How Should Christians Vote? (Special guest Sarah Workman) | Season 5 Episode 5

So everybody, we are here to talk about should, well no actually first, how should Christians vote? I'm Josiah, this is Sarah everybody, say hi. Hi Sarah. Hi Sarah. Now Sarah say hi. Sarah's husband was on two weeks ago in probably the fourth coolest episode we've ever done.

For sure. The prodigal son one. That was excellent. And this is Anna, and we are here to talk about how should Christians vote? But before we do that, oh by the way, the Halloween episode last week, I kind of liked the Scooby Doo outfit.

I didn't bring it back this week, but I kind of liked the way I looked about it. But we did, how did, I didn't even finish watching it yet. Yeah, we stopped it and I said it got too hot, just a little stop and we came back.

Does it look like we just magically changed clothes?

I honestly didn't make it that far. I did not want to watch myself on that episode. Why? Because you were dressed as a lion? No, an Ewok, excuse you. No, I just, I was actually talking to April and Chris about this downstairs and I was like, you know, I really, I just did not want to watch the episode.

And they're like, why? And I just felt like I was, sounded like an idiot, frankly, and they're like, oh my gosh, no. Because you were dressed as animals. No, it was like the whole conversation about Halloween.

I was like, I just felt like I was an idiot and Chris and April were like, no, you make it so relatable and you're so soft-spoken and you're like the best compliment to Pastor Josiah because he's a sore loser and you're not.

So just to be clear, to make you feel better, they used my demise. I just put words in April's mouth. Let's put it this way. I was actually here and you did great. So I don't have to make up other stuff.

Well, I appreciate that. It's not because I was a sore loser.

They were giving me encouragement and I told them, I was like, I was honestly going to go to Pastor Josiah this week and be like, hey, I think I could do more behind the scenes stuff. And, but yeah, so, and that was like Donovan said, when they went to Camper E last weekend, they had a couple that they were talking to about the podcast and that they really enjoyed the podcast and everything.

So I was like, okay, I hear you, God. I guess I'll stay. But no, we love it. So the Halloween episode was fun to film. Yeah. It was very hot. I don't have to bring it back.

I'm already hot now. I am. I can be loud and a leader, but I am not a podcast person. That's you. I'm just here to kind of just be the loud mouth.

And then, you know, Sarah, you fill in a lot of our time with your talking. So it's good. Sarah won't shut up. So now she's here.

So now we're, now we're all here. All right. Before we get into a, how should Christians vote? We have a, would you rather, right Dalton? Low? We got one.

All right. You got your low mic? Yes. The low mic. All right. So here it is. Would you rather go shoeless for a month or no socks for a year? Sandals are not an option. So barefoot, you mean? Barefoot is not an option either.

Well, hold on. Hold on. I'm confused. Oh, okay. Shoeless. Only socks. With socks. So you can only wear socks for how long? A month. A month. Or wear shoes with no socks for a year? Same shoes? Eh, that's up to you.

No, okay. Not the same shoes.

Yeah. Ooh, that would rub blisters. With my job, I gotta wear shoes.

And if I'm walking on the pavement in socks, ugh. I would do...

Give me socks for a month. I think that I would do without... Have fun in public restrooms. You said without socks in your shoes? Like, so wearing no socks with your shoes? I would do that. Because I have one pair of tennis shoes that, like, I don't mind wearing barefoot.

Yeah, I see. And I could do that for a month or whatever.

I could maybe wear them tiger foot or lion foot. I couldn't wear them barefoot. Yeah. You hear that?

Yeah. Nothing. She loved it. She was good. You just laughed at it! No, I was laughing that no one was laughing at you. I was laughing because no one was laughing.

So... I was trying to find out, like, is there a brand? Like...

So I'm just... Alright, I'm gonna say, give me... I'll just walk around in socks for a month. That's annoying, but I'll do it. What about you? Oh, shoes. I can't. I work with blood. I can't. So you're gonna wear no socks for a year?

With shoes, yeah. I would get blisters.

Man, gosh. I walk around in Midtown. Like... Well, and then the needles that you work with. She's a tattoo artist, by the way. You're not some drug addict somewhere. And the needles, I jump over, man.

Yeah. Just go... In your foot. Go what? That was great. And drip down into my... Alright. Dalton, what do you say?

