What is Marriage and When is Divorce ok | Season 3 Episode 3

As Hunter said last week, this is the only podcast. It's just me and Anna today, and today we're going to talk about marriage.

But before we do, we need to talk about how funny I am. I just made a joke, and the camera crew laughed.

And what we're going to do is, on Wednesday during Bible study, I'm going to tell a joke. And if nobody laughs,

I won't tell another joke for a month. Church members could watch this, and still it's going to happen.

I stole this from Facebook. You ready? Taylor will like this.

I got fired from the bank last week. A woman came in and asked me to check her balance, so I pushed her.

See? Right there. I mean, I'm one for one already. See, Dalton's just shaking his head.

Lowell laughed. Taylor's heard it twice, and she's laughing. And then Nick's trying to deny it. Nick's pretending to be busy with the camera when he's really just trying not to laugh.

See, he just laughed again. All right, we've got to talk about marriage. What is it?

What's the biblical definition? What is not marriage? What's the Bible say about divorce and all that stuff? But before we talk about marriage,

I believe Anna has a hot take for us. I have a hot take. So we just celebrated Thanksgiving.

Man, this is so much better without Hunter. It is. We should just do two of them. We love you, Hunter. We miss you.

So Thanksgiving was Thursday at the time of filming this a few days ago.

I have a hot take that sweet potato casserole is a dessert and not a side.

That's not a hot take. That's a fact. No, because I've had people fight me. Mike Burkett, he fought me at Thanksgiving.

You can hold a camera and shake your head all you want. What are you talking about? Sweet potato casserole is a side for you.

It's an awesome dessert. For Dalton, it's a side. Nick, do you have? He doesn't have an opinion.

Chattanooga. So if you do the brown sugar marshmallow stuff. What about the crumble topping with the pecans like your wife made?

She made that at Friendsgiving. She had pecans and bacon. This makes it tough.

It was really good. This makes it tough. Taylor? Side? I still think it's a dessert.

I think it's a dessert too. This plays into our game later. We'll come back to that. Unlike Hunter, I'm not going to create a game and then lose at it.

He definitely lost last week's game. By the way, every single person that's part of the podcast, all eight.

Seven of the eight people agreed that Hunter lost the game last week. Yes, he did. He's the only person that says he didn't.

All right. Yeah, I definitely think it's a. I shouldn't say definitely.

I think it's a dessert. But I do think there's some gray area there. I'll be honest. There is there's some gray. OK, I'll allow it.

Anna. Yes. Definition of marriage. Take your first stab at it.

When I think of marriage, a biblical marriage, I think of two people making a covenant with God.

And that's marriage. Right. And I think that God, since he's the creator of marriage, gets to define the parameters of it.

You know, we're not going to do the whole. We're not necessarily going to jump into homosexuality again.

We did that back on previous episodes. But I don't think most people are aware that.

The Bible is the originator of marriage. Governments decided that was good for their society to promote that because it made stable families.

But the originator of marriage is God. He's the creator of it. So he gets to decide the parameters of it.

It's kind of like what's her name? J .K. Rowling gets to decide the carriages of Harry Potter. She is the creator of it.

God is the creator of marriage. He gets to decide what it is. And I would agree with Anna. It is a covenant with two people, a man and a woman, one man, one woman, the two making a covenant before God.

That would be a marriage. And whenever we talk about what's your view of marriage, what's the biblical view of marriage,

I always tell people I never want to have a view different than Jesus. I never want to have a view different than Jesus.

So I just want to read for you all Jesus' view of marriage. This is Matthew chapter 19. I'll start in verse 3.

And the Pharisees came up. Hold on, I'm getting a call here. I'm going to shut that up.

And the Pharisees came up to test him by asking, Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?

Now, we'll get into divorce in a minute. But the Pharisees are asking, Is it lawful to divorce one's wife? Now, if you aren't familiar with this, they're asking this as a trap because they have followed a set of beliefs that said a man could divorce a woman for any cause, any cause he wanted.

And Jesus knows that's what they're getting at. So Jesus says, Have you not read that he created them from the beginning, made them male and female, and said,

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast unto his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

He's quoting from Genesis. So Jesus' view of marriage is that which was always from the beginning, from the book of Genesis.

By the way, that should tell us Jesus' view of Genesis and the rest of the

Bible. One man, one woman, the two becoming one flesh. That is, leaving the authority of his father, a man shall leave his father and mother, make a new household, cleave unto his wife, and the two will become one flesh.

So that's Jesus' view of marriage. It's pretty straightforward. That means that anything that is not that cannot be called marriage, at least in the biblical sense of it.

So when we talk about what is marriage, I just wanted to show that because I think a lot of people think that we have the right to decide what that is when in fact

Jesus, God, already declared what marriage is a long time before you and I ever existed.

So if that's what marriage is, Miss Anna, what would marriage not be? Polygamy, because what does it say?

