December 27, 2023 Show with Mark Chanski on “Burying Grudges” PLUS Jason Contino on “Sola Scriptura: The Bulwark Against All False Religion”

Iron Sharpens Iron

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December 28, 2023

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.
00:57: And now here's your host Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon
01:09: Cumberland County Pennsylvania Lake City Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:14: Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com
01:20: this is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 27th day of December 2023.
01:30: I'm so thrilled to have two of my friends on the program. First Mark Chansky who is our guest for the first hour.
01:41: He is an ordained minister and coordinator of reformbaptistnetwork .com
01:48: and we're going to be addressing during the first hour burying grudges and joining me during the first hour as my co -host is my dear friend
02:00: Jason Contino pastor of Harborview Christian Church of Port Jefferson New York and he will be continuing on as my guest during the second hour and our theme for our number two will be
02:14: Sola Scriptura the bulwark against all false religion. But first of all welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor
02:23: Mark Chansky. Thanks so much Chris I always enjoy when I can spend an hour or two with you.
02:30: You've been a great blessing to me personally in the kingdom I'm thankful for your labors.
02:36: Well thank you very much brother and tell our listeners about Reform Baptist Network. Well the
02:42: Reform Baptist Network is a association of churches who embrace the 1689
02:50: Baptist confession and we are dedicated to the theme of joining together for fellowship that we might take the gospel according to the
03:03: Great Commission to the ends of the earth and we have churches gathering together for the purpose of building each other up individually strengthening our churches but then to be able to corporately gather together and send out missionaries it's difficult oftentimes for one church to do the heavy lifting to send a missionary off to oh let's say
03:32: Indonesia it may cost $90 ,000 a year to subsidize missionary but one church can't provide the full 90 ,000 so maybe if you get nine churches who could provide 10 ,000 so we provide that church based support so that we can send missionaries off again we want to make sure that men who are being sent off as missionaries embrace a common confession of faith so we think of the 1689 is that common basis and then the churches that would be planted in distant places would have the blueprint of the 1689 confession and then also we plant churches not only globally but also in the
04:16: USA here so as a network we are sharpening each other as iron sharpens iron and we're seeking to take the gospel to the ends of the earth our goal would be that the knowledge of the glory of the
04:31: Lord would cover the earth as the waters cover the sea Habakkuk 2 praise God and welcome also back to the program my co -host for the first hour pastor
04:41: Jason Contino of Harborview Christian Church in Port Jefferson Long Island and if you could pastor
04:49: Jason inform our listeners about Harborview Christian Church yes
04:56: Harborview Christian Church is a non -denominational Christian Church in the
05:04: Baptist tradition and I happen to be a self -identified as a
05:10: Reformed Baptist pastor so I have a lot of questions for for Mark about his network and and how that would work for a church search such as mine which
05:20: I think perhaps a lot of our listeners either belong to or might be pastors of great and if anybody wants to find out more about Harborview Christian Church go to their website
05:30: Harborview Christian Church I'm sorry Harborview Christian Church Harborview Christian Church well pastor
05:40: Chansky I was very edified by watching and listening to a sermon by the way folks it is available on YouTube if you type in the
05:53: YouTube search engine Mark Chansky C -H -A -N -S -K -I and the sermon title burying grudges that sermon that I viewed today and that listened to will come up and I strongly urge you to do that but the focus of our discussion for the first hour will be on the theme of burying grudges and you derive your theme from Proverbs 19 verse 11 if you wouldn't mind reading that for our listeners yeah yeah you can look that up on sermon audio
06:30: Proverbs 19 11 I think the title is overlooking offenses in burying grudges
06:37: I think one of the locations would be I appreciate Minden Nevada about a year ago and the text is
06:46: Proverbs 19 11 where it says a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and it's his glory to overlook a transgression and you know we as Reformed and Baptist people
07:01: I think when it comes to issues of forgiveness oftentimes the default passage we initially turn to should
07:10: I forgive someone is maybe a Luke 17 three words of if your brother sins rebuke him and if he repents forgive him and if he sins against you seven times a day and returns to you seven times saying
07:31: I repent forgive him and oftentimes we say okay
07:36: I'm willing to forgive someone if they will repent but you know
07:42: Chris oftentimes that text can be used as a self -serving club that we wield in order to coerce the person that we have in a disagreement with come around to our viewpoint and our interpretation of what took place on disputable matters whereas I don't think that's the whole counsel of God when we consider the whole larger theme of forgiveness because that text in Proverbs 19 11 is so crucial as a important puzzle piece a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and it's his glory to overlook a transgression here it is it's
08:32: December 27 and I'm thinking that there are a number of people involved in extended family relationships who are bearing grudges and justifying those grudges that's why
08:45: I didn't maybe go to a Christmas family reunion because there's a person who'd be sitting at the
08:53: Christmas table banquet and they haven't yet repented and so I'm not going to forgive them and so I'm going to continue in alienation it reminds me of how we had a puzzle being put together last night by extended family we had all three of my daughters -in -law and my son and another son were working on this puzzle and they get down to just about the end and there was one piece missing they couldn't find the last piece and finally they found it under the table well likewise when it comes to this issue of forgiveness
09:31: I think this Proverbs 19 11 gives a crucial piece but oftentimes when it comes to relationships and forgiveness and transgressions this is a puzzle piece that's been it's fallen under the table for some thanks for some it's even been hidden in the pocket because they just don't want to we just don't want to forgive unless people come around to our view of things again you think of that text a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and it's his glory to overlook a transgression and if you if you heard the sermon
10:08: Chris you heard how I opened it up with an account about Abraham Lincoln yes fascinating yeah in the mid 1950s there was an important patent case that was coming to Chicago and it was a guy named
10:24: George Harding who was a patent specialist for a distinguished law firm in Philadelphia he employed
10:31: Lincoln for the case and then after receiving an initial sum of money from the firm Lincoln got to work on the legal arguments of the case but then shortly after that the case was transferred to Cincinnati and the law firm decided to use a guy named
10:45: Edward Stanton instead as the attorney but you know no texting in those days so they never told
10:51: Lincoln about the change but for months then Lincoln continued to work on that case and then in late
10:57: September he went out to Cincinnati with his legal brief in hand and when he arrived that Cincinnati there at the hotel where all the lawyers were lodged
11:08: Lincoln encountered Harding and Stanton as they were about to head off to the court and Lincoln said hey let's go up in a game but at this point
11:18: Stanton kind of drew up to Harding and says hey why did you bring that blankety -blank long -armed ape here he doesn't know what he's doing he can't do us any good and with that then
11:32: Stanton and Harding just turned away from Lincoln and continued off to the court on their own and that snubbing it went way beyond that immediate initial insult because in the following days
11:45: Stanton kind of managed to make it plain to Lincoln that he wanted
11:51: Lincoln to remove himself from the case and Lincoln he withdrew but he stayed in Cincinnati to hear the arguments and in Harding never even opened