What do you say, man? Come on. I would just wear socks. Just socks? Just socks. That's what I'm doing. Hey, are we tight and still winning? Yes. Hey, we're focused, man. Come on. Thank you. Thank you for the update.

Now I can focus. What about you? I would do the sock thing, just because a month, I can endure just about anything. But a year? That's going to get old real quick.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'm the same way. But man, I'll tell you. You know when you're walking barefoot outside, and you're doing great, and life's great, and you're drivewaying, but then you step on that one sharp rock?

It's like that Lego. That one on your heel? The Lego of the outside. Yeah. Oh, Dalton has changed his mind. He's going, no socks. Give me the shoes. You're going to get blisters while I play basketball.

Good luck. You're going to do what? Have to work. Oh, yeah. Work and lay in asphalt with no shoes? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. If I didn't have to work, I'd be like, oh, we're stuck. You'd lose a month of work. That's why I'm like, I don't know. I could go without socks. I did that in college. And I'm like, I have to go grocery shopping.

I'm not going to Kroger or Walmart. I did that in high school for a couple weeks to see. I know a guy. I would fit in at Walmart without shoes. I know a guy who's been in a public restroom barefoot. Yeah, me too.

I saw him in the mirror this morning. Oh, stop. Why?

I had to. But where were your shoes? If it was an emergency, I can get that. Were you on a road trip emergency? Yeah. And they were back in the car. And I had to go inside.

Sarah, are you with me? Oh, I've been in lots of places with no shoes. Sarah Workman agrees with me. Your opinion is of less importance. That's OK. Unless you don't think that it is. Speaking of which, as we go into the topic today, we have a little bit of a different spectrum of political opinion up here on the table today, which is totally cool.

The question is, how should Christians vote? Anna had Sarah and I take a political question survey thing. Would you share the results of that survey? Sure. So let me... Sorry, my phone.

It's a little complicated. It's an Android, not an iPhone like the rest of y 'all. That's OK. So I'll go with... I'll do my results first.

And I may or may not have done this like 10 minutes before we started recording. Even though I sent it to him days ago.

And I apologize. What else do you have to talk about? It's fine. It's fine. You tertiary apologized, so it's fine. So I had the impression that I was more right-leaning than I actually am. You know, being a conservative Christian, I would self-identify.

I was actually right-authoritarian.

Tell them the four options. The vertical axis is authoritarian, libertarian.

Yes, and then you have left and right. As in liberal conservative. Right. And correct. Right. So I was authoritarian right. Pastor was authoritarian right, but he was further right than I was. You were at a 7, and then I was at a 2 .38.

7 out of what? I think 10. I think is the scale. All right. Because it just gives me the values. So like here's the middle. Yeah. So there's 10 left, 10 right. I'm on right. Yes. So that's almost all the way.

About to say, yeah, you're almost all the way, and then that's where I am.

So like I'm a little harder to be. Sorry, guys. Yeah, I try a little harder.

I almost made it. So there's 20 spots, 10 left, 10 right, and I'm on 17 out of 20 if you want to think about that. Yeah, sure. Dang it.

I was so close. And then Sarah is left libertarian, and she's at a negative 2 .25. So we're almost like at the same. So she's almost in the middle. Yeah. Yeah, she's almost at the middle, but we're almost on like the same distance apart.

She's left two, you're right two. Yeah, and so we're almost the same distance apart, just in the opposite direction. Even up and down. How far down is she? She's like 2 .77. On the libertarian side? Yes.

And you're on the? I'm on the authoritarian, and I'm 1 .38. Okay, all right. So it's like we're like literally diagonal from each other. And then I'm all the way over. Yeah, you're all the way over there.

By myself. Alone. Sorry, I'm normally by myself on this show.

But like I said, my husband was not as right leaning.

As I thought he would be. No, it's basically people like to pick on me and always choose the opposite side of me. I'm normally by myself on this show.

I'm going to be on your side this whole time. Really? Even though you're on the complete opposite side of me. Just for this podcast. No matter what you say, I'm down.

I'm going to be so. You don't have to do that. Oh, it's going to be awesome and weird. You don't have to do that. Lowell literally bought a mic for the podcast just so he could chime in anytime he disagreed with me.

That's why he has the Lowell mic. That's amazing. Who says no? You're not on the mic. Sorry, I can't hear you. How should Christians vote? The first question we have to ask is, should Christians vote at all?

