The Infancy Gospel of Thomas and James 2:14-26

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March 9, 2016

Two sections to today's program: the first is a reading of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (with a few comments thrown in for good measure), followed by an extended discussion, based upon comments made recently by Tim Staples on Catholic Answers Live, of James 2:14 -26 and justification by faith alone.

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00:35: Well greetings welcome to the dividing line all I see is a big red screen, so I'm not sure if I'm on or not but That's okay.
00:42: Hey there. We go nice pixelated thing of me moving really slowly and looking really weird Didn't test that part out.
00:49: Hey, we're gonna start off anyways with Story time with Grandpa Jimmy again.
00:55: That was really popular last time, but I'm not gonna spend a whole lot of time. No it still looks bad reading
01:02: Gnostic Gospels Thank You Travis story time with Grandpa Jimmy there it is
01:08: I was quick Someone I mean I'll put that up about five minutes ago, so that that worked there you go that that looks good
01:15: A bunch of people asked me what I was reading when I read the Protovangelium of James Which is really the story of Mary, but Protovangelium of James This is the
01:28: Jesus seminar version you may recall well, you probably don't recall actually but Long long ago.
01:34: There was sort of they sort of had their heyday they they put out the scholars version of the
01:39: Bible well of the Gospels and This is the scholars Bible and Ronald F.
01:46: Hock is the author let's say You know it's a fairly idiomatic translation, so it's you know
01:55: It's not filled with these and vowels it flows fairly well, and it's a Greek English interlinear, so you have
02:03: Greek on one side English on the other lots of notes It's it's fairly you know it's scholarly work
02:10: And it's worthy of having but it only has those two works and So today we are going to read the infancy gospel of Thomas and Instead of 25 chapters, it's only 19 chapters, but they're a little bit longer chapters
02:26: So it's about the same length that they're about the same probably half an hour a little bit more of reading and Once again, this is to be differentiated from the
02:37: Arabic infancy gospel which is where the Quran got the
02:46: Stuff about Jesus speaking from the cradle This I know at least
02:55: I'm actually I've invited the wife out for dinner in a movie tomorrow night. We're gonna.
03:01: We're gonna go see young Messiah and I sort of sort of have to because the
03:10: Promo that I saw had Jesus opening his hands and these birds fly out well we're that's first story in here first story in the infancy gospel of Thomas and The Jesus of this gospel is just despicable.
03:29: That's the only way to put it is despicable Now a bunch of people
03:35: After last program sent me a bunch of links about how this guy was converted while making this movie
03:40: And they've tried to be extremely respectful, and they've taken all the Gnosticism out Okay, I Hope so I'll try to keep an open mind, but you know for me the real question is
03:55: Why make this in the first place? because There's there's so little information that's actually given to us that we knows true and Isn't it fairly obvious that it's the spirits intention to keep it that way
04:10: Why do we keep saying you should have told us more? There's a I don't know I feel like there's a sense of arrogance but Who am
04:20: I right a lot of you don't like me anyways? So let's for those of you riding bikes
04:30: Running on treadmills. Oh wait a minute. I'm not supposed to say anything personal. I'm sorry It seems we have a number of people in Twitter that are the producers of this program or the directors.
04:41: I didn't know I Had a guy yesterday. I should be I shouldn't be talking about personal stuff it's it's sort of like they're paying me to be their instructor, and I've been sloughing off and I I didn't know that we had people like that out there that actually could control the content of the other program
04:59: So sorry Anyways, but if you happen to be one of those people who is working out at the moment
05:08: You will get to read the entire infancy gospel of Thomas the same way. I read most things and that is by listening and You know this oh, it's a personal thing well, you know what
05:21: I don't have to care I forgot I don't I don't care about those people who think they can drill a program
05:26: You know some of the fondest memories I have from my youth Was when the family would turn out the lights and We'd all
05:39: Cuddle up together and listen to the radio Those remember the shadow.
05:47: Oh, yeah. Yeah they Those are still classic and We've lost that I'm sorry
05:55: But I think an hour spent listening to classic old -time radio where you're actually using your imagination worth 10 ,000 hours in a first -person shooter game 10 ,000 hours in a first -person shooter game
06:14: Really do because you used your mind you listened you created The vision through what you were hearing in your mind,
06:23: I think listening is a is a really important thing so time to do some listening let's
06:33: This is this one's weirder than the pro even the proteo evangelium of James probably same time period but Clearly less
06:46: Biblical content or impact I guess we put that way All right.
06:53: Here we go I Thomas the Israelite and reporting to you all my non -jewish brothers and sisters
07:01: To make known the extraordinary childhood deeds of our Lord Jesus Christ what he did after his birth in my region
07:06: This is how it all started When this boy Jesus was five years old.
07:12: He was playing at the forward of a rushing stream He was collecting the flowing Potter Potter the
07:19: Collecting the flowing water into puns and made the water instantly pure He did this with a single command.
07:27: He then made soft clay and shaped it into 12 sparrows He did this on the
07:35: Sabbath day and many other boys were playing with him See we could have music done done done something like that, you know the
07:44: Sabbath day thing, you know But when a Jew saw what Jesus was doing while playing on the
07:50: Sabbath day He immediately went off and told Joseph Jesus his father see here Your boy is at the Ford and has taken mud and fashioned birds with it and so has violated the
08:00: Sabbath So Joseph went there and as soon as he spotted him, he shouted. What are you doing?
08:06: Or why are you doing what's not permitted on the Sabbath? But Gia simply clapped his hands and shouted the sparrows be off fly away and remember me you who are now alive and The sparrows took off and flew away noisily
08:21: The Jews watched with amazement Then left the scene to report their leaders what they had seen
08:27: Jesus doing I take a Brief break from the story to point out that that story ends up in the
08:33: Quran as well The son of Annas the scholar standing there with Jesus took a willow branch and drained the water
08:41: Jesus had collected Jesus over saw what had happened and became angry saying to him you are a reverent fool
08:48: What harm did the ponds of water do to you from this moment you too?
08:53: Will dry up like a tree and you'll never produce leaves or root or bear fruit In an instant the boy completely withered away
09:01: Then Jesus departed left for the house of Joseph the parents of the boy who had wither away picked him up and were carrying him
09:08: Out sad because he was so young and they came to Joseph and accused him. It's your fault. Your boy did all this
09:16: Later he was going through the village again when a boy ran by and bumped him on the shoulder Jesus got angry and said to him you won't continue your journey and all of a sudden he fell down and died
09:30: Some people saw what had happened and said where has this boy come from everything he says happens instantly
09:36: The parents of the dead boy came to Joseph and blamed him saying because you have such a boy You can't live with us in our village or else teach him to bless and not curse.
09:44: He's killing our children I think I would have said a little bit more than that So justice summoned his child admonished him in private saying why are you doing all this these people are suffering and so they hate and harass us
09:57: Jesus said I know what the words I spoke are not my words still I'll keep quiet for your sake
10:03: But those people must take their punishment There and then his accusers became blind
10:11: Those who saw this became very fearful and at a loss all they could say was Every word he says whether good or bad has become a deed a miracle even
10:21: When Joseph saw that Jesus had done such a thing He got angry and grabbed his ear and pulled very hard the boy became infuriated with him and plied
10:29: It's one thing for you to seek and not find it's quite another for you to act this unwisely Don't you know that?
10:35: I don't really belong to you. I Almost feel like saying this next line Don't make me upset
10:50: Yeah Anyway, I don't know about you, but I'm not reading this story to my granddaughter.
10:56: That's for sure this Yeah, it is a
11:03: Teacher by the name of Zacchaeus was listening to everything Jesus was saying to Joseph and was astonished saying to himself.
11:08: He is just a child and saying this and So he summoned Joseph and said to him you have a bright child and he has a good mind.
11:17: Yes first thing I'd say Sorry a little commentary here Hand him over to me so he can learn his letters.
11:24: I'll teach him everything. He needs to know so as not to be unruly Joseph replied. No one is able to rule this child except God alone.
11:32: Don't consider him to be a small cross brother When Jesus heard
11:37: Joseph saying this he laughed and said Zacchaeus believe me teacher what my father told you is true
11:43: I am the Lord of these people and I'm present with you and have been born among you and am with you
11:48: I know where you've come from and how many years you'll live. I Swear to you teacher.
11:54: I existed when you were born if you wish to be a perfect teacher Listen to me and I'll teach you a wisdom that no one else knows except for me and the one who sent me to you
12:03: It's you who happened to be my student and I know how old you are and how long you have to live
12:09: When you see the cross that my father mentioned then you'll believe that everything I've told you is true
12:16: The Jews are staying by and heard Jesus marveled and said how strange and paradoxical This child is barely five years old and yet he says such things
12:24: In fact, we've never heard anyone say the kind of things this child does Jesus said to them reply.
12:32: Are you really so amazed rather consider what I've said to you The truth is that I also know when you were born and your parents and I announced this paradox to you
12:39: When the world was created I existed along with the one who sent me to you The Jews once they heard that child was speaking like this became angry, but were unable to say anything in reply
12:50: But the child skipped forward and said to them I've made fun of you because I know that your tiny minds marvel at trifles
12:59: When therefore they thought that That they were being Comforted by the child's exhortation.
13:06: The teacher said to Joseph bring him to the classroom and I'll teach him the alphabet Joseph took him by the hand and led him to the classroom
13:14: The teacher wrote the alphabet for him and began the instruction by repeating the letter alpha many times But the child clammed up and did not answer him for a long time
13:23: No wonder then that the teacher got angry and struck him on the head The child took the blow calmly replied to him
13:29: I'm teaching you rather than being taught by you I already know the letters you're teaching me and your condemnation is great
13:37: Do these letters like a bronze pitcher or a clashing cymbal which can't produce glory or wisdom because it's all just noise
13:43: Nor does anyone understand the extent of my wisdom When he got over being angry, he recited the letters from Alpha to Omega very quickly
13:52: Then he looked at the teacher and told him since you don't know the real nature of the letter Alpha How are you going to teach the letter beta you imposter?
14:00: If you know teach me first letter Alpha and then I'll trust you with the letter beta He began to quiz the teacher about the first letter, but he was unable to say anything
14:11: Then while many were listening He said to Zacchaeus listen teacher and observe the arrangement of the first letter
14:18: How it has two straight lines or strokes proceeding to a point in the middle gathered together elevated dancing three -cornered two -cornered
14:26: Not antagonistic of the same family providing the Alpha has lines of equal measure
14:32: After Zacchaeus the teacher had heard the child expressing such intricate allegories regarding the first letter
14:38: He despaired of defending his teaching. He spoke to those who were present poor me
14:43: I'm utterly bewildered wretched that I am I've heaped shame upon myself because I took on this child
14:50: So take him away, I beg you brother Joseph. I can't endure the severity of his look or his lucid speech
14:56: This child is no ordinary mortal He can even tame fire. Perhaps he was born before the creation of the world.
15:03: What sort of womb bore him? What sort of mother nourished him? I don't know poor me friend.
15:08: I've lost my mind. I've deceived myself I who am wholly wretched I strove to get a student and I've been found to have a teacher friends
15:16: I think of the shame because although I'm an old man I've been defeated by a mere child and so I can only despair and die on account of this child right now
15:23: I can't look him in the face when everybody says that I've been defeated by a small child What can I say?
15:28: And what can I report about the lines of the first letter which he told me about? I just don't know friends for I don't know its beginning or its end
15:37: Therefore I ask you brother Joseph take him back to your house What great thing he is God or angel whatever else
15:42: I might call him. I don't know While the Jews were advising Zacchaeus the child laughed loudly and said now
15:50: Let the infertile bear fruit and the blind see in the deaf in the understanding of their heart here
15:55: I've come from above so I might save those who are below and summon them to higher things just as the one who sent me to you
16:04: Sent me to you commanded me when the child stopped speaking all those who had fallen under the curse were instantly saved and from then on no one dared to anger him or fear of being cursed and maimed for life a
16:19: Few days later Jesus was playing on the roof of a house when one of the children playing with him fell off the roof and died
16:24: When the other children saw what had happened, they fled leaving Jesus standing all by himself
16:30: The parents the dead child came and accused Jesus you troublemaker you you're the one who threw him down Jesus responded.
16:37: I didn't throw him down. He threw himself down. He just wasn't being careful and leaped down from the roof and died
16:43: Then and I can just see Marvel using this then Jesus himself leaped down from the roof and Stood by the body of the child and shouted in a loud voice
16:52: Zeno. That was his name get up and tell me Did I push you? He cut up immediately and said no
17:01: Lord. You didn't push me you raised me up Those who saw this were astonished and the child's parents praised
17:08: God for the miracle that had happened and worshipped Jesus A few days later a young man was splitting wood in the neighborhood when his axe slipped and cut off the bottom of his foot
17:20: He was dying from the loss of blood The crowd rushed there in an uproar and the boy Jesus ran up to he forced his way through the crowd and grabbed hold
17:27: The young man's wounded foot. It was instantly healed He said to youth get up now split your wood and remember me
17:34: The crowd saw what had happened and worshipped the child saying truly the Spirit of God dwells in this child
17:40: When he was six years old, so all that's just that was that was just when he was five
17:46: Wow When he was six years old his mother sent him to draw water and bring it back to the house
17:52: But he lost his grip on the pitcher in the jostling of the crowd and it fell and broke So Jesus spread out the cloak he was wearing and filled it with water and carried it back to his mother
18:02: His mother once she saw the miracle that had occurred kissed him But she kept to herself the mysteries that she had seen him do
18:09: Again during the sowing season the child went out with his father to sow their field with grain While his father was sowing the child
18:16: Jesus sowed one measure of grain when he had harvest and threshed it it yielded 100 measures
18:22: Then he summoned all the poor in the village to the threshing floor and gave them grain Joseph carried back
18:27: What was left of the grain Jesus was eight years old when he did this miracle? Now Jesus father was a carpenter
18:37: Making plows and yokes at the same time at that time. I'm sorry at that time He received an order from a rich man to make a bed for him when one board of what is called the cross beam turned out shorter than the other and Joseph didn't know what to do the child
18:51: Jesus said to his father Joseph put the two boards down and line them up at one end Joseph did as a child told him
18:58: Jesus stood at the other end and grabbed hold of the shorter board and by stretching it made the same length as the other
19:05: I Thought this would be your favorite story
19:10: Wouldn't that be cool, you know because you're the one always says Measure twice cut once yeah, right.
19:16: I've been cutting all day long and still it doesn't fit. Okay. All right His father
19:22: Joseph looked on and marveled and he hugged and kissed the child saying how fortunate I am that God has given this child to me yes
19:28: The kid that bumps off all of his playmates. They bump them the shoulder and how fortunate I am because he can make
19:35: Yeah, that's sort of like making one leg longer than the other, you know, I may made him even that's great wonderful We're getting toward the end believe it or not there's this is chapter 14 out of 19 we're doing good
19:48: When Joseph saw the child's aptitude and his great intelligence for his age He again resolved that Jesus should not remain illiterate
19:54: So I took him and hand him over to another teacher then the teacher said to Joseph first I'll teach him
19:59: Greek then Hebrew This teacher of course knew of the child's previous experience the teacher and was afraid of him still here out the alphabet and instructed him
20:07: For quite a while though. Jesus was unresponsive Then Jesus spoke if you're really a teacher and if you know the letters
20:13: Well, tell me the meaning of the letter alpha and I'll tell you the meaning of beta the teacher became exasperated and hit him on the head
20:21: I Predict bad things I'm not even sure this would be a
20:30: G -rated story So the teacher became exasperated and hit him on the head
20:37: Jesus got angry and cursed him and the teacher immediately lost consciousness and fell face down the ground
20:44: The child returned to Joseph's house, but Joseph was upset and gave this instruction to his mother Don't let him go outside because those who annoy him end up dead
20:56: Yeah, that's uh that now that would be an interesting quote you know if you'd like to demonstrate the relevance of these works this would be
21:09: Infancy Thomas 14 5 Infancy Thomas Thomas 14 5 don't let him go outside because those who annoy him end up dead.
21:18: There you go battle after some time another teacher a
21:26: Close friend of Joseph said to him send the child to my schoolroom perhaps with some flattery I can teach him his letters
21:33: Just replied if you can muster the courage brother take him with you So he took him along with much fear and trepidation, but the child was happy to go
21:41: Geostro boldly in the classroom and found a book lying on the desk He took the book But did not read the letters in it rather he opened his mouth and spoke by the power of the
21:49: Holy Spirit and taught the law to those standing there a large crowd gathered and stood listening to him and they marveled the maturity of his teaching and his readiness of speech a mere child able to Say such things when
22:00: Joseph heard about this he feared the worst and ran to the schoolroom Imagining that this teacher was having trouble to Jesus, but the teacher said to Joseph brother
22:07: Please know that I accepted this child as a student, but already he's full of grace and wisdom
22:13: So I'm asking your brother to take him back home When the child heard this he immediately smiled at him and said because you have spoken and testified rightly
22:20: That other teacher who was struck down will be healed and right away. He was Joseph took his child and went home
22:28: Joseph sent his son James to tie up some wood and carry it back to the house and the child
22:33: Jesus followed While James was gathering the firewood a viper bit his hand as he lay sprawled on the ground dying
22:40: Jesus came and blew on the bite immediately the pain stopped the animal burst apart and James got better on the spot
22:49: After this incident an infinite and an infant in Joseph's neighborhood became sick and died and his mother grieved terribly
22:55: Jesus heard the loud wailing and the uproar that was going on and quickly ran there When he found the child dead he touched its chest and said
23:05: I say to you infant don't die But live and be with your mother Immediately the infant looked up and laughed
23:11: Jesus then said to the woman take it give it your breast and remember me The crowd of onlookers marvel at this truly this child was a
23:18: God or a heavenly messenger of God whatever He says instantly happens, but Jesus left and when
23:23: I'm playing with the other children A year later while a building was under construction a man fell from the top of it and died
23:29: There was quite a commotion. So Jesus got up and went there when he saw the man lying dead He took his hand and said
23:35: I say to you sir get up and go back to work And he immediately got up and worshipped him the crowd saw this and marveled this child's from heaven
23:43: He must be because he has saved many souls from death and he can go on saving all his life last chapter
23:53: When he was 12 years old his parents went to Jerusalem as usual for the Passover festival along with their fellow travelers
23:59: After Passover, they began their journey home But while on their way the child Jesus went back to Jerusalem his parents
24:05: Of course assumed that he was in a traveling party after they had traveled one day They began to look for him among their relatives when they did not find him
24:12: They were worried and returned again to the city to search for him after three days They found him in the temple area sitting among the teachers listening to the law and asking them questions
24:20: All eyes were on him and everyone was astounded that he a mere child could interrogate the elders and teachers of the people Explained the main points of law and the parables of the prophets his mother
24:31: Mary came up and said to him child Why have you done this to us? Don't you see we've been worried sick looking for you
24:36: Why are you looking for me? Jesus said them don't you know I have to be in my father's house Then the scholars in a
24:41: Pharisee said are you the mother of this child? She said I am they said to her You more than any woman or be to congratulate for God has blessed the fruit of your womb for we've never seen nor heard such glory and Such virtue and wisdom
24:53: Jesus got up and went with his mother and was obedient to his parents his mother took careful note of all that happened and Jesus Continued to excel in learning and gain respect to him be glory forever and ever and that Obviously the last chapter is
25:10: Taken directly from the Canonical story of Jesus in the temple at 12 years of age and obviously it is included there to try to give some semblance of Credibility and weight to the story that was told beforehand and Obviously in the time period starting in the middle of the second century or so as Christianity became
25:45: Widely known amongst many people There were many people who were untaught there were many people who did not have access to the scriptures and Especially once you had situations where you had the rise of nominalism people who are
26:10: Christian in name only when you have The Conversion of entire cities
26:22: When you have eventually the conversion of the Roman Empire under Theodosius in late 4th century that's not how conversion takes place and You can have an army walk under someone who's sprinkling water on them
26:40: That just means they're gonna get rust spots on their helmets. I mean, that's that's all that does it doesn't create
26:47: Christians and so Hit the history of the church is filled with people trying to get answers to questions that I Personally believe truly regenerate believers don't even bother to ask
27:08: They won't ask because they are Content with the
27:13: Word of God. They're content with what God has revealed and They're not going to pry into things that that God has not
27:23: God has not revealed and so These Some some might ask well, how did these become so popular?
27:36: And they they did become popular. Well you know you look at the medieval period when when there was a great decline in literacy and The vast majority of people in the medieval period didn't know the difference between what was in canonical scripture and what was in popular stories because popular stories were far easier to tell and remember than to actually make reference to a written text and so in the early church these types of stories by their popularity
28:11: Were far easier to communicate than say Well the the text of 2nd
28:18: Corinthians or something like that and So people who wanted to have an easy
28:27: Way to remember things that was that was the way to go and and that's that's how it worked.
28:32: That's how it functioned and obviously there was a major discernment issue with many people
28:43: That's not overly shocking overly surprising It was a difficult transitionary period after the
28:52: Apostles in the sense that the church is now facing all sorts of Questions and Controversies having to answer, you know pagan critics and it was a period of the apologists and Reminds me a little bit of the fact that the early
29:14: Anabaptists Were really not able to develop a in -depth systematic theology because they just wouldn't live for very long and the same way during this period of time you had people who would be thrust in the position of having to defend the
29:29: Christian faith that didn't even have an entire New Testament canon and Very often they would have brought with them
29:40: Traditions and understandings from Greek philosophy whatever their background was that really weren't all that compatible with a sound biblical position, but it's all they had and These types of stories would would flourish during during periods like that.
29:57: And so I Guess what we probably need to do sometime in the future is read the
30:03: Gospel of Thomas. It's only 114 Verses probably won't even take as long as it took to read that And then there are a few others will probably get to most as you can see most of them are pretty short
30:16: They're not they're not long I just like exposing people to these things because I think one of the main reasons that stuff like this ends up having power over people that you know that the
30:32: Bart Ehrman folks trained folks in the Local community colleges throw this stuff out at our young people and since they've never heard of it before They have no way of interacting with it.
30:46: And I always the question is I'd why why did they tell me that about that? My church, you know, it's not overly edifying stuff, but There's a lot of stuff in church history.
30:57: That isn't overly edifying but being ignorant of it is Dangerous, it's just downright dangerous
31:04: So there is the infancy gospel of Thomas hope you enjoyed that That exciting section now.
31:15: I was I will not tell you Uncle Jim will this be the last audio book you produce or we get more
31:27: Gnostic Gospels, how many are you planning to read? Well, Bobby well
31:36: Timmy that's actually it's Tim well Timmy I Don't know there are a lot of them out there
31:43: But we'll just have to see Because you know, we don't want to do too much advertising for the for the hairy tics
31:52: You understand what I mean? Did you just read the infancy gospel of Chuck Norris In the
32:04: YouTube chat, there is a number of different names being offered up as to the possibility of who you were really reading about Okay I'm having
32:14: I'm having to listen to you through the wall because I didn't put my earpiece. I heard you Yes, infancy of Donald infancy of Donald Donald Duck, I'm sure
32:23: John we would never do politics various and yes people so It's people's imaginations are already running wild.
32:32: Yeah Book I'm sure they are Yeah, we'll see I have you know
32:40: Here is this is back from when we were Doing the
32:50: Family tomb of Jesus stuff. Here is the the gospel of Mary of Magdala Jesus and the first woman
32:58: Apostle Karen King's odd Thing here and some of these start getting
33:07: The Gnostics weren't the most moral people so they start getting a little weird, but you've got the gospel the
33:14: Ebionites and the gospel of Judas and and The apocryphal acts of the Apostles and I'm just looking at just what
33:22: I've got Sitting right here right next to me So there's there's all sorts of Stuff like that and I have a
33:31: I have a three volume set in the other room from Nag Hammadi of all that stuff in the original languages and translations and critical editions and and the whole nine yards, so we'll see the point is we've now read two of the three most famous and I put a little
33:52: I Started a little WordPress blog over the weekend a little personal one and I used this one should have gone on the
33:59: Alpha Omega one but I did a short little Test article about the proteo
34:05: Evangelium of James and made some observations about there And if you follow me on Twitter or Facebook You might want to get that URL it's really easy to remember.
34:16: It's Chesed C H E S E D Chesed Which is the beautiful Hebrew term for loving kindness covenant faithfulness mercy grace
34:23: All those things are wrapped up in Chesed Chesed 297 297 is the number of times the root appears in the
34:29: Hebrew Old Testament dot wordpress .com I think and Anyway, so I'm gonna throw some personal stuff on on that Just assuming that eventually we're all gonna get bounced off of that stuff out of out of social media.
34:46: Anyhow And I don't think it's gonna matter who gets elected as to when that's gonna happen.
34:53: It's just just the way it is But I made some comments there Anyway, I need to press on here because there is more that we need to do and I forgot to fire up Desktop presenter here my apologies for that The reason that I make that comment is that I Wish to send to you
35:18: Quicktime player I Was directed to this video this morning and I Wanted to play out
35:33: I may play the whole the whole thing what oh, I may play the whole thing
35:42: But Especially this first part I I want to play and You know,
35:50: I haven't seen old Tim for a while When was our last debate was about in public was about 2000 wasn't it?
36:00: I think it's around 2000 and So it's been about 16 years and Old Tim's got snow on the roof there really really does
36:13: Tim Staples Catholic answers and They get a call about Justification by faith and I Want to play at least he's gonna give five verses and it's just let's just listen to the whole thing
36:29: Let's how about we just listen to the whole thing. Yeah, let's Give you give you a sense Nothing new here and that's the whole point
36:42: It's this you know it on one level that's understandable The issues are still the same though,
36:49: I'm not sure they're the issues are still the same with the current Pope But the issues are pretty much, you know the same
36:57: But at the same time as I will provide criticism of Tim Staples verses and his explanation of them
37:09: There just isn't any advancement in Recognizing what the other side has to say when you listen to the other side
37:16: I mean if you listen to what I say about Islam today and compare it with 2006 you will see movement
37:24: I Understand Islam better now, which allows me to express my
37:32: Objections with greater clarity You just don't see that amongst the most popular and Tim Staples is extremely popular
37:42: Roman Catholic apologist it you just you just don't see it So anyway
37:51: Someone in channels going was Tim Staples the guy on Jeopardy You didn't see that.
37:57: Did you did you? Oh, yeah, I was doing matics. I know that was um, I actually
38:05: I DVR did and Played it and just sort of sat there going
38:11: I Don't know. I didn't see that coming, you know Walking into the
38:18: Catholic answers offices so long ago in San Diego Standing between Patrick Madrid and Jerry matics desks
38:29: I Talking to them there. I just never saw the the Jeopardy thing coming. I didn't but anyway
38:37: Let's let's listen to this call and to the answers and then we'll go back over it
38:44: My my grandmother My grandmother who's not Catholic went this weekend to my father -in -law's
38:54: Sunday school class. Yes, and and he's Baptist and he he taught on and Justification by faith alone and so my grandmother was upset by that And the fact that she was taught that no her works
39:12: Don't matter And I can think of verses where Jesus commands us to do things as evidence that our works do matter
39:22: Yes, but I didn't know how to articulate that Get a pen handy and a seatbelt if you're driving
39:31: This is you've called the right guest on this Mary. Yeah, by the way, Tim's not joking a pen and piece of paper
39:36: Would be a great idea. Yeah All right, Mary I'm just gonna give you about five Texts that that I think will be helpful because they helped me many years ago number one
39:45: Mary is you want to bring out James chapter 2 verse 24 and And put it just as James says it we see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
39:57: And ask him the question What would the Bible have to say to get you to believe that?
40:03: It's more than just faith exactly We're gonna hit those other four. Okay, we'll get the other four after the break But James 2 24, we see the man is justified by works and not by faith alone how
40:12: Mary in Houston Yes was there Mary still there You still there Mary in Houston I am great so your
40:19: Baptist father -in -law was teaching justification by faith alone and Tim right was cranking through five
40:26: Biblical passages that totally contradict the first one was James chapter 2 verse 24 But and I want to warn you
40:32: Mary that the response will be well James is not actually talking about works justifying but works
40:40: Proving that someone already is Justified but what you do when you say that is no you just said that that's not what
40:47: James says James says we see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
40:53: So in some sense you have to say our justification Is it you know, our works are included in the process of justification.
41:03: So that's number one number two You want to show not just in James but in books like Galatians and Romans Which are the ones that Luther classically use, you know,
41:14: Romans 328 a man is justified by Faith apart from the works of law
41:22: They love to use that text and and some from Galatians like Galatians to 16 as well So what you do now, those were not the ones
41:29: I wanted to give you Here's the ones I want to give you Romans chapter 2 verses 6 and 7
41:35: All right. Notice that st. Paul says God will reward each man according to his works
41:42: To him who continues in good works his reward shall be glory in corruption and eternal life.
41:49: So notice eternal life Is a reward for good works.
41:54: Now, of course those works have to be done in Jesus through Jesus But we must do them.
42:01: That's number two number three you go to Galatians chapter 6
42:08: Verses 7 through 9 where st. Paul says be not deceived. God is not mocked whatsoever man sows
42:15: That shall he reap now sows Meaning, you know you like the farmer who goes out and sow seeds.
42:22: This is something you have to do, right? to him who Continues to sow to the flesh he shall of the flesh reap death but to For him who continues to sow to the spirit he shall of the spirit reap
42:39: Everlasting life. Let us not therefore grow weary and well doing for we shall reap if we faint not now
42:47: That's verse 9 So you want to do Galatians 6 verses 7 through 9 and you say well How can Paul be any more plain that we have to continue to do good works and our reward will be eternal life number four
42:59: You want to go to Matthew chapter 12 verses 36 and 37 and I include 36 because in verse 36
43:07: Our Lord is talking about the final judgment and then in verse 37
43:12: He says by your words you will be justified and by your words You will be condemned and then finally you want
43:21: Matthew 25 verses 31 through 46 And this is the scene of the final judgment where Jesus separates the sheep and the goats
43:29: I'm not going to read through the whole thing but the bottom line is what you read in that story of the final judgment is the only difference between the sheep and the goats is
43:37: What they did and did not do they all call Jesus Lord But the difference is what they did and did not do those are five examples
43:47: I could give you 25 but that should get you started and I would also encourage you to get a hold of Jimmy Akin's new book called okay.
43:58: So there you have the five verses from Tim Staples now we of course discussed
44:08: The issue of Justification on the Bible answer man broadcast.
44:14: What's that 99 ish somewhere around? 1999 I think we were on we're on twice
44:20: I think may have been on twice both times that we did those debates in yeah Because one of them was just before the first debate.
44:27: Yeah, and that would have been 97 July 97 Yeah, this is it was a while ago. It was a while ago.
44:32: Um So we've we've gone over these things many times before and At least with James to he at least said well they're gonna say this
44:49: But just repeat what James said Showing no serious desire to interact with what we actually have in James chapter 2 and so what
45:04: I want to do Is give you
45:10: James chapter 2 will will actually blow it up a little bit like we normally do so it's a little bit more readable
45:20: I'd like to walk through James chapter 2 as an illustration of what you get from Rome and What you should get if you're honestly desiring to know what it is
45:36: That is said in James chapter 2 Because basically
45:41: Mr. Staples was saying well, you know, this is This is this is just what
45:47: James said well Why'd you go to verse 24 anyone who knows that text knows that the specific section that is most relevant is verses 14 through 24
46:07: And I think it's because now, you know Tim's an interesting fella
46:14: But Tim is pretty invested in his conversion and I Just don't know if he hears what anybody says to him to be honest with you.
46:27: I I don't I don't know if he does The last time we debated was in 2010 here on this program we did the purgatory debate which
46:37: I think was Pretty obvious as to what the outcome of that was It's It's impossible to defend that doctrine that belief
46:47: I think in any meaningful fashion, but anyway What about James chapter 2 is it something to fear well the usefulness of James chapter 2 for a polemicist like Tim Staples Is To accurately understand it requires time and the reading of the text and as long as You can throw it out
47:19: In a debate when you know, the other person does not even have enough time to read the text
47:26: Let alone deal with it Then it's extremely useful
47:34: But truth is found To be precious to those who will not be satisfied with the crumbs of Paltry speech -making
47:55: Sadly in our day there are there are people who think that you should always come up with an answer that will have the greatest
48:04: Utility utilitarians and I Don't believe that I Believe that the
48:13: Spirit of God Creates in the heart of a true believer a desire to know what the
48:20: Word of God says and So I am absolutely 1 ,000 times
48:28: Convinced 1 ,000 percent convinced. I'm sorry That James chapter 2 is
48:36: Inspired by the very same Holy Spirit that inspired Romans 3 and Ephesians 2
48:44: Luther was wrong to call James an epistle of straw Luther never seemed to come to understand the actual message of James at least at this point possibly because of his own background his own
49:02: Experience of justification, I don't know but if we use meaningful
49:12: Standards of exegesis and Look at everything that James has to say
49:18: What he has to say is extremely important now, I believe the
49:24: James 2 14 through 24 is Is the negative portion of The positive statement found here in chapter 1 so let's read this
49:42: But prove yourselves doers of the word and not merely hearers who delude themselves
49:49: For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer He is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror
49:56: For once he has looked at himself and gone away. He has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was
50:02: But one who looks intently at the perfect law the law of liberty and abides by it Not having become a forgetful here, but an effectual doer
50:11: This man will be blessed in what he says now notice the terminology that James uses in this positive command segment hearing and doing so it's passive on the part of the person you hear the command and you do
50:33: Gia said you love me keep my commandments My sheep what?
50:39: Hear my voice now if you keep that in mind when we go down to James chapter 2
50:49: You will note something about The terminology that is used consistently through this section
50:58: No, it begins What use is it my brethren if someone says he has faith?
51:07: But he has no works Can that faith? Save him
51:13: Now let's just stop right there and consider What is it that James is saying
51:20: I'm absolutely convinced that James and Paul were in 100 % agreement it is very common for Anti -Paul type people to attack
51:33: Him and say it he and James were at odds with one another and here's evidence of it shallow shallow shallow shallow as can be the
51:42: Apostle Paul repeatedly Spoke of The appropriateness of good works.
51:49: He said that even in the section on are being saved by grace alone in Ephesians chapter 2
51:54: We are saved by grace what? Unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them
52:01: So there is no contradiction as long as you allow James to speak for James and very rarely is that actually?
52:09: Allowed what is he actually saying? What use is it? What benefit my brethren? if faith to say a certain one has and Notice the verb here
52:25: Lego which most of us back in the day. We learned our Parsing our initial parsing of verbs with Lego You remember that right, that's right.
52:40: So here's To speak not to hear but this is something that's being said and What is being said a claim is being made?
52:56: I have faith. So the question is being asked
53:01: What good is it? What's the benefit of? The spoken claim
53:08: I have faith and yet there is no erga
53:16: There are no works So what kind of a faith is this?
53:23: It is a spoken faith. It is a claimed faith But as a faith that has no evidence in action
53:35: No evidence in behavior No evidence in life it exists only in the spoken realm and Right here that little word right there.
53:51: It is the article. Hey May do not
53:57: I hey pistis So say out on now the
54:05: King James New King James New Revised Standard simply say can faith save him None of them render this term right here the article before faith now again
54:18: I've said as many times before but I'll repeat it again There is almost nothing in the
54:25: Greek language. That is less
54:32: Parallel to English than the article we call it the word the or if it's an indefinite a or an
54:43: But the article in Greek and the article in English not the same thing and Rare is the student of the
54:53: Greek language that ever really begins to grasp the range of expression and the ability of the article to color and to texture
55:05: What's being said? Many translations such as the
55:12: New American Standard say can that Faith save him.
55:21: I have a quotation and by the way If you would like to read my comments today and in much deeper form
55:35: Chapter 20 of my book the God who justifies
55:41: Beginning on page 329 is called James attacks empty faith and It is a fairly lengthy chapter
55:55: It is what? 24 pages approximately 26 pages in length and A Lengthy discussion of James chapter 2 that goes
56:14: Significantly deeper into the language than Tim Staples did or that I think
56:19: Tim Staples ever has to be perfectly honest with you And I have a citation here.
56:25: Let me pull it out real quick from Dan Wallace and Here's what
56:33: Dan says about the article in 214 and you know you're saying what he quoted 224.
56:40: I know but 214 is the head passage. It's the head verse and It defines what faith is being attacked by James if you jump to 24
56:51: You'll never understand what he's saying or you'll misrepresent what he's saying, which is why they go there the faith that is being
57:00: Discussed is defined in verse 24 and we need to know what kind of faith it is Daniel Wallace lists this as an example of the anaphoric use of the article anaphoric means to point back to Point back to something else.
57:19: So can that faith the deedless faith? The faith that exists solely in the spoken word.
57:27: Can that faith? Save and by putting using may may do not
57:32: I? The expected response is no If you use an
57:39: OO form the expected response is positive may form is Negative Daniel Wallace comment on this passage after rendering it this kind of faith
57:51: Quote the author introduces this topic faith without works He then follows the question asking where this kind of faith is able to save the use of the article both points back to a certain kind of faith as defined by the author and Is used to particular eyes an abstract noun against the vast bulk of commentators
58:13: Hodges argues that the article is not anaphoric since otherwise the articular pistis and the following verses
58:18: Would also have to refer back to such a workless faith He translates the text simply as faith cannot save him canon
58:25: Although it may be true that the article with pistis in 17 18 20 22 and 26 is anaphoric
58:31: The antecedent needs to be examined in its own immediately immediate context in Particular the author examines two kinds of faith in to 14 through 26 defining a non -working faith as a non -saving faith and a productive faith as one that saves
58:51: Both James and Paul would agree. I believe with the statement faith alone saves but the faith that saves is not alone and Quote and I might just note in passing that that citation comes from the
59:09: I Think it wasn't the Westminster longer catechism. I think it's Westminster longer catechism is where you have that terminology being utilized that Dan Wallace agrees with there.
59:22: So the point is this Verse 14 defines for us the faith that we're talking about here and it is a faith that has no works a
59:36: Faith that has no evidence of its existence. It is just simply claimed you simply have
59:42: The the vocal the vocal cords are vibrating It hangs out there in the air and that's it.
59:51: That's it No one can say well there there's there's evidence of my that my faith is real because Here's what
01:00:01: I've done So he then illustrates this If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food
01:00:11: And one of you says them go in peace be warmed and be filled now, please notice and one of you does what?
01:00:20: Says to them Mere speech words no actions, but but the words and one of you says to them go in peace
01:00:31: Be warmed and be filled and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body
01:00:37: What use is that? There's Ophelos again, that was the same term that was used up here.
01:00:44: It's noticing right there verse 14 So what use is that? So what's being said is
01:00:54: Words that have no corresponding reality are Empty words they have no meaning even so faith if it has no works is dead being by itself and so even so faith
01:01:15: If it has no work, so in other words, what faith are we talking about? This is why this again proves of our interpretation the anaphoric use the article in verse 14 was correct
01:01:25: Even so faith if it has no works is dead being by itself it is alone.
01:01:31: It is a natural Remember back in chapter 1 it's unnatural for a person
01:01:39: To hear the Word of God, but not do it it is unnatural to look in a mirror and See what kind of a person you are and then walk away and forget who you are.
01:01:51: These are unnatural states Faith is an active thing
01:01:57: Faith in the Living God and of course if we take the whole biblical
01:02:05: Understanding of faith This is where the balance comes and this is where you have a lot of problems a lot of people is you don't have a whole biblical doctrine of faith
01:02:14: It's the gift of God given to his elect people. It's a part of the work of regeneration It's part of the new the new creature.
01:02:20: It is natural for the regenerate heart to believe and to repent because it's been raised to spiritual life and so Saving faith the faith that is the gift of God saving faith is going to be
01:02:37: Intimately connected with everything else that God does in salvation which includes Practical the practical outworking of salvation the making of a new creature
01:02:48: Someone who believes in Christ is obedient to Christ not in perfection that we have to take a full a
01:02:56: Full biblical understanding if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ righteous. We have to look at everything.
01:03:02: It's said But true saving faith, what did
01:03:07: Paul say? God ordained that we should walk in The realm of good deeds.
01:03:15: It's the natural outcome of the change in the heart. It's not what brings it about and It's not what sustains it and it doesn't come through sacraments.
01:03:27: It doesn't come through indulgences and all the rest of the silliness of Rome But many people when they throw out the silliness of Rome throw out the rest of what the
01:03:40: Bible says About the work of the Spirit of God in the life of the believer to a Said faith is dead because it's alone and Saving faith is never alone because saving faith is the work of the
01:03:58: Spirit of God and The purpose of the Spirit of God in bringing the elect to salvation is to conform them the image of Christ So again, the the the biblical key to being balanced in this area is recognizing salvation is of God and God has a purpose in the salvation of his people.
01:04:21: And so as long as you remain theocentric rather than anthropocentric
01:04:26: Rome is as anthropocentric as the sacramental system absolutely
01:04:33: Demands Anthropocentrism, it's focused upon the actions of man God Creates this system of vowels and lovers and stuff called the sacramental system, but you've got to work it
01:04:46: So you got to get that grace Bible knows nothing of that Nothing of that the
01:04:53: Bible knows of a sovereign grace and a sovereign God who is accomplishing
01:05:00: The salvation of a particular people to his own glory and so a
01:05:07: Said faith that is isolated from everything else the Spirit of God does in the life of the elect person is dead
01:05:12: It's not a real saving faith but verse 18 someone may well say
01:05:21: You have faith and I have works show me your faith out the works and I will show you my faith by my works
01:05:26: That's a verse 18 Ah if you've ever Tried to diagram first 18
01:05:36: Die a sentence diagramming is something you do in second year Greek normally and Verse 18
01:05:46: I'll tell the story many times before my dad told me the story long ago of how
01:05:53: The Greek professor at Moody Bible Institute in the early 1950s was Kenneth Weiss and his
01:06:00: Greek classes were known for being pretty tough and There were two tracks at Moody at the time.
01:06:07: There was the pastoral track and the missionary track and You had to take
01:06:13: Greek for the pastoral track, but you did not take Greek for the missionary track and the the statement the
01:06:20: Idea around Moody was that Kenneth Weiss was responsible for sending more people to the missions field than anyone else
01:06:29: And Verse 18 Would send a lot of people to the mission field to try to figure out the the syntax in the diagramming it there are a lot of possibilities and New very standard does does fine
01:06:46: But I want you to see one particular word Dykes on right here.
01:06:56: It's Dykes on Moy because of the enclitic efforts, but Dykes on here it is Dykes, oh right here to show
01:07:05: Show me Demonstrate it's the what is Missouri the show me state. So this is this is where James gets
01:07:13: Missourian Show me Don't what the 20th 21st century no 20th century version would be where's the beef?
01:07:22: Okay. All right Show me where's the beef? Yeah show me the consistency between your spoken words and your actions show me that's what verse 18 is about and I argue
01:07:42: I don't have time to go into it today. But but I give you some background material in the chapter this is a
01:07:54: Demonstration amongst persons show me Demonstrate here in this life.
01:08:00: Don't just suppose it. Oh, but my faith is in my heart and God knows
01:08:05: So I'm just gonna you know, no Demonstrate it here in this world in the same realm in which the words are being heard.
01:08:15: Let's have the proof Let's have the demonstration Okay, so Show me you say you you you so may well say
01:08:28: You have faith I have worked show me your faith apart from works I will show you my faith by my works.
01:08:33: Obviously, you can't make the demonstration without The Corresponding works because of the context in which the demonstration must be made.
01:08:44: I can't look into your heart God can I can't why is this important because of the realm in which the demonstration of Abraham's faith was made is going to be the illustration that causes people to trip up because they don't start back at verse 14.
01:09:01: I Can't tell you how many times standing outside the Mormon Temple or The Easter pageant in Mesa We would have conversations with Mormons and The conversation would start at verse 20
01:09:19: You can't start at verse 20. You are in the middle of an already predefined
01:09:27: Stream of thought the terms have already been defined We already know what kind of faith we're talking about We already know we're talking about a said faith
01:09:36: Versus a a faith that can provide evidence by its of its existence by what's done now
01:09:42: We have the idea of demonstrating in the same realm in which the claim is being made the reality of the faith
01:09:47: All of this we're only at verse 18. We haven't gotten to verse 20 yet And if you ignore the context like that, you can read anything you want into the end
01:09:57: Are you being fair to James? Of course you're not You're not really, you know, you're not really concerned about what
01:10:04: James was actually communicating Verse 19 you believe that God is one you do.
01:10:13: Well, the demons also believe and shudder so the demons recognize fundamental foundational
01:10:25: Theological truth But it has no impact upon them
01:10:33: Knowing theological truths vitally important The very reason the demons will try to get you to not believe that God is one is because it's vitally important You know that God is one
01:10:46: But mere theological truths are not enough Indispensable vital important constant under attack must be defended but not enough
01:11:01: You do well to believe that God is one But even the demons believe that and they are not thereby saved by that but are you willing to recognize verse 20
01:11:14: You foolish fellow you let's let's literally Remember, we've talked about kenosis in Philippians 2 before well, here's
01:11:22: Ken a Empty you empty man You foolish fellow. Are you willing to know that?
01:11:32: Hey pistis, there's it's still got the article Chorus tone
01:11:37: Aragon, is that not the exact faith of verse 14 a faith without works?
01:11:45: Is and then we have a variant Our gay means useless vain
01:11:54: The other variants Let's see if the instant highlights bring it up here.
01:11:59: Yeah, I love that And that great you can just put the little I know you young Millennials are going.
01:12:08: Hey, let's be an old man. Everything's that's great Yes, I do think it's great. I I still you know,
01:12:15: I This this what I grew up with, you know And if not my glasses on this just looks like smudges on the page
01:12:22: But you know, it's like look down there and then you know, it's just poofed right there Yeah, I think it's
01:12:27: I think it's pretty cool. We live in a we live in a great day The Variant as you can see.
01:12:34: Well, actually there are three variants. Do you see the three variants? You've got our gay and You have necro and you have ken a
01:12:47: So you you have dead and That's the
01:12:52: Byzantine reading and you have Ken a which is what we had in verse
01:13:03: Was it verse 17? No, it was necro.
01:13:08: It was above though, wasn't it? Well, anyways, I thought it was love and Then you have the text is found
01:13:20: BC You know, this is a lot a lot of Evidence The earliest papyri reading instantly enough is ken a
01:13:32: Necro has as a pretty decent Basis to it as well. The point is it's dead.
01:13:38: It's empty. It's useless You could you could put all three variants in there. It really would not materially change the meaning of the text at all the point is that and Let up dog.
01:13:53: It can a was right up there in 220 the empty man See, it's right there
01:14:01: On third of a ken a so maybe some people would argue that's the best reading because it's Poetic that is the reading of p74
01:14:11: But almost nothing else. So that's why it probably didn't get accepted is because it has very little
01:14:17: Manuscript evidence though. It has the earliest Earliest copy of James we have in p74 That's the only problem with doing it that way is
01:14:26: I can't roll down to I'd have to open up the Thing to get it. But anyway, the point is this
01:14:34: Unless you are an empty foolish man, you will recognize that a merely said faith is
01:14:42: Unnatural, it's empty. It's dead. It has no reason and It's not something we should want to be embracing ourselves.
01:14:53: But of course sola fide Does not say that you are saved by an empty dead faith and that's why folks
01:15:04: For the historical Doctrine of sola fide to be truly
01:15:14: Embraced and defended in a balanced biblical way. It can't be done in a balanced biblical fashion by an
01:15:23: Arminian can't Now don't run off and Not hear what
01:15:32: I just said There is many an Arminian Who believes in sola fide and sola gratia?
01:15:42: But when you get down to this level of examination the only way to be consistent is
01:15:52: To recognize that the faith we're talking about is the gift of God by the
01:15:57: Holy Spirit Given to the elect specifically to fulfill
01:16:02: God's purpose in the salvation of those people it has to remain
01:16:08: God centered or the balance will be lost the balance will be lost so Then we're given an illustration and I'm looking at the time here and I want to get done by 330 our time
01:16:26: Then we're given an illustration was not Abraham our father Justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son the altar now immediately we look at the use of The Dickeye Oh Family here and this is where people say see
01:16:42: James and Paul James and Paul different. They're on different planets here They're using justified
01:16:50: And they're contradicting. Here's James and he's saying no Paul's wrong in Romans 3 He's wrong in Galatians 2 is that what
01:17:01: James is talking about here? Because he's just said Not nice.
01:17:07: Is he saying that Abraham had merely a said faith? No he's using
01:17:14: Abraham as an example of someone who has a living faith a Faith, it's not just said
01:17:21: But it has actions. And so what's the justification before?
01:17:28: Remember if the show me Was in the level of where the words are spoken here in this life
01:17:36: Just justification has to be in the same context. We're not talking about justification that God proclaims on the basis of faith here and That becomes plain by the example he uses and his citation of Genesis 15 what do
01:17:54: I mean by that? Well Before whom was Abraham justified
01:18:01: When he offered up Isaac is set on the altar. Well, everybody goes. Well, there wasn't anybody else there. It was before God Don't forget about Isaac and Do you and I know about that story
01:18:15: Thousands of years later. Do we know about that story? is that not one of the most amazing stories of the
01:18:24: Union between faith and the result of faith Demonstrating that's a living faith
01:18:31: Would have been real easy for Abraham said I believe in Yahweh. I believe in Yahweh, but he Demonstrated it isn't that what verse 18 says
01:18:40: Show me demonstrate You see that faith was working with his works
01:18:47: That's a term there that might give some reformed folks hives, but it's in the
01:18:52: New Testament in fact synergisms in the New Testament monergism isn't and That means absolutely positively.
01:19:02: Nothing is to the propriety of the use of those two terms If you think oh, yeah, well synergisms in the
01:19:09: New Testament, you know those there's soon air guy right there and and Mon -air guy isn't then then synergism must be true
01:19:18: That's really muddled thinking Because we're not talking about What we're talking about when we talk about monergism and synergism
01:19:26: We're talking about something completely different here Other word, it's elsewhere using 2nd
01:19:32: Corinthians. What's a six? I think six one anyways We see you see that faith was working together with Synergistically his works and As a result of the works his faith was perfected
01:19:52: Perfected there is a this is the term right here to perfect and the scripture was
01:19:57: Fulfilled which says and Abraham believed God is reckoned him as righteousness and he was called a friend of God so you have the very same text that the that Paul quotes and He argues in Romans.
01:20:11: This is when Abraham was justified and Even makes the argument in chapter 4 was he justified in the state of circumcision or uncircumcision while uncircumcised so that he might be the father of all
01:20:27: Who likewise would be justified by faith is James even addressing that is he addressed addressing the point of justification?
01:20:36: method of justification No He is done discussing. However, that Abraham had true faith and it was able to demonstrate its existence and Therefore was justified
01:20:52: Abraham was justified in his claim to have faith not justified before God that happened in Genesis 15 6 as James says in 223 that's why he quotes it the fulfillment of that of the scripture its
01:21:09: Demonstration to the world comes years later in the offering of Isaac totally different issue
01:21:16: Than what Paul was addressing totally different issue than what Paul was addressing. So all of that then is the immediate context to the one verse out of James that Tim Staples referred the poor young lady to Who is now going to be trying to argue with her grandpa and I hope her grandpa's ready
01:21:39: Lord bless him James 2 24 you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone and You if you don't if you aren't ready to recognize that this is the only place where?
01:21:55: Luke ek pista osmana were pista osmana on faith alone That's the only place where that phrase appears in New Testament It's not by faith alone
01:22:02: If you're not ready for that Then you're not ready to be taken on Roman Catholic apologist or Mormons or anybody else who has a works based righteousness system you need to know that it's there and you need to know what came before it and To be able with confidence to say
01:22:19: I Agree, why are you reading James 2 24 into a topic that neither
01:22:26: James nor Paul? Whatever have allowed you to read into that's not what they're talking about. You are assuming
01:22:33: That the justified there is the same justified as the issue of law and works and everything else in Romans 3 and 4 and things
01:22:39: Like that and that is not what the preceding 10 verses would lead you to conclude.
01:22:44: Why are you doing that? is that your tradition and Take them back and ask them
01:22:51: If they've ever thought about what verse 14 is saying ask them if they've ever thought about what verse 18 is saying if they've ever thought about the difference between the said faith and a demonstrable faith the vast majority of them
01:23:07: They've just gone to this and said well, you know, there it is. There it is There's there's justification must be the same thing
01:23:12: Paul's talking about. So Paul must have been wrong That's not how you do exegesis and The irony is
01:23:24: Rome's Roman Catholicism has always
01:23:31: Roman Catholicism since the rise of what
01:23:36: Roman Catholicism truly is today, so I would say After the fourth ladder in Council, how's that?
01:23:43: We'll use that as a relatively good historical marker The Roman system post fourth ladder in Council has exercised an acidic destructive influence upon belief in the inspiration of the
01:24:07: Bible and After the
01:24:13: Reformation Jesuits, especially were more than willing to Basically say well, you can't really know what the
01:24:24: Bible originally said they attacked the issue of textual criticism Made huge blunders in the process in regards to Vulgate which they have since abandoned
01:24:35: But they attacked the sufficiency of Scripture in Textual criticism and in interpretation you need to have
01:24:43: Rome to interpret these things for you Blah blah blah without ever providing us with that inspired book of interpretation either
01:24:50: Now in reality they were sawing off the very limb they were themselves were sitting on when you think about it
01:24:57: But they didn't seem to mind to do that. They didn't seem to have a problem doing that Now the irony is there is as far as I can tell
01:25:07: There is no infallibly defined interpretation of James 224 from the Roman Catholic Church You would think by how many times they repeat it that there would be
01:25:16: But there isn't they're just simply well and and by Interpreting it the way that Tim Staples interpreted.
01:25:28: He's setting James at odd with odds with Paul. Did you notice the text he used Paul? Let's not talk about where Paul's talking about justification in Galatians 2
01:25:40: Let's go to where he's talking about how you live your life in Galatians 6 and overthrow what he said in Galatians 2
01:25:49: Yeah backwards Backwards, they don't do exegesis. They can't you have an external source of authority that tells you what this book says and So you just read the book in light of that.
01:26:04: You don't have to worry about the exegesis part That's not saying that Roman Catholics don't do exegesis because on some things
01:26:11: The Roman hierarchy actually teaches what the Bible teaches about something so there they can do exegesis there
01:26:18: But when it comes to other areas, they still have that freedom They still have that freedom. And so as I said if you want deeper information on this chapter 20 the
01:26:32: God who justifies you might want to might want to grab that and Hopefully it will be of use to you one last thing before we sign off on the program today
01:26:45: I've had a number of People pointing out to me. I've known this for months
01:26:51: I've mentioned it in social media for months but today Dr.
01:26:57: Albert Moeller over at the Shepherds conference his session
01:27:03: Was a absolutely shameless ripoff He's you know, he's he's gotten away with the theology matters thing all the time and Today he just made it very obvious That the dividing line is one of his favorite podcasts by naming his session
01:27:25: At the Shepherds conference the dividing line now, I've known about this since it was first announced
01:27:32: I don't know last year sometime everybody that first came out. Hey, look, he's ripping you off, you know, and you know what?
01:27:41: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and So I am just very very thankful that in this
01:27:53: Genesis 3 world Where we are seeking to promote human flourishing that Albert Moeller Is is using the dividing line and theology matters and everything else to help promote
01:28:11: Understanding from a Christian worldview perspective So, yes,
01:28:17: I am very very very Aware of all of all of that. I hope this has been useful to you.
01:28:24: We Lord willing. We'll be back with you Next week. I had somebody say well, how come you didn't do the
01:28:30: Ligonier thing? Oh Wanted you James chapter 2. What can I say and read some
01:28:35: Gnostic Gospels? We do what we do. We'll see if we can get there out of that. There hasn't really been that much
01:28:42: Chatter about it, but we'll see we'll see Anyways, thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.