February 15, 2019 Show with Pete Orta on “Confessions of a Renowned Christian Recording Artist Who Was Not a Christian” Part 1

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 15th day of February 2019.

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I want to thank all of the hundreds of you who sent in very warm and kind birthday greetings.

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I turned 57 yesterday for those of you who are unaware and I am truly grateful to God for all of you who truly made yesterday a more special day for me by sending me those greetings and I look forward to many more of you starting to send in your questions daily to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for our guests.

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I have so many people who listen to this show who never ever ever send in questions and I would love for you to begin doing that on a fairly regular basis and today is a good day to start, an excellent day to start because today we have a man on the show that I have been wanting to interview for nearly a decade.

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I, as many of you know, started Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in 2005 and after the unexpected and very sad passing of my wife

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Julie after nearly 20 years of marriage who went into eternal glory in 2011,

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I went on hiatus for four years and not long before relaunching the show

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I contacted, I don't even remember how it happened, I don't even remember how I got his phone number, but I contacted

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Pete Orta, the lead guitarist from 1996 to 2000 for the renowned

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Christian rock group and whole Gospel Hall of Fame inductees Petra and we had this long conversation that is going to be the the key subject of our discussion today and I knew that once I relaunched

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I wanted to get Pete on the program and I relaunched in 2015 and for some reason the interview did not take place until today and I'm so thrilled to have today

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Pete Orta. Not only was he the former lead guitarist for Petra but he is winner of a gold record, a

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Dove Award nominee for three Grammys and a Grammy winner for Gospel Rock Album of the

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Year for the award -winning album Double Take. He was a contributor of production techniques to the soundtrack for the film

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Left Behind World at War and subsequent to a genuine rebirth in Christ, Jesus is now pastoring

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Cottonwood Creek Church in Denison, Texas. Today we are going to be addressing confessions of a renowned

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Christian recording artist who was not a Christian and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pete Orta.

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Hey Chris how are you man I'm glad to be here. Oh I am thrilled that you're here Pete and you know something.

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I can't believe you found out that much about me. I forgot all that stuff.

04:35

Yeah well there's a lot more I could have mentioned but then the show would be over and we wouldn't even have time to speak with you.

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So you're talking about my other bandmates. Well before we even start

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I'm going to give our audience just a bit of a taste of one of your albums.

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This was your first solo album after you left the group

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Petra and you recorded an album Born Again and I am going to play part of this song that has the same title

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Born Again. So this will give our listeners who are not aware of Petra or of your music career that might give them a little idea of your talents.

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So don't go away we'll be right back we're going to play a little bit of the song Born Again by Pete Orta.

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Well that was Born Again by Pete Orta and as Pete will begin to describe momentarily when he recorded that solo album as a

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Christian recording artist he is utterly convinced that he was not born again as the title would suggest.

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But Pete first of all give us something about your upbringing and I'm going to immediately give our listeners now the email address where they can send in questions to join us on the air so that they can have their own curiosity satisfied about many issues regarding your life and career and your faith.

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The email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and we look forward to hearing from you with your own questions chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Pete if you could give us something about a summary about your upbringing what kind of religious atmosphere if any you were raised in and how you became a musician so talented that a group as world -renowned and as popular as Petra would invite you to be their lead guitarist.

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Tell us about how this all came into place. Oh man well as I'm listening to uh those lyrics once again uh by the way

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I didn't write the song some friends of mine did you know the first line of it is

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I was a dirty messed up little crazy kid running uh away you know into like a bottomless pit

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I think and everybody wanted to be the one to save me which is not true as far as um everybody wanted to be the one uh to save me but um as far as being messed up then

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I grew up in a kind of uh a different a different upbringing and you know um

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I grew up in um a pretty rough environment my home environment my my pops and uh worked worked quite a bit and my mother and I we uh we've got quite a history and and I think that's probably her story to tell but uh it was pretty extreme and um and we have made amends and my mom is a um a believer and we have a an incredible relationship but um the uh the abuse and the stress was uh so severe uh at some point in our relationship that I actually lost my gallbladder because of it just the amount of stress um and it

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I had from uh since I was um 11 I will spare everybody the details but those were details that she shared with my wife so she would kind of know exactly you know where I was coming from in the kind of a lot kind of my maybe my little quirks or things that we were going to have to work through as we got um deeper into our relationship so uh my wife started off um you know single mom and I started off in um man

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I wish I could elaborate but I ended up running away from home and trying to go out on my own um for uh when

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I was when I the moment I turned 17 18 man I was I was out but I had a my

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I had a relative buy me a guitar when I was four years old and I wasn't allowed anything in my room but a dresser and a bed and a clock that was it um this was something that was never stripped from me because it was a gift and it was in the closet and I actually taught myself how to play and it wasn't my parents didn't even know the extent of it until I was actually playing in an auditorium of 3 ,000 people and they showed up and they were like holy smokes this is what he's done so in his room all these years in private um and uh they you know they knew

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I played and kind of here banging around in there and stuff like that I just didn't believe they did I they don't they didn't realize the extent of it

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I never made a big deal about it I didn't want it stripped from me so it was kind of a private thing that I just kept on the

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DL um I left I left the house and I I tried to really make it on my own it was way too soon but um uh it it just it had to happen um

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I just I couldn't take anymore and it was a it was um a physical exit uh almost and as I um you know worked myself out the door and into a uh

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I started rooming with my drummer who was a guy who was on acid uh and I think he was uh

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I think he we were anyway there was it was a weird arrangement on his place and who he was written from but um there was a um

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I was playing guitar and uh at the time as well

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I kept playing and it was kind of like just my little safe haven you know it's very therapeutic for me and um and and there was a point where six months into rooming with him

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I got a call from an attorney that said hey uh I think you bought a guitar used and that guitar is stolen it's mine

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I was freaking out over it and I was like oh my goodness um well

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I didn't steal it I traded it in for some speakers and they were these one guys and this and this and that and I said hey man

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I'll I'll send it back to you so I did and uh I mailed it back to him he was kind enough to so I think he shot me a check for 500 bucks it was a

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Steinberger guitar at the time um and so I was in uh

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I was in a tough situation I had never been without a guitar like almost my entire life and 500 bucks of course

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I was already at the level of a player that a 500 dollar guitar was not going to do I really needed a professional piece of gear so uh

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I went to a music store I filled out a credit app I talked with uh the owners of a music store and I said hey listen um

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I'd like to replace this guitar and I found one um for like 2500 bucks and I put it on they let me take it with me and I made payments before I signed the paperwork

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I knew I was gonna have to give up rent and have this guitar and go homeless or I was just gonna have to wait on the guitar and keep where I was renting and so I decided to live in my car and uh and take the guitar and I was probably homeless for about a year and a half maybe two years and I kept all my private possessions in the trunk with my clothes and I slept in the back seat and that's kind of how

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I uh kind of my upbringing if I could just give a quick snapshot of it uh but as far as how

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I developed man I was very introverted um I was um very protective of myself and my thoughts and and uh there wasn't a lot of of trust there

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I had an extreme amount of discipline and I had um a deep awareness of um who

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I was and how much growth I needed and I also there was a lot of the world that I never got to experience because of the amount of hours days months and years that I had to spend in my room so um

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I was um you know I was very deprived to say the least. So how did this uh this uh purchase of a guitar that was stolen that you had to return eventually lead to you becoming so talented that you got the ear of Petra?

