Tom Sheppard: How To Open Air Preach DMW#223

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exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location,

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Dead Men Walking starts now. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.

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Thanks for sharing with a friend. All glory to God. Thanks for checking us out at dmwpodcast .com

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where you can find out more about us. You can visit our snarky merch cave as well, too.

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Pick up your Wynham Dynam Romans Nynam shirt or the new I'm In My Prime with Doc Holliday.

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That's a good one. And then we just sold a few of the Why Don't You Shut Up and Let That Be Your Wisdom, Job 13 .5.

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People seem to like that one as well, so we will get you in trouble with your shirts if you wear them to church.

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That's all we're saying. But at the top of the show, guys, I want to remind you of our sponsors, Jacob's Supply. It's that time of year projects are in full swing and this guy has everything.

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I mean, he's got roofing, he's got flooring, he's got decking, he's got appliances, all 30, 40, 50 percent off.

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Located in Temperance, Michigan, but we got guys coming from 12, 14 hours away because the discounts are so deep.

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He buys out wholesale nationally, passes it on. He also ships nationally as well, too, and he's been a friend of the show, sponsor of the show.

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Was actually just hanging out with him a few hours ago, sat in his sauna. He's got this cool space at his place, too, where he's got a sauna, workout bench.

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He's got a massage table, everything for his workers. I mean, this guy, reformed brother -in -law, just doing it right for those guys.

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But for you, if you're doing a home project, you're a contractor, construction worker, whatever it is, if you need raw materials, man, they are the one -stop shop for products you need at prices you love.

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Check them out at jacobssupply .com or call them at 734 -224 -0978. They ship nationally.

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We want to make sure we support them. Two conferences I want to tell you about really quick. Two Workspace Conference coming up on June 28th and 29th, downtown

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Fort Worth, Texas. Our friend Kyle Hessler put that together. He's got all kinds of great speakers. They're doing

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Barron Psalms. They have guys like David Bonson, C .R. Wiley, Steve Jeffrey, David Reese, Andrew Krapiszczak.

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They're talking about the theology of work. It's a networking event as well, too, guys building things.

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So if you're an influencer at your work, an entrepreneur, small business owner, get to this conference. You can find it at workspace .com

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and get your tickets because it's just going to be, like I said, networking, theology.

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I mean, it's just going to be all those things to where, if you're building something for the kingdom of God, you want to get there and check that out.

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And then, of course, thank God for Bitcoin 2024. Last year they did one in Miami. This year they're in Rockettown, Nashville, July 24th and 25th, talking about the economy of money, the economy of how

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God tells us to use money. They're going to be talking not only Bitcoin, but also how we invest, how we build things, how we use money for the glory of God.

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They have guys like Michael Foster, C .R. Wiley again is there. He's a busy man this year. Dr. Ben Merkel, Dr. Glenn Sunshine, Nate Fisher, Jordan Bush, many, many more speakers.

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That's July 24th and 25th, Rockettown, Nashville. Get those tickets at tgfb .com.

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So guys, we want to make sure we support those conferences and those businesses because they are kind to the podcast as well.

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If you've noticed, my voice is kind of going like three days ago, I woke up with a sore throat. I went hoarse for about a day, started getting it back two days ago, and today

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I'm on the tail end of it. So if you hear me clear my throat a couple of times or I sound a little funny, I'm just getting it back.

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I don't know what I caught. I mean, I wasn't sick. Nothing really happened except I lost my voice. I don't know if that's the

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Lord telling me to stop talking as much. Maybe my wife's praying for it. I don't know. But yeah,

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I want to get right into it. We've got a guest. If you're watching, you see him there on the other side. Tom Shepard, he's a street evangelist from, well, he street evangelizes in Fredericksburg, Texas, host of the

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Even If None podcast, which is coming out very soon. He was a participant, going to be a speaker at the war conference on sanctification with Jeffrey Rice and Open Air Theology next

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February. I met him down there this year and we stayed in the same house and it was an absolute blast.

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So we're excited to talk about those things, street evangelism, the Even If None podcast, also talking about the conference we're going to be at in February.

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Tom, what's going on, brother? All right, how are you, man? Good, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, glad to be here.

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Yeah, so it was cool hanging out with you, brother, just a few months ago down in wherever the heck we were.

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Where were we, Tennessee? Tullahoma, Tennessee. Tullahoma, Tennessee, that's right. I go so many places, man,

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I forget sometimes. And you're a street evangelist, we want to talk about that a little bit, but first and foremost, can you give us a little background on you?

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Like, you're married, you got kids, like what are you all about? What makes Tom tick? What makes me tick?

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Well, so I'll tell you, you know, I'm one of those guys that when I became a Christian, I had a zeal like a lot of new believers do, you know, and the zeal for evangelism.

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You know, when I got saved, I just wanted to tell everybody what Christ had done for me and how he had transformed my life.

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And the zeal just never went away. I just want to tell everybody about Christ everywhere

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I go. And so I am married to my wife, Debbie, and we've been married, golly, so many years.

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Can't remember it exactly. So since, yeah, I guess 20 years, since 2004. And she's my partner.

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We started evangelizing in Fredericksburg, Texas, about three and a half years ago.

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We went on the streets, started handing out tracts, and started open -air preaching. And recently as last year, a new member at Grace Bible Church of Burney, Texas.

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And we were able to bring street evangelism to our church and having the elders support that.

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And so now as we go out, we've been going out at least once a week for the past three, three and a half years.

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Fredericksburg's an interesting community. So it's a tourist town of about 10 ,000 people in the population.

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Kind of high -end. Everybody's doing pretty well for themselves. Fredericksburg used to be popular for their peaches, but now it's all about wine.

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So anybody who lives in Texas, they travel to Fredericksburg. And so people will gather crowds around on a

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Saturday. During Christmas, they have a huge light show. And we go out three times a week for the month of November and December.

