July 22, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Carl Trueman on his book “Luther” & Bill Shishko on “Creation Ordinances”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet

earth listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy

Wednesday on this 22nd day of July 2015 and we've got two

hours packed with great stuff awaiting for you to hear.

First on our program we're going to have as our guest for the very first time ever Dr.

Carl Truman.

Dr. Carl Truman has received his PhD from the University of Aberdeen and is the

Paul Woolley Professor of Church History at Westminster Theological Seminary and pastor of Cornerstone

Presbyterian Church, which is a congregation in the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination in

Ambler, Pennsylvania and he's contributed to numerous books including the Dictionary of Historical Theology and the

Cambridge Companion to Reformation Theology and is the author of Luther's Legacy

Histories and Fallacies and the Credal Imperative.

Today we're going to be discussing his book Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom for the first

hour.

The second hour we are going to have from 5 to 6 p .m. Pastor Bill Shishko of the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York who happens to be a mutual friend of

both Dr. Truman and myself and Pastor Bill at 5 p .m. will begin our discussion

on Creation Ordinances, Work, Sabbath, Marriage and Procreation.

But first let's start off the two -hour Iron Sharpens Iron today with Dr. Carl

Truman.

It's a delight to have you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron, brother.

Oh, the pleasure is all mine and we know that we had attempted

a couple of times to get you on and we are so thankful that finally our schedules matched each other

and I am so thrilled to have you on and I know many people listening are as well

judging from some of the emails I received prior to the broadcast expressing hearty approval and delight

that you're going to be here.

I just want to read a wonderful commendation for your book by Michael Horton.

Many of you may recognize Michael Horton from his broadcast of White Horse Inn,

also from some of his many books that he has written and his conferences that he has spoken at.

He's also been a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron several times and has written a wonderful commendation for

our program, but he says about Dr. Truman's book, if you think you know

Luther, read this book.

It is a remarkably edifying and illuminating piece of work displaying the interests of a pastor

and the rigor of a historian.

Truman provides us with an analysis of Luther on the Christian life that is as

human as the German reformer himself.

And that's Michael Horton of the White Horse Inn broadcast.

Well, let's begin with why you wrote this book, Dr. Truman.

There are other books that have become classics on the subject of Luther.

For instance, everyone who knows anything about Luther will immediately recognize Here I Stand,

A Life of Martin Luther by Roland Baten, and there are many others.

Why did you find the need in the 21st century to write another book on Martin Luther?

All righty.

But what I didn't want to do was just another

working, doing the background reading of the

book, try to do in this book with books

in German and there's a

collection of essays in English, and that's been it on Luther's past.

Try to do is address the

Christian...

Well, that's excellent.

And as you know, there's a lot of confusion about Martin Luther.

There are a lot of different opinions about who Martin Luther was.

Many Roman Catholics claim he remained more Roman Catholic

throughout his entire life than many of us would care to believe.

There are Calvinists like you and I who you could barely distinguish sometimes

the way they describe Luther from Calvin.

And of course, we have some Baptists folks who, due to a

twisted version of church history, have come to loathe a figment of their imagination.

They call Martin Luther and make him out to be a horrible tyrant of a person.

And then, of course, you have the Jewish folks and also even Messianic

Jewish Christians who view him as an anti -Semite.

So there's a lot of different theories and statements and beliefs and

slanders and caricatures about Martin Luther.

It's always good to have somebody really give a vividly clear and accurate history of the man.

And let's start off with the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of people

who are within the Reformed tradition who seem to paint Luther as if he was in

full agreement with Calvin or very close.

As you say in your introduction, what does Geneva do with.

Wittenberg?

Well,

theologian

-wise.

And

of

course,

he is

well

known by people who

even have a

cursory.

Knowledge of history that he nailed the 95 Theses to the door of the castle

church in Wittenberg, Germany in 1517 on

October 31st.

And that was really strictly a protest to the sale of indulgences.

He had not really developed fully his understanding of biblical theology at that.

Point,

did he?

Why don't

you explain

also

a little bit

about

the

specifically on

the

title

that you.

Chose, Luther on the Christian life cross and freedom.

...under the weakness of his

flesh, by hanging cursed on a cross.

But the cross is where God reveals himself and reveals to human beings how he's acting in mercy and grace

towards them.

And freedom is what is to characterize the Christian who is united to Christ, is

free from the curse of

love to

God his Father and

love...

And you said that this has a lot to do with the pastoral beliefs

or expressions of Luther.

