Tom Sheppard: How To Open Air Preach DMW#223

Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.

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So guys, we want to make sure we support those conferences and those businesses because they are kind to the podcast as well. If you've noticed, my voice is kind of going. Like three days ago I woke up with a sore throat.

I went hoarse for about a day, started getting it back two days ago, and today I'm on the tail end of it. So if you hear me clear my throat a couple times or I sound a little funny, I'm just getting it back.

I don't know what I caught. I mean, I wasn't sick. Nothing really happened except I lost my voice. I don't know if that's the Lord telling me to stop talking as much. Maybe my wife's praying for it. I don't know.

But yeah, I want to get right into it. We've got a guest. If you're watching, you see him there on the other side. Tom Shepherd. He's a street evangelist from, well, he street evangelizes in Fredericksburg, Texas.

Host of the Even If None podcast, which is coming out very soon. He was a participant, going to be a speaker at the war conference on sanctification with Jeffrey Rice and Open Air Theology next February.

Met him down there this year and we stayed in the same house and it was an absolute blast. So we're excited to talk about those things, street evangelism, the Even If None podcast, also talking about the conference we're going to be at in February.

Tom, what's going.

On, brother? All right, how are you, man? Good, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, glad to be here.

Yeah, so it was cool hanging out with you, brother, just a few months ago down in wherever the heck we were. Where were we, Tennessee? Tullahoma, Tennessee. Tullahoma, Tennessee, that's right. I go so many places, man, I forget sometimes.

And you're a street evangelist. We want to talk about that a little bit, but first and foremost, can you give us a little background on you? Like, you married, you got kids, like what are you all about?

What makes Tom tick? What.

Makes me tick? Well, so I'll tell you, you know, I'm one of those guys that when I became a Christian, I had a zeal like a lot of new believers do, you know, and the zeal for evangelism. You know, when I got saved, I just wanted to tell everybody what Christ had done for me and how he had transformed my life.

And the zeal just never went away. I just want to tell everybody about Christ everywhere I go. And so I am married to my wife, Debbie, and we've been married, golly, don't, so many years. Can't remember it exactly.

So since, yeah, I guess 20 years, since 2004. And she's my partner. We started evangelizing in Fredericksburg, Texas about three and a half years ago. We went on the streets, started handing out tracts, and started open-air preaching.

And recently as last year, a new member at Grace Bible Church of Bernie, Texas, and we were able to bring street evangelism to our church and having the elders support that. And so now, as we go out, we've been going out at least once a week for the past three, three and a half years.

Fredericksburg is an interesting community. So it's a tourist town of about 10 ,000 people in the population, kind of high-end. Everybody's doing pretty well for themselves. Fredericksburg used to be popular for their peaches, but now it's all about wine.

So anybody who lives in Texas, they travel to Fredericksburg. And so people will gather crowds around on a Saturday. During Christmas, they have a huge light show, and we go out three times a week for the month of November and December.

And we go out, and crowds come out to see the lights, and as many as 800 to 900 people, I mean even in the thousands, that will be there to hear the gospel in open air, and it's pretty awesome. Wow. Yeah, so it's.

Fun too, because I heard a little bit of the Texas pronunciation in tourist, because up here we say a tourist. You had a little bit of that George W. Bush, a tourist. It could be worse. No, I like it.

So what's the response been? I know we're gonna get to some other stuff, but what's the response been over the last three years? I mean, are people open to it? Are they like throwing tomatoes at you? Like what's.

Going on? Yeah, so it's a very conservative city. So I would say conservative politically, but very liberal theologically. So it's a type of city where everybody's doing very well for themselves. They're successful in their living.

They have a lot of money. There's a lot of money there. So it's almost like you have to get them into hell before you get them into heaven. They don't realize that they're sinners there. Everybody would think that they're earning their way into heaven on their own performance, and their own goodness, and their own righteousness.

And so we need to tell them, you know, what is it that you're actually trusting in for eternal life? Every single one of them out there would call themselves a Christian. Not very many. So there's not a lot of opposition there.

It's like, okay, well, what exactly are you trusting in for eternal life? And most of the time we would get a works answer. So the benefit of being in Fredericksburg, too, especially being there for three and a half years, we're literally right across from the police station.

