Matt Chandler's Failure is Cedarville's Problem

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00:07

It's that it's fascinating to me how easily someone in one religion can find the fallacies and biases in another religion

00:15

I think that what's fascinating your raise your razor -sharp on your your your criticism of Islam here

00:21

Yeah, and but what I find fascinating Jeff is that you recognize that with other religions

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But you don't do it with your own because I that may be the case And there's that confirmation bias coming up again

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Apologetics live to answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries

00:51

All right, we are live apologetics live here to answer your questions any questions you may have we will do an open

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Q &A at the tail end of this show But if you saw the title of this show, we're gonna have some more difficult issues to cover and we're gonna be dealing with some texts of scripture because I'm very frustrated in what

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I've seen in some reporting in the news and so We're gonna end up dealing with that in a moment.

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Let me first just to get out of the way Not that it's not important, but it we want to get on to the show

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I do want to let you know that we we are gonna be doing on May 30th a free

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Seminar, it will be Justin Peters and myself. It's snatch them from the flames home edition we will be covering the topics of the sufficiency of scripture and the

01:51

How to interpret the scriptures Justin Peters will take the first one on sufficiency scripture I'll cover the topic of how to interpret the scriptures.

01:59

Then what we're gonna do We're gonna take a lunch break after that Justin Peters will deal in a little bit detail

02:06

It's gonna be a longer session Covering how to discern false teachers and then after that I will do

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I'll go through the whole book of Jude and so that's gonna be longer than an hour probably as well and We're gonna deal with how to identify false teachers.

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So that's May 30th You can go to striving for eternity dot o -r -g and the information will be there

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If it's not there now, it will be there soon So just go there and look for the information to register and that is free of charge

02:40

Justin I because we're not traveling. There's no sense in us kind of charging because we just it's really our time

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That is the issue. So And just and I both of us do not take speaking fees

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We just asked for travel to be covered. So neither one of us wanted to to put a fee to that.

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So What we want to also do is let you know that this is also a

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Podcast if you want to go to apologetics live on any podcast app, you can subscribe and listen to these regularly

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Christian podcaster or someone who likes to listen to Christian podcasts You can go to Christian podcast community dot o -r -g to listen to all of them

03:30

And we will be having tent. We have a debate that we're trying to set up Tentatively may 28th.

03:37

It will be a baptist and a lutheran's and so they're going to deal with the issue of baptism

03:45

And so we're trust we're trying to work out all the details on that. So when I get those I will give those to you

03:51

All right So what we want to do is we want to Uh cover some issues here

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That I think need to be addressed if you have heard

04:06

There is issues that are going on at cedarville university and um, i'm going to bring my

04:13

My guest host in here Anthony, dr. Anthony silvestro

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Um You and i've been doing a bit of research on this these this issue um, the issue deals with cedarville university

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And it deals not directly though. We We want to say from the outset

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Uh, both anthony and I are not going to address the specific issues of whether we think

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Uh, dr. White at cedarville Uh has has done wrong or not because we're waiting for the investigation

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There's an investigation that's ongoing there. We're going to explain everything that that has happened but we believe that internet bloggers uh

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Or you know shouldn't be jumping, uh beyond what actually could be known and i'm going to show you that there is

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Some a lot of blogging that's going on about this and some of that is i'm going to argue is for a purpose

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Uh people who have something possibly against cedarville and dr.

05:21

White um, I also believe that There may be other

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Reasons and we're going to get to that but I do I I will say that I do think that this

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Problem that is that cedarville now has to deal with is the fault of someone else and that is matt chandler of village church

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And so for full disclosure because I think anthony you wanted me to make sure I I mentioned this

05:51

For full disclosure, I do know. Dr. Thomas white. Um We we have communicated on several occasions.

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We've spoken at conferences together. Um, I I find him to be a man of integrity

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And and this is going to be a thing that I believe i'm if I see someone who has a history of integrity

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I'm going to be more likely to believe them over people that have a history of a lack of integrity and um

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We're hopefully going to explain some of that throughout this program so uh, any any

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Things that you want to bring up anthony before we get started with some of the the clips we have

06:36

Well now I think I should reiterate though that that's uh right now Thomas white is innocent right,

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I mean he's innocent and and unlike what uh The me too movement has been doing in in recent times as well as just lots of other people is

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They're very quick to take allegations and propagate him to the point of being true or almost true and and slandering people

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So much so that even when somebody is found to be completely innocent That their the reputations are destroyed forever

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And and that's the part that could be unfortunate in a situation like this So we just have to we have to keep in mind that thomas white is innocent right now um, and and I also

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Before you go on to that. I I are you telling me the me too movement?

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I mean Joe biden's automatically guilty You know So so let's

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I mean because this is actually you bring that up You know the me too movement, but this is a good example of something for folks who didn't see like page 35 of the the new york times when the whole thing came out when when uh, brett kavanaugh got

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You know when he was in There was an fbi report that was done And there was a gentleman.

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I forget his name now, but there was a gentleman Who was in that fbi report who admitted to being the one that actually raped that woman

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So all of those democrats when they were Arguing either they didn't read the fbi report that they didn't want released.

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They wanted the fbi investigation. They didn't want it released But if they read it, they knew

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Kavanaugh never did it but even till today you still have them

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Arguing that kavanaugh is guilty of rape and yet joe biden now kavanaugh

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There's no evidence that they actually that he and this woman actually met But within the case of joe biden

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She actually worked for him There's actually Records that she's been saying this for a long time

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That can be documented unlike the kavanaugh case or word that they were documented She came out with this years ago, and it was just kind of brushed aside um by their staffers so I mean a double standard that we do see a standard where if you're in the the right side of History party politics, whatever really, you know social justice

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You get a pass when you do the very same things that they accuse others I mean, I think it's a great illustration because they knew kavanaugh was innocent

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He never did it, but they tarnished his reputation anyway and this is why I think we have to be careful and deal with this properly and look at the evidence.

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We actually have not what we assume that Yeah, absolutely

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And and I think that that's a this kavanaugh and and biden issue, you know There's there's been charts floating around on facebook.

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I was trying to pull one up right now I couldn't grab it right away But it goes through a list of like 10 or 12 things down the left column, right?

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and you've got kavanaugh and biden at the uh, the top of two columns and it shows that uh,

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When you look at allegations and the Allegations that seem to be more true versus others you can literally check the box right on down the list for biden because of Because of the proximity like you already said of the of the accuser the uh

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Not only in in time, but also in space right as well as so many other factors in all of this and yet Kavanaugh was put through the ringer where biden has been given a completely free pass

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And so it goes to show that the me too movement. They they really don't care about The females that they say that they're trying to protect they care about an agenda that they have what their what their major agenda is and and you know,

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I guess it's a great segue into what we're what we're dealing with right now because So andrew you might be able to to give viewers a little bit better of an understanding than even

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I can When thomas white came to cedarville He had a clean house

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Why? Yeah, and I think he did it in a and this is going to be part of the thing You know is that thomas white is very conservative

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And you mean like the bible? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm just making sure that we were we're making that association

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Ethan is named cedarville is his second choice for colleges right now Well, I I would say um ethan that it's it would be my

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It has been my first choice for people because of thomas white um

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So when thomas white got there the church the the seminary, sorry the school was going more liberal like many

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Let me any seminaries have done many christian universities have done um I we may

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I may bring up some some other things with other universities Tonight that we see where they're going more liberal

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And it takes a lot to turn that around Thomas white did something when he got in And I had heard about this

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You know after I had this happened before I knew him But what he did was he he basically gave the doctrinal statement first cedarville to all the professors and he gave them

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Uh, you know, basically their contract said that they had to agree with the doctrine of cedarville

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Now he realized that as with many universities you get professors who don't agree, but It's it's kind of accepted that they just they've been teaching there they get allowed to keep teaching there they get tenure

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What what he did was he basically wanted to clean house So he offered as far as I understand he offered all the professors that anyone who could not

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Agree to the doctrinal statement of cedarville Uh, they would be given One year's salary they could work for one year.

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They could teach that year And then they would be let go and get a whole year severance

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So they had two years to go look for work and and still get paid however

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If they signed the document Saying they believe in it and it is discovered that they do not believe in it

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They would they would the agreement in the contract was they're let go immediately Now what that did was it got a bunch of people that saw the writing on the walls knew it's better to take the package and leave

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And so it was a very good way of kind of cleaning house and and still respecting the professors who had been teaching there

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And had been uh, you know some for years, but they can move on and But he wanted professors that were going to teach

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Basically the bible when my daughter and I should as full disclosure my daughter attended cedarville and loved it

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Uh, my son -in -law also is a cedarville graduate And my pastor's kids all are yeah

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And and i've spoken in chapel there so I mean we it's not that There's not a relationship that we have there now anyone who's going to argue.

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Well that makes you bias I'm going to argue that I think that the people breaking this story have a bias as well

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Um, however, I will also say that people who know me people who've watched this program for a long period of time

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They know that I have a record Of respecting other people's opinions and not misrepresenting people

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And so I think that even if I have a bias I have an ability to put that on on The side to be fair with information given

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And and look here's the reality too is people should be able to listen to this show And recognize that we are doing nothing but presenting the facts that are actually known the facts that are actually out there versus The rumors that are being spread by sources that have not provided evidence of what they are claiming to be at least at this point

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Yeah, because and we'll get to the fact that claiming someone has evidence and actually showing evidence are are two totally different things

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And so one of the things that really impressed me with dr White was when he had all the parents at the you know

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When you take your kids to school that first time the kids go and do stuff And then dr.

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White actually wants to speak to the parents and it was really interesting. I mean so much of his focus was on Training and discipling christians to impact the world

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He he you know from what I know Uh from a you know, someone who you and I have a you know is a friend who also knows him

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A doctor knows. Dr. White. Uh, he said dr. White could probably been the president of any seminary

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But he said at seminary you have an influence on churches Where at cedarville he has an influence?

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That that permeates the world every career And that's what he was looking to do.

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And that's what he was telling us parents. He wanted to see these kids be strong Christians so that they would take their faith serious.

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They would go and evangelize in the the pharmacy, you know the Business world the computer world whatever career path they take that they would be strong christians

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Evangelizing and making disciples so much. So a couple times in as he's talking to us. He's going they're going to get a good education, too

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It's almost like that was a secondary thing He was like you're paying good money for this. You're good. They're going to get a good education, too

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And the reality of this is that I I saw that with him Uh, we saw that uh when there were issues early on with page patterson

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Who was one of the trustees? Uh thomas white was very quick to remove him as a

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As a trustee before The others I mean he was one of the first to to take action so You end up seeing that there's he he has a history of Being quicker to take action to do what's right

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And you know i've i've been able to see I believe there's some things i've seen that show some integrity

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That he's willing to do what's right and i've i've had some private conversations with him on areas such as social justice and things that uh, you know

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Go on with within that and he has taken a good strong stance on that and I I see him as a man of integrity

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All right now Could he be so let's get to what the issue is

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And then we're going to back up to why we we think there's issues with with matt chandler and what the connection is

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There is a Dr. Anthony moore was at village church

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And while he was at village church Uh, it is now reported That he had uh, he he's a man who's married.

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I think he has two children But at the time he was a pastor at village church Uh, I think the fort worth

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Pastor or lead pastor at the fort worth campus and so for folks who don't know the way that is is you have guys who are lead her pastors or in this case lead pastors of a

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Campus, even though matt chandler is the pastor that's over several churches There are churches that do that and what happens when it comes time for the sermon time they bring a screen down and you have

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Like a satellite church, but they have local pastors. So he was the lead pastor at that satellite uh, he was

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As the records seem to show now he was leaving his phone at least five times in the shower recording one of his other staff members

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A subordinate to him. Uh, this is someone the victim and dr. Moore went to school together

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They had um There seems to be a very uh The relationship between them was uh, the victim described as very dependent

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Uh that that more was dependent on the victim that uh, um the it seemed that uh

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It was verbally abusive emotionally abusive that dr Moore was verbally and emotionally abusive to the victim

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And so the victim one day discovered this phone in the shower and found it was recording

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Him he downloaded four videos of himself In that he had found on on the phone.

