November 4, 2020 Show with Jerry Bowyer on “What Jesus Really Said About Social Justice & Economics”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who

are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

this day after Election Day, November 4th, 2020.

And we're still, as far as I know, waiting for a final outcome of that election.

So I hope that all of you will trust in the sovereignty of God, no matter what the news

turns out to be, because God reigns and he

raises up leaders, good ones and bad ones, and we just have to

trust in his sovereignty over the situation.

But I'm thrilled to have, for the very first time ever on this program, Jerry

Boyer.

He comes by the very highest and strongest recommendations of my dear friend, Gary

DeMar, President of American Vision, who I've had on this program many times.

And he is a financial economist, public speaker for business conferences, frequent radio

and television guest, author and journalist.

And today we are going to be discussing his book, The Maker vs. The Takers, What Jesus

Really Said About Social Justice and Economics.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jerry Boyer.

And it's my honor and privilege to be here with you, Chris.

Great.

Well, we have a tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jerry, whenever we have a first -time guest, we

ask that guest to provide a summary of how they came to know Jesus Christ, what kind

of religious atmosphere, if any, they were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our

Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So if we could have your story.

My religious

environment

that

I

was brought

as an atheist,

believe in God, and I said, well, it's not inherited.

So he wasn't very...

I saw that atheism led to nobody can know anything, you can't even know that you don't

know.

And Van Til said, yes, so you have to believe God.

And there I've been

pointing...

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Thank you very much for that.

In fact, providentially, last week, you mentioned Cornelius Van Til.

We were giving away last week, every day, a copy of the book

Van Til's Apologetic by Greg L. Bonson, because we had a week -long

tribute to Greg Bonson.

And we were promoting a new ministry called the Bonson Project, where they are making

all of Greg's literature available for

free to the general public, and especially, and specifically, many of his

lectures and sermons that have been transcribed.

Some of them, I think, are still being transcribed into a written form.

Wow, where do I find that?

Actually, it's bonsonproject .com, B -A -H -N -S -E -N, project

.com.

And so that was all.

In fact, you can listen to the broadcast that we did all, every day last week, in tribute to Greg Bonson.

In fact, I'm going to read a commendation for your book, The

Maker vs. the Takers, what Jesus really said about social justice and economics.

I'm going to read a commendation by Greg's son, David, who I've had on this program as well.

David Bonson says, There are very few subjects that modern Christians get more

wrong than economics, and very few people more qualified to help them get it right

than Jerry Boyer.

The Maker vs. the Takers is all at once readable, logical,

exegetical, and most importantly, biblical.

Jerry's ability to help readers unpack all a text has to offer is extraordinary.

The impact a Jesus -centered economics will have on our society is profound.

That's quite a commendation from someone who is himself, not

only a Christian, but a chief investment officer for the Bonson Group, and a trustee at the

National Review.

Tell us about, first of all, what compelled you to write The Maker vs. the Takers.

I get the idea, even from David's commendation, that it has a lot to do

with the average Christian having a very abysmally poor and perhaps even

unbiblical concept of economics.

And I've been in Christian media most of my adult life, going back to the

80s I began working in Christian media, and I've had my own Christian talk show since 2005.

And the thing that I've seen firsthand in the Christian

realm, there seems to be two extreme errors, and of course you would know there's probably a lot of

flavors in between, but the two extreme errors that I see are

those on the one end of the spectrum, on the far left.

In fact, many of these folks have come out of the woodwork during the last presidential election, which is still undetermined,

who believe that if you really want to imitate Jesus, you should be a socialist or

something very close to that, and that Jesus abhorred rich

people that remain rich, who do not give nearly all that

they have until they themselves are just as poor as everyone else, it seems.

And then you have those who are involved in a heresy known as the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel,

who flaunt their pastors, who, in fact, one of them

that I remember seeing on television actually drove, I believe, a white

Rolls Royce onto the stage, and they flaunt their $5 ,000

suits and their $20 ,000, $30 ,000 Rolexes and their diamond rings, and they have

a gospel, which is no gospel at all, straight out of the pit of hell.

So you have these two extremes, and perhaps you could tell us where the maker versus the

taker comes in.

It doesn't come into that conversation because that's the church's conversation, and I didn't want to have the church's.

Amen.

My

best

wanted

to

know

what's

going on.

Jesus is talking about money and economics fairly,

and he said, well,

like I said, I've

done a

lot of research,

study

the

gospel, so I need to study.

Well, tell us, how on earth can we see, and how can we

see the economics in the gospels?