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Man I'm going to tell you what I didn't know it at the time and it was probably a good thing uh it it um prolonged my humility probably longer than it should have but I was probably at a pro level by the time

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I was 16 years old I mean I there was as far as technical technicality um there was no difference between me being a 16 year old and then me at the top of my career as far as what

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I could do on a guitar. Matter of fact I had to learn how to slow down and choose my notes wisely and learn how to phrase and be seasoned and that kind of thing but as far as you know so I was gaining a lot of attention uh just even locally in Lubbock, Texas I lived in Lubbock, Texas at the time which there are some still some amazing musicians that have come out of there and that are still there um but I was it started people were were freaking out on my talent as a kid um especially when

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I was 15, 16 and as I grew older um and and I worked with a guy at a music store the same one that allowed me to make these payments

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I ended up getting a job I was a I was tech um you know a sales guy there and I that's when I learned how to communicate and really came out of my shell and and then

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I got to use you know the technical side of me to to sell the instruments and then point out different points of you know this and that and the advantages and disadvantages and um and and there was a guy that worked in the keyboard department and we got to become really good friends and he went out to Nashville, Tennessee on vacation one year and he comes back and he was talking with me and uh he said man he goes dude

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I think I'm I think God's calling me to Nashville and you gotta understand I I I I went to some some churches when

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I was young um you know I had kind of an an American belief that there was a

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God um you know it wasn't really popular to be um you hear a lot about atheism or agnostics or deists or anything like that um when

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I was growing up as a kid born 1971 people believed in a God some sort of God and they you know they followed

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God they were supposedly religious or not religious but you know I was raised in in you know with an awareness of who

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God was and the somewhat story of Christ um and so when he talked like this

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I'm in the bible belt he goes man I don't know what I should do and I said man he goes what what should

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I do if I feel this like God's calling me over there and I said you need an explicit word get the explicit out of here and uh he he just kind of laughed um at that and he he moved he wasn't

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I think he would admit now his name's Russ Lloyd I think he would admit now he wasn't really that great of a keyboard player but he loved it he didn't end up making it but he had this amazing just um magical personality and everybody loves him uh to this day and he ended up working for a booking agency which was

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Greg Oliver booking agency I think they're still going today and he started getting in the mix and he was calling me up at the music store and uh they would be like uh

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Pete guitar line one you know so I'd answer hey this is this is Pete guitars how can

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I help you hey Pete this is Russell and yeah what's up and he's like man you got to come over here you got to get over you've got to move here there's opportunity

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I'm like dude I'm what are you talking about and he kept bothering me and after a while I would just hang up on him you know

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I would call you hey Pete this is Russ click I'm at work you know and I didn't really know what he was

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I didn't know what he was talking about you know you got to understand that we had MTV growing up um you know

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I saw probably the very first episode on but but there wasn't this stardom this thing like you see on Instagram Facebook that kind of stuff where everybody's trying to be famous and taking pictures and selfies and we did that wasn't our culture so this didn't make sense it wasn't like oh

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I got to jump on this opportunity it didn't click so he ended up calling my wife by the way that's how you get me to do anything and he she he explained to her that I was

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I was uh just gonna rot away you know I mean my talent was gonna go to to just waste that's what he felt um and and so um and not derogatory to anybody of my buddies that are still in love like really hammering away at it but that's what he felt that's the language he was using and so my wife was the one that was she got on the mission and so what had happened was there was this audition that was coming up that my friend found out about he goes man we've got this guy he just came up with a with a solo record and he's looking for a band you can do it man like you can go in and do this tour and play for a living that did interest me

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I mean to play for a living my big goal was to make 30 grand a year working the

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Texas circuit because Texas guitar players that's that's uh there's a lot of pride in that and you can work full -time actually make a whole lot more but that was kind of goal number one so you know it was for the

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Christian industry and I thought well you know we're talking about there's not gonna be a lot you know I'm not gonna be any drugs cocaine that kind of stuff going on and I bet you know

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Christian people are pretty cool people and there's not a lot of drama there and a lot most of my friends are are so -called

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Christians and I consider myself a Christian you know I mean I believe in God and so I said okay listen

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I told my wife I will do this audition whatever it may be but it's going to be on our vacation we're going to make a vacation about it that way it's just not all about this thing

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I think I had a fear of failure um and I said but the main reason is that I'm going to Graceland we're going to drive to Memphis I'm going to go to Memphis and I'm going to Graceland because I'm a huge Elvis fan uh

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Scotty Moore you know Bill Black and and and you know DJ Fontana and uh so I I uh

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I made that deal and I went I ended up doing this audition man

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I'm talking about like it was I was just raw I had no idea what CCM was nothing

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I went in raw dragging my left Paul on the concrete I was moving my bags in people were just like who who is this guy

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John Schlitt tells me he goes man when I saw you dragging your left Paul on the concrete he goes this guy is going to be it or not there's no going to be no in between and I learned the parts

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I ended up um I ended up learning the parts and so um uh he said hey man so you know what what part do you want to do

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I said I can do both at the same time I said I can just take the main parts of each guitar part you know there's two or three guitar parts and I can actually make it work but I don't know you can save money by not having another guitar player

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I was really honest about it and he just laughed and so I picked out you know he gave me the he gave me a good some good parts and I ended up playing and just uh killing it killing it now you got to understand

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I have no idea how good I am especially being in a small town you know you you wait to get in with the bigger fish and you really find out dude

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I was um I was there I was already there so um

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I went to they said they would get back with us and I went to Elvis's place and I'm freaking out over all that stuff and just made it a great vacation and before we left the day before we left

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I got a call over and um got offered the gig wow so it was with this guy named

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John Schlitt and it was for his unfit for swine tour and the perfect perfect album for me to come in on and uh and so it was it was cool man and and so I had to make a decision so I went back to my music store uh

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I told my bosses I said remember when you hired me and I said this is only going to be temporary because I was going to go professional at some point well

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I'm doing it now and uh they didn't believe me of course they just smirked and thought it was cute but it it happened and I said

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I'm gonna I'm being I'm moving at this point so my wife and I put our house up for sale or rent or something like then we flipped it to somebody else and we loaded up a jeep golden jeep

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Cherokee and we drove to Nashville and we stayed with my buddy that worked at Greg Oliver for about 30 days until we found a place we bought a house we went all in crazy kids and um she got a job somewhere and I ended up uh you know getting a uh working this tour and of course the tour started falling apart

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I'm not experienced in any of this but we did a few dates but it just didn't take off um because I think the fan base was still a

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Petra fan base I didn't know the band I had no idea I just knew this guy named

