Secularist Supremacy and Molinism on Today's Dividing Line

I could tell that rich was greatly tempted to fire up the camera a little bit early. Because I was air guitaring the the theme there, and I could just see See the look. I just I just knew what he had had planned.

We're gonna do at the break. Whenever the break is if we go. I'm not sure whether we're doing a jumbo today or a mega today all depends on how things go. But at the break We'll play all of the new theme song all the way through so you can hear the whole thing if you would like.

Opening the Show and Setting Up the Day's Topics

So welcome to the divine line. My name is James white and we have a lot to cover today. I mentioned on Twitter that I was I mentioned to RF updates, which is a reasonable faith updates. Which is William Lane Craig's ministry that we are going to be responding to.

Finally getting around to respond to the William Lane Craig Paul Helm debate on unbelievable today. But we've got a couple other things got to get to right at the beginning so hopefully no more than 15 20 minutes I don't know depends and Then we will get into that particular discussion as many people have been asking for a review of that only one hour of interaction and It goes very quickly believe me.

It was barely What it was 10 months ago or so that I did the NT right discussion on unbelievable and that hour I think we went an hour and 15 minutes. This was only an out. Well, I did cut out a little bit of the intro so it was it was short, but obviously our hope continues to be.

That's the folks at reasonable faith realize that we stand ready to do this do a debate in a formal setting. I think that a lot of people would be blessed. I think the students at Talbot Biola would be blessed.

I think there would be a great turnout there was what 2 ,500 3 ,000 people that turned out for the debate with Shabir Ali at Biola and I said at that time I would be more than happy to come there and to debate apologetic methodology Calvinism.

With William Lane Craig there at Biola and no one has taken me up quite yet on that invitation. But that is well within driving distance here, or if dr. Craig lives in Georgia. Would like to arrange a debate in Georgia.

I'm sure we could find a church in the Georgia area that would host such a debate and I would be happy to travel to Georgia. I have family in Georgia now and so I would love to see my granddaughter and daughter and son-in-law there in Georgia and So we can make this happen, and I don't think there's any question if if dr. Craig is willing to debate Paul Helm.

Then let's look at the number of people that dr. Craig, and I have both debated. People like John Dominic Crossan and Marcus Borg and Shabir Ali leaders in their fields. I don't think there is any other Reformed Voice that has as much experience in public debate as I do.

I'd right now I just if I could be wrong if someone wants to suggest someone Who's done more than 135 moderated public debates all around the world? But we have proven more than once our capacity to enter into this subject in a meaningful fashion and in a scholarly fashion and So I really think that now that dr. Craig has engaged in debate on this subject that you should really give consideration to doing it on a on a real basis on a full basis and We stand ready to to do that so before we get into that however I Want to mention a couple things.

Secular Censorship in Britain and the Suppression of Christian Speech

One is a story that actually is a little older this is from January 6th, and I didn't know anything about this. I don't know anything about film or movie TV shows in Britain but January 6 2014 there is a program in In England.

Well, let me just read you here. It's official you are no longer allowed to express old-fashioned religious views on British TV. You'll certainly be censured for doing so and will be warned never to repeat your wicked words.

This is a take-home lesson of the Vander Holyfield controversy. Holyfield a former heavyweight boxing champ is currently on Celebrity Big Brother. What is Celebrity Big Brother? I've never on channel 5 they have so few channels over there.

You can just name the channel 5 and it's true. I've been there believe me trust me. It's bad. Huh oh. It's it's yeah. Oh I'm British TV, man. It's I. The one thing when I go over there is I don't have to worry about being distracted by five.

Oh, I want to catch what's ever on British TV. You know let's watch the BBC in the morning. It's just That hurt actually it's just that bad. I gotta go back get a freeze-frame of that. That's sharp right there.

Wow look at that I have a mark up there. It's just that it's just that mind numbingly bad. It's just They must inject all of their people in the morning news with some kind of Sedation before they get out there anyways.

