July 22, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Carl Trueman on his book “Luther” & Bill Shishko on “Creation Ordinances”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's.

Our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 22nd day of July 2015 and we've got two hours packed with great stuff awaiting for you to hear.

Carl Trueman on Luther and the Christian Life

First on our program we're going to have as our guest for the very first time ever Dr. Carl Truman. Dr. Carl Truman has received his PhD from the University of Aberdeen and is the Paul Woolley Professor of Church History at Westminster Theological Seminary and pastor of Cornerstone Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination in Ambler, Pennsylvania and he's contributed to numerous books including the Dictionary of Historical Theology and the Cambridge Companion to Reformation Theology and is the author of Luther's Legacy Histories and Fallacies and the Credal Imperative.

Today we're going to be discussing his book Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom for the first hour. The second hour we are going to have from 5 to 6 p .m. Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York who happens to be a mutual friend of both Dr. Truman and myself and Pastor Bill at 5 p .m. will begin our discussion on Creation Ordinances, Work, Sabbath, Marriage and Procreation.

But first let's start off the two-hour Iron Sharpens Iron today with Dr. Carl Truman. It's a delight to have you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron, brother. Oh, the pleasure is all mine and we know that we had attempted a couple of times to get you on and we are so thankful that finally our schedules matched each other and I am so thrilled to have you on and I know many people listening are as well judging from some of the emails I received prior to the broadcast expressing hearty approval and delight that you're going to be here.

I just want to read a wonderful commendation for your book by Michael Horton. Many of you may recognize Michael Horton from his broadcast of White Horse Inn, also from some of his many books that he has written and his conferences that he has spoken at.

He's also been a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron several times and has written a wonderful commendation for our program, but he says about Dr. Truman's book, if you think you know Luther, read this book. It is a remarkably edifying and illuminating piece of work displaying the interests of a pastor and the rigor of a historian.

Truman provides us with an analysis of Luther on the Christian life that is as human as the German reformer himself. And that's Michael Horton of the White Horse Inn broadcast. Well, let's begin with why you wrote this book, Dr. Truman.

There are other books that have become classics on the subject of Luther. For instance, everyone who knows anything about Luther will immediately recognize Here I Stand, A Life of Martin Luther by Roland Baten, and there are many others.

Why did you find the need in the 21st century to write another book on Martin Luther?

All righty. But what I didn't want to do was just another working, doing the background reading of the book, try to do in this book with books in German and there's a collection of essays in English, and that's been it on Luther's past.

Try to do is address the Christian...

Well, that's excellent. And as you know, there's a lot of confusion about Martin Luther. There are a lot of different opinions about who Martin Luther was. Many Roman Catholics claim he remained more Roman Catholic throughout his entire life than many of us would care to believe.

There are Calvinists like you and I who you could barely distinguish sometimes the way they describe Luther from Calvin. And of course, we have some Baptists folks who, due to a twisted version of church history, have come to loathe a figment of their imagination.

They call Martin Luther and make him out to be a horrible tyrant of a person. And then, of course, you have the Jewish folks and also even Messianic Jewish Christians who view him as an anti-Semite. So there's a lot of different theories and statements and beliefs and slanders and caricatures about Martin Luther.

It's always good to have somebody really give a vividly clear and accurate history of the man. And let's start off with the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of people who are within the Reformed tradition who seem to paint Luther as if he was in full agreement with Calvin or very close.

As you say in your introduction, what does Geneva do with.

Wittenberg? Well, theologian-wise. And of course, he is well known by people who even have a cursory.

Knowledge of history that he nailed the 95 Theses to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany in 1517 on October 31st. And that was really strictly a protest to the sale of indulgences. He had not really developed fully his understanding of biblical theology at that.

Point, did he? Why don't you explain also a little bit about the specifically on the title that you.

Chose, Luther on the Christian life cross and freedom.

...under the weakness of his flesh, by hanging cursed on a cross. But the cross is where God reveals himself and reveals to human beings how he's acting in mercy and grace towards them. And freedom is what is to characterize the Christian who is united to Christ, is free from the curse of love to God his Father and love...

And you said that this has a lot to do with the pastoral beliefs or expressions of Luther. Tell us about what period in this life he would have really begun to focus more on the pastoral aspect of his ministry.

