June 1, 2020 Show with Ron McKinney on “The Progression of Various Sovereign Grace Baptist Movements of the 20th Century”

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County Pennsylvania, Lake City Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this first day of June 2020 and I'm very excited to have a person that I've known about for many years and just recently interviewed him for the first time and I have him back for his second and third interview two days in a row he's going to be on the program today and tomorrow and I'm speaking of Ron McKinney pastor of Kinsey Drive Baptist Church in Dalton Georgia and we are going to be addressing on today's program the progression of various Sovereign Grace Baptist movements of the 20th century and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor Ron McKinney.

Thank you sir I thank you very much I'm happy to be with you today and I look forward to talking about this subject that you've mentioned of God's grace and how he has used men in his plan and purpose to spread the gospel and to we've had a rediscovery

Chris of the gospel of Jesus Christ I don't mean that there hasn't been gospel before because we know there has been but there have been periods of time when gospel has been submerged and has been looked at as being something not true and we've had false gospel that has come and it reminds me so much of what

I read up in Galatians about the fact that they're preaching another

Jesus not the one that is of scripture but they're preaching their own kind of Jesus and today you can turn on the television you can listen on the radio you can go various places and all you'll hear is a man -centered type of gospel and so what we're happy to know is that God in his grace around the 1950

I think would be a point that we could look at at least I understand when there seemed to be a rediscovery of the gospel and when

I say that I mean people would say well no there's always been the gospel yes

Jesus Christ and him crucified but the gospel has to do with how you preach it and how you teach it and you preach it with all of the scripture and you have to have a fundamental beginning point you have to teach what man is and who

God is and you must be specific you can't have generality we don't have just any kind of God we have an almighty infinite eternal

God who is ruling and reigning and everything that happens in this world so this is a great subject for us to look at today

I think it would be something that anyone who has any interest in the

Bible as any interested in the things of God should be careful about what they preach and teach as far as the gospel is concerned

I tell you what I have a great burden and yet it's not a burden that I don't want to bear but I have a burden because I have a responsibility to preach this gospel clearly and faithfully and to all men

I have no question about preaching to all men and yet I want to hear and see that those that are quickened by the

Holy Spirit will respond and they will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ I just I just thank

God for this day and time that we've had the refreshing work of the spirit and to bring back the gospel in its clarity and in its fullness so there's where I begin brother amen well you got me riled up and basically before you go into the heart of the program as we always do

I'd like you to tell our listeners something about Kinsey Drive Baptist Church where you serve as a pastor in Dalton Georgia yes sir

I have been here this August I will have finished my 30th year in Dalton Georgia I came from Dallas Texas where I was pastoring there at Reform Baptist Church called the

Reform Baptist Church of Dallas and I came here in 1990 I is interesting thing about my even coming here

I knew of the church for a good while because a friend of mine Gary Scott had been the pastor here and I was familiar with it but I had never actually been to Dalton so what happened was is that he left and he took a church in New York and so they called me and they invited me to come to Dalton if I may

I'll just tell you a little bit about my experience is that all right no definitely go ahead all right well

I came over on a on a Friday I flew in Saturday morning

I had breakfast with about 12 of the people I guess you would call the pulpit committee and we sat around the round table at the local

Cracker Barrel and we began to talk and discuss things and they were people that some that were older some that were younger some that were middle -aged it was just different groups of men and women and I just immediately there was something about it and I fell in love with the people

I just I just enjoyed my time with him and we had breakfast and we had times of talking and then afterwards the men that I say the men most of them were deacons in the church one of them was

I'm trying difficult Dave Williams was one of them and the head of the deacons was

Caldwell Herman Caldwell and then there was Ronnie Boyd and there were just several others and we rode around Dalton to see the city and they took me to the

Arts Guild I'm telling this because it has something to do with my coming and I have an interest in art

I've painted and drawn for a number of years and I've taught art but what

I did was I went to the guild and they had a show that was there by Ed Kellogg who was a personal friend of mine from Covenant College and he had a display and I was so amazed at that display that they had there and that it was somebody that I knew and then they took me around to see all of the plants in Dalton Georgia you know this is the capital this is the capital of the carpet industry and making of carpet it started here in the late 50s or late 40s and the carpet mills they're just huge carpet mills here and we have in Dalton we have the companies that are the largest you have

Shaw industry that has about 30 % of all of the world's carpet now

I'm not talking about United States about the world and then there's Mohawk and then there's all these other companies and there really are what

I've been told previously there's like 300 different outlets for purchasing carpet there's 200 mills and plants that are here they're all over this area and so there's a lot of money that is in this small city and that doesn't bring a lot of spirituality

I will tell you for sure because it was reported that Dalton was the number one place for divorce which is kind of interesting because there was a lot of money but what happened is is that we went around and I spent the day with it and then they sent me home on Saturday evening they didn't have me preach

I didn't have a meeting with the deacons and they were interested but they didn't offer me anything to come and so after that I came back the next week with my family and then they asked me to preach we had a dinner and I just I fell in love with the people and that was all that matters and I said to my daughter when we were going home after the second visit

I said honey what would you think if we went to to Dalton and she says well daddy she was about 12 years old she said

I I think I would have a lot more time with my daddy and that just kind of sealed it for me oh that's nice so we came home over here and we loaded up and man we drove all night because the air -conditioning on our car that we had a van had gone out we just drove right straight through and you know the

