No Discipline, No Church

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, "'But we did not yield in subjection to them "'for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel "'would remain with you.'".

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

We're here to take your calls as well. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Church Discipline as a Mark of the True Church

My name is Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. We're found on the internet at nocompromiseradio .com. Today is Friday, September 11th. Who would imagine many years ago the tragedy of the Twin Towers?

Today is September 11th, and it's Friday, what we call Mystery Friday. That's basically an opportunity for me to talk about whatever I want to talk about. Yesterday, we looked at hermeneutics, and today we're going to look at another issue that I think is important for Christians to think about, and I think it's one of the most underestimated and extinct things in all of Christianity, and that is church discipline.

Church discipline, loving wayward sheep enough to do what the Bible says, loving God enough to handle wayward sheep the right way. And many churches will deal with church discipline certain ways, others will deal with another way.

Frankly, what we want is, what does the Bible say? What does the Bible say when it comes to church discipline? If you have a Bible, Matthew 18 is probably where you need to go to start, and it tells us exactly what is going on.

Matthew 18, it is the Lord speaking about keeping the church pure. You wouldn't want to live in a society that had no rules, would you? People could flaunt the rules and disobey, having all kinds of anarchy, no consequences, no fines, no tickets, no prison.

What kind of environment would that be for your children? You don't want chaos at home either, do you? Even if you don't use some kind of discipline, even if you don't spank your children, maybe you talk to them, maybe you do a timeout, maybe you take things away, whatever kind of form of discipline, as long as it's biblical and legal that you do, you do it for a reason, and that is because you don't want chaos.

But the problem is, churches now, they tolerate sin in their own body, in their own church. We live in a consumeristic society, and if you stand up, a pastor stands up and says, this particular person, based on this particular sin, is unrepentant, and we've gone to them on many separate occasions and prayed for them, and over the months, they've still rejected the testimony of the Bible.

And we will now do what Jesus says to do. And Jesus tells us that we are to tell you. The text says this, if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private. If he listens to you, you have won your brother.

But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every fact may be confirmed, just like Deuteronomy 19. It's from Deuteronomy 19. You need witnesses to this transaction.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the elder board, the deacon board, the bishop. No, it says tell it to the church. So here's my question to you and for you. If you're in a church in Worcester and your church doesn't practice step one, two, three, and four, step one, private.

Step two, take one or two with you. Step three, tell it to the church. Step four, if he refuses, Jesus said to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a tax gather, excuse me, as a tax gather and Gentile.

If your church doesn't do that, my question to you is why don't they? And can you really be in a local church that does not have discipline? Of course, we don't want to run around and be microscopic sin observers and have to have discipline every single Sunday.

But there needs to be a Christian church that says we will do what the Bible says, even though in our consumeristic society, when people go to churches, they pick and choose who wants to go through that uncomfortable time when someone by name is excommunicated from the church.

They're out of communication and out of fellowship. They're kicked out of the church. Today, we're gonna talk about that very issue. Can you be at a real Bible teaching church? Can you be at a Bible believing church, a Bible doing church and have no church discipline at all?

You can't have someone who moves in with a woman who's not his wife and then have him just kind of disappear. The text is very clear. Tell it to the church. When's the last time you heard a pastor stand up during a communion service and say, sadly, but because we have to obey God and love him and because we wanna love our brother and try to restore him back, this person is kicked out of the fellowship of the church.

It's just unheard of. And I would like to tell you today that most great church confessions and most great church theologians would say that if you do not have church discipline, you don't have a church.

You mean to tell me that you don't want any discipline at home, you don't want any discipline in society, you don't want any discipline at your work. Well, of course you do. So why no discipline at the church?

Especially when it's clear. The Belgic Confession, 1561. Three characteristics by which the true church is known. Preaching of pure doctrine, administration of the sacraments, call them ordinances if you'd like, and the exercise of church discipline.

Heidelberg Catechism, Germany, 1563. Question 83, what are the keys of the kingdom of heaven? The preaching of the holy gospel, Christian discipline or excommunication out of the Christian church. By these two, the kingdom of heaven is open to believers and shut against unbelievers.

Frankly, that is so shocking. Most people think today, well, what are the pillars of a local church? One, it's a place where I get my needs met, everybody affirms me, they've got rock music, they've got some good drama, they play gladiator clips and Braveheart clips on the movie theater, and they have a rockin' great youth ministry.

Please, what is a church known for? Abstract of principle of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 1858. Three marks of a church. True order, discipline, and worship. Nobody before the war would even think that some church without discipline would even be counted as a church.

Friends, you can call yourself anything you'd like, but Christian is taken and a Christian submits to the word of God. So where are those courageous pastors, those courageous elders and deacons, those courageous congregants that say, yes, once every three years or four years, it doesn't have to be every month, that when there's sin that needs to be dealt with, we will obey Jesus and tell it to the church.

