The Importance of Christian Parenting & Homeschooling

Welcome to Apologetics Live and Tonight’s Guests

Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

Hello, good evening, everyone. Thank you for being on tonight. So you will notice right now, it's a...

If there's only one host, you don't know why that is, man. I know I'm going to hear this from him now. ...Eternity Ministries.

As he... As you all know that Andrew knows, I never get electronics right. No matter what I do, I never get them right. And sure enough, I did it again tonight. So having said all that, it's great to have you all here.

You notice that I'm here by myself tonight. Pastor Andrew is actually driving to Ohio right now. He's coming to visit yours truly. So he and his wife are actually coming into town as of Sunday. He'll be preaching at a church about an hour away from here, Joe Conkle's church.

And then he's coming back up to our house and going to spend the week here. So I'm looking forward to that fellowship. Pastor Justin Pierce is in a class tonight as he is in most Thursdays coming up for the fall.

And Pastor Zion Nichols is busy tonight. He's not going to be here, but we do have a couple other guests hosts. And the first one I have to show you is Chicken Man is back. So I know some of you don't know Chicken Man, but John, we just absolutely love your chickens.

I would love more if you would box one up for me and ship it here and put it in my freezer.

But how's it going? Good, man. Good. Yeah, I'm on vacation for this week. And yeah, I'm celebrating my 17th anniversary with my wife. Happy anniversary. Thanks. Good for you. Yep. That is so wonderful.

And what is your anniversary? Exactly. It was actually the third. It was the third. Okay. Well, happy anniversary. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. So we had a good time. And so I just thought I'd since I'm gone vacation here, I thought I'd figure show up and show off the.

Chickens for a little bit. Oh, that is great. Well, if you want to hang out tonight, you know, I have no guest host tonight. So no co host tonight. So feel free to feel free to hang around.

And be like old times again. Okay, I'll probably swap over to my PC when I when I'm done out here.

So okay. Yeah, sounds good. Well, thanks for showing the chickens. I've been waiting for that for a while. So yeah, great. So I guess I'll put you back in the background. Let's just switch over and get a chance.

Okay. No. Cole, how are you doing tonight? I'm well this evening. How are you? I'm good. Good to see you. So Andrew's gonna be down at your church, you'll get a chance. I don't think you've met him yet.

Right? Not personally. No. So you get a chance to meet him in person preaching down at your church. So I'm excited for that. Sadly, I will not be able to be down there. I'll be preaching in a different church this Sunday.

So so I won't be coming out and seeing you guys. But I think I'm back at your church, October 9. Right on. So Joe decided to sign me the passage of head coverings in First Corinthians 11. So I'm like, really, Joe, give that one to me.

So that'll be fun. I've been I've been studying those. It really is a good passage when you when you study it out properly. And it's not about head coverings.

I liked I liked Mike Mike Winger's take on it. It was pretty good. He like I like what he way he breaks all that stuff down and brings in like four different translations and all the different perspectives.

It's like, but here's really what it is. You've never listened. What does it come down to? Biblical authority? Oh, yeah. He's very he's very much regulative on it. It's just one of those things you can't really you really have to twist the pages to make it say anything.

Other than what it is. Yeah, no, I agree in the context when you when you read it carefully. And yeah, absolutely. It's that's true. So so I'm looking forward to preaching that here in a month down at your church.

So before we get to our special guest tonight, I forget to do this every week. And so I'm going to do it now. I got a package in the mail. Do you have any idea call what you think this package could be that I would be opening on air right now?

If if I know what the.

Smell of grifting is? And I think I do. It's a it's a my pillow. It is my pillow. That's right.

So my pillow. Thank you to our sponsor. I did purchase this, but but in purchasing this, I use the SFE code, which gives you the best deal you can find. So we were very thankful to my pillow and Mike Lindell for being a sponsor of this show.

And so I'm really excited. I wanted to buy one as a as a travel pill. Last time we traveled, I got severe allergies from the pillow that was that was there. So my wife's like, you know what, you really need to just get another pillow and start traveling that.

So here it is, my new pillow. Nice. And then Andrew has convinced me that's to get the bath towels. These right now, these are on clearance, like 70 percent off. So they're really cheap. He's he says they're the softest.

And he's right. They are really, really nice, really nice bath towels. But they stay. Do they stay that nice soft? So they're supposed to. And they're supposed to be super absorbent, you know, because, you know, I'm a little crazy about being, you know, eating clean, all that kind of stuff, most because my wife's cancer, right, that we were able to treat naturopathically a few years ago.

