The Way the Wind’s Blowing

Conversations That Matter

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Hey everyone, welcome to conversations that matter cell phone travel edition I'm actually flying home today, but I've been traveling for the last few days for those who don't know

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I Was in Arizona at First Baptist Church of Williams and had a wonderful time

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There and and stayed with the pastor's family and they're just wonderful people It's just a great if you're looking for a place to move to I know a lot of people are moving around Williams, Arizona It has many perks to it

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And then also I spoke at Grace Bible Church in San Diego a

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Reformed Baptist Church And that was a great time as well and just wonderful people I'm just so encouraged and I want to share more about that with you in the coming weeks but just how

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God is raising up people and oftentimes we don't see them in the limelight because they don't reach the same levels of platforming and institutional power as Those who are usually afforded those positions through relationships, but they are still out there and they're still doing a great work

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And God has not left himself without a witness. So very encouraged by that both my wife and I the main reason though that I've been traveling is my grandfather's funeral was on Saturday and Because we live so far away

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It's been visiting with family for four days and going through my grandpa's old stuff and I mean the house is that he lived in is going to be sold.

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So that's been a whole ordeal with just going through every item that he's owned and whether or not questioning whether or not different items might have a sentimental value for different members of the family and so I Have my grandfather's old watch.

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I'm not even sure if it works, but we'll find out and Just a few things some my wife got some of his old records

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He really loved a lot of jazz standards big band music and and then some some some classic pop stuff

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I think that's mostly what she got and so anyway that that's been kind of emotional but also very good we scattered his ashes actually yesterday and so That's what

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I've been up to lately so I haven't been able to get to a lot of the questions and some some objections that I've received and I want to though because On I think it was last

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Thursday. I was Doing some work on on the house because we're gonna sell my grandfather's house

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So we were making it look nice painting some things and so I had a little bit of time to listen to some stuff and I Thought well, what what should

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I listen to? And so I want to address something because I've had probably about 15 or so people message me or Or they've just left comments, but it might even be more than that about this whole issue with David Rubin and whether or not

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Talk show hosts on the blaze and the daily wire congratulated him for having surrogate children with his quote -unquote husband, so I talked about that and I mentioned it in a podcast.

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I want to say about a week ago or so Maybe a week and a half ago, and I think I made an offhanded comment something about every host at the daily wire

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Congratulating him according to David Rubin and then I released another podcast a few days ago and I Just played

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David Rubin's clip where he talks about how every host of the daily wire Congratulated him and how the blaze family was supportive of him and all of that and And I was concerned maybe

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I didn't make the necessary qualifications So first I listened to my podcast because a lot of people were pushing back saying hold on you know, there there's a lot of people at the both the blaze and the daily wire who have said that they disagree with David Rubin and and his choice in having these surrogate children and And the relationship in which he's calling a family that he's bringing them up in and and this is wrong and and so I Was worried.

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I thought at first maybe I said something off So I listened to the podcast and I just want to let everyone know if you listen to what

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I said carefully I I did I think make the necessary qualifications. I said in David Rubin's mind

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I said look in David Rubin's mind all the hosts at the daily wire are supportive of him The blaze is supportive of him

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And then at the end, I also mentioned I hadn't listened to these podcasts at the time

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But I said look I don't think Steve Dace or Matt Walsh I think those are the two I mentioned would be Supportive of David Rubin and Matt Walsh is at the daily wire.

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Steve Dace is at the blaze These are both conservative talk show hosts. I said I it would surprise me if they were supportive of this.

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So You know for whatever that's worth. I haven't listened to their podcast But you know that you know, they've maybe

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I opened the door for maybe David Rubin's exaggerating this a little bit And so I want to give you first a sequencing

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Issue and all this that might help make sense of why I said what I did and and then

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I'm gonna get into Responding actually to I listen to Ali Stuckey to Steve Dace and to Matt Walsh on this topic and I just want to give you my general thoughts because I think

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Actually there this is very significant and any downplaying of this moment Where you have

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Prager you the blaze their official Twitter accounts Megan McCain Megan Kelly I think there was a an anchor at OAN, you know coming out and Congratulating publicly

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David Rubin on his children through surrogate moms that he's having that that This is a this is a moment that I'll remember for a long time

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And any downplaying of this like it's not a big deal I think is mistaken and I think that the responses have really solidified that more even from those who are

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Disagreeing with this like Steve Dace like Matt Walsh their responses reveal something and so I want to Just address that real quick.