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So he had a record of it Uh reported it to village church and dr.

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Moore was fired uh About six months later. Dr. Moore Uh, it seems through the influence of page patterson who was a trustee uh, page patterson seemed to be the one to to Try to bring him in brought in dr.

19:52

Moore Thomas white dr. White would not allow him to be a professor. However There was some strict

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He he said that he had spoken to anthony moore and in that conversation

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He felt that this was a from what he was told and this is what he has blogged about thomas white and so this um

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Everything i'm saying you could see on his blog Uh that he was told that it was a short -term thing.

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In other words, it was kind of like a one -time a one -time type of You know happened there was it was something with video and Sexuality, so it wasn't we're not sure whether At least what the church was told village church.

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We'll get to that in a moment but it doesn't seem like I mean you could have assumed as what

20:41

I did when I first heard of this that it might have Just been pornography And maybe it was a one -time failure um so When you look at that It had to do with with video harming someone else um

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And there was some immorality in it now if Dr. White believed that this was a one -time failure

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Not something that occurred over many months that uh, he he said that he was willing to go forward with the idea of it being

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Something of a reconciliation now he was he was told supposedly

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That dr. Moore is not qualified for any ministry So he was hired in an administrative role not a ministry role

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Not a professor role. He was not faculty. There was rules. He had to be at every chapel

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He had to have weekly counseling with dr. Jason lee he had to Uh, there were restrictions.

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He wasn't allowed to be alone with students He had to uh meet with all students and faculty in public so There were things or at least students in public

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Um, so there were there were rules and there was things that he had to do

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In steps of a five year reconciliation plan And as christians,

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I think one of the things is we we do have to recognize reconciliation is something we should be looking to do

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We don't just write people off and reject them Okay, so I I I want to believe that dr.

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White had good intentions of reconciliation Now there's claims that he knew all the details all along Those as far as we know are claims i've looked through many

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Excuse me Many of the blog articles that i've seen and i'll probably have a lot of them listed in the show notes

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And and you could look at them yourselves I didn't see anything in them that Showed that there were claims of emails claims of proof

22:54

But they didn't have it. They didn't show it So, you know actually andrew this might be a time if I can read a couple of things.

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Yeah, so we have We they're the only email that has been Leaked out as this potential terrible evidence.

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I you know, let's let's let's listen to what these words are, right? so this is a letter that That's dated.

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It's an email from thomas white in july of 2017 Sent to his board of trustees outlining this plan he has for um

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Dr. Anthony moore So he writes this Please allow me to request a prompt response to this first item if you're not comfortable with his direction

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I'm working with a young man named anthony moore He was a student of mine at southwestern seminary worked for me there and I consider him a friend

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I know him. Well Jason lee was also his phd supervisor knows him Well, he is a conservative evangelical african -american with a winsome and charismatic personality

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Who has a phd in theology? He was serving as pastor of the fort worth campus of the village church in january.

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He had a moral failure and had to step down His failure in general resulted from being sexually abused from the age of four

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To somewhere between eight nine years old which caused him to struggle with same -sex attraction While he has a strong marriage and three kids the scars of his past never dealt with During a dark moment of questions temptation and curiosity

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He acted in perversion Technologically with another person there was never any physical contact but these actions were wrong and caused him to step down so if if we just stop there in this in this email it's

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We could interpret this all kinds of different ways The me too people Want to interpret this in the absolute worst way possible and yet this could very easily be interpreted

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Right because our job is to give the benefit of the doubt especially do a guy with with uh um the type of pedigree that that's uh, that thomas white has had in his life in terms of um, his being upstanding

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When we look at something like this, this could just be Pornography. I don't want to say just right.

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I mean just Pornography is bad. That is that I assumed when I read

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What thomas wright blogged about what he wrote to the trustees what he wrote to you know as a supporter of cedarville

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He wrote, you know, I was I I was in a a group of supporters known as the president's club

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He wrote to us. He wrote to all the supporters. He wrote a letter what he gave to the trustees

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He wrote a blog he spoke about it in chapel I mean the thing is he immediately took action when he found out there was more details.

25:41

He immediately fired And anthony moore Not only immediately fired him but he went out of his way to be public about it

25:53

And we'll get to that in a bit so continue Well, I mean in that letter that's really all there is that's pertinent to this but this would also be very similar to What is in thomas white's letter that he wrote in his blog

26:10

Just in the last week, right? So he says um, I believe it was saturday january 14th 2017 when

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I received a phone call from my friend former student and former employee dr Anthony moore. I first met anthony around the spring of 2006 when

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I answered the call I knew immediately from the tone of his voice that the purpose for the call was not a joyful one

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He told me he had wronged another person in a morally serious way using video and technology

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But his transgression was not physical in nature He also told me that he was he would lose his ministry at the village church.

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He was repentant sobbing and crushed I was heartbroken for my friend his family and all parties involved and so we see a another very very similar blog

26:57

You know a very similar wording in the blog here As what the original email was um this

27:06

According to what we have evidence wise it his train of thought is here No physical contact

27:13

Something with video with another mail Yeah, and and so let's let's look at the scripture that he that thomas white used for what he was doing

27:24

And that's james 5 19 Which says my brothers if any

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Among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back Let him know that whoever brings him back a sinner

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From his wandering will save a soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

27:44

That was his intention to to live out that passage he's Dr. White In all that i've read has kept a consistent story

27:55

That becomes important because if someone's lying they usually give out a little bit more detail and You you pick up the lies that way

28:03

So far, he's been consistent now you could argue He's consistent because he knows he's going to be investigated and he's worried about his job.

28:12

Okay, that could be Maybe he's just really intelligent. Well, actually he is really intelligent.

28:17

So Is that the purpose well he's he's it seems

28:24

In the communications he made years ago Not recent but years ago in letters to his trustees.

28:32

It was the same thing the goal of reconciliation Yeah, so oh go ahead now

28:41

I so This is where I think the trouble comes into play and I don't know if you're ready to transition now towards village church

28:50

But here's here's what I find to be troubling and I think we're going to lead it off this way In thomas white's letter.

28:57

It's a long letter Read it, you know, I think it's it's great for people to read but um

29:02

From the part that I read just a moment ago. I'm going to go a little bit further down now He talks about his plan of restoration for his friend.

29:11

Dr. Anthony moore And he says this here You're reading from the blog article i'm reading from the actual blog article thomas white's letter that up while you read it, okay

29:21

I know so Yeah, right there. Thank you. Perfect. Perfect spot So he writes

29:27

I took the following steps in my efforts to develop this plan Spoke on the phone multiple times with elders at the village church

29:35

Okay. Now let me repeat this because this is gonna be really important Spoke on the phone multiple times with elders at the village

29:42

Church matt chandler's church thomas white spoke to them multiple times. Okay, let's go on Corresponded on an ongoing basis with the village church

29:53

As we designed in our plan. So not only did he speak on the phone with the elders multiple times at village church

29:59

He also corresponded on an ongoing basis with village church as they designed the plan for restoration

30:06

He spoke with members of the cedarville cedarville university board of trustees to gain input and expertise acknowledging the risk of attempting to restore someone

30:16

Obtained a letter of support from someone who had been meeting and working with anthony Obtained a letter of support from a counselor who had been counseling with anthony over the previous six months

30:25

Okay, interesting there Obtained a letter of support from a pastor who knew anthony as a high school student officiated his wedding and counseled anthony and his wife through this difficult time

30:35

Talked with anthony several times with dr Jason lee dean of the school of biblical theological studies at cedarville and others about the situation and about the need for ongoing counseling and accountability in order to proceed with restoration

30:49

Performed a criminal criminal educational and employment background check which all came back clean on july 7 2017

31:00

Yeah criminal as well, right And we're you know, the reason why to bring up the criminal aspect of it

31:10

Is because according to uh, texas law what he would have done is a criminal offense

31:23

And there was a investigation That we have so what we end up seeing is

31:31

There there was no criminal record even though What he did was a criminal offense now, we're going to hear

31:40

Why that may have been? Uh, what I want to do is kind of move to the factor.

31:46

Why is it? I believe that matt chandler and village church is guilty Or has the the the responsibility to bear let's start with scripture.

31:57

It's a good place for us to always start Uh, let me bring up a passage of scripture that deals with how to deal with pastors

32:05

So this is first timothy chapter 5. I'm starting in verse 17 and you can see it on your screen

32:11

If you're listening on the podcast, then you'll just listen to me read and uh Don't mind all the markings that I have in my bible.

32:19

It's just the way that I Do my study Yeah All my highlights in different colors and things, uh, see

32:27

I have a I have a blue letter bible see right there look blue letter Um, actually i'll tell you the the color coding and as you read it you can know it anything that's in blue there

32:39

That's blue and bolded like that. Uh, those are Are definite articles? Anything that's red and bolded

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Is a command in greek. It's an imperative Uh, and then I just kind of number things so, okay, let's let's look at this

32:55

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of a double honor especially those who labor in preaching and teaching

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For the scripture says you shall not muzzle an ox When it treads out the grain

33:12

And the laborer deserves his wages Now here's becomes the issue verse 19

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Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses

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For as those who persist in sin Rebuked them in the presence of all so that The rest may stand in fear

33:40

In the presence of god and of jesus christ and of the elect angels

33:46

I charge you To keep these rules without prejudging Doing nothing from partiality.

33:53

Do not be hasty in laying hands on uh on laying on of hands

34:00

Nor partake In sin of others keep yourself pure All right.

34:06

So these are instructions to timothy I really want us to focus Starting on verse 19.

34:13

This is the instructions of what we do When there is a sinning pastor It's we do not take it lightly

34:21

But if a pastor is sinning, you don't just take it on one person's word. You have to do some investigation

34:27

You already saw that thomas white did some investigation into this Uh to verify things and that wasn't for a pastor position.

34:35

That was for an administrative position So But when a pastor does sin on verse 20, what is the command?

34:46

from god It's to rebuke them in the presence of all if you have one who persists in sin.

34:53

This is not I sinned one time This is a pattern of sin and in dr.

34:59

Moore's case this went on for six months With five different videos that were recorded.

35:05

So this was not a one -time thing So what does scripture command?

35:13

For matt chandler to do in this case matt chandler If you notice

35:19

I told you that Red bold means it's an imperative the word there for rebuke is an imperative

35:26

Let those who persist in sin those who those pastors who persist in sin There to be rebuked in the presence of all so that all would stand in fear

35:38

There's a purpose for that. In fact I would argue that that is the best thing that you could do for a sinning pastor

35:47

If a man is persisting in sin to make it public It does several things one.

35:54

It makes the congregation realize we take sin serious here. We're we're concerned about the purity of the church

36:01

Okay Two it lets them know he can't hide Because what many men do and this is a problem that you have in many churches

36:11

I have counseled Dozens and dozens probably a hundred churches that have gone through difficulties and i've always given the same advice, especially when it's a pastor

36:22

Be public about it Don't try to put it under the rug And most churches what they do they try and take it easy way out.

36:31

Let's not mention things. Let's not talk about it Let's just be done with it and what you see especially with pastors that sin

36:37

I counseled one church Where they had an associate pastor who went to a young Younger ladies he was older than her went to a younger woman single woman's apartment to counsel her

36:52

She wanted to meet him at the church. He wanted to meet her at her house He made sexual advances

36:59

I Was counseling the the preaching pastor through this situation Here's the thing though What ended up happening is in his investigation?

