Aug. 7, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Mike Gaydosh on “The Life & Legacy of Edward Payson/Brother Bryan Mission”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listeners, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday on this seventh day of August 2015 and it's my honor and privilege to welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron my very first pastor as a born-again Christian when I was immersed in the waters of baptism about 30 years ago.

Pastor Mike Gaydosh was the pastor who plunged me beneath those waters and who was my pastor until in the late 90s approximately and he has remained a dear and close friend all the years since and it's my honor and privilege to have him back.

He is the founder and director of Solid Ground Christian Books and their website is solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com and Solid Ground Christian Books is one of the sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron radio, so we urge you to please, when you're ordering books, please try to utilize Solid Ground Christian Books as often as possible when they have what you are indeed looking for, especially if you know that we are promoting a book that has been published by Solid Ground Christian Books, then there'll be no mystery.

Just go to their website, solid-ground-books .com and order whatever it is we are discussing and it's my honor and privilege, as I said, to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Michael Gaydosh. Well, thank you, Brother Chris.

I.

Appreciate the opportunity once again to be able to speak with you and to be able to address some very important subjects as many years ago today. And we are going to be discussing.

During these two hours, the first hour we are discussing the life and legacy of Edward Payson, who was born in 1783 and went home to be with the Lord in 1827, and he is perhaps the greatest American minister of the first half of the 19th century, arguably at least.

And the second hour, 5 to 6 p .m. today, we are going to be discussing the namesake of the Brother Brian mission. And the Brother Brian mission has been in existence since 1940, serving the men of Birmingham in need of physical, spiritual, and emotional help.

And it's been my guest, Mike Gaydosh's honor to preach at this mission each week on Friday evenings for more than 10 years. And we are going to be discussing Brother Brian, the namesake of this mission.

If you have any questions that you would like to ask, not only regarding the two great men that we are discussing, whose lives and legacies we are discussing, but anything regarding solid ground Christian books in general, anything regarding great heroes of the faith or Christian literature, you may feel free to email us at chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

And you will also, this is some good news here for you, the first emailed question for the first hour, whoever writes that question that's good enough to be read on air, receives a free copy of A Legacy of a Legend, Spiritual Treasures from the Heart of Edward Payson.

And the first listener to send in an email with a question good enough to be read on air, the second hour receives a free copy of Religion in Shoes, The Life and Ministry of Brother Brian of Birmingham.

Say that 20 times twice, fast. And so obviously, if you are emailing us, please include your mailing address. And as always, we really look forward to receiving questions from listeners overseas. But typically, we restrict the free book giveaways to those in the United States.

So we apologize to those in Canada and those overseas. We cannot send out free books because the costs of the shipping charges for overseas mount up pretty quickly and are pretty exorbitant. And we are quite often these days giving away free books.

So we look forward to hearing from you nonetheless at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. And first of all, for those of our listeners who are listening to Iron Trepans Iron for the very first time, have not heard you yet on the program, Mike, why don't you give our listeners a little overview of Solid Ground Christian Books?

The Ministry and Mission of Solid Ground Christian Books

Christian books began 14 years ago. And the main purpose that we began was to bring back into print works that once were used of God's face of the earth. In many cases, they're books that had been bestsellers and God had used mightily in the in the 19th century, never saw the light of day in the 20th century.

And we've been able to bring some of those books back into print again for the first time in some cases in over 100 years. And but in more recent years, we have started to do a new book. And so we have now published about 350 different titles in the last 14 years.

And while it's a challenge to keep to keep the ministry going, God has continued to send us new. We ship out every week books to Australia, New Zealand to Singapore, and in many other far parts of the earth.

And we're very, you know, before we go into the very specific topic.

That we have for the first hour on Edward Payson, praying Payson, as he is fondly known. There are people, they say this with hymnals. And they say this with books. I've heard people visiting the former church I was a member of on Long Island.

And they say no wonder Calvinism isn't catching on. I mean, you people just are so dead. You're singing from these old hymnals with irrelevant lyrics. And there's nothing fresh. There's no excitement in the Holy Ghost.

And then you're pushing all these books by dead white guys from hundreds of years ago. And it's just irrelevant. And it's boring and all that nonsense that you hear from time to time. What do you have to say to people like that who think that voices from the past are irrelevant?

And keeping in mind, obviously, Solid Ground Christian Books even publishes new books by contemporary authors. And there are some wonderful, powerful, brilliant men saying things very relevant to the burning issues of our day, who are with us at this time.

