September 28, 2022 Show with James Reff on “The Sovereignty of God in Salvation”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity

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Living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 28th day of September 2022 first of all, let me thank all of the pastors

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Who continue to contact me in various forms either by email text phone call social media

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Who have been raving about how blessed how thoroughly? Blessed they were in an extraordinary way by attending at my most recent iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania It touches my heart deeply to know that these luncheons continue to Bless in a very deep way men in ministry

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Who attend there for a time of refreshment? for edification from the speaker and this

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Time around we had the privilege of having dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega ministries as our keynote speaker and To have all these men go home with a very heavy sack or two filled with Excellent Christian books brand new books that I have selected personally

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From quite a number of publishers around the United States in the United Kingdom who have been donating these books

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I select from them since the 1990s when my precious late wife

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Julie first launched these Annual luncheons which became eventually biannual luncheons

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And since she has gone home to be with her Lord God Savior King and friend

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Christ Jesus for eternity we have been conducting these luncheons in honor and tribute to her and in loving memory of her and It just blesses me so much to know that Those who attend are always blessed and I look forward to Letting you know when the next one will be taking place

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So there we already have one speaker lined up in October of 2023 but we intend to have one before that and I will get you those details as soon as possible also, if anybody is interested in seeing the video of the debate

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I Can email you the link for that if you send me an email with Chris Arnson at gmail .com

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and I get that to you as soon as possible. Also, I have the videos of all that took place at the pastor's luncheon

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Including the message that was delivered by. Dr. James or white and so I can get you those links as well

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I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest on today His name is James reef pastor of grace community which is a

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Bible Fellowship Church in Chester town, Maryland and Today we're not only going to be addressing the theme the sovereignty of God and salvation

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But we're also going to be promoting the 2022 East Shore reformed conference

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This October which will be held at grace community in Chester town And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron trip and Zion radio

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James reef Yeah, thank you for having me. Well, first of all let our listeners know something about grace community in Chester town,

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Maryland Yeah, so we are on the eastern shore of Maryland as you

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Maybe know or don't know that It Maryland is kind of divided by the Chesapeake Bay And so we are on the eastern side of the shore between the bay and and Delaware our churches right off of Chester towns right off of the

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Chester River, which is a huge river that Flows into the bay. So there's lots of as you can imagine lots of People coming in with summer homes and lots of opportunities for fishing and all sorts of sports and games stuff like that.

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So and Tell us about the theological makeup of this church and maybe a little bit about its history

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I think it's a recent church plan, isn't it? Yeah, we're recent church plan or it's more of a restart

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So we when the Bible Fellowship Church Came here.

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It's about six years ago six or seven years ago About a year before I actually got here it was a

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Was at that time a Southern Baptist Church? And they had gone through some various different changes at one point in time they were more on the

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Armenian side of their Soteriology and then they sort of had a shift changed more to the

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Calvinistic Reformed view of soteriology and then Through a series of events that that sort of shook things up.

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The church was really not probably about 12 people at that time With things and so the

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Bible Fellowship Church came along and was you know looking in the area and through God's province met one of our church planting assistants, his name is

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Ray Burnlett and got in touch with them and It was a good fit doc really and so we

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Had a period of time where we brought different pastors in and then at that point in time

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I was sort of in the mix where I was looking for a call to ministry and Wanting to be a church planner.

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So I was called here in I think it's 2016 to be the church planner here at the

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Bible Fellowship Church in Chestertown and I have a number of friends who are pastors in congregations in The Bible Fellowship Church denomination has a very interesting background,

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I know that You could correct me if I'm misremembering anything, but from what

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I understand the Bible Fellowship Church denomination began as a offshoot of the

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Mennonite Church and then Many of the pastors in that denomination began to be introduced to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace I have heard that a lot of that had to do with pastors going to Westminster Theological Seminary East in the

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Philadelphia area to be Seminary educated and then they've wound up discovering reformed theology and embraced it enthusiastically,

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I also have heard that it is not Universal amongst the

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Bible Fellowship churches to be reformed but there are a very good percentage of them that are am

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I Anything I said that was incorrect there No, we we come from the

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Mennonite roots. I don't know. I'm not I don't know a whole lot of the history

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I'm relatively new to the Bible Fellowship Church. A lot of these guys grew up in the Bible Fellowship Church I did not my entrance in the

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Bible Fellowship Church was this church plant. So I came in about six years ago

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But yeah, we did come from Mennonite roots we had a shift in our Theology, which is amazing that we could go through that and not have a major huge split denominationally came out of that we you know largely because we're very event very evangelistic, you know, and we

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Very much, you know, we're a church planting denomination. So that was some of the issue the issue really other issue was the main issue was the

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Soteriology coming to reform theology as far as the

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Pastors in the BFC. I do not know any there may be

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There were a few people who had some questions or issues that were grandfathered in but to my knowledge, there's no one

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I mean our doctrine is very clearly reformed Particularly, especially in our soteriology.

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We're Calvinistic And I'm not aware of anybody in BFC that would not be in agreement the only the only reason

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I said that is that I did hear that from an elder in a

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Bible Fellowship Church He said that he has encountered some non

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Calvinist pastors and congregations So I don't maybe maybe that was so long ago that he had those encounters that they are no longer in the in the denomination, but that's what yeah,

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I know there's No, I was just gonna say I've never personally met a pastor in your fellowship.

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That is not Calvinist right, yeah, there there is

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There may have been like in the very beginning when things are changing. I think there were a few that were sort of grandfathered in But my understanding is most of those brothers have passed on to be

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Lord and So there may be a few people who are not

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Most people would be you know, strictly five points, but there may be a few within denomination that you know, it might be like a soft five quarter or four points or something like that, but Yeah, I'm not aware of anybody who has not

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You know Calvinistic in there. I think our doctor clearly spells that out.

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So Well, I hope that you if you haven't already I hope that you introduce yourself at some point very soon to pastor

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Josh Miller and pastor Steve Del Duco and Don Mauer who is an elder at the

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Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania I've developed quite a close

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Friendship and relationship with them. I was delighted to see pastor Miller at the

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Iron Trip and Zion radio pastors luncheon last week and I am looking forward to attending the the

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Bible conference that they're having in October I believe and We'll be having him on the program.

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That's pastor Josh Miller God -willing at some point very soon to promote that Do you know those folks over there?

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Yes, I do I know them Not super duper well, you know, like I said having been you know relatively new but yes,

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I do know Josh Miller and Well the if anybody wants more information about This fine congregation where James Reef is the pastor grace community in Chestertown, Maryland You can find them at GC Chestertown org

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GC Chestertown org and you folks are having a

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Bible conference I'm looking forward to being there if I can

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I just discovered it very recently. So I'm going to hope to Rearrange my schedule if anything would be

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Preventing me from attending otherwise, but the 2022 East Shore reform conference and It is on the theme.