37:08

He discovered He's resigning and he's moving on and what did he keep doing?

37:14

This guy just moved on to another church in another church in another church because the sin wasn't public It allows for a pastor to do that Exactly what

37:23

I believe anthony moore did Here is Matt chandler

37:30

And why I say matt chandler is responsible. I want you to listen very closely to what matt chandler says about the reason that they had to let

37:45

Dr. Moore go Now you have all this that you've now heard of what actually happened

37:50

And see if that fits what matt chandler says does this fit with first timothy chapter 5 verse 20 or did he

38:01

Violate scripture and sin and allow Dr. Moore to move on to other ministries maybe or other things

38:11

Without knowing all the details. This is what was said to the church in the presence of all

38:17

So I I'm saying this and I just because I want to be clear that you understand scripture

38:24

Gives us a clear Indication of what we have to do All right

38:30

So let's give a listen anthony. You you make sure that you can hear this Um, let me know if you can't yep

38:40

Last week we learned of a sin issue that has required the elders of the village church to make a sober and serious decision

38:49

Anthony moore our fort worth campus pastor has committed grievous immoral actions

38:54

Against another adult member that disqualify him as an elder and staff member based on the biblical text in first timothy

39:02

And titus chapter 1 he has been removed from his role as a campus pastor and as a village elder due to these actions

39:13

Anthony acknowledged his sin when meeting with the fort worth elders and the three lead pastors of the village church

39:19

And we want to make it abundantly clear that we believe that he is unfit For ministry at this time including speaking engagements at conferences or other churches

39:30

Our hope and desire is for him to walk in faithfulness and repentance We believe he is in need of deep

39:37

Healing and strong counseling for an extended period of time We do not plan on sharing any additional details about the nature of the sin issue at this time

39:46

Although we completely understand the desire to know more We believe we have a duty to protect the person who is directly sinned against in this situation as well as anthony's family

39:59

Your uh, so what you see there is what what was their concern the concern that they had

40:07

Was not for the church It was for the victim which

40:12

I understand and anthony's family But he shirked his responsibility to the church

40:19

Just as the church is commanded to have qualified pastors when a pastor sins

40:25

It is not something that you say. Well, we're just gonna to protect You know people we're not going to let you know what he did

40:33

You could have explained exactly what he did without naming names Yep And made it very clear that anthony

40:42

Had not this anthony by the way the one that's here anthony moore That you he could have matt chandler could have said anthony moore had videotaped another man

40:55

In the in a shower without that man's knowledge. It is a criminal offense

41:02

And for that reason he has been fired from village church he could have said that He could have then said because he recognized that people want to ask the questions he could have said

41:16

That they're doing this And don't try to figure out who the victim is

41:22

Because the whole thing he's saying is we're not going to give you the details to protect the victim You could have done the same thing because people still are going to ask the questions what happened but if they were clearer on this it would be very clear to any there's

41:36

This is the simple thing and this is why we titled this that matt chandler's failure is cedarville's problem if matt chandler did his biblical responsibility of being public about the sin

41:48

Or as scripture says rebuking him in the presence of all so that the rest may fear had matt chandler done that There'd be absolutely no way cedarville could have hired him for any position

42:04

Because the thing is is that that was a criminal act that was not reported by the pastor

42:11

Who knew about this matt chandler? He is a mandatory reporter and you say well, okay, but there was an investigation that went on Yes, there was an investigation with the sheriff

42:22

But matt chandler has a responsibility to report it to Different agencies that would be within texas that handle these type of crimes

42:33

And because of that It would have had that criminal offense because look anthony you and I have

42:41

We frank mollis who who has often spoke with striving fraternity people know he he is a a professional counselor to sexual

42:50

Addicts he deals with this day in and day out right Yep This is the thing that you end up seeing is that there is

42:59

Reporting that goes on and once that's reported There has to be different counseling with the state that goes on You get marked where you are you you have to show

43:11

Through counseling that you're no longer going to be a repeat offender of things before they're going to let you you know, you're on a list of a

43:18

Uh, and i'm trying to remember I forget the name of the the list now, but basically you're on a sexual a criminal list um but You know, dr.

43:31

Moore should have been on that Had the church done their their biblical and legal responsibility

43:40

When dr. White did that background check it wouldn't have come up clean it wouldn't have come up clear

43:48

So everyone there's people piling on to dr. White And yet he did his due diligence, but let me ask this question

43:57

Because I think there's a reason they're going after dr. White and not matt chandler But let us first see

44:03

I know of nothing else in that I know of in dr. White's past to show a pattern of him turning a blind eye to to sin or or things like that, however

44:15

Remember that verse we said that when it comes to the pastors and things that you you do these things

44:20

You you confront them in front of all and you don't prejudge and you don't show partiality

44:27

Well, let's look at some other things of the village church and matt chandler

44:34

Now i'm going to read this i'll put it on screen for you. I'll make it a little larger

44:40

For people like anthony who are older. Um I'm actually older than anthony.

44:46

He just looks older All right, this is from the village church

44:54

Where they've had to put out a statement we want to update you regarding uh regarding Our review of the village church's current care and discipline process specifically our desire was to repent we have

45:12

Sinned against those who have treated With who and have not treated with love and care as called to As shepherds, so what was their sin?

45:25

Well, here's their sin um what you have here Is that Basically two pastors matt chandler and josh patterson sat down with karen hinkley

45:40

Who wanted to annul her marriage? because she found out that her her uh you know that Jordan root who she was married to Uh was a former missionary

45:54

He was he was had involvement with pornography and things and what did they do?

45:59

They disciplined her out of they disciplined her and not him Uh, they showed preference to him and they had to put a public apology out

46:11

Okay, and this is dated, uh may 27th, but when was the hold up this this is

46:18

This is june 10th of 2015 Where he goes through the story as an apology

46:25

Okay That he's given To her because of trying to discipline her out so so right off the bat you see that they didn't hand they they have a

46:36

They have at least one a case where they haven't handled things. Well, I would argue you have two cases now

46:43

But unfortunately, that's not all We have this gentleman this is a gentleman who uh

46:50

Matt Tone town. I'm not sure how it's pronounced whether it's tone or ton

46:57

I'm gonna say I think it's tone uh, but basically Matt had uh sexually assaulted a girl in 2012

47:09

Um while he was I he I believe he was on staff At village church if not a pastor

47:18

Now the thing I want to point out here's something I want you to notice Okay, this is from religion news but Notice this comment that i've highlighted the village church updated

47:32

Updated page included a video from september. That's important. Remember the date from september church service

47:39

In which a pop a popular lead pastor matt chandler shared that the police were investigating a report and a

47:50

Report that an adult had allegedly sexually assaulted a minor in at a 2012 camp

47:59

The church had attended Okay, mount mount lebanon camp kids

48:04

You know kids camp earlier in the year the child had been report had reported and the alleged incident for the first time he said so in september

48:17

The village church website said that the police were investing in a an allegedly

48:23

Sexual assault on a minor. Why is that important? Because matt chandler Told his fellow southern baptists.

48:30

You can see that I have this highlighted Chandler told his fellow southern baptists that tone who is a family friend was fired from the church last october

48:40

So this is a month after the video that says the police were investigating a sexual assault

48:46

He was fired from the church last october because he had been repeatedly drunk in violation of church rules

48:54

The church was unaware at the time that tone had accused was accused of abuse.

49:00

He said The victim's parents claim that he had that he I that they identified tone

49:08

As the as the alleged abuser before he was fired according to a lawsuit

49:15

So what do you have there? What you end up seeing there is matt chandler In september is saying that the police are investigating a sexual assault

49:25

But in october he's saying well we we fired him back in october a month after the they knew about the investigation

49:32

For sexual assault a month after that. He's saying well we fired him for for being drunk too much

49:40

Okay Does that sound like he may have taken an easy road out? Does that sound like he did what first timothy five?

49:48

Commanded him to do if he knew about that set that the police were investigating tone for sexual abuse then tone

49:58

Should have been Publicly outed for exactly that Because if he's a pastor

50:07

Uh, that's what you do all right and so The and the girl

50:13

I think I want to try and look real quick. I think the girl was like 11 She was 11. Yeah, I I have it pulled up right now and there's a there's a lawsuit that came out about that last year so And so so here's so this is now three incidences

50:28

That we have with matt chandler and village church and what what is the pattern that we see?

50:34

The one pattern we see is that he is when when? It is clear sinful allegations

50:43

He's not going to the church and saying oh this is sin This is the specific sin.

50:49

No, he just he's in one case. He's saying drunkenness Well drunkenness and sexually assaulting an 11 year old are very different things

51:01

Drunkenness we're going to deal with that if if this guy was to go to another church and want to get into leadership at another church

51:09

The church is going to handle that different if they think it's just drunkenness if they think it's drunkenness, you know What they're going to do they're going to say okay.

51:15

We'll counsel you for for drinking. We're going to work We're going to watch you for drinking. But you know what they're going to let him be around the kids

51:22

Because they know nothing about the fact that he's sexually assaulted or at least allegedly sexually assaulted an 11 year old so now they'll people pastors will do this all the time because it's a it's easier just get rid of a problem it never

51:40

Gets rid of the problem What that does is pass on your problem to someone else's church in this case

51:47

Matt chandler passed on his problem of dr. Moore onto cedarville You know the part the part with all this that to me is really disturbing

51:58

Is it's it's not like this is all of a sudden this new issue that has popped up the united states, right?

52:04

this is an issue that we have criticized the catholic church for for Decades correct, especially especially the mormon church too and the mormon church, but it's much more well known to the catholic church, right?

52:16

I mean, it's in the mormon church. It's in the jehovah's witnesses, right? I mean, they've lost a lot of members because some of that stuff in recent times too, but the catholic church has been well known for for taking for taking um priests who have sexually assaulted kids

52:33

And and they have just quietly transferred him to another church Cross town different state whatever it is

52:40

And they've just recycled people over and over and over again and it leaves a trail destruction

52:46

In the background by that one person who's allowed to continue in that abuse cycle We see that also in in in the in regular public right, you know,

52:57

I have a friend who was abused in when she was a a child and It by an uncle and nobody in the family believed it except for her own mother and then what happens years later turns out that he uh

53:10

He had abused many of her other cousins over the years after she and her mom were cast out of the family so to speak

53:17

Um, he left a trail of many other cousins that were also sexually abused could have been stopped Way back in the beginning

53:23

But but it goes to show if you don't stop this stuff um The you you allow the trail to continue and that's that to me is what the the hardest part about all this is is that Let's say worst case scenario.

53:38

We don't know anything yet But let's say that that anthony moorer went to cedarville and did the same thing there

53:46

With students and then it comes out of over over the long haul. This is matt chandler's problem

53:52

This is this is them not stopping this When they could have doing exactly what you said there, which is first timothy five

54:00

Being able to being able to bring this out publicly um, and it doesn't mean that somebody you know,

54:06

I think maybe we should talk about restoration andrew because There is there is one thing and we talk about restoration is restoration is unto the lord right in repentance

54:17

But it doesn't mean that you restore somebody into a position again where they could fall into the same type of sin and so And so I don't know if you want to speak to that at all here

54:30

So, I mean because here's here's the thing. We we should be people who are as christians

54:35

We're looking for restoration. We're looking to to have people that are going to uh

54:43

You know That we would follow a process of matthew 18 of reconciliation and I think one of the things that um,

54:53

You know, let me just put this up on screen i'll i'll put this in the in the notes But we have on at at striving fraternity

55:01

We have a process of reconciliation chart. And if if you can see on screen, it's a flow chart.