He

knew

where

he

was

and

knew who

he was talking to, and if we take that into account,

we see that he varied his,

and that we take that,

but if I'm, if you interview somebody and they wrote a novel, and in that

novel there's a,

and he meets somebody,

and then he

goes to the lobbyist, what

would be understood?

You don't know about their

point, and the main point is something, you

know, when it kind

of bursts.

So he says, well, it's

easier for a wealthy man to go, and it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than

for a wealthy man to enter heaven.

It doesn't say to enter heaven, but it's

for what, right?

And who was he talking to?

And the answer was, he had just gone into,.

Oh, I want to give our listeners our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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Obviously, you have probably encountered this, but there are Christians who are going to think

just by sheer virtue of us having this discussion that this is a very

unspiritual approach to the faith, that we should not be concerned with

these kinds of things that we really, you have all the way

from the theologically minded who might be even upset by

a conversation like this, who think that we are adding something to the gospel that's not there or you might

have those from the mushy -gushy modern evangelical world who just want us to

lift up the name of Jesus, not necessarily the biblical Jesus and hold

hands and sing kumbaya and get along with everybody and, of course, you

even have those of the aforementioned camp of Christians that

even though they might not call themselves socialists, they very often speak as though they are,

who almost look upon personal wealth as something evil, but

how do you respond to people who think that this is an unspiritual conversation we're having?

Well, I suppose,

but I'm going to talk about economics,

but that reaction, and there's different reactions, I think you've mentioned,

Galilee was a lower -tax economy

over wealth,

single confrontation when he traveled south and passed

Judea, and right off the bat, we get the

kind of all -in -social

proximity to the ruling class.

Well, we have to go to our first station break right now, and once again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

If you have a question, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com give us your first name at least,

your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, don't go away, we'll be right back with Jerry Boyer,

and more of The Maker vs. The Takers, what Jesus really said about social justice and economics,

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and my guest today, if you just tuned in, is Joey Boyer,

and we are discussing his new book, The Maker Versus the Takers, what Jesus really said about social justice and

economics in our email address, if you have a question of your own, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Joey, you hinted at this right before the break, but how does archaeology come into play in

this study that you have provided for us in writing on what Jesus really said about social justice

and economics?

The problem is,

and not a

whole lot,

or

maybe it's just

after

about 100 years after

the

passion

of Erasmus and Martin Luther and others,

repentance allowed us to go back

and reinterpret the Bible and reform our theology.

And about 100 years after that, we start to get Hebrew texts.

And then these people would say, oh, wait, our ideas about what's

going on in the Old Testament weren't quite right either.

They start to reform their political and economic institutions.

Information exegesis.

We have the

context of these gospel stories.

How

in

the world

could we—.

Okay, well, we have a listener in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New

York, Ronald, who asks, sorry if I missed this before, having just tuned in,

but what are some of the primary ways you believe your average, run -of -the -mill Christian, even those who

are in very biblically sound churches, are getting the subject of economics wrong?

And not getting the subject at all.

Economically aware.

Just the fact that I'm an economist, when I read the New Testament,

supposed to read the Bible,

much more aware of how Jesus is

economically aware and

more pious or non

-devotional or unspiritual.

Well, guess what, Ronald?

You have won a free copy of The Maker vs. the Takers, What Jesus Really Said About Social

Justice and Economics, by our guest, Jerry Boyer.

And we want to thank our friends at Fidelis Books and Post

Hill Press for providing us with these copies that we are giving

away today.

And also, we want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

who will be shipping out this book to you at no cost to you or to us.

So, thanks a lot, Ronald, for your question.

Now, one of the most controversial issue, issues, I

should say, that I have encountered in my life as a Christian, and one of the reasons I say that

is because it is something that has invaded my own theological

camp, probably even predominantly invaded Reformed

churches.

I happen to be a Reformed Baptist, and it has

invaded our circles as well.

It's probably more present in Presbyterian circles, but it is, nonetheless,

it seems a predominantly Reformed problem.

Not that this has anything to do with Reformed theology that has caused the problem.

In fact, I think it is actually something that militates against Reformed theology, but it is the

social justice movement.

And obviously, you are addressing this as well, since it's in the subtitle of your book.

If you could give us a summary definition of social justice and how you are approaching it with

the maker versus the takers.

Well, historically, the phrase social justice comes from conservative catholicism,

that this involves a society, not just individuals.

So the biblical idea of social justice is things in a society.

We talk about social justice,

we're pretty good at King.

All of the profit,

no he's not, he's just talking about

economics.

Yeah, that reminds me of what occurred in the 50s and 60s

with the civil rights movement.