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So number one Sequencing here the sequencing here is I think it now must have been about a month ago

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Almost that Dave Rubin came out publicly and said, you know, well, he didn't even say he just posted a picture of two babies

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From I'm assuming different surrogate mothers and and it's him and his

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Alleged husband, I don't I know if I'm not even sure what the nature of that relationship is there but From other talk show hosts that I've now listened to they referred to this other individual as Dave Rubin's husband

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So I'm not you know an expert on Dave Rubin. I don't listen to Dave Rubin. Really. I'm not sure about all that All I know is that He is he was proud of look.

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Here's two children that He and his partner or his husband are

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Are going to bring into their quote -unquote family there and and this of course is not a traditional family.

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This is Or a biblical family or anything like that. This is a homosexual couple having two children basically paying two women to Give them their

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DNA and because you need I mean in this whole process, right you have to have some

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DNA from the egg, so they Those are their mothers, but then and I'm assuming it's the same women probably

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I don't know but you have these surrogate mothers Bringing these children into the world and then once they're brought into the world

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It'll be David Rubin and his husband claiming to be I guess the husbands or the husband and wife or what?

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I don't know how they have it arranged, but that's what the children will know And so there's a lot of ways to approach this as a conservative you could go to stats about Children who grow up with moms and dads being more successful.

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You could Talk about marriage being the building block of society and how this undermines the traditional roles and what marriage is supposed to be and it really annihilates the very definition of marriage you could talk about surrogacy and how surrogacy has

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Created some some are calling this Like you're just buying humans like it's a modern slave trade almost like the way, you know

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Where are we going with this and kind of a slippery slope of where does this end up going where we're gonna have a slave?

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class that just Carries children for the people who don't want that and and the rich people don't want to have children

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So there's a lot of different angles that by which I've seen Different people not mainstream people as much but people commenting trying to approach this

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Mostly Conservatives who don't have much of a platform, but um, I I think for me the big thing that stands out to me in all this is

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It's the way the winds blowing. Okay, it's the way that the cultural waters are flowing It's it's the fact that now if you

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Deviate from that if you don't think that that's a good arrangement if you think that's a bad arrangement to normalize

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You are on the deep defense, even if you're conservative. That's the significant thing to me in all this

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You're on the defense if you endorse this kind of behavior and think it's it should be normalized and it's perfectly acceptable you are

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You are acceptable and this is on the conservative side. I'm talking about political conservatives. You don't have you're not on the defense

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You're you're perfectly within your the the boundaries of even modern conservatism this is totally fine and This is a position that I pointed out

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I think in the video that I did last week that even ten years ago the progressive left would have been

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That would have been a controversial thing for someone on the progressive left Like even like if Obama had come out and endorsed this kind of thing, that would be kind of controversial

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But now you're seeing within a decade 15 years to a decade you see conservative political conservatives are now endorsing this kind of thing and though the people who are

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On the other side who are saying that this is wrong are kind of more outlying voices and they're defensive voices so so sequence wise you had

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Matt or David Rubin make this announcement, right? Then I think maybe it was a week later

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So I made this offhanded comment on one of my podcasts about that the Daily Wire folks congratulating him

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I had even a good friend of mine actually and and and I totally understand why you know, John You know, you want to make sure you don't paint with a broad brush here

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You don't want to you don't want to slander people there's there's people like Matt Walsh who are against this which

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I totally get and Then and then I released the video last week and and so more people are responding saying

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John Hey, hold on You got to make sure that you're not painting with a broad brush here And and I think

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I did make the necessary qualifications in the video last week. I never said anything. That wasn't true It was very

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I you know Careful but it definitely left people with the impression that I was very open to the idea that all of the

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Daily Wire hosts had Endorsed this kind of behavior because I was open to it I didn't know and I was just going off of what

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David Rubin had said So I'm happy to report to you that that's not that's not exactly true. And here are the possibilities number one

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Dave Rubin He released that video before some of the responses came out from Matt Walsh and others

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So in his mind at the time it was all the hosts at the Daily Wire another possibility is

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He received messages from hosts at the Daily Wire who Publicly might even be against it, but then sent him whatever they could privately to congratulate him.

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I don't know. That's a possibility I suppose though And then of course the other possibilities Dave Rubin's just exaggerating and he's he's ignoring the pushback that he's received

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So he never said that every host at the blaze He just said the blaze family which certainly does I can see why people would think that he's saying every host at the blaze which

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Ali Beth Stuckey I believe she's at the blaze and she disagrees with this by the way I think she had one of the best videos against this and and so I'm gonna talk about that in a minute.