But tell us something about the words from the past, both in the pages of literature and in song.

Well, I think that the, I mean, there are some points that people make when they seem to be literally stuck in the 1800s or 1700s, and really have lost the vibrancy of, for instance, some of the great new hymns that have been recently done.

Blessing of the Church in regards to music ended in the 1700s or 1800s. It would be foolish to ignore, it's foolish to ignore the fact that God and the Holy Spirit are, we need discernment to make sure that the things that we're singing are, but there is, you know, there is a chance some people make, willing to look carefully at ourselves and make sure that these things are not true.

The passage that your whole, I believe is a pass, Solid Ground Christian Books, and even our discussions today of these two... The concept of, you know, walking with wise men will be wise, is not only referring to our present, but it also relates to our in the past, whom we can relate to.

The most recent scripture that we have is nearly 2 ,000 years old, and yet we find no difficulty in reading and benefiting from the inspired scriptures. Inspired in the way, but what we are saying is that people...

And isn't it interesting, at least I find this, I don't know if you agree or not, but I find that the best things that are written today are usually refutations of popular theology today.

The first time I read something by a generation of men like John, I find that the men who speak most to the present are men who have been deeply rooted...

Well, here is a word from Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the great 19th century prince of preachers, that seems to be, with few exceptions, greatly loved spanning the denominational spectrum, even people that would have a lot of differences with him in theology uphold him as a hero.

And Charles Spurgeon, this is especially for those who believe that, I don't need anything but my Bible, and I'm just going to go off into the woods with my Bible, me, myself, and my Bible. And Charles Spurgeon said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own. You need to read. And that is just one of the many gems from Charles Spurgeon in regard to that subject, and it's the height of arrogance to think that you don't need to ever read, even though it is true, it's not essential for salvation that you read anything else but the Bible.

But the fact of the matter is, when you say, I don't need any books, you are claiming in arrogance, even if it's unconsciously, you're claiming in the height.

Of arrogance, I don't need a teacher. Yeah, that's exactly right. Because we've talked about people who would say, well, I only need the Bible, unless the pastor simply gets up and reads the Bible for 40 minutes.

He makes this, now the only difference, expounding the words, and a man putting those words into print is that he has an opportunity to be able to actually go back over and make sure that every word he says is accurate.

Many people do not know that the Spurgeon sermons that we have, that are bound in the volumes of the Metropolitan Tabernacle, those are not exactly verbatim the sermon that he preached. Because what Spurgeon would do is, and because he knew that his sermons were going to be printed and they were going to be distributed throughout the world.

In fact, his sermons were found in the New York newspapers the next week after he had preached them. He had a minuensis who would take down in shorthand, he would then take the shorthand and he would actually type it out, give it to Spurgeon.

Spurgeon would then go over every line, and if there was anything that he had said that he didn't feel was clear enough, he would cross it out and replace it, and then he would go through line by line until he got it exactly right.

And so that's how serious Spurgeon was to make sure that what was going to be put in print was something that he could stand behind, even more so than the actual preached sermon that he had given in the Metropolitan Tabernacle just the night before, or the morning before.

I've left you speechless, Chris.

I forgot that I had my mute button on because I noticed that when my mute button is on, you sound clearer in my headphones for some reason.

Okay.

But it also cuts down on the background noise in the studio here. And of course many of my listeners would hope that I forget to take my mute button off all the time. In fact, perhaps some of them even want a fire to begin in the studio here.

But obviously you chose the two men that you wanted to pay tribute to today because you believe that our listeners could gain much from hearing their stories and learning of their legacies. And neither of these two are very well known.

In fact, they're probably completely unknown to the majority of Christians. In fact, I don't even need to put the word probably. They are completely unknown to the majority of Christians, with the exception of perhaps a minority of Reformed believers.

But having said that, you believe nonetheless that Edward Payson, who as I said was born in 1783 and went home to be with Christ in 1827, you believe he is perhaps the greatest.

American minister of the first half of the 19th century. Well, he was, oddly enough, in today's with Elizabeth Prentiss. That's one of his daughters. And Elizabeth Prentiss is the author of the novel Stepping Heavenward.

She is the author of Stepping Heavenward, as well as Many Hymns, the most popular. He is now known as the father. In his day, the most popular man he was, in Portland, Maine, his congregation was not in the thousands.