The two will become one flesh. That one verse gets rid of a lot of ideas. Same -sex marriages.

Right. Obviously we talked about that previously. We did, and it's just another case of it's not that I don't recognize.

That's not marriage. In one sense, and this is not an insult, it's just a fact, there's no such thing as same -sex marriage because that's not marriage.

It doesn't exist. You would almost have to put it in quotations every time you use it because it doesn't exist. It's just not a thing.

Within the government, the American government, there is marriage. And if you believe that is the definer of marriage, then there is such a thing as same -sex marriage.

But if you believe that God gets to define that, then there isn't. And you know,

I think the local church is important here. Nothing could be confirmed without the testimony of two to three witnesses.

That's, by the way, why we still have witnesses at our weddings now. Therefore, the next topic, which is,

Anna, kind of what you wanted to get into, what are the biblical allowances for divorce?

So what do we have? What are some that we know of? Sexual immorality. Jesus says in this chapter sexual immorality would be one.

The only other one we can think of, is that my fault? Okay. The only other one that sometimes is used is the idea of an abandonment of the covenant from 1

Corinthians 8. Long story short, there are only one or two exceptions that allow for divorce.

So true biblical Christians only have a disagreement about the number one or two.

That's it. That's why Christians should care a lot about divorce, because there's only a couple of allowances for it.

We talk about what marriage is, what it's not. There's only a couple exceptions for divorce.

When the Pharisees are asking Jesus this question, it's because in the book of Deuteronomy, God talks about if a man divorces a woman, he must write her a certificate, which is a way for her not to be punished, a way for her not to have judgment brought upon her.

They took that as a man can divorce a woman for any reason whatsoever, which is not what

Jesus says. Jesus says no, you go back from the beginning. That's not what it was ever intended to be. So, with that being said, what if,

Anna, we come across somebody who is unequally yoked, as we say, who is married to an unbeliever, how should they handle that now?

If the believer is wanting a divorce from the unbeliever, you got yourself into this and you made a covenant, whether it was to that person, if they're not a believer, you made a covenant with God.

And to me, well, granted, this is my opinion. If you make a covenant to God, whether that other person is a believer or not, you made that promise and you need to uphold your end of the deal.

If it's not within the parameters of the few reasons of divorce.

Like that example that I gave you before the podcast started of that one woman, she was a believer, and she's like, well, my husband and I, we grew apart, we just don't have anything in common.

I'm like, okay, we'll get over it, find a new hobby. That's not a biblical reason for divorce. Right, it's like find a new hobby to, you know, do together.

It's like, that's ridiculous. It's like, are you a child and just, you know, you just want to get out of something because it's difficult and it's just not fun anymore?

I could think of several ways someone can find themselves in that scenario, where they're married to an unbeliever.

One, they both were unbelievers when they got married, and now one of them has become a believer since then.

So now, what do they do? Now they, okay, so think about that scenario, and maybe some of you listening have been in that scenario before.

You were both unbelievers when you got married, and you were converted, you were saved in the middle of that marriage.

Now, by biblical standard, you are unequally yoked. At the same time, is that really a qualification for divorce because you entered into that covenant?

The other side of the argument would be, but you didn't enter into that covenant with God. Right. Another way that you could find yourself in that scenario is you sinned, knowingly married an unbeliever, and now are convicted about it.

And maybe finally, you thought the person you married was a Christian when they in fact are not, or later revealed that they were not.

So you know, like, missionary dating. Yeah, I mean, so -called.

So -called missionary dating, where you date somebody to try to convert them. Okay, so what about, like, missionary marriages?

The problem with that is, again, as you have already said, and we already said, since marriage is a covenant between two people and God, that shouldn't be a thing.

Because if it's a covenant with two people and God, they're most submitted to God. There shouldn't be such a thing as missionary marriages.

But there are. There are because of one of the three scenarios we just said. Right. And I would argue,

I would argue that if someone converts in the middle of their marriage, that their first instinct should not be to divorce their unbelieving spouse.

I don't think that should be their first instinct. There is a chapter of the

Bible dedicated to what a woman does if she's married to an unbelieving husband.

Is that in Ephesians? It's 1 Peter chapter 3. And nowhere in that section does it say divorce them.

Nowhere. Now again, Peter does not specify how she got herself into that scenario.

Could be that she sinned. Could be that she became a believer halfway through. Could be that she thought he was a believer and is not.

Peter doesn't specify. In none of those cases does it say, so your first instinct should be to divorce him. It says, win him over with submission, servitude, kindness.

Be an example. Tender heartedness. That's exactly what it says. Just a quick side note.

