Debate 2024-04-11, AFTER SHOW, Is Jesus divine according to the Bible

CARM

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00:33

Test one. There we go. Now it's working well. Okay. Okay. So I put up all the information so that you guys can check it out at the calendar.

00:43

And if you want to come in and talk about the debate, that's fine. I've got the information up here for people who might be wondering where to get that information.

00:55

On the after show, you got to go here. All right. Got to go there.

01:02

There it is. And on the calendar, just go to click on a link in the calendar down there.

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And it'll have after show information. You can click on that as well. So there's that.

01:13

I'm going to edit it and make it look a little bit better. But whoa. I mean, whoa.

01:20

I was not expecting such convoluted logic.

01:28

It was, to me, it was pretty bad. It's just a demonstration to me of what

01:36

Islam does to you. It's really bad. So anyway, look, I do want people to comment.

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Come on in. I know it's going to take a little bit while I'm sitting here working on stuff and pretending to know what

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I'm doing. I'm getting the calendar information a little bit better as far as the size and the text and the font.

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I need to be a little bit better. I got to learn a little bit more about it. So there's that. And we'll do this one too.

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And we'll put that in there in the text. All right. So I'm hustling, moving, proving, getting it going.

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And that's interesting. Participate.

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There we go. To watch in YouTube. Here we go.

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Come on. And then watch in that. There we go. So there's that.

02:33

There's that. Wow. I hope you guys enjoyed it.

02:38

For all those of you who watched it. And oh my goodness, I could not believe it.

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It was really bad. Seriously, it was bad. There we go.

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Now it's updated in the calendar thing. All right. I don't know if you want to comment, Joanne. Come on in, everybody, if you want to come on in.

02:57

I'd like to hear your comments. Come on in here if you are interested. Now that everything is set.

03:03

It takes me a while. I have to put up, create a little thumbnail.

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I've got to get this address going. I've got to put it into here. I've got to switch this. It's a bunch of stuff I've got to do in order to make it work.

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So that's what I had to do. And I did it as fast as I could. Got it going. All right. If I'd have known that's how bad he was in his debate,

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I would have thought about just going away. It was, it was, yeah, it was a train wreck. It really was.

03:30

It was a train wreck. He did not know what he was doing. Sorry, but it was. Okay. Hey, come on,

03:37

Truth Defenders. Come on, somebody. Come on, folks. Come on in. Just come on in. I want to hear it. I don't want to be talking to myself the whole time.

03:43

I want to hear what you got to say. All right. I thought it was just a huge train wreck.

03:49

I didn't think he ever made any point except to talk about epilepsy and Down syndrome.

03:55

And I think that you were entirely too nice.

04:01

You think so? Okay. Well, okay.

04:09

There you go. Truth Defenders in the gym.

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So I don't care. Hey, come on in, Bill. What'd you think, buddy?

04:21

Put the camera where we can see you. Okay. I can't hear you,

04:31

Bill. No, it was, it was terrible. There we go. Yeah. It was, you don't want to see me. Trust me.

04:37

Yeah. It was pretty bad. It'd be worse. Yeah. I mean, baby, did you see me, but it was terrible.

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I mean, it was, and yet he tried to bait me, but it's like, no, I'm not going to go there.

04:49

It's not what the debate's about. Stick to the debate topic. And he admitted the Bible teaches it.

04:55

He admitted it. And then we're all gods too. What? It doesn't teach that. And it's like some of the worst argumentation

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I think I've ever heard. Oh man. I don't guess he saw it as taking the

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Lord's name in vain, but I did not appreciate him taking the Lord's name in vain. Oh, I didn't hear that.

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Did he? Okay. You did? He said the OMG. Oh, I didn't hear it.

05:25

Yeah. Yeah. I even provided the notes, the slides before our debate started.

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We started late. We had some tech issues. We'll work on those. Next time we'll do better. And, um, we started about 15 minutes late and at the top of the hour, 15 minutes earlier,

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I said, here's the, this is where you can find the information. In fact, let me go check it, make sure it is on there. Cause it was,

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I scheduled it for release and let's see.