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And we go out and crowds come out to see the lights. And as many as 800 to 900 people,

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I mean, even in the thousands, that will be there to hear the gospel in open air. And it's pretty awesome.

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Wow. Yeah. So it's fun, too, because I heard a little bit of the Texas pronunciation in tourist.

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Because up here we say a tourist. You had a little bit of that George W. Bush, a tourist.

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Yeah, it could be worse. No, I like it. So what's the response been? I know we're gonna get to some other stuff, but what's the response been over the last three years?

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I mean, are people open to it? Are they like throwing tomatoes at you? Like, what's going on? Yeah, so it's a very conservative city.

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So I would say conservative politically, but very liberal theologically. So it's a type of city where everybody's doing very well for themselves.

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They're successful in their living. They have a lot of money. There's a lot of money there. So it's almost like you have to get them into hell before you get them into heaven.

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They don't realize that they're sinners there. Everybody would think that they're earning their way into heaven on their own performance and their own goodness and their own righteousness.

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And so we need to tell them, you know, what is it that you're actually trusting in for eternal life? Every single one of them out there would call themselves a

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Christian. Yeah. Not very many. So there's not a lot of opposition there. It's like, okay, well, what exactly are you trusting in for eternal life?

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And most of the time we would get a worse answer. So the benefit of being in Fredericksburg too, especially being there for three and a half years, we're literally right across from the police station.

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So they know my face, they know my name, they know my wife's name. And we go out there and they'll have events at this park that we go to.

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And people will get upset then that we're interrupting their event or whatever. And they'll tell the police, you know, hey, get him out of here.

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And they're saying, no, he's, you know, free speech. So the police are very cooperative. So it's, it's actually a pretty good thing.

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It could be a different animal if we were in Austin or San Antonio. Yeah, I had some guys on when we first started the podcast, they had a podcast called

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Bigfoot Revival. And it was two gentlemen from South Carolina. And they explained there's a certain thing kind of in the south, where everyone just kind of says, yeah,

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I'm a Christian. Yeah, I'm a, you know, I believe in God. Yep. I'm a good old boy. And I go to work and I come home, you know, and it's like, like you said, you got to take him to hell before you get to heaven.

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Because it's just like, they're just like, Oh, no, I'm pretty good person. And everyone believes air quotes in God.

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And it was like, they realized it was a real mission field of mediocrity of, you know, of secularism of paganism, basically blanketed in.

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Yeah, I believe in something up there. And that's kind of sounds like what you're saying. That area of Texas is like as well, too, which

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I which I would say sometimes is even got to be a harder, harder ministry or harder pitch or whatever you want to say, than someone who knows nothing of God.

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Or it's definitely harder ground. Because they don't think that they're doing anything wrong. They really don't recognize a need for God.

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Yeah. So a lot of the a lot of things that we start off with when we're going out there is, you know, they'll they'll all be hand in hand walking down the streets.

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And, and we'll say, you know, the person that you're with you, you spend time with them in your life. You know, how much time do you spend with God?

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You know, did you wake up this morning thinking whether or not you're right with God? Did you think about and thank him for his creation and everything that he's given us?

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And the fact of the matter is, we don't think about them. And so one of the ways that that we could get them to think about their sin is we'll say, you know, you know, you think you're good, but who are you comparing yourself with?

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You know, you're comparing yourself with other men. And so a lot of times, I'll just throw this out, I'll just say, you know, if there was a machine that can record your thoughts, you know, just your thoughts for the past week, and it was posted on social media, you know, the fact of the matter is, we would every single one of us would run if they heard our thoughts, you know, and so and a lot of people and it resonates with people.

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So they get that the other method that we use, because, you know, people are going about their own business. So it's kind of hard to cold call, you know, we're not

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Ray Comfort, where, where we actually have people are doing interviews, we're, we're interrupting their, their, whatever they're going about their day.

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And so we've set up a whiteboard. And it basically says, you know, are you going to heaven? And, and they'll walk by and I'll say, here's a pen, you know, go mark your answer.

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And they'll say, yes, no, I don't know, whatever. And they'll mark and they've engaged us when they hit the whiteboard.

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So it really breaks up that, that, that challenge of being able to strike up a conversation, just cold, they're actually engaging us.

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So it makes it a lot easier. Yeah, okay. So, and I know we're probably jumping around here and on the order of what we discussed, we're going to talk about, but let's stay on the subject, because I find it very interesting.

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I've only done open air preaching, maybe three times my entire life, I've never really been called to it.

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But I think everyone's really called to it, honestly, for if we're gonna, you know, be honest about it. But when I did it,

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I would, it was, it was very, you know, at first I thought, Oh, what am I going to say? Or how do you fill the time?

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And it's like, Oh, no, you're just out there. You know, believe me, I can carry a conversation and talk. It was awesome.

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But I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I've heard some Christians go, and you brought up a point when you said it, their point of, it's not effective.

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You're interrupting people when they're, you know, at a park watching a show, you're getting off on the wrong foot.

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Why would you want to just start talking about the love of Christ and the gospel when you're already upset them and interrupted their, whatever it is, family time or part time or whatever it is?

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And I've heard Christians that are really against it and say, no, we shouldn't do that.

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It should be either more personal or bring them to church or whatever. And we can talk about that. But what would your response be to someone who might give that objection?

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Who's actually a believer and goes, I don't think it's effective. And I don't think it's a good representation of a

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Christian even. Right. So that's, that's absolutely true. The, um, not only, uh, do we get resistance from the world, but we do get resistance from people inside the church.

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Um, even in the reform community, but being that we are reformed and we believe in the sovereignty of God and we understand how

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God saves people. There's nothing of our own doing. And we believe that, that the gospel is preached and God, there's power in the, in the gospel.