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So So anyway, that's that's some of the sequencing stuff now for me

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I I am on I'm traveling I've been traveling about 10 days. I recorded a bunch of podcasts before I left and That particular podcast from last week that people are asking about Where I mentioned this stuff that was recorded now almost two weeks ago

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And so and that's part of the deal, right if I'm gonna travel and I want to release podcasts

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I mean, I don't really have much of a choice. I have to record stuff Especially when I'm really busy ahead of time

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I don't normally do it that far ahead but because I knew I was gonna be gone for a while I did and so So since it's possible even since then some of these pod

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There's been a little bit more pushback. So just want to let you know all about that Now the content this is what's significant to me and this is what

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I want to talk about I Listened to Ali Stuckey. I listened to Matt Walsh and I listened to Steve Dace while I was

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I was painting my Krampus house And here's the the main thing that stuck out to me number one

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Defensive all three of them were on the defense and I thought why is that? This should be especially for a conservative especially for Christian conservatives, right?

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This shouldn't be something you're very defensive on this is you know, this is just basic Orthodox Christian teaching that I mean

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Jesus even said he made them male and female. There's a difference between the two There's different roles and responsibilities attached with being male and female and they're rooted in creation.

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They're not rooted. They're not arbitrary They're not just because God Decided that oh,

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I'm just gonna make men do this and women do this men have to take responsibility to protect and provide

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And women have to nurture know that stuff is rooted in creation. That's recognized universally until about two seconds ago and so It doesn't mean that You know that there shouldn't be fair wages for women.

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It doesn't mean that women Can't take on certain roles that I mean you look at the

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Proverbs 31 woman. She's she takes on some very managerial roles But it does mean that there are created differences between men and women that make them unique different and they complement one another because of that This is just this is no duh.

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This is basic Christian teaching This should be basic conservative thought which is why I read the excerpt from Edmund Burke I did last night.

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I'm like, this is the founder of modern conservatism according to some and Look, he's showing in his own mind that look family is the building block and his conception of a family.

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Is that traditional? Nuclear family he believes that that is the social arrangement.

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That Is fundamental to actually creating a fair just well -functioning society so So we've already talked about this

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Why though should any conservative feel ashamed or not even the shame is not even the word necessarily but maybe some or feel like they have to hide feel like they

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Have to be delayed in their response feel like they have to cushion their response

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When they disagree with that kind of behavior, why would that be? That's what doesn't make any sense to me

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Why in the world would a conservative have to cushion any of that just be direct about it say this is wrong

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This is against the created order Normalizing this is unhealthy for society It's not good for the kids in the relationship.

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It confuses them it creates I mean you could open up a lot of the stats about suicides and all kinds of things you could talk about How successful one is in school and in life in general and whether or not this contributes to that You you know you could talk about whether or not this is what was

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God's intention to have Homosexual couples then have pay for surrogate mothers to carry children of which these children actually have a mother and it's the mother who's carrying them and whether or not that's

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It's acceptable then to then tell that child for their lifetime that actually their parents are these two men or two women

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Or however, that works and in this case, obviously two men paying surrogate mothers So two men so, you know that shouldn't you that the thing is that's the anomaly.

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That's the strange thing. That's the experiment That's what's that's what's new right? That's the innovation but we're kind of in this defensive posture and we

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I mean political conservatives of thinking like oh, that's That's actually commonplace. That's normal.

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That's that's what that's what people do and it's acceptable and in To deviate from this and share a different opinion on it, then

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I have to then really cushion it I have to qualify everything very strongly because I'm afraid that I might get pushback and that's what

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I'm that's what I'm keying into Why be afraid that you're gonna get pushback? Why? Why is that that indicates something what that indicates is that things are changing even on the ground?

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They're changing and I'm not trying to say the skies falling and this is the end of everything

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We believe in just because of this one thing. I'm just saying it's a significant barometer. That's all

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I'm saying It's very significant to know how political conservatism is changing. So their posture is a big thing to me their posture

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Romans 1 we're going down the Romans 1 slide in our society and those who object have to be

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Super careful with how they object because if they just come out and say this is evil This is against God's design or it's toy bah, right?

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It's abomination according the Old Testament or whatever. Then they're they're the ones that you know, they're in trouble

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So they have to be awfully careful with how they approach it So that's the first thing and I found in all three of these videos.

