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"Avoid them" according to Jemar Tisby... is exactly what I thought it was....a tactic. No real meaning, just a tactic.
All right, I initially today recorded, or at least attempted to record a video responding to Dr. Russell Moore doing the second part of his Social Justice in the Gospel podcast. It was the same as the first.
I got the same exact criticism, so it's just decided it's not even worth talking about again. I don't need to talk about for another half an hour about how Dr. Russell Moore is the king of straw manning, the king of the bait and switch argument.
So anyway, I decided instead to do something that I've never done, which is respond directly to an episode of Pass the Mic. This is Jamar Tisby and Tyler Burns, two of the most important prophets of social justice in our time.
And I decided to just talk about this directly. Now what I found so interesting about this is the fact that Jamar Tisby wrote an article about how we should avoid the people who wrote this statement, and how we have better things to do than to discuss this stuff.
And debate it, and things like that. And we have more important things. He took the high road. We've got more important work to do. But they will spend almost two hours talking about the social justice statement in a monologue where they can't actually be critiqued or cross-examined.
And so I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say this, that Jamar Tisby doesn't have better things to do than to talk about this. He said all the talk from the social justice people that says, hey, they want a dialogue, they want a discussion.
No, they don't. They want to pontificate. They want to have their monologue. They don't want someone to be able to cross-examine them. Now, I'm not saying they have to just talk to me and let me cross-examine them.
I'm just a nobody from Vermont. But there are people that would be of the status that could dare speak to these prophets. But the reality is they don't want that. They don't want anyone to be able to cross-examine them.
Instead, what they want to do is do videos, or sorry, podcasts, critiquing something that they don't like, which is totally fine. I'd do the same thing. But let's not pretend like you're just, I've got too much important things to do.
We should just avoid them. That's not really what it is. It's just that you don't want to talk to anybody. You want people to hear your words as if they were authoritative and not question them. That's what you want.
And I think it's quite cowardly. But anyway, let's get started. Since they won't talk to me, I am more than happy to do a monologue about their stuff. And the offer still stands. I would like to talk to you as well.
I'm not holding my breath, but we will get started. This is Pass The Mic.
Dynamic voices for a diverse church. This is Pass The Mic.
Greetings and God bless. Welcome to another episode of Pass The Mic. Dynamic voices for a diverse church powered by The Witness, a black Christian collective. I'm your host, Tyler Burns. You can follow me on Twitter at Burns23.
Follow at your own risk. That is not true, Tyler Burns, because, oh my goodness, I just ruined it. Ah, oh no. That is not true, Tyler Burns, because I can't follow you because you blocked me. And I'm pretty sure I've never even talked to you before.
Maybe I have, maybe I have, but I know I haven't said anything evil to you or called you any names, but yet I am blocked. Follow at your own risk doesn't really seem to apply to a guy who is critical of your perspective.
But hey, you don't have to let me follow you. That's totally fine. Of The Witness. Very courageous, by the way.
I can't even have you. Look at what I'm saying. And man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Bluchek verified himself. Jamar Tisby, what's going on, brother? Man, I'm charged up. Man, I'm amped, bro, we back. We back.
We back, it's been like a month. It's been like a month since we put out an episode, right? I don't like when podcasts start first. And then Bo has put out some statements as well, but just want to give you guys a brief update on where we're at.
We will be coming back to iTunes soon. Within the next few weeks, we'll announce a date for that. But in the meantime, Bo been like, so what does this mean? And what does that mean? But The digits.
Exactly, man. That's so important, man. Behind every digit is a human being. Behind every digit, every number is a person. So shout out to you guys for keeping up with us. All right, let's get started here.
You're like, bro, what do I do? I gotta find it. I gotta find where this starts. I don't like where it starts. It's about history. I can't help you out. This is not a criticism of their podcast. Lots of podcasts start with nonsense, but you know, whatever.
I couldn't help you, but you did it on your own, man.
This stuff printed and shared and co-signed by a lot of people and also confusing and troubling and angering a lot of other people, man, I get charged up.
Hold up, man, because we got to, there's one more thing before we get into that. There's one more big thing that happened in your life. No. The morning of the ATL show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been chasing them, girl.
I was like, wait a minute. Don't you be chasing them. There's plenty of time for that. I'm in the family. It doesn't matter what statements. Here we go. I just want to tell you guys that our intent, our heart is not to be adversarial.
It's not to be divisive, but our heart is to assert places where we believe people may have gone astray.
No, that's not your heart. And I know I can prove it because what Jamar, the blue check mark prophet himself said, that is that you should avoid those people who made this statement. It's not, it is about being adversarial.
It is about being divisive. When you use the language of avoid them, that is division. Now it could be good division or it could be bad division, but it is division. Well, let's not mince words here. How could you say that with a straight face?
That's a lie. That is a lie. Because if you wanted to talk about these things and maybe come up with some areas of your concern, you wouldn't have said avoid them. You see what I'm saying? Again, that's why I'm okay saying that that's a lie.
It's not about not wanting to engage the issues. You wanna engage, but from a very safe place where nobody can actually interrogate you or cross-examine you or things like that. So let's not pretend you're not being divisive.
You are being divisive. Now the question is, is it a good division or a bad division? I would say that I have good evidence that it's a bad division. I bet you you would be on the opposite side of that, but let's not pretend like you're all about unity.
You're not, you're not. By avoiding the signers of the statement, I'm sorry, the creators of the statement, you are being divisive. Let's stop pretending.
Just say what you mean. And we believe in particular that certain things ring very close to our personal experience, but also ring very close to the heart of the gospel and the heart of God's character.
And so we have an opportunity to make some comments on the statement that I'm sure some of you have heard about and most of you have probably interacted with in some way, shape or form. And it was a statement on social justice and the gospel.
Now this comes on the heels of a number of different blog posts by Dr. John MacArthur. What a racist. Who is a well-known teacher, expositor, pastor. And Dr. MacArthur wrote these blog posts about social justice in the church.
They were also followed up by sermons as well. And so in the blog posts, he basically talks about what he calls a disturbing trend or a surprising shift. And so he makes some comments in regards to what social justice is or isn't in his mind.
Also, he makes some very strong statements, I guess we can say. And I guess they're best encapsulated in the statement on social justice and the gospel. Now, personally, Jamar, and I don't know about you, I don't know of anyone who is clamoring for a statement to be made.
I don't know of anyone who asks, I'm confused as to where you guys stand. So can you make it clear? Can you come? I do know that there is a potential that maybe people within these congregations or churches are interacting with ideas that maybe they hadn't before.
And so that might have led to maybe they're expanding.
I'm sorry to break this to you, Tyler, but nobody has to give anyone permission to make a statement. Nobody asks you, but nobody has to ask you. It's not like we need permission from all of us minorities in order for people to make a statement on social justice or racism.
White people can make statements on racism, black people can make statements on racism. Did anybody ask for you guys to start your podcast? No, but nobody has to. What is that supposed to mean? Nobody asked for it, but what's the difference?
To authors, people of color, but potentially, I mean, theologians who aren't of Anglo descent. And so they may be introduced to things that they haven't been introduced to before.
Yeah, to all of those racists. Yeah, they haven't heard any of black or brown theologians before. And that's the issue. They're really scared about that. I mean, what are we gonna do with all these minorities?
They're saying things. Please give us a statement.
Ah, the race card. It is my favorite. Through maybe some of the scholarship on reform blogs or any sort of podcast.
Maybe it's our podcast. Maybe it's other people on Twitter. Bro, your podcast ain't reform. I've been talking.
And so personally, I just don't know who was, I don't know who was confused. I don't know who wanted to know where they stood on this.
If you don't know who was confused, frankly, you're more ignorant than you should be on this issue. Especially if you have a podcast and you speak on these issues. If you don't know who was confused, shame on you.
Lots of people are confused. Lots of people are confused. I've been on YouTube for less than a year. I have only 1 ,000 subscribers. I have only 100 ,000 views. And I know tons of people who have reached out to me and said, you know, I was confused about this or I am confused about this or I don't know what to think about this.
I have a tiny little church, tiny, six families. And of those six families, there are families in my church that are confused about this. And it has nothing to do with them not listening to black people, not listening to brown people or being racist or being white supremacist or any of those things.
If you don't know who's confused about this, then maybe you should take a step back, stop the podcast and try to find out who's confused about it. Because that's shameful. Now, I don't believe that you don't know who's confused about this.
I don't believe you. I think that's an obfuscation. I think that is a lie. And I'm happy to say that because it's so obvious who's confused about these things. You've written about who's confused about these things.
So I don't believe you. So I don't know what this posture is. Like who asked for this statement? I don't know what this is all about. This is seems to be like a really very transparent tactic. Go for it though, if you think it helps you.
Or who was confused as to where they stood on this. That's just me personally, Jamar.
Maybe you can say something. That is a huge point. I think by Jamar loves it.
Jamar loves it. It's a huge point. Nobody was confused about this. We didn't need a statement.
Enlarge this statement is creating enemies and villains in the camp where there are none. Yeah. So Wow, that is amazing.
That is absolutely amazing. No, that's actually not what did it. No, you are one of the ones who did it. You know, when you wrote that article that said you were scared to worship with white people because they voted for Trump, you are the one who created enemies and villains in this church.
Your side is the one that started this division when they started popping off at the mouth, calling everyone who supported Trump a white supremacist, whether they knew it or not, whether they actually harbored white supremacist beliefs.
No, everyone is white. So you were on a podcast, or I'm sorry, a YouTube Google Hangout where a woman, you didn't say this, but you didn't oppose it either. A woman said that every institution, every evangelical institutional university is committed to white supremacy.
You're the one who started the division. And so let's not pretend like this is making enemies where they don't exist. No, you started that. You're the one whose blog has an article that says that the white church is Egypt and we need to plunder Egypt.
That is creating an enemy because Egypt is the enemy of the church. We understand that. That's the motif in the scripture. And so by calling white evangelicals Egypt that needs to be plundered, you're the one who created enemies.