You had conservative and fundamentalist churches all over the United States who were ignoring

the sin of racism and perhaps even supporting and promoting segregation, the

Jim Crow laws and all these kinds of things.

Or you had them just ignoring the topic because it shouldn't be involved in polite conversation to bring these

divisive and horrible things up.

So you had the liberals take control over this and

it's ironic, one of the leaders in the social justice movement right now

is Thabiti Anyabwile.

And nine years ago, I had him on this program and he was saying things that I think are the polar

opposite of what he's saying today.

But he has a book called The Decline of African American Theology and he

actually lays at the feet of not only

the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s,

but even at the feet of the abolitionist movement of

the 18th century when it became a secular movement as opposed to a Christian one

as to the blame for the fall and the decline and fall of

African American theology.

So it is somewhat interesting and I see that mirrored in what you were saying.

Yes, we retreat and then the kingdom of Satan

fill

our

Bible

and study

Jesus.

And I call that the left,

what I mean by red letter Christians.

Yes, those that think there's something innately superior about the specific words of Jesus, which many

Bibles have in a red ink and they seem to put the other God

-breathed words of scripture on a lower level of importance.

Right, and there's a specific group that is kind of on the socialist side, they call themselves red

letter Christians.

Oh, I didn't know that, okay.

Yeah, there's actually an organization called Red Letter Christians, which is like convergent churches and socialism.

Shane Claiborne is, I think, what, and Tony Campolo.

What they do is,

I'm not saying he is,

but to an eye of a needle, I'm of heaven, eh, it sounds a little

socialist, right?

That there is, like, there's a God sent away, the rich empty, what sounds a little,

and then a lot of the conservatives, they, like, reach for the dial and try to turn it down somehow, like, oh,

he's just talking about our attitude towards wealth, or he's just talking about what's going to happen after the second coming, or he's just,

you know, they try to, like, he doesn't really mean it,

talking about our hearts.

He's not just talking about our attitude, talking about political economy, and he's been,

well, he said, he said, have compassion for the poor, but

they were

politically connected, is you are devourers of widows' houses,

and he said to the money changers, who had a government -granted monopoly,

unfair exchange of political connections,

and he says, this is economically

engaged.

If you turn up full volume, though, what you see is that he is in a war, in a rhetorical war, with the

power state and their cronies.

Clearly, that's why they killed him, because he's about them.

Wow.

We're going to our midway break right now.

I'm going to ask you a question before the break, and then we'll have you answer it when we come back.

The question is spawned by something that Chuck Bentley, CEO of Crown

Financial Ministries, and founder of that organization, said in

his commendation of your book, and it spawned this thought, or this question in my head.

First of all, Chuck said, Jelly Boyers, the maker versus the takers, is a tour de

force.

The teachings of Jesus are clear, either have a big state and a small

God, or we can have a big God and a small state.

I want you to pick up on that and explain that a bit further, because a lot of that even has to do

with how we see our nation divided during this current election that we're still waiting

to hear an outcome on.

In fact, there are some never Trumpers who even think that Donald Trump is too much

of a big state individual, and he is not perhaps

libertarian enough for them, or lack of a better term.

But we'll have you respond to that big state, little God, and big God,

little state after we return.

This is a longer than normal break, folks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of

us a little longer break in the middle of the show, because they are required by the FCC

to localize Zion Sharp and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, with their own public service announcements and

other local announcements.

So while they do that, we actually simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So I'm asking you to do something for me.

Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you can, provided by as many of our advertisers as you can, so that

you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.

And that will help further ensure that we remain on the air, because our advertisers will remain happy,

and they'll continue advertising with us.

And we absolutely positively depend on the finances provided by our advertisers to

exist.

So please try to keep our advertisers happy.

Also write down questions for Jerry Boyer on what Jesus really said about

social justice and economics, and send them to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Jerry Boyer after these messages from our sponsors.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

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Before we return to Joey Boyer and our discussion of the maker versus the takers, what Jesus

really said about social justice and economics, I just have a couple of announcements to make.

Our friends at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and that wonderful

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Also folks, if you are not a member of a local biblically sound church,

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet earth and I have been able to help many people in our audience

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subject line.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com put I need a church in the subject line.

It's also the email address where you could send in a question to Jerry Boyer on his book The Maker Versus The

Takers What Jesus Really Said About Social Justice and Economics.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Jerry, you may remember before the break, I was asking you of how

a big state in a little Jesus or a little God versus a big

God in a small state features in or factors in to the maker versus the takers.

Well,

this

advice

to

extract

wealth from other people because that would be dishonest gain.

You ever hear the phrase crony capitalism?

That would be kind of an example of that.

Right.

All right.