55:06

Why? Because this is not matthew 18. This is side one. Matthew 18 is on the back This is all the steps you should do to write when reconciling before you get to matthew 18

55:17

But because reconciliation is extremely important for the christian In fact matthew chapter 5 would say that if you know you your brother has something against you

55:28

You should leave your offering and go and reconcile with him Matthew 18 would say if if your brother sins against you you would go to him

55:35

So so if you know your brother has son against you or if you have son against your brother You should be going to reconcile we should of all people be people seeking reconciliation

55:46

Scripture is clear that we're to restore a sinning brother. We we have it in first thessalonians we'll have it that if your brother sins you that those who are who are um should you know bear one of their sins that if someone is is

56:01

Uh weakened and sinned they they're we others should come alongside them. Now. The issue is we don't neglect the sin though The sin is there and should be mentioned

56:11

It's it's not that we ignore it It has to be out in the open to deal with And this is the issue because what you we we have to be doing in this is we have to be looking to go through a process of You cannot reconcile with someone if you're if one or both parties don't agree on the issue in other words if Dr.

56:37

Moore was saying That uh You know, he didn't do this

56:45

Well, it would be a different process of reconciliation Because because then now by the way, the victim has met with dr.

56:52

Moore at least two times after dr Moore was fired from village church But as far as I understand, there's no reconciliation.

57:00

That's that has happened yet and so You know

57:06

Uh, so i'm just looking there's a question in here from drew Can you speak to the necessity of pastors to see the process of reconciliation through and not just make a plan?

57:18

And not fulfill it and that's the problem that I think many people have Is you know you have people who

57:28

Are you have pastors that they they'll maybe they make a plan look Thomas white made a plan for dr.

57:34

Moore The thing is he was following it through Uh, he kept up on that to make sure it was followed through Now as as stephen wolf is saying here that that anthony moore was apologetic and asking forgiveness

57:49

That's a totally different situation if anthony moore Was refusing to admit to what he did wrong

57:57

Or not seeing it as wrong making excuses for it. You would handle that very differently if if anthony moore was

58:06

Came to dr. White and said, can you hire me? I didn't do the things they claim I did That would be very different Than a case where he said look i'm wrong.

58:17

This is what I did I'll go through any steps you want a reconciliation. I'll do that. He he seemed repentant.

58:24

He seemed apologetic He seemed asking for forgiveness um So these are things you would you would need to see

58:33

But if you have two people that are you know, one is saying well you sinned against me and the other person's like that's not a sin

58:39

Okay You can't have reconciliation there So let me ask you this andrew, you know from a pastoral perspective

58:47

Did matt chandler? And his staff not only have a responsibility to to make public the issue

58:56

But did they also have a responsibility for a plan of reconciliation within the church?

59:02

Rather than just firing him and tossing him out to the window, right? I mean, this isn't this is a

59:09

Well, this is a bigger issue anthony and i'll tell you why I think it's a bigger issue because it is the failure of the way we do

59:16

We hire pastors Okay The way we hire pastors is unbiblical

59:23

All right, the way you see pastors hired you see first timothy you see titus and what do you have? They're chosen from within the church

59:30

Everyone knows their character So when you we do this thing where you you go outside the church

59:37

And you get a guy that comes in for a week You do some homework on him and try to figure him out, but any guy can fake it to the church for a week

59:44

You know weeks or yeah. Yeah, I mean you can you can hide the things

59:51

But it's not someone that you've lived with so you don't really know him You don't know his character and so much of the qualifications require character

59:59

And and so many churches have problems with pastors because they don't know the character of a man You know,

01:00:05

I guess i'm not going to be taking over for macarthur when he retires like right? No, I I guess not

01:00:11

I think there's some others there at that church that'll probably get it You know what, you know that when

01:00:18

I was pastor at chinese american bible church I was I was in attendance for a year as someone just in attendance, even though I was

01:00:26

I was You know preaching once in a while and I was teaching the sunday school Then when it became time to make me a pastor

01:00:34

They literally the way it was the chairman of the deacons just said Uh in two weeks, we're having a business meeting

01:00:40

Uh, one of the things we'll be voting on is the budget and we'll be voting andrew as pastor That was it.

01:00:45

There was no q a none of that was even needed. Why? They knew me To the point where when they had their meeting my family and I went out to get a meal

01:00:55

And we come back and no one even told us how the vote was I had to finally go up to the chairman of the deacon Say what was the result?

01:01:01

And he was like, oh, yeah, it was unanimous. You're you're the pastor and it was just because it was just Not a big deal because I was already there

01:01:11

Right. That is a very big difference in the way we do things and and because with the way we do it

01:01:16

We bring a guy in and he comes into the church not as a member really he comes in as a pastor

01:01:23

And so what happens when he sins they just fire him he leaves That again,

01:01:29

I think if you have a pastor who sinned I think That he has to stay in that church for reconciliation and accountability because they know the sin

01:01:39

So not only is it made public now, everyone knows it. Yes. There is a shame factor

01:01:45

Sorry, but when you when you're a pastor and you repetitively say this is not a one -time sin

01:01:50

Remember what the text said in first in first timothy, okay for those who persist in sin

01:01:59

That's the difference the persistence in sin All right If you have someone who's persisting in sin as a pastor, yes, there be should be shame

01:02:09

That's the reason you rebuke them in front of all so that all will fear Okay This is a failure of the church.

01:02:17

So I think that yes Matt chandler and village church should have

01:02:24

Kept him in that church For accountability guess what would happen if they if they had done that anthony

01:02:31

He wouldn't be able to go to cedarville or any other church Yep See, there's nothing that stopped anthony moore

01:02:40

From going on to some other church that wasn't maybe known a village church

01:02:46

Give some excuse that he left in a bad way. I've i've had this happen. I mean look We we had a

01:02:51

I had a pastor who I was on on a pulpit committee. We brought a guy in This is what really got me to realize the problems with with the way we we hire pastors

01:03:00

We had a guy who came in and everything looked good. Everything was clean. It got glowing reviews

01:03:06

And when he got there, this was he was pride filled arrogant

01:03:12

He's just very with a self Agenda that you know, he didn't care for he just wasn't a shepherd

01:03:19

And it was it was opposite of everything that we saw in these in these reviews And I remember calling that church up And I said hey,

01:03:28

I talked to the chairman of the elders and I said, you know, we got so -and -so here and you know We got these glowing reviews

01:03:35

But now i'm looking at this guy and he's not matching the reviews and literally this is what I heard from the chairman of the elders

01:03:41

Yeah, we're sorry we had to do that to you we couldn't get rid of him Every time we told the truth in a review they no one would hire him

01:03:51

And I would I was shocked I was like well you had a responsibility To call him out on his sin, which is what

01:03:56

I ended up doing. But you needed to to confront him on his sin And fire him not let him go on to another church to damage another church.

01:04:05

And by the way He he ended up getting rid of me And I ended up leaving that church

01:04:11

But guess what happened within six years that the church ended up realizing this guy has a problem

01:04:16

That other leaders in the church started confronting him. And what does he do before they could vote him out?

01:04:21

He runs away. He leaves he resigns effective immediately and goes starts another church in in the neighborhood

01:04:28

Right, so he's dead and that church had problems all because now you have three churches affected because one group of elders

01:04:36

Didn't follow matthew Sorry, first timothy chapter five had they done that and in this case had matt chandler and village church done that Cedarville wouldn't have a problem today yeah, you know here here's something interesting and so um, it's not a complete parallel, but it's it's it's pretty darn close, which is

01:04:58

So for those you don't know I owned a dental practice up until 18 months ago for like 16 years or something

01:05:04

He judges you by your teeth, yeah, I do for Going for a long time early whites and and they're straightened out now.

01:05:12

Oh, yeah me for doing that. It looks nice Make sure you bring a hammer to my teeth to Show that picture one of these days.

01:05:24

No, we do not Gagging you with that, uh impression material. That was hilarious that day

01:05:30

You can't because justin peters was in the background Yeah That was a great day in my office,

01:05:41

I almost choked to death and you thought I was funny great great But uh, so, you know in in for for me who has been in charge of hiring people for years

01:05:54

And bring him to the office There there is actually legal responsibilities that I have to make phone calls to the previous employer

01:06:02

And in our case my wife did that for me who acted as office manager, but she'd make phone calls and get reference checks because If you would hire somebody who would end up sexually abusing somebody in your chair in your dental chair

01:06:17

And then it was found out that this person did it at a previous office and they were fired for it

01:06:22

And you didn't make those reference calls and find out you could be held liable for that Furthermore if the person who gave the reference didn't disclose it they could be sued for that as well

01:06:34

I mean there there's legal precedence in this stuff. And so I bring this up because imagine if Let's again

01:06:42

Let's let's imagine worst case scenario. I'm not even going to use anthony moore in this but let's say you have somebody who actually

01:06:47

Molested children in a church as a pastor. They sweep it under the rug They fire him quietly and he ends up getting hired by another church

01:06:56

Who does a reference check? Let's say that reference check was very similar to what we think happened with village church here and anthony moore where they hid

01:07:05

A lot of the stuff he goes on and sexually molests more people at a new church And then they start to make the connections that this would have been that this could have been prevented

01:07:16

Had the first church actually brought this out to light and actually provided a proper reference

01:07:23

Wait a minute. You just described the sbc Oh Unfortunately, yeah andler svc, huh?

01:07:31

Chandler sbc well, and and this is the problem right? I mean we we have evidence that that village church

01:07:38

See at least seemed to not be forthright In term so anthony moore if if we believe and we have no reason to doubt it right now

01:07:48

But if we believe everything thomas white says That means that anthony moore lied to his friends about what actually transpired and who is counselor.

01:07:56

Dr Jason lee and he did And village church did on multiple occasions, right?

01:08:02

Because thomas white said he had multiple phone calls with them before hiring him and after hiring him in talking about the progress

01:08:10

No, no Chandler has supposedly stated that he said That dr.

01:08:17

Anthony moore is not Qualified for any type of ministry However, he wasn't being hired for ministry as we talked.

01:08:26

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't for me He was hired as an administrator And if the reconciliation process went through he may have been able to be hired as a professor

01:08:38

So and that's really clear Let me I want to share some things that came out about this because the guy who broke the story

01:08:44

It is kind of interesting In The way, this is even the way this is worded

01:08:50

I'll send you before you say this. Let me just read this to so we finish up this here Is it this is the transcript anybody can go to to the same video that you posted of matt chandler's two minute video

01:09:01

There's a transcript posted on there and i'm just reading this from the 126 mark on just for for a couple sentences and it says that um

01:09:11

We want to make it abundantly clear that we believe that he is unfit for ministry at this time including speaking engagements at conferences or other churches

01:09:22

And our hope and desire is for him to walk in faithfulness and repentance We believe he is in need of deep healing and strong counseling for an extended period of time

01:09:32

Now if you just take what matt chandler said there in this video Dated back in january 2017 two weeks after anthony moore was fired

01:09:41

That seems to be very consistent with what thomas white actually did

01:09:48

Is he brought him in not in a ministry position he brought him in Not to give speaking engagements at conferences not not for other churches.

01:09:57

He brought him in for reconciliation here not in a ministry type position and uh, and so I'm seeing consistency among what thomas white has said

01:10:10

And what we are seeing out there I i'm going to point out one more thing before you kind of jump ship now to the next to the next step of this

01:10:18

The video that you pulled up andrew is dated january Uh 21st,

01:10:26

I think um If i'm not mistaken january 22nd 2017.

01:10:32

Yeah. Okay When was this posted on youtube? Did you check that date?

01:10:37

Yeah, april 15th of 2020 2020 now, okay. I don't understand something here but Hold on this this was let's let's be clear with it though This is was posted by a guy who?