Lord just blessed that trip I can remember it in the middle of the night three or four in the morning listening to moody radio and there was playing some music and everything and I was singing in my heart and actually was singing out loud the others were sleeping but I just the glory of the

Lord was just before me and so we we arrived that morning about oh

I guess eight o 'clock seven or eight o 'clock in the morning and guess what I had nine people there at the

Parsonage and they that's the truck and they unloaded the truck and they sent me and my family to a hotel to get rest and they unloaded the whole truck for us and they had previously painted the interior of the house

I mean these people showed such love you know what and they loved the truth of the gospel they were taught well they had a great teacher and Gary Scott and so they loved the word and so we came in and immediately we had family we had people that we loved and they just embraced us and my kids enjoyed being in this place we have about 12 acres here and we're in kind of a

I would say the southern end of the town and it's not very crowded and the children could ride their bicycles without having an doubt always say we came from Big D Dallas the little

D Dalton but I love the city and I've fallen in love with the people here at Kinsey Drive well praise

God for that I'm I'm very easily convinced that the people fell in love with you that's for sure and if anybody wants to look up more information about Kinsey Drive Baptist Church in Dalton Georgia just go to Kinsey Drive Baptist Church comm

Kinsey Drive Baptist Church comm and hopefully we'll remember to repeat that we have some publications called the sword and the trial

Lord and the trials that are online on that website

Chris and these these magazines will give you some history of it one of them is on our anniversary and has a lot about the history of the church the church began in 1974 they were part of a another church called

South Dalton and a man by the name I'm trying to remember his name

I know it but it's I'm trying to remember it so it's hard for me his name is

Robert Mount that's what his name is Robert Mount who was there and he began to teach what we called the doctrines of grace and I know that he had a couple of men came in one was

Henry Mahan from Kentucky came in and preached for him but the people that were there in that church there were those that received it and those that didn't so at a particular time there were a number of people that left

I think it was something like 175 or 80 people who left on a

Sunday and they began a new church and there was property that was available here in Kinsey Drive that at a previous church that had folded and was not in existence so they were able to come in and purchase the property it was already made so that was the founding of the church with Robert Mount and he stayed for a year or so and they even had the influence of starting a school when

Gary Scott Scott was pastor and very effective Christian school and one of the things that's happened to us here is that Kinsey Drive has been the the base

I would say are the foundation for a number of organizations in our community one is

Christian Heritage School began here at Kinsey Drive Baptist Church I say that because if it had not been for the people of Kinsey Drive allowing the school to begin here and allowing them to have the facilities that they had

Christian Heritage School would not exist and let me tell you what Christian Heritage School is today it's located on a hundred and seventy five acres on the east side of Dalton it has a value of 60 million dollars debt -free it's the only

Christian school that I know of that is debt -free we have a wonderful fine school that is

Christian oriented it gives a Christian world and life view and so what

I'm saying by that this was the very birthplace of that and the church charged they charged the school two hundred and fifty dollars a month for the first ten years and they had use of all of our facility now

I was a part of that and I enjoyed it I served on the board of directors I served in a number of other areas but my what an amazing thing these people provided not only the place but they had all of the desk and all the other things that were necessary so there is there we have a school here is that is looked at with amazement because it is debt -free you just don't hear about that we bought we had a campaign and raised thirty million dollars in one campaign within five years and built a brand new high school debt -free on property that was given to us across the road a hundred and four acres by a family who previously had been in the school yeah that's what we what this happened

I always say you cannot despise the day of small thing

I'm talking about you know when you start out with something I remember Christian heritage school here we were we were so small we struggled we struggled to pay the teachers and they weren't making more than about twelve thousand dollars a year

I mean it was difficult but what happened was it God blessed and when

God blesses something it will it will grow and it will mature and it's like a

Hudson Taylor said God's work is done in God's way will not lack God's supply it will not lack

God's God will provide what we need I want to tell you one other thing Chris that is amazing to me is that I had a couple who moved here from the

Washington DC area actually they were living in Montgomery County up there Maryland and they were musicians they had been in a church there brother

Fleming was a pastor at one time and and they know brother Ed Fleming who was a pastor friend of mine but they moved here to retire and he was an orchestra director taught violin viola the cello all the string instruments he can teach all the others as well he was a musician and his wife was a musician as well she could write for orchestration she they both had masters from Duquesne University in Pittsburgh just lovely people but more than anything these people had a love for the gospel for the truth and they moved down here they live about 40 minutes away from our church but they came to visit when they heard the gospel they said this is where we want to go so I had lunch with him and that week with my wife and he said what do you do he said well we were teachers and we're retired teachers and I said really and so what did you teach well we taught music well

I had four children growing up and I had them in the school and I was thinking my it sure would be nice to have some of them playing instruments or doing something and I said would you be willing to teach them and they said yes now

I want to tell you this is an amazing story these two people are people that I regard with the highest respect they love truth more than anything they're retired they've been one of the greatest supporters of the church for 30 years they never missed a service or anything they just now

I've had to keep from coming because of their health but my they were a part of it and what they did is they started teaching these kids these children and then and what happened was that we get 18 to 20 maybe 25 before long we had a little orchestra and that was 27 years ago and today we have a full -fledged 60 piece symphonic orchestra and it is it plays music that is just unbelievably beautiful and they they perform and whenever they perform they have about 1 ,100 people come 1 ,000 to 1 ,200 people come every time and they have several performance every year that started called