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We are discussing today on the show the sovereignty of God in Salvation and it is also featuring a guest speaker that was originally supposed to be on our program tomorrow

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But we have to reschedule because he is having a difficult time

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Squeezing it into his schedule John Curry that is tell us about pastor

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Curry and More about the conference that you're having Yeah, so Yeah, we're excited to have dr.

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Curry come. He's from Westminster Theological Seminary. He's the professor there of pastoral theology

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You can hear, you know, any of his sermons or various different Avenues where he was speaking

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Online but yeah, so we are Having this conference the

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Eastern Shore reforms conference, of course, the theme of the conference is the sovereignty of God In salvation, so we're excited to have him come

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To speak he'll be the keynote speaker during this conference. He'll speak I think once on Friday and then three times there on Saturday really going through You know, obviously a sovereignty of God salvation working his way through the book of Romans starting the first chapter really ending in chapter 9 so we're excited to have him come excited to partner with the

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Alliance and Lord, we'll have a lot of people coming Great, and that's

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October 21st and 22nd at grace Community Church in Chestertown, Maryland And if you want more details on that, you can go to the

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Alliance of confessing evangelicals website That's Alliance net org

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Alliance net org click on events and then you will just have to scroll down till you see the sovereignty of God in salvation

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Eastern Shore Reform Conference 2022 and all the details will be there.

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Well, we have a tradition here in our intrepid Zion radio where whenever we have a

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First -time guest we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere that they may have been raised in if any and What kind of providential

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Circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them and we'd love to hear your story now

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Sure. Yeah, I'd love to tell it So I was My father was in the military

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So I grew up. We moved around a lot. I was born in Fort Knox, Kentucky.

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We moved down to Georgia Fort Stewart for a while and then we

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Settled most of my life. I grew up in Southern, Indiana. Just kind of south of Indianapolis and I grew up in churches, we went to just about any

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Variation of Baptist Church you could think of we went to Southern Baptist we went to Independent Baptist.

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We went to an American Baptist Church So we were just kind of floated around quite a bit in my younger years

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I Remember from a very young age just feeling God's call in my life. I Remember when

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I was seven years old, I was baptized. I believe it was a Southern Baptist Church there at the age of seven and Just really felt a strong call

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And I even from a very young age I felt God called me into ministry I think I preached my first Sermon with the youth group.

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We had like a little a youth Sunday, and I think I was like Probably 12 years old when

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I preached my first sermon. I probably would cringe going back if I could hear it now, but Wow What's that I Said Wow 12 years old preaching your first sermon.

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That's pretty amazing Yeah Yeah, I'm sure but Yeah, so I grew up.

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I can't remember a time really where I didn't you know have faith in God and I Know growing up as when

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I was younger. I did have some struggles and some doubts, you know I was one of those kids that I was a part of a church for my teenage years.

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That was a part of the Word of Life Ministries and so we would Do different kickoffs and different things through Word of Life and you know

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They're big for their rallies and they have different You know like hockey games and different things and we would go to those and every time the gospel was presented

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I would just feel compelled to go up and ask the Lord into my heart again, you know

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And it was just kind of one of those things. I was never really you know, I Put my trust and faith in Christ, but I was never really settled in that it wasn't till I was about 18 years old that I was at a again a

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Word of Life kickoff for the youth group and I heard there's a gentleman named

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Christian Eichlein He came and he preached the gospel and I had heard it many times before I could have articulated it to you

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It was that night that I realized for me for the first time that hey, you know

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This is a decision that I have to make it's not based upon My family not based upon my parents not based upon, you know what?

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They've you know told me happened in the past like I have to make this real and and put my personal faith and trust in Christ and so I did that night with my good friend and And After that, you know,

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I I never had doubts about my salvation after that point and I really consider that You know the point where I came to faith in Christ.

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So and then the Lord Providentially, you know led me to to Bible College.

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I went to actually Word of Life for a year and Then the one in Scroon Lake, New York Yeah, upstate,

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New York, I went to Word of Life there in upstate, New York, yep, and what what what

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How did how did you know? I don't even know if your enrollment in Word of Life Was something that The Lord used to place upon your heart a belief that you were called into the ministry or if it happened before then and that's why you

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Got enrolled in Word of Life. So tell us about how you realized That you had the pastoral call

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Yeah, like I said earlier, you know, I just had always felt it, you know from a very young age

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I just I didn't know specifically where God was gonna call me I didn't know if it's gonna be like missions work or if it was gonna be pastoral work

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You know, but I always felt like God was calling me to that I can't really remember much of a time where God I didn't feel that call

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That's the reason why I went to Word of Life To study the Bible I went there for and got my

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You know Bible certificate as most students do for a year. They have a two -year program too, but I did the one -year program and then

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I transferred to Appalachian Bible College there in West Virginia, so actually

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West Virginia and then I finished my bachelor's degree there

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And How did you get specifically the call to grace a community in Chestertown, Maryland Yeah, that's that's an interesting

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Story, you know, so Probably should give you a little background. So after I Graduated I got married to my my dear wife

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Right out of college, I was I think I've been out of college for like two weeks and we got married And then we stayed in where she's from which is in Maryland.

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She's on the actually the Western side of Maryland Westminster, Maryland So we were we lived there for about a year

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During my college years Appalachian sort of had a rough family life

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During The college years and another year or so before and so I had moved out to Kansas City with a friend and was

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Worked there for his dad doing Just HVAC work. He's only worked like actually was tearing apart air conditioners during the summers for him

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And then I got involved in church there. So after a year we were in in Maryland, I felt like God was calling us to go out

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West to Kansas City to do an internship with that church So we were there one year internship turned into a four -year internship and then after that,

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I took a Job as an assistant pastor at a church there in the same town that we were at and then we felt called back to Maryland because our kids we have four children

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And So we you know, we felt, you know, grandma and grandpa, you know, we're here in Maryland.

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And so we felt like Kids were getting a little bit older. And so we wanted to move back. And so we did

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And the whole time I knew that I wanted to you know, play in a church and so I really just started looking around one of the things that got me connected with the

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Bible Fellowship Church was the a Gettysburg there's a church here

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Adams County Bible Fellowship Church had a church plant there And so I was kind of going online looking see where you know what opportunities there were and I found the

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Bible Fellowship Church and I called them and saw that they had opportunities for church planting.

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And so then I talked to David Dunn from he's the director of church extension which is the head over all of our church planners and then

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Yeah, we just but the Lord brought together they you know, the doctrinally we were in line.

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I was certainly reformed in my understanding and thinking and You know first thing

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I said to him I said, you know, I'm I'm a Calvinist and I believe in reform teaching and so, you know

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It's gonna work then, you know, you're gonna have to know that front and so We would definitely, you know, the

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Lord's working because you know, the Bible Church is certainly there and So then we just it was a process of a few years and then they

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I went through their credentialing process To become a church plan with them and then they called me again.