01:10:52

I think he said he went back and clipped it. So this isn't on village church's website Just to be fair it's the guy who's writing the stories about it

01:11:02

I I don't know. I think he might have gotten this from village church way back when

01:11:09

But it didn't come to light till this clip didn't come to light till after until afterwards

01:11:14

And and and this I think is the perfect lead into what you're getting into Right now is that this was just brought out

01:11:22

Yeah, and This is what steve wolf is saying in in the comments. Yes This is what bothers me about chandler's handling of this

01:11:30

It seems deceitful to not let the next church know what happened I know it's pretty much the point of the show tonight

01:11:37

But it really doesn't make chandler and village church look good at all. Now. Here's the thing I want to point out

01:11:43

Okay That village church as I showed earlier has a history of this

01:11:51

So remember I said you got thomas white who has a history of integrity Village church who has a history of mishandling these things

01:11:59

And not doing the biblical command Just out of the gate. Who am I going to trust without having any information?

01:12:07

Well, i'm going to believe cedarville and dr. Thomas white Now could I be wrong?

01:12:12

I could be but i'm going to wait until an investigation But I think what you see is you see people that want to And i'm going to show that there's a reason that they they want to harm cedarville

01:12:26

I think there's an agenda behind this. I think there's a reason They won't go after matt chandler and they will cedarville

01:12:32

So and let's be clear right even if even if as you just said, we don't know everything

01:12:38

Let's assume even if thomas white knew more than what is being said right now

01:12:43

Matt chandler is still in the wrong. He's still in the wrong for not saying something ahead of time

01:12:50

There never would have been opportunity for him to be hired at cedarville had this stuff been made public the way it was supposed to Had matt chandler done what he had a biblical responsibility to do

01:13:01

Then this wouldn't have happened at cedarville. Okay, but here's the thing with this not only that but The you know, the the issue is is more was hired for You know an administrative role

01:13:17

Okay, so the guy who who broke this and who put up That video you were just referring to it.

01:13:24

It's this guy todd. Todd, and I don't know if i'm going to pronounce this will well helm Yeah, okay.

01:13:30

I want you to just look at the title. He's a he's a guest blogger here on on this site because they they ended up saying that um,

01:13:39

You know that he's of that art the man that he's a guest blogger here, but look at the title are some christian colleges like cedarville university becoming a dumping ground for fallen pastors

01:13:54

Theologians like anthony moore guest post by todd willhelm now You look at that title

01:14:00

Just at the title This title is poisoning the well. It's a logical fallacy.

01:14:06

What is he doing just in the title? He is he is giving an argument how many

01:14:12

Fallen pastors theologians Has thomas white supposedly hired one

01:14:20

That's the count so far Yeah, when you say has it become a dumping ground?

01:14:26

How is it a dumping ground? When there's only one but before we look into what this guy has said and why

01:14:35

I think why do I think? Matt chandler's being given a pass

01:14:41

Is for this reason let us take a look at who Todd is this is his own website now

01:14:48

This is what he says about himself Now, let me just read what he says. I've highlighted it for you

01:14:54

I've always been one to fight for justice to take up the cause of the little man

01:15:01

And confront the abuses of the rich and powerful anthony their son you and I address all the time

01:15:09

Uh, does this fit into a definition of something that you and I address? Yeah, it seems to be a social justice warrior

01:15:18

Correct. This is the exact language that you get from social justice warriors that they're they're they're about justice for the little man

01:15:26

The the the abused person which it's it is justice to stand up for the person who is a true victim, but notice

01:15:34

And look, by the way, this language is literally right out of communist manifesto Karl marx, but notice it's not it's he's not for justice of the the wronged

01:15:45

No The little man against the rich and powerful in what he has written He is assuming that if you are rich and powerful, you're automatically wrong.

01:15:55

Yeah, that's marxist philosophy Yes, bottom line marxism. Okay, but maybe maybe

01:16:02

We're just guessing Oh, but wait, let's let's look. Oh, uh, where's the article he wrote?

01:16:09

Here we go. So he wrote an article This is in 2014 So this is before Thomas white was at cedarville

01:16:19

Okay So because I believe thomas got there in 2015 So, what do you see cedarville?

01:16:29

Paige patterson al muller tough times for female professors That's the article

01:16:37

Now look at the lines. I i'm going to highlight some things and read these things to see what This is the guy who's breaking the story of cedarville and everyone's taking what this guy's saying

01:16:46

And just so you can see here's all the articles. He is he has written on cedarville

01:16:54

Uh, except for that one that I showed you Um, so this is if we if we go through these uh, we have

01:17:04

Uh, one two, three, four five six seven eight nine ten articles

01:17:14

On cedarville with one of them being why thomas white should resign an open letter to thomas white

01:17:20

And so he starts a petition to get rid of thomas white Right, he's got this open letter, but he had the issue with with cedarville long before as as we end up seeing here

01:17:31

And i'm going to I want to read some some parts of this um for us to to see all right, so this this guy

01:17:41

Todd willhelm Writes for his his blog is called the the wartburg watch

01:17:47

So this says quote the wartburg watch Commit community extends its sympathies to female pastors who have been

01:17:57

Mistreated solely due to their gender at christian colleges and universities and seminaries now

01:18:05

That's right there sounds like he's Putting some stuff in here that sounds an awful lot like social justice that it's just because they're a female

01:18:15

Now he makes arguments here with al moeller about conception and and Adoption, he basically makes a case that these guys limit their families

01:18:26

Al moeller and page patterson. They don't have big families like the duggars duggars are also wrong.

01:18:31

They should be adopting people but Here's where he gets into cedarville. Cedarville is is experiencing an exodus of female faculty

01:18:42

And so He he says no no, I want you to notice this He says tww that's for the the wartburg watch has been contacted by several

01:18:51

On several occasions through the years by anonymous female employees at cedarville

01:18:58

Why anonymous? Well, he's he gives some reasons for it, but You know going into the history, but the thing is that If they're anonymous, do we know that they actually existed?

01:19:10

No Okay We don't know that They could he could be making it up Do I think he is?

01:19:20

I don't know but Listen, there's a thing about discernment bloggers discernment bloggers.

01:19:26

Typically guys that do discernment blogging have a pattern They start off typically the guys that that start off they they break some big story

01:19:33

And everyone checks that out and then they got to keep that going They'll break another story another story and then they got to keep that that pattern going.

01:19:43

So what do they start doing? They start cutting corners They start misrepresenting people and a lot of times these guys just outright lie and they justify it because they say well

01:19:51

It's okay because you know This guy is in the wrong And you'll find that a lot of those discernment bloggers never attend a church

01:19:59

Because no church agrees with them Um, and I don't know where this guy's at I don't know if he's at a church or not

01:20:05

But but I want you to I want to skip down to this and see um You know, so he says suddenly women start resigning and can't say anything because they sign confidentiality agreements

01:20:17

I do not blame these women for signing these agreements in the business world severance payments are often tied to confidentiality

01:20:25

Uh in in other words, they may need that income to support their families. So in other words

01:20:31

He's reading into the key what he's doing here is leading his audience

01:20:37

He's he's he's not giving actual fact. He's leading them into believing something that He's just assuming something and then gives some personal opinion, but the fact is

01:20:51

That they're he has he doesn't prove that they're actually leaving because their gender

01:20:57

That they're being forced to leave Okay So he ends up saying the university the cedarville has uh says that has plenty of women in each department

01:21:08

Okay, so I guess this was when when dr. White first got there because it says white said that nothing has changed

01:21:13

So I think that uh as women in departments, so here's the thing if this was when white was here

01:21:20

Then there may be a different reason Why they were leaving Because of what we said in the beginning of the program

01:21:28

Dr. White was giving them contracts and if the if these women were social justice warriors

01:21:35

You know, they were egalitarians and not complementarians They wouldn't have been able to sign the the doctrinal statement and they would have left and they might have had an axe to grind

01:21:44

They come to a blogger like this Now are they wrong? Well, if you're if you're hired by a christian university and you don't agree with its doctrinal statement

01:21:54

You shouldn't be there You should have the integrity not to be there So one of the things that You know, he goes on to With some stuff, but here's where I wanted to to focus in notice what he says here

01:22:09

Women teaching the bible to men is quote unbiblical unquote in university settings as well question mark

01:22:18

And that's a question that he's asking and then this is what he says the the blogger I find this unsettling

01:22:25

Many of the complementarians now stop there if he was a complementarian He would say many comp many

01:22:33

Complementarians or many of us complementarians. He wouldn't have put them as an outside group

01:22:38

Leads me to believe that he's egalitarian That he's again More evidence that he's probably a social justice warrior many complementarians claim

01:22:48

That the only place a woman cannot teach is within the local church. Don't believe them It appears that they will also extend this teaching far beyond the local church and seminaries

01:22:59

In and into academia who knows how much further it will extend Now he goes on to talk about some stuff with pate patterson.

01:23:07

I find this kind of interesting though at the end his conclusion He had something about al muller says al muller southern baptist seminary also has

01:23:17

Also has some concerning statistics With women faculty, uh, he says there's 95 men and five women now as of today anthony how

01:23:26

How many what's the men to women ratio at cedarville? Well, there's more female students.

01:23:33

I'll say that first than male, but uh male 62 percent and female 37 almost 38 percent

01:23:41

Okay for the ratio Now, I don't know if that's outside of the realm of a secular college

01:23:48

I mean it wouldn't it probably wouldn't have been when at my university at my alma mater um excuse me, but what you end up seeing is

01:23:59

Here's what he says to sum this up and i'm pointing this out because I want to point out that I believe personally that maybe

01:24:07

This blogger who everyone's using To go after dr. White and and and poison the well before the investigation

01:24:16

They're assuming in all these articles the assumption is that village church says they

01:24:22

Said gave all the information. They're saying they gave all the information And so the assumption is village church wouldn't lie.

01:24:29

It must be thomas white who's lying However, we know that village church Has a history of not naming the sin when a pastor sins

01:24:40

Okay violation of scripture We know that they take the easy path We know that they've also disciplined someone who was in the who was the one being wronged

01:24:48

They they disciplined a victim and had to apologize for it and they at least admitted it was sin

01:24:53

But look at what this guy this blogger that everyone's referring to has said To sum up this article that he has on the on the academics with female professors

01:25:05

Summing it up The authoritarian Gender -driven crowd appears to be making a full court press to get women out of christian academia however

01:25:17

It was sure nice of them to be able to limit the size of their families

01:25:23

So their wives could lead conferences and seminary programs designed to make sure women have lots of children and stay at home

01:25:30

No, that's what the beginning part of the article was talking about conception and adoption and things like that Now notice what he's doing

01:25:38

You could read the article. You're not going to see anywhere where al moeller or paige patterson are saying that the reason that they

01:25:45

Didn't have a large family was so that their wives could um speak at conferences or or lead seminary programs so Just for the record that is a logical fallacy

01:26:00

Okay, he's he's coming to a conclusion with absolutely no support And and what the whole thing what you end up seeing is he he is he poisons the well

01:26:10

And he's doing it throughout this the whole article is this way Okay. Now he does say Please understand deb and I Uh did stay at home with our children

01:26:19

I don't know what he does for a living that you know, he could not actually have to work While 18 years his kids were being raised that he could just stay at home.

01:26:28

Um Just saying but but do you notice how he described the authoritarian gender driven crowd

01:26:34

This does not sound like a complementarian This sounds like an egalitarian. In fact, this sounds like a social justice warrior.

01:26:42

Now, why do I bring this up? I bring this up for this reason. He's calling for dr.

01:26:48

White's Removal What do we know about matt chandler?

01:26:54

Well matt chandler's woke In other words matt chandler is now becoming a social justice warrior.

01:27:01

Could it be that he Is not going after matt chandler for matt chandler's failure

01:27:08

Because he's more interested in getting thomas white who's not woke A conservative who has the nerve to to to take liberal professors and say you can leave if you want to You know

01:27:21

Those those female pastors if they were egalitarians and they left because they couldn't sign the doctrinal statement.