So they know my face. They know my name. They wouldn't know my wife's name. And we go out there, and they'll have events at this park that we go to. And people will get upset then that we're interrupting their event or whatever.

And they'll tell the police, you know, hey, get him out of here. And they're saying, no, you know, free speech. So the police are very cooperative. So it's actually a pretty good thing. It could be a different animal if we were in Austin or San Antonio.

Yeah, I had some guys on when we first started the podcast. They had a podcast called Bigfoot Revival, and it was two gentlemen from South Carolina. And they explained there's a certain thing kind of in the South where everyone just kind of says, yeah, I'm a Christian.

Yeah, I'm a, you know, I believe in God. Yep, I'm a good old boy. And I go to work, and I come home, you know. And it's like you said, you got to take them to hell before you get to heaven, because it's just like, they're just like, oh, no, I'm a pretty good person.

And everyone believes, air quotes, in God. And it was like they realized it was a real mission field of mediocrity, of, you know, of secularism, of paganism, basically blanketed in, yeah, I believe in something up there.

And that kind of sounds like what you're saying that area of Texas is like as well, too, which I would say sometimes has even got to be a harder, harder ministry, or harder pitch, or whatever you want to say, than someone who knows nothing of God, or.

It's definitely harder ground, because they don't think that they're doing anything wrong. They really don't recognize a need for God. Yeah. So a lot of the a lot of things that we start off with when we're going out there is, you know, they'll, they'll all be hand in hand walking down the streets.

And, and we'll say, you know, the person that you're with you, you spend time with them in your life, you know, how much time do you spend with God? You know, did you wake up this morning thinking whether or not you're right with God?

Did you think about and thank him for his creation and everything that he's given us? And the fact of the matter is, we don't think about them. And so one of the ways that that we could get them to think about their sin is we'll say, you know, you know, you think you're good, but who are you comparing yourself with?

You know, you're comparing yourself with other men. And so a lot of times, I'll just throw this out. I'll just say, you know, if there was a machine that can record your thoughts, you know, just your thoughts for the past week, and it was posted on social media, you know, the fact of the matter is we would every, every single one of us would run if they heard our thoughts, you know, and so and a lot of people and it resonates with people.

So they get that the other method that we use, because, you know, people are going about their own business. So it's kind of hard to cold call, you know, we're not Ray Comfort where, where we actually have people aren't doing interviews, we're, we're interrupting their, their, whatever they're going about their day.

And so we've set up a whiteboard. And it basically says, you know, are you going to heaven? And, and they'll walk by and I'll say, here's a pen, you know, go mark your answer. They'll say, yes, no, I don't know, whatever.

And they'll mark and they've engaged us when they hit the whiteboard. So it really breaks up that, that, that challenge of being able to strike up a conversation, just cold. They're actually engaging us.

So it makes it a lot easier.

Yeah. Okay. So, and I know we're probably jumping around here and on the order of what we discussed, we're going to talk about, but let's stay on the subject because I find it very interesting. I've only done open air preaching maybe three times my entire life.

I've never really been called to it. But I think everyone's really called to it, honestly, if we're, if we're going to, you know, be honest about it. But when I did it, I w it was, it was very you know, at first I thought, Oh, what am I going to say?

Or how do you fill the time? And it's like, Oh no, you're just out there. You know, not believe me. I can carry a conversation and talk. It was awesome, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I've heard some Christians go and you brought up a point when you said it, their point of it's not effective.

You're interrupting people when they're, you know, at a park, watching a show, you're getting off on the wrong foot. Uh, why would you want to just start talking about the love of Christ and the gospel when you're already upset them and interrupted their, whatever it is, a family time or part time or whatever it is.

And I've heard Christians that are really against it. Um, and say, no, we shouldn't do that. It should be either more personal or bring them to church or whatever. And we can talk about that. But what would your response be to someone who might give that objection?

Who's actually a believer and goes, I don't think it's effective and I don't think it's a good representation of a Christian even.