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Uh, we know that it's not in ourselves pitch. It's nothing that we're doing. Then we know that the scripture says that his word will not, uh, return void.

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And so we, we are confident that regardless of the response, uh, we're not doing it for numbers.

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We're confident knowing that God will call his sheep to himself. His sheep will hear his voice.

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And so we go out there knowing that God has glorified just as much of it. If people reject the gospel, he's also glorified if they, if, if they accept it.

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So, uh, a lot of people think that, you know, well, you know, we're not gonna have any numbers. We're not getting any success rate.

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We're not getting any turns. We don't see the fruit of someone's repentance, but he's talks about that in the parable, the sower seed in the, in the soils, you know, the seed is sown.

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God's word is sown and he gives the increase, you know, so, uh, and there's some people who are going to gladly receive it and then, and then fall away.

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There's some people that are, um, who, who, you know, receive it on rocky ground. You know, it talks about that.

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It's just hard, hard ground and it just bounces off. And, and so there's all types of different things, which is the reason why we don't go for a sinner's prayer.

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We're not trying to get anybody to say a prayer, parrot this prayer after me, and you're all of a sudden saved.

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No, it's a, it's a living faith that only the Holy spirit can do. Only the Holy spirit can make us alive.

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So we're confident in knowing that God will accomplish exactly what he sets out to do with his word.

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So, and so we go. Yeah. I would also say too, um, you know, when we stand before the judgment seat too, and the

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Lord says, did I not command you to go out through the world and preach the good news? And you go, well, I couldn't know he was watching a concert in the park and I didn't really want to interrupt him.

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And the Lord's going to go, yeah, someone's soul in the balance that wasn't important enough. And that's kind of how

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I view some of these things as I get older too. Um, when, when people want to kind of conform to people's, uh, comfort levels when it comes to the gospel.

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Right. And we see this in churches with, Oh, there's coffee and there's popcorn and there's, you know, stage shows and it's like, no, we just need to preach the gospel because just like you said, very, very well, you said it very well is, um, the sheep will hear his voice and God will be glorified no matter what.

15:56

Yeah, no, that's good stuff. So, so you're doing the street evangelism. Um, what's the, uh, even if none podcast, what's that all about?

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When is it launching? How does that tie in even with your ministry, with what you're doing with open air preaching? It does it at all. Yeah, it does.

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As a matter of fact, the, so the, the title, even if none actually comes from a book by Ryan Denton and it's, uh, even if none recovering biblical evangelism.

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And, uh, it's all about street preaching. It's all about being obedient to the call to go out and proclaim the gospel.

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Um, and, and knowing that this is a, this is a way to get the gospel, God's word into the community.

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Um, and, and the whole premise behind the book is, is a lot of people, especially within the last a hundred years, uh, would say that evangelism is all about results.

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Let's, let's give them a sales pitch. Let's, let's convince them to say this prayer. Um, even if none means that it's regardless of anybody coming, uh, even if none come,

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God is glorified. Again, the gospel is going forth and God is pleased with the faithfulness of, of his word going out.

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Even if none come, God is glorified. And so the, the book is an excellent book.

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And I, uh, matter of fact, I'm giving away, uh, I think we have 30 books that we're giving away to a couple of people that have, have subscribed to the, to the group.

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And, uh, anyway, and we're going to have Ryan Denton on, we're going to have Claude Ramsey on half status and some other guys that, that were with the conference to talk about the importance of going out and evangelizing.

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Um, now one of the things that, that, that we really wanted, so what, right now you kind of see a, uh, you know, a little bit of a resurgence of people open air preaching and there's different methods and stuff.

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And there was, it's interesting. I think it was DL Moody, uh, that he was talking to this lady one time and she said, you know,

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I really don't like the way you're evangelizing. And he didn't, they, she didn't like the method. And he looks at her and he tells her, he goes, dear lady, he said, he said, uh, if I could remember this, he said, um, he said, golly,

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I just lost it. I've done that before. I'm trying to think.

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You know, you know, it's, you know, it's really bad is when you realize everything you're saying on a podcast is recorded.

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And I've went back and oh, that's not the right quote with the right person. I attributed it to the wrong person, but then it's out there and I'm like, what do

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I do? And I go back and you know, uh, I think I said Elisha once instead of Elijah as well. And I was like,

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I knew I made, you know, mess that up. Anyway. Yeah, I think so.

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If I, so she, she looked at her, she goes, she didn't like his method and he goes, you're dear lady.

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He goes, uh, golly, I don't know it. Oh, that's awesome.

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I should have wrote it down. No, it's all good. Uh, yeah. So, well, so you do, we're talking about the conference too and the conference for people listening.

18:51

Uh, you're referencing, um, what is the conference called this year? Because he just changed it.

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It's on sanctification, but is it called war? It is. So let me see here. I got it on my phone here.

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It's, it's war. The spirit versus the flesh have some amazing speakers this year.

19:07

Yeah. Who are some of the speakers? Cause I know, uh, Virgil Walker, my man,

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Virgil Walker just got, uh, added. Um, who else? Okay. So the

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G three just came out with a conference and Paul Washer was supposed to be there, be there in South, uh,

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South Lake, Texas. And he wasn't able to come because of his heart condition. So they got Hemsworth Jonas.

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If you've never heard of him. Oh my gosh. Just wait till you hear this guy. So we,

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I reached out to him on Facebook, messaged him, Hey man, can you be a part of this conference?

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And so he gave me a day, looked at his schedule. He goes, yep, I'm in. So he's in.

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So we have, uh, uh, yeah. Hemsworth Jonas. We have Kofi. Um, we have

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Marlon Wilson, Ryan Denton, who's the author of the book that I was just talking about. Michael Schultz, Virgil Walker, Austin Keeler, who's the, the

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Holy note. Uh, we have Jeremiah Notier, Keith Foskey, the nice Calvinist.