That example of the reverse is not mentioned in the Bible. There is not a long teaching in the

Bible about what happens when a man is married to an unbelieving woman. Right. And I think there is a reason for that. I think that typically we see in the

Bible when a man repents before God, the family soon follows after him. So I think that would be why you don't see that in the

Bible. I mean, we do see that where a man repents and the family soon follows. Cornelius, the

Gentile convert, I think we see that time and time again. So, when we go back to what do we do in those scenarios,

I don't think the first reaction should be divorce. I think the first reaction should be what you were getting at. And that would be a very difficult thing to be in.

But I want to share a story. This goes back to the divorce thing and how there's really only a couple of biblical reasons for divorce.

Sexual immorality, an abandonment of the covenant, and that could be defined a few ways.

Physical abuse, that kind of thing. There is a man who I am in a class with.

We're doing some counseling training as the pastors here at Witten. And this man's wife left him 18 years ago.

But never remarried somebody else. So, in his mind and his conscience, they are still married.

Even though she left him 18 years ago and moved to another state. So, he has never remarried because he said,

I made my vows before God. And until she remarries, I have no right to marry another.

Because that would be considered adultery. Yes, yes. Let me tell you something.

That's a man right there. That is an honorable man. Especially with men, with our culture, men are more likely to get remarried after divorce or after being widowed or whatever.

And vice versa. So, that's impressive to me. I've never heard of anybody.

It's very honorable. In today's age. And he shared that with the entire class that he barely knew because he wanted it to be an example for other people.

Which I thought was really cool. So, again. Marriage. If it's a covenant. Between one party, another party, with God as the mediator.

God as the arbiter. God as the making sure that both people keep up their side of the vow.

Their side of the covenant. If that's what it is. And he decided that it's one man, one woman.

Then, who are we to say anything different? And you know, it's funny. I hear people all the time say things like, yeah, but other godly people in the

Bible didn't follow that example. Right, because they were. Because they're still sinners. Because they're still sinners just like me and you.

We still sin. By the way, just a side note. This is a little random ADD thing for you people.

That little glass. It needs a rose in it. No, that little glass ball thing right there. Every time

I see that, this thing. I think of, was it Playstation 1?

Spider -Man game. You could only pan left or right. Maybe it was Nintendo then. Because there was no 3D version of it.

Spider -Man game. You could be Venom or Spider -Man and you had to fight Mysterio. And they made his glass little space ball there.

Like that. Every time I see that, I think of Mysterio. I always think of Beauty and the Beast or The Rose. He's a villain. Spider -Man's a villain.

He was in one of the new movies. He just wasn't a great villain in the new movies. It's like today's movies.

They all suck. No. They're all remakes. That's okay. No, they're not.

When you say today, how far back are we talking? Like 2020.

Like the last couple of years with movies. We need movies. Anyway, let's get back to the marriage topic.

Okay, we'll get back to that. So, okay. Anna, with that being said.

What advice specifically? In fact, let me just read the first Peter passage. And then, Anna, I want you to expound on it.

And give advice to anyone who may be listening right now. Who is married to an unbeliever. This is 1 Peter chapter 3.

And this is about a woman who is married to an unbelieving husband.

Likewise, wives. Now, this is all wives at this part. Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands.

So that even if some of them do not obey the word. They may be won over without a word by the conduct of their wives.

When they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external and braiding of hair.

And putting on gold jewelry or clothing you wear. Let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart. With the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit.

Which is in God's sight very precious. This is how the holy woman who hoped in God.

Used to adorn themselves by submitting to their own husbands. As Sarah obeyed Abram. I'm sorry, Abraham. Calling him

Lord. And you are her children if you do good. And do not fear anything that is frightening.

Likewise, husbands. Live with your wives in an understanding way. Showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel.

Since they are heirs with you of the grace of life. So that your prayers are not hindered.

Just a quick note to the men. I'll let Anna get to the women. Gentlemen, did you catch that? Husbands, live to your wives in an understanding way.

And honor them as the weaker vessels. So that your prayers will not be hindered.

God does not heed or hear the prayers of men.

Who do not honor their wives. I don't know if I've ever noticed that before. Mainly because I've paid attention to what the wives.

I have because it's terrifying. Well, that's your perspective. But it's like it's me for a woman. I've only really paid attention to the female instructions.

So you do a woman married to a man.

And then I'll do a believing man married to an unbelieving woman. Okay, so I actually know a woman within our church.

Who was married to a non -believer. Me too. For like 20 plus years. She did exactly what scripture called her to do.

She prayed for him. She continued to go to church with her and her children. Every single

Sunday. Every single Wednesday. And she was an example to him. And that's what in Peter.

It's telling us to do as women. Is to be an example to your husband. Not to chastise him.

Not to criticize him. Not to be like well you never come to church with us. And you know blah blah blah.

Like no. You need to be an example. Not by your speech. But by your actions. It's not what you say. It's what you do.

And so I think exactly what scripture says. You need to do that. Because especially with our generation.

And with today's culture. Women don't take crap.

