Mormonism Cannot Save You

The Deity of Christ and the Danger of a Different Jesus

Hi, how are you doing? That's that's fine. My name is Andrew. Julia this is my son. That's Mo. Oh, yeah, my son poet and my daughter Marley. Have you ever so you've never seen us out here on the corner before?

No, how long have you been down in Provo a long time and you've never seen every Thursday? We're out here except for when it's super cold. Yeah. Yeah, so we're preaching the gospel to our hey buddy relax, oh he dropped his little we can get you another one, okay.

Yeah, so we're out here preaching the gospel to our LDS neighbors. Like what do you know about Christianity in general Christianity? Yeah, I mean I. Right, right, right cool cool. That's awesome. So when you say forgiving of sins and then washed clean by baptism, what do you mean by that?

What like are you looking for a specific answer? Yeah. Yeah. What does that mean? Exactly? I just want to know what you believe early. Yeah. Right. Interesting. Hold on buddy. Yeah, so what my first question would be you say Jesus so what do you believe about Jesus?

Literal son of God literal son of God. Okay, so he's the offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Just like all of us. Okay, so in terms of being son of Adam. How would how would you reconcile that with actually being offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother?

Instead of being offspring of Adam because really you're just Adam's like sister not necessarily the daughter of Adam. Okay in John chapter 1 what it says about Jesus. It says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

All things were created through him on heaven and on earth. There was nothing that came into being unless it was created through Jesus, right? So in the Greek in John chapter 1 verse 1 it says in our K in.

In the word was is what we use to translate in and the word in in Greek is much more expressive that we haven't than We have in English. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, I know so what it means though is it means as far back as you can go with no point of reference of space.

Or time Jesus the Word was already there that he never came into existence at a point in time. And then it says and the Word was with God and that's the was is in again frost on they on which is in a face.

To face intimate relationship with God and then it says and he was gone. So LDS theology teaches something different. It says that he was not always God that he's the offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

Yeah, but that's different than what John chapter 1 says. It clearly says that he always has been God and he created all things on heaven and on earth. But the Jesus presented to us in the LDS faith says that that's not true.

He didn't create Lucifer. He's the spirit brother of Lucifer. Right and the Bible warns us in 2nd Corinthians 11 verse 4. It says there's people that will come and preach a different Jesus a different gospel who have accepted a different spirit.

And so that's my worry for my LDS neighbors is that you believe in a different Jesus the Jesus of Joseph Smith. Not the Jesus of the Bible. I like what you say about the Atonement. Yeah, that's great.

Justification by the Righteousness of Christ, Not Human Merit

Yeah, I mean that's that's the whole.

That's the whole center. I mean that I think that is what it means to be a Christian and I think that As a member of the church, I mean none of us are perfect. I was actually with a friend we were talking about this day we're like, you know, like like Jesus is perfect and like God is perfect and The gospel is perfect, but the church it's not perfect because We're carnal and we're not perfect and that's okay because we're doing our best.

And like the whole reason to be here is to learn to become like Jesus Christ and to do the best that we can. And so I think that I mean if we forget that Jesus is meant to be at the center of everything.

But yes, we fail and like yes. Like we're worshiping something besides like what is the most important thing and I think we forget sometimes because we are Carnal, unfortunately, we man has a short memory.

I mean, right, right, but so So do you believe so what. I guess my question is kind of like to bounce off like you say like I Worry that my eldest brother's sister is leaving a different Jesus. Like what Jesus you believe in them because right right I mean, I'm assuming that like just from shaking your head and being like, yeah, like the atonement is Christ.

Like it seems like you believe in the same Jesus. Well, I would say I would say first I wouldn't use the term brothers and sisters. Respectfully. Julia respectfully. I'd say brothers and sisters in Adam, but not in Christ.

Respectfully. But um in terms of what I would believe about Jesus I believe actually what the scriptures say about it that he has always been God. And that he took on flesh and died on the cross for my sins.

So when I stand before the Father I stand justified declared righteous through the righteousness of Christ. Now when I stand before the Father, I have nothing to offer him because the Bible says my righteousness is nothing but filthy rags.