Tell us about what period in this life he would have really begun to focus more on the

pastoral aspect of his ministry.

Obviously, he went through quite a metamorphosis over the years.

You have people pulling quotes from him from all different

theological and denominational backgrounds who try to claim him as their own.

You have Roman Catholics who will quote him even after the Reformation, making

statements that would give the implication that he was involved in Marian

devotion and things like that.

But wasn't he, obviously, being one of the first

to really reform and so on in the 16th century,

didn't he have a lot of progress to make after that.

Wittenberg experience?

Oh yeah, he's pastorally involved really.

I want to give our listeners our email address.

If you have a question for Dr. Karl Truman on the book that he has written,

Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom, you can email us at chrizarnsen at

gmail

.com.

Please include your first name, your city and state, and your country if outside the U .S.

In fact, I've got a surprise for many of you.

Include your address as well if you're one of the first three to email us a question

that is good enough to be read on the air and applicable enough to the subject at hand.

You will receive a free copy of this book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom,

Compliments of Crossway Books.

We thank them so much for their generosity in that regard.

Did a lot of this questioning of the Roman Catholic Church

tradition and doctrine and dogma, did a lot of that come after his

visit to Rome,.

His pilgrimage to

Rome?

Yes, I mean Luther's reaction to it, where he really started to.

Rethink everything that he had believed and practiced his entire life as an

obedient Roman.

Catholic.

Would

you say

that the

teachings

that

Luther

developed,

you

said that

his

main.

Disagreement with Calvin who came after, I mean they were contemporaries, but Luther obviously

preceded Calvin.

Would you say that the main disagreement was over the sacraments,

but was he in agreement on things like unconditional election and other elements of

Calvin's theology that we who are Reformed love so dearly today?

It would seem because of his view of the bondage of the human will,

the great debate with Erasmus that he had, it would seem logically that he would be

in agreement with Calvin, but do you know of other.

Stark

contrasts

with Calvin the

Genevan

Reformer?

We do

have

a

question

from a

listener.

We have.

Ross who is in, and I'm probably going to be butchering the name of this city

in Massachusetts because I always find out later that they're pronounced differently by local natives of

Massachusetts than I would ever think that they should be pronounced, but Ross from

Leominster, Massachusetts, he writes, in

Timothy Lowell's view, or should I say in Timothy Lowell's new Luther bio,

Resilient Reformer, he mentions that Luther became disheartened toward the people of Wittenberg

at the end of his life.

Lowell writes, it seemed increasingly true that his long work, especially his preaching, had been in

vain in the very place where he had labored the longest and the hardest.

In light of that, my question is, what can be learned about disappointment in ministry, and how

can Luther teach us, whether by good or bad example, to temper our hopes and fears?

Wow,

that's

an

excellent

question.

I mean,

not only is

Luther

suffering

from ill

health,

which

he should all.

Now, I

mentioned

earlier that when

I've been

involved

in a number

of theological debates,.

Not as a debater, but as one who orchestrates the debates with well -known

theologians, in particular on the Reform side, a friend of yours, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries,

and the typical Roman Catholic claim amongst the apologists

is not only that Luther retained much more of his Romanism

than Protestants would care to admit, they also, on the other end of the spectrum,

vilify him as believing in basically a

fruitless conversion.

In other words, that he believed that justification was by faith

alone, and therefore, he did not believe that there was a necessity of

works in the life of a genuine believer, and I emphasize the word genuine.

And of course, they always bring up, he wanted to throw Jimmy in the stove,

referring to the book of James, which is clearly discussing the need for works as an

evidence of a changed heart.

But if you could comment on that.

Is that a slanderous caricature of Luther?

And he never really removed it from the canon,

did he?

We're going

to be

going to our first

break.

Right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Carl Truman, our email address is

chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And by the way, Ross in Massachusetts, please email us your full mailing address because you

have won a free copy of the book we're discussing, Luther and the Christian Life, Cross and

Freedom, and we look forward to shipping that out to you as soon as possible.

But chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N is

our email address for questions, and please include your full mailing address so we can

ship you out a copy if you're among the first three.

We'll now have two left that writes a question that we read on the air.

We'll be right back with Dr. Carl Truman after these messages, so don't go away.

Hi, I'm Mike Gallagher.

Support for Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio comes from Thriving Financial, where faith and finances connect for good.

Thriving helps its members be wise with money and live generously.

Nearly two and a half million Christians count on Thriving to help them protect their families and strengthen the communities

where they live, work, and worship.