It's just like their husbands. The husbands in like any movie that you watch. Any show that you watch.

Anything that you listen to. Whatever. He's an idiot. He's always an idiot. He's an idiot. He's completely stupid.

He's weak. He's just. He's just an idiot. He's the comic relief. That's all he is.

And it's like I wouldn't want to be married to somebody like that. And I'm not married to somebody like that. And it's just like man.

I really hate how they make all of these dads and husbands look. And I will tell you the one show.

The one show out of these last like handful of years. That got it right on this dad.

I want to guess it. Okay. Animated or not? No. Not animated. American or not? American. It's like 20 questions.

But they. They did such a good job with this character. Of making him look like a strong husband and dad.

You better not say Breaking Bad. No. Okay. All right. All right. Okay. No. Okay.

Walt. Loved him at the beginning. Hated him at the end. Come for me in the comments on that one. Yeah. I will.

In a little while. But. Okay. Hold on. I want to guess this. Give me the genre. Drama.

That's such a weak. I think you and your wife have watched this show. I don't know if you finished the show.

But I think you've watched it. Oh. 1883. No. Do you give up?

I'll call a friend. Anybody? None of the nerds know. All right.

Go. This is Us. I never watched that one. You didn't? I think that's the one that every time my wife watched it, she cried.

I'm like, why are you watching this crap? Yeah. Okay. I watched. I saw. Really quick. I saw a meme. And it's just like.

It was this girl. And she was postpartum after having her baby. And she's watching This Is Us. I'm like, that's the worst time to watch

This Is Us. You're flipping right. But anyway. With This Is Us. My husband and I have talked about this. I said, if I wasn't married.

Like, granted, this guy. They're not Christians or anything. But it's like. The way that he is a husband to his wife.

And the way that he is a father to his children. Like, with this day and age on TV. He is just such a good example.

He would fight for his kids. He respects his wife. His wife calls him out in private. And he ended up.

You know. He was an alcoholic. Whatever. And she goes, I don't care what you do. But you're going to be a man. And you're going to fix this.

And he did. And he fixed it. I just. I don't know. I love that. That's like one of my favorite shows.

But. With that being said. Going back. To all of that. A lot of the time.

With these TV shows. They just make these dads look like complete idiots. Without a doubt. And like you said. The comedic. Comedic relief.

And so. With this. With scripture. It shows us. As women. We have to be example.

Just by our actions. And we don't need to criticize. Because that just turns the guy off. To even coming to church.

It's like. Well, you're a hypocrite. Without a doubt. And it gives him a bad taste in their mouth. Before I talk about the man.

Who may be married to an unbelieving wife. A quick side note about that. This is going to offend some of you.

So just get ready. I'm my own man. I can do whatever I want.

Or I am a strong independent woman. There are. I've heard that so many times.

Right. Let's read Jesus's words. One more time. For this reason.

A man. Shall leave his father and mother. Cleave unto his wife. And the two.

Will become. One flesh. Let's count. The two. Will become. Ready Nick. One flesh.

There is. No such thing. As a. Independent married person.

Let me say that again. I need my husband. I don't know about you. Do you need your wife? Yes. Yes. If. Unless you want to disagree with Jesus.

To. One flesh. There is no such thing. As an independent married human being. On planet earth.

Right. Doesn't exist. Your team. Yeah. Act like a team. So quit saying things like. I'm my own man.

I can do whatever I want. Or I'm a strong independent woman. If you are married. Next step. You're not allowed to say either of those.

If you are a Christian. Married or not. Because. The Bible says.

You are all. One. In Christ Jesus. The Bible says. You are in one body. One baptism.

One spirit. Again. The opposite of independent. It's all about being. A part of a team.

That's right. You know. There is no such thing. As an independent Christian. Or independent married person. There is no biblical exception.

That you can try. You're wrong. A man. Who's married to an unbelieving wife. I would say.

What I say earlier. God. Rewards. The obedience.

Of a head of a household. As an example. The rest. I believe. Will follow. There is an example.

Um. That I had the privilege. Of seeing in our church. Of this exact scenario.

Of a man. Married to an unbelieving. Uh. Wife. He came to me.

For counsel. And I told him. You submit. And obey the word.

And see. If your wife. And your children. Will not follow. And it was not. But a couple months later.

She came to him. The Lord. God honors.

The obedience. Guys. Entire nations. Benefited.

And. Were. Faced. Consequences. Based. On the obedience. Of kings.

That still happens. Today. By the way. Federal headship. Well. The federal head.

Of a family. Much smaller level. Is. The father. Is. The husband. Is the man.

Of the house. And the same thing happens. God blesses. Or curses. That unit.

Based on the leadership. Of the federal head. Of the family. That. And. We could go into federal headship.

It's really cool. Adams. The federal head. Of all humanity. Jesus. Is the federal head. Of his church.