But we're told by Joseph Smith He says you have imagined and supposed that God has been God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see you have got to learn to become God's.

So that's the teachings of Joseph Smith, right? But what bothers me is that you may be worshiping a Jesus Christ a fiction one that doesn't actually exist. Right. So if we're presented with a different Jesus than the one of Scripture, you're ultimately gonna end up with a different gospel.

One of my worries is and you can correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not LDS. So I could get your theology wrong, but say say you're you're married, right? Don't doesn't your husband have to call you by a secret name in order to become resurrected at the end?

No, that's not a real thing. No, so like I mean like we're all given names. So like in the temple, like we are all given a name a symbol. Okay, when we go through and we receive promises through the endowment, but it's not buddy.

I mean Like it's not through our husband that we receive resurrection like it is through Jesus Christ. He doesn't have to call your name. So honestly, like We don't know like and that's the thing. Like that's one of those things of God like that we.

And I'm gonna like butcher this. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine I'm gonna go to this because like I'm still learning like I'm honestly like I don't remember for a long time. But I'm still learning and I'm still like Trying to go to the temple and trying to learn as much as I can and I don't want to Preach something and like so forgive me like if I like, yeah, you know, you're good.

If I give it to you the way that I understand it, that's fine. I'm part of yeah, but the way that I understand it is it's it's part of like a Ceremony of some sort but again, like we don't know the ways of God.

Like we don't know like it could just be like that's the way that God is like, okay. This is the best way that I can take to describe it. Like maybe it's not my husband. Maybe that is just meant to be like the representation of like because Jesus Christ is the bride.

Right. Yeah, and we are meant to be his bride like the church's bride. Yeah. Well, I know it could be Jesus. Interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm like really I'm just To love people and to to support and to serve and to To be who I think Jesus is to other people, right?

And so like I think that's why I like Talking to you guys because obviously like you guys love to do this.

Like we both love Jesus and I'd say different Jesus though.

And I'll agree to disagree. I think I think in a lot of ways like we we love the same Jesus. Like maybe like we we believe.

Different Jesuses, Different Gospels

Here's it here's a thought like it here's a thought for you, right? So say say you're talking with the Jehovah's Witness and you're talking with the Muslim and you're talking with a Christian. All of them claim To believe in Jesus.

The Jehovah's Witness says he is Michael the Archangel the first creation of Jehovah God The prophet but he's not the Savior of the world. He's not God in the flesh. He didn't die on the cross for your sins.

The Christian will say that he is the eternal God in the flesh who died on the cross for my sins. Do they all believe in the same Jesus? No, absolutely, absolutely, right. So I would say as well with the LDS person saying that Jesus is not the eternal God But the creation of God in plain denial of what scripture teaches about Jesus.

I'd say it's a different Jesus.

Not creation uncreated. Absolutely, okay, okay that. Cuz I was like trying to like kind of come to the level where you guys are. Yeah. Yeah, we make sense. Why why you're like, yeah, we don't believe in the same Jesus because I mean in LDS theology.

We believe like the Father and the Son the Holy Ghost are three separate beings. Yeah, I know. Yeah. No, that's not a good thing.

And the eternal progression of God's. This is what it says about God in the Bible. Isaiah 43 10 It says before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 44 6 I'm the first and I am the last besides me.

There is no God. He says look around. I know not one. If you believe in the Trinity.

Whether it's one person or three people. And to Serve your fellow men and to love God like unto yourself like and to love your neighbor like this a great commandment kind of thing and. Yeah, and if they both teach that and if you agree that they both teach that yeah, then why.

Why get hung up?

Great question. Right great question because I believe actually in Isaiah 43 10. It says you are my witnesses declares the Lord's the servant that I have chosen that you may know and understand and believe that I am he and Jesus Christ himself.

Says unless you believe that I am ego I mean you will die in your sins. And he's actually quoting in the I am he statements from Isaiah in reference to the eternal God, which is something that's beautiful.