On Saturday night in a chat with a fellow contestant he expressed his Bible-informed belief that homosexuality is not natural. The Bible lets you know. There's wrong. There's right. He said and from his reading the Bible. He has deduced that homosexuality ain't normal.

He also expressed the view held by some Christian groups that homosexuality can be fixed through some kind of therapeutic intervention. Wow. What hate speech? Are his views outdated. Absolutely are they wrong.

This writer says I believe so and many other was little too. Are they offensive to some. I'm sure they were. But should Holyfield and anyone else who is invited on to TV Precisely to express him or herself and to be real be allowed to give voice to such moral beliefs.

I think they should. Channel 5 takes a very different view. Shortly after he made his comments Holyfield was hauled into the diary room. What's the diary room and told by Big Brother that is one of the producers of the show.

Yeah? I'm not sure I'd want to go on any show called Big Brother. I mean really honestly this is England you know. Remember 1984. No nobody does. That he had used unacceptable language. Now remember they're pushing all the boundaries for all the most Disgusting language you could ever use, but that's unacceptable language.

Keep that in mind for our second story what they meant was that he had expressed an unacceptable idea. He had not used the Q word or the F word to refer to gay people. He had simply expressed an idea his inner beliefs that homosexuality is wrong.

He was told the expression of such views would not be Tolerated. You expressed the view that being gay was not normal and could be fixed said Big Brother while Big Brother realizes these are the views you hold they are not the views held by many people in society and Expressing these views will be seen as offensive to many people.

I Mean I just I just see again. Wells Nailed it here. I mean this is this is just you know the Ministry of Truth speaking. It's it's here it arrived, and it's got control of the media. This is extraordinary.

What channel 5 is effectively saying is that it's okay for Holyfield to possess very outdated views about gay people. But he is not allowed to express them because they are not shared by many people in society.

So what are we now only permitted to express views that chime with the mainstream outlook. Uh-huh? That's secularism folks you need to get you need get something straight in your mind. The secularist worldview cannot Brooke dissent.

It cannot Brooke dissent because it cannot engage dissent. It does not have a a foundation within itself to be able to do so. So yes, that's exactly right. Are no minority opinions whether they come from Christians or commies or 9-eleven truthers allowed even on a TV show it prides itself on capturing real life and interactions.

Whatever happened to the great liberal John Stuart Mills insistence that quote if all mankind Minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one Person then he would be justified in silencing mankind today.

So cavalier have we become about the old million ideal of freedom of thought and speech for all even for those who offend us that? We think nothing of censoring a man simply for expressing a view that is not held by many people in society.

Big brother indeed. Well. Yeah. Exactly right, that's the whole point now keeping that in mind. We go to a more recent story. This a story is also from the UK, but it's January 14th. The official body with responsibility for judicial conduct in the UK has chastised a leading high court judge Who is also a Christian over comments asserting that biblical marriage is the best option for society.

Sir, Paul Coleridge was given a formal warning by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office. J-C-I-O Also known as big brother. Because he promoted biblical marriage as more stable for children in society than other alternatives.

Oh No chaos in the streets. In an article published in The Telegraph last July Coleridge said. Stability is the name of the game and comparatively speaking that means marriage. Folks this is just such basic common sense such basic common sense.

That for someone to be rebuked for this means that our society at least British society. And we know this could happen here at any day. Has lost its collective mind. This is judgment. This is this is a withdrawal of the most basic elements of restraint its insanity.

Goes on he also angered homosexual rights campaigners and MPs last year when he gave an interview describing homosexual marriage as a minority issue. And the sky is blue when the Sun is up, too. I mean Wow.

A J-C-I-O Spokesperson said they took into account the articles and interviews before deciding to issue a formal warning. Yes. We are big brother. You are not thinking properly. The Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief Justice Considered mr. Justice Coleridge decision to give an interview and to participate in the article to be incompatible with his judicial responsibilities, he said and therefore amounts to judicial misconduct.

