Responding to False Accusations and Lies from Brian at Faith On Fire (and not just towards me)

Responding to False Accusations Against Justin Peters and Faithful Preachers

Welcome to the program, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. Some of you who watch my channel have probably come across the YouTube channel titled Faith on Fire.

It's led by a guy named Brian who lives down in the Orlando, Florida area. And for the last two or three years, Brian has been one of my most vociferous, persistent, and as we are about to see, intellectually dishonest critics out there.

And I want to show you just how intellectually dishonest this guy is. Now, let me say on the onset here that I am not opposed to public criticism. Many of you have heard me say that public ministries are open to public critique, and my ministry is very public and it is very open to public critique, and I am perfectly fine with that.

Public critique does not hurt my feelings. For many years, I have been calling out the likes of Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Beth Moore, Joseph Prince, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, you know the names.

Some of the wealthiest preachers on the planet, and I've been calling them out for the false teachers that they are. And these are people who have millions. In fact, if you take them all together, all these well-known false teachers, it's not hyperbole to say they have literally hundreds of millions of followers.

And so I fully expect disagreement and criticism, and I've received a lot of it, and that's fine. But Brian is someone who says he's not word of faith. You know, he says he doesn't believe in the prosperity gospel.

But he hates cessationism, and he hates Calvinism. Any whiff of cessationism and Calvinism, he absolutely hates it. The vitriolic hatred that he has towards Calvinism and the doctrines of grace, reformed soteriology, it oozes out of his pores.

And I want to show you that what Brian is saying doesn't simply amount to some theological differences. He's intellectually dishonest. And it honestly doesn't bother me what he says about me, per se. This is the first time that I have responded to any of the personal attacks or false attacks, accusations that he has made against me.

I did do a couple of videos about one year ago in which he was making some false accusations regarding Susan Heck, and I set the record straight on that. But I've never really responded to anything that he has said about me in any of my videos.

This is the first. But it's not just me. He says horrific things about faithful men of God, men who have served God faithfully for decades, and he slanders them as well, particularly John MacArthur. And if you take a quick perusal of his channel, and I haven't done an exact count, but just kind of looking in his thumbnails, I'd say probably 30 to 40 of the thumbnails of his videos feature either me or John MacArthur or both.

And those are the videos that he gets the most mileage off of, the most views. You know, like John MacArthur, Justin Peters, Scandal, Expose, all that kind of stuff. He gets the most mileage, most views off of those kinds of videos.

John MacArthur would never take the time. I doubt John MacArthur even knows who this guy is. So I'm going to do this video to show you, again, not so much what he says about me, but the slander that he levies towards other men of God who have been faithful servants of Christ for many years, for many decades.

And I want to show you just how dishonest this guy is. And so I want to show you some clips from a video he put up on his channel a few months ago. And in this video, he goes after Spencer Smith and myself.

Spencer Smith, of course, has his own YouTube channel. And so I'm going to take some excerpts from this and just show you that this is beyond theological differences. This guy is intellectually dishonest.

And so I want you to be aware of who he is. It's one thing to have honest theological differences on various things, but Brian lies to you. And if you cannot trust the man's integrity, if you cannot trust him to at least have a basic level of honesty with you, then everything else, he says, should rightly be called into question.

And again, I don't lose any sleep over what Brian says about me, but it does irk me in a righteous way when he slanders and makes false accusations against men like John MacArthur. And I'm going to show you that here, irrefutable proof that the man just cannot be trusted to have a basic level of honesty, intellectual honesty.

He lies to you. And so everything else past that should rightly be called into question. OK, so here is the first clip from Brian's video that he put up a few months ago and largely dealing with Jesus calling.

So watch this.

Sarah Young, Jesus Calling, and the Charge of Hating Women

Sarah Young recently died and the typical naysayers came out again to demonize this woman and her book. As you can see, here's Spencer Smith. We're going to play a couple of clips here. But basically, the Calvinist and cessationists don't like this woman or any woman for that matter.