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It was 2016 to the church here in Chestertown Now, how did you wind up by the sovereignty of God Believing in the sovereignty of God having been educated at Word of Life not known as a bastion of reformed theology

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Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, so neither is Appalachian Bible College in fact,

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I think I remember reading one of my professors wrote on big bold words and his

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His syllabus you cannot be a five -point Calvinist and graduate from Appalachian Bible. Wow So So, yeah, definitely not reforms either one and I think it may be more on the

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Armenian view of things So I was always

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Sympathetic towards those things. I understood when I read like so And I'm not saying that Armenians don't love the scriptures either

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But I always knew that God spoke about election and he spoke about you know, all these you know terms and so I was sort of I was always

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Sympathetic and I think one of the reasons why I was is because when I was in high school, this was back in.

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I Think probably the late 90s early 2000 I was listening to Christian music and I one of my favorite groups was caveman's call and caveman's call most of you may know is a or was a

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Very Straight -out PCA, I believe and very very

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Calvinistic and the songs that they were singing at the time Were really like they were singing

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Calvin, you know Calvinistic theology in their songs. Yeah, I think it was dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who introduced me to caveman's call from my mistake

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Yeah, right I mean my favorite song ever that I listened to quite a bit even now is called thankful by By caveman's call, you know, and it's just chocked full of you know,

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Calvinistic, you know Theology so I was looking at this stuff not really even aware of the fact at the time but it was it was affecting me and affecting my thinking and so later on when

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I After I graduated from Appalachian. I do remember meeting one guy.

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He was the Calvinist at Appalachian. He's a friend of Father a friend we had and You know,

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I just remember after we graduated I was just reading the scriptures and I came across The verse that's all that says the

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Lord does as he pleases and I just remember that struck me I was just like that just stuck in the back of my mind.

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I couldn't like couldn't get past that and I just like For probably a year or so. It just kind of that verse haunted me and I was just like It wasn't

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I read, you know, of course Romans chapter 9 and I started reading this and I just remember one time just setting my

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Bible down. I said Okay, God, like this is what your word says This is not what

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I was taught. But this is what it says and I believe it and that moment in time was like You know, a lot of people say this and but it's true

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Like it was almost like I was born again again Like I could see things in Scripture that I've never seen before like all of a sudden like God sovereignty election

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All those things just began to just pop out of the page and and I remember Seems like every day

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I'd come home to my wife and say hey, you know Mindy listen, you know, look at this I've never seen this before, you know, it's just like it was written all over the scripture, you know

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And so it was it was just a really really cool time in my life Yeah, that seems to be that what seems to be a very very frequently told

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Story about how coming to the doctrines of grace is

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Comparative to a rebirth all it all in itself Right. Yeah, I You know, of course

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I wasn't I still had growing and maturing right? I mean, I didn't really under have a really clear understanding of what you know

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Even the five five points of count in the doctrines of grace really meant I was open to learning more

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In fact, that's where dr. White was really More than anybody helpful to me.

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I worked a job when we came back here to to Maryland when we were in Westminster for a few years before I took on this church plant and I worked a job doing

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HVAC and so we would Get contracts down in in DC. So I would drive every day for several months from Northern, Maryland down to DC which was probably a two to an hour drive if the traffic is good

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And that's each way. So I had about five hours a day To where I was driving so I actually would

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I listen to I think I've listened to every single debate every single

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Dividing line every single thing that dr. White has put out there So I I really got you know

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He was really I credit him to my introduction to reform theology really helped me to really understand

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The issues that state, you know, particularly, you know Limited atonement understanding what that meant particular redemption if you will

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Definite atonement is also one of my preferred ways of describing it Right.

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It's not a hypothetical atonement or redemption It's a definite one Right Christ actually died for a people.

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He actually saved he He completely and in 100 % in perfection

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Accomplished his mission on the cross. Yeah, he actually redeemed those whom he intended to redeem

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Yeah, well, we have to go to our first break right now if anybody listening would like to send in a question

30:26

To my guests today James Reef Which is spelt by the way

30:33

R -e -f -f you might think it is supposed to be spelled or pronounced ref if you see it in print on the internet

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But it is Reef pastor of Grace Community Church in Chestertown Maryland if you have a question for him on the sovereignty of God Our email address is

30:52

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

30:58

As always give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence. Don't go away We'll be right back right after these messages

31:06

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend. Now. I don't have to tell you but American education

31:12

It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system

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The answer it's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed

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That's very distinct from the type of education. Most Americans have received myself included

31:31

And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education

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It's at 7 p .m October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York I'll also be signing copies of my

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New York Times best -selling book battle for the American mind for the first 50 guests starting at 6 p .m

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Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time when it is so desperately

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Needed so please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country you can purchase tickets for the event by visiting

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G Cali G C a l i .com and Following the link to the gala event.

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I hope to see you there James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here

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Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight laugh and feast to the glory of God in Knoxville, Tennessee You'll be enlightened edified encouraged and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme lies propaganda

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F for feast network .com See you there, October 6th through 8th in Knoxville, Tennessee An iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or Switching to the

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NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep

36:55

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

37:02

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Go to NASBible .com

37:13

That's NASBible .com to place your order This Is pastor

37:30

Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

37:40

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Financially Grace Church at Franklin is an independent

37:48

Autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

37:57

Lord Jesus Christ And of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God If you live near Franklin, Tennessee in Franklin is just south of Nashville Maybe ten minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby

38:14

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church Our website is

38:28

Grace Church at Franklin org. That's Grace Church at Franklin org

38:34

This is pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

38:40

Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always

38:56

If You love iron sharpens iron radio one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers one such faithful advertiser who really believes in what

39:09

Chris Hansen is doing is Daniel P Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist

39:16

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written

39:26

Word of God They go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts

39:35

Along with a fascinating presentation by mr. Butter Fuco Demonstrating the reliability of scripture to advance the cause of the gospel

39:44

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

39:55

King James Bible This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

40:11

Tower of Babel and an Explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe

40:20

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more visit historical

40:37

Bible Society dot org that's historical Bible Society Dot org.

40:44

Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air It's such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world

41:07

Here's Joe Riley a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show

41:13

He really loves hearing interviewed. Dr. Joe more craft I'm Joe Riley a faithful iron sharpens iron radio listener here in a tie in County Kildare, Ireland going back to 2005 one of my very favorite guests on iron sharpens iron is dr.