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John was was needing this band and so we did I think we toured around in this milk truck with the

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AC taken out it was really weird you had to use the bathroom opening the door they were going up behind us they were electrical wires hanging from the the roof it was just bizarre thanks

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Todd White from uh Mike Kyle management at the time but they just did everything to to make it go it ended up falling apart and John felt awful that I had pretty much cut bait run and set up camp there

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I ended up getting a job at attorney's shoe store in uh

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Cool Springs mall and just trying to figure out how am I gonna pay for you know make a living here and we just bought a house and so John came up to me and he said hey buddy um he always called me buddy um or character uh hey buddy um you

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I've got I have another band all right okay he goes but um we need a guitar tech have you ever guitar teched

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I'm like what's guitar tech he goes well you're going to do this and do that and do this and do that I said dude

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I worked at a guitar shop like since I was a kid sure I know how to do all that I can repair this repair that rewire this rewire that and intonate this and do that and yeah no problem so I went out at this time

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I've got to explain um it was for the band Petra Bob Hartman had already retired at the time and there was an interim pastor

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I mean pastor interim musician uh guitar player at the time and I walk

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I'll call him that uh and and to his defense I will say this I'm not mentioning names but everybody can guess

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I'm sure um we were all young and we were all punk so this was a long time ago but anyway

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I was um I was on the tour bus my first time ever on a tour bus and I was

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I'm claustrophobic completely Hezekiah tunnels I went through in Israel freaked out but so I was not accustomed to riding the bunk so I kind of fell asleep in the front lounge of the tour bus well the guitar player at the time was giving me a hard time not

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Bob Hartman giving me a hard time and physically starting to bully me and really kind of making a mockery out of me and banging up against me while I was asleep against this partition people were laughing

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I woke up and I already had enough of the dude I stood up took off my baseball hat slapped him with it and said touch me again

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I'm gonna break your jaw true story I guess otherwise

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I wouldn't even go here I was so irritated I went back to my bunk closed the curtain and I thought

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I just lost my job so this is going to be a great one to explain so we had one more show before we went back home to Nashville and I ended up setting up Guitar World and restringing everything and I usually would just get the guitars and just go check check chunk chunk chunk all right we're on hang them all up well

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I had checked the guitar and it's on the distortions on it and I see him walking up and I'm like you know what uh -uh

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I ripped a five -minute guitar solo that would be hard for anybody to live up to I mean

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I let I let 20 something years just unleash and I was looking at him part of the time and I just killed it and I handed him the guitar and Jeff Gallop our sound guy said over the

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PA he said he covered his mouth I remember looking over there he covered his mouth over the mic talked back and goes did anybody just see the guitar tech outplay the guitar player

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I ended up going back I have no idea of even

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Petra John Bob they probably don't even know this part of it but I ended up going back home and we were off for a couple of weeks and I got a call back in and I thought uh here it is let me get reprimanded for it just take it like a man so I showed up and um

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I didn't get reprimanded matter of fact

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I think some people saw my point of view and there were some issues that were being handled privately and they were handled well and before the end of the meeting

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John looked at me and said I'm offering you the position of the new guitar player of Petra wow well we're going to pick up right where we left off there when we return from our first break and once again if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

29:56

c h r i s a r n z e n at gmail .com please give us at least your first name your city and state your country of residence if you live outside the

30:05

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away we will be right back with Pete Orta after these messages from our sponsors

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that's irvsseminary .org two s's in the middle i hope to hear from you soon

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God bless you Chris Arnsen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine my trusted source for news from a

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today also check out world news groups podcast the world and everything in it at wng .org

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forward slash podcast that's w for world n for news g for group dot org forward slash podcast welcome back this is chris arnson if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is pete orta former lead guitarist for the award -winning christian rock group petra and we are discussing confessions of a renowned christian recording artist who was not a christian if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

35:59

chris arnson at gmail .com by the way i don't know how clearly on your end my advertisements come through pete but i have a trivia question uh do you know who the guitarist was for that last ad for world magazine i don't have you ever heard of at least he's a legend in my mind ronnie montrose oh of course are you kidding that would be him yes that was ronnie montrose he didn't he didn't do this specifically for my show he was already uh long uh gone he actually i don't know if you're aware he passed away he committed suicide unfortunately uh but uh i i gamma at growing up as a teenager was one of my very favorite uh rock groups which is a short -lived rock group but not ronnie montrose wasn't short -lived but the group was but um the uh that was one of my favorite songs off of their first album but anyway that is a but uh we got to the point when you were invited to be the lead guitarist for petra and what year was this oh my goodness my wife remembers dates more than i do uh it was it was late 90s 1996 perhaps yeah somewhere around there yes okay now the one thing that i'm curious about petra is a christian band in fact the name uh i believe comes from uh jesus's declaration to peter that were peter the rock am i uh correct on that yes he said um so peter wouldn't get arrogant you're the petros you're the little pebble but i am the petra right right right and uh so did they ask you anything about your faith i mean they were blown away by your talent but did they ask you at all anything about what you believed about jesus christ his death on calvary his virgin birth his sinless life uh his bodily resurrection anything about your understanding of the word of god at all well yes yes and no um i definitely don't want to um come across and put petra in a light that they were irresponsible i don't think that was it i think there's a lot assumed if you were trying out for a christian band that you are a christian um i'm sure of it that i was asked if i was a christian and of course you know that understanding to a non -believer that has grown up in the bible belt is the question that you're asked is do you believe in god and i do a matter of fact i would have said yes to everything that the devil believes in right do you believe in god yes and in the south and in the south it's almost like asking somebody are you an american let's say are you a christian yeah i mean it's it's just kind of assumed and you know what and to petra's defense and the ccm industry's defense most of these people are coming from churches most of them are pastor's kids um the bass player lonnie chapin that i played with was a with a preacher's kid so you know most of these people had grown up in it and just kind of assume um so you know it's i don't i don't think there was anything developed and maybe still not now for those that are coming from a completely different world view into christianity um that that process probably at some point needs to be developed and uh but before we go on to another question i just want to make sure that you had fully developed that part of the story to your own satisfaction in regard to you were invited to play for petra did you want to add anything to that because i did yeah i mean as far as as far as bob um you know john lowry um you know john schlitt um you know louis weaver you know these these guys that uh were a part of especially petra during you know its peak its heyday um you know those those guys i'm speaking just for me individually where i was at those guys are believers those guys were sincere i think that i think that things could have been done and asked and recognized you know i think that i've done i did some things while i was in petra that nobody you know not to put people back on the hook nobody ever asked dude are you even saved i mean my some of my conduct was so outrageous and you know there's a beautiful thing that happens in nashville in the industry um that i wish that would happen in the church but there's also some repercussions uh from it as well we have this amazing thing this kind of camaraderie between artists and label mates that you know we are under the microscope everywhere we go when we come into town you know there's this kind of private circle um you know i remember my wife and i one time going shopping for food and we were down this aisle and nobody else was on the aisle except timber on faith hill and we were there just shopping and we're like hey how's it going and hey how's it going and you know there's this thing in in certain areas of the united states uh la you know hollywood or nashville or atlanta where you know you'll see these people and you just allow them to live their life and there's a beauty in it where you allow people to develop and you allow people to grow and there's not you know this type of gossip and trashing and you know going to the tabloids i mean the the christian church as far as when it comes to that aspect of it um man they do respect where people are at and and everybody there is not judgmental you know at the same time you know there's kind of not any church discipline that goes on as far as within the industry you know if you're doing something that's going to cost you sales you know it's going to cost you your contract but you know as far as as i was concerned you know i wish that somebody would have come along beside me and questioned me and somebody would have come alongside me and rebuked me uh biblically not just hey man you know you're acting like an idiot but uh did you know that this is like against god's character wow you know it's against his holiness i mean does this bother you do you have a conscience what do you do with your guilt orda nothing like that not not just not not to uh glamorize your sin because i know that unfortunately many uh christian outlets or platforms where people are giving their testimonies they actually love to titillate the imagination of people by giving a glamorized version of their hellish past but can you give us an idea of what you're talking about when you say that you were acting outlandishly i'll give man you don't have to if you don't want to i want to i want this just to represent me because i'm going to tell you this does not reflect the other guys matter of fact i'll give you one where i was a little bit reprimanded i got called in by the label uh one time and they had called uh hartman and they called schlitt in and then they were very concerned because somebody spotted me in europe somewhere i don't know if i was in norway or or um uh i was i was somewhere in europe and i was so drunk at uh when i was doing the money exchange i was exchanging my money or something like that and i was so drunk i pulled out this wad of whatever euro whatever and about three four hundred bucks and i was going to exchange it for u .s