Now I'm getting fired up because this is absolutely ridiculous. The statement came out because you started making divisions in the church. Not just you, Jamar, but you are a part of it. And you are a key prophet of this.
But lots of people in the social justice perspective started doing this. I had a pastor who started talking about white supremacists and not just the evil white supremacists that we all agree on. We're talking about run-of-the-mill Republican voters.
They're all white supremacists. This is not what started it. You started it and this is a response to it. Now we might argue about whether or not it's appropriate to respond to ridiculous positions. But I would say that it is, especially when they're so rampant.
I think that this is posturing. I think they know that they started it. I think they know they're being divisive. I think that they're purposely misleading their audience here. And I think it's a lie because they know that when they say avoid them, that is a division that they are calling for.
Yet they say their heart isn't about division. That's a lie. I'm not gonna lie and say that my heart isn't intended to be divisive in some ways. It absolutely is. I'm making a dividing line between the actual gospel and then the phony baloney gospels that are out there.
Now I've never said that you guys are unbelievers and push a phony gospel. I'm not saying that now. But what I am saying is there are dividing lines and my heart is about unity over the doctrine of Jesus Christ, the knowledge of Jesus Christ and correct doctrine and then division where it is not.
That is necessary. I'm a pastor. It's necessary for me to make those distinctions and to make a division there. And so I've never said I don't want any division in the church. No, I do want division in the church where it's appropriate.
To be sure that there are people who have very different theological beliefs and how that plays out on a horizontal level looks extremely different. And maybe there's a conversation there. I mean, we just got back from Courageous Conversations was a great dialogue with people from across the theological spectrum.
Yeah, it was very courageous. I agree. And there were different theological perspectives and in a way that's courageous. But here's where you're not courageous when it comes to this issue. When it comes to this issue, you said, avoid them.
That's cowardly. That's not courageous. Tyler, you blocked me for God only knows what reason, God and you. That's not courageous.
That's not. I wanna save that. Shout out to Lisa Fields in Jude 3, by the way. But I wanna save that because I do wanna talk about that at the end.
Jude 3 was actually the thing where that woman said that all these institutions, all these universities and seminaries were all committed to white supremacy. I'd like to see the receipts on that one. Yeah, but go ahead.
Right. Well, all I'm saying is that's not who they were aiming at. They were taking shots across the bow to people who should be allies. And so they're creating, this is a deeper conversation and maybe we'll get into it, but this is how fundamentalism operates is it plays on fear.
It creates followers based on fear. That's how fundamentalism operates. And so I think this is a prime.
Ooh, the F word. I gotta tell you right now, I'm not opposed to being labeled a fundamentalist. I have no problem with that. But do you see this? Do you see this poisoning of the well? Fundamentalism means fear.
Fundamentalism means you play on people's fears. No, that's not actually what it really means, but hey, you do you.
Example of that. Let's go into the statement, parts of the statement, just brief sections.
This is gonna be good. I only have, I only want another 30 seconds.
Let's do this. Let's Google it and find it and all that good stuff. But speaking on that concern, kind of extending what you were saying there, the introduction says, specifically we are deeply concerned that values borrowed from secular culture are currently undermining scripture in the areas of race and ethnicity, manhood and womanhood, and human sexuality.
Now, what's interesting to me about that statement is that there has already been a statement regarding human sexuality that a lot of these authors signed, the Nashville statement, I believe. So I'm confused as to where human sexuality just found itself in there, in the midst of race and ethnicity, and then manhood and womanhood, what's being aimed at here?
And that was one of the most confusing parts because I was thinking in my head,.
They've already made that clear. Okay, so again, if you're confused, then that's an ignorance that is inexcusable. If you're talking about these social justice issues and you're confused as to why those three things go together, then you are even more ignorant than I thought.
I don't think you are. I think you're a smart guy. And I think, so you're just feigning confusion here. But if you don't understand how the categories of oppressor and oppressed find their way into race, find their way into gender, find their way into human sexuality, then you need to read a little bit more.
I'm being dead serious. Because if you understand the tactics that are being used, the white people are the oppressor, the minorities are the oppressed, males are the oppressor, females are the oppressed, cisgendered people are the oppressor, whatever the other gender thing is, are the oppressed.
If you don't understand how that's related, it's the same tactics. They're using the same exact tactics, the same language, and it's all coming from the same place, critical theory. And so if you don't understand how those are related, then maybe you should read up on it because they are related.
The tactics are being used in the secular culture and in the church to create these oppressor, oppression systems, oppressor, oppressed categories. And the oppressed cannot be wrong. The oppressor's always wrong.
And it has this idea that these, if you're cisgender, you can't talk about these different transgender situations and things like that. If you're a heterosexual, you can't talk about homosexual issues.
If you're white, you can't talk about black issues. If you're rich, you can't talk about poors. If you're a male, you can't talk about female issues. If you don't understand how that's the same exact tactic and it comes from the same place and you're using the same tactics yourself, well, no wonder you don't wanna talk to people like me.
No wonder you don't wanna talk to people like me. Anyway, I'm gonna stop there. We will continue this. This is getting spicy. I hope this is helpful. God bless.