But, you know, when you buy new towels and the reason why they're soft is because of the heavy chemicals that are really poisonous to us. And when those chemicals wear off and and the towel now is more so the towel gets rougher, but it's actually much more absorbent.

And all the chemicals kind of gone away. But that's when people get rid of them. That's when I like my towels. Yeah, a little rougher, but they're they absorb and they don't have all the chemicals on them.

So which towels are those? What's that? Which towels? These are my pillow towels. They're just straight my pillow towels, straight my pillow towels. Yeah, they have bath. They have bath sets as well as just the shower towels.

And that's the one I wanted. So hi, I'm glad I'm glad I've got another guest tonight. Well, thank you for being on cold to be a co-host tonight. Last moment. So without further ado, I am I'm really, really excited about the guest that we have on right now.

And and so I've watched this guest for, oh, I don't know, three, four years on on Facebook posts for whatever reason. We cross paths on there, probably because we have a lot of mutual friends, especially in the homeschooling community.

And so I've I've really enjoyed reading a lot of his posts. Well thought out. And somebody who has been around the block a little bit, he's not he's not quick to respond. And and I know he's been pigeonholed as the homeschool guy.

But but in reality, I believe he's a really good apologist as well. And and somebody who who I really wanted to get on the show at some point. And after we had a chance to meet, I was speaking out in Idaho back in March for a week.

And while I was while I was speaking and preaching there in churches, there was a conference that I was doing the pre pre conference and the post conference talks at. And Israel and John Harris were the two main conference speakers.

I got had a chance to meet them both, actually, that day. Really enjoyed talking with Israel that day. And and then about a month, month and a half later, we met again. My wife and I were in Florida for a conference.

And at a church, we do a lot of work with Pastor Casey Butner from Beulah Baptist, who a lot of you know on here because he's been a guest several times. And he and Justin Peters did the expose videos against First Baptist Orlando with as they were homosexuals are in ministry and they're baptizing homosexuals and different things.

But so Casey, so I was down we were down at Casey's church and my wife and as we were walking around the hotel that we were at, we saw all these Christian vans and whatnots were like, hey, there I think there's a conference over there at that at that resort.

And sure enough, we walk in, we talk to people at the booth. They're like, oh, yeah, just go and take a look. And who do we see? Israel. So we got a chance to talk to a little bit more and I just had a great time.

So without further ado, we're going to bring him in right now. Brother Israel, how are you doing tonight? Hey, Anthony, I'm doing great. Good. Well, it's great to have you on and a co-host, Cole. And we're going to bring one more in right now, John, who you saw him backstage.

John used to run the After Show. We did Apologetics Live back, but back when Matt Slick was on it with us. Right. And then you were doing the After Show called The Council. And so now we just call it Anthony Time.

Yep. And.

Now we just call it Anthony Time. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's evolved. It's evolved. Yeah,.

Right. Over 6 ,000 years. So, OK. So, Israel, I'm really excited to have you on. And, you know, from background, from my perspective, before we just kind of let you run is that when I first got saved 14 years ago, our son is 15.

And my wife had told me since the very beginning, hey, I want to homeschool him. I'm like, eh, we don't need to homeschool. I mean, I turned out fine. I went to public school. Of course, did I really turn out fine?

Not for many years. Not until I got saved. But she had to convince me to do homeschooling. And once we had done it, I completely bought in. And of course, after God saved me and brought me into teaching and apologetics pretty early on in my walk, because I've been doing this now for 10 years or so, nationally speaking, I've been more and more convinced that homeschooling is the only way.

And public schools are an atrocity. A lot of Christian schools, sadly, are an atrocity. I think there's some good ones out there. But I'm fully convinced of homeschooling. And I think people need to do whatever they possibly can to homeschool.

So having said all that, Israel, I'm going to let you kind of take it away. So can you give us a little bit about your background? Yeah, well, my childhood is fairly complicated and very unique in a couple of different ways.

One thing that made it unique was that in 1978, my mother took my older sister, who was in public school, out of school, because she was having a bad experience there. My sister had been homeschooled in preschool by my mother.

In fact, I'll just throw this out there. A lot of people think, oh, I could never homeschool. But in reality, everyone homeschools their children until they get to the magic age of compulsory attendance age.

And then all of a sudden, they feel like they're not qualified anymore, and they send them off to the experts. But I often encourage people, you've already been homeschooling the first five or six years of their life.