To learn more about what makes Thriving unique, contact me at 717 -254

-6433.

We know we were made for so much more than

life.

Lending faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriving story.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable bible

translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known

for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference bible includes contemporary

topics relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

Tired of box store Christianity?

Of doing.

Church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service

times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you've just tuned us in, our guest today for the first hour is Carl Truman, and he's discussing

his book Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Truman, our email address is chrisarnzen at

gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Tell us something about the humor of Martin Luther.

I mean, I've seen some of the wood cuts that were involved in some of his humor that

some people might find offensive, but tell us something about this aspect of his life.

It

was a

psychological

aspect to

his

life.

He was

under

huge

pressure,

really attacked.

There was a kind of

humor

as well.

It was a good thing.

His enemies.

And cutting the dangers.

Why don't you give us some more explanation of your chapter

on theologians,.

Priests,

and

kings?

In actual fact, all of

us,

theologians

of

glory,

we

do

to

our

neighbors.

We can give ourselves on

their behalf.

Well, you think

that's out?

No.

We have a listener in White Plains, New York.

Bob writes, what role did Luther personally play in

the persecution of Anabaptists in Germany?

There are some who lay the blame squarely at his feet as if he ordered

the torture and execution of.

Anabaptists.

Can

you

please

set us

straight

on what

actually

happened?

Yeah, I

had heard,.

And perhaps you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the Anabaptists were stoning disobedient

children and a misapplication of the old covenant penal law and so on.

Well, Bob, you're going to be getting a free copy of the book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom,

by Dr. Carl Truman as well.

Thanks for the question.

Tell us something.

More

about your

chapter

on

the

theology

of the

word

preached.

Perhaps

give

us

more

detail

on.

The chapter on the liturgy of the Christian life.

That's a word that frightens a lot of evangelicals and Protestants.

Not all, but some.

But tell us about the liturgy of the Christian.

Life.

I don't know how

well thought

out the liturgy is.

I guess for those of our listeners.

Who don't know what scat singing is, wouldn't you say that it's free -form jazz singing?

Luther himself was a formal liturgy

pedagogical structure, Christianity from listening to the sermon.

You also learn Christianity from the shape of the service.

And it took him five years from 1520 when he really first decides he needs a vernacular liturgy.

It took him five years, 1525, before he actually implemented a full vernacular liturgy in Wittenberg

because he really wanted to get it right.

Everything from the words and the order of worship to the music had to be

correct.

Because in the

Christian life, Luther

felt that the very structure

of the

week...

Well, we mentioned before about the caricature of Luther believing in a.

Fruitless Christianity, that repentance and good deeds are

not a necessary litmus test or evidence or fruit of the

genuinely converted.

In light of that caricature, tell us about the chapter.

Living by the Word.

That's quite all right.

Now, while you're looking it up, I will tell our.

Listeners to email us a question at chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

We only have one copy left to give away of Luther on the Christian Life, Cross, and Freedom.

And so please include your mailing address when you send us a question, and we'll shoot that out to

you.

And that's chrisarnsen at

gmail .com.

And have you found that chapter yet?

Yeah, I have.

I just need to revise.

It's.

Funny how sometimes I need to revise.

What I'm

trying to do in that chapter is really

address how

Luther

would

have

seen

the

everyday

life,

and

above

all...

Well,

that's

a good

place

to ask for.

Some more detail on freed from Babylon, baptism in the mass, especially since we already

had brought up the fact of Luther retaining,

whether for good or bad,.

Some of

the

baggage

of

Roman

Catholicism.

But when

the

devil

comes...

What

about

the

adoration.

Of the elements of the Eucharist in the Roman Catholic Church?

How far into his life did he.

Carry

that

with

him?

Adoration of the elements.

Having said that, Luther does believe very strongly that the

whole Christ, divine and human,

would be, in

some ways, on that point, a little closer to Roman Catholicism than

a typical evangelical church, for example.

And even with the Genevan Reformation as well, they were not

following Luther on that point,.

Were

they?

No.

We have

an

anonymous

listener who asks, When in Luther's life did anti -Semitism.

Rear its ugly head, and why?

And is it known that he ever repented of it?

Well,

really,

we're

looking...

Give us a summary of Luther and Christian righteousness.

Give us a summary of Luther.

And Christian righteousness.

And give us a

summary,

if

you

could,

on

the

life

and death.

In this earthly realm, government, calling, and family.

Magistrate

was

put

the idea

that calling

Luther...