LaBrie LaBrie symphonic orchestra and of course what

I did I gave it that name because of Francis Schaeffer yes sir he had an effect upon my life in such an amazing way because he had an interest in the arts and I was artistic and I loved music

I loved art and so it just drew me to his philosophy of you know being involved and so here we have every every several months we will have a concert of the

LaBrie orchestra what I started here along with Christianity School is

I had what's called the LaBrie Academy of Fine Arts and we taught music we taught art

I taught about 65 students a week in the arts and then we had other things that were involved as far as the arts were concerned so there were two schools at the same time but not competing with each other but really complementing each other and then another thing that happened is a friend of mine

Chuck Harris who is the pastor down in in Columbia Columbus Georgia was he at one time involved with the

Christian athletic organization I saw him preach once in Bayside Queens at North Shore Baptist Church.

Okay and who was the pastor there at that time? Ed Moore and he's still the pastor. Ed Moore that's right and his son

Justin or something I've just I met him about a year so Parker anyway or Charlie yeah yes but Ed Moore's good friend of Chuck what

Chuck believed in great but he was appointed to be the director in the state of Georgia for the fellowship of Christian athletes so when he became director he asked me since he knew me if I would be on his board of directors he had what he called a board of directors that was right under him and then there was another board of directors but but he asked me to be a part of that which

I I would have never done it had it not been for Chuck because some of the things that happened through that FDA is not all together what

I agree with but it was Chuck and I knew that he was gonna in fact in fact

Chuck preaches so loud that he makes Al Martin sound like Truman Capote yeah and we're still see each other and what

I what I was going to say about it is that in this in this we started the

FDA and actually some of the meetings were held right here at our church

I'm telling you this not to say our churches anything it's just that God used small things at the beginning and I used to have them come and we with me and and we would talk about what we're going to do and it started actually with another man who was a coach in the area and I with him and in 1992 and we started and we did not have one huddle group in any one of the schools here in Dalton or in the surrounding area not one a huddle group is is people that come together like teachers and principals and things that helped run

FDA for a school not one today there are 68 schools who have huddle groups and that means there's at least at least a dozen or more and times many more and only any given week from this comes from the head man that I've been talking to even recently is that there are there are those that meet there's something like 2700 kids teenagers that meet on mornings or FCA in 68 different schools

God has worked now I know that Chuck preaches the gospel and I supported him because of that and God did a marvelous thing and blessing the

FDA it has been amazing to me to see what's taking place and that's all from a little small meeting that we had

I can even name the men that were there the men that were there was Pete Wilson senior and there was a man let's see who's it trying to remember it forgive me for my memory but there was there's several

Chuck there was Chuck not Chuck Harris but another Chuck that was there anyway these guys came together and we just we just prayed and asked

God to do something and now their budget is over a million dollars every year

I just I just I'm amazed you know again we go back small thing you never know what

God's going to do with and and I would say this I haven't mentioned this at all but you know for a number of years about 13 years

I was editor of the sword and trial magazine and that was from the

I was with it from 1974 to 1986 or 7 it was and it was started by John Riesinger and he obviously named it after Spurgeon's magazine oh yeah it was named what a name though I mean it is taken from the

MIA of course there and I loved the theme that was that was there and anyway the what we were doing is we were publishing monthly this magazine that we would send out to people and it started off in fact

John started with about 500 people that he knew that's who he gave it to and in the magazine would be a sermon by Charles Spurgeon there would be something that John would write there'd be something that somebody else and and before that it wasn't anything it wasn't a masterful magazine but you know what people who got it seemed to love it because it begged began to grow

I saw it grow from when they we started in 1974 he brought it down to Clinton Mississippi where we're real close to reform theological seminary that's where I went to seminary and I graduated and so because I was down there he felt this would be the thing to do and we set up a place

I had a building there that we housed the sword in the trial we started to do some television and some radio ministry and John and I worked together and he was the executive editor and what happened was is that this this magazine began to grow because people were coming to believe in the grace of God over depravity unconditional election limited or particular atonement the effectual calling and then the perseverance of the faith all of those things were beginning to become important to people and so we get in this name well we didn't always charge people we just sent it out we we did it just free of charge almost whatever we could get in for money we were just sending out more and more literature we published some books but one of the things that happened is that when

I moved to Dallas Texas and that would have been trying to remember now

I was 70 it's 77 I moved to Dallas Texas and we started publishing the sword and trial from there and I began to get a mailing list of others for instance

Ernie Riesinger you know I'm talking about yes you founded the church where I'm a member right now

Ernie and I he came and stayed at our house for probably a week or more we had a great time

I got movies eight millimeter movies of him playing with my my oldest daughter she was about two or three at the time she's now 41 but I mean we had such a fellowship and love and we went to Southwestern Seminary now

Southwestern at it was it was started by DH Carroll you know that and it was it was founded upon the grace of God the doctrines of grace and it was something that just permeated that school at one time but then things changed and no longer with that interested but people interested in it but what

I'm going to say is Ernie and I went there together and we sat down with one of the directors it wasn't the president but one of the directors and we asked him we said would you give to us the mailing list of all of your graduates and Ernie was going to mail to them the book by James Pettigrew Boyce on the abstract theology now