Just don't stop homeschooling them. Just continue what you're doing. It's really not any more intimidating than what you did the first five or six years. You just continue that trajectory, slowly adding some academics as you go.

But my sister had been homeschooled by my mother. And when she went into public kindergarten, she was testing as having been reading at a fifth grade level. She was a pretty exceptional gifted student.

And so my mother put her into public school, and she came home every day, talked about how much she hated it, complained that her stomach hurt all the time, just really lost a love for life, and just would cry with the thought of even having to go to school.

And my mother didn't like that, but she didn't know what to do about it. And through a long series of events, my mother became convinced that the school was not helping her. In fact, one of the teachers told my mother that my sister had a learning disability and couldn't learn, which my mother knew was simply not true.

And so she took her out of school, not knowing at that time that there was something called compulsory attendance laws. And that meant that you had to send your child to government school, and you didn't have an option.

You didn't have a second choice. So ended up that we were in court over it, and we were homeschooled from 1978 through, well, my younger sisters, really probably up into about the early 2000s. And so it was a long journey for our family.

My parents, unfortunately, divorced when I was six years old, and my parents split up. My mother was not a Christian until I was 12 years old. And so initially she wasn't homeschooling us for religious reasons.

But when she became a Christian when I was 12, that changed pretty dramatically. And the next year, actually, she had remarried, married a guy who was not a Christian, who was very abusive. And I had an abusive stepfather from the age of about six to 15, which really complicated matters.

But at 15 years old, he found somebody else. He moved on with his life. And so my mom at that time then was a single mom with six children, whom she was homeschooling. And my older sister and I had graduated.

And so she started a publishing business in 1988 when I was 13 years old. And one of the first projects that she published was a national homeschooling magazine. And that magazine eventually became the nation's longest running Christian homeschool publication.

And God used it to really grow the homeschooling movement. So she became one of the pioneer, not just families that started homeschooling, but was in the leadership level as well in terms of helping to launch the careers of a lot of the speakers and writers, the late 80s, 90s, 2000s, and so on.

And so I grew up in Christian publishing and homeschool publishing. And my mom was a conference speaker, spoke at a lot of homeschool conventions. And I was her roadie. I would go out on the road and run the book table and take orders and all that.

And then I graduated from homeschooling in 1991 and started working in her publishing business January of 93 as marketing director. I worked there for 20 years in that. And by the time I was 19 years old, I was being asked to speak at homeschool conferences to give my perspective as somebody who had been home educated, because there really weren't many homeschool graduates in the mid 1990s.

And people had me do teen tracks or to be on discussion panels or to give a testimony presentation on I was homeschooled and lived to tell about it, that kind of thing. But as time went on, people began to comment and say, Israel is not just a good teen speaker, he's a good speaker.

And so literally by 19 years old, I was keynoting homeschool conferences and have been doing that ever since. And so I worked with my mother's publishing company until July of 2013, where I left to start a ministry with my wife and my older sister, Sony, the one I was telling you about, who started the whole homeschool journey.

And I just wanted to be able to spend more time writing books and traveling full time, speaking at conferences. And so the last nine years, that's what I've been doing through Family Renewal, which is our organization.

And, you know, the last couple years, of course, you know, this events have been quite different with everything being shut down and all that. But prior to that, I was doing somewhere between usually about 50 to 70 events a year.

And, you know, speaking on a number of topics, you know, speaking at family camps and churches and conferences on everything from Christian apologetics to theology, to family, to marriage, to parenting, homeschooling, and, you know, lots of different topics, biblical creationism, social issues, and talking about postmodernism and social justice, and, you know, just whatever, whatever kind of the hot button issues are biblical economics, lots of different types of topics.

So I've written, I think the last nine years, I've written six different books and have a new Bible doctrine and theology curriculum that's going to be coming out from Masterbooks, Lord willing, later on this year.

It's in production right now. And so I have a lot of different projects, but that's, there's a lot of gaps in what I told you, but that's kind of a skeleton outline, I guess. I was going to say, because I got a lot more detail in your books, and I just, I have to commend some of your books.

So I have all six of them here. And as we talked about, I went through two of them in great detail, because that's kind of the ones I want to focus on for the show tonight. Although, as I told you, everything's open game and anybody who has any questions, please put them in the chats or come on live and be able to ask those questions.

So Raising Them Up is a book that I wish I had when Anthony was small. And I would commend this book to anybody who's got young children, because I cannot believe, I mean, one, how biblical, I mean, okay, it's very biblical.