Hermeneutically speaking, what does that mean? It means tell it to the church. And step three is you say, we wanna pray for this person, we want to not humiliate him, he's a sinner, we are sinners as well, and let's run, and let's run to him and in love, beckon him back to fellowship, tell him to repent of his sins and come back.

And then if he refuses, then it's excommunication. There are benefits to a local church assembly and people who are in unrepentant sin, a lot of times it has to do with sexual sin or maybe some aberration in theology, they don't get the things associated with the local church like kindness and fellowship and warmth and all that.

Daniel Ray said, the modern church seems more willing to ignore sin than to denounce it. I was talking to some friends lately and my standard MO is this, when you're shopping for a church, of course, look at some sermons online and try to find faithful exposition, preferably verse by verse.

Of course, look at the doctrinal statement, but you better find the constitution as well. And you need to find a constitution that says, if we need to do church discipline, of course, church discipline is a broad category, that's step one, two, three or four.

But I'm talking about the big ones, the kind that make people leave the church because they're upset because we're not loving enough. Step three and four, tell it to the church, then excommunicate. Those things need to be in the constitution.

So if you're looking for a new church, that's what you need to do. You don't need to ask about style of music. You don't even have to ask about what are their views of spiritual gifts and some of those things.

We have a very broad base in terms of what we allow people to believe to be in the local church. But if you want to join the church and be a member of the church, you have to affirm what Jesus said. I mean, like James Boyce told the Bible Study Fellowship ladies years ago, take your finger and move to the Bible where it says Matthew 18, 15 and read these verses out loud.

You can't get around them. So my question is, if your church does get around them, then you've got a big problem. I'm not saying to leave the church. I'm saying that what are you going to do when there is a problem with sin and they don't deal with it?

One bad apple spoils the whole bunch, doesn't it? That's exactly right. For the purity of the church and for the love of God, if you love me, Jesus said, you will keep my commandments. And so we want to make sure that we understand that purity is demanded of God's people.

We want pure shepherds, but we want the bride to be pure as well. People ask a lot of times, well, you're just trying to rub their nose in their sin, that's why you want to announce it. No, I don't think that's the case at all.

You want to glorify God as you do all obedience, including discipline. If you have to discipline your children, I'm sure it doesn't feel good, but we have to go on what the scriptures teach, not necessarily our feelings.

Immature people base everything on feeling, not the mature ones. And so why do we do church discipline? I can give you a few reasons. Number one, because it glorifies God as we obey. Number two, because it keeps the church pure.

Number three, because it reclaims offenders. That's exactly what happens. Somebody comes running, somebody comes calling, people are praying for you, we want them to come back. We want there to be the prodigal son returning and have a big celebration.

I've said to our church, if we have to church discipline somebody, steps one, two, three, and four, and we've had to, if they come back repentant, then we have a huge pig roast. The elders buy the pig, we all have a huge roast.

The vegans and others can eat whatever they'd like, but we're gonna have a wonderful party to say, thank you, Lord, for bringing back an erring sheep. Friends, we're all sinners. We all have our justification only found in the work of another Christ Jesus.

Nobody's better, nobody's worse. We are all sinners saved by grace. We were all dead in our trespasses and sins. We were all following Satan, and he rescued us. And as he rescued us, he then gave us his marching orders found in the text, and Jesus could not be clear.

I'm gonna say it over and over and over this show. If you say you're at a Bible teaching church and your church doesn't tell it to the church when necessary, the particular sins, and then excommunicate, you are not a church.

How can you be a church? At least, well, maybe you are a church, but you say, we are not a church that will do the hard thing. What if half the people leave your church because you obey the Bible? Would you be willing to do that, Pastor?

Well, of course, because they're not our people. They're God's people, and we want to reclaim offenders as we take it to that level. The other thing we wanna do, 1 Timothy 5, and we'll look at this another time, it makes other people not sin.

I'll tell you what, the first time I walked into Grace Community Church and had listened to John MacArthur tell somebody, tell the congregation by name a person who was in sexual sin and that they were excommunicated, I couldn't believe it.

I was shocked. And then I read the passage. I mean, what am I going to say? You read the passage in Matthew 18, you read the passage in Titus 3, you read the passage in Galatians 6, there's no way you can get around it.

You start doing, well, the Bible's written by man, and this is a different cultural thing. It's a bunch of shenanigans that you have to do. It is right there. Besides the logical reasons, besides some of these other inferences, you say to yourself, it's there, and it deters other people from sinning.