There weren't churches in America. We are told that, I thought it was hundreds, but apparently thousands of people who named Edward related to him, but because they're known to be a man of God, his nickname, as you've mentioned, praying, he was known for.

He was a man and people have heard him preach. You recognize clearly he was preaching the word of God with power. But when he turned to prayer, there were men who were in his presence. They said that when you opened your eyes and found yourself back on the earth, you were greatly disciplined.

His life was called to be the path and revivalism. In 1858, he was ordained in 1880. The young men of the past, there were hundreds of men. They're not far from you in Pennsylvania. Every one of us, I have yet to exceed his desire.

Well, you know, that's amazing to have such accolades said about.

Edward Payson when he only lived to 44 years of age.

And yet, the ones who died when he was 30 years have died at a young age. Well, we have our first winner for the legacy of a legend, spiritual treasure from the heart of.

Edward Payson. I'm glad this person included their last name and address because his name is Mike, and I thought that you might be trying to prevent somebody from getting a free book. Mike from Fort Myers, Florida says,.

Hello, Mike. Thank you for your excellent bookstore. My question to you is this. How is it that you go about your research and discovering the very fine works of so many pastors and theologians of the past?

That's an excellent question.

Yeah, that's a good question. I've been asked that question many times, and my simple answer is I have, maybe for a dozen different reasons. One is I have books recommended to me by people that I respect that you've read, recommendations that way, or sometimes even without me even asking the question, people knowing that I'm Mike, have you ever considered publishing?

And then they give me one of the most famous is the Volume of Pastors, and that through the means of Steve Martin, who was pastoring at that time at Heritage Church.

He's also a wild and crazy guy, I understand.

Yeah, I was introduced to Steve Martin. I'll say, no, the Steve Martin I know is the funny one. Many times what I'll find in these old books will even have commendations or recommend so much. I've come across the book that blessed me many years ago.

Well, we're going to go to our first station break. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, we're out of the free books for the first hour, but we would still love to hear from you. So now our friends from overseas, feel free to write if you'd like, or from Canada, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Any question about our subject or on Solid Grain Christian Books, Christian publishing, author or book recommendations, anything involving Reformed Theology or Reformed Baptist distinctives, feel free to write us at chrisarnson at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

And please include at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the United States. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions as we continue our discussion with Mike Gaydos of Solid Grain Christian Books, right after these messages, so don't go away.

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Tired of bop store Christianity? Of.

Doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

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Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Mike Gaydosh, the founder and director of Solid Ground Christian Books.

Their website is solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com. And today we are discussing the life and legacy of Edward Payson. And according to our guest, Edward Payson is arguably the greatest American minister of the first half of the 19th century.

And that is no small compliment considering the giants of the faith that were alive during those days. And our email address, if you have a question for us, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

The second hour of our broadcast, we are going to be discussing the namesake of Brother Brian's mission, Brother Brian himself. And we are going to be letting you know exactly who he is and why he has become a legendary name in Birmingham.

And we hope that you join us for that second hour as well. And perhaps you even know someone who may be able to make use of the Brother Brian mission who is in desperate need of that type of an organization, or perhaps you would like to help support that organization.

But we look forward to you sending in your questions for that hour as well. And I do want to welcome again our latest sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron, who has committed to one year of sponsoring this program, and that's Providence Baptist Church in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

Pastor Mark Lukens has been a huge encouragement to me going back to the old days of Iron Sharpens Iron. He was a faithful listener to the program, and now his church, which is a Reformed Baptist Church in Norfolk, Massachusetts, now they are committing to one year of sponsorship of this program, and we thank them so much.

And their website is providencebaptistchurchma .org, providencebaptistchurchma for Massachusetts, dot o-r-g. And for all of our advertisers that you hear, if the ad is too quick for you to write down the website or the phone number that's announced, if you go to ironsharpensironradio .com, ironsharpensironradio .com, where you're most likely even listening to this program via live streaming, if you scroll down to the bottom, all of our sponsors have icons there that have hyperlinks to their own websites.

So all you have to do is click on those icons or those miniature display ads, and they will take you directly to each website that you're interested in. But anyway, we're discussing, as I said, Edward Payson, Mike, and if you could continue on why and how this man has become such a monumental figure of the faith, in your opinion, and obviously in the opinions of others, and why he has made such an impact on you,.

Your life, and your faith. I think that one of the things that I would like to be able to point out is, to your listeners, has had the three volumes of the life, and for many years, that volume is her father and his influence on her life.