I would hope that it's very biblical, but how practical it is too. And I'm like, as you go through this book, I'm like, yep, I went through that situation. Yep, went through that one. And I wish I didn't have to figure it all out myself.

To have one easy book would have been wonderful. And so, okay, so let me ask you this, Israel. Your mom was one of the people who really was a pioneer, as you said. What are some of the pitfalls she had over the years?

Because I was telling you this before the show started. I was naive. When we started homeschooling our son, I just thought homeschooling's always been around. It's always been around in that, yeah, the government has slowly gained more control over the years, but that homeschooling is still there, and we still have to fight for our rights.

I was shocked in reading your book to find out that it was literally illegal everywhere up until 40-ish to 50 years ago. And so, can you tell us a little bit about that and some of the battles that your mom had faced early on?

The Origins of Compulsory Schooling and the Rise of Government Control

Yeah, well, to give a bit of quick history on how we got to that situation, if you go back to colonial days, the time of the pilgrims, of course, in colonial America, and then all the way through the revolution and up to about the time of the Civil War, basically, the two types of schooling they had were homeschooling and then what we would probably call today homeschool co-ops, or these little cottage schools that were parent-controlled, parent-directed, parent-funded.

Those are really the types of schools that we had until about the time of the Civil War. And in 1852, there was a guy named Horace Mann who was a Unitarian in Massachusetts who hated God, and he wanted to see Christianity eradicated from America.

So, he decided that what we needed was a system of government-run, government-funded, government-controlled schools, and he wanted those schools to have a complete monopoly on education to where you didn't have the opportunity to opt out.

So, he was able to pass the first compulsory attendance school laws in 1852 in Massachusetts, and then other states adopted them. So, by 1900, pretty much every state had embraced compulsory attendance schools, and the government essentially had a monopoly on education for a number of years where you had to go to government-controlled, government-run schools, and you didn't have an option to do other than that.

Let me stop you right there. If I can stop you right there, Israel. Okay. Obviously, today, we know why the government wants kids to be in school, right? We know now. We've known with the NEA. I've got books that go back to the 1970s here that talk about the Marxism in the schools and how Marxism was in the schools, at least that they can trace back to the 1940s.

I'm sure it went before that even. So, I know that it was always about government control, but is that really what was going on in the 1850s as well, this Unitarian? Was it the same reasons as it is today why the government wants to control the children, or do we even know?

Unitarianism, Original Sin, and the Philosophy Behind Public Schools

Yeah. So, Horace Mann loved the Prussian schools. So, the Prussians or the Germans really started compulsory attendance in Germany. Friedrich Frobel was a guy who started the government kindergarten program there, and it grew out of a distrust of parents.

It grew out of a belief that parents were dangerous for their own children and that the state needed to raise children and that the goal of the kindergarten, according to Friedrich Frobel, was we need to get children away from their parents as early as possible before they're corrupted by their parents.

And so, Horace Mann studied these Prussian schools and felt that they were the model that he wanted to see implemented into America. And what you have to understand about Horace Mann growing up in Massachusetts, he was raised in a very stern and strict Puritan home, and his father died when he was young, and his mother was a single parent trying to raise the family and raise a couple of headstrong boys.

And so, when Horace Mann was 13 and his brother was 17, she was taking the family to church. They were very strict Sabbatarians and observed Sunday, the Lord's Day, very sternly. Their entire church did.

They came from a reformed Calvinistic tradition. And so, the oldest son, who was 17, told his mother, look, you can't make me go to church. I'm old enough, I can make up my own mind on what I want to do.

And so, he decided not to go to church one day with the rest of the family, and the mother and the other children, including Horace, all went to church. Well, that day, he went swimming at a local, the 17-year-old went swimming at a local swimming hole with some friends and drowned and died.

And the way Horace Mann interpreted this was that it was God's judgment on him for his rebellion against his mother, his brother's rebellion. And so, he decided at 13 years old, and there's a biographer who wrote a book on his life that's the only biography endorsed by Horace Mann's widow.

She signed off on this particular biography and said, this biographer got it right. So, I think we can take it on good authority that this is true, what the biographer says about him. But she says that at 13 years old, Horace Mann decided that any God who was capricious and arbitrary and evil enough to kill his brother for merely breaking the Sabbath and disrespecting his mother was vindictive and cruel and therefore not worthy of worship.

