How to Seek God's Will

Seeking God's Will Without Mysticism

Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight tonight. We're gonna be talking about Seeking God's will. We want to make sure that we are staying on the biblical track and not veering off into What some would call? Mysticism.

Stick with us. We hope you will enjoy the show.

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome. Welcome to the laborers podcast. Let's let you know. The comment line is open if you're there if you're watching. We would love to hear from you say hello ask a question if we can pray for you.

Let us know that would be fantastic. Give us a critique if you would like. Tonight we were bringing being joined. There's six of us tonight. We're so we're thrilled about that. We've got Claude with the here I stand theology podcast.

John with real talk with big John J the reform recon. I Say that. I say that.

How do I need to pronounce that. J you're good. Just say Puerto Rican and then just replace Puerto with reformed. You know, I'll say this real quick before you keep introducing late. Flowers tried to pronounce it killed it.

They did not do well, so you didn't do worse than him. Well.

That's a that word has a different meaning from where we're from and that's what we were talking about before Before we came on the show. So it's it's. Sounds weird for me to say that but J the reformer recon and check out his podcast.

We've got a new face with us tonight Tony Thomas the standard beard care man. And he is soon if I'm not mistaken, he is soon to be starting his own podcast. Covenant leadership. And I want to give him a shout out.

I think we showed. We showed the little ad video that he did for Claude about two weeks ago. But I also want to brag because he sent me Something very special and you can see it right behind me. His son made this for the labors podcast.

Check that out. Sweet. Yes. It's very nice and in the middle section there I don't know how well you can see it, but there's lights in there and it lights up and it looks great. So we're very I'm very proud of that very thankful for it.

Um and Tyler Bread of the word podcast and you're not gonna get to Upload one due to hacking this week, right? Yes.

You at least get it recorded. No. Oh, no. I was booting up my laptop to record and poof viruses. So I Was out of commission today. So I will be up and running this this week. I'm gonna be out of the house the next two days, but I should be good to record.

Starting next week and just just get it out there wrapping up song of Solomon next week. After which will be the book of Job. I'm very excited for.

Well, since there's six of us I appreciate all your patience as everybody has a chance to answer the questions tonight. Um. Here we go. We got our first comment from my brother Matt. Happy birthday to the happy Calvinist.

Thank you, brother. Love you, man.

That is all over the place. I had a contest for free deodorant that was coming out and he was one of the winners.

Yeah, he's a good dude. Dude.

Absolutely agree so let's um Let's jump right in and again. I thank you guys for your patience. Everybody has a chance to answer. So tonight we're gonna talk about How to seek God's will and as I mentioned before some people call it getting into mysticism because We want us we want to get away from.

From just seeking scripture and what scripture has to say and following its directions and And falling over into what some people will call mysticism. I don't know I don't know scriptures just too boring and we We want to you know, be awed and see signs and wonders.

I'm not sure and I'm not sure how you guys feel about this subject. So I'm interested to see how it goes. But we want to stay on the biblical track of seeking God's will personally and then As a local church.

Because it depends on which setting that you're in some folks are in a setting where you may be more elder led and The congregation makes less decisions, but the pastors that let the elders they need to know how to make decisions and seek God's will but then if you're in a more congregational style and the congregation gets to Chime in and help make decisions and you are seeking corporately what God wants for the church.

How do we help our congregation from? Slipping over into Mysticism. I'm just for lack of a better term mysticism and seeking things that they should see how to help them stay difficult seeking God's will so Let's start at the top.

Start at the top should we pray for or seek signs to show us direction.

Wisdom, Signs, and the Sufficiency of Scripture

So I would like to begin by sharing scripture 18 The vert and verse 17 the one who states this case first seems right until the other comes and examines him so. With that I'm deferring my turn Man.

Well, I mean, I'm inclined to think this is almost a trick question because We're to be a people who pray all the time for starters. And when I said when you say seek signs, I'm curious as to what are you talking about exactly?

Okay, so and this is gonna be good because you're coming from a little different background. We're gonna maybe speak a little bit different language in this area. And so I guess where I'm coming from when I say should we pray or seek for signs?