And so anyone who comes out with a daily devotional.

So Brian says that Calvinist and cessationists hate this woman, referring to Sarah Young, the author of Jesus Calling. We hate her and we hate all women. Well, a couple of points here. One, Spencer Smith would not call himself a Calvinist, I'm pretty sure, but he is a cessationist.

Spencer and I have not yet met in person, but we've talked a number of times on the phone and we've struck up a bit of a friendship. And I can tell you that Spencer Smith is married to a woman whom he loves very much, as am I.

I am also married to a woman whom I love very much. And so it's just blatantly false to say that we hate all women. Nothing could be further from the truth. And not only do we not hate all women, neither one of us hates Sarah Young.

Now, Sarah Young is dead now. But when Sarah Young was alive, up until a few months ago, when Sarah Young was alive, I didn't hate her.

Not at all.

In fact, those of you who have watched my channel for any amount of time, you probably know that I have a number of videos on my YouTube channel. A direct personal appeal to Kenneth Copeland, to Benny Hinn, to Todd White, to Jesse Duplantis, to Sid Roth.

And I have confronted them and I've called them out as the false teachers that they are. But I've also said, and those of you who watch my channel, you know this, I've said to Benny Hinn or whoever, I don't hate you.

I hate what you're doing because you're leading people astray. You're teaching false doctrine and you're bringing reproach upon the name of Christ. I hate that, but I don't hate you, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Todd White, whatever.

In fact, I say, I love you. I love you enough to tell you the truth. So that is just a slanderous accusation to say that we hate all women or even to say that we hate Sarah Young or some woman who is a false teacher.

I don't hate anybody. I do hate what false teachers do, but I don't hate them. And many of you have heard me say that. And so has Brian. So this is just slander.

With this book, what I noticed that he and no one else has ever done, and they got 365 examples to do it. But I haven't seen anyone. Justin Peters did a thing about this book saying all the same things, getting his information from the similar type of Calvinistic sources of other people who are demonizing the book and the lady.

And yet, how hard would it be to open a book? Go to one page. You've got 365 examples. And read it and say, there's heresy. The reason why they don't do it is because, first of all, they're lazy. They didn't take the time to even read any of it.

They're just simply repeating what other people are repeating to demonize the woman in the book.

So first thing Brian says, again, that we are demonizing the woman. We hate Sarah Young. We're demonizing her. Well, Brian repeating a falsehood over and over doesn't make it any less false. We're not demonizing anybody.

But then he goes on to say, they haven't read this. How hard would it be to open it up and read it? Justin does it. He just gets his information from somewhere else. And he rightly says that I talk about Jesus Calling in my seminars, and I do.

In fact, here is a screenshot of me doing it in one of my presentations. But he says, I haven't taken the time to read Jesus Calling, do my own research. I just get it from other people. Well, this is my copy of Jesus Calling.

I have had this in my possession for well over a decade. And I would just pick up the book and open and show you my writings in here. But my fingers don't, my hands aren't that, I can't do it physically.

We'd be here half the day if I were to try to do that on camera. So what I've done is I have taken some photos with my handy little iPhone. And I'm showing you now some pictures of Jesus Calling, the inside of that very book that I just held up to you.

These are my writings. And those writings, dear friends, the underlining, the little stars, and the exclamation points that you see on various pages, page to page to page, the circling, that's all my writing.

And I will tell you with a crystal clear conscience before God that I made those notes in this book over a decade ago. The presentation that I have in my seminar from Jesus Calling, the little part, the section where I deal with Jesus Calling, and I put those quotations from Sarah Young up on the screen.

You know where I got those? From reading the book myself. These are my writings. In fact, Kathy will tell you, when I started thinking about doing this video, I said, hey, dear, do you know where my Jesus Calling is?

