Mormonism Is Not True

Apologia Utah

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

We're evangelical Christians. We come out here getting conversations with our LDS neighbors. Have you ever spoken with an evangelical

00:07

Christian before about Jesus or anything like that? Honestly, no, I haven't. Did you go on a mission? I did.

00:12

Where'd you go? Thailand. Whoa, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, tell me what that was like.

00:18

It was amazing. It was just teaching about Christ and loving the people and serving them. So where in Thailand did you go?

00:27

All over. I was in Bangkok. That's my son. Do you want to trade?

00:34

That works, right? He's a hard sell. Did you get to ride an elephant or anything?

00:40

Yeah, it was a great time. That's cool. So you spoke mainly to, what would it be like, Hindus are out there?

00:46

Mostly Buddhists. Buddhists. Yeah, what was that like? I'm kind of curious.

00:52

Honestly, it was amazing because most of it never prayed or talked to God before. It was really special just to be with them the very first time they'd ever talked to God and teach them who he is and how to communicate with him.

01:04

It's changed a lot of their lives. Wow, when did you get back on your mission? Or from your mission? I've been home four years.

01:10

For four years? Oh, okay. Yeah, just so you're studying school, going to get your math degree. What do you want to do with your math degree?

01:15

I love machine learning and AI. I would love to go in. I'm a math nut, so I go in and I think about advanced machine learning models and how to apply them to solve different things.

01:29

Too bad that's not a growing industry. Too bad, I know, right? It's unfortunate. Do you ever use Midjourney or ChatGPT or anything like that?

01:36

Yeah, all the time. That's cool, man. Hopefully we'll be making those, not just using them. That's the plan.

01:41

Wait, what do you mean you'll be making them? Someone had to make ChatGPT, right? That's what I'm studying to learn how to do.

01:47

How to make models, like self -driving cars, self -driving drones, just different types of AI applications.

01:54

Dang, so when I use ChatGPT, when I think about it, I'll ask it a question and it goes and sources the internet for things.

02:00

I don't have the paid -for version, so I think I'll only get up to 2020 or 2019 or something like that for info. But it'll take information in order to answer my question, so if I were to ask you a question about Jesus, where do you think some of that source information would come from for you?

02:14

Most of it comes from my personal experiences with God. Oh, personal experiences with God. So is there anything that you may differ that you believe that may be different than the mainstream

02:23

LDS organization? I'd say, basically, all lies, 100%.

02:29

So if you were to come down to it, it'd kind of be like the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, stuff like that is kind of where your source code comes from?

02:38

It comes from the Holy Ghost. Those are just conduits to the Holy Ghost. Okay. So that's where...

02:44

Gotcha. So what if the Bible, as like a source code, differed from what the

02:50

Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants might say about Jesus? Have you ever looked into any of that? Sorry, can you rephrase that question?

02:57

Yeah, so if we're thinking about Jesus and his deity, what if the Bible actually says something different than, let's say,

03:04

Mormon doctrine? Yeah. How would you reconcile that?

03:10

I mean, I'd say even, I don't know, in all scripture, right, you gotta take scripture based off its original context for what it's worth, right?

03:19

Absolutely. So even like within different verses of the Bible, I could say there's things that aren't 100 % analogous, even within the

03:27

Book of Mormon. Nothing's perfect, it's written by men, right? So I'd say, that's why I said the real learning that I learned comes from the

03:33

Holy Ghost. Gotcha. So it's just like a conduit in order to learn that. Gotcha. So in the

03:40

Bible it says that scripture comes from the Holy Spirit, essentially, that men of God were carried along by the

03:48

Holy Ghost as they wrote scripture, that no prophecy is ever the interpretation of man, but the

03:53

Holy Ghost. So would the Holy Ghost contradict himself, right? So I would believe that in the

03:59

Bible with John 1, for example, it says about Jesus that in the beginning was the

04:04

Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. It says all things were created through Him, there's nothing that came into being unless it was created through Jesus, right?

04:13

So if I take that, just John 1, the first verse of the Apostle John who walked with Jesus, lived with Jesus, saw

04:20

Jesus die on the cross, the one who calls himself the Beloved, wants to make it so known, right?

04:26

Arguably it could have been one of the last Gospels that was written. He wants the reader to really understand that the deity of Jesus is this, that He has always existed from everlasting and neverlasting, and He created all things.