Obviously, when we read the Bible, the writers of the Old and New Testament were not living in a democracy as we know it in the United States, at least. So that question is obviously not directly answered.

But I think we have enough to at least go off of should Christians be involved in any sense in government. If y 'all don't mind, I kind of want to open this up with Scripture. Of how Christians did interact with the magistrates, if y 'all don't mind.

So just think about it this way. God created different, I can't say this word, spheres? Spheres. Thank you. To operate. He creates different federal headships. Family unit, the man is the federal head.

In a nation, in a government, the magistrate, the president, king, whatever you want to call that person is the federal head. There's a lot of examples of this. The church, its federal head is Christ, and then there are under-shepherds that are pastors.

But Christ is obviously the actual head of the church. And they're all in these different spheres. Church, government, family unit. Well, God has given each of them different jobs and different authorities to do that job.

In the book of Romans and in Peter, God tells us that the purpose of government, y 'all ready for this? Is to reward good-doers and punish evil-doers. That's what government's supposed to do. To reward good-doers and punish evil-doers.

That is the divine job for government. That's what they're supposed to do. That's what the book of Romans says. That's what 1 Peter says. So, here's an example. And the Bible says we're to, as long as they are operating in that sphere, we're to obey.

We're to obey. The Bible says there is no governing authority, magistrate, king that God has not ordained to be there at the same time. When that governing authority, magistrate, king tells you to do something that goes against what God has already revealed, the Bible gives us a clear answer to that.

That happened to Peter and John and they were arrested for it. And when asked to give a defense, they said in Acts chapter 4 and 5, we must obey God rather than man. We must obey God rather than man. I think of it like, y 'all remember iRobot?

And it has three laws. It will never harm somebody and then law 3 is it always has to obey unless that contradicts law 1. So, we are to obey the governing authorities unless that contradicts rule 1, which is we must obey God rather than man.

And at that point, we are supposed to tell them no. And whatever that comes in. Here's an example of, I guess we'll call it a citizen who is a Christian speaking out to civil magistrate. Let's call it a politician.

Because that's what it is. We have King Herod. This is John the Baptist. This is Matthew 14. We have King Herod. And King Herod is... Now, if you know anything about the Herods, there's a lot of them in the Bible.

They are a weird family with a lot of incest and crazy stuff going on. So, I'm going to try to explain this the best I can. Okay. Herod's brother is married to his niece. Okay. Herod... His... Philip's wife, who is married to her uncle, Philip, leaves Philip and starts shacking up with Herod, her other uncle.

Okay. And John the Baptist is looking at Herod and like, this is wrong on so many levels. Yeah, dude, what the heck? You're with your niece, who's not your wife, who's another man's wife, and she's living with you.

You remember that whole story where Herod... It's later in this chapter where Herod wants to kill... I mean, where they want to kill John the Baptist, so the woman's daughter dances for Herod. That was his great niece.

Yeah. And he was so pleased. Yeah. Yeah. John... So I'm in verse 1 of chapter 14. At that time Herod the Tetrarch heard about the fame of Jesus. He said to his servants, this must be John the Baptist.

He's been raised from the dead. I didn't understand that. So Jesus is doing a bunch of stuff. Right. Herod's already killed John the Baptist. So Herod said, this must be John the Baptist raised from the dead because Jesus is doing all these miraculous signs.

Okay. And then Matthew is telling the story of how Herod killed John the Baptist. It's a flashback. Okay. You know how all modern shows do flashbacks? That's what Matthew's doing here. I was so confused,.

And I was just like, I don't remember him being raised from the dead. Like, what are they talking about? Herod's assuming that.

Yeah. Okay. I got you. For Herod had seized John and bound him and put him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife, because John had been saying to him, so ongoing, repeated times, publicly, it is not lawful for you to have her.

Obviously, that's a euphemism, to have her. Right. Okay. So this is John publicly, out loud, repeatedly saying, that's not right to the king. And he's saying, that's not right. That's our example from John the Baptist to publicly rebuke, not to mention Herod was supposed to be a Jew.

So he should have known better, right? This violates at least three laws. Living together, not married, someone else's wife, your niece. Right? So gross. Yeah, very much so. And there's a whole other story with this.

So John the Baptist feels the right to speak out against the civil magistrate. So there's example one. At the same time, this is one that I've internally struggled with before, but it's a fact. Y 'all remember when they asked Jesus, is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar?