So I'm I'm driving down the road and I'm praying Lord, what color do you want my cut next car to be? I'm looking about a car. What color car do you want me to have. And then you drive by this billboard and there's this big red sign.

Oh, and it's just bright as it could be. And then the next song on the radio is Little red, what's princess song? Is it is it red beret or red Corvette? You're like boom that must be God speaking to me because there's a red sign and there's there's the song on the radio little red Corvette.

So he must want me to buy red car. So should we should we be praying for seeking these signs from God to help us make decisions?

Not not like not from stars. Not like that. I mean that I don't know if that was. That we'll use the example because that's what you've given and I assume I'm only assume that's what you mean by start with I think things like What color of a car you drive to some degree silly, right?

Yeah, I think I think part of the problem. Yeah, and I don't I'll stop after this or somebody else can answer but I'm gonna say the short answer. No. Right, we shouldn't we shouldn't be praying that way because that's not even in line with Scripture.

When we're praying we're to be praying for God's will to be accomplished, right? We've been told how to pray. Christ tells us how to pray and there's no reason to deviate from that. So I think that that's.

That might be a uniquely American problem because we're so narcissistic in our approach to the Bible that when we read it we think about how this applies to me as opposed to what's it says about Jesus in the first place, so.

Short answer no. And I would honestly add on to that from What Jesus told Thomas? You see you believe because you have seen but blessed are those who believe and haven't seen that our faith in God is not necessarily tied to the big neon signs to the external public indicators, but it's who God is.

And what we're told in James if any of you lacks wisdom to ask God not for signs but as for wisdom for discernment yeah, I think it's easy when we get when we start thinking about signs and confirmation to Honestly focus on the wrong thing to focus on getting the the outward indication to validate what we May or may not be feeling led to do as opposed to seeing the will of God maybe as more of something we abide in.

Something that flows out of our relation with God that everything we do Is tied to God granting his wisdom to where I don't need to See a big neon sign over my head to say I need to bring this person in my home.

But this is this is a good thing. This is what God has told us to do in his word. Let's walk in it.

Right, I think it was important what you just said there at the end. God has told us what he's done in his word. He's given us his revealed word. So what was the you know in this this might play into a future question here?

But you know, what what was the brains sign that they know that Paul was speaking truth. Because God had already revealed his word. They examined the scriptures. So God has already revealed, you know, his will for us.

He's given a certain it gives given us as law. He's given us his precepts. And you know as the 1689 would prescribe he will work through his his his will in secondary means so. Yeah, again, that'll play into some some questions here later on so I don't want to go too far.

But I would say he's already given us his revealed word. Not that the miraculous can't happen that these far from the miraculous or being able to make the miraculous happen. But I'd say we know what his revealed will is for us.

Yeah, yeah. And and just to just to speak on that just a second. What what we're what we're talking about right now what we're looking for is is how how to make that decision. And so we can we can look back and we can maybe see those things.

And and John you were right. That was that was a silly example but it's. It's sad how sometimes in those serious decision-making times. Yeah, that's how people often and it probably comes from anxiety.

I need an answer. So I'm looking and I'm looking for all these Coincidental things happening and then attribute it to God speaking to me. No, I would say that there's that I.

Do believe that there's confirmation of things and I can give examples to that. There have been more than one time That in my own personal walk with Christ in prayer and study. I recall a Period not long after I was converted that I was studying through Joshua and I was studying through Joshua and I had bought a book kind of like to help to help with the study of Joshua and There was a there was a portion that I was I was hung up on and I kept reading it and I kept reading it and I was like man, I really wish I could get a better understanding of this and then I go to church Sunday and The pastor says and something to the effect of it's not a direct quote.

He said really been troubled in my spirit about something that I've been reading and then he answered the question that I had asked but it wasn't The colors in the rainbow or colors on the sign it wasn't flowers blooming.

It was legit, you know I've been studying this portion of Scripture and I hope this helps somebody out and I was like help me out. Didn't help nobody else out. So I believe in that kind of confirmation.

I believe that God still uses his word and he answers prayers to his word. I believe God still speaks to his word to people and we have ears to hear. It's all wrote down. I mean it ain't like he's trying to hide it.