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There was a lot of defense Now, I think like I said Ali Stuckey. I'm very grateful for I think Ali Stuckey did the best job with responding to this

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She walked people down the garden road. She showed them. Here's what the Bible teaches about all these things

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Here's here's how God created things. She rooted it in creative design She did a very good job on all this as far as explaining to people why she could not but the very fact this is my whole point the very fact that she

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Had to do that that that was kind of a necessary thing that To to that wasn't just an obvious There wasn't obvious condemnation or an obvious.

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Oh, yeah, we don't agree with that. It had to be very particularly Explained which

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I do a lot on this podcast. I'm not against that. I think she did a great job I'm thankful for her but I'm just saying that indicates something because she's got one of the most conservative audiences you would think and Yet she even had to like very qualify it, you know, talk about how

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David I think she said David Rubin would make a good dad And and just really soften it as much as she possibly could not use some of the harsh words

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Sometimes that scripture uses but but really get into the mechanics of why this would be bad

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Which I think was a great thing for her to do But it just indicates kind of where we're at the fact that she had to approach it that way

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Now as far as Steve Dace and Matt Walsh I'm not as positive about their responses to this because I really thought

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I was gonna hear some big pushback We'll start with Matt Walsh Matt Walsh's Response to this whole issue was first and I love

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Matt Walsh. I love Steve Dace, by the way I just got to tell you I'm grateful that they said something. All right, so this isn't meant to be this big critique of them

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I'm just think they could have been more it could have been better. Okay, so think about Matt Walsh Matt Walsh In his segment, he talks about this whole issue.

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I guess it's Leah Thomas. I think was the name I don't know what the male name was there, but that I keep hearing

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Leah Thomas, you know won the Won the swimming thing and and so the the championship and and so He did a whole segment on that of how this is terrible and this is the end of sports, you know girls sports

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This is significant. Literally the very next segment after a commercial break is him answering a question about about this situation that we're talking about and and so as he he gets into it his his most of his

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Energy is spent on the trolls and the critics of him and the people that wanted him to respond and to Dave Rubin and that situation and How he doesn't have to respond and how and it's it was just very strange to me

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It's not it was it seemed like there was tension almost in my mind I'm like you just had this whole segment on Leah Thomas and now you get to Dave Rubin It's kind of the same issue.

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He may have even said it's the same issue. They were Steve Dace did I think? but now it's it's like it's

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It was just so different. He disagreed with it, which was good but it was he was more frustrated with the people who wanted him to comment on it and I guess they were kind of attacking him for not commenting on it, which you know, maybe that was all wrong

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I haven't seen that but he's more frustrated with that than he was the actual situation with Dave Rubin and the normalization of this kind of thing and And so, you know,

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I don't I don't know a hundred percent what to make of all that But I thought it was just it was unusual to me like this is a big moment to have conservative organizations endorsing that kind of behavior and He just didn't seem to think it was as big of a deal

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He in fact he said with the Leah Thomas stuff. He says we're winning this we're winning. We're winning the gender stuff all of that We're starting to win this not declaring victory yet But the tide is turning and then he and then it's like the very evidence of conservative organizations

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Endorsing Dave Rubin showed the tides not turning the tides not turning in the same way Yeah, maybe some parents are upset like this has gone too far but but on a political level

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But then when you think about the infiltration of conservatives and how they're normalizing that kind of behavior

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When it's one of their own when it's Dave Rubin, well that shows actually no I don't so there was a lot of tension just you know

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The tides turning and then all of a sudden being very defensive of you know People that wanted him to comment

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On on the Dave Rubin situation when he didn't feel the need to or didn't think it was maybe as big of a deal as They were making it out to be it's a pretty big deal

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And so I think Matt Walsh and I would totally agree. I think we'd have the same position on this I think you know, he thinks it's wrong.

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I think it's wrong. I think it's more the sense of proportion That that's being given to this that where we might differ if there's a difference there

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This is a big thing in my mind, and I don't know if it's as big in his mind now It's Steve Dace That one was in my mind awkward as well.

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Steve Dace Talked about the parable of or not the parable But the story of the adulterous woman who's brought before Jesus and basically puts himself in the position of Jesus the conservatives are the

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Pharisees and I Guess I don't know who the adulterous woman is. I guess Dave Rubin and so he basically says that The conservatives are being hypocritical because they in the story of the adulterous woman

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They bring this woman, but there's no man present. So they don't they're not following. They're not being consistent because there's no man present

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They're not actually following the Mosaic law But they want Jesus to follow the Mosaic law and they try to entrap him

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See if he will or he won't and so what basically Steve Dace says is that? Well, all these conservatives really upset about Dave Rubin are and it's not platformed

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Conservatives with institutional power. It's conservatives, you know like you and me All those conservatives that are upset about that.

