Women Debate At A Rally

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Across the country, women and men speaking out for and against abortion bans. Even here in Arizona, where there is already a law on the books.

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So where does our state stand on the issue? You're on a boarded baby, my unaborted baby, one of my child that I didn't kill.

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Abortion doesn't have something in common with the Taliban. They agree with you. They agree with you.

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OK, so my name's Desi. I go to. Thank you. I go to Apologia Church. What's your name?

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I'm Sierra. I'm Sophie. Elier, Emma. OK, and what brings you ladies here today?

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We are fighting for to keep Planned Parenthood as well as to and for and the bans and the bans.

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What kind of bans? The bans on abortion. OK, so you think that abortion should be any legal, legal for what?

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And safe. OK, for do you believe in any restrictions or do you believe that a baby, you know, somebody should be able to have an abortion up to before the baby is born?

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I do believe that because there are so like no one's going to carry a baby for nine months and then say, you know what?

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Never mind. And what happens? It really does happen. I don't believe that. I think and I think, you know, it does people that do need the abortions then have a very good reason and their life could be in danger and the baby would be in danger and it would just not be a good experience.

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And I think that that's a good idea. Did you know that the surgeon general said that there's absolutely no reason to kill the baby when it comes to the life of the mother?

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So say that the mother's life was at risk. What they do is they deliver the baby. They don't have to kill the baby.

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Killing the baby doesn't do anything. I mean, the woman may need to deliver the baby.

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There may be preeclampsia. There may be complications. But did you know that the surgeon general said that in zero cases that is the child?

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Hold on. Let me talk. The surgeon general. Will you give a name? Yeah, we can look it up right now. I don't know his name right now, but we can.

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My my baby has my phone. Otherwise, I would give it to you right now. But we can look it up and and you can see for yourself.

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So what would you say to that? I mean, instead of killing the baby and I really think that's what

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I'm talking about. I'm talking about when there are obvious complications with the baby and it would just be a very bad experience for a mother to give birth to it.

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OK, so you're saying if the baby has some sort of special needs, not that because special needs is

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I'm talking about like very like on like rare complications, deformities.

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I think what she's trying to say is that if you ban abortion for everybody, you risk banning abortion for people who desperately actually need it.

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Because we none of none of us look at abortion like, oh, I just want to like, I don't want a kid anymore. I want to live the rest of my life.

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Like no one has sex thinking they're going to have like going to need an abortion. That's always the last decision for a woman.

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We're fighting. Plus, like no one should have to make that choice except for the woman. Yeah. Have you guys ever been outside of an abortion clinic?

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Yeah, it is very scary having people like you guys yell at us and tell us we're murderers and that we're going to hell and that we are ruining lives like it is very taxing on us.

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It is not easy to go have an abortion. You know, we we don't have sex with the intent to have children.

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And I know that you guys believe premarital sex is a sin, but not everybody believes that.

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And I know you love God so much. And that's great. Religion for some people is so great. Religion for my mom. Amazing.

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Helped her so much. Religion for me has only hurt me so much. And that is what needs to be understood.

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Religion is not for everybody. So if this is too personal, you don't have to answer, but it sounds like you've had an abortion.

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There's a movement that's saying shout your abortion. Are you for that? Have you had an abortion? I have not.

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Have you? But I know I have a friend who has. And I know it's it is difficult.

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It was not an easy decision. And not only that, especially if you get pregnant outside of marriage, just the attack and the pain and the desperation you feel from people in religion, because it's like a master or sorry.

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Wrong word. It's like the most. It's like a cardinal sin to have a child outside of marriage for some people.

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And like, you know, Jesus was born out of wedlock. Yes. But the members of churches do not act like that's

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OK for women today. So it was immaculate conception. It was not. You know, it was God. He was born of a virgin.

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So so let me just ask this. So you're saying that it's you think people that stand outside the abortion clinics, it's wrong.

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We've been out there. And what do you say to like nine out of ten women that we talk to out there say,

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I know that it's a baby. I want to kill the baby anyway. I'm going to have sex again.

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And if I get pregnant, I promise you, I'm going to kill that child. What do you think about that? I think that said out of anger, because again, as I approach our abortion clinics with my friends and you guys are throwing hate at us, we want to say things to infuriate you.

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I don't genuinely think that on our women's minds, it's like kill the baby, kill the fetus. Like, it's not actually that we say these things to make you guys upset because we are genuinely scared and hurt that you guys would treat us like that.