01:27:27

They got two years salary They got to work for one year if they found a job in that year.

01:27:33

Guess what? They got a full year's salary bonus Because they went to some other if they're making 80,

01:27:41

I think the average college professor now, this is a christian college So probably doesn't make the average college professor makes about a hundred thousand dollars

01:27:47

Christian college, maybe it's 60 But okay, would you think it was a good thing to go to another university and be able to make a 60 grand?

01:27:56

That'd be nice I know, you know, I know plenty of people that would love to be able to to you know

01:28:01

Leave their job and get a year's salary be a nice thing for free. Yeah, you'd like that right anthea

01:28:07

Wait, you you fired yourself and sold your business In that order, yeah

01:28:12

Yeah This just spawned on me, yeah, did you fire your wife as well so, you know

01:28:26

When uh when I had the sit -down meeting with the staff to let them know that we had sold the business

01:28:32

I actually made the joke that I uh fired julie And then

01:28:37

I said That I sold the business and I got this nasty glare from julie standing up there

01:28:45

Yeah, I That would be good for a video

01:28:52

And the reason i'm picking this up is you know, this guy that's doing this and writing these things This has now been picked up by christianity today and it's getting a lot of attention

01:29:01

But what's what do you have? You have it all coming from one side From a potential social justice warrior that is that would be after thomas white because there's there's very few

01:29:14

Universities left. Look you you look at the universities. I I know of two that I could recommend cedarville has been number one and masters

01:29:21

University is number two. Now if you're going for a business degree masters would probably be better Because they're more business degree oriented if you're going into the sciences

01:29:32

Cedarville is going to be better there. I mean masters just doesn't have much in the in the way The science is like cedarville does and but That's about it.

01:29:40

And look they tried getting rid of macarthur. What happened with macarthur? Macarthur they they tried saying oh like as soon as if you remember anthony when

01:29:47

When we came out with the statement of social justice in the gospel We waited for macarthur to sign that when macarthur signed that that's when when it was released when he

01:29:56

When we got all the the edits and he he signed it And what was the first thing that happened?

01:30:01

You had a whole bunch of people that tried to go after masters seminary and masters university and they tried saying

01:30:06

Oh his son does does contract work for the school? it's nepotism and they actually did enough where they actually got it that the uh the accreditation

01:30:18

You know organization removed the accreditation for masters seminary and masters university

01:30:24

Okay And they were trying so what ended up happening macarthur? Left he he stepped down from that role past like he's he's old enough.

01:30:33

He's he's 80 You know pass it on to someone else and they and and it was reinstated

01:30:38

Okay, so they went after masters university who did it social justice warriors.

01:30:43

What do we have here? I think you have social justice warriors. They're not going to go after matt chandler for his failings

01:30:49

No, they're going to go after dr White because he stands firm on the scripture

01:30:55

That's what I think you have happening. Now you say well, what about liberty university? Let me throw that in the mix now.

01:31:01

I I really I did not sway either of my kids when they were looking at their schools Uh, we helped them but we told them and the decision was theirs my daughter looked and she came down to liberty and cedarville and Because she's her degree is molecular biochemistry

01:31:17

It's not exactly a thing that was a strong we're going to be strong at masters So she ended up choosing cedarville.

01:31:24

Why she said she could go to Liberty to evangelize because they accept non

01:31:30

Believers in the university. She said I can go to liberty and evangelize or I can go to cedarville and be discipled

01:31:35

She said i'm i'm right out of college. I'm high school. I'm right out of of your house and your teaching

01:31:41

I really wanted to to I want to go somewhere where i'm going to be discipled to live for christ on my own

01:31:47

Wait, did you just did you catch yourself? She came out of your house from your teaching and therefore she could go to a good school.

01:31:54

Well, no Meaning that she was you know, her father was a pat was the pastor of the church so Being being that she was she just grew up in a pastor's home and so You know, she came out of that.

01:32:09

She wanted to she wanted to be discipled She wanted to be going to where she was going to be taught Christian not going to evangelize

01:32:16

Okay Afterwards i've actually had communications with jerry faldwell jr.

01:32:22

I'm not going to release the emails. Um Because I just don't think there's any benefit to it

01:32:29

But he and I had a very long email exchange over the issue of the fact that jerry faldwell's liberty university hired a homosexual

01:32:39

They were very proud of that they put it in the school paper in the school paper They were bragging that they hired this new york uh theater drama, uh

01:32:51

Guy, I forget the full title of it But he's a guy that does calligraphy or you know where he did this setup where he'll show people how to dance and how

01:33:00

To do the drama and he was working with them on mary poppins And when it came out that people said wait a minute this guy is a known homosexual

01:33:10

What did jerry faldwell do he went? Oh, well, we didn't hire him. Oh, it was it was a contractor He was just a contract and what jerry faldwell actually told me this is no different than hiring the guys that That screw in the light bulbs, you know, we don't check all their backgrounds.

01:33:23

I said yes, but here's the difference The guy screwing the light bulbs Is not putting his hands on students saying no stand over here

01:33:31

Not directing students not in a position of leadership He's a janitor who screws on the light bulb.

01:33:37

No one's looking at him as a leader No one's going to be meeting with that person alone possibly

01:33:43

There's a big difference there. Did liberty demand jerry faldwell resign?

01:33:49

Oh, no Social justice warriors all got behind him. So what do you see you see social justice warriors will defend

01:33:56

You know someone who's hiring homosexuals you have that you see that they're not going to call out matt chandler

01:34:04

And so what do you see here? Well, when you have someone who is a complimentarian Who is strong against stands up against social justice who is strong on standing for the bible?

01:34:13

What what is it we see? Well, we see a guy who's a social justice warrior probably And he's going to write a bunch of blog articles and everyone's taking those blog articles

01:34:24

And they're signing petitions because this guy's put a petition out and what does he do he links to all these

01:34:29

Different blog articles he's written and then other people are looking at these blogger articles and they're looking just at the information

01:34:35

He says and he says oh we have emails If a guy says he has emails, but doesn't give you the emails

01:34:43

Don't believe him If if Here and then we have this mark spence pops in and goes that's quite a library of books you have behind you andrew

01:34:55

Yeah, thanks mark I I my books are practicing social distancing until I can move to pennsylvania Which this quarantine is not helping and our governor saying no, we're not going to release things until june 7th

01:35:06

You know, so so i'm actually going to be i'm in a weird position anthony I'm going to be in a position where my church in pennsylvania

01:35:14

Is going to open we think you know mid may Right in a couple of weeks we may open but my governor is going to say that it's not essential

01:35:24

So technically would I be breaking the law driving to church in another state where my church is open so that I could preach?

01:35:33

Yeah, well, yes i'll take my chances because i'm not you know, once we open church, uh, i'll be at that pulpit

01:35:39

We're not going to do a zoom meeting or something like that Uh into the church everyone else

01:35:44

I we won't do like matt chandler does every week is zooming him into other satellite churches

01:35:52

I'll tell you what, you know our church we finally opened this past sunday to a limited Limited crowd and then we went full -blown last night for uh, wednesday bible study and full -blown this coming sunday

01:36:04

You know for our grand reopening or whatever you call it from coronavirus And uh, i'll tell you man the seven weeks that that we were on zoom meetings, it's just not the same it's nowhere close

01:36:15

To what uh to what true church is supposed to be about? Yeah, we've gotten together, you know, some of the folks from the church some of the leaders from the church less than 10 you know, but uh, you know, we we've been able to at least meet and um

01:36:30

Um, you know drew says look look at liberty and ergin canner issue when they covered that up Um, he says he's an alumni from from liberty.

01:36:41

Uh, please don't hold it against me No, we don't hold it against you drew but but you see the dilemma there Why why do they let certain people off the hook?

01:36:49

Why I mean you could look at this pattern whether in here in politics we're talking about biden versus you know versus um,

01:36:56

Uh, brett kavanaugh brett kavanaugh who actually was innocent and they knew it But they wanted to go after him anyway, because social justice warriors.

01:37:05

He's not on the right side So here here's the thing my position Until proven.

01:37:11

Otherwise, I believe that thomas white is in the right Sorry, I rhymed and didn't plan it but And maybe that should be our our cry until proven otherwise

01:37:23

White is in the right white history. Oh, that doesn't sound good either Yeah, okay.

01:37:29

Yeah Warriors are really gonna get upset Yeah, so so that's true didn't james white get accused of racism because of his last name

01:37:40

I think But but so what do you end up seeing with this? What you end up seeing is that we need to stand up for truth

01:37:47

And and not let a bunch of bloggers who are social justice warriors probably to destroy his character before the investigation even begins

01:37:58

Okay You know, this is the thing that we have to do Is we we need to make sure that we're standing up for truth

01:38:07

All right and I I and anything more I know we have a couple guys there was someone matthew who was in much earlier was gonna

01:38:15

Try to bring him in he dropped. I don't know what he what um, what his questions were, uh, but I I uh we do have some others if you guys who are in the backstage if you have questions just put it into the private chat so That I know what what uh, you guys want to talk about but vincent isn't backstage and one of the things he brought up earlier

01:38:33

Was he made a comment we were talking about the pastors the way we're hiring pastors And so the way these pastors behave, you know, he made the comment that these are hurlings and not

01:38:44

Shepherds in other words, they're they're hired hired For the job and they're not really doing and so um, they're not true shepherds in it in that sense, uh, but but uh

01:38:56

I guess melissa likes it. She says white is right. That doesn't sound right either Social justice lawyers aren't gonna like that one either.

01:39:03

Um, you know, we better do our ken ham thing really quick I'm, not white

01:39:10

African americans aren't black. We're all just shades of brown Yes, sure.

01:39:16

We get that right one blood one race. Yeah, mark. Spence is mark. Spence is saying someone mute andrew

01:39:22

I would agree We gotta get hey, mr. Spence, why don't you get in here?

01:39:28

liven this up Um, we we could talk about some stuff going on with with you guys there living waters I should say

01:39:34

Now I guess now would be a good time to say that um, if you do go to living waters Their school of biblical academy is on sale and I don't think

01:39:43

I think it's only for like 10 more days So we do have a discount code that you can get where uh, you get half off if you put sfe as the discount code um, you get a

01:39:56

Discount and with that, uh, you not only get it you get it half off And I I think you may get an ebook.

01:40:03

I can't remember but um But so go go to living waters dot com go to the store check out, um, the uh

01:40:13

School biblical evangelism. Oh, he says i'm actually on the way to the beach with my family That's right because he lives in a state where they've opened the beaches

01:40:22

Did you open them in california? I thought they busted barriers to go onto the beaches No, they so I think it's la did that and now everyone's now now what's happening is even more people are going down to san diego

01:40:33

To go to the beach Now you have more people because they limited them But so if you want to be the i'll tell you the school of biblical evangelism

01:40:41

And I think mark wrote most of that book if not all of it. You get a book that's like yo thick uh, and They have it is more than just evangelism.

01:40:51

Don't be fooled by the title It goes into evangelism. It goes into discipleship. It goes into theology.

01:40:57

It goes into world religions It is really covers a wealth of topics it is on sale from 150 for 75

01:41:04

It's a great deal Just put in sfe when you put in the discount code

01:41:10

Anthony, it looks like you pulled the book out off the shelf and it looked like it might have been a jay lewis book Jay lucas.

01:41:15

Yeah I know there's people who have asked i've had a lot of feedback almost all of it really good feedback, but Um when

01:41:23

I did my facebook live video last week and then followed it up a couple days later

01:41:29

Um with with a part two I talked about uh, you know for for those of you who know me, you know

01:41:34

That I love teaching on precept apologetics at a lay level, you know, andrew does too Um, we enjoy because I think the way that we teach it allows people to actually learn how to use precept and use it properly

01:41:46

Um, you know versus a lot of the cat analyzing too What's that while evangelizing while evangelizing?