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dollars i was coming back into the country and and i was i was just so wasted that i left it there i didn't do the exchange you know um and it just yeah just stuff like that um i acted even worse when i got off the road you know i did some things with other christian artists that just were like crazy and you know you're just you're young i was young um you know and what was i will say this that i appreciate it even now now that i'm looking back that you know petra provided so much grace for me and so much understanding that i actually didn't rebel against christianity and against the cross when it was presented to me you know when it was my time through god's sovereignty when it was my time you know i remember them being so gracious and forgiving and understanding that i was young and an idiot and people make mistakes and i think they brushed things off to that not brushing it off i don't want to make them sound irresponsible they they reprimand i mean i they called me in and i had to answer for those things and i was very apologetic and you know i understood to an extent that i you know i shouldn't be like that and definitely in public and you know i could make the band look bad and i could really ruin the reputation of the band and i you know there's all kinds of other repercussions that i could have caused them but i was just too foolish to even understand the depth of my uh my mistakes but just things like that you know the minor one by the way so if you hear you get people emailing you worse things uh i won't fight it i'll just say yeah probably well i know how important uh reprimands rebukes chastisements from brothers in christ can be because at one point after 18 years of sobriety after becoming a christian uh i had become uh a raving drunk again and uh if it were not for the love of fellow christians who pulled me aside and in love but with what but with urgency yeah rebuked me and then also i was put under church discipline uh and if that had not happened i don't think i'd even be sitting here with a beating heart and air in my lungs having this interview with you uh so people gotta really remember how important that is uh because people think it's more loving to overlook that but it's not um you know to not call that to the attention of a brother uh that is you're more concerned over hurting their feelings or even more concerned over having your friendship that you have with them that you value having that interrupted or something than you are over the person's not only physical life but their eternal soul yeah and you know when i look at all that and i look at my behavior which was destroying my marriage we were on the eve of divorce after a while um and you know things were falling apart in my life and as they were falling apart i developed a strong deistic belief uh that god is not involved because he's you know prayers don't work people are dying of cancer and and they're believers and they're praying in their church their family's praying their church is praying they're not being healed i hear of atheists going into remission it's like he i used to tell my wife he's not involved i mean he just made the earth he spun it on its axis and it's like good luck and it used to really disturb her because my wife has been a christian since a young age and so we were at odds there my behavior was about everything you could possibly imagine and you know what i had no guilt over it i really didn't i everything was justified in my mind and it's you know now that i know what i know and i pastor a church and right now we're working through romans we're on the chapter two um you know i was just just because i wasn't getting an immediate punishment or discipline or wrath from god you know doesn't mean that um that i was okay but you feel okay because you're not being reprimanded right away you're not you're not receiving the full consequence right away and i was just storing up wrath for myself and um man salvation you know the first thing that happens is simultaneously is you're aware of your sin and how holy god is and that had never happened to me now when you say you began to believe as a deist first of all let me define that for our audience who don't know what that is uh a deist uh basically believes that god is impersonal and the classic analogy of this would be that uh god created the world and wound it up like like an alarm clock and then just let it alone but is that an accurate description in your opinion or yeah that's perfect and did you know who helped me develop that who the church wow which church all of them combined as i toured the world and i got to talk to believers and i got to hear this discombobulated hodgepodge of theology i'm talking from south korea to africa all the way to every state in the u .s

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it's i just i'm a real logical guy i'm uh i'm a um you know very rational and i start finding all the contradictions in everybody's belief and i'm just thinking yeah i can i can understand there's a there's an intelligent designer but everything that you guys believe in you guys are contradicting each other all over the world wow now when you say also when you became a deist you weren't not a card carrying member of the deist theological society you didn't even really know what that was am i correct you just were you later found out that that reflected deism what you were believing yes i didn't hold on to it like i said it's not like what it is today you know i didn't know what that's just where that's where i landed right and uh i remember in our discussions before the interview that you had also unfortunately been deceived into something that is actually perhaps the polar opposite of deism the word of faith movement yeah how did that happen when and how that did that happen well my wife was born and raised in it and i had yeah i had some degree of it and i started i started believe i got introduced to it when i was a teenager and i i kind of started believing into that because man i did the uh accept jesus in your heart type of thing you know the charles penny uh type deal right and i said well you know hey jesus you know my life is horrible i grew up in a in a in a home like this and i'm homeless and um yeah i mean if you can change my life then do it so he changed my life i thought i went from homeless to winning awards to touring the world to living the american dream so when i would talk to people and say hey man you know you want my version of christianity it's amazing so man of course thousands of hands can go up so i had this kind of word of faith type of thing when that fell apart actually i really what dismantled that wasn't theology what dismantled that is i didn't have the result after a while to back that theory up no no was that before your deism the word of faith that was before yes and because of the the failing of the word of faith doctrines and and and uh then beliefs because they do not work you know uh at all uh you know i was like well there's you know i'm denying that because this has to be where god lands and you know that of course deism he's not involved all this is just hokey and weird and so it just kind of hardened my heart even more towards god um and that you know and the the so both theologies word you know word of faith you know blab it and grab it uh i lived that uh and and grabbed it and deism both came from bad theology from other believers so and and forgive me for having you repeat things that you may have already made clear that slipped by my mind somehow uh i'm getting older i just turned 57 yesterday and i'm my mind is really going fast but anyway uh when when you were accepted into or invited into the group petra to be their lead guitarist where was your mind at regarding christ and his gospel then were you just like a a nominal christian who thought yeah i'm a christian because i'm a pretty good guy i haven't murdered anybody yet that kind of a thing or or was there any deeper theological understanding that even if it was wrong uh any deeper theological no i just wanted to rock i'm sorry say that again i i just wanted to rock i had no i had no thoughts of god uh the only time i ever thought anything like that is i knew what industry i was in so i could take any any book of the bible and find a story and write a lyric on it i'm a lyricist i mean yeah i could do i could do with the quran right now malarious i just had no didn't even think about i had no relationship nothing with god wow so uh then you became the word of faith believer and your wife already had that belief that she was raised in and then you became the deist and we're going to be picking up right there uh when we return from our midway break now ladies and gentlemen if you're just listening for the first time uh the midway break is a longer than normal break because grace life radio 90 .1