41:30

Joe more craft If you've been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio, dr. More craft and heritage

41:35

Presbyterian Church Of coming Georgia are largely thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters

41:42

Heritage Presbyterian Church of coming is in Forsyth County a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area

41:48

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church Unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and dr

41:54

Joe more craft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism heritage is a member of the

41:59

Hanover Presbyterian Built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

42:09

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the

42:16

Reformers Scripture alone grace alone faith alone Christ alone and God's glory alone

42:22

Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity For more details on heritage

42:27

Presbyterian Church of coming, Georgia visit heritage Presbyterian Church calm That's heritage

42:33

Presbyterian Church calm are called six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one

42:39

That's six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one If you visit tell them

42:45

Joe Riley and iron sharpens iron radio listener and a toy in County Kildare, Ireland sent you

42:54

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in my guest today is

43:00

James Reef He is the pastor of a grace community, which is a

43:05

Bible Fellowship Church in Chestertown, Maryland We are discussing the sovereignty of God and salvation and we are promoting the

43:13

Eastern Shore Reformed Conference this October coming up just in a matter of weeks very soon and If you have a question for him, our email address is

43:23

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com That's CH RIS a

43:30

RN Z and a gmail .com. Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence

43:36

We have Ted in Moundville, Alabama and he asks

43:42

I Realize this question is completely devoid of theological value But did your guest actually traverse the

43:50

Chesapeake Bay Bridge twice a day When he was doing all that community commuting because that bridge has always instilled me a firm reliance on the sovereignty of God and I cannot imagine driving over it every day let alone twice and he describes

44:09

Moundville, Alabama in his Sign off we're putting up with tornadoes is tough, but as far less daunting than driving over the

44:18

Chesapeake Bay Bridge Any answer to that Well, the answer is no not usually so When we first started here,

44:31

I was coming. I would come on Sunday morning Of course, we'd have to drive across the

44:37

Bay Bridge And of course, I was working a full -time job at the same time, so there was a transition period

44:44

I really start full -time. We actually just moved to Chester town and so Wasn't too bad.

44:51

The only time the great Bay Bridge is a huge problem is during the summer months When people are driving to the beach like Ocean City, then you know

45:00

You have to really be careful and watch the times Going across the Bay Bridge because you could very easily add an hour or two to your your commute, so Yeah, I wasn't usually an issue

45:12

Sunday mornings are not usually an issue driving the distance But there were certainly certain times

45:18

That were and you just have to know that and avoid the Bay Bridge at all costs during that time

45:24

So well, thanks for your question Ted and keep Listening and spreading the word about iron trip and Zion radio in Moundville, Alabama and beyond well, let's enter into a discussion on the sovereignty of God something that is a

45:43

Doctrine you and I cherish and I'm assuming the vast majority of my listeners also treasure this doctrine

45:51

I might even add to this as a Premise something that you said in your salvation testimony

46:02

You said that you needed to make a decision and I have heard some of our

46:07

Calvinistic brethren wrongly attacked the idea of a human making a decision when they come to Christ and the issue is

46:20

That we all who have come to Christ do make a decision the the difference between us and those who are not believers in the sovereignty of God is that they believe that a human being is not before Regeneration totally depraved and has enough goodness within them to decide to follow

46:43

Christ apart from regeneration apart from having a new heart And we would strongly

46:52

Disagree with that obviously and say that yes, we do make a decision, but that's because we've been enabled to make a decision that actually leads to salvation

47:04

By virtue of receiving a new heart from Christ himself. Am I Wording it in a way that you would feel comfortable echoing their brother

47:13

Yeah, for sure I would just you know kind of add that that you know, God does not exercise faith for us

47:20

God does not repent for us. We repent we Exercise faith in Christ.

47:26

We embrace God's mercy through the cross only in and only because of what God first did in us so God opens our eyes to the new birth and that's solely a work that he does alone apart from us in any way shape or He opens our eyes causes the dead

47:44

Those who are dead in their trespasses and sins to be made alive Have I to see

47:49

God's kingdom have eyes to enter and because of that that we Embrace the mercy of Christ through repentance and through faith and that is you know, we do that It's God's the gifts of faith and the gifts of repentance are gifts that God gives to us but we

48:09

Are we Exercise faith in Christ and we are we repent their commands that were called to do so I Would agree wholeheartedly.

48:19

Yeah. Yeah most reformed people I know especially if they're in ministry Acknowledged that but there are some

48:28

Perhaps even most of whom are in the cage stage Calvinist phase whose whose theology is sloppy and And they want to eradicate anything that has even the appearance of Arminianism from the vocabulary even if it's biblical

48:47

So we have to be careful about that in fact, I Remember years ago being in the sanctuary of a church that had recently transformed into a reformed church

49:05

Having previously in fact for many decades I think it the church was over a century old

49:13

It was an Arminian Church, although they would never call themselves that likely but right above the

49:22

The baptismal tank there was a huge plaque

49:30

That said whosoever will may come and Whosoever will let him take the water of life freely and I remember the pastor saying

49:40

We're probably gonna take that black down. I said why it's from the book of Revelation for crying out loud.

49:47

It's God breathe So, you know, it's a hyper

49:52

Calvinism is a danger. So just thought I'd throw that out there Tell us how you would

50:01

Approach the subject of the sovereignty of God and salvation With someone who perhaps has never even heard of the concept before That would include me

50:12

When I as a Roman Catholic Had left the

50:18

Roman Catholic Church and was visiting churches here and there and finally in the church that I would eventually

50:26

Where I would eventually be baptized and become a member I heard these things Called the sovereignty of God or the doctrines of grace

50:35

For the very first time never heard them as a Catholic never heard them bouncing around at various Arminian churches, and it was really

50:45

Frightening and baffling to me. So if you could just for a couple of minutes Give us your approach on that.

50:54

Well, my approach would be Just to start with, you know the first point, you know of the of the two, you know total depravity, right until we understand

51:04

That's that's really foundational to understanding our need is to understanding that We are totally depraved.

51:12

In other words sin Permeates every aspect of our being our minds our wills every aspect of our being is affected by by Adam by the fall and A lot of people like to think that they have this

51:31

You know that they are autonomous that they have the right in themselves to choose or to do certain things

51:37

I would just point to the fact the scriptures tells us that we are all dead in sin, right that that There's nothing in a side of us in of ourselves that we could ever do to advance ourselves towards towards God, right?

51:52

Total total depravity means we have no inclination no desire To do the things of God because we are we're dead

51:59

We are in the flesh. It's not until God quickens us through the power of the

52:06

Holy Spirit to cause us to be born again that we then are given the Spirit nature where we can then respond to God through faith.

52:15

So until a person sees their need their total depravity that they are Totally without merit before God I think a lot of people and I learned this from dr.

52:27

White, but You know see grace as something that you know God deserves to give me grace

52:36

But I've heard him say over and over again that destroys the idea of grace grace is something that has to be free to give it

52:41

And it's not something that can be demanded from anyone and so we say that Salvation is truly a gift of God's grace so That's where I would start.