12:01: Lincoln's manuscript thinking it would only be trash so all throughout that week he was ignored at the hotel the guys never asked
12:11: Lincoln to eat with them and even when there was a banquet for the attorneys Lincoln had to stay away and so it's no wonder that Lincoln in retrospect said you know
12:21: I don't think I'm ever gonna head back to Cincinnati again because it was really a dark week for me and then then six years later the next time that Lincoln Stanton shook hands
12:35: Lincoln was the president but listen to this now instead of Lincoln's holding
12:44: Stanton's obnoxious offense against him Lincoln offered
12:49: Stanton the post of Secretary of War he disregarded that resentment he disregarded the humiliation because Lincoln recognized the gifts and talents of Stanton and he chose to just like the proverb says it's a man's discretion that makes him slow to anger and it's his glory to overlook a transgression so so Lincoln overlooked that transgression and frankly he made one of the best choices possible for his cabinet
13:22: Secretary of War because this was during the era of the Civil War during Lincoln's presidency in fact
13:30: Lincoln Stanton got so close that when Lincoln was shot it was
13:35: Stanton that was at Lincoln's bedside and it was Stanton who uttered those famous words now he belongs to the ages these guys because of Lincoln not holding a grudge he buried the grudge he overlooked a transgression and I think that's really a great model for us but I know
13:57: I know Chris I know what you're saying Jason I know what you're saying but wait a minute Stanton never repented never admitted anything wrong but you know there surely is a place for our required repentance you look at Matthew 18 15 where it says if your brother sins reproved him and if he doesn't then take two or three witnesses and if he repents forgive him but you see oftentimes
14:29: I think this Matthew 18 is for those cases crystal clear that there is a sin that has been committed and frankly that's a very rare case oftentimes in human relations where it's crystal clear like there was a fornication or adultery in a marriage crystal clear or somebody embezzled $100 ,000 from a partner crystal clear but oftentimes the problems that we encounter is something like you made this comment in a business meeting that offended me or she made a comment at the
15:13: Thanksgiving table that offended me or you fired my son from that job and that offended me and these are all cases where there can be different interpretations and different angles on what took place oftentimes the controversies that we won't forgive people of are disputable matters that aren't necessarily black and white airtight like we see in Matthew 18 or in Luke 17
15:44: I think we need to then apply the principle that puzzle piece that's crucial from 1911 a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and it's his glory to overlook a transgression amen well it's interesting
16:01: I just recently brought an end to a grudge I was holding against somebody a
16:09: I'm not going to mention his name but a very well -known Christian on television who
16:16: I've had on my program I was certain he would he snubbed me rudely at an event where we were both in attendance where he was speaking and it was shocking to me
16:31: I didn't understand it and for a year I did hold on to a grudge and then finally
16:37: I said I've got to send an email to this brother and clarify whether or not my apprehensions were correct or not and he replied immediately within less than less than five minutes after I sent the email and he said dear brother
16:57: I am so sorry that I gave you some kind of impression that I was being rude or snobbish to you please forgive me it was not intentional
17:07: I have nothing but the highest regard for you and what you do on iron sharpens iron radio and please
17:13: I hope that you invite me back on your program etc etc so that brought an end to something that I unnecessarily carried around me for a year yeah that's it that's a great example of times when we find ourselves offended or or transgressed against or abused because frankly even if he had intended right to treat you gruffly and unkindly
17:44: I think that passage in Proverbs 1911 says hey just just pass it by just just just overlook it
17:53: I think of even the the word there in Proverbs 1911 the word passed by it's the
18:00: Hebrew word of our which means like like pass over I even think of how oh in that passage in Exodus 33 and 34 what
18:09: Moses is hiding in the cleft of the rock and the Lord's glory which is a in incinerating glory it is a consuming glory it just just passes right by him the sentence of justice isn't visited on the sinful
18:27: Moses his crimes are overlooked and disregarded by the
18:33: Lord and I think that's what it's calling us to do that even if somebody intended to harm us that we are to even so pass it by there's this there's this account the late 1700s of a guy he he endured a humiliating scoff so back in the 1700s what did you do when somebody scoffed you there
18:52: I'm for all right that's right that's right you challenge him to a duel his wife says what are you doing he says to his wife my dear how could
19:02: I appear in public again my public stature is at stake my community splendor my community glory is at stake and what happened to the man and in the duel was he lost a duel got shot in the shoulder which was really a shame to him frankly even if he would have won the duel he would have been shown to be a fool who is soon angry his true glory community wise or splendor or stature would have been for him to pass it by the offense just just walk away from the offense overlook the offense like Lincoln you know
19:38: Lincoln I heard wasn't a very pleasant man by way of appearance but that story shows him to be the most handsome man ever he had he had man syndrome and maybe he did look like a monkey of sorts it was his splendor it was his glory to everybody in the community when he overlooked
20:05: Stanton's offense amen and before we go to our first commercial break pastor
20:14: Jason continued do you have a question you'd like to ask of our guests you know I think when we when we talk about this when we talk about repentance
20:23: I think my question would be how do we define repentance when it comes to us being offended yeah that's a that's a good question
20:32: I think I think I think much of it has to do with an ongoing sin but I think crucially
20:40: Jason it has to do with a clear -cut sin yeah there are there are so many times when oh you use the example of you fired my son and so I am offended at you okay now you need to repent because you fired my son well wait a minute the boss may have had a reason could have been the son wasn't there on time for work habitually it could have been that the son maybe took lunch breaks that were too long was maybe that the son just wasn't skilled in the area or that the son wasn't a team player and that was the interpretation of the owner who fired the son but the father who's sometimes isn't you our sons can do no wrong has a different interpretation there's that offense and the idea you can put this into so many different interrelational struggles and tips and conflicts that we have that sometimes again we're using the
21:47: Luke 17 three and four passages a club until you come around to my interpretation of what took place you haven't yet repented so again
22:00: I think it is crucial like you say what does repentance actually mean I think like like Lawson comments on this text in Proverbs 1911 he says it's our duty and our wisdom to pass over not only slight offenses but even injuries of the deepest die such as are called transgressions and the word for transgressions is the
22:24: Hebrew word Pesha which is the same word used in Genesis 50 in verse 17 when
22:30: Joseph forgave his brothers listen to this Jason for throwing him into a pit for selling him off to the
22:38: Ishmaelites he lost the 13 arguably best years of his life and Joseph forgave him of that transgression those brothers of that gross transgression against him by the way
22:53: I just I just have to insert this story because it's so hilarious you were speaking about the ugly appearance of Abraham Lincoln I was watching a documentary on Abraham Lincoln and a story was told as if it was true it was an account that Lincoln gave whether or not he was making it up I don't know meaning
23:15: Lincoln whether or not he was making it up I don't know but Lincoln was on some kind of a journey on his horse this is before he was president and a woman was riding toward him and she raised a rifle pointing it at Lincoln and they both came to a stop on their horses and the woman said to Lincoln I have always said to myself my entire life that if I ever met someone uglier than I am that I would kill him and Lincoln responded to the woman if I am uglier than you ma 'am please fire away
