September 14, 2020 Show with Gordan Runyan on “On This Ancient Battleground: Winning the War Between Tyranny & Christian Faith”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Introduction and Proverbs 27:17

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 14th day of September 2020.

I'm thrilled to have a first-time guest today. His name is Pastor Gordon Runyon. He's the pastor of Emanuel Baptist Church of Tucumcari, New Mexico. We're going to be addressing his most recent book on this ancient battleground, winning the war between tyranny and Christian faith.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Gordon Runyon. Hey, thanks, Chris.

It's really good to be here. Glad the Lord has made a way for us. Amen.

Pastor Gordon Runyon, Emanuel Baptist Church, and His Early Life

Well, since you're a first-time guest, as our tradition goes, we always have our first-time guests when they're Christians, of course, which would make up about 99 .99 of our guests. We have them give their testimonies of how they were saved, what kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in, and what providential circumstances the Lord used to raise them up in the faith, to draw them to himself and save them.

But before we do that, why don't you tell our listeners something about Emanuel Baptist Church of Tucumcari, New Mexico?

Yeah, it's Tucumcari, and I don't expect you to know that. It's a small town on I -40, roughly halfway between Albuquerque and Emanuel Baptist Church congregation. I began preaching there about 11 years ago.

Now it's a congregation. Churches with turmoil? I've never even heard of such a thing. Super unusual.

Right. I had a friend who said that he thought it might be a good idea to create a... He would have, like, bottles. So we did have some turmoil. It was a run-of-the-mill kind of country. Instead of the deacon board confession, he kind of...

I'm sure he was doing the... So we did have that kind of turmoil, but now we try to keep our eyes open and opportunities. We're trying to get some things done and what God has done.

Well, the Emanuel Baptist Church of Tucumcari, New Mexico, does not yet have a website. They're working on that. So if anybody wants more information, you can contact the church at reformnm at yahoo .com.

That's reform, no ed at the end, reformnm, for New Mexico, at yahoo .com. Okay, well, tell us about... Something about the home you were raised in, what kind of religious atmosphere existed, if any, and what providential circumstances our Lord used in His sovereignty to draw you to Himself and save you.

Amen. This is the part of the interview I've been looking forward to. Seriously, I'm so thankful for the... My dad would say grace over the USA denomination, by my estimation. Back then, even back in the state, they were eager to welcome me.

I grew up, believed God, and everything was good. Nobody else around. It was a pretty dead place. And it really began to nag at me. And you might find it interesting. Nag at me was the old doxology.

Oh, yeah. You mean, praise God from whom all blessings flow. Praise thee all creatures here below. I don't think anybody wants to hear me continue singing. Although the doxology itself is beautiful. Exactly. I was hoping I could get you to sing it.

That's one bomb.

So there I was, this young kid of about 20. At some point, it began to occur. It really began to occur to me of praise and glory to God. Not thinking about it very much. I knew of that kind of praise from when he...

And so I found myself in a way. Wife and I, eventually, we got transferred to Idaho. Yeah, they stationed Navy people in Idaho back then. So we were in our new house. And the furniture wasn't set up. And we had an inflatable mattress set up on the bedroom.

It must have been that I was watching an evangelist on there. It wasn't Pat Ryan. I would have recognized him. But it was some other guy that I didn't know. And his message, I don't remember it exactly.

But be the man that God's called you to be. And I just knew that he gave a... He gave a sinner's... He gave a sinner's prayer and went to him. Because there were no... I had to ask my wife, do we even own a Bible?

And to dig it out of the box to work. It was an hour and a half both ways. But it turned out to be a blessing from God. Because I knew that Jesus... I just noticed at one point that without being told that I must repent.

I could look back on the man that I used to be. Anything to do with him. But he came to me in that moment. And he really made me a new creature. Puppy dog. He was getting into something in 1989. My love for it has increased.

Of that kind of praise of the whole...

Gratitude and the whole thing. So how did you come to discover and embrace the Reformed faith?

Oh, there's a man you might have heard of named Dr. Gary North. Yes, of course. He wrote a little book called 75 Bible Questions That Your Instructors Pray You Won't Ask.

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a Gary North title.

It absolutely is. The first 25 questions, if I remember right, are all about Calvinism and bibliography. For these ideas more.

Tyranny, the Law of God, and the Christian Duty to Resist

I'm going to announce our email address in the event that anybody listening wants to email their own question. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Well, what compelled you to write the book on this ancient battleground, winning the war between tyranny and Christian faith?

That's a great question.

I am writing a... We paid anything, but it was spread the word. The thought was at the time, evangelical... I knew I didn't want to do that. Write instead about things... Use that opportunity to introduce run-of-the-mill sort of evangelical belief.

And that... Evangelical is... Should we do when those governments... The Bible really does... We... After I've been over a year, they bite-sized the piece. You can gather these articles. I'll read them by the topic.

My intention is that if you know somebody who needs to be introduced or challenged, in those areas, it's not a book that you can give it out like popcorn. The same. I wanted to keep by this and...

Great. Well, I hope that the Lord draws more attention to your book by... As a result of our discussion today. And if you could also define tyranny, obviously, there have been throughout history, governments and individuals who are tyrants or tyrannical.

And their barbarism is sometimes too disturbing to even describe. And then, of course, there are lesser forms of tyranny that are the... The genesis of what may become something that hideous down the road, but...

Terrifying than that which we know of, which occurred in the days of Nero, for instance, or... Or other tyrants like Adolf Hitler, for a more modern example. But describe or define tyranny.