I mean, that's right but it's revealed by his Holy Spirit and So I believe in this type of confirmation. I don't know if that's what you mean when you say Duke. Should we be seeking a sign? I know the next one says do we use things to provide?

Confirmation, I might skip the head Robert. I'm sorry. Well, well, no, I I think you're keeping us in line there. I totally I'm totally on board with you with that. God gives confirmation. I'm totally on board with what Tom Tony was telling us about God's able to perform miracles and do as he pleases.

Um the trouble comes on our end of it and and giving credit to God where. We don't have that ability, you know, unless it's from his word, you know, just like we're talking about John and so we're giving credit to God when.

Maybe when we when it's over and done with and we can look back and we can see where God was moving. But we're just not in that position to be able to do that and I think that's. You're keeping us in line by telling us, you know, stay with scripture.

Stay with scripture.

I Think there's one thing that we have to keep in mind. So gentlemen, hopefully all of you know the answer to this. I really hope you do. What is the chief end of man? Glorify God enjoy him forever. There it is to glorify God and do him forever, right?

So I'm thinking about this question kind of like, you know in everyday things that we're trying to decide whether it's you know. Let's say you get two job offers, right? You you got two jobs. They both seem good.

Well, what's the question that we need to ask, you know, how can I most glorify God. With each of these jobs and some people might be tempted to oh This one has more benefits or this one has this or this one has that.

But I think the first objective Is to say how can I glorify God through this now in the in the in terms of a job, right? Like when we're looking for a job, hopefully what you're thinking about is how can I provide for my family, right?

That's what we're called to do. This is why we got to turn back to the scriptures. Hmm, but once you think about that, right. And you pray for wisdom and you pray for guidance, right and and God will give you through that like like John was kind of saying you know Pastors will say something a friend Will guide you.

You got to surround yourself with people who who you know are in tune with God and his word. Because you don't know everything. Right, and so God uses ordinary means To to to guide us right? It's kind of like Proverbs 16 9, right?

The man plants, but the Lord establishes his steps. Right. I think we can't be so scared of making the wrong decision. I'm not saying that we shouldn't think about this carefully we should. But at the same time we know that God is sovereign, right and so Using my example of like, you know, which which job should I use or should I take?

Well, okay. Is it is one of them say for example a bouncer of a strip club? Probably not that one. But but you know if both seem like hey they might be good jobs. They might be something where I can glorify God in.

And I can provide for my family. Then I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, you know, what? I will choose the one that I think I'll enjoy more, you know I I think that sometimes we put so much emphasis on.

You know Lord, I need you to answer me right and I'm not saying that every decision is easy it's not. But we have to be careful not to make this overemphasis on God. I need you to speak to me right now and I need you know, like he has given his word We know what's right.

We know what's wrong. And so We pray for wisdom. We pray for guidance. We use the ordinary means that God has given us. And we go from there trusting in him that no matter what decision we make ultimately he is sovereign and it's all gonna work out so.

I think you definitely were Echoing what Matt was saying here. Scripture may not give us a direct answer about specific questions situations. But we need to look to the principles outlined in Scripture and apply those many situations there.

Yeah, there may be multiple answers that are perfectly acceptable. And I think that's exactly what you were echoing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and and we touched on the second question does God use things to provide confirmation and.

And yes, I think we answered in the affirmative there, but it's it's within scriptural guidelines. As as John was talking to us about as Jay was telling us about having friends having confidants. Brothers and sisters in Christ that are that are praying themselves that are in God's Word themselves.

They can they can speak to you scripture. Recall things maybe that you're unable to. And can give you wisdom. Any any last comments on those first two questions. And we kind of we kind of touched on number three, too.

But we can we can hit it just so that we can. Make sure that we're we're learning to stay within when the boundaries of decision-making. Biblical boundaries of decision-making. How do we understand confirmations?

Without being mystical or superstitious.

So can we provide a definition for mystical beforehand? Because that has a different connotation, uh, it's been used a couple different ways. Yeah, so I.

Will so For example Tyler as as we've started with question one and two, right? Should we pray for signs to seek God's direction? Question two is that does God use things to provide confirmation and then how do we understand confirmations?