Obviously, he went through quite a metamorphosis over the years. You have people pulling quotes from him from all different theological and denominational backgrounds who try to claim him as their own.

You have Roman Catholics who will quote him even after the Reformation, making statements that would give the implication that he was involved in Marian devotion and things like that. But wasn't he, obviously, being one of the first to really reform and so on in the 16th century, didn't he have a lot of progress to make after that.

Wittenberg experience? Oh yeah, he's pastorally involved really.

I want to give our listeners our email address. If you have a question for Dr. Karl Truman on the book that he has written, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom, you can email us at chrizarnsen at gmail .com.

Please include your first name, your city and state, and your country if outside the U .S. In fact, I've got a surprise for many of you. Include your address as well if you're one of the first three to email us a question that is good enough to be read on the air and applicable enough to the subject at hand.

You will receive a free copy of this book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom, Compliments of Crossway Books. We thank them so much for their generosity in that regard. Did a lot of this questioning of the Roman Catholic Church tradition and doctrine and dogma, did a lot of that come after his visit to Rome,.

His pilgrimage to Rome? Yes, I mean Luther's reaction to it, where he really started to.

Rethink everything that he had believed and practiced his entire life as an obedient Roman.

Catholic. Would you say that the teachings that Luther developed, you said that his main.

Disagreement with Calvin who came after, I mean they were contemporaries, but Luther obviously preceded Calvin. Would you say that the main disagreement was over the sacraments, but was he in agreement on things like unconditional election and other elements of Calvin's theology that we who are Reformed love so dearly today?

It would seem because of his view of the bondage of the human will, the great debate with Erasmus that he had, it would seem logically that he would be in agreement with Calvin, but do you know of other.

Stark contrasts with Calvin the Genevan Reformer? We do have a question from a listener. We have.

Ross who is in, and I'm probably going to be butchering the name of this city in Massachusetts because I always find out later that they're pronounced differently by local natives of Massachusetts than I would ever think that they should be pronounced, but Ross from Leominster, Massachusetts, he writes, in Timothy Lowell's view, or should I say in Timothy Lowell's new Luther bio, Resilient Reformer, he mentions that Luther became disheartened toward the people of Wittenberg at the end of his life.

Lowell writes, it seemed increasingly true that his long work, especially his preaching, had been in vain in the very place where he had labored the longest and the hardest. In light of that, my question is, what can be learned about disappointment in ministry, and how can Luther teach us, whether by good or bad example, to temper our hopes and fears?

Wow, that's an excellent question. I mean, not only is Luther suffering from ill health, which he should all. Now, I mentioned earlier that when I've been involved in a number of theological debates,.

Not as a debater, but as one who orchestrates the debates with well-known theologians, in particular on the Reform side, a friend of yours, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and the typical Roman Catholic claim amongst the apologists is not only that Luther retained much more of his Romanism than Protestants would care to admit, they also, on the other end of the spectrum, vilify him as believing in basically a fruitless conversion.

In other words, that he believed that justification was by faith alone, and therefore, he did not believe that there was a necessity of works in the life of a genuine believer, and I emphasize the word genuine.

And of course, they always bring up, he wanted to throw Jimmy in the stove, referring to the book of James, which is clearly discussing the need for works as an evidence of a changed heart. But if you could comment on that.

Is that a slanderous caricature of Luther?

And he never really removed it from the canon, did he? We're going to be going to our first break.

Right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Carl Truman, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And by the way, Ross in Massachusetts, please email us your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of the book we're discussing, Luther and the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom, and we look forward to shipping that out to you as soon as possible.

But chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N is our email address for questions, and please include your full mailing address so we can ship you out a copy if you're among the first three.

We'll now have two left that writes a question that we read on the air. We'll be right back with Dr. Carl Truman after these messages, so don't go away.

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The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.

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Tired of box store Christianity? Of doing.

Church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's word. And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron. If you've just tuned us in, our guest today for the first hour is Carl Truman, and he's discussing his book Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Truman, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Tell us something about the humor of Martin Luther.

I mean, I've seen some of the wood cuts that were involved in some of his humor that some people might find offensive, but tell us something about this aspect of his life.