24:02: Chris this was before radio right I'm not sure what you mean they they they had faces for radio oh right well we
24:13: I have to go to our first commercial break right now and if you want to join the conversation our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com
24:19: give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence we'll be right back I'm pastor
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31:56: Mark Chansky who is the coordinator of the Reform Baptist Network and I also have co -hosting the program during the first hour
32:05: Pastor Jason Contino of Harborview Christian Church in Port Jefferson Long Island we do have a listener in Rowdy Kentucky I would love to find out the story of how that city's name came to be
32:19: Alexandria in Rowdy Kentucky she says
32:25: I have difficult understanding I have a difficult time understanding the motivation behind the
32:32: Apostle Paul in writing but if your enemy is hungry feed him if he is thirsty give him a drink for in doing so you will help you will keep burning coals on his head it seems as if Paul is teaching a motivation of vindictiveness can you please explain this oh
32:54: I think it has to do with the idea of burning coals hot coals on the head it's like almost melting someone's grudge the
33:06: Arctic polar isolation that an individual has is melted by kindness isn't that what the
33:14: Lord does he causes the sunshine and the rain to fall on the just and the unjust we should be melted by God's daily pouring kindnesses on our heads
33:26: I think I think that's the theme in fact you even look at that passage we're looking at as we're really calling people to not bury to keep grudges and rather to bury grudges and how maybe there are some folks listening who haven't gone to the
33:43: Christmas family reunion because they have a grudge against someone and we were talking about Lincoln not being the most handsome man not being the most beautiful man but how it says it's a man's glory to overlook a transgression and how you think of how when
34:02: God displays his glory and his beauty he really does it most strikingly and most gloriously
34:12: Oh even even on the cross how even how look it says there in Exodus 33 the
34:20: Lord the Lord the gracious and compassionate God he again is showing his glory to Moses slow to anger and abounding and loving kindness foolish men sometimes can see forgiveness and overlooking the transgression as being drably unassertive and sleep sheep sheepishly meek but really think of the
34:48: Lord Jesus he appears most beautiful when like it says in Isaiah 53 he stood as a sheep before the shearers not opening his mouth he was passing over transgressions and nowhere is
35:05: God displayed more beautifully and handsomely and gloriously than when he's overlooking a transgression and we can be most godlike when we overlook transgressions
35:18: I think this is really crucial because you know Chris and Jason we live in this hypersensitive age where people are overdosing on sensitivity training where even harmless comments are interpreted as microaggressions and hate speech and so oftentimes we kind of overindulge ourselves with the expectation that the world has got to treat us with kid gloves but no that's not what the proverb says it says that it's our discretion that makes us slow to anger and it's our glory that enables us to overlook an offense so it's just it's just a crucial like in this world let's say you don't get invited to a party that everybody else you know is going to and I'm offended or my boss commends my co -worker in the company meeting but not me and I'm offended or maybe you don't receive a thank -you card for the birthday gift you gave and I'm offended or your son sits out on the bench while the other kids in the team the coach's son and and his friends kids they all play and my son sits and and we're offended we get all these elbows that were jostled with where we feel hurt and upset and insulted and snubbed and slighted and wronged and ignored and mistreated but you know it's our glory to overlook these transgressions against us instead of our demanding justice amen and did you have a question
37:09: Jason no I was just I was just in agreement with both of you that's outstanding that's that's such a great way to look at it and in my own life experience having two sons that played high -level sports both played
37:27: Division one college sports my older boy played soccer at Elon University my younger guy played lacrosse at Manhattan College I I saw at the highest level the difficulty for for a parent where you you know what your child is capable of and I had coached when they were young and and you realize you look at your own child through you know magnifying lens and and it's the where the coach is managing an entire team right coaches managing on a soccer team college soccer team 28 30 players and and for me for me when
38:04: I when I felt that hurt because I saw as my as my this talent this ability this this effort this culmination of all these years of playing and and now you know feeling he's maybe not getting the playing time he deserves still made the team still traveling with the team still getting into some games but as that frustration started to overtake me a little bit the cure is for me was what you're pointing at it was simply to pray for that coach pray for his staff pray for the the teammates and before I knew it it didn't seem as important as significant as as what
38:47: I had thought it was it wasn't even as important to my son as it had been for his father who was harboring this resentment this animosity you know so so I could really relate to to that analogy that's a great example
39:00: Jason and I think sometimes as Christians we believe that we're compelled to go confront that coach and we're compelled to to tell him that we believe that he sinned against me as the father and he sinned against my son but in reality look the proverb says it's our glory to overlook a transgression this is really speaking of forgiving unilaterally now think about this guys it's calling us to forgive unilaterally and I know what you guys are thinking or even some of the listeners are thinking but you'll say but come on Pastor Mark God never forgives without repentance you know what
39:43: I say oh yes he does yeah and he forgives continuously and look it's so often due to our ignorance you know you think of Psalm 130 it says
39:55: Oh Lord if you would mark iniquities who could stand but with you there is forgiveness or like it says in Psalm 40 my iniquities have overtaken me so that I cannot see there are more numerous than the hairs of my head gentlemen
40:13: I have so many sins that God has forgiven and I've never confessed and I've never repented of I have so many sins of thought and word and deed that I can't even count even yesterday
40:28: I sinned hundreds of times yesterday and I didn't confess them all but God unilaterally forgave me and so we should be willing to yes be like God and unilaterally forgive like it says in Colossians 3 bearing with one another forgiving each other whoever has a complaint against anyone just as the
40:55: Lord forgave you so should you forgive others I know there's a you know there's a story of well no no no when somebody sinned against me
41:05: I should always have this disposition of being willing to forgive if they repent
41:12: I I have forgiveness wrapped up in beautiful paper and I've got a nice bow on it and if they come and if they confess all of the sin and if they repent of the sin then
41:25: I'm willing to give them the gift of forgiveness but I tell you what gentlemen there are people who are in Reformed churches
41:33: Orthodox churches who have these little gifts that they've been storing up in a massive warehouse where they're holding these grudges in this warehouse against people and saying
41:48: I will forgive them if they ever come to me and wholly own their sin and repent
41:54: I believe this is not in keeping with the whole counsel of God yes there are occasions like I said the clear -cut sin the adultery the embezzlement the issues where there is no question that there is sin but we're using this again as a club that we wield and says if you will repent if you will come around to my view of it if you will embrace my opinion of what took place then
42:22: I will repent you that is a very that I will forgive you that is a very self -serving use of these biblical passages that is not
42:31: I believe in keeping with the whole counsel of God we need to be willing like it says in Oh even 1st
42:39: Corinthians 6 9 where it says why not rather be defrauded why not rather be wronged to be able to pass over transgressions against us okay we have a another listener from Lawrenceville Georgia Filipina and Filipina says would a text that is depicting