Oh yeah. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. What did Caesar use that money to do? Kill. Kill, pillage, rape, destroy. You know, I look at taxpayer-funded abortions. Just for one example. Jesus's basic answer to that is I'll deal with him.

You do what I told you to do. That's Jesus's basic answer to that. At any rate, there's just a few pointers. So is there a time to disobey the civil magistrates? The answer to the Bible is clearly yes, but not because you disagree with the speed limit sign.

Like you often did in Oakland. So is this back on Josiah again?

Is that what we're doing here again? Y 'all see what I'm talking about? That wasn't even required to tell the story.

I think it's a Shipley thing because I was behind your sister on the way. You see this? Why are you shaking your head yes? It's a family thing. It's a family thing because I was behind Ashley on the way to church last Sunday.

And I told her. Yeah, it is. It's true. And I told her, I said, you were speeding down the highway. She's like, I always do that. And I said, you've never gotten pulled over down there? And I was like, you're brave.

There's a thing called female privilege. It has to do with getting speeding tickets, but that's a topic for another. I will wait for someone to counter me on that one. I'll wait.

The only time I was pulled over is because my husband's taillight was out. No, it doesn't.

That doesn't work for me in Cordova. Yeah, well, it doesn't work for me no matter what. Oh, well, I mean, I have it in Midtown.

Because you're a white male. In Midtown, they don't blink twice out there. They're like, I'm going to need to search your car.

I don't do that anymore. I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in probably seven or eight years. Really?

If you count the ticket, the only ticket that I got was from one of those cameras because I ran the red light. And someone's like, you don't have to pay those. And I'm just like, but I know I ran the red light, so I'm going to pay that.

Yeah.

I did wrong. We could go into a whole thing about me being pulled over nine times for tags. In fact, you know what? I will for a moment, because this is this. OK, let me explain something to you. I remember this story.

Used to, when President Obama was president, we had, during his cash for clunkers thing, it was during that same time, but obviously it was before then, too. Y 'all remember when we had to, here in Memphis, Shelby County, pass inspection to be able to get your tags?

So you had to pass inspection to have the privilege to pay $114 to put the sticker on your license plate.

So you're paying an extra charge to get your charge. No, no, no. The inspection was free.

Oh, was it free? There's two of them. There's the big one on Appling and I -40, and then there's another one, I guess it was closer to downtown, I'm trying to remember. I think that we had to pay for that in Mississippi.

Anyway, yeah, in case you're wondering about that, I did it because I had to. It's kind of what we were just discussing, but do I think it's not right that I had to go get my car inspected by a government official to pay $114 to have a sticker on my license plate?

Yeah, I got a problem with that.

But didn't they not pass your inspection? I'm getting there.

Oh, okay, so you're I failed inspection because my truck didn't meet the emissions requirements under that president. I was 17. I poured every dollar I had to in that truck. I tried. I remember that truck.

It was not a They used to sell this stuff at all that was uncalled guaranteed to pass.

Did you unplug your battery and plug it back in before? I sure did. I sure did. That's how I passed every year. I sure did. I had never had a car that could have passed emissions. That's so funny. Then I got smart, and if it was a car before, I think, 70-something, they wouldn't make you.

So I just started buying it,.

Getting super old cars. I had a 92. Yeah. So they gave me the sticker that said, you failed inspection. I would get pulled over. He would come to write me a ticket. I'd show him the things that I'm trying.

He would write me a ticket and say, you have 30 days to get past inspection. I would spend all my money to try to get the engine to run with less emissions. I'd go. I'd fail again. I probably Me and my brother got pulled over nine times that year.

It ended up being a thorn.

Instead of what they were trying to do with it, which was to protect the environment. Well, that's where you and I I don't think that's what they were trying to do. I think they were trying to get money,.

And they succeeded a lot for me. But at any rate, let's pretend that they were actually doing it for the sake of the environment. Well, that was what we were being told. That's what we were being told, yes.

I will say that since that's gone away As they flew in their planes that put out way more emissions than my 92, don't even get me started on that.

Yes, I do agree with that. I will say, though, that Memphis streets have been so much worse since they've stopped making the cars go through. Because I feel like nowadays there's just people on the streets with cars that are like, no bumpers.

I mean, just the streets themselves are so It makes me sadder.

But at 17, not all of us could afford a 2012 or whatever year it was. I can't even afford I have a 2010.