Right. So that's, that's absolutely true. The, um, not only, uh, do we get resistance from the world, but we do get resistance from people inside the church. Um, even in the reform community, but being that we are reformed and we believe in the sovereignty of God and we understand how God saves people, there's nothing of our own doing.

And we believe that that the gospel is preached and God, there's power in the, in the gospel. Uh, we know that it's not in ourselves pitch. It's nothing that we're doing. Then we know that the scripture says that his word will not, uh, return void.

And so we, we are confident that regardless of the response, uh, we're not doing it for numbers. We're confident knowing that God will call his sheep to himself. His sheep will hear his voice. And so we go out there knowing that God has glorified just as much of it.

If people reject the gospel, he's also glorified if they, if, if they accept it. So, uh, a lot of people think that, you know, well, you know, we're not gonna have any numbers. We're not getting any success rate.

We're not getting any turns. We don't see the fruit of someone's repentance, but he's talks about that in the parable, the sower seed in the, in the soils, you know, the seed is sown. God's word is sown and he gives the increase, you know, so, uh, and there's some people who are going to gladly receive it and then, and then fall away.

There's some people that are, um, who, who, you know, receive it on rocky ground. You know, it talks about that. It's just hard, hard ground and it just bounces off. And, and so there's all types of different things, which is the reason why we don't go for a sinner's prayer.

We're not trying to get anybody to say a prayer, parrot this prayer after me, and you're all of a sudden saved. No, it's a, it's a living faith that only the Holy spirit can do. Only the Holy spirit can make us alive.

So we're confident in knowing that, uh, God will accomplish exactly what he sets up to do with his word. So, and so we go.

Yeah. I would also say too, um, you know, when, uh, we stand before the judgment seat too, and, and the Lord says, did I not command you to go out through the world and preach the good news? And you go, well, I couldn't know.

He was watching a concert in the park and I didn't really want to interrupt him. And the Lord's going to go, yeah, someone's soul in the balance. That wasn't important enough. Huh? And that's kind of how I view some of these things as I get older too.

Um, when, when people want to kind of conform to people's, uh, comfort levels when it comes to the gospel. Right. And we see this in churches with, Oh, there's coffee and there's popcorn and there's, you know, stage shows.

And it's like, no, we just need to preach the gospel because just like you said, very, very well, you said it very well is, um, the sheep will hear his voice and God will be glorified no matter what. Yeah.

No, that's good stuff. So, so you're doing the street evangelism. Um, what's the, uh, even if none podcast, what's that all about? When is it launching? How does that tie in even with your ministry, with what you're doing with open air preaching?

It does it at all.

Yeah, it does. As a matter of fact, the, so the, the title, even if none actually comes from a book by Ryan Denton and it's, uh, even if none recovering biblical evangelism, and, uh, it's all about street preaching.

It's all about being obedient to the call to go out and proclaim the gospel. Um, and, and knowing that this is a, this is a way to get the gospel God's word into the community. Um, and, and the whole premise behind the book is, is a lot of people, especially within the last a hundred years, uh, would say that evangelism is all about results.

Let's, let's give them a sales pitch. Let's, let's convince them to say this prayer. Um, even if none means that it's regardless of anybody coming, uh, even if none come, God is glorified. Again, the gospel is going forth and God is pleased with the faithfulness of, of his word going out.

Even if none come, God is glorified. And so the, the book is an excellent book. And I, uh, matter of fact, I'm giving away, uh, I think we have 30 books that we're giving away to a couple of people that have, uh, have, uh, subscribed to the, to the group.

And, uh, anyway, and we're going to have Ryan Denton on, we're going to have Claude Ramsey on half status and some other guys that, that were with the conference to talk about the importance of going out and evangelizing.

Um, now one of the things that, that, that we really wanted, so what, right now you kind of see, uh, you know, a little bit of a resurgence of people open air preaching and there's different methods and stuff.

And there was, it's interesting. I think it was DL Moody, uh, that he was talking to this lady one time and she said, you know, I really don't like the way you're evangelizing. And he didn't, they, she didn't like the method.

And he looks at her and he tells her, he goes, dear lady, he said, he said, uh, if I could remember this, he said, um, he said, golly, I just lost it.