And you say, this church loves me so much that if I go off and sin, they'll come after me. Don't you want that in your shepherd? Of course you do. I love to counsel people that want to get married, and I tell them towards the end of marital counseling, I'll tell them, now, by the way, if either one of you gets divorced for unbiblical reasons, that is, getting divorced for anything less than marriage fidelity, then we will discipline you, and we will even kick you out of the church.

We love you that much. We think marriage is that important. We think obeying God is that important. We believe Matthew 18 is in the Bible, and Jesus, the head of the church, told us to do that. And most of the time, they look at me and smile.

They think I'm probably kooky. That's true, but it's in the text. John Trapp said, better to be pruned to grow up than to be cut up and burned. And so that's the issue. Churches don't do church discipline today for many reasons.

One is they're afraid. They're afraid of the consequences. They're afraid of legal problems. They're afraid of, every time we've done church discipline, somebody's left the church, not the person kicked out, but other people, because it comes across as so unloving.

They just misdefine, they redefine love. They redefine what love is, and Jesus said, here's what love is, you keep my commandments. Of course, love is patient and kind, which you keep reading in 1 Corinthians 13.

Love rejoices in or with the truth. Some churches are just ignorant on what to do. They don't understand it. Some don't care. They're just indifferent. Some don't want to, some rock the boat. Many, many times, there's somebody in the church who's very, very rich.

They keep the church afloat. Their kid goes off the deep end. They get disciplined out, and they say to the elders, if you discipline my kid, I'm turning off the money. What do you do? Answer, you work with the family, and you do what the Bible teaches you to do, no matter what.

If you get closed down, fine. If you get sued, fine. But the biggest reason why I think people don't do church discipline is, there's some kind of cry these days that we can't judge, and it's such an illogical thing.

If Jesus says, you do these steps, of course we have to judge. We're not eternally judging. We don't want to self-righteously judge. We want to judge and examine and discern. You have to judge some things, don't you?

Don't let the world steal that verse. The world's favorite verse, Matthew 7, 1, judge not lest you be judged. You have to judge. It's logical to do it. It's biblical to say, oh, this person's a sin. And so we have to be very careful.

We are not putting some scarlet letter or something on someone's back. That's what people think church discipline is now, some scarlet letter. I go back to the Farmer's Almanac. It's not Michael Jackson who said it.

One bad apple can spoil the whole barrel. And so it's the most loving thing you could ever do to confront and to correct an erring member. Wouldn't it be loving? Do you think Jesus loved us when he came and sought us and he confronted us and he corrected us and he rebuked us and he captured us for himself?

The analogy is really close. And so we want to be careful. I remember one preacher preached a sermon called Reproof, a Christian duty. He said, if your neighbor is in sin and you pass by and neglect to reproof him, it is just as cruel as if you should see his house on fire and pass by and not warn him of it.

Second John six is clear. And this is love that we walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning that you should walk in it. I'll go so far to say this.

If your church doesn't do church discipline, then that church is not a loving church. If you are in a church where it doesn't do church discipline and of course it doesn't have to all be by the elders and deacon and bishop or whoever the polity is, we're talking about congregation involved in the life of the congregation up to the point of excommunication.

If your church is not willing to do that, maybe you've never done it because you're a fairly new church and you haven't had need to do it. But if you've been around for a while and you don't do that, you are the most unloving church.

A, you don't love Jesus like you should because if you did, you'd obey him. And B, you don't love the people. G .I. Williamson said, lack of church discipline is to be seen for what it really is, having no loving concern and being a hypocrite and being indifferent to the honor of Christ and the welfare of the flock.

Revelation 3, verse 19 is another clear verse. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, be zealous therefore and repent. And so it's not a matter of some kind of witch hunt. It's not a way to get even with people.

I'll teach you to cross me and brush up against me. It's not searching down rumors. It's love. It's driven by the elders who are godly, patient, kind. And they wanna make sure that there's a nourishment in the church and that when the weeds begin to grow in the lives of the people, that they're addressed.

I used to tell my kids, if I don't discipline you, God will discipline me. And if the church doesn't discipline her people, I think God will discipline the church. I know he will. Revelation 2, 18, unto the church of Thyatira, and I write, the son of God who has eyes like flame of fire, his feet are like burnished bronze, says this.

Here's what Jesus says with this righteous judgment, eyes like a blazing fire. I know your deeds, Revelation 2, 19, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than the first.

You have action when it comes to love. Verse 20, Revelation 2, 20, underline this verse. But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel. That word means unchaste. Jezebel, of course, in the Old Testament, 1 Kings 16 and 21 and 2 Kings 9, was a woman, a real woman, well-known.

And this woman was hated. One person called her the Lady Macbeth of the Bible. 2 Kings 9 says she was the cursed woman. And she leads Ahab to worship Baal, all kinds of idolatry. Here's this name of the Canaanite wife of Israel's King Ahab.