Don't test me with years of cars. I've got every No, no, no, no, no. No, because I had a 95 Infinity for my first car. It's a 2000 something. I buy used cars. That's okay. Well, I'm saying that I buy the older ones because I'm like, you know, it's like $1 ,000 cheaper versus this other car.

My car is older than Dalton. Yeah, it is older. My car is a 95. Oh, it's as old as me. Is that your birth year? Yeah. 95. Me too.

And my baby. Lying is next week. Oh, sweet. I am real good at that. I gotcha. So I was born good at that. When we look at the question of should we vote, what's your initial gut reaction to that, Anna?

Yes. So forget about the candidates in place. In general, should we vote? Should we vote? Yes. Okay. I would feel, for me, it would be disrespectful to Christians in Iran and North Korea if I didn't. That might just be me.

I was like Also, all the Americans that fought for that. Oh, my goodness. Right, the privilege to be able to And that's what made me start because I, for a while, did stop voting because I was having such a hard time after I got saved.

Well, I understand that. I was like, there's no right answer. There's nothing. So I just stopped. And then I just kept like, I was like, I'm not doing it anymore. And then I just kept feeling like, like I kept reading it because I love history.

So I kept reading all this stuff and I'm like, all these people fought so hard. The least I can do is sit down and to try to figure out what the best way to parse this out is. And it's not fun.

And I think it's your civic duty as an American citizen to I agree. You know, like you said, people fought for it. And so it's like I agree.

And if I may say one thing, and this is probably what a lot of new Christians don't understand, but even old Christians, I could open this book and never stop reading how we should care about who's in charge.

Isaiah, Jeremiah, first Kings. I mean, when they elected kings, if you want to use the word elect, when they appointed leaders, no matter where you go in the Bible, just think about the qualifications God has for someone to be a pastor of a church.

The list is like that long. The point is, and I'm not saying a pastor is the same as a president. I misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm saying we should care about who is leading us. It seems to me that someone who votes in no scenarios ever does not care about who is leading us because in their mind, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't make a difference. But I think the answer to that would be, and it never will if people like you, you know, so I think we're saying in general, the answer is yes, they should. Yes? So the next question is how?

Now there's a lot to that question. So just a few pointers. So what are some non-negotiables that, for example, I could never vote somebody that supports X. What do I do if someone morally is living like this, but their policies support this?

In other words, morally, should I only ever vote for a Christian? You know, someone's asked me that before. Or what if I've got somebody who morally is not closely associated with what Christians should be, but their political policies happen to be in line with this more than the other.

What do I do with that? Should I look to the president to be a Christian ethical example, or should I look at them as somebody who will promote more policy that will produce more godliness, even if they don't intend for that?

How do we deal with that? So we gotta deal with that. What are some thoughts that come to your head? What are some things, and maybe there are none, but what are some things in y 'all's brains that are non-negotiables?

Either the person I'm voting for has to have this, or the person I'm voting for can never have this. What are some non-negotiables? Do you have one? I was about to say, because if you do,.

I'll let you go first. I was like, let me chew on it. Okay. My biggest struggle was, especially with the last election, with Trump and Biden. Yeah. I think that was a lot of people's struggle. Yes. Because Trump, you love him or hate him, he did a good job with the country.

We had good jobs, the economics. He did a good economic job? He did, and he's a businessman, and so he was able to get that done.

Sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted you. That's what this whole podcast is about. This is the discussion. Well, that's the thing. I see, because I'm older now, and I've seen multiple presidents, and I will say, as a private person, like when a Republican's in, it does seem like their economy feels better, but I also have always wondered how much of that is left over from the president that worked to fix it before.

Because I always wonder In other words, with a four-year system, it's hard to tell who to give credit to. Well, that's a problem I've always asked, and I've asked so many people, because people will be like, oh my gosh, when so-and-so was, it was just amazing.

And then I'm like, yeah, but that president that was there before had all these people coming in, and they were doing all this stuff to get the economy going. Or they change a bunch of stuff.

And get rid of And it takes a long time for it to take in. Or Trump came in,.

And he got rid of a lot of stuff, or vice versa. And so what is Well, my struggle with the whole thing was, my husband and I call, well, I call him a donkey to be kind. You know what I'm meaning by that?