Without being mystical or superstitious. So the idea of being mystical or superstitious In in theological language might be Gnostic about it, right? So we're looking for We're trying to read God in or to Isaac eat Activities and actions in our lives as being the providence of God and I will say this Coming from Being a country man myself and in growing up and hearing folks, you know, because Everybody likes to sound spiritual, right?

I mean we all probably know the person who Before they go in and I hate this I hate this story, but I'm gonna tell it because it's a true story. Charles Stanley right shares a test shared a testimony one time about praying what turkey he needed to get when he went in the store a lot of people will try to.

You know because it really and it may not it may even be a an unconscious Super holiness that they think they have right or you you don't pray what milk you're gonna get before you go into the grocery store.

If you're from certain areas of the country, you know, what kind of milk you got, you know. What your options are if waggles has got milk? I'm gonna get waggles at milk over Mayfield milk every day because somehow gas station milk is just better.

Right. Okay, but but that it would would that be A very mean or simple illustration Robert of what you were talking about there mystifying. You know mystifying basic decisions in our lives. And so In that I Think again that we just in not to sound Overly simplistic or overly rational but Sometimes you just got to make the decision and live with the outcome.

Like what Jay that's what Jay was getting at. I think earlier right you're faced with two jobs. You know, you know, you're Bruce almighty your friend God show me a sign you're driving down the road. There's all these blinking arrows, right?

There's the the truck that passes him with all the signs on the back. But when in reality We have to base our Actions our decisions and and I think decisions is the right term. It's a reasonable and rational term rational term that we have to make our decisions based on as Matt said principle.

Based on what we know in the scriptures and as far as that confirmation goes man. I I. Well, I don't have the keys on. I'll have to switch my soundboard here. But I was ready to play the keys when John was talking there about confirmation because the key is this.

The key is this when brothers and sisters in Christ are in the word. You could believe that it's likely we're gonna be on the same page. Yeah, and so when you when you are struggling with issues or questions in your life.

You know theological or personal whatever the case may be if you're part of a local body. Where the word gets preached consistently and faithfully if you're in the word. Your pastor is in the word the people are in the word you are not gonna be able to go to church on Sunday morning without coming out with some kind of confirmation or affirmation and all because simply because It's rooted and grounded in the Word of God itself.

Amen.

And I'll just give a more extreme example and some people may not agree with me. But I think it touches on it enough to be Really close to being related to what we're talking about when we say mysticism and superstition.

So we know from Scripture that we're not supposed to talk to the dead. We're not supposed to practice witchcraft. We're not supposed to read the stars and stuff like that. We know that from Scripture, but How we practice our relationship with God often looks very similar to how those folks practice those things.

So When we're asking or seeking for a sign from God just like a Fortune teller will read tarot cards. What do we do? We read? coincidental sign and in reading those as if that's how God speaks to us or a Certain way we pray or certain words we use or the intensity We think that is invoking something from God when and that's how Those folks practice their ways.

And so we we adopt those forms and ways because we think we can invoke some kind of answer from God. And I think it's related to it enough to be called mysticism and superstition.

Yeah, and and I think it to one of the challenges like for what you what how you just explained that I think one of the challenges for many Christians is reading texts like James The effectual fervent prayer.

I believe the King James is the effectual fervent prayer, right? Let's talk about the white hot right now the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. Right, so we think if I can just pray harder.

The reality is as you just said Rob there are times where we try to muster up intensity and we assume that our intensity is God as The one who is doing the intensification process when it's nothing but us.

That there are genuinely times when we pray where we can't help but be white hot to be fervent in our prayers to be Maybe more Intense than we were in the times before but it we must continue back that None of that is based upon us, but it's based upon the faithfulness of Almighty God.

How much of this do you think is stemmed or rooted in some form of personal idolatry. Because every example that I've heard somebody used that y 'all haven't given tonight or the one that y 'all that y 'all given here tonight typically have the same Same feeling in the way you're saying them and it's something I heard Charles Stanley say all the time and I can't stand it.

I can't stand it. Well, there's two I can't stand. Charles Stanley's. What's what he said?

Well, and it's not just him, but he's the one I heard say it the most. He'd say God and his plan for your life every time he said that. I threw up a little bit. As if to say somehow another there's seven million different plans.