Coleridge we found the think-tank marriage foundation aimed at encountering biblical marriage and combating divorce recently said the decision was Disproportionate and unfair reaction to a few lines in two newspapers.

Okay, so now you got a judge being told don't don't don't you say that don't you say that. And Finally to the last of the stories January 14th two days ago the parents of a this is the United States of America.

This is to make it. Well, okay. I'm sorry. It's actually, California. I Got the Studio audience like that one. This is the People's Republic of California which in many ways really isn't the United States any longer.

But it's all going the same direction. So anyways the parents of a six-year-old girl Said their daughter was humiliated when a teacher interrupt the child's one-minute speech and told her to sit down.

Because she's quote not allowed to talk about the Bible in school and quote attorneys for the California family allege. The incident occurred December 19th inside a first-grade classroom at Helen Hunt Jackson.

Helen Hunt Jackson elementary Elementary school in Temecula, California. The previous day the teacher in that listen to this listen to this I'm gonna start putting something softer so I can beat my head against it because It'll feel better.

The previous day the teacher instructed boys and girls to find something at home. That represented a family ready for this folks Christmas tradition. Now, um, I just want to point out that within the word Christmas.

It's a compound word and there's this like this word Christ, which is really mainly religious. I Mentioned that they were supposed to bring down to school and share the item in a classroom presentation.

What that sounds nice. Bryn Williams decided to bring the star of Bethlehem that adorned the top of her family's Christmas tree. Now, I hope she got some help getting it down. Because when you're only in first grade, this could be a bad thing.

She also worked on a one-minute presentation to explain that her family's tradition is to remember the birth of Jesus at Christmastime. Our Christmas tradition is to put a star on top of our tree little girl said.

The star is named the star of Bethlehem. The three Kings followed the star to find baby Jesus the Savior of the world. Before the child could utter another world. Here comes big brother. Big brother has to sweep in.

The the jack-booted thugs landed from the black helicopters before the Get utter. I'm sorry folks, but the level of insanity. The absolute lack of common sense on the part of adults these days just makes me go.

Really? Seriously. Before the child could utter another word. The teacher intervened according to Robert Tyler the General Counsel for advocates for faith and freedom. The law firm representing the Williams family.

Bryn's teacher said stop right there. Go take your seat. Bryn was not allowed to finish her presentation by reciting the Bible verse John 3 16. Which is behind every touchdown in the NFL, but we can't quote it.

We can show it but we can't quote it. Tyler said the little girl was the only student in the class not allowed to finish her presentation. Now this sounds a little this sounds a little familiar to me.

It's been a few years, but remember what happened with my daughter in high school, uh-huh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Here we go. After Bryn took her seat the teacher explained to Bryn in front of all the other students that she was not allowed to talk about the Bible or share its verses Tyler said.

Now, can you imagine? This happened. Anyway, Gina Williams learned about the incident after she picked her daughter up from school. She thought she had done something wrong. She told me she thought she was in trouble.

I told her she was not in trouble and I was proud of her. I tried to comfort her on the way home the following day Williams met with the principal. Yeah been there done that the principal confirmed that Bryn's teacher did the appropriate thing by stopping her mid-presentation and there are specific education codes that protect the school.

Oh. The principal then asked Bryn who had tears in her eyes to come into her office and deliver the same presentation that was censored in the classroom. Afterwards the principal stood by her decision.

That's right because principals tend to be brainwashed anymore. Oh My goodness, I'm sorry. But is there anyone is there any thinking human being on the planet that can think that any one of the founding fathers anyone who touched the Constitution in signing it let alone writing it would have ever thought that this could ever happen not a Single one of them.

So if you think that's good Then you are a revolutionary and you are proving that you want to overthrow the Constitution of the United States. If the Constitution United States still has any meaning in any way shape or form and Anyways, yes, sir, you you obviously I'm quite sure that had a first grade little boy come in with a pole and stood next to the pole and started talking about a Tradition that was designed to mock the Christian faith and Christmas called Festivus or a spaghetti cauldron.