Too clear. We're not talking about your husband. We're talking about the president. The donkey. Yeah, okay, okay. You don't call your husband that, right? No. We'll have another podcast later. No, no.

I love you, honey. No, but we, I refer to, you know, Trump as a donkey. Even though he did good things, like, he's kind of a donkey. And I was telling my husband yesterday, I said, and Trump was for abortion like up until like six or seven weeks.

I'm like, I have a problem with that, because he claims to be a Christian. And I'm like, so that, that was difficult for me. And I'm like, okay, since he's running again, like I told my husband, I said, I don't know what I'm going to do.

And he's just like, are you serious? And I'm just like, I really, I don't want to do something because someone else impressions me to do it or vote. And I said, I want to know why I'm voting for this person and like pray about, like actually pray about it.

Because the first time I voted, I was, what I was, it was 2016 was my first election. So I was like 21 at that point. And so it was my first election, like really didn't know. I was just kind of going like with what I saw on TV and like making my decisions and whatever.

And so with this election, I'm like, I want to be more intentional, but it's just, it's so hard because like you said, you have different candidates who say they're a Christian, but then their actions speak differently.

Even though, like you said, his policy, like he, his policies were good. I think like you said. And he did do some, like I loved what he did for the vets. Like there were things he did. Like I did, like, I did really try to be like, this is our president.

And that's the thing. I'm not a fan of Biden. I'm not a fan of everything that he's done with our country, but he's still our president and he still needs to be respected. Like you said, that's what God commanded us to do as Christians.

And so just being more intentional with voting and actually doing research. But like you said, it's like, how do you know if they're a Christian or not? It's like, you can only judge them based off of their fruits.

That's all we have. And so, I don't know. It's just like, you don't want to make the wrong decision, but it's like, I don't know, the Electoral College and everything. I'm like, I really feel like it doesn't make a decision.

Like I feel like the local elections make more of an impact than your federal, like your, the main election does. And I don't know. So it's kind of, I think that one's really important. I think all of the elections are important, but if you really want to vote, I think you should vote in your local elections because those have weight in the presidential election.

So, not to discredit everything you just said,.

Because that was beautiful. Did I not answer your question?

So what are the non-negotiables?

I'm so sorry. My non-negotiables would be, and it's like, I'm sure every president. And you don't have to have one. Abortion would be one. In what way? If it's allowed at all, because I'm. You can't vote for that person.

No. And so that's my thing, and it's like, and it's such a struggle because like, what if every candidate, like even if they're the independent candidates, or you know, like all the little names at the end, like Kanye West was one of the little names last election.

It's like, what if all of them do that? And it's just like, okay, well then, I don't know. It's like, I couldn't vote for somebody for that. I think that would like, Well, if you're going to have a non-negotiable, that's a pretty good one.

That would be my only non-negotiable, but there are other things like, I don't know if we're being like completely honest, like saying things that we're for or against in this podcast episode, but I'm free to discuss them, or like the border.

I don't think it's our responsibility to take care of people outside of this country who are coming in illegally. Like not talking about refugees and things like that who are actually allowed to come over.

The church should be responsible for that, not our government. And so, it's like there are certain things that like I don't prefer, like Nikki Haley is for like the war in Ukraine, and like all of this stuff, and I'm just like, I just really don't think we need to be involved actually.

So you're probably not going to get my vote. So number one, Abortion, but then like it's just other things that are not non-negotiables, but they're just like, I don't prefer that. So that's up at the top for you.

Other things are important, but not on that level. Right.

All right. That's the only one that's sticking out in my mind right now. I think for me, anything that takes things from children. Yeah. Like a while ago, we were voting about like the food for like kids to keep like breakfast at school, and they were talking about getting rid of it.

I was losing my mind. How dare you? Like that's how we ate growing up because we didn't grow up with a lot. And so I'm just like, so you're going to do all these things, and you're going to go to war, and you do all this stuff, but you're going to let your children starve.

Are you kidding? So that was my like, like once they're, I really struggle with like littles, and older people, and mothers like. People who need to be taken care of. That's the people we're supposed to be taken care of.

Like that's the people we were told to take care of, and we don't, and it was the church's job, but I think that we as a people thought that the government would do it.

I hoped. Just taking over. Sarah brings a great question. Like that question is really a key question that we all have to answer, and it's not an easy one. I'm not suggesting it is. The scripture says explicitly in James, pure and undefiled religion.