One final question.

I, years ago, heard a Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor preach a very powerful sermon.

This brother is now with the Lord.

He passed away a number of years ago.

He preached a sermon, Would Luther be a Lutheran today?

And much to my surprise, he concluded, no, because of what he saw as

modernism and a mainline dead religion overtaking the mainline

churches.

What is your answer to that question?

Well, thank you so much for being our guest today, Dr. Truman.

I eagerly look forward to having you back.

If anybody wants to purchase this book, Luther on the Christian Life, Cross and Freedom, you can go to

CVBBS .com.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

CVBBS .com.

You can also go to Solid Ground Christian Books, another one of our sponsors.

Solid -Ground -Books .com.

Solid -Ground -Books .com.

For more information on Westminster Theological Seminary, where Dr. Truman serves on the faculty, you can go to

WTS .edu.

WTS .edu.

Thank you so much, brother, for being a part of our program.

Please return soon.

Thanks for having me, Chris.

And please don't go away, ladies and gentlemen, because Bill Shishko is going to be our guest for the second hour of

Iron Sharpens Iron, talking about the Creation Ordinance.

So please give us an email with questions for Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox

Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York.

And we hope to hear from you soon.

And we look forward to speaking with our guest, Bill Shishko, momentarily.

And may the Lord bless the second hour of Iron Sharpens Iron.

Don't go away.

Thriven Financial is pleased to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

While others see money as a goal, Thriven sees it as a tool for serving God, family, and

community.

For more than a century, Thriven has helped its nearly 2 .5 million Christian members make financial

decisions that reflect their values, while also helping them live generously.

Find out more by contacting me, Mike Gallagher,

at 717 -254 -6433.

Thriven Financial, connecting faith and finances for good.

Lending faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriven story.

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the.

Scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church.

And see all that a church can be.

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

That's lynbrookbaptist .org.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arms,.

And if you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Pastor Bill Shishko for the second hour of Iron

Sharpens Iron, and he is the pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long

Island, which is right near the Nassau County, Queens border.

He has been a very dear friend of mine ever since I came to Saving Faith in Christ by

his grace and mercy approximately 30 years ago, and he has probably been the

very close to the number one, if not the number one supporter and encourager of

me personally and my radio ministry that I have ever encountered in this

journey of mine, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to

Iron Sharpens Iron and welcome you for the first time on the all -new Iron Sharpens Iron, Pastor Bill Shishko.

Yes, I can hear you perfectly fine, so hopefully you'll be able to hear me clearly enough to

conduct the interview without much problem.

Can you hear me at least?

Can you understand.

What I'm saying?

Yeah, I can.

Well, the honor and privilege is all mine, and one of my favorite.

Programs ever from the old Iron Sharpens Iron, which I believe helped a lot

of people, was our discussion on suicide, and it was interesting that one

Arminian charismatic pastor in some way, shape, or form came

eventually to the doctrines of sovereign grace through hearing.

That program and through meeting you and developing a friendship with you and so

on.

Amen.

And you

can.

Actually hear that program on YouTube, and in fact, I'm going to have our

webmaster for the new website of Iron Sharpens Iron post the audio for that as soon as

possible.

Well, first of all, before we even get into our discussion on the creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and

procreation, tell us something about the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in general.

And the

Orthodox Presbyterian

Church in

Franklin

Square

specifically.

USA.

Yeah,

praise

God

for.

That.

It's always good to see when a good church, that is, begins to multiply

like you have, and it's frightening to me to hear about your son being a pastor, not because

he isn't qualified, but because I remember him as a little boy, and it just reminds me of how fast

the years are whizzing by me.

Why don't you tell us something a little about Queens Reformation, well, the.

Reformation Presbyterian Church in Fresh Meadows, Queens, New York.

That worked maybe five years ago.

Well, let me,

before

I forget to,

before

we run out

of time

later,

I want to

repeat the.

Website addresses of both churches, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin

Square, first of all.

Their website is opcli .org, that's O -P -C standing for

Orthodox Presbyterian Church, L -I standing for longisland .org, O -P -C -L -I .org,

and we have the Reformation Presbyterian Church of Fresh Meadows, Queens, New York.

Their website is queensreformation .org, queensreformation

.org, and I look forward to having your son Jonathan as a part of this broadcast at some point.

In the near future, God willing.

Yeah, and just keep our website, actually, this is our

website.

Format.