So that's a great question that you bring up because in the scripture 2nd Corinthians 11 when it warns us about people who preach a Different Jesus a different gospel a different spirit. It says they're further in the chapter.

I know you're getting cold. It says that there's people that look like they're doing works of righteousness. Right that they believe almost the same thing that you believe. But since they believe in a different Jesus a different gospel a different spirit It says that the ends will correspond to their deeds and those deeds are deeds of death.

So it's not because you do good things. That makes you a righteous person. That's the thing. So just because someone teaches it I mean Muslims teach very similar things, but it doesn't make them a righteous person.

I would say this I'd say what is the end of that deed right in Christianity? My goal is to glorify God and enjoy him forever and Joseph. Well, no Joseph Smith taught that you must become a god one day.

He says you have got to learn to become gods. But you yourself one day will have offspring if you reach the highest level of heaven through obedience to the doctrine ordinances and principles. That then you become a deity right?

No, so the so the deeds aren't done to glorify God. They're to become a god and be glorified forever. You would want to be a heavenly mother one day. Would you not?

Not biblical. Do you guys think that members of the church. Simply do the things that we do because we're I guess for lack of a better word earning heaven. Absolutely.

Obedience to the gospel ordinances and principles things that have to be done in order to reach the highest level of heaven. Like we're on I 1032 for example, love the Lord with all your might mind and strength and then God's grace is sufficient for you.

But Ephesians 2 says something totally different. It says that we were dead in our trespasses and sins, right? We're once children of wrath. It says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith and not of ourselves.

I like that you're with me. I'm with you. Yeah.

Grace, Faith, and the False Gospel of Earning Heaven

But we don't believe that we're earning heaven. I think a better way we believe that we're learning. That by living in this way of life. Because God like he's on a whole nother level. Like would you say like he is like absolute purity absolute goodness.

Like he's all that. Yeah, and if I am if I'm living a certain way I Think that eventually I'll be because I want to be with him I want to be in his presence and I I would I'd like to believe that I'm Trying to be a good person if I'm trying to follow the commandments if I'm trying to serve and love that when that time comes that I'll be comfortable in his presence and so I think I I believe and I'm and I'm sure that there are Millions of members that would agree with me that we're not trying to earn heaven because we can't that we can't earn heaven.

And and the whole trying to get to the kingdom is not earning. We don't believe that keeping the commandments. We don't believe that I go to the temple. We don't believe that by going to church or paying tithing it's gonna earn our way to heaven somehow that that hold on buddy.

That gets rid of God's atonement. But that it's hopefully changing us into a being. So guys.

Do all these good deeds and then right after all those words you do and then The grace is finally sufficient. By grace are you safe you faith is not of yourselves not of works. Thank you. Paul actually expounds on the same thing to the Galatians.

He says in chapter one like the beginning of the letter. He says That we've given to you that you can see from us whether it's us Teaching a different gospel. He says let it be a curse. Is the Greek so Paul is distinguishing the differences between Gospels.

The Gospels is what saves men from sin? So Moroni chapter 10 verse 32 second Nephi 24 23 for by grace. You're saved after all you can do. Those are two different Gospels. Paul in Galatians is actually dealing with men who said well, you know, you can have your faith in Christ.

You can you can have pride. Sure. You just need a small part of the law. It's just circumcision. That's it. And that's a different gospel. He said that the Galatians fell from the grace of God that they know they long no longer.

We're holding to a gospel but false one false one and the same with Christ. Paul brings that up in 2nd Corinthians, I believe third Second Corinthians 13 for 11 for My brain but but he brings up that many will come to Christian different Christ's.

And just as my brother said they will seem it will act like. They will look at our fruits. Look we have we have we feed homeless people. But Paul it's up because they have a different price and you have to go through their ends with me.

Meaning the Mormon Church has a different gospel. They can't say Your faith plus your rights. Well, yeah, well it's plain and more and I took the country says the nine and godliness everybody this. And then it says right after and then this grace, but the Bible teaches the Apostles Jesus.

They all taught that grace.

