicism has done is they've exalted

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Mary to this position that just does not exist in inspired Scripture.

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And that's a significant problem, and you're going to see where that problem begins to develop next.

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How could you not want to meet this woman? It's the person you're most, maybe after God the

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Father, would be most in love with. If you think it on those terms, this is the person

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Jesus loved most on the planet. And if you really love him, wouldn't you want to know her? What does that have to do with my salvation in Jesus?

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And so, while the music is sweet and amazing, and there's this beautiful description of the relationship of Jesus to his mother and his love for his mother, which was probably absolutely incredible to even witness and see how the perfect humanity honors father and mother like Jesus did, because there's so much devotion to Mary in Rome, we neglect the other relationship.

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Will Jesus love Mary the most of anybody? Well, let's not forget Joseph, and let's not forget that he had other family members that are identified throughout the

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New Testament. That's another debate we can go into. I would argue that it's very clear, but let's not forget

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Joseph in this conversation. But again, this is what needs to... we need to cut through the beautiful music and the emotional pull of the mother and son relationship and ask the question, okay, great,

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Jesus loved Mary. He had a very special relationship to Mary. She's a godly, amazing

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Christian woman, but what does that have to do with my salvation and my knowing

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Jesus? Let's go. She's not God, but he's given her great authority and power.

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Says who? Let that hang for a second. Here's a

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Roman Catholic priest saying she's not God, but she's been given great authority and power.

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Listen, to do what? And the ability to distribute grace through her hands.

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Great authority and power and the ability to distribute grace through her hands, to which everybody who wants to honor

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God, to glorify God, and to love the truth should say to this gentleman, says who?

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Who says that? Where in Scripture do you see any of this? And the answer is nowhere. It doesn't exist in the

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Bible. It is something that exists as a man -made tradition that has risen up over time.

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It is doctrinal development over time that is not based upon what we find in Scripture.

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It is something that developed over time as devotion to Mary and claims about Mary that do not exist through inspiration of Holy Scripture.

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It is because Rome says so, and so he makes the claim freely, but that claim can't be demonstrated or buttressed with any

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New Testament support. It's simply because of Marian dogma and devotion to Mary that Rome claims.

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Because of his love for her, and the only thing she does is lead people back to him.

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If they came to know that, they would be running to her. Today? That's the claim that's made.

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The only thing she does is lead people back to Jesus. Today Mary is doing this? How do you know this?

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Where does it say this in Scripture? Where does it say that Mary's role is to lead people to Jesus? Because actually

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Jesus taught in John chapters 14 through 16 that it is the Holy Spirit of God.

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It is God himself, the Holy Spirit of God, who leads people to Jesus.

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And so the claim is being made there that Mary is today. Mary is today.

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She is though she died, and she is in God's presence, that she is leading people to Jesus today, which

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Scripture is really abundantly clear that that is the role of the Holy Spirit of God to do such things.

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Because the fastest way to get close to Jesus is to go through his mother. This is an incredibly audacious claim.

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The fastest way to get to Jesus is to go through his mother.

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Now this kind of claim with this kind of beautiful music and all the rest in a Catholic context might go unchallenged, but we have to ask this question if we care about truth and what

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God says through inspiration, not what a Catholic priest says in the 21st century.

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We need to ask the question, how do you know that? Who says? What standard are you using to make that claim?

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Because Scripture seems to be abundantly clear about how we come to God and have a relationship with God.

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In 1 Timothy 2 .5, it says there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man

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Christ Jesus. So if you want to get to the Father, you go through Jesus.

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And the call you see in the Gospels is Jesus calling people to come to him, not to his mother.

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He's calling people to come to him. He claims that he is the door. He claims that he is the way, the truth, and the life, and that no man comes to the

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Father but through him. And the call of the Gospel was to come unto me. That's what Jesus says, not come unto his mother or anybody else.

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If you want a reconciled relationship of peace with God the Father, you come through Jesus. And what

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Rome will do with the Marian dogmas and with devotion to Mary is they actually now put another person in the way that to get to God the

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Father, you have to go through Jesus. But first, you have to also go through his mother. Go through his mother to get to Jesus. It's the quickest and best way to get to Jesus to go through his mother.

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By the New Testament, it's clear. You come through Jesus, one God, one mediator between God and men, the man

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Christ Jesus. That's what Scripture teaches. But here we have a Roman Catholic priest making the claim that if you want to get to Jesus, you have to go quickly through his mother.

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This is the way he came to meet us, through her. And so he wants us to go through her to meet him, similarly going back.

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And so, again, quick videos, clips to go through. More could be said, but I think it would be very important for all of us to engage with this kind of thinking, because the

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Scriptures are abundantly clear about how a person is justified, how we have peace with God through faith in Jesus, apart from works of law.

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It is to the glory of God. God keeps us. All of that is there. But it's also very clear in Scripture how a person has peace with God and gets to the

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Father. It is through the Son. He is the mediator. He is the one who intercedes for us.

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He is the one we go to. He's the one that calls us to come to him for life and for peace and salvation.

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And so this devotion to Mary is ultimately a distraction. I would say a very destructive distraction that turns us away from Jesus to somebody else who ultimately cannot save us, cannot bring us closer to Jesus.

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Mary is a woman who is redeemed by God, who was also drawn by the

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Father, who loves her son, but she is in the presence of God, worshiping God right now.

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And she is not actively involved right now, today, in drawing people to Jesus.

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That is the role of the Spirit of God. And this devotion to Mary is ultimately something that is destructive to anybody's life, because Mary is not hearing your prayers.

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Mary is not mediating for any of us. Mary is not a co -redemptrix with Christ. Mary is the mother of God.

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And again, that says something about Jesus, not Mary, ultimately. And Jesus is the

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God -man. Mary was an amazing, godly, Christian woman chosen by God, favored by God.

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But Mary will not bring us closer to Jesus. Her course has been run.

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She is delighting in God in ways we cannot even imagine right now. But if we want to have peace with God, we go through the

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Son. He is the way. He is the truth. He is the life. He is the mediator that brings us to the

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Father. He is the one who intercedes for us. He is the one who had a perfect once -for -all sacrifice. And He is the one that we are invited to come to.

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Jesus says in John 5, 24, Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my voice and believes

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Him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but is passed out of death and into life.

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That is the glory of the gospel. Hey, what's up, guys? This is Pastor Jeff Durbin. Thank you for watching

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