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So so you're saying that what so what are you classifying as hateful when people say don't murder the baby?

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You think that is that hateful to you? I just think it's so wrong for you guys to call us murderers because so I saw

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I and that we're going to help because I saw the sign. We will adopt your baby. Right. Which is so great.

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Which is amazing. Some people change their minds and don't get abortions because they know their baby will get adopted.

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But that doesn't go for everybody because not everybody wants to adopt. Somebody else's baby, you know, not everybody has the fun.

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It is so the process is so. I know my husband and I have been trying to adopt for years and it's very expensive.

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Yeah. But right. But but there are thousands, you know, there are thousands of families waiting to adopt.

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And do you know how many children have been saved outside of abortion clinics? We can show. Wait, I let you talk.

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So that was our agreement. We can't interrupt. OK, so there's literally literally thousands like we've lost count through the

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Ministry of End Abortion now all across actually the world. It's international. It's not just here in the US.

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But because people stood up and said, please don't kill your child. Please let us adopt your child.

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Let us give you resources that would help you during your pregnancy and after that, there are literally thousands of people walking on this earth because Christians said, no, please don't do this.

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So what would you say to all of those children that are alive now? Would you say you should be dead? No, but I do have another counter argument.

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What are you guys doing for the children that are already in the foster care system because people chose not to get abortions and adopt instead?

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Because I my family has dealt with the foster care system. It is messy. It is hard. It is demeaning.

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It is like it is so difficult for children. Children go into foster care system like, OK, and they come out worse.

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And that's what this sign, because as it's a lot, I know.

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I know. I'll read it. You're pro life until the baby is Mexican, black, female, gay, Muslim, transgender, poor, sick, uneducated, disabled or refugee.

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OK, so I'll go ahead and explain and then I'll have my turn. Perfect. Thank you. So the thing with this is there could be millions of kids going into the foster care system and they're not getting adopted for this reason, for one of these reasons.

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Right. Which is very true. We've seen as the LGBT community has become more apparent and more open with sexuality and things like that.

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We have seen laws preventing them from adopting children. We've seen like the hate that goes towards children who are

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LGBTQ. We've seen refugee children, babies being snatched from families and put into,

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I think, detainment or being detained. And we have all these kids who are currently alive and struggling, who are not getting help.

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And so I genuinely believe, while I know you guys are so passionate about this, that I think you should help the kids who are alive and the kids who need that help because they're being unfed.

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They're being forgotten about. They're being abused. Like the foster care system needs to be reformed.

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There are steps you have to take to, in your eyes, fight the bigger battle.

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And I like I know you think what you're doing is right. And I think what I'm doing is right. And there's no way we can connect if we're both betting, butting heads all the time.

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But sometimes you have to take smaller steps to reform systems before you fix the giant monster.

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And I want to make one more point. Planned Parenthood, because it has access to sex education, which

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Arizona does not teach sex education whatsoever. It teaches about periods and male ejaculation.

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And that's it. So I grew up not knowing anything. I believe that. I mean, I believe that just speaking of some of the people here, they didn't have like a basic understanding of the difference between sperm and a fertilized egg.

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So they were saying things like, oh, so any man that, you know, ejaculates, then that's that you need to go after them.

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And I'm just astounded like you don't understand the difference between a sperm and a fertilized egg.

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I mean, that's just basic biology. So I believe that that there's a lack of like basic biological science being taught here.

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And it's the same. I'm from California. Anyways, I'll let you finish your thing. Thank you. I think such a sex education should be taught everywhere in the country because it is so important.

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Now, Planned Parenthood provides sex education. It provides STI testing.

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It provides birth control. It provides necessary contraceptives.

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It provides things that lower the risk. It prevents unplanned pregnancies.

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And in turn, that will lower abortion rates. Just believe me when I say this. I've done my research in other countries where they and other states and in other states where they have high.

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I'm sorry, I'm getting my mouth is where they're where they're teaching just knowing about bodies and how babies are created.

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Simply lowers unplanned pregnancy rates, which lowers abortion. So if you guys really

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I genuinely think if you guys want to end abortion, you have to be.

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You have to be for Planned Parenthood because they're helping people who get contraception, don't know anything.

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And it's not like you walk into an abortion clinic and they're like, all right, sit her down. Let me grab the scissors. You know, you have you've given me a lot.

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You've given me a lot to answer. So is it OK if you like we stop because I'm like trying to mentally take no. No, that's

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OK. I wanted to. That's that's good. It shows that, you know, you're made in the image of God. I actually respect the fact that you're out here.