Because I haven't opened it in a number of years. But that is where I got my stuff, and so she had to help me. But sure enough, we found it on it. And this is my copy. And with a crystal clear conscience before God, dear friends, those markings that you see are not only my markings, but they are markings that I made in that book over a decade ago, probably 11 or so years ago.

So, yeah, Brian, sorry, I have read Jesus Calling. But you see, he just makes that false accusation. On what basis does he say that I haven't read it? He has no idea whether or not I've read that book.

I mean, in fact, he should assume that I have since I talk about the book. But he just makes this false accusation. Justin hasn't read it. You know, he hasn't read it. On what basis, Brian, do you say that?

Yeah, I have, actually. False accusation.

And the fact is, in every single page, I'll be honest with you, is there heresy in this book? I really don't know because I never read it. I really read one page, and then I glossed at a couple others.

You can see how my copy is like it's almost like it's brand new, right?

Oh, I see. He's never read it. He says, is there heresy in this book? Well, I don't know. I've never read it.

Is there heresy in this book? I really don't know because I never read it.

Yeah, well, I have, Brian. I mean, dear friends, think of the irony. He makes a false accusation with absolutely no basis whatsoever to say that I haven't read it when I have read it, and he himself has not read it.

I mean, you can't even make this stuff up.

But they're going to tell you that she's channeling God for extra biblical stuff, like she's getting some kind of direction or mystical download by channeling some mystical source she thinks is Jesus, and she's writing that into the book.

Haven't you heard that? That's what they say.

Yep, they do say that. And you know why they say that? Because they have read her book, and that is what she says. So let me read to you right out of her book what she claims. Now, Sarah Young had a book entitled God Calling mailed to her.

God Calling was a book written by two anonymous female mystics. And you might notice that Brian said that, you know, we say that she has this mystical revelation. Well, yeah, God Calling was the inspiration for Sarah Young to write Jesus Calling.

God Calling was written by two anonymous female mystics. This was what inspired Sarah Young to write Jesus Calling. So let me read to you right out of my own copy, which I have read. She says this. The following year, after she read God Calling, the following year I began to wonder if I too could receive messages during my times of communing with God.

I had been writing in prayer journals for years, but that was one-way communication. I did all the talking. I knew that God communicated with me through the Bible, but I yearned for more. You notice how I have that sentence underlined, and you might also notice that that sentence is in the section in which I deal with Jesus Calling.

Yeah, I got that from my own reading. Increasingly, I wanted to hear what God had to say to me personally on a given day. I decided to listen to God with pen in hand, writing down whatever I believed he was saying.

I felt awkward the first time I tried this, but I received a message. It was short, biblical, and appropriate. It addressed topics that were current in my life—trust, fear, closeness to God. My journaling had changed from monologue to dialogue.

Soon, messages began to flow more freely, and I bought a special notebook to record these words. This new way of communicating with God became the high point of my day. So, yeah, they do say that, because that is exactly what she says.

And you would have known that, Brian, if you had read the book. You know, like I have.

It's incredible, the hypocrisy of these men.

And if by these men you mean you, yeah, the hypocrisy is indeed incredible.

But anyway, before I get to the incredible story that relates to this book, obviously Sarah Young did die. He's doing a video on it. It was about two weeks ago that he did this video. And let me just play a beginning clip of what he said.

Here we go.

Sarah Young, the author of the book Jesus Calling, which really was one of the most dangerous Christian books ever written. And I say Christian with quotation marks on it. It was a mystical mess. It was really bad.

Nope.

So Spencer Smith says that Jesus Calling was one of the most dangerous quote-unquote Christian books to have ever been written. And he says it was a mystical mess to which Brian confidently responds, Nope.

Nope. Brian can assure you that this is not a dangerous book. It is not a mystical mess. He can assure you that even though he's never read it. Okay, got it. Dear friends, Spencer Smith was 100 right.