43:07: Joseph in the Old Testament forgiving his brothers be along the lines of what you are talking about today even though it was clear that Joseph's brothers were guilty of serious sin and only appeared to be repentant because of terror over what their brother may do yeah
43:29: I think you're right it doesn't it doesn't bear all the marks of an ideal repentance does it it seems to be something self -serving but again oftentimes we will say okay you've come to me and you've sort of confessed your sin but I'm not really sure if you've really embraced the depth of your transgression against me or I don't think you really have turned away from this sin and therefore
44:00: I'm gonna hold you in the prison of my grudge a little bit longer until you prove to me again
44:06: I believe this is totally not in keeping with the principle that would be expressed by the proverb a man's discretion makes him slow to anger it's his glory to overlook a transgression look what
44:20: Joseph did Joseph is yes he's a type of the Lord Jesus Christ the the
44:26: Lord Jesus who has forgiven us father forgive them they know not what they do in that sense but also the way that Christ is an example for us that that he walked in such a way that we are to follow in his footsteps and we have another listener
44:43: Tyrell in Brentwood Long Island New York and Tyrell says having been a
44:51: Christian for decades I know that the kinds of sins that Christians most frequently commit in my own experience and I would include myself are gossip and the very sin that you're talking about today holding on to a grudge as a pastor would you agree that those are the most prevalent sins amongst the body of Christ yeah
45:14: I really well I don't know if they are the most prevalent but well I can say that you got me just hit me between the eyes with the bullseye and how
45:23: I can be the guy with the warehouse full of grudges and you think of those passages like a
45:30: Matthew 5 7 where it speaks of blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy or even like a
45:40: Matthew 7 to that the measure that we measure to others again the idea of judge that lest you be judged the measure that we measure to others that measure will be measured out to us am
45:54: I somebody who is who is merciful am I somebody who is overlooking an offense or am
46:01: I like that unforgiving servant in Matthew 18 who's forgiven the fortune by the master then
46:07: I go off and throttle and throw into prison the prison of my grudge one of my fellow servants
46:13: I think that's a that's a crucial issue regarding what is true
46:18: Christianity because we we are identified by the fact that we are to be kind to one another tender -hearted forgiving one another just as God in Christ has forgiven us
46:35: I think that's that's so fundamental like let me even just share this idea of of the grudge and the way of dealing with that grudge like I said here it is
46:49: Christmastime and there are people who refuse even to talk with extended family and there can be subtle at company gatherings or people can even be kind of cold and distant at churches there's one commentator who said this he says grudges are easier to hold than forgiveness is to hand out and then the the idea of the holding of a grudge it's not simply punishing somebody else it's really self -mutilating there's corrosive effect of holding a grudge it's toxic to myself when
47:35: I hold one like it says in Proverbs 14 it says a heart at peace gives life to the body but passions rot the bones and there are physiological effects like one's intestines that even physicians will tell you that they will eat your intestines out and the idea of of of how the
48:04: Lord it says in Psalm 103 it says verse 9 it says the Lord does not keep his anger and so we shouldn't be holding in our hearts this anger but we should let go of it we should we should let it go plumber writes somewhere he says wicked men and devils carry grudges but God and good men imitating his example don't in fact let me just kind of kind of give a little story
48:37: I started with Lincoln let me go with another historical character and I'm gonna go with Robert E Lee guys
48:44: I hope you're not offended by this Robert E Lee I've read a number of his biographies Lee was a very godly man yes you know the sinful man
48:53: Lee was a product of his time and Chris and Jason and I we're all products of our time
49:00: I assure you that but but here's the account with Lee Lee after World War two he visited a woman in her estate probably
49:10: Civil War yeah yeah that's right he visited a woman and her estate in Kentucky and after dinner the woman went out in her front yard and he pointed to this she pointed to this shattered grand old oak tree in the front yard of her house and she just was bitter she was complaining about how federal cannon fire had splintered that tree and she stood out front and she was hoping that Lee would curse the north but he just stared silently and Lee said ma 'am cut it down just just just just cut it down and forget it thing likewise for us you know there are these splintered trees that we have in our front yards and we think of people who shattered them you know the best thing for us to do it'd be to apply that that passage where it says a man's discretion makes him slow to anger and says glory to overlook a transgression you know even even
50:21: I know it's okay we're just listening to a talk show and but when we're thinking the scriptures we should always say like Psalm 139 search me
50:29: Oh God know my heart test me and know my thoughts see if there be any sinful way in me and lead me in the way everlasting
50:39: Chris we talked about Providence before we started here and I believe that maybe there's one person there's one person who's listening to this and the
50:49: Lord wanted you to be here and to ponder this text a man's discretion makes him slow to anger it's his glory to overlook a transgression
51:01: I think of in the upper room when when the disciples were there and the Lord Jesus says one of you one of you is gonna betray me and what was the godly response to that is it
51:14: I Lord am I the one is it I am I the one that that that Chansky's talking about that needed to hear this just just pause and ponder am
51:25: I is there you know I I'm almost 65 years old Chris and Jason and I I think about keeping short counts and and the need to be able to reconcile if there is anyone that we have an offense with like Romans 12 as far as it depends on you live that peace with all men may it be that somebody maybe maybe me
51:52: I'm just thinking to myself what other relationships I've really tried to get with people and interact with people and and and confess and and reconcile with people anybody here maybe this is timely hopefully it'll be like apples of gold and settings of silver a word spoken in right circumstances yes that's so good mark you're speaking right to my heart so maybe it was me you know
52:18: I see a dichotomy here in as you're speaking and it's almost like when we expect repentance where we're putting ourselves almost in God's place as a judge yet when we offer forgiveness not expecting that repentance right because that word
52:36: I'm still going back to that word of repentance we're almost putting ourselves in if if you have sinned against me and I'm holding on to it as if you sinned against God right if I expect repentance because I want you to turn turn from what you're doing what do
52:52: I want you to turn from from a pastoral perspective I always want you to turn towards Christ so so now when
52:58: I have this expectation of repentance because you sinned against me Jason then then
53:03: I'm putting myself I think I'm putting myself in too lofty of a spot yet we can offer forgiveness and in offering forgiveness without this expectation of repentance
53:15: I see Christ likeness in there that there's no other opportunity to be more Christ like than when we offer forgiveness because what did he come to do to forgive the world right so so I see that both sides of that in as I'm listening to you speak we've got to say goodbye to Pastor Mark Chansky unfortunately and Pastor Mark it's been such a joy to have you on I look forward to your frequent returns to the program
53:39: I want to repeat your website for our listeners reform Baptist Network comm reform
53:46: Baptist Network comm please come back to the program soon Pastor Mark thanks I've enjoyed it every blessing all right
53:52: God bless you we will be back with Pastor Jason Contino as our primary guest we'll be right back it's such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world here's
54:15: Joe Riley a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed dr.