So we also see are forbidden to accumulate

wives.

You

see

that

other

sovereign

entity

even when you become an atheist.

Okay, we do have an anonymous listener who

asks, How do I overcome greed when I

am very successful in my business?

I have been accused of being greed, although I have been generous if I do say so

myself.

And I don't think I'm bragging because I'm remaining anonymous.

But there is obviously a temptation in all of us, even the best of Christians,

perhaps to hoard too much wealth.

So what is your advice in that area?

And I think

then that place,

the Bible never said.

The other thing is, I find this very interesting.

I've noticed that in that if

you're in the marketplace,

presumption that and

that

every time that Jesus is dealing with greed issues in the Gospels, he's again, he's not talking.

I think he's greedy.

He might not be.

So I think we really need to change this a little bit.

Economic class will prove it innocent of

probably in the

guilty until proven innocent category when it comes to wealth and

entrepreneurs are not.

Entrepreneurs are like the rest of us.

So I've heard this from so many successful Christian entrepreneurs.

They feel under accusation about being greedy, even if they're generous,

because I think a lot of people misunderstand the biblical teaching about wealth in such a way as to

condemn being a highly productive condemns that

it condemns idolatry of money through

problem

solving and selling.

Well, excuse me.

Anonymous, you have also won the maker versus the takers.

What Jesus really said about social justice and economics.

Thanks to our friends at Fidelis Books and Post Hill Press.

And also thanks to our friends at CVBBS .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will be actually shipping that out to you at no cost to you or to

us.

So make sure we have your full mailing address and your full name.

Obviously, we're not going to disclose that information on the air.

So get that to us as soon as you can.

Going back to that question, because it is something that there may be

some wrong, wrongly directed guilt at oneself or even worse at other

people.

You know, there is a, I think, a sin

where perhaps somebody who is in a position of a pastor, and

especially when the congregation may be lower income, middle income,

struggling financially.

And this pastor is perhaps one of those health and wealth preachers who is flaunting wealth

and actually using his wealth as a badge of God's blessing and approval upon his life.

But, you know, you also have men, whether they're a pastor or not, being accused of

sinning.

In fact, you mentioned Tony Campolo earlier.

I remember years ago, him saying that if you own a Mercedes -Benz, you

are in deep sin.

And you've got to repent of that because that's just a flagrant, a

horrible, selfish, greedy way to spend money.

Now, obviously, if somebody wants to purchase a car that's going to last them a long time, that

perhaps is an investment they want to pass on to their children and make sure they're driving a safe vehicle, they might want to spend more on a car,

especially if they're not living above their means.

But, you know, address that issue.

Well, I mean, another way of saying it is drop dead auto workers.

Right, right.

You added car and people get paid a lot of money.

Now, you don't do that instead of a

society kind of car.

Well, America is a top...

That man told me his pastor

said that.

He owns an expensive car.

Reliability car.

It's part of my job is to go around and meet with people a lot.

And I want something that's not...

Someone who has created enough wealth,

professors, and then ties debt burdens around the necks of them,

you know, they...

A Mercedes -Benz for your dollar.

Well, you know, your book, as you know, is broken up into five parts.

If you could give us a summary, I know that you've already included some of this, but tell us about Jesus and

economic biography.

Well, it is that Jesus comes from an entrepreneurial culture and

that God gets

theologically complex because the son is the second person

by the right people in an

entrepreneurial...

And then again, we see the pattern over and over again of Jesus.

The sermon on the mount

and there he says, woe unto you who are rich.

How in the back...

I think another part of the biography is that economics is happening in his life all the time.

I think I mentioned to you that

economic exploitation, the Bible says that

Luke,

they had economic motives.

We don't want to lose our place destroying Jesus.

This is something that very few people know about, but the fact that the crucifixion is going on,

the financial collapse.

So anxiety levels are higher and Pontius Pilate, who was associated with the banking clans,

financial

anxiety and socioeconomic forces.

Now some people have a certain reaction to that like, oh no, this happened because God planned this before the foundation of the world.

And I said, there's no tension whatsoever between God planning this from the foundation of the world

that was accomplished so we don't have to blind ourselves to what's going on.

And finally, Jesus issues economic warnings to Israel, to Jerusalem in particular,

about economic exploitation.

And then what happens is an economic

boom and then a bust following the death

forgiveness laws and it ended up destroying Jerusalem and eventually is

connected with economic teaching.

Now, you have titled one section of your book

Jesus and the Rich Young Senator.

Explain why you titled it that way and tell us more about that.