52:54

I would I would take them to the you know, show them You know just like I would with anybody that I'm out on the street, you know funny evangelizing somebody

53:01

I Take them to the wall. I try to show them just the depravity, you know the the

53:08

Exceeding simpleness of sin, you know, just how wretched we really are and Then once they understand that If they do then they their hearts are then right for Understanding the gospel and understanding how our salvation actually came to us

53:24

And in fact, we have to pick up where you left off when we return We have to go to our midway break right now If anybody has a question send it to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

53:32

Chris Arnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence Please be patient with us as this break is the longer than normal break in the middle of the show.

53:42

Don't go away We'll be right back Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend now,

53:49

I don't have to tell you but American education It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system

53:58

The answer it's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed that's very distinct from the type of education most

54:07

Americans have received myself included and That's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful Growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education.

54:22

It's at 7 p .m October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York I'll also be signing copies of my

54:29

New York Times best -selling book battle for the American mind for the first 50 guests starting at 6 p .m

54:36

Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of Education at a time when it is so desperately needed

54:44

So, please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country you can purchase tickets for the event by visiting

54:54

G Cali GC a Li .com and following the link to the gala event.

55:00

I hope to see you there Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon?

55:06

And the Sunday school classroom or the small group study So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study

55:14

God's Word in those smaller settings Well, let's be honest. It leaves a lot to be desired

55:20

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today That is true to the

55:25

Word of God and it's built upon sound doctrine Much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the

55:33

Bible Hi there, my name is Jordan too, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound

55:44

Bible study resources Our quarterly curriculum is titled the Baptist expositor and for good reason

55:50

We are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures if you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the

55:57

Word of God I invite you go to our website download a free study Baptist publishing house .com.

56:04

May God bless you I'm dr.

56:12

Joseph Piper President emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary Every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and the

56:24

Westminster standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

56:31

Westminster larger catechism titled Authentic Christianity by dr. Joseph more craft.

56:38

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism It is a thoroughly researched work

56:43

Utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology

56:48

Dr. Moore craft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia And I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation

57:00

For details on the eight -volume commentary go to Westminster commentary calm Westminster commentary calm for details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia Visit Heritage Presbyterian Church calm

57:15

Heritage Presbyterian Church calm Please tell dr. Moore craft and the

57:21

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia That dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary I When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

57:46

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

57:59

NASB I'm author Gary DeMar president of American vision and the

58:05

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Dan LeBennett of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York And the

58:12

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters ministries and the

58:19

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Reverend buzz Taylor author of God's Lawson and the

58:25

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm dr. William Webster pastor of Grace Bible Church and Battleground, Washington founder of the ministry

58:35

Christian resources The NASB is my Bible of choice

58:40

I'm pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York And the

58:45

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia And the

58:54

NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air

59:02

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the

59:09

NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio

59:15

Go to NAS Bible calm. That's NAS Bible calm to place your order

59:31

If You love iron sharpens iron radio One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers

59:40

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

59:46

Daniel P Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist

59:52

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society their mission

59:57

To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God They go to various churches schools and institutions

01:00:06

To publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by mr.

01:00:13

Butter Fuco Demonstrating the reliability of Scripture to advance the cause of the gospel

01:00:19

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ From the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

01:00:30

King James Bible This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

01:00:47

Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the Genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe

01:00:56

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more visit historical

01:01:13

Bible Society dot -org That's historical Bible Society dot -org

01:01:19

Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air I'm dr.

01:01:33

Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York Pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram Who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his

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01:06:40

Before I return to my guest today James Reef And our discussion on the sovereignty of God and salvation

01:06:48

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Financially stable and back on your feet again before you give us a financial gift those two things are commands of God in Scripture Providing for your church and providing for your family providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God but if you love the show you have money collecting interest in the bank you have money for benevolent and Recreational and trivial matters, please share some of that money with us so that we can continue to survive

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Christ honoring biblically faithful doctrinally sound Theologically solid church like grace community in Chestertown, Maryland.

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I have lists of Biblically faithful churches spanning the globe and I have helped many people in our audience in all parts of the world find churches sometimes even within just a few minutes of where they live and I may be able to help you find a church as well

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Send me an email to Chris arms in a gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line

01:09:31

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to James reef our guest today Pastor of grace community in Chestertown, Maryland.

01:09:40

We are discussing the sovereignty of God in salvation And our email address is

01:09:45

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:09:52

We have an anonymous listener Who wants to know what do you find to be the biggest?

01:10:00

Objections to the sovereignty of God and salvation When you are either trying to instruct

01:10:08

Christians of this truth or when you are evangelizing the lost and I am currently

01:10:14

Involved in a conflict with the very church where I am a member over these issues Yeah, that's a great question

01:10:23

I would say the number one issue is that the sovereignty of God Flies in the face of human autonomy like we want to be in control.

01:10:31

We want to View if we want to have control of our salvation We want to think that we have a part in it that it's it's us that we can either accept it or reject it in of ourselves,

01:10:43

I think that and I think You know, I'm an evangelist at heart. So my every

01:10:49

Saturday, you'll see me out at the marketplace, you know Passing out gospel tracts and sharing the gospel and you and The main objection that I get even just to the gospel

01:11:02

Is just People minimize their own spin. They just want to see themselves as better than they really are.

01:11:09

They don't truly understand how The praise they really are like how bad their sin really is.

01:11:16

It's rebellion and Beholden righteous God, so I'd say there's a two main main objections from there.

01:11:22

They're very, you know connected the human autonomy and Just minimizing our own simpleness

01:11:29

Yeah, and in my own experience also There is there are two issues

01:11:36

There are those That are seeking to defend the justice of God and the love of God and They think that for him to only intentionally rescue a portion of humanity

01:11:59

And leaving all others to be condemned by their own sin. They somehow think that is

01:12:05

Unjust and they also would say that is unloving well As far as the loving aspect, there's nothing in the scriptures that teaches that God loves every single human equally

01:12:19

In fact, I can remember a dear friend of mine who is a vehemently anti Calvinist fundamentalist

01:12:25

Baptist pastor Brought up that very issue with me once and said one of the things

01:12:32

I dislike most about Calvinism Is that you teach that God loves some people more than others and I responded to him so you believe that God loves you to the same measure as Someone who will spend an eternity in hell.

01:12:49

I said, how does that make sense? And He really didn't have an answer for that Even there there are even reformed people who will say that God does love all of humanity

01:13:02

But they would never say that he loves them all in the same way He does not love all of humanity as a parent or as a spouse

01:13:14

Those are unique ways that God only loves his elect. Am I right on that? I Would say yes,

01:13:22

I mean God has a special calling an election for Those whom he has chosen from the foundations of the world.