I'm just saying. I'm glad. I'm a wife. And not a husband. And my husband. Oh. It's terrifying. And I'm like.

I'm sorry. You have all of that weight. On your shoulders. I'm just glad. It's terrifying. Let me tell you something. It's not hard.

For somebody. Who doesn't care. But for a child. Of God. Who. Wants to obey the word.

It's terrifying. It's an awesome responsibility. But.

There's blessing in it. As well. And. You know. The Bible talks about. In Proverbs 12.

An excellent wife. Is the crown. Of her husband. The crown. Of her husband.

The one that. Is shown off. A symbol. Of his authority. And one who.

Proudly. Stands up. His authority. But also. Is adorned.

Is praised. Okay. That would be my advice.

To a. A man. Marriage. An unbelieving. Woman. Submit yourself. To the word of God. Pray.

And see. If. She does not follow. Soon. Alright. Anything else.

About marriage. Anna. I would just say. Kind of going on. What I referenced.

Earlier. About. You and your spouse. Are on the same team. Yep. And that's one thing.

That. I've talked to my husband. About. We've had. Differing opinions. On certain things. And there was one thing.

With our. Our new baby. And I'm like. Okay. We both have. Certain things. That we want to do.

Certain opinions. Whatever they are. They are both. In the baby's. Best interest.

We are not competing. Each other. Competing against each other. We both want. What's best. We're on the same team.

Right. Where can we compromise. Here. Right. And a lot of the times. It's kind of like. What you're. What you said earlier.

About. You know. Like. I'm the independent woman. Like. I don't need no man. And stuff. It's like. I need my husband. I call him.

All the stuff. I'm like. Hey. Can you do this for me. Hey. I can't fix this. Can you help me. Fix this. I'm like.

Completely useless. But I rely on him. For certain things. Because I trust. That he can do that.

But. I just. I see a lot. Of spouses. Especially within the church. Fighting against each other.

Whether it's through. Budgeting. Like. Finances are a big. Issue. Sure.

Within marriages. And so that's one. Area that I see. That it's really prevalent. But it's like. You know. You guys both.

Want certain things. It's like. Why can't you just. You know. Let's talk about it. Why do you want those things. Why does he want those things.

Okay. Let's come to an agreement. And I feel like a lot of couples. Now. Especially within the church. They don't want to compromise.

Because they want to be. Well. I want to be right. And it's just like. Right. It's just pride talking. Yeah. It's like.

But you just. You guys are on the same team. Let's do it. Together. A wife. Should be the husband's.

Main counselor. Main. Advice giver. And a husband.

Should seek out that advice. Above anyone else's. In decision making.

And the way of thinking. That's how it's supposed to be. Alright. Miss Taylor.

We invite you. To the set. Do we have a mic for her? It's time. Oh. I got a mic for her. Okay. She's over there.

It's time for the game. Yeah. Well. I changed it. In the middle of us talking.

I can't hear you. Well. You got to. You got to turn on the mic there. Taylor. Come on. You can do it. We believe in you.

And she's on our tech team. Well. Talk in it. Yeah. I can't hear.

I can't either. So. They're not going to be able to pick her up. They're not going to be able to hear her. I'll pass her the.

I can pass her the mic. Unless Nick wants to come try to do it. I can just pass her the mic. Alright. Here's what we're going to do.

And I changed this. We have the best tech team ever. Can you believe this? How are we doing now? A round of applause. I can hear you great. Yay.

Yay. Woo. Alright. Um. I changed it halfway through.

Here's what we're going to do. I had a debate at work about a year and a half ago. On this topic.

And I called. This is when I was working at Evergreen. I called probably everyone in this room. But we're going to do it again.

We're going to do it again. Oh. I remember. Because it comes up. I got. Every holiday season. I got the call.

Now listen. I got the call. Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to say the question. And then the natural clarifying question will come up.

Here's the question. You get one the rest of your life. Cake. Or pie.

There is a correct answer. And we'll go over that in a minute. Cake or pie.

Speak. This is difficult. Because I don't like either. Like.

I detest both. And this is why. Hey. Dalton. She's a common denominator. Okay. Okay.

I'm glad we picked her for this. Then pick the least. I would go with pie probably. Out of the two of them.

I would probably go with pie. Why would you go with pie? Um. No one's asked the question. No one's asked the clarifying question yet.

I guess. Because you have like fruit. Like different variables in it. Like fruit. You can have a meat pie. You can have savory pies.

Meat pies. Of course. I can have savory pies for life. Sweeney Dodd. Yes. Thank you. Okay. We watched that recently.

All right. Go, Anna. I'm about to ruin y 'all's world in a minute.

You got to think deeply about this one. Oh. What about cheesecake?

There it is. There is the question. Cheesecake. This is the call. I got the call at work.

All right. Let me explain something. Are you busy? I had this nerd friend I worked with who's related to someone sitting to my right.