04:38

Like an original context, thinking about that. But then the LDS organization says something where it's like, you've imagined and supposed that God has been

04:46

God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see you have got to learn to become

04:52

God. It's Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse. How do you reconcile those things with what the

04:57

Bible through previous revelation shows who Jesus is with what the LDS organization teaches?

05:03

So that's a good question. It's important, right? Yeah, I probably have to get going after this. I have an assignment due at 12.

05:09

Oh, okay. I appreciate you talking, though. Yeah, I'm happy to. I was on my mission and I know it's hard work trying to preach what you believe is so true and so important to your heart.

05:18

Yeah, and you're out there in Thailand, man. That's crazy. Yeah, it was a lot of work. Just, I guess, to answer your question,

05:24

I'd say, because I've actually had a lot of time where I've had doubts before, too.

05:33

Yeah. Just in even God, whether or not God exists. Yeah. And the thing that I've always come back to is there are pieces of information that I think

05:42

I know, right? Like I have expectations. But the more that I let time play out, any apparent contradiction usually gets ironed over.

05:51

And what I've found is as I follow what the Holy Ghost has taught me, the more

05:57

I focus on just believing in Christ, right? Those things that seem to not make sense, that seem to contradict, they fix themselves, mostly, for me.

06:06

So I don't know about that one specifically. I'd say look into it, man. Even look into the original

06:11

Greek for John 1 .1. Yeah. Actually, I love doing that. I go to Bible Hub all the time whenever I read.

06:17

You go to Bible Hub? Yeah, uh -huh, yeah. Dude, nice. Yeah, I love it. Like I said, context is important, right?

06:22

Absolutely. Dude, look into that, man. Yeah, I'd love to. Hunter's actually a Greek expert. No, I'm not. I'm learning

06:28

Greek right now, and I'm absolutely horrible at it. Yeah. But you're funny, bro. You can say I'm a Greek expert, too, because of all the math, right?

06:34

Oh, there we go. Dude, I've actually been learning that. There's morphology with words that are mathematical in Greek, and I'm like, great.

06:40

I'm already bad at Greek, and I'm horrible at math. Let's add math to my Greek. Great. But let me leave you with this, alright?

06:47

Yeah. So Jesus, when He asks His disciples, He says to them, Who do you say that I am? Right? And that's important, because He says that unless you believe that I am,

06:57

He says you will die in your sins. And when Jesus is giving the phrase the I am, we could go all the way back to the burning bush statements of I am that I am, but really

07:05

He's referencing Isaiah there, in specific Isaiah texts. But if we don't believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal

07:13

God, uncreated, who created all things in heaven and on earth, who took on flesh, and died on the cross for our sins, then we actually don't have a sacrifice for our sins, and then we look to make up some of that work that He did on our own.

07:27

So the gospel call, Samuel, is that you're not perfect, I'm not perfect. You've probably told lies before, right?

07:33

Yeah, 100%. Amen. So the Bible says those who sin at one point of the law are guilty of all of it.

07:40

It says that in the book of James. But Jesus, who is God, came in the flesh, was perfectly obedient to the law, fulfilled all of it, and became that sacrifice on the cross for my sins.

07:50

So solely through my belief in Him as the eternal God, He absorbed the wrath of the

07:56

Father on my behalf. So that when I die, just through my faith alone in Jesus Christ, when

08:02

I stand before the Father, I'm justified, which is a forensic term that means declared righteous. I'm justified solely through the work of Christ.

08:09

And I will be with God forever because of the work of Jesus. And that's the call of the gospel and the hope, right?

08:15

That you can't do anything on yourself, Samuel, in order to make yourself holy before God.

08:21

It's not about your baptism. It's not about temple endowments. It's not about any of those things. Because once you add on to the gospel, it says in Galatians 2 .21,

08:29

that the grace of God has no effect on you. So that's my worry for the LDS individual, and that's my call for you is look into John 1.

08:36

Look at some of the Greek. Go into that context. The Holy Ghost would never contradict himself. And it's very plain in the scriptures who

08:43

Jesus is in his deity. He's not the brother of Lucifer. He's not an offspring of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

08:50

He's the eternal God who died so that you could live through your faith in him, Samuel. That's what I'm here to tell you.

08:56

Well, I really appreciate your message, and I really appreciate you doing that. I see a lot of good, a lot of hope in it, and I respect you guys for being here.