For seven million people or maybe it's maybe it's the wrong number. Maybe it's B. I don't know. Seven billion people and I want to say how many times man.

It's the wrong question, it's the wrong question.

I've got a problem with Judah right and he gets up to eight or Micah six. He's told you what is good. But your Lord requires of you only to act justly to love faithfulness and to walk humbly with your God.

God is not. You know schizophrenic is not like he's given different variances of the same thing. He wants you to do throughout scripture. It's just pretty consistent. Love the Lord with all your heart with all your mind all your soul.

Love your neighbor as yourself and. It's so many times people are talking about seeking the silence because of some selfishness in their own life. They're sitting on the throne and their theology God is somehow another their genie that they rub the lamp and he gets unlimited number of wishes in some form Of of idolatry.

I don't know what kind of idolatry it is. I don't know if there's more than one kind I don't know how it works, but I the last thing we need in America is more people talking about how God can do more for you and how church is somehow a Culmination of all the blessings God plans on giving you.

Yeah, I get frustrated while you're not straight over there John. I you're on fire here. So I want to ask you a question. Would you say that that this has to do more with American individualism sneaking into the church or do you think this is Something that we can see across the board in different places throughout the world.

Well, I can't answer that. Honestly, I've never been all the way around the world and I don't study stuff like it and I don't know that. I know what? American individualism is. I know what selfishness looks like.

And and that's what it looks like to me it looks like selfishness. I've been told that in other countries. Whenever people read scripture, they read scripture and it's that they decide what does this say about God?

We've been taught in America when we read scripture. What does this say about me? How does this apply to me? I I don't know how to tell somebody to read scripture that way. Because If you're reading scripture to see how each one of these applies specifically to you.

Then you're not going to have a concrete truth in it. You're not you can't you can't because you know, this becomes your truth or some nonsense like that.

Reach see the. I see the reason I wanted to flush that out a little bit with definitions is there is such a term as Christian mysticism and I was actually talking to this talking to somebody about this last weekend at at the bookstore I work at.

Because that was a term that you can trace through church history with like Augustine and some of these people. It was very big in like the medieval period. But it's different than what we're talking about.

Radically different because the foundation was the word but it was recognizing that. We don't just come at this with her with her brains and I just have it within me to fully understand this book. But God has to give me understanding or so who is God?

What is his will? How does what are his attributes? Who is his God? I claim to serve. I was reading Casadoras yesterday who's talking about how we by nature have a veiled heart and. That is unveiled only by the work of God in us.

Open thou mine eyes that I may behold wondrous things in thy law. Amen, and that's how the term mysticism used to be used. Was a recognition that this isn't just a book. But this is this is this flows from the character of God.

Which means the only way we can make any use of this book is for God to reveal himself. For us to pursue God that he would reveal himself to us that there's that cycle but we somehow we've devolved that into signs and.

Like you were talking about with superstition with Tarot cards and how can I manipulate the system to get what I want as opposed to sitting at the feet of Christ and being taught by God. Amen, doesn't someone.

19 teach me thy statutes blessed art thou. How do we get away from that?

There's okay reach.

My family opened up our home several months ago to a teenage teen to a teenager that was in a bad scenario and Like I said, we didn't we didn't need a neon sign telling us open your home. Sure, we just did it because this is what God calls us to do is to welcome the stranger to welcome the orphan to Exemplify Christ to people and through circumstances we had no control over.

She was ripped out of our home and That didn't negate that. God was still good that this was still God's will because sometimes there's no return. There's no positive return to obeying God. Sometimes it hurts.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense. But God is so good. This is still what he calls us to do who he calls us to be. And so we sit at his feet and say teach me. Yeah. Open my eyes that I may behold wondrous things in thy law.

I'll try to follow that up. That's such good stuff but to go back to today's question about American individualism That's definitely a real thing. But as somebody that's stepped foot on every continent except for Antarctica, you know, so I can't tell you how an artisans feel about this Cold.

About. Kind of the more modern use of mysticism. You're gonna go to some continents where it's worse. They don't claim to be Christians. They're reading the same Bible. They may have an ESP or an NASB just like you do and There it's a completely different Bible.