In fact, there's a lot of confusion and disagreement in the body of Christ over that passage of

scripture and that actually in the minds of some of our more Marxist leaning

so -called Christian friends or professing Christian friends, they think that that gives them ammunition, that whole passage of

Jesus instructing the rich young ruler to basically get rid of everything that he

owns and follow Jesus.

But if you could.

I'm going to sort of bring him into harmony rather than going back and forth and saying, Luke says,

put that together.

Number one,

this is like talking to Bill Gates.

He's a rich young man.

No, it's not.

That phrase detail not

to be station about the Ten Commandments.

If you do not murder and then he adds one.

Did Jesus get the test?

Remember the tentative?

Why did he say, do not defraud?

It's already covered under do not steal.

Why did he say to this rich young ruler

repeating the technically not

through

Jerusalem?

Again, it's all centered in Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who are

kind of sucking up to the rich.

Do not rich men defraud you.

Same Greek word.

Isn't that fascinating?

Ruling class to be.

Oh, we don't see that.

Just sharpen the stick at this guy.

You are defrauding people.

Then Jesus says, it's harder for it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the

kingdom of heaven.

So

this

inhedron members were

engaging in economically explore myth

that Jesus is not talking about Microsoft.

He never said any of this to Joseph of Arimathea, his friend who's a tin merchant, who's making an honest living.

He never said that any of the investors up there in Sepphoris.

He says it to a man of the state that lives by.

OK, we do have another listener question.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says, I'm sorry if I

missed this, but I did have trouble logging into the live program.

I don't know if there's something wrong with my computer, but I just got through.

I was wondering if you have covered Acts 2 45, which seems to be the go to passage

of your more socialist professing Christian, where they

began selling their property and possessions, speaking of the disciples, and we're sharing them

with all as anyone might have need.

Yes, the sort of

problem is

that

people have heard those arguments.

And then we say, well, Peter says it's voluntary and it's not the state.

But let me add, again,

other

movement

in the other groups

literature.

Well, Harrison, you have also won a free copy of The Maker versus The Takers.

So please make sure we have your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, so that

CVBBS .com can ship that out to you.

And once again, we want to thank our dear friends at Fidelis Books and Post Hill Press

for providing us with these giveaway copies.

We're going to our final break right now.

It's going to be a lot more brief than the last breaks.

So if you have a question, that you want to ask, please send it in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of

time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence in your country or residence.

If you live outside the USA, that's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Jerry Boyer after these messages.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

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Mr. Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

And Jerry, if you could, before we go to any listener questions, as our time runs out, I want you

to have a few minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our

listeners regarding this topic today.

If we said, you know what?

And it comes from a world where some people can use the power of accusation to make themselves.

Great, thank you.

And we do have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who

says, Can you please define the difference between those who are

heretics who say that if you are obedient to God, you will certainly achieve wealth

and the proverbial counsel that we find in the Old and New Testaments about

how we can preserve an income and not become poor by the way we live,

which are not obviously always 100 guarantees because things could come upon us in this life

unexpectedly through no fault of our own, other than the fact that we are in a sin -cursed world that would

leave us, at least for a time, impoverished.

That's a great question.

Susan Margaret, it seems to be one name.

That's important.

So I would say there is the health and wealth gospel, and then, which is heresy, and

then there is

a side effect.

Defamation, we saw people change their lives,

working hard and all these things.

And what happens with sort of the Calvinists in the Netherlands is almost they're like the ones

in the world.

Our prosperity presentations I do is

2 ,000 years of global economic history.

And I go through GDP data over the past.

You can see that we're not

talking

about

proverb

is reasonably just,

be more prosperous.

Of course, if you live a righteous life and you're a very unrighteous society, like Jesus lived in a wicked and adulterous

generation, and he lived a perfect life, and they murdered him.

So, and Job was a perfect and upright man, God's sovereign, right?

So these aren't promises, but there is a probability

is much higher that you would.

Well, I want to thank you so much, Jerry, for being such a superb guest.

And I definitely want to have you back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the near future.

In fact, multiple times, you've been just wonderful and very informative.

I want to make sure that our listeners have the website of Post Hill Press in case they want to

further explore this book, posthillpress .com, posthillpress .com.

And keep in mind, folks, if you want to purchase this book, we ask that you order it from cvbbs .com since they are a

sponsor, and nobody's going to lose out that way because cvbbs .com is to purchase it from Post Hill

Press.

So we thank you.

And Jerry, do you have any contact information of your own that you'd like to provide?

Well, I'm easy to find on social media.

Yes.

Wow, thank you.

You've made my day.

I needed to be cheered up today looking at these election results.

But I want to thank you so much for being our guest again.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

Amen.