01:41:53

Yeah rather than just using catchphrases, but actually how you think through precept and uh

01:41:59

And jay lucas is a guy I learned I mean, obviously I learned a lot from andrew as well over the years But jay lucas has some wonderful books and this book called the rights fight

01:42:08

Um walks through and I know andrew you love this book too really walks through where rights come from I read that book

01:42:16

Kind of in a single setting Single setting because uh jay gave it to me

01:42:22

I was on I was on my flight from ohio back to jersey Started it on the plane

01:42:28

And finished most of it in flight I'm a quick read I back then

01:42:33

I was a very quick read now slowed up as I got older But I I read most of it on the plane got home

01:42:40

And I got home late that night it was like one two in the morning and I just I couldn't go to bed I wanted to finish it and it was i've argued that that is one of the best books on presuppositional apologetics.

01:42:51

That's out there And you don't even realize that that's what he's teaching he doesn't talk about that Yeah, it's a great follow -up.

01:42:58

He has a book called ask them Why where he teaches precept through conversations? And then he walks through precept in this book and gives a spin on it about where our rights come from morality things like that It's all a precept style.

01:43:11

It is just fantastic as you know, mark. Spence is giving us The the link right there, so i'll leave that up.

01:43:18

Thank you mark. Yep. Thank you So And he actually liked the video that I did last week.

01:43:28

I sent a sent a clip to him. I said hey Spencer jay lucas jay jaded I don't know

01:43:35

No Is that because you're promoting his book? Is that? I put his book on it

01:43:40

I just I just did it and I said i'd come back and promote it later. I want to turn it into a 55 minute sermon talk and and actually teach people through this.

01:43:48

I think it's important for us to understand um Having said that I want to go back to something.

01:43:54

Um, we were talking about about this issue of of church abuse being covered up And you know, there's a houston chronicle article that was done three years ago you have to pay to get the article and uh, the guy the reporter lists a number of uh,

01:44:11

Pastors where it's been where they've abused whether it's been covered up or not public. Do you have that on screen?

01:44:17

I don't have that on. Okay. I do have pulled up as a website now We don't know who these people are.

01:44:23

We don't know what their background is or anything, but they have a site called baptist accountability

01:44:29

Because apparently the wife was um abused in her church growing up and so They thought there was no accountability out there and and they put up a site themselves

01:44:40

And and this is where you know as we have talked this entire show Anthony moore is on this list

01:44:49

Anthony moore. I don't know when they put him on this list But it seems like it's it was done very very recently

01:44:56

So the the website is called baptist accountability .org And he's on this list the

01:45:04

You see that he is, uh, there's two articles that are quoted in here on a summary so somebody more than likely has just Submitted it to this website very recently

01:45:17

And uh and has put him on the list now Here's what's interesting is not only does this list have the guys who did the abuse where it's verified or somewhat verified

01:45:29

Because they have different lists on here um convicted not convicted whatnot, but They have his list and and then you can connect him to other people

01:45:40

And guess who's he's who he's connected to on this site thomas and jason lee

01:45:47

But not is matt chandler is no nobody else

01:45:53

Is is connected to this now, of course, I found the spot on this site where it says you can submit an entry

01:46:01

So guess what? I did before the show tonight Is I submitted an entry for matt chandler and I connected the youtube video and uh, and and hopefully they look at that because Down here.

01:46:13

You should submit matt chandler for Uh, dr. Moore, you should submit matt chandler for uh, tom tom

01:46:22

Uh, let me look at what his name was again. Yeah um for tom Uh, you should do it for karen hinkley hinkley

01:46:32

I mean you you did and I I you know the reality I didn't do a lot of digging to find these others

01:46:39

That's the sad thing. Yeah, if we do a lot of digging what else might we find with matt chandler?

01:46:44

Are there other ways that he had other times where he has because look the reality there may be other men he'd let go

01:46:52

That he did even less speaking of Maybe he said it like in this one guy where the guy was being accused of of sexually assaulting 11 year old and he's saying

01:47:02

He was drunk I mean You know Yeah, maybe he was drunk also but You know you you needed to mention the other one because the other ones needed to protect our children from a guy like that Okay, this is the problem with guys like this when when they when you do not when you have churches

01:47:23

That do not practice first timothy 520 and again I'll read it as for those who persist speaking of pastors

01:47:30

Those are the pastors as those who persist in sin rebuke them in the presence of all

01:47:36

So that the rest may stand in fear and when you have pastors or churches that do not practice first timothy 520 what they typically end up doing is pass them that person on to the next church

01:47:49

And let it be someone else's problem. I don't have to deal with it Well, you know what like you you were saying earlier anthony if there was any cases

01:47:56

And as far as we know there are no cases at cedarville with anthony moore with any students faculty or anything but if there were

01:48:05

That's on matt chandler and village church They should have handled it biblically. They should have handled it right not take the easy way out and pass it on for others

01:48:14

That's the issue And this is where they failed in their responsibility And like vincent's saying in the chat here in private chat

01:48:22

That's as bad as the roman catholics moving a priest from around. This is a little different because what?

01:48:29

Unfortunately with the catholic church they take more blame because they actually Moved the guy around and put that guy in another church here.

01:48:37

What you have happening is because Matt chandler and village church chose not to say

01:48:44

What the real issues were in multiple occasions those people can move on If if someone had if if someone says hey, yeah,

01:48:52

I got fired because because I had an issue with drinking But I haven't had a drink for 10 years now a church could hire him they might even hire him as a youth pastor

01:49:03

Not knowing he has sexually assaulted an 11 year old and still has that desire In this case saying well he did something he with an

01:49:13

You know subordinate, uh, you know, he did or I think the way they worded it. It was something with video

01:49:19

That was with another person, but there was no contact there was no physical contact contact contact

01:49:25

Yeah, you could be thinking that he's he's trying to get an a fellow Staff member to watch porn with him.

01:49:31

I mean, that's what I when I was reading it That's what I was assuming it must be that would be the most logical conclusion you can make

01:49:38

Based on the wording of that. Yeah, absolutely You would never imagine that it is a video camera stuck in a shower while somebody's showering like That would never pop in your mind and so these people who are saying well

01:49:51

Dr. Moore was allowed to be a basketball coach Assistant coach not a coach He was not allowed in the locker rooms alone

01:50:01

But he wasn't allowed with any students Alone he wasn't allowed in in any place with with in you know, uh

01:50:12

You know to be he had to be in public. So so what you end up seeing is they had rules for him and he seemed to be living up to it because What they thought was going on and what was actually had happened are two totally different things.

01:50:25

So they're counseling him for the wrong thing And he may be he's going along but he wasn't being honest soon as dr

01:50:33

White ended up finding out the false story Then he ended up finding out who the victim was and going to the victim and getting the victim's side of it and finding

01:50:41

Out that that dr. Moore lied to him. He was immediately fired. And then what did dr

01:50:46

White do he he made it as as did as much as he could to make it public that He was now what was he fired for in this case?

01:50:57

He was fired for something that happened at village church The village church didn't make public

01:51:04

That he found out about and that he had been lied to about it so Where's dr.

01:51:11

White doing? Well, yes, is he can you say he's pushing the blame back onto village church? Well in a sense he is because they didn't make it public which they had a responsibility to do

01:51:23

And so You could argue that he doesn't have a right to To make it public, but here's the thing.

01:51:33

I find so interesting if I if these blog articles i've read are correct Matt chandler village church the victim

01:51:43

They all seem to be wanting to blame thomas white for hiring him

01:51:49

Oh, he he must have known he he knew supposedly You know the thing that I find interesting with that is that they weren't willing the victim wasn't willing to Uh, even though he moved on and is now over at nine marks at uh, mark devers church there as an intern

01:52:11

But as from what I understand, which is kind of interesting that the blogger knows where the victim is now

01:52:17

But no one knows the name of the victim. Hmm It's kind of an interesting thing. So, how do you know he's over with mark ever just curiosity?

01:52:25

but You know what what I think is that You you have guys that it's much easier

01:52:35

To go after thomas white who they they might not know To go after them to go after Then rather than to be outed in your own church where you know people

01:52:50

They might you know, okay. We we don't know anyone at cedarville. Yeah, we're gonna blame cedarville for hiring the guy But the victim, you know what you he had a responsibility to protect other victims then as well

01:53:02

Here's the interesting too. I mean it seems like there's an implication from matt chandler

01:53:07

And village church that it's like well, we told thomas we told thomas white right?

01:53:13

We we let him know his stuff three years ago. So here's here's my question If they knew this three years ago

01:53:20

Okay, let's say let's say that they're horrified today That cedarville hired him on and has had him on staff

01:53:29

And they informed cedarville of the truth three years ago Why now why didn't the village church come out six months after they hired him and said hey guys public just so you know

01:53:41

This guy, you know can't tell you the grievous sin, but he never should have been hired in cedarville We told him exactly what happened

01:53:47

Why was that not out six months ago a year ago year and a half ago two years ago? Like why now and like that's where this whole thing just doesn't seem right

01:53:57

Coming from the village church side If the blogger who broke the story

01:54:04

Maybe Knew something and because because what it's and this is what I said to you

01:54:09

Earlier this week is it sure seems like matt chandler is using this You're using cedarville to get the story out

01:54:18

And to do cover. Hey, we told him But it's exactly like you said if they if that was the case if they felt so strongly about it

01:54:27

They would have told thomas white do not hire him We cannot you know what?

01:54:34

I know of a situation with a pastor who sinned And what did he do? He he immediately found another church

01:54:40

He was going to leave from one church and just rush right off to another church Okay And and just move on And some people found out about it that he was he was going to be hired and they went to the church and said

01:54:54

No, we can't recommend this guy at this time now I do want to bring up something that was said in that in what matt chandler said in that video

01:55:04

He said it was a grievous sin. Yes, but we can't he's not qualified at this time

01:55:11

Which means even village church was acknowledging That there could be reconciliation on this

01:55:19

Now would they make it sound like oh no We said he he shouldn't be fit from any ministry at least according to what the blog some bloggers are saying

01:55:26

So it sure seems like the bloggers are giving cover to matt chandler who's saying they're just they're taking what he's saying verbatim

01:55:33

But questioning everything thomas white is saying When matt chandler is the one with the history of not practicing matthew, uh, first timothy 520

01:55:44

He's the one that has the history of Of just disciplining the victim and having to apologize for it you know

01:55:55

This is the thing that you end up seeing here The matt chandler is the one that has the history of saying in september

01:56:02

That there was someone that was being investigated for sexual assault of of at a of a child

01:56:08

But in october, he says oh he was drunk Okay, so he isn't being clear.

01:56:15

So so whose word should we believe? It's really this simple It's really this simple. There is some one thing that I see that's a one -to -one analogy

01:56:24

And that is tone Because tone what matt chandler supposedly claimed is he was fired for That tone was fired for for drinking for repetitively drinking

01:56:38

Not for allegations of sexual assault to a minor So if this is the case you now see what you know, he's done this once He's done it again with with dr.

01:56:52

Moore he didn't say exactly what it was to the church So you have two different cases

01:56:58

Where you have a lot more that went on that they didn't make clear So are we to believe that he really made it clear to thomas white that this guy was really wrong and You know, there was all this, you know history they gave him and said you can't hire him and thomas white just Ignored village church and and matt chandler and hired him.

01:57:22

Anyway now that may be The difference is if I look at the facts that we have

01:57:28

So far, I have to say matt chandler at a minimum no matter what happened with cedarville matt chandler and village church

01:57:36

Needs to step down And for this blogger who wants to say that thomas white needs to step down but not mention matt chandler

01:57:44

I think it's because he's a social justice warrior Okay, it's completely biased.

01:57:49

It's completely biased because matt chandler Passed the buck. He didn't follow scripture.