I want you to know that book is full of great it's full of great

James and so was James Pettigrew Boyce that that's the school up there where where Al Mohler is they have a yes boy yes what

I said was he was he was full of grace as well as what I said yes oh

I see okay well Boyce was was the one that really started the Southern Baptist Convention as far as I know but I always tell people

I'm more Southern Baptist Convention than most people who say they are because I believe in the doctrine that they taught back back in that day but what

I was going to say is that we got the we got these addresses and he and I I sent them the sword of the trial a subscription and it was free of charge they would get the sword trial and then they got this book by James Pettigrew Boyce and God is used that brother he is you

I think I think Ernie must have sent out thousands and thousands of those books the reason

I know it is one of the men that was on his board his board was his name is

Bates Dan Bates he was a deacon in the church at North Pompano Beach Baptist Church it was a

Southern Baptist Convention Church and he was a deacon there and he came to understand the grace of God and so he was a part of that when they got all these books in they had it mailed it out to these these young men and so Dan was a part of that he said he used to go in and they would wrap and mail these

James Pettigrew books now let me tell you one little thing that I've been told and I take it as truth is that in North Pompano Beach there was there was one person who who got one of these books now he was the elder of Moeller it was it was

Al Albert Moeller's father got one of those books by Boyce he lived in North Pompano Beach and he passed it on to his son who is junior now you know who

Al Moeller is yes Moeller junior yes he's president of the

Southern Seminary and he read that book before he even got to college at Stanford and then later going to Southern Seminary and all the that his studies were but he was exposed to the doctrines of grace through James Pettigrew Wow we have to get yes it is and we have we have to go to our first break right now and I want you to pick up I want you to pick up right where you left off when we return if anybody if anybody wants to send in the question our emails

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USA don't go away we'll be right back with Ron McKinney after these messages James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know

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Chris Arnzen and our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

Ron McKinney pastor of Kinsey Drive Baptist Church in Dalton Georgia and we are discussing the progression of various Sovereign Grace Baptist movements of the 20th century this is day one of our two -day interview tomorrow on June the 2nd we'll be discussing something that will be announced as far as the topic is concerned so where you left off basically was that Al Mohler was the recipient of that book by J.

Pettigrew Boyce the great the very very famous Calvinistic Baptist of the 19th century that actually was a part of the formation of the

Southern Baptist Convention yes and that's where we left off yes let me go go and kind of give you some of the people that that I felt had such an influence in those those early days and I'm talking about would be the 60s and the 70s

I had the experience of going to Bellhaven College on a basketball scholarship

I was from Lake Charles Louisiana I played basketball and they gave me a scholarship to go there

I knew nothing about it I certainly didn't know anything of what they were teaching there as far as the

Bible was concerned I didn't know that it had connections with Presbyterians but at that time

Bellhaven was what I would consider it to be very conservative conservative in terms of scripture the holding to the infallibility of scripture that all scriptures inspired by God is profitable for doctrine reproof correction and instruction and righteousness

Morton Smith who was 17 years the head of the

PCA Church what I mean is he was the stated clerk 17 the first 17 years

Morton Smith he was my Old Testament my Bible teacher Old Testament OTBT we called it and he would talk about predestination

I was 17 years old I was kind of young when I went to school but I sat there and he what he was saying made such sense to me for instance he would talk about in the fact that the

Bible spread throughout the world the reason being because of the

Roman Empire and because of the fact that there was one language Koine Greek and they could then go into other parts of the then known world and they could spread the gospel well you know he said that was

God's providence that's the way God planned it and executed it and I thought to myself that makes sense that makes sense that everything's working together and so as I began to understand more and more of the sovereignty of God and he was in control and I think

I told you last time that I got a hold of that book by Lorraine Fetner I took it home my dad read it and then

I read it but it was on the reform doctrine of predestination well

I'd always heard predestination and it was kind of a scary thing you know you kind of fall down and you brush yourself off and say well

I'm glad that's over you know that kind of thing it was just you know

I didn't want to talk about predestination it's scary you know I'm I'm not I don't have anything to do with but then

I began to see that predestination God that beforehand has planned the word predestination comes from proho rezo and pro means the beginning or the first the new at first in other words there was something that that the horizon with the other word that you speak beforehand the horizon you know what is going to happen because it's already been planned

I got now that frightened me when I was young I was afraid of that word we wouldn't even mention the word but now all of a sudden it had a warrant to me what

I mean is I began to think you know everything God's working in me and he's working it for my good not not he's not trying to punish me

I used to have a terrible time because of my upbringing in terms of sanctification

I wanted to run and hide I just I knew that I wasn't what I should be and I wasn't what

I ought to be but thank God I'm not what I used to be kind of the way

I felt about it I just I'm thankful that God showed me the truth that he is working his plan in me and through me and that I am

I'm not just a puppet no there there are the secondary means that we have to work out you know you know you stand in front of a train get hit you're going to be killed but you know if God's working his will

I say if you do that you were ordained to be stupid and you prove to make your calling but you know

I had Morton Smith and then there were others there that Norman what was his last name he was the

New Testament teacher he was such a sweet kind man and he taught the scriptures it was special I just you know

I had some great teaching there then I was exposed in seminary with some of these men there was

Jack Scott there was a number of others that that I had that were just really excellent teachers and then