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Well, where were they when Trump was running, you know They really wanted Trump to win and let me point out something to you right now

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This is this is not a fair comparison. And the reason is no conservative organization I know of with any mainstream influence said, you know what?

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We're gonna congratulate. Let's go out there and congratulate Donald Trump's adultery Let's go out there and congratulate

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Donald Trump's sexual escapades Let's let's normalize them and mainstream them and and say that never happened

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But yet you do have conservative organizations and personalities going out there and congratulating

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Dave Rubin and And rejoicing and what Dave Rubin's doing they people didn't rejoice in Donald Trump's adultery.

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They looked at that as a negative They had to overcome in order to try to get him to win That's a completely different scenario.

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And so Steve Dace conflates that and I don't know why he does that but That was most of his energy

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It was bashing conservatives who would have a problem with Dave Rubin because they're hypocrites.

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Maybe there are hypocrites I'm not saying there's not but that's To not see the significance of this moment

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And he talks about how the blaze, you know that anyone can say what they want at the blaze and yeah But your organization just went publicly and congratulated

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Dave Rubin for this So, you know at least maybe some pushback with like not just we don't like we don't agree with the blaze and what they did

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Was wrong, you know, it's hard. It's awkward when that's the company you work for I get that but this is so fundamental

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So fundamental. I mean, I can't think you know, like So, I don't know.

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I don't have words for it. It's so fundamental Like if I don't know what a conservative is if you're not if you don't believe in the traditional family if you think that you know men can be it's fine if men act like women women act like men children are brought up with People they pay for surrogacy and and then that those mothers aren't their mothers

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But they're told that this this artificial Arrangement is is actually real and you like I don't even know what conservative is if that's permissible in a conservative

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Mindset that just doesn't that doesn't jive, right? so for For Matt Walsh and for Steve days to kind of I don't know.

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They just not see how Monumental this situation is how significant it is that you have organizations including the one

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Steve days works for Endorsing that kind of thing that that's what I don't quite understand And it may have been honestly and I'm willing to say this because I've been 2016 especially

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I was like, let's not let Trump get the he cannot get the The nomination

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I was really against that and part of it was his moral stuff And and I think that was you know

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One of the things that I think has led and it's not the only thing and it's certainly not maybe even the most significant

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Thing but it was a barometer showing where conservatives were going with sexual morality and the family and all of that to let a guy

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Like that to think to really want that guy and I think it's in to get it more indicative of something else

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It's more indicative of how weak the rest of the party is that there wasn't someone who was seen as strong So that's why

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Trump was elected probably more than anything He was seen as strong that he would actually he wouldn't go along to get along.

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He would push back but yeah, he is no one's defending some of his personal morality and so yeah, you could say that that was a compromise but the thing is that This in my mind is is just as significant

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In some ways more significant in some ways not in every way But in some ways when you have conservative organizations that are taking money from conservatives that are representing

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Conservatives like the blaze like people like Candace Owens it at the Daily Wire You know like Megan Kelly when you have

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Prager you coming out and endorsing Dave Rubin's Scenario as a positive.

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That's a big deal. That's that's that's wait, you know that that's past Stuff that Donald Trump's done as bad as that's been this is you know

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No one was trying to normalize what Donald Trump did they knew it was bad. This is now being normalized That's my whole point and that is a huge paradigm shift.

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So that's what I have to say about that There's a lot of other things. I want to talk about things. I've had thoughts on over the last few days

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I'm gonna do an episode actually one of the things I'll just give you a preview on how to What the cons what considerations we should have how we should approach examining people

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And and like John MacArthur even like like people that many of us in this audience like but how do we approach?

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Because I've done this all the time I've I've had some my own criticism for Al Mohler and Tim Keller and others and how do

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I approach that? How what's the best way the respectful way the most biblical way to approach those things and and not fall into?

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Unnecessarily Worshipping someone almost putting them on such a pedestal that you but scribe to them in Non -communicable attributes of God but at the same time respect them because some people are deserving of Respect and they've shown that and you want to give the benefit of the doubt when there's an accusation against them

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So, how do you verify things? How do you and then if you have you do see that there's a problem How do you approach that?

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So I'm gonna do a podcast on that I hope that'll be helpful for you all But that's gonna come later in the week because I got to catch a flight right now

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So I appreciate again all your prayers I'm just so had the gospel was presented at the funeral that I was at which