And the biographer says, and Horace Mann decided that day that he hated God. So, you know, you have to understand that this comes from a very strong place of rejecting the doctrine of original sin, that Horace Mann resented the thought that he was a sinner.

So, he embraced Unitarianism, which is a theological belief system that rejects a personal infinite God, rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, and basically just believes in kind of a spiritual essence or force of moral goodness that's kind of within all of us.

I mean, if you think of John Lennon's Imagine song, it's kind of the worldview of Unitarianism. And so, that's what Horace Mann embraced. And so, he believed that if you could get children away from their parents and you could indoctrinate them into a kind of Unitarian worldview where you take away biblical doctrine, that everybody is born morally good and we would all just embrace this moral goodness and become a kind of religiously neutral, but morally good society.

And so, that was his motivation behind it of why he wanted to do that. He believed that people would be at their best if we could just rid America of all religious dogma. And particularly, he resented the concept of the doctrine of original sin because he didn't see himself as being a sinner.

So, anyway, yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. I mean, you probably see this as well. I know the rest of us see this, that the people's biggest objection today to God and Christianity is the problem of evil, right?

If God is so good and so powerful, why do bad things happen? And it seems like that was the exact issue 150, 170 years ago with this guy. Now, of course, in 1850s, you had the rise of Karl Marx. His writings were getting really popular at this time.

Darwin was at this time. They were at the height of the philosophers in writing what we now term as Marxism, but at the time was just their philosophy that was about humanism and against God that came out of the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods.

I mean, so do you think he was in part a product of all of the writings of the philosophers? I mean, centers were really in France and Germany at the time as far as my reading goes. Totally. I mean, so I'll try to back up really quickly and then move forward.

But yeah, you go back all the way to Plato. In Plato's book, The Republic, book five, Plato said that children should be taken from their parents at birth, put into government orphanages, and raised by total strangers.

He said that no parent should know his child and no child should know his parent. Every child should be raised by the state. That was Plato's suggestion back in what, 300, 400 BC. And so he says in there that the separation between parent and child should be so complete that he believed in conscription and drafting of women from the local townships and communities to have to go to these government orphanages to nurse the babies who were taken from their parents at birth.

He said that the separation would be so complete that some women would inadvertently, accidentally nurse their own biological children, and yet they would never know it because no parent would know his child, no child would know his parent.

And so he had a model for public schools that he proposed all the way back in the Republic. And he said, he conceded in the Republic that it would be very hard to implement this, that he thought very few people would actually go for it.

But he said, I think I can demonstrate that if it was implemented, it would be to the greatest benefit of the state. I mean, so it was like, it was like a Marxist idea way before Marx. Well, then you fast forward to the time of the Enlightenment where they're digging out all these ancient Greek philosophers and reintroducing them to Western Europe.

And Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who was one of the Enlightenment fathers, who really was the father of the French Revolution, he wrote a book on education in the late 1700s, proposing a system of public schools.

So in many ways, Jean-Jacques Rousseau was the father, ideologically, of the modern day government school system. And he said in his book, Émile, on education, that same thing, children should not be raised by their parents, children should be raised by the state.

And he actually believed that so much that while he never raised a child and never married, he did have a live-in girlfriend for nine years. And during those nine years that he lived with his girlfriend, he brought five different children into the world.

And as each one of his children were born, he carried them down the street to a local foundling asylum, which is a government orphanage, dropped them off in a basket at the door, walked away, and never saw his children again.

Five biological children in a row, Rousseau did this with, because he believed that children should not be raised by their parents, they should be raised by the state. And in his book, Émile, he says, if you want, because he's giving a template of what public school should be, he says, if you want to know what public school should look like, read Plato's Republic.

So Rousseau was the guy who really started this idea. And in the countries where the Protestant Reformation had had the strongest influence, places like England, Holland, Switzerland, Germany, they burned Rousseau's books in the public square and said, anyone who would suggest that children should be removed from the home and taught by strangers, particularly government officials who their parents don't even really know, anyone who would suggest that kind of a model or a paradigm is clinically insane and should be locked up.

That was the visceral reaction to that proposition, that idea in the late 1700s in Western Europe, the idea that parents wouldn't raise and educate their own children, that the government would educate children, that was anathema, particularly to people who had come out of the Reformation.

So Rousseau, who totally rejected the doctrine of original sin, influenced Froebel in Prussia, who again, never married, never raised children. If you read the history of government schooling, you'll find most of the heroes of the government school system never actually raised their own children, but they sure told everybody else how to do it.