I was exposed in the summer one summer we went down to Pensacola Florida they used to have a conference there the

McClellan Church there would have a big it was a reformed kind of conference they had

David Martin Lloyd -Jones they had just all of the fine speakers and then they had how

Martin one year and I went down there that year my dad my mother in fact the whole family we went down to Pensacola for that conference and I heard our

Martin preached from the parable of the sword in fact we're gonna have to pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our midway break okay if anybody would like to join us our email address is

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and folks don't forget that this is a longer than normal break please be patient with us this is because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they have to air their own public service announcements to localize this show to Lake City Florida while we air our globally heard commercials so try to remember to write down as much as the information from our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them so that they stick around longer and remain our advertisers so that we can stick around longer because we require their funding to exist but also write questions for our guests today

Ron McKinney Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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God's goodness and mercy kindness and the beauty in what God has designed and he has erupted into praise in any crisis or problem brothers and sisters our only fallback position is to trust

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I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love hope reform

Baptist Church in Coram Long Island New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell it's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at hope reform

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Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

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Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always welcome back this is

Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the first for the full two hours with about an hour to go is

Ron McKinney pastor of Kinsey Drive Baptist Church in Dalton Georgia he's going to be with us today and tomorrow and our topic today is the progression of various Sovereign Grace Baptist movements of the 20th century before we return to that discussion we just have some important announcements to make first of all this

Friday is part three of our debate on a hyper or full preterism.

Full preterism as you may or may not know is the belief that everything that has been prophesied in the

Bible has occurred before AD 70 and specifically that everything in the

New Testament that has been prophesied has occurred on AD 70 and the premier apologist that defends that view is debating

Sam Frost who formerly believed that before adopting an orthodox belief in eschatology.

We had the two -day debate already last Thursday and Friday and we had so many questions come in by email that we're having a third day for the debate primarily the vast majority of which will be used specifically for audience questions so mark your calendars for this

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and if you are not a member of a bible -believing church you can get help from me god willing i have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and i have helped many people in the iron sharpens iron radio audience find churches in all parts of the world that they have either joined themselves or that they have referred to loved ones who didn't know of a biblically sound church near them or at times they visit these churches while they're on vacation but whatever the reason is you need a church send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com and put i need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you could send in a question to our guest ron mckinney pastor of the kinsey drive baptist church in dolton georgia that's chris a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and pastor ron you may recall that before the break you were telling our listeners on how you went to a bible conference that featured al martin who was going to be speaking on the parable of the the soils and uh what what what year was that i think it was 1972 and i i can't be uh specific more than that at this point i could find out but uh i was still in in seminary and it was it was near the time that my dad had left the church he was pastoring and started a new church and that started in 1970 so it probably was about 1972 that summer and uh robert strong was also there and there was kind of a uh at that meeting which was a very large gathering at that point uh in as far as conferences concerned and uh but uh al martin was preaching in the morning and he was preaching on the four different soils well that will wake you up if al martin's preaching in the morning oh let me tell you some of these people have never heard preaching like that before some of them didn't know what preaching really was but i mean he had he had and i must say uh he he had an umption that i would say god was definitely with him and and in the morning when they met in that that building they were hanging from the rafters that place was so full they couldn't get everybody in there i mean it was just amazing but he was dealing with the very issue of you know that people profess with their lips but their hearts are far from him you know they don't they're not committed to being a believer and and loving him with all their heart mind soul and strength in other words it was it was dealing with easy believism and of course he dealt with those soils as being the trivial some that here and they here for a while or they they they seem to believe but then they they forsake it you know another one where the the the thistles come up and choke it and then he he was saying but i said you know these that live their life and they become choked by the cares of life he says that's not true salvation and it it was amazing what he what he was teaching because it really hadn't been i don't think heard like that before and i tell you it was it was a glorious time for me uh and and then i al martin came to speak at uh at reform theological seminary that was about the same time it was it was right after that that he came to the seminary and he was there with john uh oh hirsch i'm trying to remember uh he was the the one that r .c.