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Uh, we have Claude Ramsey, Jeff Rice, Sam Waldron, myself, and Braden Patterson. Wow.

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That is a heck of a good lineup. Yeah, that is. Yeah. We're excited. And that's this

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February and guys, you'll be hearing more about that. As we get closer to that, we're going to be talking about that. Having some of the guests on before that.

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I know it seems a long way away to February, 2025, but with the summer just flies by next thing, you know, you're into the holidays and it's time to start going to the conference.

20:36

So, um, that's, and that's going to be in Tullahoma again, right? It is. So I, I don't think it's going to be in the same place.

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I think, uh, uh, Jeff was able to get a church that holds a little bit more people and it's going to be nice.

20:48

It's going to be more comfortable. Uh, there's also going to be an evangelism pre -show. Okay. Evangelism pre -conference because you guys did some open air preaching at the last one, just a few months ago, didn't you?

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I think a group of people went out and did that. A group who was, who was the group over there? I think it was

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Brian named, is that his name? Uh, with hearts of the lost. I think he was there.

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And I want to say Hapswell with them. I'm not, I'm not positive who all went out with them, but it's, we're, we're, we really want to push it this year.

21:20

Yeah. Okay. So here's a crazy thought that just popped into my head and I don't even know if it's true, but it just seems like it is.

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So I'm going to say it. Uh, to me it seems like all of the like, um, charismatic and, uh, like, like I'm thinking like assemblies of God, like the non -denominational charismatic, they're like really big into missions overseas.

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And then I feel like most of the reform guys, most of your street preachers are in like that reformed

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Calvinistic camp. And I don't know why we go into those veins. Now look at it's a price stereotype that may not hold true.

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But I think, I think if you sussed it out, I bet you, you'd see a large percentage of one group of Christians going to international missions and the other one going to domestic open air and street evangelism.

22:12

Why do you think that is? I mean, is it our theology that's driving that? Or is that just like church politics or, or maybe, or have you not noticed that?

22:22

So, so I think, um, I think what's, what's happening is, is the, the world is pressing in on us, you know, from all sides.

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And, and I think the, the reform community is grounded in, in knowing that God is sovereign and we're not gonna, we're not going to stand and just let the world walk all over us.

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And so I think we're being a little more bold and going out and we're not going to let, you know, the world have our children.

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We're not going to let the world say, you know, that there's only that there's, there's multiple genders.

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And so we want to take the gospel. We, we're not going to battle that politically. We're going to battle it with the gospel.

22:58

Um, the only way we're going to change anything, these, these, these communities that are going to change is going to be through the power of the

23:04

Holy Spirit, through the, through the preaching of the word. Um, so the biggest issue is, is that there, there are many in the reform camp in, in our churches.

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It's, it's one of the hardest things to get, get going at a church. And, uh, and that's part of the other reason why

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I wanted to talk to you, um, about, about children. So there's an issue of, you know, there's all kinds of excuses why people don't go out and evangelize.

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And it's either, either they don't feel like they're equipped. Uh, they think it's somebody else's gifting. But, you know, saying that is like saying, you know, uh,

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I don't have the gift to serve. Uh, so you guys go serve and I'm not going to serve, but we're all called to serve in the same way.

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We're all called to, to go out and evangelize. Now that looks differently, but there's a reason why we don't do it.

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Um, and I think it's because for decades, for decades, we've not included evangelism or discipleship.

23:58

Now, you know, as well as I do that, I don't know. Do you guys homeschool at your church? Or you probably know several. Okay. So there's, there's all my kids are homeschooled.

24:07

Right. So the reform community, especially does, does well at, at, at, at evangelism, evangelizing our children and then disciple them.

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We teach them, you know, that God's word is, is, uh, is authoritative. You know, we teach them that, um, once we become

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Christians and adopted into the family of God, now we have the privilege of being able to going to our father in prayer, um, to, to ask him to help us.

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You know, we, we talk about the, uh, um, the importance of going to church and hearing the preaching word.

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And so we're teaching our children, uh, all these things to, to, uh, to form us and, and to, and to make good disciples of Christ.

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Um, additionally, you know, we teach, we teach them about the importance of baptism and, uh, a continuing sign through communion and then the fellowship of the saints.

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So we, we have the word of God, prayer, fellowship, going to church, all this stuff. And the one thing that we leave out is evangelism.

25:02

Yeah. And so what happens is, is, is that there's no model through the churches. Uh, there's no model through, through parenting.

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Um, no, but no, these kids at five years old, um, aren't able to witness their parents, evangelize people to see what it's like.

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And so it's totally foreign to, to us when, uh, when we say, Hey, come on out and evangelize with us.

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They have no idea what to say. They have no idea where to start. And it's because they've not been trained since there was a child.

25:32

Um, so I, and that's kind of the thing, you know, imagine if we were to train up our children and once a month, just once a month in regular evangelism to go out knocking on doors from the time they're five years old, by the time they're 19, it's going to be a regular way of their life.

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It's not going to be foreign at all. And there'll be more comfortable doing there. There's not going to be the excuses of being an introvert or, uh, not gifting or not prepared and not knowing what to say.

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So that's what I want to try and do. We, we want to encourage people to disciple their children, um, and the church leaders to create events that the entire church is involved with.

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Imagine the witness that would happen that if 50 people went outside on the corner once a month, um, and just ensured the gospel,

26:21

I think cross would be magnified and it could transform lives. Yeah.

26:26

So I, I was kind of thinking about that when, when you were saying that even a few days ago when we were talking offline and I just went,

26:34

I don't think I've ever attended a church or even really know of a church that really includes children in evangelism in that way.

26:45

Uh, very few churches that even do open air preaching and street evangelism. But on top of that, to have children included.