01:13:29

There is a general call to humanity You know all men

01:13:36

For you know, whether I think of the scriptures Jews or Gentiles or you know, the nation's the world

01:13:42

We're caught he calls us to the general called repentance But there's a specific calling where God has chosen

01:13:51

Chosen for election so yeah, and some of it is just a misunderstanding of Scripture and they're not applying

01:14:03

The way that the scriptures use words Consistently and logically with the whole counsel of God and they will take a verse like Revelation 22 17 typically from the

01:14:19

King James Version not always but and say in the spirit and the bride say come and Let him that heareth say come and let him that is a thirst come and whosoever will

01:14:32

Let him take the water of life freely and they think somehow That that phrase whosoever will means anyone and everyone is capable and those two things

01:14:44

Aren't the same thing. It just means Anyone who wants to let him take the water of life freely and I have sometimes used as an analogy if I was standing before a crowd of people and You had in that crowd

01:15:03

Orthodox Jews Muslims and Christians and I said

01:15:11

Anybody who wants to may come to my pig roast that I'm having this afternoon.

01:15:16

Who's gonna want to? the the people that don't have a religious dietary prohibition to eating that food or Even if they wanted to in their heart of hearts, maybe they were salivating smelling

01:15:34

The pig roast but they still wouldn't if they were being faithful to their respective religions

01:15:39

And of course, you might even have some Christians that don't like big that didn't want to come or they're vegetarians or something but it's it's still when you hear something like that, it makes sense that You're making you're giving an invitation but People are going to respond differently to that invitation by their nature and it is very clear from Romans and other places that man in the flesh cannot please

01:16:10

God and if Coming to Christ in repentance and saving faith is pleasing to God Obviously someone who is still dead in their trespasses and sins and still in their flesh

01:16:25

They cannot freely do that they cannot please God in that way so anything you want to add to that Well, I mean just really

01:16:36

As you were talking notice. I was reminded of the fact that you know Romans 9 speaks exactly to this like Paul is actually kind of anticipating his objectors in in Romans 9

01:16:48

Yes, says what then shall we say is there injustice on to God's part by no means?

01:16:55

He says for for he says the most I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I don't have compassion upon him

01:17:01

I will have compassion So it does not depend on human will or exertion, but on God that mercy and then you know again verse 19

01:17:10

He again is anticipating that when they say you will then save me Why did he still find fault with me who can resist his will?

01:17:18

And then he goes into the example of the potters and has not the Potter right over the clay You know, basically

01:17:23

Paul's answer is you know, who are you to answer back to God for doing what he does? You know we we look at this and we think

01:17:30

God is unjust because he chooses one over the other and But the reality is we should be

01:17:36

You know the fact that Jesus Christ what's really unjust the fact that Christ God sent his son

01:17:42

Jesus Christ to take the place of sinners Like you know,

01:17:47

I'm saying like we should be God is not unjust if he for condemning every single person to hell but the fact that Christ who was the sinless

01:17:59

Son of God came into the world and Took the place of sinners We should be that that should you know

01:18:09

Why aren't people you know, why is that why aren't people crying out in justice and that here's this sinless son of God who took upon himself the sins of the world so You know, we want to cry we want to think that we deserve

01:18:23

You know grace that we deserve, you know an opportunity. Well God is

01:18:29

God is never going to be In any way I'm just Amen, you receive

01:18:38

God the ones who receive condemnation Anybody who sees condemnation receives justice some receive justice others receive mercy, but but no one receives injustice and For the

01:18:53

Armenian or anyone that is outside of Reformed Christianity because I know that probably the greater number of people who are not reformed

01:19:04

Do not call themselves Armenian. There are some That have no problem with identifying themselves with that label but in especially amongst

01:19:13

Baptists, you will hardly find any that would actually call themselves in Armenian, but according to their understanding of The Nature of man and The the fact that they would view man as sick but not dead

01:19:35

They would view Him as partially crippled by sin, but not totally depraved

01:19:44

And they would believe that before they receive a new heart from God before they are born again

01:19:50

They are capable of doing something that pleases God And that would include repenting and believing now if that is true

01:20:00

Paul's comments in Romans 9 How can

01:20:06

God find fault for who could resist as well those comments that he

01:20:13

Predicted if you will would be the response from those hearing his teaching about election

01:20:18

How does that even make sense? Why would he even say that I'm making sense here?

01:20:24

Yeah Anything further you want to say No, I think we

01:20:32

I think we've Hopefully address the question Yeah, certainly just just the fact that we have to understand that none of us deserve

01:20:44

Grace, none of us deserve any of it God is not in any way shape or form or ever will be unjust and anything he does

01:20:52

He's just in and good and right in condemning sinners to hell and he's gracious and Merciful to to some and so there's no injustice there at all and The the complaint that you often hear from the non -reformed

01:21:11

Even from those that are not Universalists and I'm talking about full -blown

01:21:17

Universalists who believe every single human will go to heaven and there are some that would even say the devil

01:21:22

This is going to heaven But They they hate the thought that There are people who are doomed

01:21:36

Without any chance of becoming saved and They even though they wouldn't say it this way if you're talking about a conservative evangelical who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture They wouldn't say that a person deserves heaven

01:21:54

But the way they think and function and apply their theology it would almost be deduced from what they say

01:22:03

They would they you know that in their understanding how cruel could God be to not rescue everybody we believe he only rescues a portion of humanity that he chooses not because of anything that we think say or do but because of his love and mercy upon a certain particular peculiar people the very ones for whom he died and They somehow in their minds.

01:22:31

They think that our Concept of God makes him

01:22:37

Cruel and tyrannical and yet they think somehow it is more merciful for God to Allow humanity to live in a world

01:22:51

Where they have the influences of the world the flesh and the devil Pulling at them trying to prevent them to come to Christ bow the knee in repentance

01:23:05

They think that is somehow merciful for us in the long run to do so in our own strength

01:23:13

As many a false teacher On the radio and television has said

01:23:19

God's done everything he can do for you It's all up to you now, and that is somehow more merciful and more gracious and especially

01:23:29

When you're talking about people who are born and raised perhaps in the Middle East under Sharia law

01:23:36

Where coming to Christ would mean they're sure execution or Even in the

01:23:42

United States not everybody is raised in a loving Christian home by dedicated Christian parents there are people who are raised by prostitutes and drug addicts and and hateful cruel people but not everybody has an equal playing field in it and as if the the enemy or the opposer to the doctrines of grace when they

01:24:05

Talk about the fairness of their understanding and the unfairness of the reformed understanding

01:24:12

How is that fair when nobody or should I say not everyone on the earth is coming from an equal playing field?

01:24:20

Does that make sense? Yeah, right. I mean really,

01:24:26

I Mean the consistent view is a reformed understanding of God and his justice and his grace and mercy.