sproles uh teacher uh oh john gershner gershner gershner i cannot think of it at the moment i'm just saying they they were speaking at the same time and then later on at reform center they had uh dick dewitt do you remember dick dewitt oh yes john yes he was expelled from the rca reform church of america because he would not yes financially support their liberal colleges and seminaries yeah uh he he was a personal friend and i say i i was a friend i spent some time with him uh he preached for my father down in louisiana and we rode back together to the seminary and he spoke at the seminary he he was a fine fine preacher how yes he just but there are so many people that i'd just love to to mention just how they had influenced not only what was happening uh but it was influencing my life for sure uh of course john reese here was the man that had the greatest influence on me uh he was a man that when i came to grace when i came to understand sovereign grace i left the church with 35 000 members and i was head of all the department there and i i was you know i had i had a place of ease as far as ministry was concerned could stayed there but when i heard the gospel it drew my heart to the point that i had to leave i i could not keep it to myself and uh but i heard john preach on election and i can almost preach that sermon right now because it was it was so wonderful because it it was he presented it in such a a powerful way but it had simplistic he used illustrations that you could understand but he made it so sweet and precious and i tell you what i just sat there and wept i just i was so amazed that god would choose me that he would do that that was his will and purpose man out of all the billions and billions of people that even that he would have any knowledge of me you know just kind of overwhelmed i remember going out of course i was i was young i went out to a football field and i was kicking the ball and i was just enjoying myself by myself and it became evening and the darkness came in and then it came out some stars and i remember as i looked up there and i said i cannot believe that god loved me even before he made those stars he knew me and he set his affection on me that he would call me and draw me and redeem me by his own son that i was one of those that was written in the lamb's book of life boy i tell you what brother i just i fell on my knees and i worshiped god because he was my god he had done this for me and i tell you that was one of the most wonderful experiences that i had because as i learned more and more about grace as i learned about god's imputated goodness of his imputation as far as his righteousness is concerned that it was not my my feeble attempts at being good and righteous that meant anything at all not at all it was that jesus had done it all for me and that he gave it to me as a gift he gave him and i'm covered by the the perfect righteousness of christ alone that i'm going to be able to stand before god not because i'm a good man or i had a good father i had a good family or i did good things i'm going to be there before the father because jesus is my elder brother and he took my place and he died in my stead and then he gave me his perfection brother that's something that you can't ever get away from that's god's truth well we have a listener who has a question for you brother all right and it gives me joy to know that after so many years of you being saved that you still weep over these precious things oh my but we have andrew in dalton georgia pastor ron what a joy it is to listen to you on today's program i love hearing these stories recounted and your insights on them if you haven't already done so as i began listening late can you please share the story of the story regarding the formation of kinsey drive baptist church you already did that i believe but if there's anything you want to add to that well i will say this that in the beginning of course it was it was a difficult thing because there was a parting of ways with some people and uh but there wasn't any ugliness that i know of and i do know that there was love that was shown towards them and uh the the ones that they left but the early days of the church here kinsey drive was was vibrant and alive i'm talking about the fact that the men that were deacons there for the most part were were godly men and they were they were they started a school under carrie scott and uh there were there were many things that that took place that i would say uh with with god honoring uh they have a reputation i'm saying the church has a reputation in town we're kind of known as uh those that believe in predestination i remember i had a young pastor came into the city and he was going to pastor another church here and he said the deacons were taking him around and they came by our church and they pointed to it and they said now those people are predestinarian and all of a sudden that's what they they were calling us but you know i have had fellowship with a lot of people here in this city uh i was on television for 29 years i'm i know that people have seen and known and they know what i believe and uh i've loved some of these other brethren uh some of them i've differed with them and you know there have been times but for the most part it's been a loving relationship and i believe that our testimony here is one that we exalt christ christ is exalted we exalt the scriptures the scriptures is first and foremost and uh the early days when uh as i mentioned uh robert mount when he was here he is a great bible teacher he was an excellent teacher in fact he ended up teaching some at reform theological seminary but then uh the band that came back came here gary scott was a excellent excellent theologian and preacher and he also became the uh the headmaster of the school they had a kentucky drive a christian academy that was here and uh gary scott was the one who led that and did a marvelous job i always said i had the easiest situation at all i came in on the the the the uh they what gary had done and uh had he had plowed the field and here i came in this to be able to sow what was taking place i mean gary was just a blessing to all these people it's still very dear well i hope that he's listening today he's also a dear friend of mine and yeah and i hope he's listening because you've been erupting with a volcano of very dear compliments for him from very often yes sir yes sir he he's he's a man that i have great i esteem him greater than myself i do love him and i appreciate him you know let me just mention a couple of other men that that probably are unknown that that were a part of against the founding uh a man by the name of steve carpenter uh who was uh who's from missouri kansas city missouri uh he was a great he went to dallas theological seminary well educated in fact he was just he's one of the brightest that i think had come out of there he and sam storms and uh but uh i i think about him steve he he is he struggled at times but for what a what a blessing he was because he was such a great teacher such a great you remember rob bob barnhart bob barnhart you remember him uh no his name barnhart he was uh he was a good friend of john reissinger's he pastored up in paradise pennsylvania charles barnhart that's what his name is charles barnhart you bound to have heard of him he was up in that area for a long time uh he served on our board of directors of the sword and trial and uh just dear man he's gone to be with the lord uh i had another man that i was thinking of that uh not very many people would know his richard ali he was a dear brother who died 40 with cancer but he was so diligent in those early days of preaching the gospel uh drew garner are you familiar with drew garner he was in houston yes i am familiar with drew drew you know he pastored a church in uh in tennessee uh and uh what happened was it was a large large southern baptist church i don't know if you've heard this story or not but uh he had someone came to the church and he got the name and address and went by to visit him he said that the good southern baptist pastor will do and he said the man invited him in and uh he uh wanted to take him into his library and this man had this huge library and of course drew was kind of stunned by this he was a young pastor and so the man gave him a book he gave him aw pink's book on the sovereignty of god and he went home and uh he didn't read it but he put it down and his wife francis picked it up and she read it and he came home the next day she was sitting