And now we've got this, maybe it's a pseudonym, maybe it is a nickname, but here conjures up all kinds of things. And Jesus says, I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, this false prophetess, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads my bond servants astray, so that they will commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

And I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. And Jesus says in Revelation 2, 22, behold, I will cast her upon a bed of sickness. Those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.

Jesus basically says this, she's leading the people into immoral sexual activity. And if she wants to do that, I'll give her a bed. I'll cast her on a bed. She wants a bed, she gets a bed. And so Jesus is clear.

He says in verse 23, and I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

But I say to you, the rest of we're in Thyatira, and he goes on to discuss other issues. We want to make sure we don't lose Jesus from our midst as he leaves, because we are not brave enough. We're not educated enough.

We're not resolved enough to obey the scriptures. Matthew 18. Sometimes we like to go to that verse, and the only thing we know about Matthew 18 is, you know, for where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.

Can you imagine? That verse has to do with church discipline. Jesus is everywhere. Wherever you pray, Jesus is there. Is it nice to pray with some other Christians? Yes, of course. But that verse has nothing to do with prayer, A.

B, it has nothing to do with prayer meetings. It has nothing to do with worship services. It has to do with this. When you go and you do what the Bible says, even though it's hard, it's difficult, you might sweat, you don't have a peace about it, but you go anyway.

I'll tell you what. You won't operate by, I've got a peace about this when you go to church discipline. I'll tell you that. You'll say, I'm scared to death. I don't want to do this. I wouldn't do this, but the Bible teaches me, so I'll go.

And then you go and you tell it, you take one or two more with you, you tell it to the church, all that. As you're going to do those things, you have Christ there with you to do it. In the context of church discipline, for where two or three have gathered together in my name, for what?

The context is discipline. That's what the context is. It just says in verse 19, again, I say to you that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by my Father who is in heaven.

So that doesn't help me much. That's right after the very previous verse. Together, truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

This has everything to do with, you go there to do church discipline for the love of the Lord and his word and for the love of the people and for the love of the church and for the love of that unrepentant sinner.

And you do this and you say, do you know what? As far as God is concerned, you need to be thrown out of the church. God's already agreed with you. It's already been bound in heaven. He knows and he confirms it.

And Jesus is there in your midst. Remember the great commission? Lo, I'm with you always, even until the end of the age. Isn't that an encouragement to go evangelize? Isn't it good to know that Jesus is with us as we go evangelize?

Certainly it is. And isn't it good to know that Jesus is in the midst of his church as his brothers go out and try to keep the church pure and try to love the God who has bought the church and purchased this church with his own blood.

And so we come back full circle as time goes by very quickly on No Compromise Radio. My name is Mike Ebendroth and I'll just be so bold to say because it's straight from scripture. Every Bible that's in your church has Matthew 18 in it.

And Matthew 18 verses 15 through 17, then leading to 20, has church discipline. And first you go in private, then you take one or two more, then you tell it to the church and then you treat them as a tax gather.

And so at our church, the first two steps are done, can be done in private, and then the elders get involved. A lay person doesn't stand up and tell it to the church. But if your church won't announce church discipline and people by name, then I'm saying to you, well, no wonder there's problems in your church.

You have to be very, very careful. Church discipline is out of love. It's out of concern. Don't be an unloving church. Don't say, well, I'll just cover it. Lots of times you should cover sin. First Peter chapter four gives us an illustration of that.

We are to cover it. We're not to confront on any particular sin. How'd you like to be married to somebody that confronted you every time you sin? No, but when it's gonna break fellowship, when it brings shame to Jesus, when it breaks up a church, when it affects everyone else, there's a time to do it.

Sadly, it's mostly with sexual sin and people do that. Or lots of times it's with divorce. People just wanna take off for no good reason. And no good reason means no Bible reason. And don't give me, I'm emotionally hurt and emotionally abused.

No, it's one thing. It's adultery. You are not allowed to leave your husband. It's adultery. Or you are not allowed to leave your wife. If you're a Christian, if your spouse isn't a believer and they take off, then first Corinthians seven deals with that.

Friends, it's the most loving thing you could do. People say, oh, the church isn't very loving. I would say, what do you mean by love? You've got the wrong definition. The church is loving because she obeys Jesus.

Are you at a real church? Are you at a church that has church discipline? If so, you'll find it in your constitution. And I would challenge you to go ask your pastor kindly and nicely this Sunday. Pastor, do we ever announce people by name according to what Jesus said in Matthew 18?

And if so, great. And if we don't, why? You need to be in a church that loves you enough to confront you when you sin. This is Mike Abendroth, No Compromise Radio. God bless you.

Program Sign-Off and Station Disclaimer

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.