It is a very dangerous book. It is a mystical mess. And I thought about going into some of that in this video. I'm going to hold off on that for a future video, Lord willing in the relatively near future on Jesus Calling.

And I'm going to do a deep dive on Jesus Calling. And I want to show you why this is indeed a very dangerous book. And it is indeed every bit the mystical mess that Spencer Smith says that it is. Rightly so.

But Brian, oh no, he can assure you that that's not true. Even though he's never read the book.

He's always doing it. And so protesting. Give me a break. And here's the other. So he spends most of this video is him quoting from this article by this five-point Calvinist, Tim Challies. Tim Challies, I'm sure is a wonderful, nice guy.

But he's a five-point Calvinist, so he's got some serious heretical doctrines. And he's a Reformed Baptist up in Canada. And he wrote an article criticizing this book.

So Spencer Smith, in the video that he did on Jesus Calling, he quotes at length from an article that Tim Challies wrote, which was a critical review of Jesus Calling. But Brian completely dismisses that because, you see, Tim Challies is a Calvinist.

And because he's a Calvinist, nothing that he says can be trusted at all. You've heard of Trump derangement syndrome. Brian has Calvinist derangement syndrome. Basically, the antipathy that Brian has towards Calvinism is so deep-seated that it's almost to the point, and this might be slightly hyperbolic, slightly.

If a Calvinist were to walk up to Brian and say the sky is blue, Brian wouldn't believe him simply because he's a Calvinist. So if it's coming from a Calvinist, according to Brian, you just dismiss it out of hand.

Well, the article that Spencer Smith quotes from by Tim Challies is actually quite a good article. And so, in fact, I will link it down below right there for anyone who wants to watch it or read it, rather.

And, by the way, just in case you're wondering, Brian, no, I did not get my information from Tim Challies' article, though I appreciate the article. No, I got my information from my own copy of the book, which I read and underlined and marked long before I even knew there was an article by Tim Challies on Jesus Calling.

I didn't need his article because I had actually, you know, read the book.

Calvinism, Continuationism, and Honest Criticism

And then they want to demonize everyone by looking at the extreme cases and pointing to everyone who disagrees with them, except for one, one little group. You ever notice this, right? John Piper is a continuationist, but he's a five-point Calvinist.

You're never going to see the likes of Justin Peters criticizing John Piper because he's a Calvinist.

So Brian says you'll never see Justin Peters criticize John Piper because John Piper is a Calvinist and Justin Peters doesn't criticize a fellow Calvinist. Well, I imagine there's a number of you right now watching this video and you're thinking, now, wait a minute, I've heard Justin Peters criticize John Piper.

And you know what? You have because I have criticized John Piper on a number of different occasions. I've done my seminar, Clouds Without Water, now in 46, I think, of the 50 states and in 30-some-odd countries around the world.

And in almost all of those occasions, we have one or more Q &A sessions. And it is quite frequent that I am asked about my opinion of John Piper. And many of you watching right now, what I'm about to say, this is about to ring a bell.

Yep, yep, I've heard Justin say that. So what do I say about John Piper? I affirm John Piper as a brother. I fully expect to see him in heaven. But I do believe that he has some massive blind spots when it comes to discernment.

And I believe his blind spots are all a result of his continuationist theology, his charismatic theology. I say that I have benefited from John Piper's preaching and writing, and I have, and many of you watching right now have also.

But he is a charismatic. And I believe because of that, it has led him to make some just massive mistakes in areas of discernment, specifically his endorsement of Rick Warren. Back in 2008, 2009, somewhere in there, he interviewed Rick Warren.

And John Piper bent over backwards to help Rick Warren extricate himself from all the theological holes that he has dug. I think that was a massive mistake on John Piper's part. Rick Warren is a false teacher, and the holes that he's dug for himself, Rick Warren, have only gotten deeper since then.