It was a psychological aspect to his life. He was under huge pressure, really attacked. There was a kind of humor as well. It was a good thing. His enemies.

And cutting the dangers. Why don't you give us some more explanation of your chapter on theologians,.

Priests, and kings? In actual fact, all of us, theologians of glory, we do to our neighbors. We can give ourselves on their behalf. Well, you think that's out? No.

We have a listener in White Plains, New York. Bob writes, what role did Luther personally play in the persecution of Anabaptists in Germany? There are some who lay the blame squarely at his feet as if he ordered the torture and execution of.

Anabaptists. Can you please set us straight on what actually happened? Yeah, I had heard,.

And perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the Anabaptists were stoning disobedient children and a misapplication of the old covenant penal law and so on. Well, Bob, you're going to be getting a free copy of the book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom, by Dr. Carl Truman as well.

Thanks for the question. Tell us something.

More about your chapter on the theology of the word preached. Perhaps give us more detail on.

The chapter on the liturgy of the Christian life. That's a word that frightens a lot of evangelicals and Protestants. Not all, but some. But tell us about the liturgy of the Christian.

Life. I don't know how well thought out the liturgy is. I guess for those of our listeners.

Who don't know what scat singing is, wouldn't you say that it's free-form jazz singing?

Luther himself was a formal liturgy pedagogical structure, Christianity from listening to the sermon. You also learn Christianity from the shape of the service. And it took him five years from 1520 when he really first decides he needs a vernacular liturgy.

It took him five years, 1525, before he actually implemented a full vernacular liturgy in Wittenberg because he really wanted to get it right. Everything from the words and the order of worship to the music had to be correct.

Because in the Christian life, Luther felt that the very structure of the week... Well, we mentioned before about the caricature of Luther believing in a.

Fruitless Christianity, that repentance and good deeds are not a necessary litmus test or evidence or fruit of the genuinely converted. In light of that caricature, tell us about the chapter.

Living by the Word. That's quite all right. Now, while you're looking it up, I will tell our.

Listeners to email us a question at chrisarnsen at gmail .com. We only have one copy left to give away of Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom. And so please include your mailing address when you send us a question, and we'll shoot that out to you.

And that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And have you found that chapter yet? Yeah, I have. I just need to revise. It's.

Funny how sometimes I need to revise. What I'm trying to do in that chapter is really address how Luther would have seen the everyday life, and above all... Well, that's a good place to ask for.

Some more detail on freed from Babylon, baptism in the mass, especially since we already had brought up the fact of Luther retaining, whether for good or bad,.

Some of the baggage of Roman Catholicism. But when the devil comes... What about the adoration.

Of the elements of the Eucharist in the Roman Catholic Church? How far into his life did he.

Carry that with him? Adoration of the elements. Having said that, Luther does believe very strongly that the whole Christ, divine and human, would be, in some ways, on that point, a little closer to Roman Catholicism than a typical evangelical church, for example.

And even with the Genevan Reformation as well, they were not following Luther on that point,.

Were they? No. We have an anonymous listener who asks, When in Luther's life did anti-Semitism.

Rear its ugly head, and why? And is it known that he ever repented of it?

Well, really, we're looking...

Give us a summary of Luther and Christian righteousness. Give us a summary of Luther.

And Christian righteousness. And give us a summary, if you could, on the life and death.

In this earthly realm, government, calling, and family.

Magistrate was put the idea that calling Luther...

One final question. I, years ago, heard a Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor preach a very powerful sermon. This brother is now with the Lord. He passed away a number of years ago. He preached a sermon, Would Luther be a Lutheran today?

And much to my surprise, he concluded, no, because of what he saw as modernism and a mainline dead religion overtaking the mainline churches. What is your answer to that question? Well, thank you so much for being our guest today, Dr. Truman.

I eagerly look forward to having you back. If anybody wants to purchase this book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom, you can go to CVBBS .com. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

CVBBS .com. You can also go to Solid Ground Christian Books, another one of our sponsors. Solid-Ground-Books .com. Solid-Ground-Books .com. For more information on Westminster Theological Seminary, where Dr. Truman serves on the faculty, you can go to WTS .edu.