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I respect the fact that you are coming out here because you're saying I want to stand up for in your mind, what you're saying is justice.

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Right. And we respect that. That shows that you're made in the image of God. You're not an animal. You're not an animal.

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You're not an animal. You're not an animal. You're made in the image of God. God, did you know before the foundations of the earth,

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God knew that you were going to come into this earth, that he was going to create you and you and you are any of you identifying as Christians?

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OK, just just curious. OK. Oh, interesting. Right. OK, well, that's a whole nother subject we can go into.

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I would also like to say that I agree with you that the foster care system and the adoption system needs to be reformed.

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My husband and I and my family, we've been through it. We started in California trying to adopt.

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There's so many so much red tape and hoops. It's for a private adoption. It's anywhere from 30 to 50000 to adopt a child.

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But you can have an abortion for six hundred dollars. So there's something wrong there when it's so hard to adopt.

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And yet abortion is so easy and so accessible and legal. And so we would say, you know, you're we're respectful that we respect the fact that you're out here trying to advocate.

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But what I would want to do is challenge you to look. And let me just give you a disclaimer. I was pro -choice almost my entire adult life.

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I've only been a Christian for about nine years. I've only been pro -choice for about or pro -life for about eight years.

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So I just would like to say everything that's coming out of your mouth has coming out of my mouth. I don't come here with any righteousness of my own, saying that I'm better than you or I'm more knowledgeable than you.

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I was standing on your side. I was saying the exact same things as you're saying. So but it wasn't until someone cared enough about me to share the gospel.

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So if you don't mind, if I could just share the gospel with you, it'd be two minutes and then we'll go and I'll I'll answer more of your questions.

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As I let you talk to you, let me tell you that was part of our conversation. That was part of our agreement. As sweet as that is, we have all had very negative, awful experiences.

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Well, no, I understand. I experiences with religion. So I like I adore and admire that you love

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God so much. That is an amazing trait. It'll be 30 seconds.

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30 seconds. OK, let me just tell you, because I've had people say I've never heard of the actual gospel and I didn't hear the actual gospel till I was like 27 years old.

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I didn't understand that God is holy. And what that means is that he's separate from us.

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We are not holy. We've all we're not holy where we sin, right? Have you ever lied? That's just proof that you have sinned.

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Your nature is sin. God's nature is that he's holy, right? And because of that holiness, he's separate, separate from us.

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He came down as Jesus Christ, fully man, fully God. He lived a perfect, sinless life that you and I, we cannot live.

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He was crucified. He bore the wrath of those who believe for his chosen, for his elect.

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And he rose again on the third day, proving who he was. And now the call is to repent. That means to change your mind and turn to Christ.

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And and that's the gospel. That's the gospel summed up and that we can be reconciled, that his kingdom is here now, that we're called to be reconciled here with him now and that we are eternal creatures.

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We're going to go on forever. You know that God, that Jesus was God in the flesh and he has come to reconcile us to himself for those who believe.

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And so it wasn't until then. I just had to tell you that because in telling you where I'm coming from it, it wasn't until God gave me a new heart and opened my eyes that I was able to see these things and they were able to make sense.

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I was pregnant around the same time. I always believed that a baby in the womb wasn't a baby until, you know,

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I wasn't saying up until birth, until it was breathing. Even I was like, well, probably, you know, three months or something when you can kind of looks like a baby.

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But my son, who's eight years old, he at his like nine week appointment,

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I could see him bouncing around. And I had this just fierce love for him at such a young age.

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Like I would have protected him with my life. You know, I would have chose his life over mine.

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He was unique. He had his own DNA, his own fingerprints. And I watched him grow through the whole nine months.

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And I watched a movie called 180 movie dot com. If you haven't watched it, it's awesome. It's like 30 minutes. It's really it's one of those ones that really makes you think.

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So if you have time to for 30 minutes, I would really suggest watching it. So it wasn't until then that I was like, you know what,

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I'm wrong. I need to repent because I was always saying, you know, your body, your choice.

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I had friends that straight up told me to my face while they were pregnant. If this child has a disability,

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I'm going to kill it. I'm going to have an abortion. And what did I say? That's your choice. I I wouldn't do it, but that's your choice because you're going to be the one raising a kid with special needs.

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I didn't realize what I you know, in as you play that out, you say, what was I saying that if your child is going to have special needs that the baby should die?