John Piper has spoken at the Passion Conferences right alongside with and been on stage with Christine Kane, Beth Moore, doing Lectio Divina. I think that is a massive discernment fail on John Piper's part.

So can I recommend John Piper without any reservation? No, I can't. Do I expect to see him in heaven? Yes, I do. Absolutely. But again, sadly, these massive holes in his discernment and associations and endorsements of some false teachers, I think they all are a direct result of his continuationist theology.

But it is emphatically not true that I am unwilling to criticize John Piper or any other Calvinist simply because they are Calvinist. And I would point out, John Piper was mentioned in the Strange Fire Conference of which I was a part back in 2013.

Even more recently in the cessationist documentary that was just released a few months ago, there's a section in the cessationist film in which Phil Johnson, also in the film, criticizes John Piper. Affirms him as a brother, yes, but notes that his continuationist position has led to some holes in discernment.

So it's just, sorry, Brian, you're just wrong again. In fact, if you're watching this video and you've been in one of my Clouds Without Water seminars, and you've heard me say that in a Q &A in response to a question about John Piper, feel free to put that down in the comments section.

Brian is wrong again. Yet another false accusation.

And Calvinists stick together. It's like a cult, right? And they never oppose one another. They're always supporting one another because the glue that holds them together is these phony five points of Calvinism called the doctrines of grace or TULIP.

So if you affirm TULIP, you're in the club. Wouldn't matter if you're sprinkling babies for baptism or your continuation. It wouldn't matter no matter how doctrinally different another Calvinist would be.

You're never going to do a video criticizing them.

Nope, nope. I'll never critique a fellow Calvinist. Never do that. And unless, of course, you count, well, John Piper we've talked about, unless you, of course, include Tim Keller, who I have publicly critiqued because of his involvement with the social justice movement, his participation on the board of BioLagos, which argues for theistic evolution, and him being very unclear about the exclusivity of Christ.

I've also critiqued Matt Chandler because he's got one foot in one foot out of the social justice movement, maybe even one and a half feet in. But I've critiqued him for that as well as his continuationist theology.

And I've had him in my seminar. I don't call him a false teacher, but I do talk about how he also promotes this mysticism and hearing from God outside of Scripture.

Like I'm just going to go to Danny and I'm going to be like, hey, brother, you heard my sermon. I was praying. Danny was a pirate ship. It's a shark chasing it. There were cannons. I'm not going to interpret that for him.

I'm not going to be like, what I think that means is that maybe you're stealing some stuff from people. And Jesus is the shark and you need to repent. I'm not going to interpret that for him. I'm just going to go.

And in a great deal of humility, I'm just going to be, does that make any sense to you?

No, it doesn't make any sense at all on any level. Does that make any sense?

Many, many, many, many of you have seen me do that. And Ligon Duncan. Now, Ligon Duncan, not only is Ligon Duncan a Calvinist, but he's also a cessationist. And surely I would never critique a fellow Calvinist and a cessationist, except that I have.

I have critiqued Ligon Duncan because of some very unbiblical things that he has taught, resultant from his dipping his toes in the waters, the poisoned waters of social justice, and has made him to say some profoundly unbiblical things.

And not only have I done that, I did it at the Truth Matters conference in the spring of 2022 with John MacArthur sitting in the front row as I was doing it. And I point that out simply because Ligon Duncan, up until a few years ago, was a regular speaker at the Shepherds Conference.

But then, sadly, he got blown about by the winds of social justice. Now, I was very careful in what I said. I said he's not calling him a false teacher. I believe he's a brother, but this is the dangers of the social justice movement.

And I showed some things that he said that were very unbiblical. And if you want to see more of that, then I tell you what, I'll put down below in the description, I'll put the link to my presentation at the Truth Matters conference from spring of 2022, and you can see that.

So, Brian, it's just yet another false accusation. Now, I want to show you a section of his video in which he says that I teach that if you are a continuous, if you believe that all of the signed gifts continue to be operative in the church today, that I believe there is no chance.