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No, it didn't come up. Oh, there it is. Yeah. So I'll modify that as well, but it was bad.

06:08

He was bad. He also said while we were trying to get set up that this was going to sure be an easy debate.

06:17

Okay. Well, have you ever before? Or is this the first time? Ever what before?

06:24

Have you ever heard of him before? Uh, I, you know, I've heard of people. I forget people that are, oh, that's right.

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After a few days, I went up and I do remember that guy when I think I didn't, you know, it goes on like that. So I think

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I did. Uh, I think I have heard of him before. I did.

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Before you do a debate, you give them 20 questions to answer before you debate them.

06:53

Yeah, I have that. And I, we kind of let it slide. Uh, but I think we're going to start implementing it.

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If people just want a piece of me and, you know, and, and Bubba, I read the

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Bible once, so I'll debate you, you know, it's like that. Like what? So a total disaster.

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It was a disaster. It was a disaster. Yeah, it was. It seemed that the

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Christians he's been listening to were Joyce Meyer and, uh, Ken Copeland, the ones that call themselves little gods, you know, because he kept,

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He kept making that saying that that we're all gods Man, they're gonna answer for their their heresy that um that muslims would use that Because of what their heresies they were little gods, but yeah, it's bad

07:53

It is bad and it was bad. All right. So anybody else coming in? Nobody else is coming in y 'all chicken

08:00

No chicken They're coming in Come on Put comments in there.

08:06

What do you think? Uh, give me some uh feedback And uh, that'll be that.

08:12

Okay I'm waiting for you

08:18

Listen to blasphemers. Yeah, the thing when you talk like that, you know, um That they're false teachers.

08:23

Oh your private interpretation or false teacher. There's no reasoning with him. That's that's a problem And yet he he says no private interpretations yet.

08:31

He did Did it all the time? uh Yeah Main point is who does christ claim himself to be in scripture?

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That is the important thing if one does not believe this claims god. That's right What channel will your debate be on what debate?

08:47

Oh, he's truth defenders debate. Okay So, okay. There you go

08:53

That's it Actually matt, I don't know that you could see the chat but a lot of um,

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Regular karm people said they just couldn't take it anymore. Good night Yeah, I could see why

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That's what I did. I had to leave It was like it was just so bad 40 minutes a week of my time

09:15

Well when he said, you know, which is end of the day right here. I'm both. Yeah, that's fun. It's because You're so bad at this.

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It's ridiculous and uh Wow, yep Yeah, okay

09:29

All right, well that's it then no big deal well

09:40

We're just sitting here doing nothing. So no one's saying anything. No one's really coming in we can just end this it's just uh, Not really going anywhere.

09:46

That's okay but um I was hoping more people would come in but I think a lot of people just got fed up and just wouldn't watch it and that was it they were done

09:55

You have 23 people watching on facebook and something and I don't know how many we have in Rumble if anybody's watching it in rumble right now

10:04

Let's see if anybody is Um Nobody's really watching it rumble either.

10:13

That's all right I think it's because everybody couldn't take it any longer and left

10:20

Could be I think he was one of the worst debates i've ever had as far as uh being able to hold a cogent argument.

10:27

Um, He was condescending he was mocking he was insulting it was really bad

10:32

Uh, absolutely He was he was insulting. He was disrespectful

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He was uh, he name called I I don't have any and and you know at the beginning of the show.

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I called him. Mr. Ahmad And trying to be respectful, but he didn't respect you.

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So there Yeah, he was He was bad. It was bad.

10:59

Okay That's right karma says that karmem karm, what's your karma what's your phone?

11:04

It's your first name. I'm so bad with names What's your first how you spell your first name?