Do you have a book on that, by the way? It's up here. Yeah. Okay. So that's the next one you have to write because that is fascinating. That's the one I got to get on paper. Yeah. So yeah. So then Froebel, let me just say something else here.

Really, it was the doctrine of original sin that was the linchpin to starting the government school system. That was the issue that predominantly led them to do it. It was a visceral reaction in enlightenment philosophy that said, because the Reformation happened in October 31st, 1517, when Luther pounded the 95 thesis on the door at Wittenberg, that's where the Reformation started.

And one of the doctrines that was recovered by Reformation theology was the doctrine of original sin. No one's born morally good. Well, the enlightenment was a rejection of Reformation theology. It's named improperly because it wasn't light.

It was darkness. It was philosophical darkness that they brought into Western Europe. But what they said, John Locke started it by saying children are tabula rasa or clean slate or morally neutral. And then Rousseau said, no, children are morally good.

Froebel said, children are morally good. But what Rousseau believed was he believed that children, if left to themselves without their parental influence, if somehow they could be raised in an isolated environment without their parents corrupting them, that they would grow up and become the pinnacle of moral perfection.

And he had a concept that he taught called the doctrine of the noble savage. And he said, if you could leave a baby deserted on an Island and let this baby grow up all alone with no human interaction, that child would become the pinnacle of human perfection because he believed that what corrupted a child was we're all born good, but then when we get together and we interface with each other, we corrupt each other.

I don't know if you follow the logic on that. I don't, but we're all, we're all morally good. But when you put us all together, we corrupt each other and make each other bad. That was Rousseau's theory.

Froebel agreed that children were born morally good, but he rejected Rousseau's concept that society was what was corrupting children and making them bad because he was a tutor or teacher of these boys from like the age of five to nine.

And one thing that he noticed about his boys that he was teaching was that they were very, very bad. And he couldn't figure out how did they go from being born morally good to being very bad at the age of five to nine.

He decided that Rousseau must've been wrong on the nature of the corruption because it couldn't have been society. These children are too young. They've never even interfaced with society. So what, what, um, Friedrich Froebel decided was, you know, like, kind of like a Sherlock Holmes detective, you look at who had the opportunity and who had the motive.

Well, the only people who had access to these children was who? Their parents. So then the only other question was, okay, so it had to be the parents cause they're the only ones who had the opportunity, but what was their motive?

Why would parents take these perfectly good, morally good children, um, and corrupt them? And this is what he wrestled with in his book that he wrote on education called the education of man in the late 1700s in Prussia.

And he was trying to figure this out. Why would parents morally corrupt their children by like the age of five, six, seven, eight, nine. And he was never able to resolve that in his own mind. He had kind of a Unitarian type worldview as well.

So, but, but here's what he decided. He decided, I don't know why they're doing it, but they're doing it. And so these parents are terrible, horrible, uh, you know, abusive people and they need to, their children need to be taken away from them as early as possible.

So all of the early education initiatives, headstart, preschool, kindergarten, he's the one who coined the term kindergarten, which is German meaning kinder and Garten kinder means child and Garten means garden, the child's garden.

We're going to create this garden of protection around the child.

To protect them from who, from the parents. See this whole, this whole imagery of the garden is repeated just over and over and over and over and over again from Hegel all the way up to modern, uh, that all of their writing, like even I ran across a paper yesterday, I was going through stuff with my kids are in public school investigating it.

And there was this entire section like that was just about the brain development and the metaphor used was like a botanical garden. And of course they're horrible at making their metaphors and everything.

They can't hide their agenda for very long. They they're so giddy to reveal what they're really about. And it's, it's crazy the way that they go about all this. There's so much that you're saying here that is awesome.

And I want to ask questions and like plug in the things that I know, but I just want to hear more of what you have to say about this because this Marxist stuff isn't new. It's all based in, like you said, original sin.

The, the fall of man is not his sin and the rejection of God's command. The one thing that we were told not to do, we did. And so what they believe is that, um, our fall and the reason we're out of the garden is because of the division of labor and they have to seize the means of production and man.

And in Mark's view, in his ontology of man is that, uh, man creates society and society creates man. And so everything you're saying makes absolute perfect sense in the theological worldview of that dialectical materialism, which is the fancy term for basically everything, the snake told Eve, but yet they've, they've somehow branched it out and made this giant tree of death.

And it's, it, it's encompassing everything. It's like weeds in every single facet of life. I'm going to let you keep going. Yeah. Well, you're absolutely right about Hegel.