Right the spaghetti monster is not only would he have been able to finish probably would've gotten a Definitely I. We are seeing so many of These Stories that we're starting to get numb to him. We're starting to get numb to him and that's that's that's what they want.

We are it's just becoming so commonplace that what they want is that by doing this and then there's some pushback next time there's less pushback the next time there's less pushback and By doing this eventually we Christians just get the idea shut up.

Shut up. We don't want to hear it. Go away. Everybody else could say whatever they want to say and That's exactly what's what's going on. But you tell the little girl sit down. We can't do that. I can't do that little girl.

My well, there you go. At the same time The same time I'm gonna go ahead and mention this I wasn't going to but let me just mention this real quickly. There was an interesting article. I'm gonna go to the original here View original there we go.

There was an interesting article in the comment section of Christian today by David Robertson now unless I'm Confusing my people and I don't think that I am but I could be I could be I think this is the same David Robertson That did the Revelation TV debate with Peter Tatchell just a couple weeks ago, and maybe some of my listeners in In the UK can correct me on that if I'm wrong but I think and I think the same David Robertson that's been on unbelievable and May have been on on Roman Catholicism before which led to me being on Roman Catholicism as well if I recall correctly I'll stop doing that.

I hate when they put these these ads in that have Embedded videos that automatically start playing with audio just drives me nuts especially when they They they refresh them like 10 minutes later, and you're in another part of the room going.

What what and you know and it's it's in a it's in a it's in a tab that is no longer even open. And you've you've got three browsers up, and you're sitting Closing everything because they've stuck a video in your in one of your browsers, and you can't find it.

It's talking about detergent or something you just want to shoot the entire computer. Anyhow, I think this is the same David Robertson if I recall correctly. And He wrote an article in regards to the Tony Miano Arrest in Dundee, Scotland and Here's here's what I said, I'm just gonna read it.

I I I Struggle with this and you can struggle along with me. Um. However, let me offer another Christian perspective despite the fact that I know even to question the orthodoxy of the persecution Narrative in the UK is to open oneself up to charges of backsliding Theological liberalism cowardice and shooting the wounded.

I am a Bible believing teaching evangelizing pastor in the wonderful city of Dundee. Which is where he was which is where Tony was arrested. I administered here for 22 years and have seen a church of seven grow in a church of 200 plus an increasing gospel impact.

It is hard work. There is an ignorance arrogance and increasing intolerance that make it. So there is a famine of hearing the word of the Lord and yet there are many opportunities to give out the bread of life.

The Christian churches in a city do tremendous work in schools on the streets amongst the young we preach the word. We write in local newspapers and engage in all kinds of creative evangelism. Sola's Center for public Christianity is based here and We have not been shy in critiquing the dominant cultural narratives or seeking to bring the good news in a public arena.

That is after all our raison d 'etre. We have many problems, but here is the rub. We have the freedom to do so. We are not banned from preaching the Word of God nor are restricted for now in doing so.

So whatever else the arrest of Tony Miano means it is dishonest and wrong for Christians to say that means the gospel cannot be preached in Scotland today. Of course the implied criticism is that those of us who are living and working here as Christians are not a Preaching the quote full and quote gospel or be getting out onto the streets communicating it.

The truth of course is there are many churches which compromise and there are Christians who are frightened and cowardly in their proclamation. But that is not all of us from my perspective having worked hard in the city to build up good public relations with the police council and local community groups having tried to overcome the narrow and ignorant stereotypes of Christians that many people have here and Having sought to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ in many different ways and context.

However imperfectly the last thing we needed was an American preacher standing in our city center with an amplification system. Shouting out words that no one understands getting arrested and then finding it front page news in the Dundee Courier the next day.

Don't get me wrong. I use the word American not because I have anything against Americans to whom I owe a great deal. But because in our cultural context evangelical Christianity is associated with redneck George Bush like southern US evangelicals.

Like all stereotypes that is not fair not least on the many fine American Christians. Including those of my own congregation who are seeking to bear witness to Jesus Christ in a culturally spiritually and humanly sensitive way.