Great, and I want to give our email address if you have any questions for Pastor Bill

Shishko on our theme today, Creation Ordinances, Work, Sabbath, Marriage, and

Procreation, which each could obviously be a program in and of itself,

but our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, that's chrisarnsen, C

-H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and we

look forward to hearing from you with your questions.

Please include your first name, at least, and your city and state of residence, and

your country of residence if outside the USA, because we do have a number of

listeners globally that have been reaching out to us via emails for our guests.

Why the burden on your heart, Pastor Shishko, to speak on the issue of Creation Ordinances?

Well,

I

appreciate

the

opportunity,

clearly.

No, you

can

keep

going,

brother,

because

the

worst.

Thing in the world, as you may know, is a guest where you have to pull teeth to get answers out.

Of

them,

so.

That

would

have

put up

racism,

in

my

view.

Amen,

amen.

Exactly.

Well,

we

have

the

first.

Item under the umbrella of Creation Ordinances is Work and connection with the

Sabbath.

Now, obviously, you know as well as I do that within Christendom,

even within Calvinism and within the theologically reformed churches of

different stripes, and you could even say even within Reformed Baptist or Reformed

Presbyterian circles in their own in -house debates, the issue of the Sabbath will

occasionally come up, and because there is no really clear, vividly

detailed blueprint in the New Covenant in the written Word of God on

how to observe the Sabbath other than what we have in the Old Covenant law,

and because of the fact that not everything from the Old Covenant law is carried over, how

are we to regard this issue of work and the Sabbath?

That's what I really

believe.

And as

far

as

your

beliefs

on employment

that

involves.

Work on Sunday, it is often said amongst those who uphold

the perpetuity of the Sabbath that the liberty that we have in that area are acts of

mercy or necessity.

If you could.

Explain

a little further

on that.

Yeah,

you will

rightly.

On

this

one,

interestingly,

there's not a few in the more broadly evangelical camp who are kind of raising

their hands and say, hey, wait a minute, there's a commandment in the midst of our frantic culture,

there's a commandment about rest.

Matthew Sleeth, who wrote the book, I mean, theologically a lot of it's terrible, but

his book 24 -6, Tyndall House, I believe, published it.

And Matthew Sleeth is a medical doctor and he just lays out the need that

our body has for a day of rest, one day in seven, hence 24 -6.

And we need to be thankful that in whatever communities people are raising this point again.

So that really would be, but see, that's for man is man.

Whatever culture people need that unless they want to drop dead prematurely.

And the acts of mercy and necessity.

Would also involve people who are nurses, doctors, policemen, firemen, and on and on.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Don't we need to be very careful if we are ourselves strict Sabbatarians

not to use this as a tool for Pharisaic self -righteousness to

be the police, if you will, of how others observe the Sabbath to an extreme.

Obviously, there's all different varying degrees of flagrant disrespect for one thing or another, but

don't we have to be careful about being more concerned about the way we ourselves are honoring

the Lord on his day.

Rather than necessarily our neighbor or our brother?

Yeah, absolutely.

Secular realm.

If I were

a

Christian...

And not

that

we can

belabor

this

with

the

time

limitations,

but what's

your.

Opinion on those churches, even some from theologically Reformed backgrounds,

who because of the cultural background of the country where their church

is, for instance in Israel, I have known of Reformed churches that their day of worship is

Saturday because of the culture of.

Judaism in

Israel.

That

kind

of a

thing.

What's

your

opinion on that?

We're

going

to go to a

break.

Right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Pastor Bill Shishko on our theme, the

creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and procreation, our email address is chrisarnsen at

gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York.

It's easy to put off saving for retirement, but it's just as easy to start.

Once you do, you'll feel more confident about your future.

So where to begin?

Start with Thriving Financial.

They'll help you define your financial goals and take realistic steps to help you reach them.

It comes down to making wise choices about money because even small steps add up.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, at 717 -254

-6433.

Licensed agent producer of Thriving Financial.

Marketing name Thriving Financial.

Registered representative of Thriving Investment Management Incorporated.

Thriving .com.

We know we were made for so much more.

Blending faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriving story.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable

Bible translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages, which the NASB is known

for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary

topics relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

Tired of bop store Christianity?

Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arms, and if you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church

in Franklin Square, Long Island.

Their website, just to repeat it, is opcli .org.

O -P -C for Orthodox Presbyterian Church, L -I -D -O -R -G.

Today we are discussing creation ordinances, work, Sabbath, marriage, and procreation.

And our email address, if you have a question for Pastor Bill.