You are a Christian. You are outside of the camp. You do not belong to God. If you're a charismatic, you are lost.

But you'll go out there and you'll make a big stink just because somebody in some charismatic church wrote a tweet that you're going to pick apart and call them unsaved because of it.

You may as well be a Mormon. You may as well be a Jehovah's Witness. You may as well be a Muslim as to be word of faith. Friends, the charismatic movement is utterly morally and theologically bankrupt.

Dear friends, these people are not Christians. They are not Christians. Word of faith preachers, teachers, New Atheistic Reformation, they are not Christians. Oh, Justin, you're saying that they're not saved?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

So there you have it. So what does Justin Peters think about you if you believe in 1 Corinthians 12 and the spiritual gifts and you believe the Bible is true when it says they'll continue until the second coming of Jesus?

He thinks you're unsaved on that basis alone because he's lumping you in with a bunch of fringe charismatics just because you don't agree with his cessationism.

Liar. Liar.

I have never said that if you believe that all of the spiritual gifts continue to be operative in the church today that that means you are not a Christian, that you are not saved. I have never once a single time said that.

And if you can prove, if anyone can prove that I have ever said that all charismatics are lost, I will shut my ministry down today and I will shut it down permanently. I've never said that. The clips that Brian showed you in his video, I was specifically talking about word-of-faith teachers, word-of-faith preachers, and or those who hold to word-of-faith doctrine, who understand what the doctrines teach and their aberrant heretical view of God, of Christ, and their exalted view of man and the distorted gospel that it teaches.

That is the part of my seminar, it's in the section entitled Dangerous Doctrines, when I show clip after clip after clip after clip after clip of people like Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis and Benny Hinn and Todd White and all these, Bill Johnson, all these prominent word-of-faith teachers teaching not just error on secondary issues, teaching gospel-denying heresy.

And I say that those people, people who teach word-of-faith theology, who understand the doctrines and have taught it for years, these prominent leaders, that's who I'm talking about. They are not Christians, and I stand by that.

Benny Hinn is not a Christian, Kenneth Copeland is not a Christian, Bill Johnson is not a Christian, Todd White is not a Christian, Joel Osteen is not a Christian. These are wolves in sheep's clothing, and barely sheep's clothing at that.

The reason I say they are not Christians is because not only have they been teaching blatant objective heresies, gospel-denying heresies, they have been called to repent for decades, not just by me, but by many others.

John MacArthur and many, many, many others have all called them to repent, and yet they don't do it. They continue to teach these heresies. And many of you watching this video, you know you have heard me say this, that the reason I believe that they're lost, and I teach that they are lost, is because if they were saved, if they did have the third person of the triune Holy Spirit indwelling inside of them, then when they taught these blatant, blood-curdling, obvious heresies, the Holy Spirit who indwells them would convict them of that sin, and they would repent.

But yet they don't. They feel no conviction about it. They continue to teach these things, even after me and a thousand other people have called them to repent of these things. And yet they don't. So that is not someone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God.

That's who I say are unregenerate. Those people, yes, are unregenerate. But I have never said that if you simply hold to a charismatic position, as much of an error as I believe that that is, and it is, I have never said that that means you're lost.

I mean, we've already talked about it. John Piper believes that. I don't believe he's lost. I believe he's a brother in Christ. And Brian knows that. He knows that. Because, I mean, dear friends, I have said that very thing thousands of times.

In every seminar I do, in every single time I present Clouds Without Water, in the section entitled Mangled Manifestations, I talk about the difference between charismatic and word of faith. And I say that all word of faith are charismatic, but not all charismatics are word of faith.

And I say the debate, whether you hold to cessationism like I do, or continuationism, I say that is an important debate, but it is not in and of itself a salvific issue. There are genuine believers who come down on different sides of that position, and they are still part of the family of God.