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fm in lake city florida uses this longer period of time in the middle of our show to localize iron sharpens iron radio to lake city florida by airing their own public service announcements and commercial breaks so please be patient as we take this longer break uh by and also uh you use it uh to the best of your ability i use it use the time wisely by writing down the information provided by our advertisers this way you can more frequently and more successfully patronize our advertisers and keep in mind the more frequently you patronize our advertisers the more likely they are going to continue advertising on iron sharpens iron and that means we are going to like more likely remain on the air longer because of that because we rely on our advertisers financial backing in order to exist so please uh patronize the advertisers as much as you can and as heavily as you can so that they remain in existence and that they keep us in existence uh through their financial support uh but also write down questions for pete orta at chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris arnson at gmail .com and please as always give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and don't go away god willing we are going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors tired of bop store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news waiting river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

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that's nasbible .com chris sorenson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuoco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for one million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com

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that's chrisarnson at gmail .com hello my name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas the word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing do you have the desire to serve jesus christ in pastoral ministry 20 years ago the institute of reformed baptist studies at westminster seminary california was born for those two decades these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in reformed baptist churches it's been a wonderful partnership now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the master of divinity degree this is irbs theological seminary we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of god that jesus christ is god in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune god in all things irbs theological seminary is dedicated by god's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines do you sense a call to serve jesus christ in his church as a pastor why not consider irbs theological seminary you'll find more information at irbs seminary .org

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today and always make sure you tell them that you heard about them from chris arens and an iron sharpens iron radio before we return to pete orta just have a couple of announcements to make uh i am going to be attending god willing the east coast ministers conference being held by banner of truth in elizabeth town pennsylvania and uh i am so excited about this conference from may 28th through the 30th and the speakers include jeff kingswood terry johnson david vaughn who's a a reformed baptist missionary in france steve nichols uh who is the president of reformation bible college the college founded by the late r .c.

01:09:41

sproul and ligonier ministries michael morales and chad vegas and the theme is i believe in the holy spirit which is a very important theme to be heard by uh reformed christians reformed expositors so that we can get a truly sound biblical understanding of the person and work of the holy spirit and if you want to join me there at the banner of truth conference go to banner of truth .org

01:10:09

banner of truth .org click events and then click on east coast ministers conference they also have a west coast ministers conference for those of my listeners who live on the west coast you can click that if you live closer to that conference and prefer attending that one but i will be at god willing the east coast ministers conference may 28th through the 30th in elizabeth town pennsylvania that's banner of truth .org

01:10:34

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and put in the subject line i need help finding a church or something very similar i have lists of biblically sound churches all over the world i've already helped quite a number of people all over the world find churches near them uh that they have joined and become members of and in fact i was just successful at finding a church in honolulu hawaii a reformed baptist church when a listener was visiting his son who lives in hawaii asked me to help him find a good church and i found a central baptist church of honolulu for him and he was able to visit that church while vacationing there so but anyway just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:13:10

and put i need a church near me or something like that and i will help you find one if at all possible we are now back with our interview with pete orta former lead guitarist for the world -renowned christian rock band petra we are discussing confessions of a renowned christian recording artist who was not a christian uh thankfully praise be to god he is today and he's also a pastor of cottonwood creek church in denison texas and if you would like to join us on the air with a question our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:13:46

chrisarnson at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the usa by the way i want to make sure that i plug pete's website peteorta .com

01:13:59

pete o -r -t -a dot com and i hopefully will be remembering to repeat that later on that will give you a lot more information about pete than we have time to tell you today during our interview we do have a listener who has a question for pete and i just had it in front of me and where is it it disappeared well here it is we have kendra in north brantford connecticut and kendra asks was it hard for pete to keep playing for christians in concerts when he really didn't know jesus did he feel convicted or just numb to it all very good question i was wondering that myself i would even ask did you feel like a charlatan at all uh did you feel like you were putting on an act no because i wasn't that was the you were deceived you were deceived yourself yeah and i was very raw uh you know uh you what you saw is what you got and the way i remember looking at it is number one i became kind of hard -hearted towards christians because like i said i was hearing all kinds of different theologies all different kinds of beliefs and just thought they were just you know buffoons and when i would go play some of us are i believe in the evolution no but uh you know when i was playing i just thought these poor deprived kids that cannot hear van halen and led zeppelin and jimmy hendrix so i just thought you know what i'm going to give them what they've missed out on and you know i would throw my guitars smash them light them on fire uh jump off the stage and i would just give them a show and i just thought that i just remember thinking you know these these kids they never got to experience any of this stuff i'm going to bring it to them by the way i just want to let you know the one and only time i picked up a guitar and played it someone else smashed it and set it on fire i'm only kidding i i've never might have been me i've never played a guitar and but my brother andy as i've mentioned on this show in fact i've mentioned it to you he was the best guitar most gifted guitar player electric guitar player i've ever heard in my life and sadly is now in a nursing home paralyzed on his left side after a stroke at the age of 72 so pray for andy uh most of all pray that uh he is truly filled with the holy spirit and brought to biblical repentance and becomes a genuine christian but i'm sorry i well i will say i will kind of piggyback off of that so kind of to answer her question you know it's it's only those that you know if i was a believer that was backslidden i might have felt that guilt that guilt but it was it's pure blindness you know there's there's the scariest thing is to have no to not recognize the guilt that you carry yeah that that is so true and uh in fact i'm gonna bring that up in a minute in regard to lordship salvation uh something that you and i very strongly believe um well thank you kendra and keep listening in connecticut to iron trip and zion radio and keep spreading the word about the program in connecticut and beyond um oh in fact kendra since you are a first -time questioner in iron trip and zion's audience you have received a free new american standard bible so please mail us email us i should say your full mailing address there in connecticut and we will have it mailed to you by cvbbs .com

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compliments of our friends who publish the new american standard bible and also our friends at cvbbs .com