in the chair and she was weeping and he said francis what's what's going on what what's wrong oh she said drew you've got to read this book oh this is amazing this is amazing how great god is and so he read the book and of course it changed his theology and so he began to preach and again having a large congregation southern baptist it was it was a large one and he said i began to preach on the first thing i thought was total depravity he said i had 14 messages that i planned to preach he said i preached the first message and that sunday night well it was monday morning at one o 'clock in the morning he had 14 deacons came to his house knocked on the door and fired him in his pajamas because he was preaching on total depravity i mean of all things you know that they would reject that man is completely helpless and hopeless without god but i mean drew was a good friend and i've got here on my screen da carson he's been a dear brother um yes i've seen him preach a number of times and he's been on the show at least uh at least once have you ever heard of opalmer robertson yes he was the presbytery yes yes which school with him are kind of he was he finished the year before i got to bell haven but i got to know him and he we became very good friends uh greg bonson he was a friend of mine you're familiar with greg oh yeah i had the privilege of yes i had the privilege of meeting him in brooklyn new york when he was preaching at messiah's congregation in the early 1990s and pastor steve schlissel said to me i know one day you're going to be a talk show host so i want you to interview greg bonson in my study after the worship service today so i had the privilege of interviewing greg bonson uh but a very horrible thing happened i lost the tape oh no oh no well let me tell you i became friends with him uh i did i have i heard him speak on the on particular atonement and he was exhaustive i mean he just exhausted the subject he did such a great job on it i loved i did not agree with his theonomy though i think he is the most he was the most consistent of his covenant theology well i'm going to be interviewing gary demar god willing yeah on the 19th of june to promote his new book on greg bonson oh is that right well yeah he's going to be on the second second half of the show oz guinness is on the first hour yeah well i i knew him when he first came to reform seminary we played tennis together we became friends we attended at one time just four times the same and he either was a sweet kind and gracious man though i disagreed with him but but uh i felt he was a very consistent covenant theologian but uh anyway and did you ever know henry mayhem i didn't know him personally but i knew who he who he was um i i well and and i know him well he was just precious man met him very early when we came to grace and uh he was one of those that he had a charming way about him but he could preach on depravity and he talked about being lower than a snake's belly and things like that it was a charming way about it you know but he was so consistent and the one thing i i mentioned about him he preached his son's own funeral his son was 21 and he joined the army was sent to vietnam within three weeks after being in vietnam he was in a helicopter flying over some trees and a sniper shot him and killed him he was sent home and he told his wife doris he says he says honey i've been preaching about the sovereignty of god about predestination and it's time for us to live it and he got up and he preached his own son's funeral and brother that is powerful he says bobby did not live one day longer nor one day shorter than god planned and purposed i tell you what i tell you that takes great amen what it was he said god planned it all and that it was his time he said he lived a full and complete life don't give me this he didn't get to do this and that he said he lived a full life that was what god's purpose and so i you know i honored that i think that's just a marvelous thing a couple of other people here i see uh randy pazino do you know randy oh yeah i had the privilege of hearing him preach not only at the church where i was a member on long island but at the church he was pastoring in roanoke virginia at one time trinity church yeah i preached there as well that's been a long time ago but yeah he i got in touch with him when he was in africa he was doing some teaching over in africa with a friend of mine bobby tinney and uh that was that was an interesting i think gary long uh you're familiar with gary d long aren't you yes uh gary just preached uh about a year ago at the uh john bunyan conference at bill sasser's church grace church of franklin and i was there i was present and i've been giving away gary's book on definite atonement for years oh listen he's very thorough he's very thorough i love that what he did on matthew 5 16 and 17 that's that's an excellent work then i see tom neville's here i've known tom neville since college days he played basketball for mississippi college and i played for bellhaven college yeah i'm a very good friend of uh toms as well and he's been a guest here many times in the show yeah yeah well we beat him in college anyway he's a terrific guy uh i see here's you know jerry loker no he's in from michigan uh he's about 85 or 6 now uh preaching gladwin michigan have a tremendous story about him that uh he was in the army he joined the army when he's 16 uh back after the korean war i guess you know he he wasn't supposed to be but he he joined and uh he told me about some of the things that happened to him being in a foxhole and the guy next to him getting shot but one of the things that he talked about he was not a believer of course he was uh he was just you know a man that lived life and and loved things uh of the world and but he was in the in the one of the places where they were a man was injured this is during the war one of the men with was injured and there were all these people around him they call for a medic to bring our for to get some plasma and what happened was he said they told me that is jerry lokers go get the plasma and bring it back he says i got up and walked away and there are about four or five people around this man and they lifted him up and he was on a mind and he says all of a sudden their arms and legs flying everywhere and he said i was spared and that was one of the things that caused him to upon god and then he became a minister of the gospel i just think amazing how god calls men in different ways and how he uses them you know and how what a change he makes in the life of individuals i just love hearing people's testimonies when they have you know are able to express it in such a way of god's grace just being so paramount in their lives another man i see here i have on my screen is john montgomery boys james montgomery boys james james i forgive me jay montgomery boys who had a tremendous influence over me uh i met him in dallas uh of course he was in philadelphia uh pastor of 10th presbyterian church there but uh he was he was not uh oh what can i say mainline covenant theologian he he had he had some uh new covenant in him as far as i'm concerned but he was just a great man he just so gracious and tender and excellent speaker i heard him speak also when he was in jackson mississippi at the first presbyterian church there and uh enjoyed that ian murray is another one i have on here uh ian murray was was such a a blessing yes in fact let's pick up on ian murray when we come back as we have to go to our final right all right don't go away folks we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors james white of alpha omega ministries and the dividing line webcast here although god has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with pastor rich jensen and the brethren at hope reform baptist church now located at their new beautiful facilities in corham long island new york i've had the privilege of opening god's word from their pulpit on many occasions have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my new york debates i do not hesitate to highly recommend hope reform baptist church of corham long island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught discipled and edified by the holy scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in christ i also want to congratulate hope reform baptist church of corham for the recent appointment of pastor rich jensen's co -elder pastor christopher mcdowell for more information on hope reform baptist church go to hope reformed li .net