So I've said that thousands of times. Many of you watching this right now, you know I have, because you've heard me say it. Many of you in person have heard me say that. Brian knows that I've said that.

In fact, just to show you one example, I went to YouTube and I did a search. My name, I said, put in Justin Peters Mangled Manifestation and click search. And the very first video that popped up is this one.

I downloaded it, and here's the section. And this is from, I want to say 2014, 2015 or so. So it's been at least eight, maybe going on nine years ago. So you'll notice that the fall has taken a bit of its toll on my body.

I have lost some hair and found some LBs since then. But at any rate, watch this from nine or so years ago. I want us to return to our discussion of cessationism versus continuism. And that debate is an important debate.

But it is not in and of itself salvific. In other words, genuine Christians can come down on different sides of this debate and still have fellowship in Christ. So it's not a matter of whether or not you're saved in and of itself.

However, it is a very important issue. Because where you come down on that issue, you will have a lot of ripple effects in how you view a number of other issues as well, especially dealing with the sufficiency of Scripture.

So it's not a question in and of itself whether or not you're a Christian, but it is very, very important. So I encourage you to know what you believe and to know why you believe it. Is that unclear? Now, has Brian seen that particular video?

I don't know. Good chance that he has because it was the first thing that came up when I did a search for it. But even if he hasn't seen that specific video, dear friends, I have said those very words, what you just heard me play, I have said that hundreds upon hundreds of times.

That is not hyperbole. I wouldn't be surprised if I've said it well over a thousand times. As in many churches as I've been in all around the world, I've said it on my own YouTube channel. And Brian watches a lot of my stuff because I can tell some of the clips that he uses of me go back a number of years.

They date back to about the time of this particular video that I just showed you. So he has watched a lot of my videos. There is no way on this green earth that he has not heard me say what you just heard me say in that video clip.

It's just not possible. And if he says he hasn't, that's a lie. That is a lie. I'm going to show you another lie. I happened to look down in the comments section of the video that he put up, and I read what he said here, took a screenshot of it.

He says, Justin is a five-point Calvinist, preaches a false works-based gospel. It's so ironic. That's a subject for another video. Calvinism is the polar opposite of a works-based salvation. But at any rate, he says that is why he is a false teacher.

So I'm a false teacher, which means I'm unregenerate. But he says this. He says, You can try to defend him all you want, but he has often said that all charismatics are unsaved people on that basis alone.

Liar.

Absolute liar. Brian says that I have often said that on that basis. That is a lie. Brian, you are lying through your teeth. I have never said that. And if you can provide even one example, anyone, anyone watching this video, provide one example, I'm shutting my ministry down, selling everything.

I'll follow my own advice. What I tell Kenneth Copeland and Todd White and the others, if you're truly repentant, you'll shut your ministry down because you realize you're unqualified to be behind the pulpit.

Shut it down. Join a good Bible-believing, Bible-teaching church. Sit in the pew and learn. Well, I'm already doing that. I'm already part of a good Bible-believing, Bible-preaching church. But nonetheless, I will shut it down.

You provide one example, I'll shut it down. That is a flat-out lie, Brian. You have never heard me say that. You just lied. Many of you have probably seen the interview that I did with John MacArthur a couple of years ago.

I put it up on my YouTube channel. And before I played the interview, I recorded an introductory section there where I talked a little bit about the impact that John MacArthur in his preaching and teaching has had on me, has had on my wife Kathy, and has had on millions of people around the world.

And so I talked a little bit about that. And I said, just because of the sheer breadth of his ministry, how God has chosen to use him in the hundred-some-odd books that he's written, in the commentary set, in the systematic theology, in the master seminary, and all of the men that they have trained over decades to go out and plant churches, pastor churches, I think that God, and simply also the age in which we live, the Internet age and how quickly we can get material disseminated now, I said that I think the argument could be made that God has chosen to use John MacArthur in a broader way, just the scope of his ministry.