01:57:55

He didn't Do as first timothy says he did not rebuke him in the presence of all

01:58:04

And as I said earlier in the show that word rebuke there is an imperative that's a command

01:58:11

God is commanding this to be the behavior you have with pastors Yeah, and you know what?

01:58:17

I I can't we can't stress enough that matt chandler in this video That he did a week to two weeks after the allegation in 2017.

01:58:27

He said We believe that he is unfit for ministry at this time just like you just said at this time that softens

01:58:36

What he seems to be backtracking on now Because I don't think he would say at this time based on the allegations that he's claiming right now

01:58:46

What he that says he told thomas white. Okay, so saying at this time it softens it it allows for for restoration

01:58:54

Okay, and a job back, right? Being able to get a job in the future leading everything for thomas white to think that there's there's some possibility there

01:59:03

So he what does he do? He sets up strict counseling and and process of reconciliation.

01:59:08

It's going to take at least five years He did all his homework. There's no police report

01:59:14

Why because matt chandler didn't do what is his responsibility as a mandatory reporter in texas and report the crime?

01:59:22

He didn't do that so He they want to blame thomas white but no one wants to blame matt chandler

01:59:30

This is the problem matt chandler failed He he sinned

01:59:36

By not twice now twice. He did not For those who persist in sin rebuke them in the presence of all

01:59:45

And that failure is costing cedarville and everyone wants to go after cedarville They're not going after chandler and village church

01:59:54

And I would say that if anyone who signed the petition to have thomas white resign

02:00:00

You better start a petition to have matt chandler and village church resign as well Otherwise, you're a hypocrite because they sinned as well, but their sin is what caused this one at a minimum

02:00:12

Because even if let's let's take worst case scenario say they did tell thomas all the information

02:00:19

Okay If matt chandler was public about it Thomas white would never been able to even if you sit there and say well, we told him but he hired against our our instruction

02:00:33

Okay, let's assume that happened. Would they be able to hire him? If matt chandler made this public the answer's no if all this if if you're if the argument is that that somehow thomas white was trying to help a friend because this is the argument that thomas white was trying to help a friend and Get him a job.

02:00:52

And so he was lying to his board of trustees and lying to the faculty and everything else if that's the case

02:00:59

Had matt chandler done his job Everyone would have known it and and thomas white wouldn't have been able to lie about it if they if he did

02:01:07

That they're claiming right? So it's very simple. There's there's one place to start this blame

02:01:14

There's one place where we know there was failure. How do we know it? We heard it tonight in his own words

02:01:20

Matt chandler read the statement that he and the pastors of village church put to forth to be read and it didn't

02:01:28

Rebuke him in the presence of all It was watered down mild gave opportunities for reconciliation

02:01:38

And they let him go Being that they that they have that pattern.

02:01:43

I think they are to blame I think that what we end up seeing here is that Someone should start to petition for matt chandler to resign and and those at at village church that also

02:01:57

Didn't follow matthew 5 20. So why do I keep saying matthew? I've done it consistently.

02:02:05

I I don't know why it is First timothy, I think I know what it is. I'm preaching this week in in in mark chapter 2 where levi or matthew

02:02:14

Uh comes to be a disciple of christ, so I guess matthew i've been studying a lot of matthew

02:02:20

This this week, so I guess Matthew 18 as well. I mean it could be but that's not why

02:02:26

I think so, um, what we end up seeing is is that matt chandler

02:02:32

Did not practice first timothy 5 20 And he let a sexual predator

02:02:40

Move out to another area Now it wasn't ministry.

02:02:45

Oh, this is one thing. I did want to show. Let me show one more thing That I think is important with this blogger because I want to show you what his tactics are

02:02:54

Okay Because when you read these blog articles, I want you to know You need to put critical thinking when you read these things now what you have here is a list of of faculty

02:03:06

Okay Okay New faculty from 2017 2018

02:03:12

And so if you go through this list Dr. Moore was hired 2017 and you go through this list.

02:03:18

What do you notice and this guy says it? If you've noticed that anthony moore is not pictured you are a sharp observer

02:03:27

Does anyone other than me wonder if omitting more is just a coincidence? I'm sure there is a perfectly valid reason

02:03:36

Or maybe not Here's the simple reason, you know why he's not listed with the faculty in 2017

02:03:44

Is this like a million dollar question, yeah go for it. What's the answer? Uh, maybe because he wasn't a faculty member

02:03:52

That's right Hired as faculty. He was hired as an administrator

02:03:59

He was in the admissions office for now This is the irony the social justice warriors should be defending more you'd think he's an african -american who is hired in admissions to to help with diversity

02:04:14

He was someone who was sexually abused as a child, I mean, let's see how many intersectionality points does he have anthony african -american

02:04:22

That's one sexually abused That's two diversity Uh is his is his specialty?

02:04:30

Sexual tendency, right? Huh, homosexual tendency.

02:04:35

Oh ding ding ding. Okay, four points Intersectionality points. He he has homosexual tendencies

02:04:41

But as you've as you as you've heard me teach in Intersectionality you have one factor that brings you right back down to zero and that's if you're a bible -believing christian and hopefully

02:04:54

We've made our point. Well, at least steve wolf here Not that he's a wolf that's just his last name.

02:05:00

I mean, I guess white, you know these guys with these names I mean see rapaport you can't use, you know, or silvestro

02:05:06

You can't kind of make that but but steve wolf says I agree chandler village Is ultimately to blame in every bit of this and of course anthony moore

02:05:17

And he's right anthony moore should not have Lied If that's what he ended, but he had at a minimum would have been

02:05:26

You know lying to to jason lee unless there he must be in on it, too Right keeping it from all the faculty

02:05:35

The this is the thing so I I really I this is not something that anthony I wanted to do

02:05:41

But I I think that maybe I had a little bit of a righteous indignation Because of the fact that I I saw everyone piling on with one guys

02:05:50

One guy who broke this story writes 10 articles about it You you i've already shown you that he he probably he seems to have a bias as well

02:05:59

He's had this issue with cedarville for a long time From from when white got there and people started leaving because they were liberals

02:06:08

That's why they were leaving they weren't conservative christians. They were liberal christians So they were leaving this guy had an had an issue with that.

02:06:15

He seemed to to have this he Breaks the story everyone's using his articles and he writes several articles

02:06:23

That all that does is it gets you a lot of clicks it's clickbait But what do you see what you don't see as as we've seen he claims to have evidence

02:06:32

Doesn't give you the evidence over and over again. He he uses logical fallacies. He leads he poisons the well

02:06:38

He he's he's leading you in in conclusions And so over and over again, he's appealing to things that prove that his arguments are invalid

02:06:49

Okay And so this blogger should not be trusted as a source

02:06:57

You know who should be trusted as a source the independent investigation That cedarville trust the the trustees of cedarville hired

02:07:05

To do the investigation. That's who we should start to trust and they haven't ruled yet. They're still investigating

02:07:11

So anyone who's signing the petitions to remove thomas white it's way too soon

02:07:17

You don't have the information the only information you have is the guy who started the this stuff

02:07:24

Who's writing all this stuff? Who's a social justice warrior probably as far as we can tell

02:07:31

And who quite frankly is lying to his readers Why uh, because there's a very simple reason there's nothing nefarious on why

02:07:42

Anthony moore was not pictured with the faculty in 2000 2017 Anyone should be able to pick up on that as anthony did because he wasn't faculty

02:07:54

They're not listing the janitors in there either they're not listing any other of the administration there either

02:08:00

I wonder I didn't do this, but I just thought of this now. I wonder if we go back and see Did they announced faculty or advisors?

02:08:10

Or not advisors, uh administration new new administration I wonder if he's listed under new administration.

02:08:16

That would be really interesting because if that's the case Then we know that this guy didn't do his homework But the simple thing is this and this is all this this this whole show is to point out two things really

02:08:28

Well a couple things maybe more than two one You're dr. White as far as we know, we trust him to be innocent until proven guilty

02:08:36

We we assume that he is right He's kept a consistent story He's had integrity and for those reasons we take his story, especially with the fact

02:08:47

That it's all hinged on the fact that the claim is that he knew everything From the the pastors at from matt chandler and the pastors at village church when they have a history of softening things

02:08:59

They have a history of getting things wrong We've just demonstrated that as well and You know what the irony some of those things we demonstrated are from the same guy's blogs

02:09:12

Some of the information I got from things he said and I went and followed the links So he should have known better He should have known the background was there

02:09:23

So here's the thing You should assume until proven. Otherwise that thomas white is in the right

02:09:31

You should not be signing petitions to have him removed you should be signing petitions. However to remove matt chandler and village church

02:09:38

You should be blaming them if you're blaming thomas white and not matt chandler and village church, then there's only one word for that hypocrite

02:09:47

Because they're the ones who failed And caused the problems for cedarville

02:09:53

So cedarville now has to deal with matt chandler's failure to do his biblical responsibility

02:10:00

So this is a thing a couple things that we were trying to express one thomas white's

02:10:07

We want to assume is in the right until proven. Otherwise matt chandler needs to repent Of his handling of dr.

02:10:14

Moore a tomb and these others Anyone else that he may have fired or let go and not rebuke them

02:10:23

If you're if you have pastors who are doing this If you're in a church keep them accountable that they should be doing this

02:10:30

They should be saying exactly why someone is stepping down And what the issues are?

02:10:38

Okay So as a way of closing out i'll just put this steve wolf says this has been great and highly informative

02:10:45

But unfortunately, I have to run hope to see you all next week wolf out Well, we're signing out as well

02:10:52

Um again may 30th We want to remind you Justin peters and I will be doing our snatch them by the flame snatch them from the flames

02:11:01

Seminar, but it's home edition. You can watch it in your own home It will be free of charge no cost though we will accept donations if you want to and but we will be uh

02:11:14

Doing this may 30th. We're going to start 10 eastern time Seven pacific and we're going to go up until six o 'clock eastern time three pacific

02:11:25

So we have a full day schedule for you. We have four sessions again Justin will start off with Dealing with the sufficiency of scripture.

02:11:34

I will take over with interpreting scripture We'll take a lunch break. Justin will do a longer session on discerning false teachers

02:11:41

Then I will do a longer session going through the book of jude in identifying false teachers and then we'll have a q a

02:11:48

So it'll be a good time of teaching this is something that is for any christian that wants to know god's word

02:11:57

How to handle it And how to use it to discern truth from error.

02:12:02

I hope you'll be there. Hopefully anthony will be doing a seminar Not that i'm putting him on the spot

02:12:11

We'll have a date soon for anthony's Seminar on creation science from a presuppositional view

02:12:20

So we're hoping that he'll have a seminar. Maybe he and I'll do it together. Maybe it'll be just him.

02:12:27

We'll see But he's got enough material on his own But uh, hopefully he'll be getting that out soon

02:12:33

So we'll be looking forward to that. We might be doing more of these home seminars. We've learned something with this

02:12:40

Covid 19 and the quarantine we can literally I I preached in the philippines.

02:12:45

I'll be preaching in india soon I've preached in washington state all from my home We may be able to do more of these seminars or conferences

02:12:55

Where you can watch it in your home online at your convenience You know because we might be able to do it where you can

02:13:01

Watch it afterwards as well. So, uh, those are some things we're working on here at striving fraternity

02:13:07

Uh, if you'd like us to come into your church when we're allowed Um to do one of our seminars bible interpretation made easy creation science presuppositional apologetics

02:13:17

Uh evangelism any of those topics you can feel free to reach out to us at striving for eternity .org

02:13:24

Uh, and if you'd like to help donate to us to keep these this show and other things you can support us at striving

02:13:30

Fraternity .org Slash donate. Yeah, and there's some I don't remember what it is

02:13:35

But if you give over 20 or 25 You start getting some books go to the website and look it out.