But that is the perception that the man in the street has and if we are seeking to communicate to the man in the street Then we need to take account of that perception. If we seek to be faithful to Jesus Christ Then we are to obey his words and be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.

That means in a culture where homosexuality is seen as a shibboleth issue and homophobia is the sin against the Holy State both H and S Capitalized then you cannot stand on a street corner and shout out a sentence which includes Homosexuality and sin the same phrase without expecting some kind of violent reaction.

That the Apostle Paul stay on the streets of Rome and yell out Caesar is not Lord. Did he parade the streets with banners declaring down with the Antichrist Emperor? Being put in jail in Scotland for preaching the gospel will play well with the supporters back home and Christians in the UK who are Desperate to jump on the persecution bandwagon, but in terms of communicating the good news to the people of my city.

It is not helpful. And Now it just decided to there see it there goes it decided to refresh itself so it can put a new video in. Right in the middle of my trying to read it and it's a different video.

And yes, it is playing the new video. I guess that's what you get for advertisements. But in terms of communicating the news to the people my city it is not helpful. In fact to be honest, it does the church and the gospel harm both in the short and long term.

The short term it reinforces the cultural stereotypes and ignorant prejudices of those who already think we are mad and bad. The longer term it means that when real persecution does occur the kind that our brothers and sisters are facing in many countries throughout the world.

No one will notice it will simply shrug their shoulders and say there go the Christians again moaning about persecution. Let's not cry wolf until the wolf is actually at the door and in future. Is it too much to ask that self-appointed evangelist and ministries might actually have the humility and Christian courtesy to liaise?

With local Christian churches before they minister in our name to our people or are we simply to be those who are left to pick? Up the pieces and deal with the consequences of the inevitable train wreck.

Well That's interesting. That's interesting. Um, is there no connection? Is there no? Liaise between the people coming in and the local churches. And Did would Paul it's a good question, you know. Did the Apostle Paul stand the streets of Rome and yell out Caesar is not Lord.

Well, he certainly wrote it. He certainly wrote that Jesus is Lord and that there is no other Lord. But Where do we find the balance. Because I I certainly when we were out in in Salt Lake City and Mesa.

We saw street preachers come out there that who were just absolutely positively a part of God's judgment on the Mormon people they shut down every bit of Meaningful conversation they really did. Um. Did he pray the streets with banners declaring down with the Antichrist Emperor but at the same time at the same time.

If you are standing on the street corner and you're presenting the gospel you have to talk about sin. You cannot speak of of Salvation without defining what you need to be saved from and that's sin, right?

And we know that these people are specifically seeking to to have a reason to complain to the police and to use these unjust laws and. So what are you gonna do if you're staying there and you're saying all you're saying is that?

God is holy. We all know in our hearts and minds that every one of us has sinned against God. And someone says Is homosexuality a sin? What are you gonna do? You're gonna go say I can't talk about that.

And if you say The Bible says that it is boom. You're uh, you're in jail so. No, no, no, no, that's um. That's a question. No, it seems to me. It's not like Paul was a resident of Thessalonica or Berea when he was passing through he yeah.

But there weren't any churches there. He was the one founding him. Well, if he had gone going into a place, there was a church. Would you not have contacted the the bishop of that church? I think you probably would have yeah.

So I think of the early days when we went to Salt Lake City. Yeah, we didn't ask about any of the churches there wasn't anybody out there doing anything. Yeah, I mean. And in fact some of those were the ones telling us like I said in the last show.

You can't reach those people. They're too hard-hearted. Yeah, you'll never get through to them. Yeah. Good question. Good question. I I'm hmm. Did he did he did he did he did he did he? I don't think he's amused.

Ah. That's interesting. Sorry. I'm reading something on Twitter here, and I guess The we flee I'm not hurt sure who the we flee is. Oh Yes, okay, there you go, that's somebody in Dundee so maybe that's that is Ava Robertson right there and it says I don't think he's amused.