To her dying day, she learned more about how he lived.

We do have an anonymous listener who writes to us that, since you have informed us that Edward Payson's nickname was Praying Payson, I was wondering if it would be all right to ask a question on prayer.

I have been troubled by the fact that I have to constantly bring up in prayer someone who has been very damaging to my life, and to the lives of my children, and because of the harshness of this individual, and the brutality of this individual, it is difficult for me to bring this person to mind, even in prayer, but I feel it is my duty, because the scriptures command us to pray for our enemies, and because of the fact that this person at one time had a vital place in my family.

Is it a duty of mine to routinely pray for this person, or may I dismiss this person from my mind, never to recall him to memory again, because of the brutal scars that I still carry with me to this day?

That's an interesting question.

I don't know that there is an absolutely definitive answer to that question. I do believe I would distinguish, first of all, between gathered prayer with his family, and private person. It might be more appropriate for him to pray for this individual in private.

At the same time, I can see value in bringing this person in prayer, a reminder of stability that we have, even as a fully youth, without me sitting to have him dominating my mind anymore. Yeah, I don't have the quote in front of me, but I remember, and perhaps you can confirm whether.

This is apocryphal or not, I have heard years ago that John Wesley had a very difficult marriage, and someone at a minister's gathering made a joke about Wesley's wife in his presence, and he said something to the effect of, you know, dear sir, I believe that my wife has probably been a more beneficial spouse than anyone's here, because my wife keeps me on my knees in prayer more than anything else in my life.

Something like that. Yeah, I've heard that same one. I.

Didn't recall it being Wesley. I'm talking by faith. We do have a listener in Tuscaloosa,.

Alabama, who wants to know if you actually have a retail outlet that can be visited,.

Or is this strictly mail order? Well, we're primarily mail order, but we do...

Going back to Edward Payson, since you and I have done a few shows on God's providence, providence very often, if not most often, shapes a man and has profound impact on his life. It is used as an instrument by God to bring sinners to repentance and faith in Christ, and it's used to strengthen the faith of those who are already believers, and to teach us vital lessons.

What are some more of the profound occurrences in the life of Edward Payson that shaped him to be the man that you would call one of the greatest, if not the greatest, minister in America in the earlier part of the 19th century?

Well, I would say, really, what we're talking about, 70 years from it, was the whole hemisphere. I want a whole heart forever swallowed up, much as I know, rejoicing. That's some powerful stuff. He was a man who...

Well, we are going to be going into our second hour and switching subjects to.

The namesake of Brother Brian's mission in Birmingham, Alabama, and if you would like to email us a question, you could be eligible to win a free copy of Religion and Shoes, The Life and Ministry of Brother Brian of Birmingham.

And that is for the first listener who sends us a question that we read on air. It has to be good enough to be read on the air. And Mike of Fort Myers, Florida, you are not eligible since you already won a book.

So anybody else other than Mike of Fort Myers, Florida, can win this book. And please, obviously, give us your mailing address, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com is our address. And please, we would love to hear from our Canadian and overseas listeners.

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And we always enjoy hearing from you. And we would love to hear from you today. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com is our email address. So don't go away. We're going to be right back with Mike Gaydosh and our discussion on Brother Brian of Birmingham.

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And his family. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you've just tuned us in, our guest for the last hour has been Mike Gaydosh of Solid Ground Christian Books in Birmingham, Alabama. Their website is solid-ground-books .com.

Solid-ground-books .com. And we were discussing the life and legacy of Edward Payson during the first hour, who Mike believes and obviously many people who he respects also believe was the greatest American minister in the earlier half of the 19th century.

And we are now switching over to the life and legacy of James Alexander Bryan, known as Brother Bryan, who is the namesake for Brother Bryan Missions in Birmingham, Alabama. And before we even go into the life of James Alexander Bryan, which is the primary topic for our discussion today, why don't you tell us something about the Brother Bryan Mission, where I know that you have been preaching every week on Friday nights for the last decade.

For more than a decade. Yeah, the Brother Bryan Mission is in downtown Birmingham. It's been there since the early 1940s. And it was in honor of to feed the poor was to unique things about Brother Downtown is that they have the men live there, 70 to 75 men, that they must attend.

And every Friday night, we've been doing chapel for them. And I do the Friday twice a month. On Sunday evening, we serve a meal to Sunday evening, just once a month on Saturday, nine times a month.