that's hope reformed li .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 tell the folks at hope reform baptist church of that you heard about them from james white on iron sharpens iron radio we are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family bhanu gadi owner of three new york pharmacies lee's drugs of floral park long beach chemists and prescription center of long island in hempstead bhanu gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic please contact dr gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion we are all hearing in the media to find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000 that's 516 -354 -2000 or order online at lee's drugs rx .com

that's l -e -e -s drugs rx .com don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program greetings in the matchless name of our lord jesus christ my name is bhanu gadi i'm a pharmacist in new york which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through in psalm 139 verse 14 the psalmist offers praise to the lord like this i praise you because i am fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well he saw god's goodness and mercy kindness and the beauty in what god has designed and he has erupted into praise in any crisis or problem brothers and sisters our only fallback position is to trust god's design and once we do there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him when the whole world is searching for a solution god in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness which can be very serious such is the beauty of his design knowing that design how can we not erupt in praise to our great god like the psalmist did may god bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design thank you this is pastor bill saso grace church at franklin here in the beautiful state of tennessee our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens iron radio financially grace church at franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of god as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our lord jesus christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of god if you live near franklin tennessee and franklin is just south of nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some lord's day in worshiping our god and savior please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about grace church at franklin our website is grace church at franklin .org

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and we are now back with our final portion of today's interview uh and today our guest has been ron mckinney of kinsey drive baptist church in dalton georgia and you were just speaking about ian murray when we went to the break yes i did and uh of course ian murray uh was the man that was involved with uh dr david martin lloyd jones and was a key figure in the uh the book ministry and i'm trying to remember banner of truth banner of truth i can't believe i could remember it but uh yes banner of truth you know was what a what an amazing thing that was because there was really no publishing uh of good material a biblical material what i would call uh sovereign grace uh material and and so the banner of truth began to republish a lot of the older material uh of men uh going back not only spurgeon but in fact uh ian murray's book the forgotten spurgeon is is one of the best books you can read about the sovereignty of god it's just terrific but they were printing some of the works uh men that you know that were unheard of and yet they were prominent men at one time and uh so the book ministry began and as much as it was uh it was the headquarters in the united states is right there in carlisle isn't it that's right yes sir and uh i've been there to carlisle i've seen that and uh you know it's uh it's amazing what what has happened over the years how many books there have been that's been published uh new writings but a lot of the old writers have come back richard said this is what i'm thinking of and and uh anyway they're just any number of them we have a question we have a question for you uh from uh harrison and mechanicsburg pennsylvania he wants him he wants to know if rolf barnard was any influence on you oh yes uh ralph barnard would be from henry mayhem and i don't know i'm going to tell this because this is this is the way it happened ralph barnard came to believe in the sovereignty of god about the time uh that i would i would say the 40s 50s i'm not sure exactly but uh he was an evangelist and he was the man who who would would say what he thought and believe whether it was liked or not uh to give an example at one time he was preaching and he and the lady came up to him he says mr barnard don't you know that a drop of honey catches more flies than the gallon of gall and ralph barnard said to he said honey said i'm not trying to catch any flies i'm trying to kill sinners and he he was a very uh very straightforward man and the priest's sovereignty at that point would be shocking to people and one of the people that he influenced the most i mean the man that was uh uh the man in kentucky that i mentioned that henry mayhem right in the area henry mayhem was in this large southern baptist church and he was an associate pastor a very young man and he was sitting down on the front pew when ralph barnard was preaching and so he said to to henry who was sitting on the front i said son would you just will you quote for me romans 8 28 for me and so he got up and he says well we know that all things work together for good and he sat down son you didn't preach the rest you didn't read you didn't quote the rest of the the scriptures and so he then got up and he quoted and to them that are called according to his purpose and with that ralph barnard said to him he said son when you learn what that name that word purpose means then you're going to be ready to preach the gospel you gotta know what purpose is and that that was the thing that changed henry mayhem's life in in terms of his preaching and of course he had a had a church of probably three or four hundred people for many years and he was their pastor there in lexington kentucky and we have another listener we have cj from lyndon hearst long island new york who wants to know are you familiar with don fortner's ministry i am yes i am familiar with him i know that he has had a very powerful ministry i have not i've met him on occasion uh but it's been a while back my father -in -law was in charleston west virginia dr robert e mcneil and uh he knew don fortner very well and he was very closely connected with henry man who you've already mentioned yes yes they were i did i just didn't have my my path didn't cross with him very much but i was certainly aware of him and i i met him i know but uh well you know we're already out of time uh and do you have an idea yet what you'd like to speak on tomorrow when you come back well you know what i'd like to do i'd like to just speak a little bit about my views towards the whole matter of what it is to be in christ and converted sounds great i i just i feel like it's a it's this chord that needs to be strung and and played and so i i just that would be something i'd love to do and i can give you some uh you know illustrations of what god has done in lives of some people well i want to give your address or your email address i should say not your email i'm sorry your website to our listeners it's kinsey drive baptistchurch .com