01:17:51

who mail out all of our winners their bibles and books and cds and dvds and other things they win at no expense to our listeners or to iron trip and zion radio thanks kendra um you uh came to the point in your discussion about uh becoming the deist after being disappointed by the word of faith heresy so obviously from the chronology of what i already know about you since you say that you were lost you were not born again even after you left petra and performing and recording as a solo artist and you had the album born again and how many other albums as a solo artist did you have man that was just that one oh okay but you have claimed to me uh that and i believe perhaps even already on the show that you were not born again when you recorded born again so when did that miracle of the heart happen um you know as there was a point that i'd really looking back i can see how uh god just started cutting off resources i mean i lived a lie from when i was on the street all the way up to playing in the groups and and going into just even being a producer and a writer um you know there was hardly everything i touched turned a goal it seems like i mean everything worked i had a great work ethic i was a self -made man um and then there was a a big huge season where the lord just in his just ordained that nothing would manifest of any type of success for a season and i was really rattled by it i ended up moving back to texas i ended up going to la for a little bit and then moving to texas and i was just trying to i was trying to change my atmosphere i was trying to change where i was at maybe it was just dried up here they better try somewhere else and and so i did and it just got worse my sin got worse more gross humiliating the lord did that he removed success so that my sin would be revealed and my guilt would be revealed because when you are on your way up the mountain you know nobody can tell you anything i even meet men like that today that are just at the height of their success and they've just got the worst theology matter of fact if some of it is so bad i just doubt they're even saved and you can't hardly tell them anything so there is you know the on your way down uh what goes up must come down um the lord used that opportunity for me to start questioning myself start questioning my ideas my beliefs and it came to a point where i could no longer intellectually fix anything in my life and i ended up just crying out to a pastor uh who has passed and his family who is still alive uh in san antonio texas and i ended up just just being gutted out there and i explained where i was at and i explained this and i started feeling guilt over my sin you know to answer her question is this is when the lord started you know he revealed some things in my you know just kind of the blinders came off and i was i started feeling this guilt over over things that i've never felt guilt over it was tormenting and life was just tormenting i just wanted to die and i remember feeling like i wanted to die i'm not suicidal but it's wild looking back i that was the proper feeling something needed to die i did need to die spiritual death and i remember um going to this pastor and uh him holding up my own bible because he told me to bring a bible uh and going the first thing you have to do is admit you know nothing about this book and i was so broken that i it was easy for me to do and i cried like tears and snot and everything on his bedroom floor man and i just broke before the lord i did i broke like a baby i mean no shame at all i had nothing left and just just i didn't know what else to do i i gave up i told the lord i didn't want to live anymore i told him i couldn't do this anymore and i and i didn't repent of really drugs or alcohol or i mean i you know i i've done all that kind of stuff but i repented for being a self -made man and it was at that point that i realized how self -made i was and and the lord allowed through sin the acknowledgement of my sin the awareness of my sin to see who i truly really was in god's eyes and i just called out for him to save me uh my wife was um seeing the the pastor's wife at that time and on her issues and mostly with our marriage we both went to the cross of christ and by default our marriage has never been any never been better i mean ever since that moment and we didn't even try to fix our marriage we just went to the cross and so uh they just really were big instruments in my life and i lived in austin at the time i didn't live in san antonio so it was quite a a jot but um you can't mention who the pastor uh was yes um his name was freddie garcia he wrote the outcry in the barrio there in san antonio um and as as as time as time went on um i i started digging in uh i started i was told to make my wife and my kids i only had two at the time um my first disciples and everything i learned uh i would repeat to them and i would teach them so and i was told you need to get off the stage you don't have any business doing music you have no business in the studio you have no business playing concerts playing shows and i had to just become a layman and i opened up a you know a small marketing firm and we did you know websites and design and packaging and all that kind of stuff and i was obedient to it and i just stayed i just kind of just fell off the map now uh but what was the initial reaction to that kind of truthful but harsh language uh was your reaction hey that sounds like a correct thing to do or were you highly offended or how did you react to that man i'm not an emotional driven person and it was logical i mean i i lived by this phrase that i heard once never take advice from somebody that doesn't have the results you desire wow that's that's a good that's a good uh slogan i don't think i've ever heard of that before yeah and i i didn't have the results and i knew i didn't and i knew they did and that it was a piece it was a knowing it was it was a life that i i didn't know and they didn't have anything you know they had nothing they didn't experience anything that i've experienced in life and yet they had more and and so i just i didn't care for a life change i didn't ask god to change my situation i didn't ask him to remove my pain i asked him to save me i couldn't take life anymore and boy he did and i was so grateful to that i it was all gratitude i didn't feel like i i owed god but i was so grateful to that that i in my prayer life in my studio when i shut it down i said i said lord i have learned the guitar i have learned how to rewire them i have learned i built one when i was a kid i've learned about amps and and el you know six l sixes and the preamps and the i learned the pro tools i learned about rivet mics i learned about all kinds of things with touring and marketing and and doing live shows and recording and i mean to every you just to every extent geeked out and i said lord i did it all for myself i am so grateful for you saving my soul i am going to learn the bible more to such an extent than i did music and i'm still on that journey praise god yeah man so what i did is i like i did with music you know i was a big fan of van halen and i would read you know what size strings he would use and his fretboard length and how he put together a frankenstein guitar and then i started reading like his influences were like alan holdsworth and things like that and then eric clapton and all the bands he used to be a part of you know eric and the dominoes and cream and and uh he played with jimmy page and and jeff beck and you know um and oh his he listened to robert johnson and man how he recorded uh that record robert johnson did in like 1938 or 36 something like that san antonio texas and i just became a music historian i wanted just to eat and breathe you know how music happened and how leo fender got started and les paul and how jim marshall created this certain amp that jimmy hendrix got a hold of and didn't think it was defaulted just because it distorted and all of that the british invasion and everything i went in i did theology the same way i started off with a um dummies bible book for dummies and i learned about the papyrus paper and the different berries that they wrote and then i my faith was a little shaken because i found out there were like two bibles and i was like what and i started as a my deism was like okay this is a little shady and i and then i i read a little further and study oh that's the septuagint and this is the mesoretic and the dead sea scrolls fall into that and give the septuagint a little bit more authority and this and this and that and i started just geeking out church history christian apologetics uh i mean hermeneutics biblical hermeneutics homiletics i mean you name it i just dove in like a beast and it was all out of it was all fired from gratitude praise god and i'm also so thankful uh for that christian pastor who was so open and honest and bold with you about getting off the stage because you needed to get your life in order you needed to understand the bible you needed to understand the faith that you pretended to represent on stage and he did so because he was more concerned about your soul than about your feelings or about his friendship with you and i i just praise god for that i know man i'm so thankful even even to this day i mean there there he was the first and person that to ever tell me that and and i was ready for it and i agree and i'm glad i did and matter of fact i mean this this week has been the first week i think i've ever come out since then it's been years uh i've been obedient to that and i run a small um you know homeless ministry and and i'm pastoring at a small church and you know i've got um i just wait on god's timing on things and um i'm you know i'm one of the pastors out there that doesn't want to be a rock star well i want you to i want you to talk more about that ministry after our final break coming up that ministry uh for homeless young men that you have uh and also i want to find out how where and when you discovered the precious doctrines of reform theology also known as calvinism and the doctrines of sovereign grace uh and we'll discuss that during our final half hour of the program we are going to our final break right now if anybody wants to join us with a question for pete orta please do it now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris arnson at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors hi i'm stephen limblad assistant professor of systematic theology at irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas i accepted this call to teach at the seminary because i'm firmly convinced that the people of god in the churches of our lord jesus christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of holy scripture i'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of jesus christ our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths indeed future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of god's people if you want to learn more about our program visit us online at irbs seminary .org