10 32 Today. So this is great good. Yeah, I just barely finished it today. I just like finish it up. So this is great. I love this.

But compare that passage where with what when the Bible says Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8 with my grace and safety faith.

I Love like it sounds like you guys have at least like read like bits and pieces of That by his grace It is only through his grace that you may be perfect in Christ and if by the grace of God you perfect.

So he doesn't like he says like it is through the grace of God.

What about that beginning for own says denying all in Godliness. Then this is loving the Lord your God with all your heart so mine and strength.

Then the grace comes in for the perfection. So Jesus actually says that's part of the law.

That's probably the best the most where all the prophets stand is on that law versus love the Lord your God. Yeah, well Paul says if you wish To be justified by doing that by receiving grace through that He says you are condemned and you will not be justified before God.

He expounds the same thing on the meaning of grace and Romans chapter 11 verse 6. He says if it is a brace If it is a works no longer do you have grace. But that but that due to the person who has worked for the grace is something that man cannot receive by works by Loving your neighbor loving God.

Which you agree with you said. Well, you know, we can't. Well, that's a dangerous thing Paul says.

Judgment, Prophets, and the Call to Test Everything by Scripture

So, I guess my question is do you guys think I'm going to hell yes.

Well, that's that's well, that's good why we care about you. That's why we're out here. Do you understand Julia? No, no, that's the that's the message of the gospel. The gospel is is we are on track to hell.

But only the eternal God can save us. No, I'm saved by the blood of Christ. It says in John Different Jesus. No Julia. Listen, listen before I lose you before I lose you. We're out here because we care about you number one, right?

Thank you. I Believe you on that. So the reason why we talk about a different Jesus and why it's so important is number one if you believe in a different Jesus. You're gonna end up with a different gospel.

All right, but also because of this there's two tests of a prophet in the Bible. There's Deuteronomy 13 in Deuteronomy 18. Deuteronomy 13 says if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams Arises among you and produces miracles signs and wonders but leads you after another God Gods that you have not known don't believe them and then Deuteronomy 18 is the second test of a prophet.

It says if anyone claims to speak in the name of Yahweh, right? But the thing does not come to pass just one thing false prophet, right? So you're told to read the Book of Mormon to break the pit to pray about it to find out whether it's true to use Your subjective human experience and your feelings whether or not it's true.

Well, the Bible tells me Joseph Smith says something. He says he has a revelation from God who claims to be a prophet a seer a revelator, right? Well the way I'm gonna test him is by what the scriptures say I'm gonna go to Deuteronomy 13 if he leads me after another God gods.

Which I have not known the ones that have been previously revealed. I must reject him. So Jesus Christ is the eternal God uncreated scripture clearly shows us that he created Lucifer. He's not the spirit brother of Lucifer.

Joseph said you have imagined and supposed that God has been God from all eternity. He says I will refute that idea and take away the veil sledge. You may see it's from the King Follett discourse. You can look it up.

Then he says you have got to learn to become God. Okay, and then in Deuteronomy 18, it says one false prophecy false prophet. Joseph Smith had many false prophecies. False prophet there's false prophecies right here from your guys's own literature.

These are. I must reject him according to God's Word. I Must reject him because God's Word actually protects me. Think about this. Think about this real quick in the garden. Oh, okay. Hold on in the garden.

In the garden, right what happens right. The devil comes and he tends to you. He said you can eat from that fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, right. And then he was like, no, I can't do that.

Can you help your brother, please? He's like, no, I can't do that. And the Satan goes did God really say that? He says he doesn't want you to eat from the fruit because he knows you'll be just like God.

Joseph Smith told you the very same thing. He said the Bible is missing many plain and precious parts. He said and guess what you can become like God. It's the same life Satan. He says you need to work your way up there.

The way I can be protected to not be deceived is because I have God's Word. It says every word of God proves true. He is like a shield unto them who puts their faith in him. Add thou not to these words lest he rebukes you and that Shall be found a liar.

Jesus says this heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words by no means will ever pass away. Joseph Smith denies the very words of Christ. Jesus says on this rock I have established my church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it.

Joseph said guess what? There's a great apostasy. The church failed and I'm here to restore the gospel and he tempted you with the very same lie. Julia test your prophet to Scripture. He's leading you astray.

You say you love God then test your prophet. According to Scripture according to your feelings. The Bible doesn't say to determine things by prayer. It says test the spirits. Test them according to God's previously revealed world.

Julia do it. I know you say you love God. Think about it imagine I was.

Love, Truth, and the Final Warning to Test the Spirits

You guys are going to talk. Because you guys like you're obviously well prepared you guys obviously like got your arguments you've got like your Book of Mormon and your Bible and. And I like I academically I Can't commit with you guys because you guys you have your arguments you have your pamphlets you have these things.

It's just the words of your prophet though comparing it to Scripture. We care about you.

Then test it and I appreciate honestly, like I appreciate that you guys are here that you guys are like.

But you believe it according to your feelings not according to what God's Word says so you're not actually certain. You're certain right now because that's how you feel. But your whole faith depends on how you feel.

No, I want you to actually find faith in the true and living God who can sustain you when you stand before the Father justified in the perfect righteousness of Christ. A Different Christ according to Scripture, that's what Scripture says.

According to God's Word.

Said you read Joseph Smith said there's more than one God Said you can become the God says for me. They're women. That's how much I'm gonna be after Julie you have to deal with. That's something that you just have to see it plainly the same.

And I think I don't know. I feel a little bit like We had a good discussion going on about Jesus and about how we both love God. We both love Jesus and how like his atonement Encompasses all and that is through his grace that you.

But it is I'm not gonna like it is hard to like when I have a good discussion about Jesus.

And then to have you guys basically like we're going to help. I mean, that's what the scriptures say. Jesus spoke more about hell than anybody. Julia, and I'm just saying that it was like a very positive conversation.

And I love you guys, and I respect you guys for being out here and for talking about Jesus. It's hard.

I'd say how do you know that? And if you tell me it's your feelings, I'm gonna say well God's Word says otherwise.

Would you have put it this way. And the love passage? This is the first Corinthians chapter 13. But Paul says the love is it says love rejoices in truth. So if we see you and we hear you're you're believing a lie.

And we do not preach the gospel or we do not preach truth to you. The Bible actually says that we're not being loving at all. The Bible actually says we're hating. Jesus did the exact same thing to cause out many men and sin Preachers.

Imagine if I was in a building and I'm on like the top floor and you told me there's a fire. But you know look well. It'd be unloving if you didn't tell me that. So that's exactly the same thing we're doing right now.

You're believing a lie and scripture proclaims it it says that you're you're deceived. By your father. False cross. By the false prophet. Your false prophet. 1st John 2. It says test. Everything by the Word of God test the spirits.

Paul says test everything. Hold fast to what is true. So that's just what we're trying to push you to the edge. We do love you truly. I mean I could be at home.

I'm in high school, so I could be literally doing whatever he's in high school believe it or not.

But he he has a family he could be at home with his wife, but because of what God proclaims. The fact that we are out here. We love you guys. We truly want you guys to come to faith in the true Christ.

I'm a true God. It's something to think about.

Just remember the words of Jesus before you go. Okay. He says many will come to me and they will come in my name saying Lord Lord look at the works that I've done in Your name, and he says depart from me you workers of iniquity.

I never knew you they claim to know in the world, but at the end he says depart from me. There's no hope. Yes. Yeah. Thank You Julia. All right, yeah, it's the Sun's going down. Cool hey you have a good night.

Okay, you're awesome for stopping and talking with us. Oh. That's what Jesus preached. God hates the hands that shit innocent blood. Since he loves he also hates. The Bible clearly plainly declares it it says in Romans chapter 3 and no one seeks God no one understands God.

Today praise God. You can believe today. Which one different one though Julia. It says first comes death then comes the judgment there's no hope after that there's only death and then there's nothing else for you.

Love you Julia. Yeah test it. Okay test it according to Scripture. Thank you. Have a good night.