And this is what he said. I called him. It was his off day. I didn't care.

This was important. And I called him. Now he's a nerd. And when I say a nerd,

I mean every five seconds of the conversation, he pushes his glasses up when they're not down. That's the level of nerd we're talking about, okay?

And this is what he said. I called him. He said, hello. And I said, bro, cheesecake or pie?

That's all I said. He did this. Tell me where you placed cheesecake, because that is the section

I want to be in. I don't care about your other arguments about brownies and pizza, because I'm sure those were involved, which they are about to be, by the way.

Where is the cheesecake? And you may put my vote there. Click.

Now. Let me explain. The bet was, because the guy from Chattanooga, which shows his intelligence level, the guy from Chattanooga that was there said cake would win overwhelmingly.

Well, there were 40 people working there. And I said pie would win overwhelmingly.

And if I lost, I had to bake a pie for everyone. And if he lost,

I mean a cake, and if he lost, he had to bake pies for everyone. Everyone understand? So, this was important.

By the way, the vote ended up being, I'm not kidding, 21 to 19. It was close.

Okay. Now, Taylor answered too quickly, because we got to deal with the cheesecake thing.

Can I say one thing about cheesecake? Yeah. The said person that's related to me that loves cheesecake, for Thanksgiving, he special ordered two cheesecakes shipped in from New York.

That doesn't surprise me. Did he order subs for your dad from New York or something last year?

Yes. He doesn't surprise me. Let's go ahead, and I'm going to argue that cheesecake is in the pie section. And before all of you people, before all of you people, all of you ignorant souls, is that too harsh to say on the podcast?

Ignorant. It's true. Truth is truth. Souls, in the comments saying, the name cake is in it. Okay, let me just go ahead and dispel that.

Grape nuts are not grape or nuts. The Affordable Care Act doesn't mean they care. The Patriot Act wasn't patriotic, just because it's in the name does not mean that it is that thing.

Koala bears are not bears. I can go on. I have so many of these built up for arguments. Just because it's in the name doesn't mean it's that thing.

I agree. Cheesecake is clearly a pie based on the crust and filling combo.

Non -layered, non -spongy, non -caked. I agree.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was going to go on the pie side of things. Dalton, cheesecake is a cake or a pie? Pie.

Lowell? Cake. Thank you. Cake. Pie, thank you.

All right. Now, with that being said, now that cheesecake is in the pie category, what does cake have left?

I am even willing to give them brownies. I know that's a tough one. I know it's a tough one to lose.

I know it's a tough one to lose. I'll give them brownies because sometimes they make those brownies that are kind of fluffy.

I'll give them brownies. They can't have cookies. That's separate. We can't get ice cream.

That's separate. With that being said, I think now there's really no way cake could ever win.

Because I'm thinking I like more pies. I look forward to pecan pie. Oh, and then if you put hot pie and then cold ice cream on top.

Don't let me go ahead and point out that cobblers are obviously in the pie category. I was going to ask you about that.

Don't even let me get there. That was one of my variations. And if you give me pizza, it's over. But I'll leave out the pizza for now because we're talking purely dessert.

Even though CeCe's used to have those dessert pizzas in the middle. Do you remember those? I miss those. Those were so good. They were never good.

I love those. Wow, that's the most incorrect thing you said today. But we're going to keep on scooting in there. CeCe's is not good. So, pie or cake?

Go. Oh, pie. Pie. Dalton, pie or cake? Pie. Pie. Lowell?

Based on these terms, pie. Based on these terms, pie. Okay. Everyone says pie. If we were going to make a good argument for cake, what would it be?

Carrot cake. That's my favorite. And chocolate. By the way, can we take care of a misnomer here?

I saw something really stupid on Facebook the other day. It had a pan where all the brownies were corner pieces, which are obviously the worst pieces.

Yes, the middle. The center. I'm sorry. Lowell, do you have an opinion? All right.

This is called point taken. Your point is not taken. The corners. The corners aren't.

No, the middle with a glass of whole milk. And the chocolate chips inside the brownies.

Do you get the Ghirardelli ones from Costco? Oh, the Ghirardelli. Yes. They're really good. That we ended up making.

I do like German chocolate cake. Last one. Last one. Let's go ahead and dispense.

Here's what we're going to do. Get rid of a couple Thanksgiving foods forever.

Forget tradition. Let's get rid of them forever and never let them enter into the

Thanksgiving feast again. Me first. Me first. Green bean casserole. Thank you so much for saying that.

You're welcome. I agree with that. It's never been good. I've tried it every time. We're doing great so far, guys.

Go ahead. I feel like a lot of people are going to disagree with me on this one. Just let her. I do not like turkey at Thanksgiving.

Why? I've had it. So many people do not cook it correctly. Why? No. What about fried turkey?