54:24: Joe Moore craft I'm Joe Riley a faithful iron sharpens iron radio listener here in a tie in County Kildare Ireland going back to 2005 one of my very favorite guests of iron sharpens iron is dr.
54:37: Joe more craft if you've been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio dr. more craft and heritage
54:43: Presbyterian Church of coming Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters heritage
54:50: Presbyterian Church of coming is in Forsyth County a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area heritage is a thoroughly biblical church unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and dr.
55:02: Joe more craft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism heritage is a member of the
55:07: Hanover Presbyterian built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
55:17: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the
55:24: Reformers scripture alone grace alone faith alone Christ alone and God's glory alone their primary goal is the worship of the
55:32: Triune God that continues in eternity for more details on heritage Presbyterian Church of coming
55:37: Georgia visit heritage Presbyterian Church calm that's heritage Presbyterian Church calm are called six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one that's six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one if you visit tell them
55:53: Joe right again our insurance are in radio listener my toy and counseled error sent you have you noticed the gap that exists between the
56:06: Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study so often we experience great preaching from the pulpit but when it comes time to study
56:16: God's Word in those smaller settings well let's be honest it leaves a lot to be desired it seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the
56:27: Word of God and it's built upon sound doctrine much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the
56:34: Bible hi there my name is Jordan too and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound
56:45: Bible study resources our quarterly curriculum is titled the Baptist expositor and for good reason we are
56:52: Baptist and we exegete the scriptures if you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the
56:58: Word of God I invite you go to our website download a free study Baptist publishing house .com
57:05: may God bless you I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church a
57:26: Christ centered gospel driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island New York and play our role in fulfilling the
57:34: Great Commission supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth we're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family at Lindbrook Baptist Church we believe the scriptures of the
57:48: Old and New Testaments to be the inspired Word of God inerrant in the original writings complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak we believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ this salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God was purchased by Christ on the cross and is received through faith alone apart from any human merit works or ritual salvation in Christ also results in righteous living good works an appropriate respect and concern to all if you live near Lindbrook Long Island or if you're just passing through on the
58:32: Lord's Day we'd love to have you come and join us in worship for details visit Lindbrook Baptist org that's
58:40: LYN Brooke Baptist org this is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not a result of words so that no one may boast the
58:58: Lord blessing in the knowledge of himself Puritan Reformed is a
59:07: Bible believing kingdom -building devil -fighting church we are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone
59:16: Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets priests and kings we teach families to worship together as families
59:27: Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea we sing the
59:37: Psalms teach the law proclaim the gospel make disciples maintain discipline and exalt
59:43: Christ this is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix Arizona join us in the glorious cause of advancing
59:52: Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth Puritan Reformed Church believe build fight
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01:11:32: Jason Contino as we continue an hour number two under the theme a solo script
01:11:38: Torah the bulwark against all false religions and it's great to have you now as our guest as you switch hats from co -host to guest and pastor
01:11:50: Contino I think it would be good to set the stage for our discussion on solo script
01:11:56: Torah to bring up this praise report that you had about a friend who was a
01:12:01: Jehovah's Witness or should I say was a Jehovah's Witness yes so the first of all
01:12:08: Mark was outstanding that was a really fascinating and quick hour Chris I didn't expect that to go so quick but he was amazing when you reached out to me on pretty short notice asking me to be on the show
01:12:22: I figured let me look at our last interview the last time I was on the show which was August 24th of 2022 and I I listened to our program just to see what we had touched upon already you gave me a you know that that program was more about about more or less about my testimony
01:12:42: I'm having come out of the Jehovah's Witnesses to becoming a Christian and then becoming a pastor and since since that show
01:12:52: I've gone from being the associate pastor to Pastor Pete Jansen has retired this past April and I became the lead pastor here at Harborview Christian Church so I was listening to our our show and I had told you that I was visiting a friend a friend who
01:13:10: I was a young boy as a young boy was a close friend of mine at when we were
01:13:15: Jehovah's Witnesses and this this buddy who was having myself and my wife up we reconnected right around 2019 -2020 and I could tell that from his questions he had seen me speak on the deity of Christ at conferences and had seen some of my sermons
01:13:36: I could tell from his questioning that the Holy Spirit was working in my friend Richie's heart and and we did the show
01:13:44: I was at his house up in Warrensburg New York upstate New York by Lake George when we did the show and just in passing
01:13:50: I mentioned to you that I was at Richie's house and that I felt the Holy Spirit was working in his heart and I felt he would be coming to Christ soon and what was happening that week what we didn't get into was
01:14:02: Richie had a next -door neighbor actually was a rental of Richie's Richie owned the house and this next -door neighbor
01:14:09: Mike who was a Christian was passing away from cancer and Richie became more or less his hospice nurse was spending time at Mike's bedside spending spending his last weeks with him and when
01:14:23: Mike I had become friendly with Mike also in an attempt to hit Richie from several fronts with his next -door neighbor and with a local
01:14:31: Baptist pastor up there Aaron Spoonhour he
01:14:36: Richie brought Mike to the hospital a couple weeks prior in July to find out that he had he had lung cancer in both lungs and it had metastasized through his body and Richie had seen
01:14:50: Mike say to the doctor who brought was brought in I don't need to follow up with an oncologist
01:14:57: I don't need chemotherapy I know I'm very very sick and I'm looking forward to meeting my creator to being with my brother to seeing to being with Christ and to being where time no longer exists and I'd reached out to Mike in a word of encouragement and said you're you're
01:15:17: Richie's going to be saved in watching you die well and that day that we did the we did the podcast was like I said
01:15:27: August 24th throughout that night Richie stayed at his bedside and around 4 a .m.