Did I give some sense that I was Unhappy with with mr. Robertson. I didn't I said, I'm not sure how to answer these questions. I don't know where to find the balance. I think it's something we all gotta keep talking about, but I'm reading it I let people know about it.

I didn't just skip over it. So I'm not sure who the surge mg is but surge stop telling people that I'm upset with him. I wasn't upset with him. I think he made some good points. I'm just not sure I think I Think there is a balance Paul has to say Caesar is not Lord.

He has to say it. But it's can it be put into a context. Well, well here let's put this way I don't think That the people promoting homosexuality in our society are rational people. They're not fair they're not honest and When you call the cops the way they're calling the cops, I just don't know how you could say anything About the gospel without offending these people.

So I don't know where to find them where to find the balance, but you kind of wonder at some point in time If they don't get the something to sink their teeth into they're gonna make something up. I Mean, you know People are just gonna start saying well He said this and he said that when you never said any of it but anything to get you out of there because that's really the point of it all and And Disgust it hi, this is live There okay anyways, well something to think about I think it's important and We'll see what happens with it now.

Let's get to let's get to to normally what I would have done in the past and it's right at 330 I suppose we could do it, but there's no reason to Normally what this would have been a radio-free Geneva.

But I wanted to throw some other things in there and I wanted to hear the new theme anyway, so but this this is generally where we would have done radio-free Geneva, but Yes, people in channeling. Are you actually typing to people on Twitter?

Yes. I'm a multitasker. What can I say? It also means that my my attention span is way shorter than it should be. Two things first of all over here on this screen I have this Massive explosion of color, which is not a picture of one of my Coogee sweaters.

It is the actual audio file of Why is that? That's pretty much everything of the unbelievable radio broadcast between William Lane Craig and Paul Helm before I do that since that aired a What's it called defenders broadcast it's called defenders.

There's two things there's a he does an apologetic sayings it is Sunday school thing. This is Sunday school thing. This was Doctrine of Man number 17 and I started listening to it. I Did not listen to all of it.

I started listening to it and said I okay We all know that William Lane Craig is an Armenian synergist nothing new here. But then someone this morning Directed me to a Six six minute video that I can tell came from the same one because William Lane Craig has this really cool yellow sweater on.

No, no, no. No, it was somebody else in Twitter this morning. No, no, no, that was the whole thing. He did we talked about the we need to get me a pretty yellow sweater. So, you know, it'd be great I'm sticking with the Coogee.

I'm not going with the yellow sweater. I will out out shine him with one of my many Coogee's. Stop putting your head in your hands. Coogee's are beautiful. Anyway, and they also also confuse your opponent, especially if you move causes nausea.

No, I just revealed one of my great debating secrets the use of psychotropics psychotropic sweaters in in debate will be a blog article I'll put up soon anyway um. This is a six-minute segment of an audience question from that Sunday school lesson.

Obviously a Calvinist who is reading R .C. Sproul and going this stuff low sounds really weird. Engaged him in a in a bit of a conversation. And I think it's relevant to some of the comments that he makes in the unbelievable broadcast.

I'm gonna play this first and then we'll start working through the unbelievable Unbelievable presentation as well. So let's uh, let's listen to this portion from the Bible say class that so in Lane Craig just recently did I don't think the.

Reformers would disagree about the who. Which you've been talking about the who? Stuck on the how and I don't believe you've discussed that as well as I would like. It seems like to me. You are very close to the Reformers in in saying well some of the things about what they.

You've changed their idea of how a person does it. My question is if a person's dead in his sins. Yeah, Ephesians 2 5 and God draws him. That idea of drawing is like you're taking something from a well God does it all and we're dead.

We're not sticking our hand up saying please help me. We're dead. We can't do anything if you believe in total depravity. So the whole thing to me goes back to total depravity. We are not able to do any of this.

So God must change our will and where you say he draws us I think the Reformers would say he does draw us in that the Holy Spirit changes our want to we never do want to. We're all sinful all of us. Everyone is sinful.