WTS .edu. Thank you so much, brother, for being a part of our program. Please return soon.

Thanks for having me, Chris.

Creation Ordinances: Work and the Sabbath

And please don't go away, ladies and gentlemen, because Bill Shishko is going to be our guest for the second hour of Iron Sharpens Iron, talking about the Creation Ordinance. So please give us an email with questions for Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York.

And we hope to hear from you soon. And we look forward to speaking with our guest, Bill Shishko, momentarily. And may the Lord bless the second hour of Iron Sharpens Iron. Don't go away.

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Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the.

Scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church.

And see all that a church can be. Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402. Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org. That's lynbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back. This is Chris Arms,.

And if you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Pastor Bill Shishko for the second hour of Iron Sharpens Iron, and he is the pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island, which is right near the Nassau County, Queens border.

He has been a very dear friend of mine ever since I came to Saving Faith in Christ by his grace and mercy approximately 30 years ago, and he has probably been the very close to the number one, if not the number one supporter and encourager of me personally and my radio ministry that I have ever encountered in this journey of mine, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron and welcome you for the first time on the all-new Iron Sharpens Iron, Pastor Bill Shishko.

Yes, I can hear you perfectly fine, so hopefully you'll be able to hear me clearly enough to conduct the interview without much problem. Can you hear me at least? Can you understand.

What I'm saying? Yeah, I can. Well, the honor and privilege is all mine, and one of my favorite.

Programs ever from the old Iron Sharpens Iron, which I believe helped a lot of people, was our discussion on suicide, and it was interesting that one Arminian charismatic pastor in some way, shape, or form came eventually to the doctrines of sovereign grace through hearing.

That program and through meeting you and developing a friendship with you and so on. Amen. And you can.

Actually hear that program on YouTube, and in fact, I'm going to have our webmaster for the new website of Iron Sharpens Iron post the audio for that as soon as possible. Well, first of all, before we even get into our discussion on the creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and procreation, tell us something about the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in general.

And the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square specifically. USA. Yeah, praise God for.

That. It's always good to see when a good church, that is, begins to multiply like you have, and it's frightening to me to hear about your son being a pastor, not because he isn't qualified, but because I remember him as a little boy, and it just reminds me of how fast the years are whizzing by me.

Why don't you tell us something a little about Queens Reformation, well, the.

Reformation Presbyterian Church in Fresh Meadows, Queens, New York. That worked maybe five years ago. Well, let me, before I forget to, before we run out of time later, I want to repeat the.

Website addresses of both churches, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, first of all. Their website is opcli .org, that's O-P-C standing for Orthodox Presbyterian Church, L-I standing for longisland .org, O-P-C-L-I .org, and we have the Reformation Presbyterian Church of Fresh Meadows, Queens, New York.

Their website is queensreformation .org, queensreformation .org, and I look forward to having your son Jonathan as a part of this broadcast at some point.

In the near future, God willing. Yeah, and just keep our website, actually, this is our website.

Format. Great, and I want to give our email address if you have any questions for Pastor Bill Shishko on our theme today, Creation Ordinances, Work, Sabbath, Marriage, and Procreation, which each could obviously be a program in and of itself, but our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, that's chrisarnsen, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com, and we look forward to hearing from you with your questions.

Please include your first name, at least, and your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if outside the USA, because we do have a number of listeners globally that have been reaching out to us via emails for our guests.

Creation Ordinances: Marriage, Singleness, Divorce, and Remarriage

Why the burden on your heart, Pastor Shishko, to speak on the issue of Creation Ordinances?

Well, I appreciate the opportunity, clearly. No, you can keep going, brother, because the worst.

Thing in the world, as you may know, is a guest where you have to pull teeth to get answers out.

Of them, so. That would have put up racism, in my view. Amen, amen. Exactly. Well, we have the first.

Item under the umbrella of Creation Ordinances is Work and connection with the Sabbath. Now, obviously, you know as well as I do that within Christendom, even within Calvinism and within the theologically reformed churches of different stripes, and you could even say even within Reformed Baptist or Reformed Presbyterian circles in their own in-house debates, the issue of the Sabbath will occasionally come up, and because there is no really clear, vividly detailed blueprint in the New Covenant in the written Word of God on how to observe the Sabbath other than what we have in the Old Covenant law, and because of the fact that not everything from the Old Covenant law is carried over, how are we to regard this issue of work and the Sabbath?