01:15:34: was was praying with Mike and for Mike and he just cried out to the
01:15:40: Lord and said God why can't this be me instead of my good friend why can't I take this punish this for him this this misery this grief this agony and as he said that the
01:15:53: Lord told him this is what my son did for you and his heart was broken and his heart of stone was replaced with a heart of flesh at 445 in the morning on August 25th and and I just wanted to share that praise report with you because it's something
01:16:10: I mentioned in passing and something that I saw played out in real time well hallelujah and there are probably well
01:16:18: I'm not saying probably but possibly it's a better way of phrasing it there are possibly some
01:16:23: Roman Catholics listening who are scratching their head saying wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute the title of this segment is sola scriptura the bulwark against all false religions and they are scratching their heads because wait a minute
01:16:41: I've been told by Catholic apologists on YouTube and the internet and at speaking engagements that sola scriptura is the very thing that gives birth to cults like the
01:16:58: Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons and all kinds of false religion but the irony is that these cults almost every single time have an ecclesiology that resembles far more closely the
01:17:17: Church of Rome than it does sola scriptura am I right well
01:17:22: I would I would say so when you have one or several men and what you see is is the these these cults always have one leader or several leaders that have authority that that transcends scripture that it exceeds scripture and you say well how how could that be because oftentimes they won't admit to that but in reality if someone is still speaking and you're saying that scripture is closed then it then just by definition the fact that I still am speaking and you're going to listen to what these leaders say over and above scripture because scriptures not still being written unless unless you're going to continue to add to your to your books right the
01:18:11: Book of Mormon Pearl of Great Price Doctrine and Covenants if you're going to continue to add through the
01:18:17: Watchtower the awake magazine you're continue continuing to add you can have things for feet people to follow up with then it's not solo scriptura it is above and beyond that and you are going and you're changing every time that you open your mouth and I would say that the church in Rome has this same problem for for the you know for this down coming down through the centuries yeah in fact the
01:18:43: Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower Bible and track society really is like a cousin of the
01:18:51: Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church and when I say that I'm not saying that there's any connection religiously but it but it you cannot according to the
01:19:01: Jehovah's Witness cult you cannot understand the Bible without the
01:19:06: Watchtower Bible and track society 100 % and you know this goes with Mormons in fact them and it was it was it would have been hilarious if it wasn't so tragically said when
01:19:21: I was watching the coming home network once and you know that is a network dedicated to people of primarily a
01:19:32: Protestant background who have converted to Rome very often they were raised
01:19:39: Roman Catholic became Protestants evangelicals fundamentalists and then returned to the Catholic Church the host of that program
01:19:50: Marcus Grodi actually dared to say that the cult of Mormonism is a result of Sola Scriptura they don't even believe that the
01:20:02: Bible is their sole source of authority in fact it's the inferior source of authority under the
01:20:10: Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants so I mean this is you wonder you know these people have been around long enough to know that this is a fact and to be saying that Sola Scriptura causes this
01:20:27: I can't help but think it's intentional deception and slander what do you have to say about that you know
01:20:35: I want to tread so carefully here because our you know the our family and friends that are still in Rome they have so much more correct then then the other two organizations the other two cults that that you bring up so whereas did
01:20:56: Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons I find it very very very hard to believe that someone could be saved with inside of those cults because they have a wrong
01:21:06: Christ and and a wrong gospel right yet the Roman Church I believe has
01:21:14: Christ right they just put so much between us in Christ between the their people in Christ a magisterium a priest a perhaps even his mother saints and so that the gospel tends to get distorted right it's not just Christ and his work it becomes
01:21:34: Christ and his work and almost like the the other two then what all that you could do on top of that right so so I just there is a difference
01:21:44: Chris but we see there is there is this denial or discouragement of being in the
01:21:55: Bible and and why is that why do we think that they would discourage their people from being in the
01:22:00: Bible from reading the Bible from knowing the Bible from studying the Bible clearly Paul says that that you need someone to preach it to you you need someone you need to to know what's in it why would that be
01:22:13: I think the the answer is self -evident right because they're teaching things that aren't in the
01:22:20: Bible amen and I think we should also clarify what exactly sola scriptura means because there might even be multitudes of evangelicals out there who have no idea what that is because their pastors are ignorant themselves of church history or they don't think church history is important at all but sola scriptura scripture alone does not mean as the frequent
01:22:51: Roman Catholic caricature or slanderous description of that would be that we believe that we can just go off into the woods read the
01:23:04: Bible and we will perfectly and correctly understand it and we don't need any teachers instruction in this now on the one hand hypothetically it is true that a lost sinner can go into the woods of the
01:23:23: Bible and read portions of it and have their heart open their eyes ears and their mind open to receive the truth and be saved but they are violating the very teachings of scripture if they choose to remain in that state of just wandering around as a lone wolf or a maverick without placing themselves under the authority of elders in a local church right you know what we if we take scripture in its full context where we see that that's what we're to get to so I think what we saw with Martin Luther is saying that you know a boy could come in from the field and and look at scripture and be saved by it absolutely now we move on to the next step and we want to follow we want to obey we want to we want to share so so now
01:24:16: I think it certainly helps and we're told not to you know we're told that we are to be in community with others right so so there's there's there's the aspect of being saved being saved by Christ and his work being saved by that gospel message that he took our sins to the cross the propitiation for our sins that we receive his righteousness because he received our sins upon him and drank from the cup of the wrath of the the the wrath of a righteous
01:24:48: God against our sin but now we want to see well how are we to live how are we to respond to this and it's not by by living in isolation and it's not by trying to understand the
01:25:00: Bible in a heretical manner but it's but it's by being in community and and by and by you know having having this support system around us that's that's what
01:25:12: I see in scripture yes it's a double -edged sword we are not only to place ourselves under the authority of elders and a biblically faithful local congregation and we are to recognize that we ourselves have a very limited understanding of the in searchable scriptures but at the same time we are to continue to study the scriptures so that we can be
01:25:44: Berean and test everything we're hearing even from our own pastors by the scriptures themselves so it is a it is not one thing or the other it's both and obviously if in our study of scripture we come to realize that the church we are in is heretical or an opposition to the scriptures in serious ways and folks
01:26:11: I'm not I'm not suggesting that people leave their churches for any reason over which they find disagreement with a local church where they're a member but you know there are a lot of false churches out there or a lot of shallow churches that will never be an aid to a believers growth and there there comes a time when very often you have to say goodbye
01:26:37: I love you and be you have to be gracious and humble about it but move on and search for a church that is in and true harmony with the teachings of the scripture and I go ahead no
01:26:52: I'm sorry to step on you but if people wanted to get a an understanding of that there was an article written
01:26:58: I think it was in 2005 it's still all over the internet theological triage by Albert Muller and you you could see where you know that first level would be where something is heretical versus where you're either
01:27:13: Christian or you're not and and this is where the you know whether the cults don't fall into that they are not