Okay. Well, I'm not a very original tyranny. You mentioned one. You use the word when you look up to... So that's the thing that is maybe a little bit surprisingly include the idea of arbitrariness or randomness in the use of power.

The thing that makes a tyrant super scary is kind of that you're not always sure what... There's an element of Dr. Greg Bronson. You're either going to govern yourself by the law of God. He used to...

Of course, he used the word theonomy for the law of God and autonomy. You find a rule... The use of the law of God and God's power begins to depend often... Anti-God, anti...

Now, this issue or the issue specifically of obeying earthly governments that providentially for better or for worse have been placed in authority over you, no matter who you are or where you live. This subject has come up a lot on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio and even from differing viewpoints.

Sure. In fact, even from it appears to be at times polar opposite viewpoints. Because of this whole coronavirus thing... Oh, yeah. There are those that have refused to close their churches ever, who from the get-go always remained open, never submitted to their local governing authorities the insistence of their local governing authorities to shut down public services and to exclusively use live streaming and other methods.

And there are those who not only immediately shut down their services and either used live streaming or didn't do anything really in the way of public evangelism. And not only that, some of those have been and continue to be very forcefully at times.

And of course, this is a mixed bag of people. Not all are like this, but some have been forcefully and vociferously condemning those that disobeyed their local government and remained open. And I include in those who have been seeking to obey their local governments in this area, I include among them even very conservative and reformed Christian churches.

Absolutely. So you have people on both sides of this issue who may be... You may have pastors that have even shared the podium at Bible conferences because they believe so identically in most other things.

And you have people who read the same books and have the same heroes, have the same confessions of faith, they're on the same denomination. And you might even have differences of opinion in the same congregation over these things.

So tell us about your belief that it is a Christian duty to oppose tyranny in government, in authority, when the Bible does command us to submit to governing authorities, even those that are evil.

Sure, sure. Well, that's a good one. You've definitely got to hash out because those passages do seem at least a little bit. Because I know that when I say it's right to resist wicked rulers and a believer to do so, I know that people may hear something that I'm not saying.

One of the things I'm not saying, I'm not... When I talk about resistance, I'm generally talking about things like disobedience even, and things as simple as, you know, we should pull people down and advocating a generally rebellious or disobedient spirit.

I do believe that we should desire to... It should be our default setting. I think we should be... A lot of garbage, frankly, that I think is contradictory to the ideas you may have heard of called the Vindice Contra Tyrannos.

I can't tell you who actually wrote it. But one of the things...

In fact, before you go to those doctrines, just remember, that's where we left off because we have to go to our first break. Sure. And if anybody wants to join us, as I said, we already do have listeners waiting.

I hope they're waiting patiently, but we have listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered. But if anybody wants to join them and get in line, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of our guest, Pastor Gordon Runyon, and our discussion on winning the war between tyranny and Christian faith. Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages. Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Shop and Zion Radio recently. Good to be back.

Chris, I always enjoy our time. You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years. Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything. We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air. So I don't have to brag about myself. Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Shop and Zion Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern time at ironshopandzionradio .com.

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The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome. Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one-of-a-kind work of art.

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Thank you.

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That's solid-ground-books .com. Where we left off, Gordon Runyon, you were discussing two doctrines that have led you to the position that you hold about opposing tyranny.

Yeah, they sure do help us get there, at least. J .C. Wright, in the late 1800s, the document was called Private Judgment. I was talking about the three doctrines that I think are... One of those doctrines was gigantic, if we don't understand that the...

No anchor in the...

It's the sole infallible and inerrant authority for the church.

Absolutely. In every area of faith and practices, that would include the area of how we define the governor. The other thing that I like, I merely believe in the Bible alone, but we're not red-letter Christian believers, but we believe that all the Bible, all scripture is inspired by God.

Combine that doctrine of sola scriptura with one that by and duty of pride, we believe that nobody's going to act by saying, well, no, you're going to be... You're going to have to... You've also given each individual a conscience.

I don't believe the conscience is perfect. I believe the conscience... But each individual has a conscience. You're... You think on some level might be wrong. It probably is. And so you're... Demonetize your estimation.

The big deal, the Judgment Day, is individual visits to test all that they do. And God didn't get a pass. Abigail, the wife of Naboth... So once we get sola scriptura, tota scriptura...

Great. Well, I'm going to read a question and I'm going to have you answer it when we return from our midway break. Timothy in Fremont, California, which he called commie-fornia. Timothy says, greetings.

If this question relates to the topic, please ask your guest, what about those never-Trumper Christians not voting for the lesser of two evils? Seems to me there's only two legitimate choices. Obviously, capitalism, law and order, trumps Marxism, pun intended.

And so we're going to have you answer that when we come back from the break because there is a difference of opinion amongst many Christians on whether some Christians even think it's a sin not to vote because you are not being a good steward of the nation where you have been placed by God's providence.

And other Christians believe it is perfectly legitimate for Christians to exercise their liberty not to vote if they believe both candidates are evil or not worthy of the office, etc. But if anybody else wants to join us, we do have a lot of people waiting, but you could join us too at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Chris Arnn is the host.

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All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching. Jeffrey uses the finest buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors, like the turquoise goat skin tanned in Italy used for my Nestle All in 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome. Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather, making whatever he rebinds a one of a kind work of art.

For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com. That's ptlbiblerebinding .com.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

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