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That's not that's not right there. I know so many people that are disabled or have special needs and they're lovely people.

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They bring color to this world. I don't think disabled people should be killed. I doubt you guys think disabled people should be killed.

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You seem like compassionate. I wouldn't imagine that you would see somebody, say, with Down syndrome walking by and you'd be like, that guy should die.

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Would you? No. OK, I think that it's not that we're killing them, it's that we're saving them from the pain.

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So you're saying it's more merciful to kill the baby than to killing the baby. It's saving the baby.

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So saving them from what? From the pain of being. Yeah, from being disabled, being pained.

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But that's what you're saying, then, is like that disabled people can't have any type of good life. That's not what

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I'm saying. No, that was a miscommunication. OK, we're saying just in general, like, oh,

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I'm sorry. In general, like think of women who are.

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Don't have the financials to take care of a baby and are forced to have that baby, like. Or even give birth in a hospital.

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Yeah, that's thousands of dollars. Oh, I know. We know it's very expensive. Yeah. By taking abortions away, you guys are forcing these awful conditions onto a child because you wanted to have a life.

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But you said yourself you had a hard life, right? You said your upbringing was hard. Is that right? It wasn't.

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No, not not. Our religious experiences were hard. In the LDS church.

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OK. I have not had a hard life. I was very lucky, but I know people who have had awful, terrible, shitty lives.

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Are they your friends? Just like, do you have friends that have had horrible life that you're talking about?

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Cousins who grew up in foster care and then were adopted. And it was really hard for my aunts to raise them.

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Do you think that they should be dead? No, but I think that's I think every day.

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I think I think you're saying you were saying that it's just answering. And then I'll come to you.

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It's just hard to, you know. So you said you're saving them from a horrible life. I think that's.

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So you could say you just got to carry that out to its logical conclusion is. So I'm saying that if somebody is born.

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So you're saying you're saying if they're born and they're disabled or maybe in the foster system, that it's better for them to be dead.

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Let me answer for her. I think what we're trying to say is every child that is born should have the right to a good life.

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And if you cannot provide a good life for a child, why would you make? So the child should die if you can't.

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Why would you force them? No, no, I'm trying. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth in sentences.

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I'm trying to help you see. I'm trying to help you see where your thought is going to be carried out to.

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I'm trying to help you see the logical conclusion. And like I said, you're not ma 'am, ma 'am.

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You're not in the interview. I'm interviewing these. OK. Every child that is born should have a right to a good life.

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If a mother cannot provide that, why would she want to cause that pain on a child?

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OK, so just imagine an allergy, imagine some crazy thing happens.

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You know, you and your husband can't take care of your kids anymore. What's going to happen to them?

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Are you going to send them into foster care? Well, to be let up to you. So personal experience, there was an instance where my family almost got split up before I was a legal adult.

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And my siblings and I almost got split up into the foster care system where it would have been so hard to find them.

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Right. So I'm just trying to follow your line of thinking. So you don't think that you should have died, right?

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Or your siblings had that had happened. If my parents were very smart, they did not have children until they knew they could provide for us.

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And sometimes there are instances where people do get pregnant. It's unplanned. And they recognize

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I cannot take care of this child. And it's possible not to do so. They're responsible enough to take the.

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They're they're responsible enough to. Notice that. OK, but but and what does that mean?

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They're responsible enough to kill the child, to have it, to have an abortion, to have an abortion.

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OK, what is it? What does that mean to you? Because you seem to be offended. To to remove the body, the cells, the cells.

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So when do you believe that that life starts? When they're born, when they're when they're actually nine months gestation.

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What about what about eight? Always born. I know. But what about what about eight months?

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I don't know. Do you know that after 18 days, the heart beats?

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Did you know the same as brain activity? They have actually have brain activity. There are people with no brain activity who are.

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There are people hooked up to. I don't know what they're called, but in the state, vegetable state who don't have brain activity, but have continuous heartbeats that people will spend thousands of dollars on to keep alive, but end up dying, never coming out of that vegetable state.

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So. Like, what do you do? Do you continue to pay thousands of dollars to keep a numb of practically dead person alive just because they have a heartbeat?

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Or do you recognize that they're not going to get better? They're not going to come out of this state.

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And do you pull the plug? Which is hard, which is not an easy thing to say.

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Right. You know, abortion is easy either. No, abortion is not easy. They just do it that fast.

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It's not easy for you. You have to recognize how emotionally, physically, mentally taxing an abortion is.