I've done that before. I'm trying to think. And so, you know, it's, you know, it's really bad is when you realize everything you're saying on a podcast is recorded and I've went back and went, oh, that's not the right quote with the right person.

And I attributed it to the wrong person, but then it's out there. And I'm like, what do I do? And I go back and, you know, I think I said Elisha once instead of Elijah as well. And I was like, I knew I made, you know, mess that up anyway.

Yeah, I think so. If I, so she, she looked at him, she goes, she didn't like his method. And he goes, you're a dear lady. He goes, uh, golly, I don't know it. Oh, that's awesome.

No, it's all good. Uh, yeah. So, well, so you were talking about the conference too, and the conference for people listening, uh, you're referencing, um, what is the conference called this year? Because he just changed it.

It's on sanctification, but is it called war? It is. So let me see here.

I got it on my phone here. It's, it's more the spirit versus the flesh have some amazing speakers this year.

Yeah. Who are some of the speakers? Cause I know, uh, Virgil Walker, a man, Virgil Walker just got, uh, added. Um, who else?

Okay. So we have, yeah, I do. So the G3 just came out with the conference and Paul Washer was supposed to be there, be there in South, uh, South Lake, Texas. And he wasn't able to come because of his heart condition.

So they got Hemsworth Jonas. If you've never heard of him. Oh my gosh. Just wait till you hear this guy. So we, I reached out to him on Facebook, messaged him. Hey man, can you be a part of this conference?

And so he gave me a day, looked at his schedule. He goes, yep, I'm in. So he's in. So we have, uh, uh, yeah, Hemsworth Jonas. We have Kofi. Um, we have Marlon Wilson, Ryan Denton, who's the author of the book that I was just talking about.

Michael Schultz, Virgil Walker, Austin Keeler, who's the, the Holy note. Uh, we have Jeremiah Notier, Keith Foskey, the nice Calvinist. Uh, uh, we have Claude Ramsey, Jeff Rice, Sam Waldron, myself and Brayden Patterson.

Wow. That is a heck of a good lineup.

Yeah, that is. Yeah. We're excited. And that's this February and guys, you'll be hearing more about that as we get closer to that. We're going to be talking about that. Having some of the guests on before that.

I know it seems a long way away to February, 2025, but with the summer just flies by next thing, you know, you're into the holidays and it's time to start going to the conference. So, um, that's, and that's going to be in Tullahoma again, right?

It is. So I, I don't think it's going to be in the same place. I think, uh, uh, Jeff was able to get a church that holds a little bit more people and it's going to be nice. It's going to be more comfortable.

Uh, there's also going to be an evangelism pre-show.

Okay. Evangelism pre-conference because you guys did some open air preaching at the last one, just a few months ago. Didn't you? I think a group of people went out and did that. Who was, who was the group over there?

I think it was Brian named.

Is that his name? Uh, with hearts of the lost. I think he was there and I want to say absolute with him. I'm not, I'm not positive who all went out, uh, with them, but it's, we're, we're, we really want to push it this year.

Yeah. Okay. So here's a crazy thought that just popped into my head and I don't even know if it's true, but it just seems like it is. So I'm going to say it. Uh, to me, it seems like all of the like, um, charismatic and, uh, like, like I'm thinking of like assemblies of God, like the non-denominational charismatic, they're like really big into missions overseas.

And then I feel like most of the reform guys, most of your street preachers are in like that reformed Calvinistic camp, and I don't know why we go into those veins. Now look at, it's a, probably a stereotype that may not hold true.

But I think, I think if you sussed it out, I bet you, you'd see a large percentage of one group of Christians going to international missions and the other one going to domestic open air and street evangelism.

Why do you think that is? I mean, is it our theology that's driving that? Or is that just like church politics or, or maybe, or have you not noticed that? I have.

So, so I think, um, I think what's, what's happening is, is the, the world is pressing in on us, you know, from all sides and, and I think the, the reform community is grounded in, in knowing that God is sovereign and we're not gonna, we're not gonna stand and just let the world walk all over us.

And so I think we're being a little more bold and going out and we're not going to let, you know, the world have our children. We're not going to let the world say, you know, that there's only that there's, there's multiple genders.

And so we want to take the gospel. We, we're not going to battle that politically. We're going to battle it with the gospel. Um, the only way we're going to change anything, these, these, these communities that are going to change is going to be through the power of the Holy Spirit, through the, through the preaching of the word.

Um, so the biggest issue is, is that there, there are many in the reform camp in, in our churches. It's, it's one of the hardest things to get, get going at a church. And, uh, and that's part of the other reason why I wanted to talk to you, um, about, about children.

So there's an issue of, you know, there's all kinds of excuses why people don't go out and evangelize. And it's either, either they don't feel like they're equipped. Uh, they think it's somebody else's gifting, but, you know, saying that is like saying, you know, uh, I don't have the gift to serve.

Uh, so you guys go serve and I'm not going to serve, but we're all called to serve in the same way we're all called to, to go out and evangelize. Now that looks differently, but there's a reason why we don't do it.

Um, and I think it's because for decades, for decades, we've not included evangelism or discipleship. Now, you know, as well as I do that, I don't know, do you guys homeschool at your church?

Or you probably know several. Okay. So there's, there's all my kids are homeschooled. Yeah.

Right. So the reform community especially does, does well at, at, at evangelism, evangelizing our children and then disciple them. We teach them, you know, that God's word is, is, uh, is authoritative.

You know, we teach them that, um, once we become Christians and adopted into the family of God, now we have the privilege of being able to going to our father in prayer, um, to, to ask him to help us, you know, we, we talk about the, uh, um, the importance of going to church and hearing the preaching word, and so we're teaching our children, uh, all these things to, to, uh, to form us and, and to, and to make good disciples of Christ.

Um, additionally, you know, we teach, we teach them about the, the importance of baptism and, uh, a continuing sign through communion and then the fellowship of the saints. So we, we have the, the word of God, prayer, fellowship, going to church, all this stuff, and the one thing that we leave out is evangelism.

Yeah. And so what happens is, is, is that there's no model through the churches. Uh, there's no model through, through parenting. Um, no, but no, these kids at five years old, um, aren't able to witness their parents evangelize people to see what it's like, and so it's totally foreign to, to us when, uh, when we say, Hey, come on out and evangelize with us.

They have no idea what to say. They have no idea where to start. And it's because they've not been trained since there was a child. Um, so, and that's kind of the thing, you know, imagine if we were to train up our children and once a month, just once a month in regular evangelism to go out knocking on doors from the time they're five years old, by the time they're 19, it's going to be a regular way of their life.

It's not going to be foreign at all. And there'll be more comfortable doing there. There's not going to be the excuses of being an introvert or, uh, not gifting or not prepared and not knowing what to say.

So that's what I want to try and do. We, we want to encourage people to disciple their children, um, and the church leaders to create events that the entire church is involved with. Imagine the witness that would happen that if 50 people went outside on the corner once a month, um, and just, and shared the gospel, I think cross would be magnified and it could transform lives.

Yeah. So I, I was kind of thinking about that when, when you were saying that even a few days ago when we were talking offline and I just went, I don't think I've ever attended a church or even really know of a church that really includes children in evangelism in that way.

Uh, very few churches that even do open air preaching and street evangelism, but on top of that, to have children included. And I wonder why we, why is that just kind of ignored? And it's crazy because I go to a church that really doesn't focus on that.

Look at, I'm not complaining about my church. I absolutely love it. I think we get a lot of things right in a lot of areas, but we're a confessional reformed Presbyterian evangelical church. Uh, you know, a lot of homeschoolers, a lot of, you know, got all this stuff going on and we're very, um, family oriented.

Uh, I, I said when I started attending that church a few years ago, I walked in, I have three kids, I was like, Oh, I'm not even reformed. I mean, the average family has seven kids in it. You know what I mean?

It was like, go forth and multiply. We take that mandate. We study the Westminster. We love the word of God, all these things. But yet we don't, we don't do anything with children in evangelism in that way.

And I just go, I wonder why that is. I wonder why we've just kind of let that fall to the wayside and we go, well, that one's not that important for the majority of churches, I think it is. Right. Absolutely.

I think like I, like I said, it's been decades of, of parents not teaching. So unless we can create a generation of people that are, of Christians that grow up in Christian households and raising them up where evangelism is a part of life, it's, it's a, it's a part of a way of their life as they go on and living this life, you know, touching and everybody that we visit in the community, um, you know, mom's getting their hairdress, you know, getting their hair done by a hairdresser, they should be sharing the gospel, but, but the training would be through street evangelism through knocking on doors.

Uh, you know, what's amazing to me. So not long ago, um, we started door to door evangelism in Bernie, Texas, kind of uppity place. Um, but everybody has those doorbells now where, uh, where, you know, you get a notification on your phone before you even go to the door.

And so nobody answers the door. And so, uh, my friend Bobby Trejo, he's a deacon at the church and he had said that this, this whole neighborhood map up and we'd go knocking on doors and we hit 450 doors and hit, we actually talked to 12 people.

And so, yeah, it was, it was pretty incredible. What the interesting thing was, is that I posted that on Facebook that, you know, evangelism door to door, isn't like what it used to be because of this, this, uh, ring doorbell that they have now.

Um, and Jeffrey Rice actually replied and he goes, he said, no man, he goes door to door is fantastic here, you know? So it's amazing when you think about culturally how, how different evangelism, what it looks like in your neighborhood, in your city, um, compared to someone else, the city.

And then Michael Schultz was talking about it. It, you know, he, I think he lives in Kentucky and he goes to the knock on the door and they just yell out, Hey, come on in. You know, they don't know who's at the door, but because of where he lives, you know, they're inviting him in.

Hey, we're getting ready to have dinner, honey. Michael's here. Uh, you know, what do you have to say, pastor? You know, and it's just not like that here.

I would definitely think that open air preaching and door to door and stuff like that is, is definitely, there's a strategic thing of geographically where, where you're at, how your community's organized.

You might be in a city that has a very communal town square and that's the best place you might be in a city that's a little more segregated with subdivisions and door knocking is the way to go. So yeah, I'd have to imagine that it's more strategic like that.

And then to touch on something you said earlier, just the practical worldly value of getting your children out in front of people and talking to them. We have a lot of families at our church, which, um, the younger kids have to go talk, starting at three years old, have to go talk to two adults every Sunday and carry on a conversation with them, pick two new adults.

Right. And that's a way to socialize and get them talking to it. Right. But I think back to my dad owned a computer wholesaling business when I was growing up and I remember I was like 12 years old or 10 years old and he gave me a box of a soundboards and for all you young Gen Zers out there, you don't even know what a soundboard is, but it was a peripheral that you could buy separately and then you built your own computer and you put it in there.

He said, and we're at a trade show. He says, don't come back until they're all sold. So I'm, I'm going around from vendor to vendor trying to work out a sales pitch. Right. By the time I was 14 or 15, not only was I, well, actually by 16, I'm driving to those, you know, taking a cargo truck with me and setting up and selling on my own, but I had no problem talking, not only talking to another adult, but making deals, tens of thousands of dollars in deals and right into, you know, maybe it lends myself to do a podcast and be a politician and talk in front of people.

I'm in real estate talking, but it was something I look back on and I go, boy, did I hate it for about a year? But I look back and I go, it developed my social skill, my able to, you know, my confidence to talk in front of people.

Now look at, I'm not saying that's why you go and evangelize, but I'm saying if you're a parent right now, listening, there's all kinds of added benefits to getting your children out. And not only that, but you're building little apologists.

They're, they're able to defend their faith. How many guys do you know, Tom, uh, that are, you know, that, that grow up in the church, they get into their late teens, early twenties, go off to college, get to a friend group, and they can't defend a single thing about what they were taught for 18 years sitting in that pew or that chair.

Yeah. I'll tell you, you know, when, when it, when it comes to our church and our, our church is pretty well versed. I mean, I would say comparatively speaking to other churches around us, uh, very mature believers, solid in doctrine, you know, but when it comes to evangelism, um, and people come out, so there's one of the days that I was, the events that we were talking about was a Christmas event and where the lights were coming out, we had 13 people from our church.