Have you ever had a deep fried turkey? I'll be honest. I've never had a deep fried turkey, but I've never had turkey that's always dry.

No. No. Were you here Thursday at the church? Okay.

My brother made a deep fried turkey this year and last year, and it was the juiciest, most flavorful turkey ever.

I'm not a turkey fan. I love his turkey. I look forward to that. Otherwise, I do. I'm a ham person. Yeah. Every year.

Even when my father could make a turkey, I'm like, I'm not a turkey fan. Your dad does turkey, and you don't like it? Yeah. I always go for ham.

Dude, if he can't cook it. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, oh, that's pretty bad. Tim must make a dry turkey. I don't know.

Now, just hear me out for a minute. The most overrated Thanksgiving thing is, without a doubt, dressing.

And if you call it stuffing, you're just calling it a different word. It tastes the same. Yeah. It's like nostalgia.

My mom makes dressing. I love dressing. How do you love dressing? Cornbread dressing. And you don't like turkey? Cornbread dressing.

But my dad does Italian sausage in the dressing instead of turkey. Your dad gets really extra with all of his stuff.

Everyone's good with keeping the cranberry stuff? No. I don't like cranberry sauce. Why? Cranberry sauce is nasty.

Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. No. I love the cranberry stuff. I never eat cranberry sauce.

No. You? You? I don't like cranberry sauce. I'm alone. I'm alone.

I don't like how. What did you just say? What did you just say? No, no, no. You heard me. You laughed at my joke, banker.

No, I did not. Yes, you did. I said hmm, hmm, hmm. You laughed at my joke. Okay. What I don't like about cranberry, do you like the ones in the can?

And like you slice it? I like all of them. Or do you like the crushed? I like all of them. See, the can. The homemade one is worse.

The can bothers me. And I was asking my mom, because she turned the can upside down. Guys. And I said, why are you doing it from the bottom?

And she's like, oh, because if you flip it on top, it's like. Guys, listen. I just can't do it. Listen. It's pointless.

My sister and my mom would argue. Do you like cranberry juice? No. I don't drink cranberry juice. I don't drink juice.

Yes, but I like the only cran mango. You don't drink. Oh, stop. Yeah. You don't drink juice?

No. Like if you come to our house. If you come to our house, we have milk, tea, and water. No, no, stop. I love juice.

When you say you don't drink juice. Like orange juice. Apple juice. Orange juice. Cranberry juice.

Grape juice. I hate grape juice. Do you take communion? I do. And I take it like a shot. Oh, my gosh. We have a member of this church who's not.

What do you do? Do you just pour it out on the carpet? Like, what do you do here? I take it back. I'm like. Take a drink and pour it out.

Is that what you do? I take it. And I have tried to get my husband to drink it before. I'm like, can you please drink it for me? I hate grape juice. He's like, no, you're going to drink it.

He said no. First Corinthians 11. And so I'm just like. So I just take it like a shot.

I'm going to pay attention next time at communion. Absolutely. We're taking communion in three weeks.

You're doing it at my table. 100%. I will come to your table. And I'm going to make a point about how it says each of you. Oh, my goodness gracious.

You're going to take your communion? You don't like juice. I won't like it. This is the craziest thing I've heard today. It's not that I don't like certain juices.

That's exactly what she just said. I don't drink them. Like, I just don't buy them to drink at our house.

All right. Now, look. Grapefruit. That's a lot. That's tough. Like, if I drink some juice.

Like, orange juice. That's like really the only. If I were to get it, like, from a restaurant. Okay. So, I'm the only one that likes the cranberry sauce.

No cranberry sauce for me. Sorry. Okay. You're on that one. It's gone forever. All right. The best

Thanksgiving food is the same as every day of the year, and it's steak. Steak is the best food.

I've never had steak at Thanksgiving. So, if you have it on Thanksgiving, it's still the best food. Until I started dating Jeff, I did not know steak could be had, like, on Thanksgiving.

I'd never heard that before. I'm missing out. I'd never heard about that before. I want steak at my next

Thanksgiving. It was fantastic. What are some others, though? Steak is the best food, by the way. But what are some others that you don't?

Could be gone, banished forever. You got green bean casserole. That's gone. I don't need dressing ever again. I like it, because my mom makes it.

Okay. What about deviled eggs? That just sounds like. Absolutely not. Listen. Let me talk to you about this. My wife apparently makes good deviled eggs.

I don't think that's possible. Do you not like deviled eggs? No. Because mayonnaise. Why do I want my eggs cold? Well, because you don't like mayonnaise.

No. No. No. It's not about that. Oh, it's not about that. Why do I want my eggs cold? Hey, let's cook this.

We'll make it hot. It looks good. Let's let it cool off and put it in the fridge with mustard. Like, what is this?

Like, I don't want to eat this cold. And then you can't warm it back up. I never liked deviled eggs growing up until like a couple of years ago.