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It is not a willy nilly thing. It it. And I hear you.

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People do say really fucked up. I mean, OK, fucked up things when they walk into abortions. But that is a reaction because of hateful posters that say we're murderers and things.

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You know, we want to fight fire with fire because we don't want to be controlled. OK. And it's just I don't think you guys understand how hard it is that option.

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I personally have friends, dear friends that have had abortions. I do. I actually know two women personally that were sterilized from it.

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They one of them had an abortion when she was 17 years old, just said I wasn't ready, went in and they perforated her uterus.

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And she was never able to have biological children, which is very sad. And and and the same.

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There's an older couple that I know that comes out. And same thing. They just weren't ready to have kids. They were married, just not ready yet.

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And the abortionist perforated her uterus as well. And so she wasn't able to have children after that.

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And so I understand what you're saying. Abortion is hard. We believe that we would agree with you that abortion hurts women.

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Abortion hurts children. And so I understand that you guys don't believe that life begins in conception.

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So that's where that's where we kind of go like this, because I'm saying kill. And that's where you guys go, no, not kill because it's not alive.

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So that's that's that's where we're disagreeing is where when life begins. OK, that's where we have to find a common ground.

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And that common ground, as we talked about earlier, is making planned parenthood and sex education available to everyone all the time because it has statistically shown it lowers the rate of unplanned pregnancies.

24:21

OK, so let me just ask you this question. This is just a challenge. I'm not trying to make you guys mad.

24:26

I'm not trying to offend you. I just want to challenge you. So if there was a women's clinic or a women's home that took in maybe women that were battered, homeless, just in really tough spots, there there are shelters like that.

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Women's shelter. OK, so what if you found out they helped women get jobs?

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They fed the women. They even maybe took care of their kids. They helped kind of restore them and get them back on their feet.

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But three percent of the time they sold them into sex slavery. What would you say about that shelter?

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Why are you spending your time here protesting and not your time protesting that?

25:09

No, no. But but you didn't answer my question. What would you say about that? You can't don't skip over. So just respectfully.

25:15

OK, so if you found out there was a shelter that took care of women and they a theoretical shelter, three percent of the women who go into shelters and three percent of this.

25:25

OK, so the so the shelter took it, they would give them food, they would give them shelter, they would help them with jobs.

25:34

That was the that was the majority of their business. OK, but three percent of their business was to sell these women into sex slavery.

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What would you say to somebody that said, hey, you got to you got to let me I've been respectful to you.

25:51

OK, so what would you say to somebody that said, you know what? Don't don't bag on that that shelter because they do a lot of good.

25:58

There's so much good they do. That's not good, though. That's just evil masking itself.

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That's right. But sex slavery is nowhere near abortion. It's still talking about it.

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And don't call it that because that's very disrespectful to women who have been through it. I we would condemn sex slavery, but this is we're talking about murder.

26:20

So what Planned Parenthood does is every once in a while they'll offer some contraceptives. They don't do mammograms.

26:26

They don't offer any prenatal care. But they do kill children. And it's a lot more than that three percent number.

26:31

That's a that's a fabricated number. They don't offer mammograms and they don't. There is not one in the country that I know of that offers a mammogram.

26:39

There might be one in Florida. And I think then I think you should do research on that. Yeah. So you absolutely know before you say, yeah, yeah.

26:45

Yes, I want you. I know people who've been to Planned Parenthood who have had mammograms. Are you sure? I am.

26:51

No, I think I think. Well, let's just both agree to do the research about the mammograms, OK? But even so, even if they gave mammograms, they're still killing children.

27:00

That's the majority of their business is to kill children. And so we are like they promote that.

27:06

Yeah, they guys in health care. They say it's care no matter what.

27:12

So they say it's care no matter what. Right. So but the majority of Planned Parenthood's business is abortion.

27:19

That's a fact. What's that? Your unaborted baby.

27:24

My unaborted baby. Wants. Yeah, I know. My child that I didn't kill. Yes, you're right. Thank you. Thank you.

27:31

I know I'm right here. Thank you, ma 'am. So that's that's why we're here. I was just going.

27:37

Right. She is. So do you think I should have been able to kill her? Hey, Zach, can you take over so I can get her real quick?

27:44

OK, let me just let me just say thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming.

27:49

I appreciate it. Will you guys just do me a favor and watch that 180 movie? It's 30 minutes. It's not going to.