Some people don't realize this is a live show, and if you want a question read

on the air and answered by Pastor Bill to the best of his ability, please email it to us

at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We do have an anonymous listener from Lindenhurst, Long Island, who asks the

question, I know that you are going to be discussing marriage as a part of your

creation ordinance discussion.

I believe that I have a call to singleness, and yet I receive much

pressure from many members of the congregation where I am to seek a

spouse, almost insinuating that I am in sin by not seeking

a spouse.

What are your comments on that situation that I find myself in?

Oh

yeah,

absolutely.

We

do

have

a

couple

of

other

anonymous

listeners

with

questions.

It.

Seems that that subject evokes people wanting to remain anonymous, the subject of marriage,

but is there anything that you wanted to lay down on that specific issue before.

I

would

take

a

couple

of

more

listener

questions?

Before I

even

go

on

to

that,.

I just wanted to ask you something myself.

One of the things that disturbs me about the evangelical

response to the sin of homosexuality and the

homosexual rights movement and so on, I think that all too often, and you correct

me if you think I'm wrong here, I think that all too often evangelicals are

adopting notions and even phraseology from the world

when they begin to speak to those involved with homosexual activity with such

love, if you will.

In fact, I wouldn't even call it genuine love, but with such softness and kindness and

compassion that they begin to buy into the idea that this is a community of people

and they speak to them and about them very often as if they are

an ethnic group or a nationality, just like the liberals have tried to brainwash us to believe.

And even sometimes when these evangelicals would say that these are sinful activities, they treat

the people involved in them as if they are from.

A

community

like an

ethnic

group.

But

if

you

could

comment

on that,

that is,

that is

perhaps.

That's a guest idea for the near future.

I'd recommend it.

One of the anonymous listeners has emailed us from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, right in this

area that the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast is emanating from.

I have been married and divorced several times before

becoming a born -again Christian.

And I could even say that all three times I was divorced, the fault

was in the majority on my end through unfaithfulness and other things.

Now that I am a born -again believer and I'm unmarried, do I have the freedom to seek a

spouse?

Mike, the church that I am a member of does not believe in divorce and remarriage.

Any comments.

On that?

And that's like a

case -by -case issue, would you say?

I'm sorry?

Would that be like a

case

-by -case

situation

where

you'd

have

to...

Yeah, I

mean

there's

so many

quaint

number of cases.

Now do you

want me

to give that

out privately

through

email myself?

You can give

out my email address.

I don't mind some

fair game.

Yes, the last

anonymous listener

who is.

From Wyckoff, New Jersey, asks the question, is there any

biblical principle that opposes an older man marrying

a much younger woman of legal age?

I have received some very strong negative feedback from

members of my church for an engagement I am pursuing with a woman who

is 25.

Years

my

junior.

What

is

your

advice

on

this

situation?

And

by the way,

just

in case anybody.

Is wondering about this, the only reason why I'm reading city and state of

anonymous listeners is because they're providing them with the obvious intent to provide that

information to listeners.

If they didn't put that in the email itself, it wouldn't obviously pinpoint where they were from.

You have childless marriages, obviously.

Part of our discussion is procreation.

Is it ever wrong for couples that, because of medical conditions

or what have you, who do not have children, is it ever wrong for them to not

to seek adoption?

Because they just don't believe that due to their careers and so on, that it would be conducive

to a happy family life for these children if they were adopted.

You have some Christians who believe that childless couples, it's a duty of theirs to

adopt if they can't procreate.

So if you could.

Give your comment

on that.

Right.

That's a weird one.

This is the

New York in me.

Yeah, I'd

like to get

Nelson

Klosterman

on to

discuss

that

regarding

bioethics

and so

on.

Please, in a minute, if you could, just conclude the program with what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners

regarding this issue.

Yeah, I

think...

Well, Bill,

as always,

you always

amaze me

how

you.

Remain within seconds of any given time frame that you're given.

It doesn't apply in my preaching, incidentally.

I can do it on a radio show, but not in preaching.

I can remember you doing recordings of special Christmas broadcasts at WMCA,

and the reel -to -reel would be going to date ourselves here, and without

even me stopping anything, you would conclude a three -hour broadcast within five seconds or two seconds or

one second every time.

But I thank you so much for being on the show.

I hope you come back very soon, and I know that your website is opcli .org,

opcli .org.

God bless you, Pastor Bill, and I hope everybody listening will always remember for the rest of their lives

that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

We hope you tune in tomorrow to Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio.

God bless.