26:51

And I wonder why we, why is that just kind of ignored? And it's crazy because I go to a church that really doesn't focus on that and not look at,

26:59

I'm not complaining about my church. I absolutely love it. I think we get a lot of things right in a lot of areas, but we're a confessional reformed

27:08

Presbyterian evangelical church. Uh, you know, a lot of homeschoolers, a lot of, you know, got all this stuff going on and we're very, um, family oriented.

27:20

Uh, I, I said when I started attending that church a few years ago, I walked in, I have three kids.

27:26

I was like, Oh, I'm not even reformed. I mean, the average family has seven kids in it. You know what I mean? It was like, go forth and multiply.

27:33

We take that mandate. We study the Westminster. We love the word of God, all these things.

27:38

But yet we don't, we don't do anything with children and evangelism in that way.

27:44

And I just go, I wonder why that is. I wonder why we've just kind of let that fall to the wayside and we go, well, that, that one's not that important for the majority of churches.

27:53

I think it is. Right. Absolutely. I think like I, like I said, it's been decades of, of parents not teaching.

28:01

So unless we can create a generation of people that are of Christians that grow up in Christian households and raising them up where evangelism is a part of life, it's, it's a, it's a part, a way of their life as they go on and living this life, you know, touching and everybody that we visit in the community, you know, mom's getting their hairdress, you know, getting their hair done by a hairdresser.

28:24

They should be sharing the gospel, but, but the training would be through street evangelism through knocking on doors.

28:32

You know, what's amazing to me. So not long ago we started door to door evangelism in Bernie, Texas, kind of uppity place.

28:41

But everybody has those doorbells now where, where, you know, you get a notification on your phone before you even go to the door.

28:49

And so nobody answers the door. And so my friend, Bobby Trejo, he's a deacon at the church and he had set up this, this whole neighborhood map up and we'd go knocking on doors and we hit 450 doors and hit, we actually talked to 12 people.

29:05

And so, yeah, it was, it was pretty incredible. What the interesting thing was is that I posted that on Facebook that, you know, evangelism door to door isn't like what it used to be because of this, this ring doorbell that they have now.

29:19

And Jeffrey Rice actually replied and he goes, he said, no man, he goes door to door is fantastic here, you know?

29:25

So it's amazing when you think about culturally how, how different evangelism, what it looks like in your neighborhood, in your city compared to someone else's city.

29:34

And then Michael Schultz is talking about it. You know, he, I think he lives in Kentucky and he goes to knock on the door and they just yell out,

29:42

Hey, come on in. You know, they don't know who's at the door, but because of where he lives, you know, they're inviting him in.

29:47

Hey, we're getting ready to have dinner, honey. Michael's here. You know, what do you have to say pastor? You know?

29:53

And it's just not like that here. I would definitely think that open air preaching and door to door and stuff like that is, is definitely, there's a strategic thing of geographically where, where you're at, how your community is organized.

30:05

You might be in a city that has a very communal town square and that's the best place you might be in a city that's a little more segregated with subdivisions and door knocking is the way to go.

30:15

So yeah, I'd have to imagine that it's more strategic like that. And then to touch on something you said earlier, just the practical worldly value of getting your children out in front of people and talking to them.

30:28

We have a lot of families at our church, which, um, the younger kids have to go talk starting at three years old, have to go talk to two adults every

30:38

Sunday and carry on a conversation with them, pick two new adults. Right. And that's a way to socialize and get them talking to right.

30:45

But I think back to my dad owned a computer wholesaling business when I was growing up.

30:50

And I remember I was like 12 years old or 10 years old. And he gave me a box of sound boards.

30:57

And for all you young Gen Zers out there, you don't even know what a soundboard is, but it was a peripheral that you could buy separately.

31:03

And then you built your own computer and you put it in there. He said, and we're at a trade show.

31:08

He says, don't come back until they're all sold. So I'm going around from vendor to vendor trying to work out a sales pitch, right.

31:15

By the time I was 14 or 15, not only was I, well, actually by 16, I'm driving to those, you know, taking a cargo truck with me and setting up and selling on my own, but I had no problem talking, not only talking to another adult, but making deals, tens of thousands of dollars in deals.

31:32

And right. And maybe it lends myself to do a podcast and be a politician and talk in front of people and I'm in real estate talking, but it was something

31:40

I look back on and I go, boy, did I hate it for about a year. But I look back and I go, it developed my social skill, my able to, you know, my confidence to talk in front of people.

31:49

Now look at, I'm not saying that's why you go and evangelize, but I'm saying if you're a parent right now, listening, there's all kinds of added benefits to getting your children out.

31:58

And not only that, but you're building little apologists. They're, they're able to defend their faith. How many guys do you know,

32:04

Tom, that are, you know, that, that grow up in the church, they get into their late teens, early twenties, go off to college, get to a friend group, and they can't defend a single thing about what they were taught for 18 years sitting in that pew or that chair.

32:19

Yeah. I'll tell you, you know, when, when it, when it comes to our church and our, our church is pretty well versed.

32:25

I mean, I would say comparatively speaking to other churches around us, very mature believers, solid in doctrine, you know, but when it comes to evangelism, and people come out.

32:35

So there's one of the days that I was, the events that we were talking about was the Christmas event and where the lights were coming out.

32:40

We had 13 people from our church. We have about 113 members at our church, roughly. And we had 13 members come out and it's like, okay, now what do we do?

32:50

It was like complete froze. You know, what do we do now? And they, they didn't know how to answer.

32:55

They didn't know how to get the conversation started. And like you said, with the children, kids these days,

33:01

I mean, they have a hard time even looking at each other in the face. You know, how many times do you communicate with a kid and they're looking down, you know, they don't, they don't know how to communicate at all.

33:10

So it's, it's all about training. You know, if, if, if children would be able to listen to their mom and dad, defend their faith once, once a month, from the time they're five, time they're, they're 20, they're going to get it.

33:22

They're going to have these answers. They're going to see what it's like to face a Mormon. They're going to see what it's like to face a

33:28

Jehovah's witness and so on. It's all about training and, and getting it, you know, making evangelism part of your life and, and we don't do it.

33:37

Yeah. Well, you know, another thing I'd say too, is for me, one of the biggest things that held me back was not getting questions answered to my whys or what about this, or why does the

33:50

Bible say that? And then in my early twenties, looking back and going, Oh, that I had leaders and pastors and other church members that were, that really weren't digging into the word and just kind of following their traditions.

34:04

And I'm not saying anything bad about those. I had some guys in my life early on that I'm, that were pivotal, pivotal to me and still are to this day.

34:12

My point being is if you're out evangelizing, you have to get answers to those questions because they are going to come up.

34:20

Right. I mean, if you watch any like a clip of you or a clip of Brian or any of these guys, or, you know, comfort or all these guys that yeah.

34:29

Who's the guy from Wretched Radio. He does that stuff sometimes. Frey or Todd Freel.

34:34

Thank you Frey, Freel. You watch that. If you just watch any of those clips for any amount of time, you get the, the craziest, hardest, philosophical, what if this, what if that, why does

34:46

God do that? Questions of evil, robot, determinism, creation, like the list goes on and on.

34:52

You have to very quickly. And I think maybe that's why some people get intimidated by it. I think it's good to go out with people who are experienced in open air preaching.

34:59

If it's your first time, have someone there partner up, but you have to very quickly go, Oh, I need to know the answers to these.

35:06

And what does the Bible say about that? What do our church fathers say about that? What do the confessions say about that? What did they argue in the first, second and third century about?

35:14

You know what I mean? What did the councils go over in this? So it's, it's so good at getting you, like I said, you're building a little apologist and so good at getting you fine tuned at really knowing your faith and being strong in theology.

35:28

And you know, theology just means to know God. And those questions will get you to know God. So I'm kind of telling,

35:34

I'm kind of saying this out loud. I know you know all this, but to the listener too, if you've ever thought about doing, you know, street evangelism or open air preaching, there are so many spiritual benefits to it for the preacher, not just for the one that is hearing the gospel.

35:50

You know what I mean? I mean, yeah, we, we prepare when we go out. Yeah. So we, we prepare when we go out and I, and I will say this,

35:57

I mean, even if sometimes you're not going to have the answer, sometimes they're going to stump you and, and it makes you, it causes you to go back and say,

36:04

I'm going to make sure that if this ever is asked again, I'm going to have this answer. And so you go home and you study.

36:10

Okay. Got it. You know, you have all these verses ready to meet them. And then you're waiting for that question.

36:15

Then it didn't come. And then something else comes and you don't know the answer to that one. And so you have to go back to there.

36:20

And so it's, it's total on the job training. God is going to grow you. And it's, he's going to cause you.

36:27

So it causes a person to dig deeper into the scriptures. You know, what do, what does a person need to know?

36:33

Well, we need to know who God is, how, how magnificent, how magnificent he is, how, how a lot of people think that God is just going to dismiss our sin, that they've created a

36:43

God in their own understanding, but they don't understand that he's a just God and he must punish sin. So there's little things like this.

36:49

A lot of times opposite. Well, what if I said, I don't believe in the Bible. I really don't get in that argument with people. I don't, if they try to control the conversation,

36:58

I'm going to bring them right back to, okay, let's, let's, we'll answer that in a second. You know, what do you know?

37:05

What are you depending on for eternal life? And we'll, we'll focus on the gospel and give them God's word, concentrating on that.

37:11

We've fallen short of the glory of God and need a substitute. And so we try to take control of that, that conversation as much as possible.

37:19

And, and give them the gospel and talk to them and love them. I mean, it's, I mean, if, if they don't turn, if God does not intervene with this message, you know, and, and so there's a passion about that too, to, you know, knowing that if they don't change, then, then, then their ticket is straight to hell.

37:37

So, yeah. You know, it's funny too, because, you know, early in my, in my walk too, when

37:43

I was in that cage stage and I was in it for a while where you just want to blast off full speed.

37:50

Well, part of it's, you know, it's excitement too. I hate when people use it derogatorily because I was just so excited to learn about the doctrines of grace and what

37:58

God has done for me. And I'm so grateful. Why doesn't everyone know this? And if you could see God through this theology, you understand his sovereignty and his wrath and his justice and his righteousness and all my goodness and the rich church history.

38:10

Right. And I would just go off and it's like a fire hose and people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then as you get a little older and wiser and you slow down a little bit and you think about it,

38:19

I found it's in, maybe you can speak to this when you're on the street. I found when someone wants to make a statement about something or it should be this way, or why do you believe this?

38:29

I almost always turn it around and just ask them the question. Well, what do you believe about that?

38:35

Right. And then they'll give you the statement. And then I say, well, do you think it would make more sense if it's this way or logically does it make, right.

38:42

And you start almost poking holes in their worldview without necessarily having to get very technical on your worldview because you do have the correct worldview, logic and science is behind you if you have the biblical worldview.

38:55

So we don't have to be physicists and astronomers and writing in philosophical geniuses.

39:00

I go, well, what, what is it that you believe? Cause I want to know where you're coming from. So I can answer you and boy, will they give themselves up really quick with some nonsense, some, some real crazy stuff.

39:11

And you go, okay, what about, and allowing them to explain and then just ask questions. I found those questions can really sink their boat really quick.

39:19

Absolutely. So one, one guy asked me one time, he said, you know, he goes, I don't believe in the Bible. And I said, well, have you ever read the

39:24

Bible? He goes, oh yeah. You know, many times I've read the Bible cover to cover, you know, bragging on how much time, how many times he's read the

39:30

Bible. And I said, well, let me ask you, I said, what did you understand the Bible to say about how a person receives eternal life?

39:38

And he's already told you, I don't believe in the Bible. I said, well, I don't, I don't believe in the theory of evolution, but I understand what it says.

39:45

What did you understand the Bible to say? And, and of course, boom, works answer, you know, he does have a worldview.

39:54

So you do. So you do have it in the Bible says, you know, the Bible says everyone believes that you're just suppressing the truth.

40:01

And, and, you know, we don't know what people are going through in their lives. A lot of people are angry.

40:07

They're, they've been to a church that hurt them. Um, they, you know, they're just angry at the world, just whatever. They don't have a piece and everything.

40:14

So it's spending time with them and really trying to, to just, just let God's word break that heart of stone and, and have compassion on them.

40:23

And, and, and God does all of that, you know, and the ones who and if they're blaspheming, uh,

40:29

God and stuff like that, you know, I'll just say, listen, man, God's not going to be mocked. Every knee will bow. Every time we'll confess that Jesus Christ is

40:36

Lord. And whether you do that now, you will do it again. You know, you will do it later. And I leave them there.

40:42

Yeah. And so do it now. Yeah. So, so tell me a little bit more as we wrap this up.

40:47

Tell me a little more about, even if none, uh, I know you said some of the guests coming on, but what do you guys get? What are you guys going to be talking about?

40:53

Is it going to be mostly about, uh, like open air preaching street evangelism? Are you going to get into like theological subjects or what are you talking about?

41:01

And, and when, when are we going to see the first episode? Do you think, when is it being released? Hoping, hoping to have the first episode next week, uh, with Claude Ramsey and, and we're trying to get

41:12

Ryan Ditton on. I've talked to Ryan and I wanted to talk to him about the book and stuff. And it's just about encouraging, uh, believers to get out there.

41:19

This it's time for the church to get off, uh, off the pews, you know, and out into the streets.

41:24

And so we want to be encouraging. Number one saying this is, this is God's mandate. You know, it wasn't just a suggestion.

41:31

It was a directive to go there for and make disciples of all nations, you know, uh, baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and the

41:37

Holy spirit, you know, and then not only that, to be a follower of Christ, to be a follower of Christ, Jesus says, follow me and I will make you fishers of men.

41:46

So the encouragement is going in. We're going to try and spur on believers get out.

41:51

And we're going to try and there's, there's other, there's other, uh, podcasts like wine that's coming up that are going to churches.

41:57

Let us help you and show you what evangelism looks like. Let us show you what, what open air, open air preaching looks like with a whiteboard and touch on that with the children there.

42:08

We had a, we have a couple of girls, um, that go out. There was, I mean, young girls, 14 years old, and we'll have

42:14

Amanda, the whiteboard and somebody will walk up and they'll bark, you know, they'll Mark. Yes. I'm going to heaven.

42:19

Why did you Mark? Yes. You know, and this young girl, Chloe, and I mean, just 14 years old, sitting here telling a person, you cannot earn your way into heaven.

42:29

God is too magnificent. The mountain is too high. The, the ladder is too much. There there's, there's the infinite gap and you ought to just see her go, um, and share.

42:38

So kids can do it. Now there's definitely places we wouldn't take the kids. There's definitely places we wouldn't take even, even our wives, uh,

42:46

June coming up pride month. Um, we're not, we're the men are going to go out.

42:52

Um, we're not going to bring our children out to that. Um, but, but it can be done. It can be taught and it needs to be done.

42:59

It needs to be, um, we need to make it in the front forefront to be a follower of Christ, to, to encourage.

43:05

So that's what it's about. It's, it's about encouraging the church. Um, you have some trained evangelists that, that have gone out, share

43:13

Christ, you know, what it's like, let's go out and be the church. What God has told us to do, which is to proclaim him.

43:21

Yeah. So, all right. So, all right. So as we button this up here, if someone's listening right now, uh, let's say they're even a pastor or they're interested in open air, uh, preaching street evangelism, what, what would be the first steps for them to get involved?

43:38

Obviously they're going to tune into even if none, uh, podcast, because they're going to want to listen to that.

43:44

But what are some first steps? Um, do they, you know, do you just go run out on the street and just start quoting scripture?

43:52

Do you have to get organized? Like I'm kind of thinking through, like if someone's listening right now, they're going, yeah, we got to do this.

43:57

Tom's got me fired up. This is part of the great commission. Let's go. But I don't know what to do. Right.

44:03

So there's, there's equipping that needs to be done. We need to be paired with some evangelists that have gone out. Um, these, these men, these bold men that are going out right now and train them, teach them how to engage the public, you know, teach them what it's like, um, to, to, to, to go out, have one guy who's qualified, usually an elder in the church.

44:22

If you could preach indoors, you should be able to preach outdoors. You know, now it's different, uh, because you have a moving congregation, you know, people aren't eyes aren't on you.

44:32

Um, and if they are, they're kind of, you know, hiding them. Um, but because people aren't paying attention to you, you have to be able to adjust on the fly.

44:40

A lot of times we go out there with no notes, you know, we'll have the scriptures and we have a wave of 20 people walking by.

44:46

And I have, you know, uh, 10 minutes to be able to show them that, that God is holy.

44:52

They're a sinner. We need a substitute. The answer is Christ. The personal work of Christ on the cross.

44:58

He was raised from that victory over sin and sin and seated at the right hand of the father, uh, interceding for all those who come to him, repent and believe the gospel, quit touching, you know, trusting your own righteousness.

45:10

So it's quick. And sometimes it's a matter of looping the gospel, the tenants of the gospel, who

45:15

God is, the problem of sin. We are by nature sinners. We need a substitute and looping that type of thing over and over and over.

45:23

Now, if you have an audience, it's totally different. So you're kind of adjusting on the fly. Here's the thing though.

45:28

So for the equipping, um, get with some people who, who, who can go out and you can have all the equipping that you want and people will be gung ho about, yes, let's go do this.

45:40

And we'll go and we'll train people how to do this. But then nobody shows up. Nobody, no, but you have to have at least two people that are willing to, um, to commit.

45:51

And, and the re and even more than just one person, because one person can get tired. Um, you know, there's sometimes

45:58

I don't want to go out. Um, but if I know, if I know that I have a group of people that are going to go out, well,

46:04

I gotta go out because they're going to go out. And it's just, it's just accountability and going out.

46:10

We have to be faithful and going out. Um, so that's what we want to try to, uh, to incorporate some people that work.

46:17

Matter of fact, so this weekend we're going out to Corpus Christi. There's a church in Corpus Christi that they don't, they don't evangelize.

46:23

It's a small church. They've asked my wife and I come to come down and, and help. Then we had a deacon that was going to come with me, but he's unable to go.

46:31

He's going to the master's seminary. So this weekend we're going to go to Corpus Christi, show them what evangelism looks like.

46:37

And if you, if you're a Christian, you know, how God saved you, you know, share the gospel, love the people that's out there, show them of the peace that, that you have because of what

46:47

Christ has done for you, for you. Um, and, and, and go from there. You know, it's, it's learning.

46:52

It's going to be all about learning. It's on the job training every time we go out. Well, yeah, that's such good stuff.

46:58

And Tom, uh, thanks so much for spending some time, uh, on the podcast here tonight.

47:04

We're doing a late night episode. Um, and I look forward to hanging out with you, man. I had such a great time, uh, with you and all the guys in, uh,

47:12

Tullahoma and it's like, February seems too far away. I'm hoping we can cross paths before that, but you know, it's a little tough.

47:18

I'm up here in Michigan. You're down there in Texas. Um, but man, didn't, didn't we have a great time at that, uh, conference?

47:26

Absolute blast. The fellowship, the, the, the fun, the laughing, the laughing, the snoring.

47:32

Oh yeah. That was me. Sorry. I, I got about 10 people left the house. I woke up by myself in that room and I'm like, yeah, you got the wrong theology.

47:42

Did the rapture happen? Nope. They just all moved downstairs. We're working on that baby.

47:47

We're working on that. We're on, we're, we're running on the treadmill. We're going to lose a little weight. Yeah.

47:52

Hopefully by February, you know, so I'm doing carnivore right now. I did it for three weeks and, and I know actually a month now

47:59

I lost 14 pounds. Yeah. How is that? It's, it was, it's,

48:06

I want to, I want bread. Yeah. So there's something about a good piece of sourdough or some pasta or something.

48:15

You just, you don't have it for a couple of days and you're like, man, yeah, I need that. Yeah. But you do feel, I feel full all the time.

48:21

It's just that, you know, the craving, you know, you just want some pizza and you know, I can't have beer right now either.

48:27

So. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think, I think the, the best thing Jeff did was put all those speakers up in a house.

48:34

If we had all been in separate kind of hotels and stuff, I don't think it would have the same kind of a vibe.

48:40

I hope he does that again because that was pretty cool. Yeah. I, I think

48:46

I think there's maybe one or two that, that medicine, how my wife is coming. Uh, but, but she's going to a hotel and I'm staying in the house.

48:55

You keep the marriage healthy. Yeah. Hang out with the boys in the house and she can go do a little shopping and go back to the hotel.

49:02

That's right. Yeah. So it's going to be a blast. Yeah, no, it's good stuff. And you're, and you're speaking this year, which

49:08

I'm, uh, I'm excited. Yeah. Super excited about, do you know what, uh, you're going to be talking about?

49:14

Have you thought about it at all? I, yeah. So I kind of assigned title. So we have it all written down.

49:19

Uh, mine's going to be conquering through Christ. Oh, that's perfect for you. There you go. Yeah.

49:24

It'll be good. Yeah. All right, man. Well, Hey, throw out your socials and stuff for everyone. I'll make sure I link it up, but if people want to follow you or get ready to, you know, follow the podcast or wherever your ministry's at, throw it out there so we can make sure we didn't get in touch.

49:39

Yeah. So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll post everything, but it's going to be, even if there's a, even if none group, there's a, there's going to be a

49:45

YouTube channel. Um, matter of fact, I've set that up and none of that is up and running, but once it does, I'll post it on Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff.

49:53

So look for the, even if none, go ahead. Yeah. Even if not on, um, let's say it again.

50:00

Oh my gosh. I hate the lag. We'll have to clean that up and post. That was really awkward.

50:06

We were both talking the same thing. I was going to say, even when you get it up and all the links will backdate it and we'll make sure we update it.

50:13

So if people are listening or watching this, it'll always be below in the description. Go click on it. Check out Tom stuff.

50:18

That's what I was going to say. I appreciate you having me, man. Yeah, Tom. Thanks. All right guys. Thanks for listening to another episode of dead men walking podcast.

50:26

Thank you for, uh, like I said, at the top of the show, man, you guys sharing with a friend and allowing us to grow and glorify

50:31

God and all the things that we do as always, if you want to sponsor the show, if you're a business, um, and you want to reach tens of thousands of people each month that are loyal and they're believers and they're reformed and they're building and pulling in the same direction you are and you're a business owner, give me a call.

50:47

Um, all the contact info is below. You can get a hold on social dmwpodcast .com has all that as well.

50:52

Uh, we do do a little interview process. We want to make sure we're on the same page. You're good for us. We're good for you. All that good stuff.

50:58

But bottom line guys, you know, we finish it every week. Chief end of man is the glorify

51:03

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51:10

Dead men walking can be found on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at dead men walking podcast. And on Twitter at real dmw podcast, the dead men walking podcast is part of the fight lab piece network for exclusive show content.

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