27:54

What would it hurt you? I'm it's not going to hurt you. So just it's 180 movie dot com. You can go to Apology Studios dot com and see this if it goes up.

28:02

Can I say one more thing? Will you and all of your viewers really, really contemplate reforming the foster care system and sex education taught in the

28:13

US and focus on that and how it can help in the movement to lower abortion rates before attacking abortion centers?

28:22

Well, we stand on the word of God and we believe that we shouldn't have sex before marriage and that that that that marriage is sacred between a man and a woman.

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And that when you follow that, when you follow God and his law, that you're not going to murder, you're not going to have sex outside of marriage.

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So that's going to prevent abortion. And also one thing I would say to that, because we get that a lot.

28:44

I mean, almost every single time we come out, somebody says, you know, how many kids have you adopted? What are you doing about the foster care system?

28:51

And what I would say is this. Do you care about homeless people? I do. I do a lot. How many homeless people do you have living with you?

28:57

They come and go. I have two or I've had three over 20, like the year of 2018 last year.

29:03

What if somebody said you can't be advocating for homeless rights unless you house every single homeless person there is in this city?

29:10

Well, I would say, give me the resources to do that. It's not possible to do that. It's not possible for us to take in every single child.

29:17

But there are there. Exactly. There's a possible to lower the rates.

29:23

And that is the best thing to do instead of just banning abortion. And what

29:30

Planned Parenthood, because it seems like the easiest, quickest thing to do, you're just making it unsafe for women who are going to continue to have abortions.

29:37

What would you say to people during the times of slavery that wasn't that long ago that said, you know, you want to make slavery illegal, but all you're going to do, people are still going to own slaves, which it's true.

29:48

Obviously, there's slavery right now going there's human trafficking, but it's illegal. And so there's less of it.

29:54

Do you see the things people are trying to do to prevent that? Because people are taking steps. It's always about steps moving forward.

30:02

Think of it. Think of it this way. Think of it this way. When you sin, you can't just pray to God and be forgiven, right?

30:07

There is a repentance process. You have to recognize what you've done wrong. You have to apologize to yourself, to God and to the person you hurt.

30:16

Correct. There is a process there. Yeah, you're fine. There is a process and there are steps to the repentance process.

30:24

OK, right. Just hold that. Yeah, of course. So there are steps that you need to take.

30:30

There are steps that you need to take as well to lower abortion rates and to fix abortion.

30:37

Abortion rates are so much lower in other countries and in other states because they have provided the need, the necessary needs to do that.

30:46

And that is what I believe. Thank you so much for your time. OK, just one last question before you leave, because we just get.

30:52

You want to say hi? So when do you believe? And it might be all different for the four of you.

30:59

And we hear different things. When do you believe that life starts? You said when the baby's actually born over there.

31:05

I don't know right now, but I know

31:14

I don't have. I don't know. You don't know. I think that life starts. Oh, you're stepping on her phone.

31:20

Oh, that's OK. Thank you. I believe that life starts when there's brain activity.

31:26

OK, so about six weeks. That's about six weeks. OK, how about you?

31:32

When do you believe life begins? I'm not sure. OK, what if what if this building behind us, what if there is there was a fire and there might be people inside of it and the firefighter said, well, we don't know if there's people inside of it or not.

31:48

Should we go in and try to save them? But it's a known fact that people are inside. No, it's unknown. What if it's unknown?

31:54

We don't know. Yeah. Then you can search it out and look for. Yeah, that's what we did. Like you search out for heartbeats and brain activity.

32:00

Right. Yeah. But so I just want to step. So we're going to get to what

32:07

I just want. I just want to understand better what you think an abortion is. If it's not a life, why does it need to be killed?

32:15

Like what what in your mind? What what is it that's happening? Do you if somebody has cancer, do you try to remove it before it takes over?

32:24

Yes. Yes. Can cancer be life threatening? Of course.

32:29

Can cancer be debilitating? Of course. So why wouldn't you want to move it? I'm sorry.

32:35

Why would you want to remove it? Why would I not want to remove the cancer? Well, unless it was like around a vital organ or something where it would kill you to remove it.

32:46

So I'm not following. The only thing I'm following is that you're equating a baby to cancer. That's what you're you're doing.

32:55

So even that she's a blessing. So, OK, I know you guys got to go. I got to go, too. But just I want you to think about what you're advocating.

33:03

OK, and I appreciate your time and I thank you for it. OK, thank you for the thank you for the civil conversation. Can you say bye bye?