And I'm like, dang, these are actually pretty good. I also don't understand the name. I only eat my mom's. But anyway. I've never liked deviled eggs.

The smell of them. Rachel loves those things. Eggs just smell so disgusting. Well, they smell like farts.

Yeah. That's why I nicknamed my son Egg. Thanks for that. You're welcome. That's why you nicknamed him. I did. See, I love eggs.

I call him Egg when he says really. I love making omelets. I love fried eggs. I like them runny if I have toast.

Toast. Or biscuits. Salt and pepper. You like your whites crusty. I love having a runny egg on top of my ramen.

Like a soft boiled egg. Well, I don't eat ramen unless I have a cup noodle thing.

Nah, man. You're missing out. You're missing out. We need to go. Okay, but what's one more. Why would you? No. I want to hear this out.

What? I ate those when I didn't have a lot of money. And I was trying to just get some food in me.

And I bought those cups. The broth. Just drink it like coffee.

But why would I do that now? There's better versions of ramen. If you go to a legitimate restaurant.

There's one in Midtown. It's so good. I'm trying to think of another. Pumpkin pie for me. That could go.

Oh. I can go away. Okay. Let's calm down a little bit, y 'all. Let's calm down.

Let's make this clear. Absolutely. Pumpkin pie is. Trash. It's okay.

It's okay. But why have it if it's okay? It's only if there's another option. Don't misunderstand me.

I will just go without dessert if it's just pumpkin pie. I would still choose pumpkin pie over most cakes.

Okay. What about pecan pie? Pecan pie is good. Chocolate pecan pie is also pretty good.

The one that Shar makes. But, guys, that doesn't compare to, like, cherry pie. Key lime pie.

Who just. I'm sorry. Come take the thing. I'm sorry. I didn't say lemon meringue.

I said key lime. No. Key lime I like. It's cherry. Oh, cherry? Yeah. I hate candy like cherries.

I like maraschino cherries. I love maraschino cherries. Are those the Sonic ones? Yes. I love maraschino cherries.

The maraschino cherries are fine. I love maraschino cherries. The maraschino ones are disgusting. I love those. Okay. But those are not what's in cherry pie.

Pretty close. Oh, if you get, like, the jar thing. Yeah. If you get the jar thing. Who cares? It's good.

Do you pronounce it syrup or syrup? Let me think. Now you got me. All right.

I think it's a. You pronounce it. Here's how you pronounce it. Honey. That's how you pronounce it. That's what you put on waffles.

And pancakes. If I'm talking to my dad. It's maple syrup. If I'm talking to Miss Sandra. Syrup. Syrup. Hey, y 'all.

Listen. We started a Spanish class here at Whitman. And I would give almost anything to have

Miss Sandra come. Oh, my God. Now, let me explain to you viewers who Miss Sandra is. Hello, y 'all. Como te llamo.

Let me explain. For those of you who don't know. Let me teach y 'all something about American geography. Anyone who's from a town of less than 50 ,000 people will pronounce.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup.

Syrup. Syrup. Syrup. And mix in the dashing. Circle.

Eat s 예̅. And then you're done. And now you know how to say circle. Circle, circle, circle, circle.

Just said that to be clear. sure this is clear. Just be clear. Pie over cake.

Everyone's in agreement? Pie over cake, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, then we're good. There was only one counter -argument

I wanted to add to it. One of the cake guys tried to argue that donuts are on their side. Cake donut?

If they are, that makes this a little more difficult. Okay? So let's think for a minute. Are donuts on their side?

I would agree, yeah. Okay, that makes this more difficult, guys. No, because they have yeast in it.

Is that the qualification? Are you kidding me? I don't think so, because cakes don't have yeast in it. So now rolls are on their side too?

Dinner rolls? That's a different category. Okay. I'm saying they're not even in the category.

Tech guys, this is the last thing, and we can cut the cameras off after this one. If donuts go to the cake side, does it change your vote?

No? Yes. But would not jelly -filled be in the pie category?

Because there's fruit in it? No. But jelly ones are good. We can save this one for next week.

Alright. Alright, guys. Well, with that being said...

You said what? Oh, Nick wants me to say...

Don't edit that. Nick wants me to say, like, comment, subscribe. If you don't share this video, then you're a cake lover, not a pie lover.

I mean, it's just that simple. Share the video. Do it now. It's a little arrow, and it's going this way.

Press it, and then hit public. Is that how you do it? Like, comment, subscribe, do all that stuff.

Guys, give us more topics. Put it in the comment section. You can email us at listenpointtakingpodcast...

At gmail .com? At gmail .com. So close. Yeah, there's that.

So as Hunter always says, and... Deuces. Deuces. Hunter's going to be so disappointed.

He's like, so many bloopers! Thanks for watching! Don't forget to like and subscribe!

See you next time!