01:27:22: Christian you know and then and and the Catholic the church in Rome would would probably not make it past that first cut either and then the second level would be secondary issues can we is will am
01:27:37: I willing to say that a Presbyterian who who believes in baptizing babies they're certainly a
01:27:47: Christian they just have a different understanding that perhaps you and I do Chris as people who would say that we're
01:27:53: Reformed Baptists right so would we be able to be in the same congregation with them or not and then the next level would be the tertiary issues things like eschatology where where perhaps we could certainly be in the same study group even the same church yet yet we would have fun hashing these things out and extending extending grace to one another so I think that that article theological triage would be something for people to that could help people to take a look and say you know where do
01:28:26: I fit in with this where do I fall within my congregation is this something I want to bring up to my elders and voice that I am uncomfortable with with the way that they're teaching us or what they're doing with this or not well we have a question from Xavier in East Mauritius Long Island New York I have heard disagreement among Christians even
01:28:50: Reformed Christians over whether or not Christians should allow
01:28:56: Jehovah's Witnesses who arrive at their doorstep into their homes so that they can open up the scriptures to these
01:29:03: Jehovah's Witnesses and share the gospel with them even though the motivation is good and godly
01:29:10: I have been told by some Christians that this is inappropriate and we should just say goodbye to them because they are false teachers yes so if I could speak to that for a minute these are these are lost hurting people these are our neighbors and Jesus asked who are your neighbors right he clearly points out that the the our neighbors are every everyone we're to pray for everyone where to share with everyone and what makes
01:29:44: Jehovah's Witnesses and and Mormons so easy to share with in some respects is when we want to share our faith we oftentimes bump into people who don't want to talk about spiritual things they don't want to talk about God they don't want to hear about Jesus yet the
01:30:01: Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on your door to talk to you about spiritual things talk to you about theological things to talk to you about God they are standing there with a wrong
01:30:11: Christ and with no belief in the Holy Spirit I guarantee you there is nothing for you to fear of them unless you are not a saved
01:30:20: Christian yet in which case get yourself saved have the Holy Spirit indwell you and learn enough where you're able to have a conversation with these people but I would encourage our listeners be in prayer for these people and bring be in prayer for opportunities to share with with everyone who has a wrong gospel and does not have
01:30:41: Christ whether they are teaching or not but put your neck on the line have a conversation with them the thing that I think will work best for the
01:30:52: Jehovah's Witness and the LDS missionary is to lead with questions they are there to teach you not to learn from you but you could certainly teach them an awful lot by leading with questions yes and don't you agree that a lot of that decision on whether or not to welcome
01:31:11: Jehovah's Witnesses into your home is how seasoned and how biblically literate you are as a
01:31:19: Christian because obviously a person who is not yet very familiar with the
01:31:29: Bible Jehovah's Witness is going to tie them up in knots and therefore the better thing might be to say hey can you come back next week or tomorrow when my minister is here with me or I have a friend who's very learned in the
01:31:48: Bible and we can both sit and talk these things over with you wouldn't that be something that would be a good suggestion yeah and I would be a little bit more trying to think of the term
01:32:03: I don't want to say deceptive but I wouldn't say I want my pastor here
01:32:08: I would say I have a brother in Christ or I have a friend that I would love to be here we'd like to hear more from you but I'd like for him to hear this off also this way they don't think that they're walking into a trap but I do
01:32:24: I would recommend if somebody is not stable in their walk yet that is not a theologically comfortable having conversation there they're gonna take about six or seven percent of the scripture that they know very very well and they're going to pound that there once you start taking them out of that area that they know well you're going to see in most cases a cognitive dissonance as they do not know that these scriptures even exist when they start to see the deity of Christ or that the
01:33:00: Holy Spirit is is also God but but yeah for a baby
01:33:07: Christian I would not recommend that but we don't want to stay baby Christians for long we want to be learning and we want to be looking for opportunities to share and I think that a lot of people are misinterpreting when it comes to this the second
01:33:23: John chapter seven or should
01:33:30: I say seven through eleven mm -hmm for many deceivers have gone out into the world those who do not acknowledge
01:33:39: Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh this is the deceiver and the Antichrist watch yourselves that you do not lose what we have accomplished but that you may receive a full reward anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teachings of Christ does not have
01:33:57: God the one who remains in the teaching have has both the Father and the Son if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house and do not give him a greeting for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds now
01:34:15: I have heard by people I highly regard and trust as as sound exegetes that this is this is referring to not letting somebody have your or use your household as an office for their ministry or something or to you hold court and it may be a run of Bible study that you would agree with that yeah so inviting them into the house to sit at the kitchen table and have a cup of coffee and discuss the deity of Christ is not the same as having them come stay overnight stay in the home and give
01:34:54: Bible studies from your home you're naturally you're not going to allow them to turn your home into a kingdom home you're you're going to invite them in have a discussion with them and and share with them why you believe what you believe in that that seems to work very well for me in that do you want to know why you're gonna be running into a lot of Christians I will tell it an
01:35:20: LDS missionary pair or the Jehovah's Witness pair you're gonna run into a lot of Christians would you like to know from a from a
01:35:28: Christian's perspective why we believe in oh sure you know they'll come in and know they'll fall they'll come in and and allow you to show them so that they can show you what they believe and that could be a very civil discussion and a beautiful discussion if it's presented with the right heart and in the right way but but like you said
01:35:49: Chris you're I'm glad you pointed that scripture out that's a that's a good thing to be aware of you're not gonna have them in your house teaching
01:35:56: Bible studies amen and we have to go to our final break right now if you have a question send it immediately because we're rapidly running out of time
01:36:04: Chris Arnzen at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back I'm Brian McLaughlin president of the
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01:40:51: Every Christian who's serious about the Reformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the
01:41:01: Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.
01:41:07: It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism it is a thoroughly researched work utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology
01:41:19: Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
01:41:30: For details on the eight volume commentary go to Westminster Commentary dot com
01:41:35: Westminster Commentary dot com. For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia visit
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01:41:49: Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.
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01:42:19: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.
01:42:28: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our
01:42:40: Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
01:42:46: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe ten minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some
01:43:00: Lord's Day in worshipping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:43:10: Our website is Grace Church at Franklin dot org that's Grace Church at Franklin dot org.
01:43:18: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:43:23: Sovereign Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.
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01:47:54: Welcome back and Pastor Jason Contino, we have a listener in Findlay, Ohio who doesn't have a question, a clarifying comment.
01:48:08: Cindy in Findlay, Ohio says in relationship to our brief discussion before the break on 2nd
01:48:20: John verses 7 through 11, I was just looking at it and it's gone.
01:48:28: Where is it? The statement, oh here it is.
01:48:34: It was common practice back in the day when the scriptures were written that traveling evangelists would stay with families along their journey.