01:24:32

I mean, I'm Again, I mean Armenians, you know, many of them are dear brothers and sisters in Christ, you know

01:24:40

But I just think they're inconsistent in their understanding of their you know

01:24:47

Understanding grace understanding of how our salvation came to us I mean, I think the the truly universal is to believe everybody there at least somewhat more consistent than you know the

01:24:57

Armenian but Even at our even in Armenian would not you know, they would say that yes, there are people going to hell

01:25:06

Not everybody is going to be saved. It's just the question is You know as from the reformed perspective we're just saying, you know,

01:25:14

God is the author God is the one who from start to finish is his sovereign choice and Who are we as human beings cry out to God foul for what he does, you know

01:25:25

God is if he's sovereign. He truly is sovereign even over the salvation of men and that's really what we're saying is that God is

01:25:35

God is the author of our salvation and I believe that all the non -reformed those who

01:25:42

Reject the sovereignty of God over salvation They are inconsistent

01:25:49

And it is a blessed inconsistency very typically that when a loved one of theirs dies without Christ when it is

01:26:02

Certain that this person they might even be with that person when they are dying and they are even cursing

01:26:08

Christ until they take the last breath they do not typically

01:26:13

I'm not saying that nobody does but Typically in Armenian a non -reformed

01:26:20

Christian will not blame himself For the rest of their lives and be tormented

01:26:26

By sleepless nights if I only gave that loved one the gospel one more time if I only was more loving and patient when

01:26:36

I gave the gospel if I was only more biblically knowledgeable when I gave the gospel if I only

01:26:42

Did kinder things to that person so that they would see the love of Christ in me

01:26:47

You could go on and on and on and torment yourself To the point where you want to commit suicide if you are

01:26:55

If you're going to be consistent About how that person it was to have come to Christ whereas the reformed person although Obviously even reformed people grieve and sometimes in agony when a lost person that they love

01:27:12

Departs from this earth into a Christ list eternity We can at least When the dust settles

01:27:20

Remember will not the God of all the earth will not the judge of all the earth do what is right we can know that God's sovereign control over all things is where we place our trust and he has mercy on whom he has mercy and He pardons whom he will pardon and his wrath is poured upon those he chooses making sense here

01:27:47

Yeah, no, I and I was kind of to add to that sort of that piggyback off what you said.

01:27:53

I love J. I Packard's book evangelism a sovereignty of God in that book in the first chapter,

01:27:59

I believe he argues that Tries to prove that even the Armenian understands and knows that God is sovereign.

01:28:06

So when they pray they're praying for a loved one They don't pray, you know

01:28:11

God, you know, let this person save himself. No, they pray God save this person

01:28:16

So even in their prayers they understand and know at least in some sense that God is sovereign over that because they pray

01:28:24

That God would open their eyes that God would give them understanding and that they might receive them, you know

01:28:30

So even the Armenians, I think just you know, I like I said there I have many dear brothers and sisters in Christ through our minions, but their view is just inconsistent

01:28:41

And only the Reformed can consistently and logically say I owe 100 % of the praise honor and glory for my salvation to the triune

01:28:56

God They can't even though nearly every Every conservative evangelical

01:29:05

Bible believing Christian who is not Reformed would say that I don't know of any who would if you asked him do you would give a hundred percent of the praise honor and glory to the triune

01:29:18

God to Jesus Christ his death burial and resurrection for your salvation

01:29:25

Typically and in fact, I've never heard somebody say anything to the contrary. Typically they would say yes, of course, but If they're logically consistent, that is not true

01:29:36

No matter how much they may protest to the idea that they are taking credit at least some of the credit

01:29:43

For themselves, it's undeniable that they are and they're giving also credit to other individuals apart from God All right in some sense, you know, like I think dr.

01:29:57

White uses this illustration by the illustration of a bridge You know if you're building a bridge You know with if God does 90 % of building that bridge and you lay 10 %

01:30:08

In some way shape or form you've contributed. Therefore you have sort of the trump card, right?

01:30:13

You're the one who is you know, whether it's 1 % or 10 % or 50 % right?

01:30:20

What it does is it undermines the true sacrifice innate that's true nature of the sacrifice of Christ.

01:30:26

It was a perfect Sacrifice Hebrews, I think it's 1014 says, you know, he's able to save them to the uttermost for those who are being sanctified, you know

01:30:37

We're just saying God does it from start to finish right not that we don't in some sense when we like we exercise faith

01:30:44

When we repent we are we're cooperating right? We are you're repenting we have faith, but it's

01:30:49

God Who is the author of that and without God? Acting upon us we would never

01:30:56

Have any inclination or volition or will or desire to do any of those things because we're dead in our sin

01:31:02

Incapable really total gravity feels the idea that we are in capable of doing anything

01:31:08

To appease God or to advance ourselves towards him for salvation And let's be honest here.

01:31:14

Also one of the reasons why there are many people who have not yet Eagerly embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace aka

01:31:23

Calvinism and reformed theology is because many of us those in our camp that identify themselves as Calvinists are

01:31:33

Colossal idiots and I don't even mean by that that they're stupid or unintelligent

01:31:40

They may be even brilliant, but there are many among us and I'm not saying that we corner the market on it

01:31:45

I know plenty of arrogant proud Nasty bitter hateful elitist

01:31:52

Arminians But those that are reformed who may be accurately described that way have no excuse

01:31:59

Because the doctrines of sovereign grace clearly are meant to exalt

01:32:05

God and humble man to the dust and any of us that are proud and arrogant and Acting as if we came to the knowledge of these things through our own brilliance and intellect.

01:32:19

We're actually Contradicting the very things we say we believe Well we have to go to our final break

01:32:28

It's going to be briefer than the other breaks if you have a question for my guest today

01:32:33

James reef on the sovereignty of God in Salvation perhaps you even have a question on the upcoming conference our email address is

01:32:39

Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com don't go away. We're gonna be right back after these messages

01:32:46

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and friends weekend now. I don't have to tell you but American education

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It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system the answer

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It's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed That's very distinct from the type of education most

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Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time when it is so desperately

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and following the link to the gala event. I hope to see you there Satan is the father of lies and spin and the mother of those lies is a government who has rejected

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Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight laugh and feast to the glory of God in Knoxville, Tennessee You'll be enlightened edified encouraged and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme lies propaganda

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Uh, we are now back with our final segment, uh with my guest james reef

01:49:04

Pastor of grace community a bible fellowship church in chestertown, maryland. We are talking about the sovereignty of god and salvation and we have uh joseph and south central pennsylvania who wants to know

01:49:16

What are the best books that you can recommend that teach reform theology?

01:49:23

That I can learn it better and also Give these books to others that they may be able to better understand these teachings

01:49:32

Oh, yeah Um, that's a great question. I have on my shelf here. I've got a book that I think is um, it's written not too long ago, actually

01:49:43

Just a few years ago by jim scott or it called near calvinism It's playing on c .s.