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i'm pastor billy lindhart of sovereign grace particular baptist church of san angelo texas and i'm thrilled to have joined the iron sharpens iron radio family of sponsors we fully subscribe to the second london baptist confession of faith as a faithful summary of the most vital biblical truths desire to worship the triune god of the holy scriptures in spirit and truth and seek to make his glory known in the concho valley west texas and beyond sovereign grace pbc of san angelo purposes to center our worship on the holy scriptures and the gospel of jesus christ in the hope that he will grow us in love and the unity of truth after sunday services join us for a fellowship meal followed by our ladies fellowship in our children's sunday school class if you're looking for a church in west texas that's serious about the word of god and worship that pleases him come visit us for details about sovereign grace particular baptist church of san angelo texas email sgbcsa at gmail .com

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or visit us at sgbcsa .com that's sgbcsa .com

01:31:49

i'm dr gary kimbrough pastor bethlehem baptist church in laurel mississippi god tells us in james 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction in the providence of god three years ago i discovered a poor small church outside lusaka zambia in a township called cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans i found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding what was i to do could i just say god bless you and walk away the situation of the children set heavily upon me as i was praying concerning this need it came to me i trust from the lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is 73 dollars per month per child if just 50 of us would give 35 a month we could meet the need bethlehem baptist church will pay the fee to get the funds there so if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans please send your gift of any amount to bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or donate through our website bbclaurel .com

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again the address is bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or bbclaurel .com

01:33:04

thank you Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

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that's linbrookbaptist .org my name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier ministries i serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles i would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor it's called new covenant church nyc they are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan you can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

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.nyc they believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel if you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again their information can be found at www .ncc

01:35:55

.nyc have a great day chris arenson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuoco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chris arnzen at gmail .com

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that's chris arnzen at gmail .com paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of christ hi i'm mark lukens pastor of providence baptist church we are reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofork massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostle's priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near nofork massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

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that's providence baptist church ma .org or even on sermonaudio .com providence baptist church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics if you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org

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they feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters pastor joe jackowitz pastor robert gifford al martin edward delcour and more firstloveradio .org

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01:40:29

welcome back this is chris arnton if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 20 minutes to go is pete orta former lead guitarist for the world -renowned award -winning christian rock group petra and we are discussing confessions of a renowned christian recording artist who was not a christian and thankfully praise be to the glory and mercy and grace of god pete is not only a christian today he is a very theologically sound christian and also a pastor of the cottonwood creek church in denison texas if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnton at gmail .com

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chris arnton at gmail .com and please do it quickly because we're running out of time very rapidly uh we have lou from sharpsburg georgia who has a question for you uh lou asks what kind of christian music do you like to listen to now and also who are some of your favorite christian artists past and present oh man oh put me on the spot um you know i don't really keep up with ccm anymore um i'm kind of an old dude and i like anything that anybody has done as far as some of the old hymns so i kind of gravitate towards you know that kind of music if i listen uh to music um as far as what was the next question um my favorite artist yes that's that's that's a tough question for somebody that like they're my peers you know um i'm i'm like friends and almost family to um nick gonzalez you know from salvador and and uh jackie velasquez uh i mean i've man we have felt like family for many many years um i i think a lot of these people are just dear to me and and i love many of them um if i could look back and pick one i don't know his theology but man keith green just his story and his dedication just struck me you know um how raw he was and how sincere he was about bringing god glory so you know i don't know if that's you know a good answer but um well it's a truthful answer yeah it's a truthful answer by the way i had a a providential meeting uh at dinner i went to dinner i was in birmingham alabama a few weeks ago for the first time in my life only for one night i went to a a nice restaurant rather than to a fast food one since i was only going to be in birmingham one night and i went to a place called chef on phone and i prayed before walking through the door lord please let me sit next to somebody who is interesting and who will be open to talk with me so i can share something about my faith and sure enough when i go in there a couple said to me that there's an open seat right here they directed me to a seat i asked them their names the wife leaned over and said my husband is a very famous guitarist named jay johnson who performs with a group called skinny molly who are it's comprised of members from leonard skinner and molly hatchet and his father is a world famous blues guitarist uh jimmy johnson who performed and recorded with ella fitzgerald and wilson pickett so i had a very interesting night that night yeah that's awesome uh now we gotta know um where uh you discovered the doctrines of sovereign grace this is funny those stories usually are yes well you know as i am going back through church history uh like i said i i found some modern preachers that i liked at the time and then uh you start to if anybody if i couldn't find a history of somebody's teaching you if they didn't like well my favorite pastor is or these are the guys that i pulled from then you were you were checked off the list you know i was you were blotted off so you know i had to you had to have some history um just like i've met christian artists that i was like man you know um let me ask you man you're you're you're a bass player like who are some of your influences they were like uh michael w smith like dude michael w smith doesn't play bass where are your influences they were they were blotted off my list incredible musicians so um and you performed with michael w smith who recorded with him didn't you yeah i mean there's a picture i got a picture somewhere i've got michael w smith's got me in a headlock so um for real me yeah he's he's an awesome man so um so i'm i'm i start going back and i start digging into who's digging into who's digging in and i stumble across this guy named spurgeon and i start to read about him and then i start to read now and then i'm like well who are his i stopped and i was trying to track down the remnant of theology all the way to the apostles i really was um and so i started going to there and then i found out that he what educated him was the puritans i started ordering books and the puritans and um you know richard baxter and um you know i mean you just you name it you know owens and all of those guys and you know then you find out about augustine i thought that i unearthed reformed theology and and nobody had ever heard of it in today's time i didn't i didn't know any of the you know you know james white or or you know r .c.

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sproll or mcarthur or uh you know voddie bockham or any of the you know st clair ferguson and i mean i'm missing so many of the greats that that that we have uh...