That's what I really believe. And as far as your beliefs on employment that involves.

Work on Sunday, it is often said amongst those who uphold the perpetuity of the Sabbath that the liberty that we have in that area are acts of mercy or necessity. If you could.

Explain a little further on that. Yeah, you will rightly. On this one, interestingly, there's not a few in the more broadly evangelical camp who are kind of raising their hands and say, hey, wait a minute, there's a commandment in the midst of our frantic culture, there's a commandment about rest.

Matthew Sleeth, who wrote the book, I mean, theologically a lot of it's terrible, but his book 24 -6, Tyndall House, I believe, published it. And Matthew Sleeth is a medical doctor and he just lays out the need that our body has for a day of rest, one day in seven, hence 24 -6.

And we need to be thankful that in whatever communities people are raising this point again. So that really would be, but see, that's for man is man. Whatever culture people need that unless they want to drop dead prematurely.

And the acts of mercy and necessity.

Would also involve people who are nurses, doctors, policemen, firemen, and on and on. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Don't we need to be very careful if we are ourselves strict Sabbatarians not to use this as a tool for Pharisaic self-righteousness to be the police, if you will, of how others observe the Sabbath to an extreme.

Obviously, there's all different varying degrees of flagrant disrespect for one thing or another, but don't we have to be careful about being more concerned about the way we ourselves are honoring the Lord on his day.

Rather than necessarily our neighbor or our brother? Yeah, absolutely. Secular realm. If I were a Christian... And not that we can belabor this with the time limitations, but what's your.

Opinion on those churches, even some from theologically Reformed backgrounds, who because of the cultural background of the country where their church is, for instance in Israel, I have known of Reformed churches that their day of worship is Saturday because of the culture of.

Judaism in Israel. That kind of a thing. What's your opinion on that? We're going to go to a break.

Right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Pastor Bill Shishko on our theme, the creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and procreation, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York.

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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages, which the NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.

Tired of bop store Christianity? Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island. Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arms, and if you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island.

Their website, just to repeat it, is opcli .org. O-P-C for Orthodox Presbyterian Church, L-I-D-O-R-G. Today we are discussing creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and procreation. And our email address, if you have a question for Pastor Bill.

Some people don't realize this is a live show, and if you want a question read on the air and answered by Pastor Bill to the best of his ability, please email it to us at chrisarnson at gmail .com. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We do have an anonymous listener from Lindenhurst, Long Island, who asks the question, I know that you are going to be discussing marriage as a part of your creation ordinance discussion. I believe that I have a call to singleness, and yet I receive much pressure from many members of the congregation where I am to seek a spouse, almost insinuating that I am in sin by not seeking a spouse.

What are your comments on that situation that I find myself in?

Oh yeah, absolutely. We do have a couple of other anonymous listeners with questions. It.

Seems that that subject evokes people wanting to remain anonymous, the subject of marriage, but is there anything that you wanted to lay down on that specific issue before.

I would take a couple of more listener questions? Before I even go on to that,.

I just wanted to ask you something myself. One of the things that disturbs me about the evangelical response to the sin of homosexuality and the homosexual rights movement and so on, I think that all too often, and you correct me if you think I'm wrong here, I think that all too often evangelicals are adopting notions and even phraseology from the world when they begin to speak to those involved with homosexual activity with such love, if you will.

In fact, I wouldn't even call it genuine love, but with such softness and kindness and compassion that they begin to buy into the idea that this is a community of people and they speak to them and about them very often as if they are an ethnic group or a nationality, just like the liberals have tried to brainwash us to believe.

And even sometimes when these evangelicals would say that these are sinful activities, they treat the people involved in them as if they are from.

A community like an ethnic group. But if you could comment on that, that is, that is perhaps.

That's a guest idea for the near future. I'd recommend it. One of the anonymous listeners has emailed us from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, right in this area that the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast is emanating from.

I have been married and divorced several times before becoming a born-again Christian. And I could even say that all three times I was divorced, the fault was in the majority on my end through unfaithfulness and other things.