Yeah, when I was, they called them students, or if you want to call a resident of an alcohol and drug recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, Hebron colony ministries, where I went due to my own addiction to alcohol.

And sometimes I hate to use the word addiction because it almost sounds clinical, like it's softening the fact that it was a wicked sin. But I was guilty of the sin of drunkenness, perpetual unrepentant drug drunkenness until I entered through the doors of that wonderful ministry.

There were people from all walks of life there. There was a veteran of the New York Jets football team from I believe the 80s, perhaps a part of the 90s who was there. There were people who were seasoned military officers.

There were hillbillies. There were just all types of people, professional people down to your deep woods, moonshine making, toothless hillbilly. You know, there were all kinds of folks at that place. Would the Brother Brian mission be a temporary home for a wide spectrum of people.

Like that? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. There's all different races are there. And the educational background, some of these men are brilliant men there. Some of them have owned businesses. Many of them have owned businesses, lost them, have had beautiful families, have lost their families because it's very tragic on the one hand, but at the same time to see how God is beginning to put men's lives back together.

And we've been able to see men be able to be reunited with their time so many times in the past. And so yeah, a great variety of men to men history in Birmingham that ministers to the ladies. And so let's get into the life and legacy of James Alexander.

Brian before you get too much into his early history and so on. Did he start the Brother.

Brian mission or is it just named after him? No, no, no. The mission actually started right around the time he was dying and it really did start. It was influenced by him and here and it is named after him.

I've traveled all over the city of Birmingham and even to other cities. I've become sort of a living historian of Brother Brian's life and I've been out of the Brian mission to encourage churches to supply.

I'm excited. He said, I always say it 35 times a week. By the start of his bed, he said, wow, that's the way that's the way he began on the hill pieces against the windows as they saw this elderly man on his hands and knees in twenties to hold the most love and incredible minutes and why he had a love for the black at a job for I can't do any.

Harry looked at my father and said, Master John, do you think I would leave you here? Sure. The engine we're told was religion. Wow. Wow. That's some powerful stuff. I had no idea before this interview that I'd be hearing what should be the, the written screenplay for a movie.

I was thinking the very same powerful movie it would make. Wow. This is all powerful stuff. What what theological perspective did did Brother Brian come from? Under the men. Wow. One of the reasons I asked you what his.

Theological background was, even though I'm pretty familiar with the fact that Solid Grand Christian Books pretty much exclusively deals with the writings of those who believe in the doctrines of grace.

But because of the fact that I think there's a lesson here, a very valuable and powerful lesson to reform folk who very often confine the proclamation of their faith to the cigar smoke filled parlors of sophisticated little discussions on theology and over snifters of brandy and so on.

And it seems to me, and I don't want to insult any of my fellow Calvinists and reform brethren who do really get down to the nitty gritty and dirt and sweat of going out into the inner cities, reaching out to those who are viewed as the scum of society, if you will.

I'm not calling them that. I'm just saying that that's the way they're viewed. People like prostitutes and drug addicts and alcoholics. And from my own experience, now, once again, I apologize to those who are reformed who are doing ministry in these arenas.

But in my experience, the vast majority of it.

Seems to be done by charismatics and Pentecostals. Well, I think that it's sad that you're probably right about that. I know that a dear friend of mine, Shane Jackson, who you know is blind, there are very few reformed people at all that reach out to the blind.

You know, the cults will reach out to the blind community, but reformed ministry and for the lost. And nothing would stop him from seeking to get to people with the gospel. I think, is the first half hour about up now?

Yeah, this would be a good time for us to take a break. Just remember exactly where you left off, and we will pick up where you left off right after these messages. And I just want to remind our listeners that you can email us a question to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And we have one more book to give away, and we look forward to hearing from you with your question. That only is eligible to our North, or actually our American listeners, not our North American listeners, because we are, sorry, we're not sending any books to Canada.

So, because of the prices that have accumulated for all of the book winners and some of them who are overseas and in Canada, it really can.

Accumulate very quickly. Hi, I'm Mike Gallagher. Support for Iron Sharpens. Iron Radio comes from Thriven Financial, where faith and finances connect for good. Thriven helps its members be wise with money and live generously.

Nearly two and a half million Christians count on Thriven to help them protect their families and strengthen the communities where they live, work, and worship. To learn more about what makes Thriven unique, contact me at 717 -254 -6433.