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Because I know karm is in it Karm, you know does um moderating for other people

11:21

Ministries karma, that's right. Yes. Okay Okay, okay

11:35

Hold on a second i'm gonna do something here uh see if um

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Andrew rapaport was telling me on thursdays. They have a thing that they do They go into apologetics. They have guests and stuff like that.

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He's just ending it I go I just get the url to come in here Let's see if he comes in here in the next few minutes if he does great

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If not, then no big deal we can explain to him how bad it really was. Oh, man, it was bad

12:04

It really was Man Oh well

12:12

So So bill, well, come on guys i'm just sitting here just talking constantly, uh

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It could have been a substantive debate I agree with you that's a good comment, uh, bravo bravo chick.

12:28

I like that And uh, let's see i'm gonna read some of your comments, let's see, um

12:35

It was train wreck says joanne, uh truth defenders at the gym

12:42

Uh, it's probably not apostate gym because he should be listening to the debate. Uh You think matt was checked out half the time?

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I was like what? Are you kidding me? Uh, he doesn't interpret yet.

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He directly interpreted a demon possessed boy is having epilepsy. Yeah Uh, yep, andrew was laughing about you texting him throughout the debate

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Like this guy's horrible, uh, let's see, um

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Truth defenders are debating him on sunday muhammad epilepsy demonic possession. That's probably why he had epilepsy on the parade

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Well truth defenders you're gonna now that you know what his argument is Now, you know, I mean if I had to write out his argument

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And then just go through and say this is why it doesn't work Oh, man, i'm like what?

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So jesus is not god according to the scriptures because a demon possessed person might have

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Remix epilepsy which causes confusion so you can't trust what the bible says It was so convoluted

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Wow, uh, you're gonna force yourself to to What?

13:59

Melissa, you might not want to because you're not a drinking woman. It might It might go bad for you might start

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Uh, it was bad Oh, you'll be moderating the debate on sunday. Oh, you know

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I could use Similar debate, uh moderators. I think dave did fine. It's first time ever and uh, he had to learn the tech

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But if you guys know some stuff I'm gonna start doing more debates like this on our own.

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Uh thing. I want to look at this Okay, so he's listening to blasphemers yes he was um, the main point is who does john christ claim that's right claim we already went with that Uh, what channel will your debate be on?

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Truth defenders. He's good. He knows what he's doing Melissa owns on. Oh, yeah mtm. Yeah, he's good.

14:41

I haven't talked to him for a while Don't fall for common sense's uh remarks, you know, he's attacked you repeatedly in clubhouse

14:52

In common sense Yes, whatever i'm always attacked uh

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The word nadir means the lowest point of anything fun fact Uh, no slackers.

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So see thank you for giving Thank you for giving you Thank you for giving you time to attempt to have an important debate, but your guest didn't have anything of interest.

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That's true I'm, not drinking gal, but it might need hey see Uh, see that's what

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I said I was scrolling through this stuff All right, jesus was a man, uh that god did his miracles through x 222 now, but you forgot common sense christianity.

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You forgot if he's common sense jesus claimed the attributes of divinity He said I will be with you always matthew 28

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Uh 20 he said he the father will come and live in you. John, uh, 14 23

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He says ask me anything in my name and I will do it john 14 14 So he actually claimed in his personhood to have those attributes of divinity by the properties of the divine

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So common sense if you're still around comment on that Uh, dave was great.

15:59

Dave did fine. Matt has no good arguments Okay And so, let's see, um, hi carmen anthony rogers anthony rogers anthony rogers seriously if it ever comes up to debate, uh,

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Uh nadir ahmed Seriously and i'm not not joking anthony.

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I mean One of the worst debaters i've ever i've ever encountered and that's no joke That's not a joke.

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He he He actually conceded the debate right away And then went on to proceed to put incredible, um

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Uh bad logic together as an argument. It was just incredible I'd go take our cat out.

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Let her cat out. We're babysitting a cat I can still hear you walking downstairs. You're doing all this

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I think that's quite enough of your opinions about the About non -trinitarian stuff.

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This is supposed to be an after show um The guy that matt just now this isn't a dig so that's really plenty

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And besides common sense you're not being logical you don't understand the issues and you can't answer the difficult question so You have no common sense

17:20

Which shows that you don't have common sense because they use the title common sense when you don't have any common sense It shows you don't have common sense

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All right You said the bad He Okay, so there you go, oh i was gonna put this in Uh, so if anybody wants to come in anthony if you want to come in or whatever

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But uh, yeah, he okay, you know him. He's one of the worst. Yeah. I had no idea. I had no idea how bad he was

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Uh, he was one of the worst debaters uh that i've encountered and um The past two or three debates the open thesis guys.

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They were right up there, too. I mean Incredibly bad incredibly bad argumentation was really bad

18:05

So, let's get rid of comments. He's not uh, he's not doing anything worthwhile just to you know, get rid of him so he's just uh

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Big a troll All right Well, that's it

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Okay, i'll ban him then okay Good All right

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Unless you had her doing something she told me but anyway Well, that's it, huh? I guess that's it and he's not coming in.

18:38

I guess I gave him the link but you know He said he was wrapping up. So maybe he's wrapping up taking a little bit longer

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What i'm thinking about doing is going into discord after i'm done with this I got an hour to kill him. I'll go into discord and do some uh

18:52

Q a which often happens What room are you going into in discord?

18:59

I don't know I just go into different rooms Uh to see what's happening Let's see

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Today at 8 12 just a little bit ago. Come on in if you want We can try and get it started christian apologetics a new server

19:13

Okay a new server called christian apologetics

19:24

Okay. Well, let's see where it is Get the uh Uh, I need

19:32

Okay Okay, there's erin oh my goodness look at that beard what happened to you

19:42

Well too many vitamins I saw my daughter the other day and I was going to tell her this beard is as old as her marriage because uh

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So she got married last year and I shaved for the wedding Uh per her wish and I haven't shaved since then so ah

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So I guess that's uh, what is that less than a year. So this is less than a year's worth Well, that was pretty good at least you can grow one my wife won't let me grow one

20:16

Ah, it's not like it's a love hate thing. I I don't like the process of shaving

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But at the same time I don't necessarily like the beard either Yeah I mean

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I I used to drive it has its benefits actually. Let me say that so One year in fact truth defenders here can testify to this.

20:37

I was with him At an arab festival. I think it was in arizona and The irony of the situation is we went to an arab festival

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And that means supposed to mean there's going to be a lot of muslims there We got there and there were these booths set up And at one of the booths were a couple of arab jehovah's witnesses peddling

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Warriors, so i'm thinking gosh we're at an event where a lot of people are already deceived by islam and here are these people inviting them to be

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Deceived by something else. So wow I was talking with them along with truth defenders and One of the guys got upset

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So he got up and he went to tell a security guard Is something bad about us we didn't do anything wrong so I wasn't concerned and The security guard came over and i've never actually played into some of this when people that don't have just grounds for Complaining or removing me from a situation.

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I just sort of ignore it until it can't be ignored So the guy comes over and i'm still witnessing to the man who's sitting down And the security guard comes over and he reaches out his hand as i'm saying

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Without looking at him. I said Whatever that guy told you It's a lie

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We're just telling these guys the truth And the guy reached out his hand and he he shook my hand and he says

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I know brother I know keep up the good work and he walked away And suddenly I realized

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The guy was a muslim And he thought I was a muslim so The beard the beard factored in he thought

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I was a muslim and walked away So it was great

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Wow serves a purpose Well good My wife said if I grow a beard no smooching

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Yeah, that's uh It can't have that adverse effect

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So That's right, that's all right, it's okay It was a debacle.

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It really was the guy Seriously, i'm not trying to i'm not trying to speak ill about him behind his back.

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But in in all honesty His logic was incredibly bad ignored what the scripture says.

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He actually got it's so bad of an argument Like did he really say that that? The reason jesus is not god is because God is not the author of confusion

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And in the bible, it says that demons act like epileptics So therefore you can't know if an epileptic is demon possessed or not

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That's why jesus is not god Right now so of course

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And first of all jesus was not confused on whether this was demonic possession or not being the son of god

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He certainly knew Yeah, secondly, we're not confused because jesus in his word tells us this man was demon possessed third

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You know, you've heard this sort of thing if not this terrible form of it, but you've heard the claim

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Certain doctrines believed by christians aren't true because they're confusing Therefore they're not true because god's not the author.

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You've heard that a million times, right? Not the bizarre nadir form of that but just the just the claim that Because something is difficult for us.

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It's it's not true. But of course when paul makes that comment, which is strange by the way for an for a muslim to be

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Appealing to a line from paul paul's the big bad guy according to muslims, you know

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So he's he's appealing to paul here when he says god's not the author of confusion And he's certainly not being consistent with muhammad because muhammad's god is the author of confusion.

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He he loves confusion, right? But When paul says that he's talking about How the church worships he's addressing the problems in the corinthian church when

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Certain people with certain giftings are exercising these gifts in a disorderly way, right?

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People are speaking out of turn one person is giving a revelation in a tongue and no interpreters present and there's just all this problem afoot and paul saying the lord

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Doesn't give these gifts for that purpose. You guys are misusing them Right, and this isn't something that he endorses or is pleased with but that's not saying that every doctrine of scripture is

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As easy as Counting one plus one. I mean if that were true, then islam is false because I can assure you there are doctrines within islam that Aren't going to be quickly picked up by a child right

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Oh, yeah Yeah, he He was horrible Oh boy.

25:38

Well, yeah, he's well known. Um, I have no idea For being what? terrible

25:44

Oh, yeah, I had no idea. Yeah And so we have a thing on karm where if you want to debate me you got to answer these sets of questions

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I think i'm going to re -implement that because It's just you know weed out some of these guys.

25:57

It's just ridiculous he was pathetically bad Yeah Yeah, I used to think

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I you know, these are Not just academic exercises. I still think this these are witnessing opportunities

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But for that reason I used to think anybody who comes along wants to debate i'll debate but eventually

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I realized you know, there's several billion people in the world that Want to debate and I can't possibly do that So there's got to be some selectivity and what's going to be profitable one of the hard things some people might not think about this, but it can sometimes be harder to debate somebody that is

26:39

Extremely irrational. Yeah, you know, it's like when you think about if you make an analogy to fighting

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It's sometimes harder for a trained fighter to fight some wild flailing Person coming out of their back alley than it is another trained fighter because That the untrained person is throwing wild punches that don't make any sense

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You know the trained fighter there's a rhyme and reason to it and so Somebody like nadir you don't sometimes

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The ridiculous nature of it Makes it difficult to respond to because you still you have to get over the

27:22

Weird claim before you can even think about responding to it Yeah, it's just you know, it's not very often you hear an argument and you say

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He can't even see how bad that is and he thinks it's good it's not because We don't understand it.

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It's because it just is that bad And then you try to explain it to him and it's a convincible ignorance and this guy literally

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Insulted me mocked uh, he said Uh, i'm not whining complaining.

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I'm just saying It's like what he said wacky clacky interpretations baloney interpretations silly interpretations

28:07

Matt's being disingenuous. He's being dishonest and i'm sitting going. Wow It was just amazing, you know, and uh, he even admitted the debate was uh is jesus divine according to the bible

28:19

I gave him scriptures and he said well, yes, it was it says that he's divine right there But it all says everybody's god.

28:26

So if everybody's god, then you don't know if he's god not What? So you admit the bible says it and then he went to get this

28:34

He went to john 10 34. I said you are gods Well, that means we're all gods. You can't trust what?

28:40

No, no, let's go to psalm 82 read what this is explain everything. This is what the church has taught

28:45

That's what the jews have taught about this. This is what it is I just dismissed all of it and said that's just your private interpretation

28:52

Your personal is what? I said I said maybe you're not listening. Are you in this debate?

28:58

You know, it was like that and at one point he said maybe we should just quit and just go i'm going. Yeah, that's fine

29:03

I guess it was just more inane person from him. It was just ridiculous

29:09

Yeah He's famous for declaring victory early on You know i've won this debate it's over that sort of thing.

29:20

Yeah. Yeah No matter how bad he's performing. He'll he'll repeat that. Yeah. Um, yeah the john 10 thing

29:27

I think i've heard him mention that before And I mean there's two things i'm sure you if you addressed it if it was relevant then you know you had the goods on him, but You know, obviously this is a powerful text for the deity of christ

29:47

Yes, it is the the pungency of it is all the more clear the more time you have obviously in a debate you have to be able to make points quickly, but The thing

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I usually point out to people is what number one this this dislodges his private interpretation thing.

30:03

John's gospel has a prologue That tells you how you're supposed to interpret the narrative so if you're coming

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Out of a text thinking something different than what the prologue already said Then you're the one that's giving a private interpretation.

30:18

John already tells you how to read his book in the prologue He tells you jesus is the eternal word.

30:24

He became flesh. He's the complete revelation of god and the way of eternal life and so When you look at so here's the thing.

30:35

I love this actually john 10 And I know i'm not teaching you this but for the benefit of the hearers here, but the in john 10

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Jesus said to the religious leaders because they're objecting to his claim to be deity He responds to them.

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It says in your own law. I said you are gods and but but what he says the the precise thing that he says is

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That he called them gods to whom the word of god came So in psalm 82 you've got these earthly judges they're being condemned there for not judging justly

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You've got these judges That are being called gods by virtue of Their status as judges.

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They're ruling in god's stead with his delegated authority They're exercising his authority to the extent that it's been delegated to them

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According to the word that has been given to them, right? So jesus says they were called gods to whom the word of god came, but then he says this

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If if they're called gods to whom the word of god came do you say of him? Whom the father set apart and sent into the world

31:47

He is blaspheming when he says he's the son of god I mean, this is a classic argument from the lesser to the greater if they could be called gods

31:55

Because the word of god came to them And they ruled on that basis How much more can the one who was set apart by the father and sent into the world?

32:04

And if you're if you read john's gospel from the prologue the idea is

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They were called gods because the word of god came to them, but he's not a man to whom the word of god came

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He's the word of god who came to men And so of course he can be called gods or god if they can right?

32:23

I mean, he's the Uh, it's just like we are sons in the sun. Well, they're gods by virtue of Being in him or to the extent that you know, there's another thing real quickly that uh stands out about it in psalm 82

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It it's talking about god standing in the midst of the gods. He's surrounded by them

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These wicked gods these wicked judges that he's going to punish The setup in john 10 starts in verse 22 where it talks about the religious leaders surrounding jesus

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So here's jesus surrounded by all these religious leaders and he condemns them as false judges

33:03

While propping himself up as the true god. I mean, it's the setting of psalm 82. It's beautiful Yep I explained a lot of that to him.

33:12

I focused on the issue of this is the context of the unrighteous judges We read through it. I said notice the

33:19

Condemnation that follows us in imprecatory psalm. I said he's applying this to the jews right here

33:25

So this is a condemnation on them. That's what's going on Okay, and I said and by the way

33:31

They denied that he was god in flesh just like you do you agree with them and I just threw that in just because whatever but Yeah, and then he just dismisses it.

33:40

Oh and he said melchizedek melchizedek He's he's without uh, you know Genealogy and all this he's divine.

33:47

See we're all it's either many gods. I said well, there's two schools of thought you know when that's just a

33:52

High mighty title and one is it's a christophany. Okay, and so he said well see there's a confusion

33:58

When I said let's just assume it is a christophany not that I believe it is or whatever

34:04

Let's assume there's nothing wrong with that because here's the verses where it happens in the old testament It'd be consistent with it and he's still be part of the trinity because he says that means melchizedek has you part of the trinity

34:13

So now you have four like dude, you have no clue no clue about our theology.

34:19

He doesn't know what he's doing That was bad Hmm I could do a tag team debate with you sometime.

34:26

That'd be fun Yeah Yeah, yeah I uh

34:33

Like I said, i've been a little more selective one one thing is You know on the one hand

34:39

I do like debates on the other hand. I hate debates Sometimes I get to the point of The debate and I think what am

34:48

I doing here because One is I I don't like hearing the heresy It's nauseating to me and and some of it's worse than other, you know some of it it's

35:00

No, blasphemy or heresy is good. But some of it you're kind of used to right? We're used to hearing the things mormon say and jehovah's witnesses say but As you've discovered over the years

35:12

All the work you've done you know, there's no end to the weirdness that people come up with and Every time

35:20

I hear something new I think I could have lived without ever knowing that right never hearing that never thinking that Uh, and so, you know some of this stuff like you mentioned open theism

35:32

I didn't watch that debate precisely because and I heard it was a debacle

35:38

I didn't watch it because I knew I I just I don't even if they were the best behaved types of people

35:46

The stuff they say The the guy you debated maybe you don't want to comment on it as somebody that debated him or whatever, but i'll say it.

35:53

I mean I've heard that guy say in prior debates that god was wrong for punishing david the way that he did

36:01

And i'm thinking who are you? Oh man to talk back to god like that Uh god was wrong to take the life of david's son

36:12

Actually four sons. Let's get it straight, right? So if you didn't like the one that he took out he took out four

36:17

How's that? Uh, and if you have a problem with that, you probably have a problem with the flood with god killing eight, uh natav and abihu or aaron's sons, um

36:28

And on and on we could go and you know, I hear that sort of thing and I think you know, it's uh

36:34

I it's one thing to have an errant theology, but now you're just saying things that uh,

36:42

To me are the you're talking to me. You're talking about the god

36:48

That I love right the god to whom I belong and you know It may mean nothing to you to say that sort of thing

36:55

I mean, I I don't mind if somebody says that sort of stuff about me Usually when people i'm with you i'll defend i'll defend god

37:02

I'll let him say it and then i'm on him like a monkey in a cupcake You rip it up Yeah So I I just don't like Some of that and then

37:11

I get into some of these debates and I think now i'm about to listen I gotta see when I when I start a debate that i'm listening to I have the option of turning it off But once i'm in the debate,

37:21

I know I gotta actually listen to this guy now. Yeah and Well, it was seriously at one point

37:28

I was i'm ready i'm done He just it was just that bad. It was just He didn't know what he's doing

37:34

I I pointed out several problems. He had Ignored them dismissed them was insulting was con condemning mocking

37:42

It was it was just like come on guy, you know, uh, I thought he was a bit better than that But uh,

37:47

I was wrong. So he also said mormons were christians Hmm. Oh, yeah

37:54

Yeah And I you know, I said I know mormonism very well and I said i've been studying it for a long time

38:00

And it's not christian. It teaches this and that is it and joseph smith said, you know, god's at any rate.

38:05

It's just Anyway, yeah Well, look i'm being paid for a server to go to on discord a new server called christian apologetics

38:20

Hmm You ever go on discord? Uh, I I had gone on a few times before they made this change and I haven't tried to since then.

38:31

I don't know if I have to do an update or what but I just haven't well I would recommend you get on there sometime, uh and try and be regular use your real name if you can

38:40

I use mine because After a while you get a reputation and if you're an apologist of any

38:48

You can answer questions What happens is you go into a room people follow you into the room and you're arguing with one person politely

38:55

But 80 people are listening and it's a good way to to witness to others

39:01

So yeah, it is Yeah, somebody sent me a message I still have to get back to him inviting me onto one of their channels on there or something like that uh

39:12

Yeah, just like I said But yeah, it's hard at work sometimes but um

39:19

But anyway, that's what it is and i'm gonna go in there and Just do a little q a that's what happens.

39:25

It's a good place to practice and and uh and stuff But yeah, if you ever want to do a a tag team debate

39:32

Let me know I did one with andrew rapaport, you know andrew, right? Or do you know andrew? Yeah What topic did you guys do?

39:39

I think it was the open theism debate. Was it 10 or something? I can't remember. I just you know, but uh

39:45

We we did that together and it was you know, it's fine, you know, there's no big deal But boy tonight was a debacle

39:54

I haven't heard so much in name persiflage in a long time So nadir he has a history of crazy antics, um really one one that was uh,

40:06

I mean I I so Nadir has been around a long time and this is saying something because uh muslim apologists i've been engaging muslims for 30 years and Many of the ones that are debating now haven't been around for a while Yeah, uh shabbir ali is a mainstay

40:25

He's but most of them are gone Yeah, yeah like 30 years ago. There were others and none of them around anymore so they they don't have good longevity and I think it's because once when they introduce certain crazy arguments they might prevail

40:43

Temporarily, but then people develop responses to them and then these people it's like their whole

40:49

Apologetic case has crumbled and they don't know what to do They need a new zacher knike to come along and develop a new way of arguing and so a lot of them fall off the map

40:59

But nadir is one of these guys that just doesn't know how bad he is and he keeps going. Yeah, well

41:06

At one point so he disappeared for a little while But then he came back and he I could I saw right through it.

41:11

I I know nadir He so what he started doing was he started sending out letters to different groups uh as if as if These were letters being sent from a bigger organization

41:25

And trying to get them to talk to one of their guys, right so he'd send it's just him he'd send out these letters and say hey, we saw you on this show and Uh we have a a scholar in our group that would love to interact with you and maybe uh ask you some questions and he would pitch it like it's just a friendly discussion and Wants to ask questions.

41:51

So he actually sent it's hilarious. You have to watch this if you haven't seen it, but he

41:58

He sent a message to michael brown once and and again It's he's pretending like it's a group

42:07

Speaking on his behalf and he wants to ask michael brown as a respected jewish christian

42:12

What he thinks about some of these things, right? So uh So he wants to talk to him and ask him some questions about deuteronomy 18 so he gets on there and I knew there was no organization, but uh whole point is when he gets on there it becomes evident that There was no group that was doing this

42:34

It was just nadir and he wasn't really interested in asking questions. He wanted to try and debate And he got absolutely schooled because Some of the stuff that he was probably used to getting away with when it came to Points of the language, you know grammar and things like that uh, he was just outgunned there because The typical muslim spiel is to say well the term brother can mean

43:00

Uh, not necessarily an israelite but an israelite they're brothers to the israelites and There's more going on in the passage and it's just ruled out.

43:09

So anyways, it was hilarious because He it was just deception all the way through and it was exposed

43:17

So I thought that was hilarious Well, hey, you know god allah is a deceiver to begin with so hey, why not?

43:24

Yeah, I just follow you know with it Yeah, yeah I actually use it on some muslims.

43:31

Hey, are you practicing taqiyah right now? And they said no i'm not. How do I know? How do I know?

43:36

You know because you can be lying about lying And I had a fun with it Just to do that any rate

43:43

All right. Well, look i'm gonna get going a better server over there. One, two, three. It's a brand new server There's only five six people in there all right discord

43:51

I put the uh Here one more time the link. I don't know what oh it's in the It's been um

43:58

Pinned right there discord Thanks for joining us anthony You're awesome anthony.

44:03

I always learn from you. You always have good things to say man. I'm always learning from you. So good stuff Well, thank you for all your years of service

44:12

Hey, it's service. I don't know if it's good service, but it's service You know just trying that's all

44:19

All right, brother. Hey everybody. God blessed. Thanks for it. And uh, we'll talk to you guys later