So we can't do it on ourselves. He must change us in some ways so that we are able to do that work and that's through the Holy Spirit.

Not of our own self. Well, I think the difference between what I'm saying The Reformers would come out most clearly with regard to whether grace is irresistible on the view that I'm Suggesting it is not irresistible.

I would say that we're always resisting.

We're all constantly resisting until he changes our want to resist. Yeah, and I I'm disagreeing with that.

I'm saying that a person can freely respond to God's grace and the drawing on his heart.

And that it's it's not Irresistible. So obviously one of the major issues that we've had all along and this has come up when we look Theology determines apologetics. Your theology must determine your apologetics.

It cannot be otherwise. Even if you start as I continue to believe and have more and more evidence all the time That William Lane Craig does even if you start With philosophical presuppositions as your primary source and then construct a theology that Most closely matches the philosophy philosophy you've you've embraced and and have made the center point of your of your work still That is only going to get you so far and You're still gonna be stuck with the fact that It's theology That is first and foremost going to a lot going to define what you can and cannot say.

I mean remember Illustration remember William Lane Craig debate Shabir Ali and the middle of the debate was he say well, you know that original sin stuff I'm not gonna you know, we're not there's a lot of different views on that and stuff like how can you engage a Muslim on? a soteriological subject and Be squishy on whether man Fell in Adam or didn't that affects that affects man's mind and here it's coming out here and and look Bill Craig is on Rome's side not the Reformation's side on his view of man.

He's on Rome's side and his view of grace as well. So, you know and this is nothing new. I remember sometime since 2005 because I was back on the bike again. I remember Pedaling along the Arizona Canal listening to the defenders class and then we played it on the air and we went through what he said About election and the free will of man and you know, there's nothing new here.

We have this is this is not we're not announcing anything new a William Lane Craig is a synergist there is no question about the fact that he's a synergist and he embraces the Very Wesleyan, but it came into Wesley from Rome concept of prevenient grace that wonderful Catch-all phrase that I still have not found anyone to define it meaningfully or to exegetically demonstrate even its existence.

But it's that wonderful thing where God doesn't really try to save but just makes it possible for you to respond positively that kind of grace Still looking for that Bible passage, but have never found it so anyway That's that's none of that is new all of that is is is very very well known but the fact the matter is Here's an illustration That if you don't have a if you don't start With God's revelation and then move to your understanding of the world start with theology go to philosophy.

It's gonna end up being extremely unbiblical extremely weak.

And that's exactly what we have here. And now this gets into other issues, but. It is related to whether or not God really wants all persons to be saved. I take very seriously these passages in the New Testament that says God is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance.

God's Desires that all persons be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Now if you take those passages Literally and at face value that must mean that God does not choose to give saving grace to some persons.

He doesn't change their want to as you put it. Yeah, that's called election and.

Here at Face value at face value. I have never heard and this is why again Dr. Craig, let's debate those texts. Let's debate those texts. Let's do it at Biola. Let's let's let's do it on the campus or or do it there in Atlanta wherever and let's Let's do it in something more than an unbelievable style one hour.

Because there's just not enough time. But let's go through first Timothy 2. Let's go second. Let's go through 2nd Peter 3 9. Let's exegete these texts and let's not just go. Well, you know, there's been some people said this no.

Let's exegete them just as in the unbelievable program. Dr. Craig started talking about well, you know in Ephesians Tutah is neuter and therefore faith is not the gift. Okay, let's talk about that. We're gonna be talking about that.

Let's get into the text and so It's not enough to say well Let you know, I'm not I'm not a theologian or I'm not an exegete. I'm a philosopher. No you bring these things up and Right here. You're saying well, I take these texts at face value.

Well, I tech take them at exegetical value. I take them in their context and I take all the Bible in that way and I don't believe that your position can withstand Critical examination and to be honest with you.

My concern really is That what I've heard I've heard this more than once William Lane Craig gets asked the question. Well Uh. What what theologians have influenced you the most what's his response? None, really.