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here today with us still but um i didn't know that that existed so i was reformed before i knew what it was and then once i found the buzzword uh then you can use google to kind of find you know where your tribe is from and you know where how it all happened and then i started studying the senate of dorton all that kind of stuff and plagiarism blah blah blah and you know i've i have this saying that i've always said you know if you know your history you'll know your heresy and uh yeah that's right history so yeah and uh i believe if i'm not mistaken that this month or next month is the 400th anniversary of the cannons of dort if i'm not mistaken uh but um anyway uh let's see we have uh we have susan margaret in dauphin county pennsylvania who asks there is a conflict and dispute in the church over musical instrumentation do you believe that electric guitars are appropriate for worship that is honoring to god and is not man -centered or performance -centered yeah i think that we need to separate the the music from from the lyrics i had a um um an exchange with the pastor that is where spurgeon um preached peter masters yes probably him um he he i got in contact with him and he sent me a book that was completely dismantling any of modern instrumentation and i understand his point i understand that his point was how we have just become a rock concert in a talent show and i get it i mean i'm from nashville i mean i i understand um people's point in that but my point to him was like well when does it stop because the music that he plays and a lot of these people that are anti whatever that you know this isn't the same style that jesus sung i mean we've we're down to 12 notes i mean we're not we should use the middle eastern note scale i mean we should use their instruments at some point it has become modern and even if you like the classical old sound that was pop music back then you know beethoven and mozart and and and you know those guys were that was the modern era and the music that they were listening to so i think that we're really just majoring in the minors here i think that if it is i think that worship needs to be doctrinally sound and i think it has to it has to be able to be sung corporately and if you've got those two things and you know i don't think a guitar should be screaming loud just like i don't believe a lady should wear a big old hat that's screaming loud it's just i think that if it's done modestly and it doesn't pull away from a time of worship you know i say let's let's go for it matter of fact i think that there should be more eclectic things i mean i kind of when i see an electric guitar and a bass and a drum you know i'm like a you know keyboard but you know you'll kind of see maybe a every once in a while at a church service you know a cello or uh you know a trumpet or something different you know a cajon or somebody sit on some type of percussion thing like wow i love that so it's i just think we're really starting to gosh in us right i mean we just have it in us to be jews no matter what i mean we're just gonna we're just gonna add more laws than need to be so you know an electric guitar as long as i think it sounds kind of underneath kind of a pad type thing and if it if it's something that's got a hook that's featured in the song and it's necessary i think it's great but man you know when does it because i'm going to tell you what the the american note scale is very different in the way um the middle eastern people saying in the synagogue so you know we're all wrong if you're hold of those if you're gonna if you're gonna make preferences into doctrines you might want to challenge your own salvation yes i guess the the main um uh the main thing about musical instrumentation is that you can have musical instruments that are creating a mood that is not conducive to worship i i think that that's very true myself because even even composers and musicians will admit they are trying to create a mood of some kind whether they are christian or secular musicians and uh like for instance uh and you said something very very key here it has to be conducive to corporate worship and a lot of ccm music in our day and age not only on i have a feeling you would agree with me is not only uh very shallow biblically or theologically but it's also not conducive for corporate worship it's more conducive for a person or duo or trio to perform yeah yeah and you know and they're because they're signing artists you know and i think there are some record companies that do you know they do create music that churches can use and then there's some artists that just want to do worship songs as a solo artist and they can sing better and higher than anybody else and it's just hard to duplicate that and you know those you know i i pastor a church here and and we try to pull songs that you know that are kind of um you know that sound you know nice and put together well but as far as like i do think it's unfair because i am an artist and i thought let me jump on the other side of the fence because i can i definitely can paint you know musicians into a corner and and show where you know they're erring on on on some biblical things but let me jump on the intellectual theological bullying that's going on and defend the creator because the person that's creating uh coming up with these these concepts you know this is a gift and i hear intellectuals who do not possess this ability speak in an area that they have no business speaking so i think i do i am and when you're saying the creator you're not talking about god you're talking about creator of the yeah creator of the song that the the musician the the artist the the lyricist you know when you're writing songs you know you it is an expression of how you're feeling you know and i think i i am an authority on this but i can sit the intellectuals down if they just sit down for a moment and hear this out because when it comes to somebody that's got a talent of a painting or drawing or theater or things like this when you're writing a song which i have written you know songs since i have been a believer you walk around with this song in your heart it's hard to explain but there it strikes emotion there is this understanding of who god is and what he has done and uh through his son and it starts to move you and when you pick up an instrument the emotion is already there and and and you're writing according to this message that you're laying that you're you're putting this this this music down that is going to fit the lyric and if it's moving it's moving i think sometimes we want to untether um our emotion from worship and i understand because we don't want to side on the charismatic stuff we don't want to you know we don't want to go completely to you know hillsong united and and go into that kind of mesmerizing you know self whatever i get that but my goodness how dry do we have to be yes but on another note though i think some of what you're speaking about in regard to the liberty of an artist i think that falls more in the realm of a person's individual private uh music in regard to what they listen to privately and perhaps when they go to concerts and so forth i think there is a unique category for corporate worship yeah that in fact i saw a meme uh that i reposted on facebook that i just thought was brilliant i don't know if you'll agree with this meme or not but i thought it was not only hilarious but true it said your preferences matter in worship if you are the one being worshipped now and perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration because every church has some kind of preference but but i think i think the point was well made uh yeah man i think it's i think there's certain styles that um you know i think it depends on even what part of the country or what country you're in i mean worship it doesn't sound in africa like it's going to sound here you know or in mexico like it's going to sound in ireland i mean i think every even different parts of the united states is going to be different and i think that christian artists understand that they are christian entertainment just like a christian film or christian theater or christian comedian and i think you are right but there is we have to abandon a lot of that when we are bringing songs into the house of the lord by the way uh ronald in eastern suffolk county uh wanted to let me know the first meeting of the senate of dort was on november 13 16 18 and the final meeting was on may 9th 1619 so the may 9th date was the one i was thinking of so it's not this month it's a couple of months away actually for the 400th anniversary of the senate of dort and i want you uh pete to briefly uh describe to our listeners because i'm going to have you back if you're willing to return yeah to explain in more detail this wonderful ministry that you have but if you could explain briefly to start the ball rolling with this in triumph what is this ministry in triumph about 10 years ago um i felt a call to ministry and um of course i the lord used my feelings um god forbid i know i'm not supposed to be i have feelings but i just this call this pull this knowing this and my wife and i we went in and uh because of my background that i explained earlier i wanted to help young people that from 18 to 24 that just needed help and needed the gospel and needed some guidance and so my wife and i started pulling in homeless young people and they were from the foster care system that uh exited that that were aging out after the age of 18 19 um we just people that were young people that were homeless that were drug addicts that were dealers that were prostitutes uh prostituting themselves for drugs we had all of these people anywhere from 4 to 14 in our in our living room and we were providing food you probably and we still do provide shelter uh we would i mean our we started off with our own clothes our own food our own everything and um we would all meet around this ping pong table and we had pulled out chairs and i would crack the bible open and i would start teaching um bible start discipling teaching the word of god and man i'm telling you what i have been spit on i've been punched in the face i have been choked out till i've almost blacked out and it took a while to get the system smooth it's no longer like that anymore but it's taken a while and having to learn how to profile and a lot of other things to make sure that it's safe for my family and my kids and but they grew up in this very very wild rough environment and we all had sacrificed so that even one would come to know christ amen and we're going to find out uh during your next appearance on iron trap and zion radio which i hope is as soon as next week uh more about uh in triumph and i also want to make sure that our listeners once again hear your website it's peteorta .com