Now and we link that to maybe some problems in America where certain faiths that are decided that are disguised as Christianity have Stepped in and they're the ones planting churches and they're the ones building hospitals.

And so this false form of Christianity has stepped in. Yeah. Absolutely. So Where that starts where it began? Does it start with American individualism? I don't know but I can definitely tell you it does have an effect on every continent in this.

In this world save for Antarctica.

Biblical Decision-Making in the Church

Well, and where you got where you guys just took us is where I was going leading me to the the question number four. You I mean you guys took us right there because I think there there is a problem and.

Sometimes the terminology may not be wrong or incorrect. It's just the terminology that we're most familiar with and so When we say we're seeking God's will we're most familiar with it looking like this so.

And this may be more to leadership. Would it be more or would it be less confusing if we want to lead our our people into the right direction? Instead of using the terminology seeking God's will not that it's wrong.

But using other terminology like making a biblical decision, do you think that's wise as a leader? Yes.

Yeah, I was in a situation not that long ago. Well just a couple years ago. So I'm getting out of the military because of the expertise that I have in certain areas and the degrees that I have. I was offered a really really good job great job but because of what was going on with COVID at the time and Arizona's response to it at that time the job may not be there or may have been delayed for a while.

So my military pay was gonna run out. And I didn't know if I could wait on this job if in fact it was gonna be delayed. So I'm praying for it and what I'm asking for it is not so much a sign, but I'm asking for discernment.

I'm seeking scripture. What do I do here? And then out of nowhere came. Just because of some family issues. My father may not have been able to continue to run a family business by himself that's been in the family for over 20 years.

So I'm looking at my immediate family first mission first. That's what I'm looking at. But now I've got an opportunity to affect the lives of my entire family extended family. To include generation past us.

So we talked about building to the generation and to the third generation. So I'm looking at that as now that's a biblical principle. That's a biblical decision so that it wasn't even a choice. You know, I stepped right in and said no, I'll help you run this business.

Don't worry about the other job.

Hmm let's transition over to to leadership. Well, you guys feel about leadership and and the direction as as a pastor elder leader in a church let's say your church has to make a decision as As a whole and so we want to see God as a whole we want to make a biblical decision as a whole.

But the issue is. There's more than one of. And where there's more than one of us there's gonna be more than one opinion and. One person may say well God's God's leading. God's telling me we need to go in this direction.

You know another person say I feel like God's telling us we need to go in this direction. What's step one? Let's start at the beginning. Hmm. What do we need to tell our congregation? Do we need to teach them how to make decisions?

Anybody want to start us off. If that's a pastor, how do I start. That's exact. Okay, so.

What is your question based on a Entire congregation being affected or looking to make a decision or Individuals. Well, I again I would start on the individual basis. Particularly if you're talking about a congregational Policy, right?

So where the church like you mentioned at the beginning right where the the whole church would vote on an issue or a matter. You still as a pastor. This is exactly this is exact I learned this years ago.

You have to start with the individual. You can't go with the majority because the problem is if if the majority is Crooked. It don't matter how straight you try to go you're gonna veer off the wrong way.

So it starts with the individual and concerning individual decision-making. I would go straight to the text of Scripture. I would go to something like Titus. This is where I've brought this up here Titus 2.

And I'm gonna read quite a bit of Scripture here. But it's very very important because this sets the foundation this sets the stage. So It Paul's letter to Titus as for you teach what accords with sound doctrine.

Start right there. What sound doctrine. God's Word? You've got to start with there if you don't if you start anywhere other than God and his Word. You're off on the you're hopping off on her own foot right off the bat.

Older men be sober-minded dignified self-controlled sound in faith in love and steadfastness. Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior not slanderers or slaves too much wine. They are to teach what is good and to train the young women to love their husbands and children to be self-controlled.

Pure working at home kind and submissive to their own husbands that the Word of God may not be reviled. Likewise urge the younger men to be self-controlled. Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works and in your teaching show Integrity dignity and sound speech that cannot be condemned.

So then an opponent may be put to shame having nothing evil to say about us. On servants are to be submissive. So let me stop here. So again on the individual basis. It's where it goes. It's where it starts.