01:49:50

Lewis's book Um, but um, I think it's a great book it Really, you know explains well

01:49:57

In ways that um, you know people can understand the doctrines of grace. So I would recommend that one near calvinism

01:50:04

Is one of them by john scott bork? You know, there are lots of other books too.

01:50:10

I think um, just like introductory level stuff, um scroll has got uh

01:50:17

Several books, um get it mixed up. It's the holiness of god. I think it's what it's called um so Those are a few books that I would

01:50:26

I would say would would recommend I would I would I would heartily recommend the potter's freedom by dr.

01:50:34

James r white Yep, uh, the full title is the potter's freedom a rebuttal to norman geisler and uh

01:50:45

Well, actually it's a defense of the reformation and a rebuttal to norman geisler's chosen but free uh

01:50:52

Norman geisler knows better now that he is in eternal bliss with christ Uh would never write that book now, uh chosen but free but dr.

01:51:02

White masterfully Dissected it and disproved it and even if you've never heard of norman geisler or his book.

01:51:11

It's an excellent book teaching the doctrines of sovereign grace and I love

01:51:19

Uh, dr. Ken gentry's commendation for it He calls uh, dr.

01:51:25

White's book chosen but free a modern -day antidote to arminianism and uh

01:51:30

It certainly is I would strongly recommend that Uh, one of the best treatments

01:51:36

I have ever heard Uh is a five -part audio.

01:51:42

Well, it was an audio tape series Obviously the younger folks listening have no idea what

01:51:48

I i'm even talking about uh, they later put them on cds but uh, my friend fred zaspel uh, he uh is a calvinist baptist and a real brilliant brother an author and the folks

01:52:09

At grace reform baptist church of long island americ. That's not where fred Uh preaches and teaches he's not even a member there but years ago

01:52:20

I uh was so impressed by that tape series that when I was a member of grace reform baptist church of long island americ

01:52:28

I asked them to make duplicates of this tape series and they when the technology

01:52:39

Got better over the years. They did burn cds with those five sermons that fred zappel preached

01:52:47

He actually is uh, just to let you know, he's on the staff the pastoral staff at the reformed baptist church of frank coney at pennsylvania but uh

01:52:55

If you contact grace reform baptist church, they likely still are able to make cds of those messages they might even be doing them on mp3 now

01:53:06

Uh, the the one who was in charge of the audio Department at grace reform baptist church was dane morgan and i'm assuming it still is

01:53:17

But if not, uh, if you're having a hard time finding this five point, uh, this five part tape series or should

01:53:24

I say sermon series? Contact me at chrisarnson at gmail .com But you can also try contacting dane morgan in the audio department at grace reform baptist church .org

01:53:37

grace reform baptist church .org and You can also email me for many other suggestions on excellent resources

01:53:48

Uh, one of the best things i've ever seen in my life Is a dvd series called amazing grace the history and theology of calvinism

01:53:57

It still will be extremely useful to you, but unfortunately the

01:54:04

The gentleman who hosts those dvds has abandoned

01:54:10

The the gospel of the reformation and has become eastern orthodox My mind is blown by that But we have to pray for that brother eric holmberg

01:54:23

Because that's a very serious departure from truth But anyway, uh, do you have any final words in summary form that you'd like to say about the sovereignty of god and salvation?

01:54:34

um Yeah, no, I just uh Really? We're just excited about the conference coming up and we hope people will come and uh here

01:54:43

Dr. Curry, I think he's going to be excellent in this conference. So, um,

01:54:48

Yeah, I encourage everybody to come out october 20 come out to chestertown if you're interested in coming out to chestertown, um, there's lots of different um

01:54:57

Venues here chestertown. It's a very quaint a historic place There's lots of different neat little shops to come and if you're inclined you can

01:55:06

Uh, you know rent boats and different things and do stuff on the water um, there's just lots of really, uh, cool neat things to uh, so it'd be a great way if you're

01:55:17

Married and you want to bring your wife and uh stay in a bed and breakfast or or do something like that I'm sure you would enjoy that so Uh, there's lots of great things to do after the conference the conference ends on saturday afternoon

01:55:29

It gives you a little bit of time to explore if anybody is inclined Yeah, we're really excited excited to partner with the alliance and um, hope you guys are able to come out

01:55:40

Yeah, and the two websites, uh that you should take note of Uh, first of all the website of my guest today

01:55:50

Who I have thoroughly enjoyed interviewing uh The website for the church where he serves as pastor

01:55:59

Is g c chestertown .org Gc chestertown .org

01:56:07

And you can get all the information that you need on that fine church there also If you want to go to the alliance of confessing evangelicals website, they are as my guest just mentioned partnering partnering

01:56:20

Uh with grace community church in chestertown, maryland The website is alliancenet .org

01:56:29

Alliancenet .org and you click on events and just keep scrolling until you see eastern shore reformed conference 2022 the sovereignty of god in salvation

01:56:42

And once again, the dates are october 21st through the 22nd And this will feature guest speaker john curry

01:56:50

And I am looking forward to hopefully getting dr. Curry on this program before this event

01:56:58

As I said, he was supposed to be our guest tomorrow But had to reschedule doing due to a conflict in his own schedule.

01:57:06

So we'll be keeping you updated on when Dr. Curry Can join us?

01:57:14

If that is at all possible Uh, I also want to remind you about the the fundraising

01:57:25

Gala that is being Hosted by my former church where I was a member on long island before moving to pennsylvania grace reform baptist church of long island america they are

01:57:40

Hosting a gala for grace christian academy Uh, this is a classical christian school and on Saturday october 15th at 7 p .m.

01:57:53

At the melville marriott on long island pete hegseth of fox news

01:57:59

Will be the keynote speaker For this fundraiser. I am going to make every effort to be there myself

01:58:06

I really enjoyed uh interviewing pete hegseth Uh this past monday of this week on the 26th just a few days ago

01:58:18

Uh, he he was a real or or should I say is a real sharp brother

01:58:24

And that was very clearly demonstrated during his interview with me On monday and that that recording is now up on the iron sharpens iron radio website iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:58:35

so you can Hear my interview with pete. I hope that is just one of many more in the future and uh

01:58:44

I hope that uh, you folks will tune in tomorrow as well We have ernie zara

01:58:51

Returning to the program. Dr. Ernest j. Zara the third Author blogger educator and member of the national association of scholars.

01:59:00

He's addressing one of his books a very important book America's sex culture its impact on teacher student relationships today

01:59:09

That will be tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio So please join us 4 to 6 p .m.

01:59:17

Eastern time for that discussion once again brother, uh

01:59:22

James ref thank you so much for doing such a wonderful job today on my program. I want to thank everybody who listened today

01:59:30

Uh, especially those who wrote in questions, I want to thank Laura moses of the alliance of confessing evangelicals who put me in contact with james ref reef.

01:59:41

I'm, sorry And uh, I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior