Bonus: Secret Hearing Lands Pastor in Jail for Refusing to Stop Pastoring

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The Bonus Episode and the Arrest of Pastor James Coates

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We have a special bonus episode for you today. The guys from Matter of Theology and myself got together to discuss a pastor from Canada of Grace Life Church, Pastor James Coates, when he was taken into custody by the police there for holding church services and was told that he could be released from jail if he'd stop being a pastor.

In other words, stop doing what God called you to do and we'll let you go. So he's going to remain in jail because that's what faithful men do. This is a long episode. Longer than we usually do. But we're going to have some surprise guests come in.

Pastor Carl Hargroves from Grace Community Church under John MacArthur. Daryl Harrison, who now works out there at Grace To You. And Kofi Abanbunu, who is a friend of ours. And they're all going to weigh in on this.

And it is packed full of stuff. Stay tuned to the end. There's a lot of encouragement at the end. So this is a bonus episode, something special for you, coming your way on The Wrap Report. One, two, three.

GraceLife Church, the COVID Order, and the Secret Hearing

Welcome to The Wrap Report with your host, Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Okay, welcome everyone. This is kind of a special episode. This is not what we normally do. Wednesday night, most people are in church mid-service. I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternity Ministries.

I'm joined by Chris Huff and Drew Von something or other. I can never pronounce it. Nada. It's not important. It's not important. But from the Matter of Theology Podcast. So let us just give you guys a quick rundown of what we're doing here tonight, what the plan is.

And I'm going to hand it over to Chris. So Chris has been in discussions. If you see the description here of the show, a pastor, James Coates, was basically threatened with arrest for having church services.

Then they put out an arrest warrant for him. And what ended up happening is what we're going to talk about tonight. Secret hearings, not letting anyone know where they're moving him to, and then him having to remain in jail until he gives up pastoring.

He must stop being a pastor to be let out of jail. That's what we're going to talk about tonight. And so this is really Striving for Eternity, my podcast Wrap Report, and Matter of Theology. But Chris, you've been following this very closely.

I know that I listen to Matter of Theology. I know that surprises you. I understand. I am that listener. Now you know who it is. The one download we get. Right. Yes, yes. Every other week. Yes. For those videos, just real quick, for those who are watching on video, this was set up kind of quickly, and clearly I wasn't given the dress code.

All right? Just for everyone watching, Chris and Drew did not give me the dress code here and let me know this is a collared event. I'm sorry.

Well, can I just say, you know, I'm traveling for work this week. If I would have had, though, a BB1 to wear, I would wear one right now in honor of Pastor Coates. So James and Aaron refer to me as Chris BB1.

And what's fun is I told her, I was like, that was actually Drew's BB1 that I was wearing at the Christaform conference. I let Chris borrow it.

I said, man, you're speaking at your first conference. I will let you wear my BB1.

Yes, yes. So I wore it proudly.

And we'll mention for folks who are watching, we're going to be putting up comments, there are instructions on how to get your name to show up so it doesn't say Facebook user if you're watching on Facebook.

If you're on YouTube, no problem. We can see and say hello. But here's a Facebook user. It says, secret hearings. That sounds a bit like the trial of Jesus, lol. Yikes. Yeah. Yeah.

So just kind of some background. And I'm just going to read. Actually, I pulled up my notes from our last episode of Matter of Theology entitled Training for Persecution. And this is what had been going on at Grace Life Church there in Edmonton.

And this is what I wrote. I just said on January 29th, 2021, it was reported that Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Canada, was ordered to close its doors to the public after defying the rules for gathering because of COVID issued by the Canadian government.

Pastor James Coates is the lead pastor at Grace Life and is a dear brother and whose bride, Erin, is a friend of Matter of Theology. Alberta Health Services issued a work order back on December 17th that did the following.

Quote, the Alberta Health Service, or AHS for short, ordered directed the church to immediately ensure congregants were wearing face coverings when in the building, ensure members of different households keep at least two meters apart, provide AHS, that's kind of a tongue twister, with information about the building's capacity and not to exceed the limit of a 15 total capacity at any one time.

The December work order also required a relaunch plan template to be filled out, outlining all activities that take place in the church, including meetings and other gatherings, details of risk mitigation measures to be implemented to prevent the transmission of COVID -19 and the process by which they will monitor the number of people inside the church.

Period. Close quote. Then on Sunday, January 21st, 2021, health officials went and inspected the church during their Lord's Day gathering and noted the following violations. More than 290 people attending the church on January 21st, in excess of the 15 total operational occupancy load as per the Alberta fire code.

They were standing room only. By the way, let me pause there to say that, Erin, let me know that since this has gone on, since the Alberta health services and the R I think it's the RHCP there in Edmonton have drilled down and trying to make an example out of grace life and pastor coats at no request of theirs.

People have been coming health or health officials, officers of the law are coming and getting saved because of what's happening there. And so I'll keep going, but yeah, they've been standing room only.

Church attendees, staff volunteers were observed unmasked in the church lobby and the sanctuary. It appeared that church attendees, staff volunteers were not maintaining at least two meters physical distancing from other households and the relaunch plan template had not been submitted.

So on Friday, January 29th, the government ordered pastor pastor coats to close the church to the public immediately, including all his congregation, church members and attendees. And, and then I quoted what Aaron, what Aaron has sent to me with her permission.

Amen. Carlos. I could not agree more with that statement, sir.

You got to read the statement when you do that. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. He said, people in your podcast, don't worry. You know what's up. People on your podcast won't read what. Oh, it's on the screen, right?

Yeah. Cause we're going to, yeah. Turn this into a podcast episode.

Hello. Um, Carlos, uh, Carlos said this, he said, if only more pastors would have this courage, uh, and this, and then let me add that, that, that resolve. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. Uh, but this is what Aaron told me, um, when I was preparing for the, for the podcast episode, she said, quote, our men have a weighty task ahead of them.

What is so hard for me is all the herding sheep from all over Edmonton who have come to grace life church because they are starving, weak and wounded. Unbelievers arriving, needing hope. We are literally busting out of our building and they want to restrict us to 15%.

And I just, I sent a message back to her and said, we are praying or, you know, uh, please tell James that we, we love him. We are praying for him and thankful for him. And, and she responded, she said, thank you.

Uh, thank you so much, brother. Uh, it appears that an order, uh, that in the order that it is a voluntary closure, even citing in the article that our health services and RCMP, there it is, uh, we'll be there this Sunday to see if we're complying.

We think this means it should, we should be okay to meet. I'm in awe of the Lord. The courts have not followed through as of yet with their threats. They said James would be charged this week. Now they're saying he would be summoned next week.

If we don't close this Sunday, each Sunday we gather as a true gift. We're praying for another facility. If they lock us out, the Lord is working. I'm so encouraged by all the responses and people being encouraged to pursue Christ more fully.

Uh, what more could we ask for? So many unbelievers coming, we're literally busting out of our facility. I'll let James know. Thank you again. We sure need the prayer and period close quote there. Um, you know, so, um, uh, and then a Facebook user just said, uh, uh, I, I've no doubt this is soon to be in the U S I would agree with that.

Um, so, so since then, uh, what, what, what's transpired now and, and Aaron and I have been in touch. James is not on social media. Um, and, uh, and, and, and so today, and I've been, I've been following up and just letting her know, Hey, we're praying for you guys.

Let us know if you need anything. Um, and she's been keeping me up to date as far as, you know, each week. Um, and, and this past Sunday they met, uh, again. Um, I mean literally busting at the seams and, um, pastor James preached an excellent sermon.

If you have not heard it, you are missing out. Um, it is, uh, it is entitled quote, directing government to its duty, close quote. And it is an excellent exposition of Romans 13, one through seven. Uh, James does a great job as would be expected, uh, as he is a graduate of the master seminary.

Um, but, uh, you know, of, of, of talking about what, what the government's duty is and then how we as believers, yes, we're called to be obedient and we can be both obedient to Christ and commit civil disobedience at the same time.

And, and how we do that is by when we commit that civil disobedience that we quietly, humbly accept the consequences that are coming our way. The government can act however they feel like they should.

They will be held accountable to the Lord. Um, excellent. Go, go, go listen to it. So, um, another Facebook user said that they'd burn us at the stake if they could. Um, yeah, that, that, that's happened throughout church history.

Um, study church history, uh, study it, it, it, it clearly shows that. Um, so, uh, so, so, so since then, uh, I asked Aaron, you know, uh, yesterday, Hey, how are things, you know, how are things going?

And this was the update she said to me today. She said this quote, and I've posted this on my, my, on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram. But, um, she said it has made its rounds. It's, uh, it's been retweeted and quoted over a thousand times.

It's, uh, thankfully, um, and, um, and, and, and, and, and awareness is being brought to it. A hashtag, a hashtag pray for James coats has started. Um, and, um, uh, so, so, uh, so yeah, it's, uh, this is what, uh, this is what, um, she said to me today.

Um, Hey brother, uh, here's James update. I'm sorry for the copy and paste. Uh, she said, quote, quote, uh, James has been in isolation in a cell block since yesterday morning. His hearing did not go.

Didn't go very well. The crown went for the jugular. Uh, the JP, uh, it says, uh, says he didn't want to detain him. He wasn't interested in making a martyr of him. He could walk. Listen to this. If he just sets aside his God given pastoral duties, but he can't do that.

He has a hearing today to set a court date for his charges. It's very possible. They will, they will remand him until his court case. The crown has called him a danger to the health and safety of Albertans.

May God have mercy on our nation. I read to my children, the work that the Lord is doing in, in, in the peoples though. So, so I'm sorry. I, I'm sorry. Let me read that again. Um, I read to my children, the work the Lord is doing in peoples through James.

So they can see the sacrifice of their father is not in vain. My prayer is that men will stand. They can't see that if they shut us down on this issue, they will shut us down on any issue they deem to be a quote danger to the health and safety of Albertans.

So then, uh, uh, maybe an hour later, she sent me another message and it says this quote, my heart is broken. They tried him in secret. The officers lied to us and told us he wasn't there. They tried to hide him and sneak him out the back door in the providence of God.

One of our men was there. The officer only allowed him to, to tell him that he loved him and we're here with him. They pulled him away. They have remanded him as our lawyer seeks the appeal. The conditions of his release are that, and I quote, he would not pastor anymore.

And she said, I cannot visit him. I asked her permission to share this. And she said, and I quote, yes, share,.

Get it out. This is so evil. Okay. So I'm going to bring in, we have a guest. I think he's in his car, but none other than Mr. Carl Hargrove who is here. Welcome Carl. Hello there. How are you doing? Good, good.

We're glad that you were able to jump in even from the car. Yes,.

Sir. And I'm traveling the wide open spaces of Southern California highways. Hardly anyone around me.

And you're probably snow free. Unlike us. Yes, indeed.

Um, boy, I am. Um, I just got in on the call and heard the letter from the updates from James wife and heartbroken. I was on the phone call earlier with Mike Hovland and my connection to both men has to do with the master seminary and also grace community church.

Yeah. Mike Hovland and the ministry that I oversee at grace church, grace advance. He is one of our, uh, he's in our grace advanced network there in Lacrete, Alberta, a beautiful area, which I've visited before and hope to go back again once we get out of this COVID environment.

And I actually spoke to Mike. It could have been mentioned already. Mike was actually driving down about seven hours from Lacrete to go to Edmonton to speak with the elders. And, um, actually now think they would be in their meeting now discussing their next steps, um, in ministry and at grace community church, uh, our men are aware of it and it will be a point of discussion and our elders meeting, uh, this, well, actually tomorrow evening and surely we'll be praying for them.

Um, and we thought about at least we've offered Mike, some council, what they might do next. And even if it comes to other arrests taking place and how we may be of a support to them. And I'll hold that close to my chest until we think that through a little bit more and make it public.

But we are definitely supportive of them and what is happening there. Uh, when I saw the tweet and then even got the information from Mike Hovland, who, although he's in Lacrete is still an elder there at grace life church.

Um, and I saw this image, I'd be, although I didn't see it, it was so clear in my mind of a man who is cuffed in his ankles and in his wrist as if he is some serial murderer that we must accost that it's sort of every expense less he go and do damage to others.

The image is just repulsive really. Yes,.

Sir. That was, that was the thing when I heard that from Chris, I was just shocked that like he's such a threat to society that they have to, you know, not just handcuffs, but when he turned himself in and yet he's such a threat that they have to cuff his ankles.

Oh yeah. Cuff his ankles.

I mean, this is just, it's just ludicrous that they would take some steps as if, what is he going to do? He's turned himself in. He's a preacher of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is trying to save lives.

That's right. And you treat him as if he's one that's seeking to take lives. Yes, sir. Um, how unfortunate, but this is the spirit of the age. Yes, sir. And this goes beyond for right now, at least in my opinion, it goes beyond the debate of should they gather?

Should they not? Obviously some churches have decided not to gather. Some are just, um, having a virtual meetings, but how do you handle a man of God this way? Why would you do that? Unless there is something that is even undergirding, I believe the policies and restrictions, um, that you have in place.

This is justifiable. I don't understand it. Well, I do and I don't.

So, yes, sir. Yeah. Pastor Hargrove, I, I, I could not agree with you more, sir. I, I, you know, it's, it's the offense, you know, and, and, and, and he was so crystal clear in his sermon on Sunday, um, about what, what the intent is.

Um, and he, and he even said, he said, I don't care if we're being persecuted. I'm not doing this because I'm not saying we're going to gather because of persecution. I'm saying we are going to gather because we have a mandate and a command from our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ to gather together.

And so that's what I'm going to do. Uh, and he went on to say, he's like, I'm not a faith leader. I'm, I'm an ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ sent from heaven with a message of light in the gospel.

And, and, and, you know, I, I think back to, of course, where, where you are with, with Dr. MacArthur. And he said all the time that the gospel is an offense and, and to hear that you are a sinner and you must, Oh, the R word repents of, of your sin.

It, it, it's, it's offensive. And they're, they're seeking to make an example. Well, I think so.

It's, it, it surely is with the means that they've taken. They want to make some statement to place the fear of men and others. Right. And he's an example at this point of that. You know,.

One of the things that I noticed, I did a quick search and I see a number of mosques that are open now. I don't, you know, for anyone in the Edmonton area, I, I would challenge you to go Friday and check out the mosques.

I know when, when this whole COVID thing started and they were shutting down churches in New Jersey, I actually drove on Friday to some mosques and parking lots were full. They had no problem with it.

There seems to be a bunch of other places that can have 50 capacity, a hundred percent capacity, right? You know, it's just the church that they're limiting to ridiculous numbers. You know, Pastor Carl, you had over at Grace Community Church when it was first opening a seating that could seat, I believe it's 3000.

Yes. And you were told that you can only have a hundred. Yeah. So a hundred, you know, that's a little bit more than six feet. Yeah.

In what sense does that make? There's such inconsistency in the application of it. You know, had they said, say, for instance, you can see 3 ,500 surely you can, let's have 800 or a thousand in there that will give you proper distance.

Nope. Well, he is driving, but no, not, not at all.

Yeah. Here's, here's someone that's saying they get, they got the bars open. Yeah. You know, it is interesting how, how the government is using this to choose to pick and choose which businesses can stay open and, and how they can, they're targeting.

It seems at least in the States, we've seen them targeting churches and synagogues, but it's not an equal standard. Right? No,.

No, it's not. And we should expect it. I think that this would occur. Um, yeah. And think about it, the body within the church body, there's a division over this because obviously certain churches have made a decision to do otherwise.

Um, and we're not here to debate that at this point. Um, a part of it is they've made a decision as an entire body to gather, um, so that they can worship their God. But again, the treatment is, it's not commensurate to the crime.

It isn't. So the question is why this sort of treatment? And I think it's what's underlying it is I believe, and this is surely just an opinion. Um, perhaps is it a hatred for the gospel message itself?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that I actually think that this is, they've been wanting to do this for the longest time, many. And now, now they, they're using COVID. Someone, someone had commented about that, that they're using COVID as a, as an ends, you know, a means to an end.

The, the end is they want to get rid of the gospel and, and they're using this as, Oh, you don't care about people's health.

Well, and, and yeah, no, absolutely. They're using COVID as the vehicle to do exactly what Jesus said in John 15. Um, if the world hates you, you know, it has hated me before it hated you. And, uh, verse 19, if you were of the world, the world would love its own, but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world because of this, the world hates you and the message of offense.

And so they're using the vehicle of the pandemic to do so. Yeah. So,.

So let me ask this. We have a Facebook user that asks a question and, you know, Carl, I'd love to get your input here. The question is what should Christians, especially Canadian Christians do in light of the recent event is it's kind of frightening to think that this is happening right in my home and native land.

At least for me, the calls breaking up a bit. Okay. So the question, the question that was asked was basically what should Christians do, especially Canadian Christians in light of these events?

Well, um, they should follow their spiritual leadership, but that's also hoping that their spiritual leadership will make decisions based on biblical convictions. Yep. Um, I want to be careful in saying, because Grace Community Church has made this decision that you must do the same.

Someone, you need to understand this. Even at Grace Community Church, we initially, um, we were not meeting face to face. That's right. We were not for months. And we made a decision to say, what is really happening here?

And who has the ultimate authority over the church? That authority has been given obviously through Jesus Christ. And then through Jesus Christ to the elders and leaders of any local congregation. And now we have to make a decision for our local congregation.

What is the best decision for us? Will we jeopardize our clear authority of Jesus Christ by not gathering? And we had very engaging conversation amongst the elders over this issue. How do we apply our call to submit to authority?

Um, is this an example where we can disobey the authority? And obviously we drew a conclusion that it was, but people need to understand that that conclusion wasn't automatic. It involved us engaging with one another in considering the implications of scripture and also the clear commands of scripture as well.

And I would say that for our brothers and sisters in Canada to go to that same process, um, that you have biblical convictions and once you can arrive at those, then you make a decision, but at the same time, be prepared for some consequences.

Now we have had some brothers in other parts of the world where they were very strict. Um, I don't know if we, Oh, sorry. Let me see one out there from it, whether a very strict, um, very hard restrictions that is.

And they made a decision for a while to simply go underground. Hmm. Um, and that was their decision. We will gather, but they decided to meet underground after they had been threatened that the next time they meet, because it was a different country, um, that they would be shut down.

And that was their decision to make. Um, but now what has happened since then, um, some of those restrictions have been lifted and in part because there are any number of churches throughout that country, um, that were disobeying and the message got to the highest powers in the country that this is wrong.

You can't do this, especially when malls are open and bars are open and other places are open. Had there been a universal application of it, perhaps we would consider it, but it's not,.

It's not a universal application. Yeah. Yeah. I had, I had real trouble here in the States when the churches were, were shut down because it would, you know, it would spread a virus, but then they had all these riots and protests and they said, that'll bring healing.

That'll bring herd immunity. It, it, it really displayed the hypocrisy of what was going on. Oh, that's, that's almost comical, isn't it? Yeah.

Sadly comical. Gentlemen, um, I would love to talk with you more, but I've made it to my appointment and, and I have to bid you a do, um, may the Lord bless the rest of your conversation and, um, let us all be praying for James and Grace Life Church.

Yes, God will be honored through it. Yes, sir. We thank you that you could, that you can make some time to join us.

We appreciate that. Thank you. Sure. All right. Take care now. You as well. You know, Chris, let me ask you, there's a question that's come up a couple of times here, and that is, um, people are asking how we can help the family.

Um, the, the, I'm trying to find the actual question so I could put it up, but the question is basically, is there a way to financially help this family to help, um, with their, I mean, obviously this is not going to be a, here it is.

Uh, Shelby for Christ said, how can, how can believers help this pastor slash family financially with legal fees and et cetera? Cause this is going to get mounting. Do you have something, do you know of anything that they've started?

I know we, we know that GoFundMe now doesn't let Christians actually raise funds. Um, they, they shut that down. But, uh,.

Do they have anything set up? Uh, I reached out to Aaron to ask her that very question, uh, just because I was asked that question on, on Twitter this afternoon. Um, and, and she said right now, uh, they are good, uh, financially.

They're, they're supported in every way. Um, their attorney is a solid attorney who is working pro bono for the glory of God and for the edification and the building up of his bride. And so, um, I, I did ask that question.

Um, and, uh, and so, uh, so, you know, should, should something like that, uh, come up? I mean, we will absolutely, um, absolutely let everybody know. Um, definitely. So, but fantastic questions. Um, I would say this one practical way that you can, you can, um, uh, bring some awareness and visibility, uh, to this is the premier, uh, of the, of the, the section of Edmonton that they are in, uh, is on social media.

Like most politicians are, um, and there have been numerous people who have asked him, uh, Jason Kinney is his name. Um, you know, are, are you going to let this stand? This is not right. This is not okay.

Uh, you know, a shame, shame on you. Uh, God, God will judge you, uh, for, for your actions. Um, and so listen, I would say this, let's, and I want to be careful when I say this. Um, yeah, yeah. I, I, I saw, I was flipping to the passage of scripture that Darrell, uh, yeah,.

I was going to read that. Cause we look for folks who don't see what I just put up. You know, someone said, strike the hammer. B B three is in the house. Um, and Darrell posted Matthew five 10. So let me just read that.

Cause look for folks that don't know Darrell Harrison, wait, have you had your head in the ground somewhere? Like where have you been? Just thinking podcast, go subscribe and listen. And then you'll know why we're like wondering where you, where have you been?

But Darrell, uh, Darrell had said, uh, Matthew five 10, which says blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Come on, come on. Well, I tried getting him on.

I gave him the link. I gave, I gave him the link to say, Hey, come on in. Cause you know, we want them more than just in the house. I would love to know. I would just look, Facebook user showing the love, love, love, Darrell.

That's right.

Strike up that Hammond. If there are two people who are exactly alike, it's Darrell and Chris. And those two talk all the time. I know because Chris tells me. Yeah, we, we, we, we do have a lot of conversations,.

But, um, yeah, no, Hey, listen, Darrell, Darrell spot on here and blessed are those who are persecuted for, for righteousness sake. And, uh, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So, um, and, and, and that's evident by, by what you've seen God do at grace life.

That's evident by what you have seen, um, through, through the views for James's sermons that have, that have, have shot through the roof. And he doesn't care about stuff like that. That's not what it's about, but, but let me say this.

If, if you're going to suffer, if you are, we need to remember that when we are, I'm getting there. First Peter chapter two, verse 23. Oh, actually let me back up. I'm going to back up, uh, to verse 21 for you have been called for this purpose.

Since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, an example for you. And, and, and to, to follow in his steps, verse 22, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth. Verse 23.

And while being reviled, he did not revile in return while suffering. He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting himself to the one who judges righteously. So James has done this. I mean, he, he's not standing up saying, woe is me.

Look at me. I'm persecuted. He has faithfully stood and said, I cannot, and I will not go against the mandates and the commands found in the scriptures. He has stood faithfully and said, the government is overstepping its bounds.

The government is reaching into a place and trying to assert authority where they have none. The Bible is the highest authority that we have. It is the written word of God. He has stood on that and said, I can do no other here.

I stand. And then he has now entrusted himself to the one who judges righteously. James, every, he was arrested at the church a few weeks ago. And thankfully the authorities did it behind the scenes in the office.

He went out quietly. He didn't make a stink about it. He didn't stand up and say, look at me. He pointed to Christ. And then today, according to Aaron, when they said, all you have to do is recant and rescind your God given mandate and call.

That's all you got to do. We'll let you go. That's it. We're done. And he said, I can't, I cannot do that. I think of the words of Dr. Steven Lawson. When, when Dr. Lawson says, and I think he's quoting drew, you may have to help me out here.

But he said, if you've been called to be a slave in the master's house, why would you stoop to be a king? Yeah. And quoting Spurgeon right there. Right, right. Thank you. Thank you. And, and that's it.

And today I'll have to pull it up. But Jeremiah Johnson, man, again, if you're, if you're not following guys like Jeremiah Johnson, please, you're missing out. But he, I don't know if, I don't know if I'll be able to find it like on the spot, just cause there've been a lot of interactions on Twitter today.

But he posted a quote from actually, I can probably find it pretty quick. Posted a quote from the book final word. And, and it's a, it's by Dr. John MacArthur. And I am scrolling. Okay. You, you scroll because we're going to, we're going to bring the man into the house.

Okay. I found it. Yeah. Well, you've just been upstaged. I mean, look, there's Daryl Harrison. Once you get him there, there's my man, the B3B free right now. Okay. What's going on gentlemen. Can you guys hear me?

Awesome.

Hey, hey, Andrew, thanks for the invite, man. Yeah, no, it would be good to get, you know, your thoughts on some of this. That's, that's going on.

You guys are a welcome break from this course. I'm taking that Princeton right now. So this is, this is much better than this. No. So, so the quote I found from,.

From Jeremiah, just along those lines, and then I'm going to turn it over to my brother, Daryl. This is Dr. MacArthur. He said, quote, John Bunyan, the great Puritan preacher and author of the Pilgrims Progress, remained in jail for 12 years, but it wasn't the prison bars that held him there.