01:48:43: That is what the scripture is referencing when it says to not bring them into your house.
01:48:50: Obviously Cindy is referring to traveling evangelists who have false teaching, not any traveling evangelist.
01:48:59: I'm assuming that's what she means. But obviously if you don't know who they are, in fact you shouldn't be letting total strangers in your house anyway, especially if you have children in your home.
01:49:10: When I say letting them into your house, it means staying there. Yeah. But let's see, we have
01:49:18: Jamison in South Setauket, Long Island.
01:49:24: That's not very far from Port Jefferson, is it? I know Jamison.
01:49:30: Oh you do? Yeah. Okay, Jamison says, how do you respond to a
01:49:35: Catholic who says that Sola Scriptura caused denominations such as charismatic and Pentecostal movements?
01:49:44: Well that's kind of interesting since there are charismatic Catholics. The Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio, I believe, is officially a charismatic
01:49:57: Catholic institution, if I'm not mistaken. But whether I'm correct on that or not, there are many charismatic
01:50:03: Catholics. So what's your answer to that? Well I think it's the same thing, right?
01:50:09: It's pointing to the fact that by taking the Bible alone, they are ingraining this fear in their people that they can be lost.
01:50:20: They can be lost within the pages of the Bible, and their salvation can be lost.
01:50:27: When in reality, it's a false dichotomy or a straw man argument.
01:50:37: We are going to take the Bible, and like we already discussed, we're going to, with other solid sound
01:50:45: Christians, elders, in a community of believers, we're going to take the
01:50:52: Bible and we're going to preach it, teach it, learn from it, and use it as a guide for our lives.
01:51:00: As opposed to like you said, a magisterium that can change moment by moment, week to week, day to day, year to year,
01:51:10: Pope to Pope. Now if I could just transition, Chris, I have in front of me from the
01:51:17: Vatican Dispatch. It's a
01:51:23: Jesuit article from March 15th, 2021 from Gerard O 'Connell, and it says the title of it is
01:51:33: Vatican with Pope Francis' approval, says priests cannot bless same -sex couples.
01:51:40: The Vatican Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith has issued a statement in which it declares that the church does not have and cannot have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex.
01:51:52: It said Pope Francis was informed and gave his assent to its publication. And here we are, two and a half years later on December 18th of 2023, and we see that very thing happening.
01:52:09: Which is it? How do we get from one to another? Because the answer is because man's heart is corrupt.
01:52:18: Man can't decide these things on his own. He needs an immutable God with an immutable word, which we stand and teach and follow and obey.
01:52:31: Amen. Well, Pastor Jason, I think that because of the fact that we have such little time left,
01:52:39: I'm going to hold off on any further listener questions and have you summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about this important topic.
01:52:51: You know, in leaving on that, I think what we need to do is, you know,
01:52:59: I'm not doubting the Pope's intentions. I think his intentions are to both strengthen his church, strengthen the faith of the people who have faith in the wrong place, him and his magisterium.
01:53:15: But I think his intentions could be right. But what is that doing to souls,
01:53:21: Chris? What are people who might be struggling with this thing feeling and thinking?
01:53:27: And if the Pope says it's okay, if the Pope says my priest can bless me, and we need to define the terms, what is a blessing on this?
01:53:35: How do we bless something that God calls an abomination? But as a pastor, as an elder, as a
01:53:41: Christian, as a podcaster yourself, I think we point people to 1
01:53:48: Corinthians 6, where Paul says, you know, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
01:53:58: Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, that's all of us, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, very specific group of people there, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God, and such were some of you.
01:54:17: And here's the beautiful part, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the
01:54:23: Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God. You were not made clean by a pastor, a podcaster, a priest, or the
01:54:33: Pope telling you that you're clean. You're made clean by coming to Christ, and being washed, and being sanctified, and being justified by accepting him and his work on your behalf.
01:54:45: And this is what we as people, as Christians, need to know and point to, and that's where sola scriptura is the dividing line between us and the cults, us, and the places that are going to tell you something that is going to tickle your ears, which is exactly what
01:55:07: Paul warned against. Amen. And for anybody to continually regurgitate the lie, as Roman Catholic apologists still do, that sola scriptura is the blueprint for anarchy, or a blueprint for anarchy, is absolutely mind -blowingly ridiculous, because in saying so, they are actually having the audacity to say that it is safer for Christians to have a
01:55:45: Pope as their shepherd and guide, and to view him as their vicar of Christ, Christ's representative on earth, when he has gone so far, as you have mentioned, to bless same -sex unions, whether he recognizes them as marriages or not, it is still absolutely damningly heretical to bless a relationship that the
01:56:13: Word of God calls an abomination, unnatural, and damnable. And to say that that is a safer guide than the
01:56:20: God -breathed words of Scripture is lunacy. Absolute mind -boggling lunacy is the only way
01:56:29: I can describe it. And what makes it even more remarkable is that Roman Catholics, at least those that are historically true to authentic Roman Catholicism, they agree with us that the
01:56:47: Scriptures are God -breathed. They don't believe that they're sufficient, but they believe that they are God -breathed, and how could you possibly believe that a
01:56:56: God -breathed book or compilation of books is inadequate and you need someone like a
01:57:06: Pope who, when not speaking ex cathedra according to your teaching, can lead the flock of Rome in all kinds of damning and heretical and blasphemous directions?
01:57:22: It's absolutely mind -blowing. Go ahead. No, if I could just say this presents for us, if we're in prayer and we're looking for opportunities to share with others, this presents for us a wonderful opportunity to witness to our
01:57:38: Roman Catholic family, friends, and neighbors. If in March the
01:57:44: Pope said, I don't have that authority, and then in December, March of 2021, and then in December of 2023, he does a complete 180 and insists upon the authority, most thinking people, when seeing that, even if they agree that that's what needs to be done by the
01:57:59: Pope, will say, well, at one point the Pope was wrong. He was either wrong in March or he's wrong in December of 2023, and I think that that's a wonderful opportunity for us to just point out what
01:58:13: God's Word says, both about these things, right, about that it's a sin and that you can be changed and washed and cleaned and sanctified, and it just, it gives us this opportunity, and about what it says about our heart, that man's heart cannot be trusted.
01:58:30: So why would we trust the Pope's heart? He's a man just like you are. And we are out of time, and if you want more information about Harborview Christian Church in Port Jefferson, Long Island, visit
01:58:41: Harborview Christian Church, I'm sorry, harborviewchristian .church. Harborviewchristian .church.
01:58:50: And folks, please make sure you tune in tomorrow and Friday, because we have Dr. James R.
01:58:55: White of Alpha Omega Ministries on two days in a row here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I want you all to always remember the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater