John MacArthur on Ben Shapiro - Some of the Criticism has been LAME!

John MacArthur on Political Leadership and Biblical Justice

So I saw a few people criticizing the John MacArthur video with Ben Shapiro and you know at the end of the day I don't. See eye to eye with John MacArthur's perspective on a lot of different areas. Especially in politics and kind of the civil realm and things like that.

But you know, I recognize that this guy is super thoughtful way smarter than me a way better Communicator than me and all of that kind of stuff. And so I went into. I started watching this. I've only watched about 10 minutes of it, but I found it right up front the part that a lot of people were criticizing.

And there's others as well. So I'll probably get to them soon. But I thought that the criticisms that people were giving this were kind of unfair. I expected to disagree with him on a lot of what he said in this section.

But I really didn't so I wanted to play it real quick. And yeah, I'll tell you what.

I mean creator. Then your responsibility in any society is to make sure that God's moral standards are Heard. I can't force people to take those things but when it comes for example, second Samuel talks about Rulers are to be just and to fear God and not take bribes.

I mean that is what the Old Testament says. So yeah, that's that is what the Old Testament says. He's exactly right. And now I would probably apply that further than John MacArthur would. Maybe I wouldn't.

I don't really know. I mean, I've never asked him but I think I would to go further than he would on what that means. Rulers, we went through Psalm 2 this week. Rulers are supposed to obey God in every area.

They're supposed to be just. What's the standard of justice? I think John MacArthur would agree. The standard of justice is the law of God and what is you know, what are. What is how do we know what taking a bribe even is?

Well, we know that because of the Old Testament, you know. So so yeah I think some people kind of said that that he was saying that that we shouldn't care if our politicians are moral or not. That's not what he's saying at all.

In fact, he's saying the exact opposite here. Let's continue.

Moral Qualifications for Rulers

That means if I'm looking at a politician who has a history of being bribed who has no fear of God who is atheistic or practical atheistic. That's not a divine qualification that I can support.

Yeah, I agree with that. I would add to that list a politician who's cheated on his wife. Because as Doug Wilson said if you'll cheat if you'll if you'll if you'll bet if you'll what is it? What did he say?

If you'll double-cross your wife, I think that's what he said. You'll double-cross your wife. You'll double-cross anybody. So why would I expect anyone who's double-crossed his own wife his own flesh in other words?

And done something he said he wouldn't do to her. Why would I trust him to do something that he said he wouldn't do to me. You see that's the thing.

I am completely with John MacArthur here somebody for example who advocates the slaughter of babies. Which is murder by by any biblical definition any moral definition that is not a just ruler.

Yeah, you think I mean my goodness the fact that John has to say that Pastor MacArthur has to say that and there are people out there that are gonna be like Losing their minds that how dare he say that because this is the thing The the baby killing issue whether or not you think it's cool to kill babies.

That's like It's the easiest moral question anybody's ever been asked and if your politicians getting that wrong and yet you're still voting for him because you Think he's got a good economic policy. You've got to take a good look in the mirror.

I.

Don't know that is not a man of mercy. When Moses was selecting the rulers who would come under him in the book of Exodus.

The qualifications were very very clear. They had. Yeah, you know, my politician thinks it's cool to kill babies. But he's following the law of God better because he's having mercy on the poor and the oppressed.

Give me a break if you're really that stupid to think that I'm sorry. But you got you got it. You got to take a good look in the mirror that you're your favorite politician. Thanks is cool to kill children.

But yeah, yeah, he really wants to help out the poor.

Had to be just and they had to be moral and they had to fear God.

So as much as I can did you just hear that they have to be just they have to be moral. And they have to fear God. I have nothing to disagree with as a Christian. That's the kind of.

Leader that I want to see. That's the direction. I want to see a society go. It sounded like a theonomist. Oh. That's a joke. Or temporarily the benefit of that society. The immediate benefit of that society.

Ordered families are a tremendous common grace. Obedient children are a common grace. An ordered culture where people submit to the authorities as it talks about in in the New Testament. The powers that be are ordained of God.

God has ordained structure. So I want to vote for the structures that produce the most ordered society.

Choosing Leaders in a Fallen Political World

And so how do we distinguish in leadership terms? Obviously, we have a serious problem as religious people. I had a big problem personally in 2016 because the representative of the party to which I am an adherent typically and I've Voted straight-line Republican as long as I can remember the the leader of that party was somebody who well.

He stood for some of my values and has turned out to stand for many more my values than I thought he would in 2016. That on a personal level he doesn't just stop and say how awesome it is to see Ben Shapiro talking to John MacArthur.

This is awesome. And fulfill certain basic moral precepts about character about the necessity of Cleanliness and business dealings. About the the decency with regard to women for example as religious people.

How should we approach issues like that. About how to choose between? Candidates who may not be personally moral but may forward our priorities and.

Disengage completely. What should. What do you think the solution? I mean, it's it's a challenging reality. It's less challenging today than it used to be.

So so the first thing you need to do when you hear this answer This is where everyone kind of got upset about you have to understand. He's exactly right. This is a challenging reality because that People like me who would say, you know, you need to you know, have a moral ruler.

You need to have a just ruler. A lot of times we get caricatures saying we're looking for a perfect person and we won't vote for someone if they're if they're not Perfect, that's not the case at all. And so everyone has to make a judgment here.

You know, what what what is the standard that I'm gonna be using? I don't know about you. But I'll tell you one thing that definitely doesn't meet my standard. Someone who thinks that blacks and Hispanics should have more access to kill Children in the womb that definitely doesn't meet the standard.

Now, whatever else does meet that standard that's up to you. But if you're telling me that that's someone who says that that's okay to kill children in the womb. Little babies who have no defenses. I have I have a three-week-old upstairs.

That guy is Completely helpless. I I could do anything to this kid and nobody would ever know then and then you're telling me that three weeks ago It was totally cool for me to off that kid. I Of acceptability of not perfection again, you need to take a good look in the mirror Christian.

I understand why pagans do it because pagans don't have any code at all. I don't understand why you do it.

Because again, you have a party that advocates the killing of babies. I can't vote that. I don't care who. The other end of story.

I agree with him. End of story. So now we have to make the decision. So so there's one party where I just cannot vote for you because you are so immoral that you think it's cool that three weeks. Ago, my little son.

Noah, you could have often minutes. It's not even really a person. So that's a non-starter. So many of you Christians out there think oh, yeah. But you know, but they economics you guys are you guys have a lot to answer for for that.

Now now that that's a non-starter. Let's hear what John MacArthur says about the rest of this. The guy is.

You're looking in some ways at the lesser of two evils, but you always are in society anyway, because nobody is perfect.

The Presidency, Moral Authority, and the Lesser of Two Evils

Yeah, I agree. So nobody's looking for a perfect person. Neither am I look. I think that God's law is the standard and so I judge a candidate's Policies based on God's law and if they don't match up very well to God's law I don't vote for them.

Now other people's thresholds are different. But let me tell you what definitely doesn't meet the threshold. Someone who thinks it's cool and wants to have Hispanics and blacks and poor people to have more access to killing their children or maybe just because they have Down syndrome.

So what I'm looking for in a leader. And and yeah, I am fired up because this is ridiculous. John MacArthur is exactly right here may come down to a simple analogy If I'm gonna have a brain surgeon open my brain.

I'm really not too concerned about his moral life.

I would like to know I have a quibble with that because I actually kind of am now at the end of the day. If I find out that my brain surgeon is the best brain surgeon ever, but he cheats on his wife I might still go to him.

But the thing is morality does come into play because when while while an immoral evil sadist is opening up my brain. You know that probably want to know about that before he opens up my brain.

But it's a little quibble little quibble know that he's been in somebody else's brain and done the right thing whenever he's been there.

And that's where that's how and that's how. He he that's his nuance because he's saying look. Morality in general. I'm not so concerned with with my brain surgeon. But what I want to do is look at his past and say has he?

Operated brains before and has he done the right thing before. So when he has someone's brain open does his immorality cause him to do? Something wrong in the brain because then I don't want to have that brain surgeon.

But if he if if in general he's been you know General if he's been good with brain surgery, and he hasn't done anything immoral while he's opening the brain then I'm probably okay with that.

Let's let him continue, and he knows his way around. There's a certain skill set for leadership. There's a certain ability that people need to affect change and if you have a guy who.

Manifests the ability to do that. Way more style than I do. I gotta say this guy's a well-dressed man. The presidency is not a moral job.

It's not a position of moral authority. It never has been. We don't want to make it into that. Now you choose the best you've got which would be someone who does justice. Fears God. That is to say there's a transcendental ought that binds his heart an atheist.

That doesn't have that even the founders of America who were not Christians. They were deists knew God had to be in there somewhere because there had to be some kind of existential power that had.

Exerted the threat over people if they misbehaved so all I heard was the first part of that when people were criticizing this. They're like oh, yeah, he's saying the president's presidency is not a moral position.

It never has been oh my god. It's John MacArthur's a heretic. He's a racist, but did you finish the sentence? I mean my goodness he explained what he meant when I first heard that I had the same reaction.

I was like, yeah, I mean, but but obviously you just got done saying that justice is good. Not taking bribes is good and you want that in a leader then you're saying it's not a moral position. So that when I first heard it, that's what I thought I was like, oh, there's a little inconsistency there.

But then you let him finish the sentence and what he's saying Obviously is that we're not looking to the president to be our moral compass. In other words, we're not getting our morality from the president now.

He better be just he just said that he just said that. He better be uphold. Look. Look, let's let's let's go back and listen to him.

Does justice fears God. That is to say there's a transcendental he does justice and fears God.

That's what he's looking for. So he's saying look again. The president doesn't set morality. That's not controversial. I don't know. That's not controversial. Would I have worded it differently? Yeah, maybe I would have worded it differently, but I'm not the one being interviewed here.

You know what? I mean? And again, maybe I wouldn't have. I don't know. Listen when I'm when I'm talking to Ben Shapiro and his eyes are piercing through your soul the way his does I don't know what I would say.

I'm not saying John MacArthur was intimidated or anything like that. But the reality is he explained himself so you can't just take the soundbite and say oh Calm down my goodness. He explained himself.

He said that they need to be just they need to they need to uphold. You know got God's justice things like that. That's what he's looking for in a leader. So obviously he doesn't mean morality in the way you're thinking anyway.

Again, you know small quibble and I'm sure there's gonna be other things. I'll disagree with later. I heard some other sound bites, but you know what based on this sound bite. I'm not so sure the other sound bites are gonna be accurate representations of him either.

Anyway, hope this was helpful. God bless.